Database Info

question about helping Microsoft.....

why does most here hates the feedback option in Windows Mobile? don't you think it would help them to release a better version next time, or improve what they released already?

lennie said:
why does most here hates the feedback option in Windows Mobile? don't you think it would help them to release a better version next time, or improve what they released already?
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Most people here don't want Big Brother to know what they are doing. Now, I'm not one to wear a tin foil hat but..
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I do enjoy my Privacy.

lennie said:
why does most here hates the feedback option in Windows Mobile? don't you think it would help them to release a better version next time, or improve what they released already?
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Click to collapse
If microsoft actually paid attention to the feedback it recieves, do you think sites like this would exist?
They create a ****ty product, and then replace it with yet another ****ty product making you think all along the new ****ty product will be better than the last ****ty product, but all along you still have a ****ty product, and good old billy gates is wiping his ass with YOUR money.
P.s. FU*K Microsoft, and thank you xda-developers.com

KD8DNS said:
If microsoft actually paid attention to the feedback it recieves, do you think sites like this would exist?
They create a ****ty product, and then replace it with yet another ****ty product making you think all along the new ****ty product will be better than the last ****ty product, but all along you still have a ****ty product, and good old billy gates is wiping his ass with YOUR money.
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Click to collapse
i agree if msft gave a crap about us end users than windows wouldn't have all the probs it does. the create bad software so they can make u pay for upgrade .. kinda like htc screwing us with the viedo drivers.

i agree...
as another example of microsofts competence... look at Vista...
a bloated piece of junk that is nice to look at but not to use.
KD8DNS said:
If microsoft actually paid attention to the feedback it recieves, do you think sites like this would exist?
They create a ****ty product, and then replace it with yet another ****ty product making you think all along the new ****ty product will be better than the last ****ty product, but all along you still have a ****ty product, and good old billy gates is wiping his ass with YOUR money.
P.s. FU*K Microsoft, and thank you xda-developers.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

JimmyMcGee said:
Most people here don't want Big Brother to know what they are doing. Now, I'm not one to wear a tin foil hat but..
I do enjoy my Privacy.
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Click to collapse
but they're not intrusive on your privacy though, I mean, we all want them to release something good, so why don't help them to do so?
and its quite funny that you should mention privacy, but I bet your search engine of choice is google.com

KD8DNS said:
If microsoft actually paid attention to the feedback it recieves, do you think sites like this would exist?
They create a ****ty product, and then replace it with yet another ****ty product making you think all along the new ****ty product will be better than the last ****ty product, but all along you still have a ****ty product, and good old billy gates is wiping his ass with YOUR money.
P.s. FU*K Microsoft, and thank you xda-developers.com
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Click to collapse
wow thats some strong words....but then I lift my eyes up a little and look at your aviator and see an iphone with a windows logo in it ....guess you don't hate Microsoft all that much and the truth is their OS is not that bad.
and they are a software company they must make money right? if you own a company you don't expect to make money??
I don't believe its ****ty product still I think it could be a bit better though
I'm just saying we could all chip in to get a better product don't you think?

thesire said:
i agree if msft gave a crap about us end users than windows wouldn't have all the probs it does. the create bad software so they can make u pay for upgrade .. kinda like htc screwing us with the viedo drivers.
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Click to collapse
yeah HTC did screw us over sideways though...but I don't see it as the same thing though..

Just like good ol' HTC!!!!
thesire said:
i agree if msft gave a crap about us end users than windows wouldn't have all the probs it does. the create bad software so they can make u pay for upgrade .. kinda like htc screwing us with the viedo drivers.
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Click to collapse
Wow, I'm supprised that it took 4 posts to get HTC involved as an example for a MS Feedback thread!!!

tseten said:
i agree...
as another example of microsofts competence... look at Vista...
a bloated piece of junk that is nice to look at but not to use.
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Click to collapse
aww man, why you gotta bring in the vista thing? personally I use vista ultimate and love it to me its way better than XP and not too bad to look at either

lennie said:
wow thats some strong words....but then I lift my eyes up a little and look at your aviator and see an iphone with a windows logo in it ....guess you don't hate Microsoft all that much and the truth is their OS is not that bad.
and they are a software company they must make money right? if you own a company you don't expect to make money??
I don't believe its ****ty product still I think it could be a bit better though
I'm just saying we could all chip in to get a better product don't you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iphone with win logo on it--The Jungian Theory, representing the "duality of man"
And i have no problem with a company making money (thats what there in business for) But i do have a problem with repetitive negative customer satisfaction.
Oh yea, and if people like vista so much why this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hate+vista+go+back+to+xp&btnG=Google+Search
and did you see lasts months cover of pc mag

KD8DNS said:
Iphone with win logo on it--The Jungian Theory, representing the "duality of man"
And i have no problem with a company making money (thats what there in business for) But i do have a problem with repetitive negative customer satisfaction.
Oh yea, and if people like vista so much why this http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hate+vista+go+back+to+xp&btnG=Google+Search
and did you see lasts months cover of pc mag
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Click to collapse
come on man, be serious, vista is actually a better product that xp is, since you're the one who wants to prove your point with google (the fox in sheep's clothing) take a look at these links:
the first is a google search with "I hate xp", take a note of how much page response (almost 4 million)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=I+hate+xp&btnG=Search
now take a look at this link from google, "I hate vista" and see how much page response there is
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=I+hate+vista&btnG=Search
does that prove anything? I think you can answer that.
turns out what most people hate about vista is the UAC
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorial...87-aecfc8013411/poll-what-i-hate-most-ab.aspx
its not a solid poll but it does say something. UAC is quite easy to turn off, my first 10 minutes with the OS I saw where it was but chose to keep it on
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...n-US:official&hs=81p&q=I+hate+mac&btnG=Search
lol, just had to check out who hates the macs lol. it turns out almost as much as vista

Yes, Its the Internet you will find people who Love Bacon, and the same amount of people who hate Bacon. It's how the internet works my friend.

lennie said:
come on man, be serious, vista is actually a better product that xp is, since you're the one who wants to prove your point with google (the fox in sheep's clothing) take a look at these links:
the first is a google search with "I hate xp", take a note of how much page response (almost 4 million)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=I+hate+xp&btnG=Search
now take a look at this link from google, "I hate vista" and see how much page response there is
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=I+hate+vista&btnG=Search
does that prove anything? I think you can answer that.
turns out what most people hate about vista is the UAC
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorial...87-aecfc8013411/poll-what-i-hate-most-ab.aspx
its not a solid poll but it does say something. UAC is quite easy to turn off, my first 10 minutes with the OS I saw where it was but chose to keep it on
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...n-US:official&hs=81p&q=I+hate+mac&btnG=Search
lol, just had to check out who hates the macs lol. it turns out almost as much as vista
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can post all the reasons in the world why you and others like vista, fact of the matter is, EVERYTIME I have given in and decided to use windows, It's like MS has the freaking mickey mouse club doing the beta testng. The only stable version I have ever used is 98se.
OHHH YEAAA and as far as using a mac, well there simple to shut down, all you have to is use a application, and them BOOM shut down
I do however like Flight Sim X. It seems to work.

KD8DNS said:
You can post all the reasons in the world why you and others like vista, fact of the matter is, EVERYTIME I have given in and decided to use windows, It's like MS has the freaking mickey mouse club doing the beta testng. The only stable version I have ever used is 98se.
OHHH YEAAA and as far as using a mac, well there simple to shut down, all you have to is use a application, and them BOOM shut down
I do however like Flight Sim X. It seems to work.
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Click to collapse
hahahaha, I like your sense of humour man, its rich. but we strayed off topic wasn't here to talk about vista, just the mobile side of things.
ok what about "error reporting"? does anyone have that enabled?

lennie said:
hahahaha, I like your sense of humour man, its rich. but we strayed off topic wasn't here to talk about vista, just the mobile side of things.
ok what about "error reporting"? does anyone have that enabled?
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No, as i stated before i dont believe they actually pay attention to it.

KD8DNS said:
No, as i stated before i dont believe they actually pay attention to it.
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Click to collapse
The technical department doesn't, but maybe the marketing Department does?

JimmyMcGee said:
Yes, Its the Internet you will find people who Love Bacon, and the same amount of people who hate Bacon. It's how the internet works my friend.
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Click to collapse
well really, I think its how "people" works; not all like the same thing, some just wants to be "different" even if they like bacon
check this, I and some of my other friends have X360s and about 2 have ps3s now 1 of our friend wants to buy a console he opted to buy a wii or ps2 he actually bought ps2....what da hell? I asked him why the ps2 he said "cause I want to be different", I said way to go dude good for you. lol, when he comes over no one gives him a controller.

KD8DNS said:
No, as i stated before i dont believe they actually pay attention to it.
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Click to collapse
but how would you know if you've never send any in? the options are not even set on enable by default. so now the question is how do you know they don't pay attention/ want to pay attention? it seems only a small amount of the user base is sending feedback/reporting errors and stuff so then they have to go with what "they thinks" users wants. that's a problem for you and I cause they don't know what we really want and it will take them ages to fix problems we're having if enough don't give feedback. for any company customer feedback is essential, don't you think?

JimmyMcGee said:
The technical department doesn't, but maybe the marketing Department does?
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Click to collapse
they do have a cunning marketing department though, love those win2k8 robot commercials they caused me to go give it a test drive. I have to say I was blown away by the speed!! those commercials told no lie...it's fast, it's fast, it's really fast even with aero enabled. I honestly don't think they were made from the same code base, maybe the same kernel with tweaks up the wazoo and nothing in common above that except the user interface again with tweaks like a filled pinata. I've been thinking of using it as my main os, but what's holding me back from doing so is that the desktop experience cannot stream to the X360 with windows media player 11 like vista can. maybe I can run vista in a VM using the built in visor and stream from there...hmmm not a bad idea.
yeah yeah, I digressed.

Touch: HD ~ $180, Pro ~ $120, Diamond ~ $108

*Mods please feel more than free to move this where you think might be more appropriate. I just wanted to make sure everyone at least had a chance to look at it and know about it, and knew that mostly only people who already had Diamonds would be in the Diamond forum.
*There is a link in my sig a post over at ppcgeeks. I will be keeping that one updated and current much more often. This is kind of just a general thing to look at, but that is where I will be keeping things updated and such simply because thats where I posted it first.*
PLEASE REFER TO THE POST OVER AT PPCGEEKS INSTEAD OF THIS ONE (link in my sig). IT IS MUCH MORE UP TO DATE AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE AS SUCH. Feel free to post here if you perhaps dont have a membership at ppcgeeks (tho I would highly recommend becoming a member there if you are not). I am just leaving this one here for kicks.
"Ok, so this is my little post about how I am able to get phones for real cheap. It is not a lame scam or anything stupid like that. I hope that you can look at my name, how many times I have been thanked and where, and my little green reputation squares etc, and perhaps the posts that I have made in order to trust this a little better for your benefit. Vogue users should find this easier as they know a little more about me.
The moral of the story is:
I have discovered a really interesting way of obtaining phones and other like things (and I think this MAY be how a lot of people on eBay always have them so cheap, but I don't really know).
The prices I have quoted in the title are rough estimates. The cost could swing either way probably about $69. Hopefully, my prediction that these prices are a little on the high side is correct.
As time goes on, these (like anything else) will become cheaper. This also applies (I think, still researching) to my deal here. So if the Diamond soon drops $100 in price, it will also do so accordingly here (again, this concept I am still researching but should know for sure within a few days).
I am currently not sure how to handle all requests and..."orders" I guess you would put it. I don't think the forum system is really going to be that efficient, neither the PM system. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
Real problem: you are all going to think "this is too good to be true". And very understandably. I'm not sure how to get you folks to take a rational logical approach to this and think it through rather than shying away with the "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is", which, undoutbedly, some of you already have done :S. If I throw all the details at you right now, I really don't think youre going to believe it. I am trying to write this right now so that I would read on and be curious at the very least if it were me. And I am also aware that if I threw all the details out here, I would also not believe it myself.
The concept is affiliate marketing and referrals. If anyone reads this and knows what I am talking about, plz vouch for me or something. The odds are little to none of the people reading this will, but I figured it couldn't hurt to put down.
I know 100% that I can get ahold of all European (GSM) versions of each of these phones (which could of course unlocking them would be the idea), and I can start doing that now. Obviously I will not be getting ahold of a US CDMA HD soon as it will probably be a very long time till its made that way if ever (
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).
The CDMA US Diamond, on the other hand, I believe that I can get probably within a few weeks.
The CDMA US Pro, probably about two months (judging from the 10/19 release date, if it turns out to be 11/2 it will be accordingly later).
I MAY be able to get the CDMA US Diamond and Pro now just as with the GSM versions, but that is another issue that I am still currently researching. I will update this post accordingly with new information (hopefully I should know this specific piece within a few days).
I'm really not too sure what else to say. Please no flaming, I'm not trying to scam anybody or anything and yes it is for real. If you are going to be close/narrow minded and get pissed that I am claiming this and not even consider it, please do not post and move on over this thread as if you had never read it
If you think there might be a chance of truth here, shoot me a PM as that is the way that I will currently be handling this until I figure out a better system. Email will work more than fine as well, in fact that may be even better.
I know that this here will scare some people away, but it is part of the deal so I guess I had better just say it: To do this will cost you somewhere in between $5-$6, depending on tax. At 6.35%, that is about $5.31. This is not a cost I am charging and will receive, though the ~ $5.50 (lets say $5.50 to be pessimistic) may be able to be negotiated down.
If you have never heard of Netflix, or Blockbuster Online, please research them before contacting me or posting here.
Oh! Jeez I guess I had better add that this is not illegal.
Also, this can be done in Canada, the US, or the UK.
I was more than skeptical about this at first too, but am now a believer.
You are not buying the phones from me, so don't mistake me trying to give back to the community more as a chance to scam you all; I am not the one making the $$ here.
Ok so now I really can't think of anything else that needs to be said. Here goes posting this beast for the first time (probably gonna end up beating my flashing how to for vogue op in length!), hopefully no one goes getting crazy.
As I said previously, I'll update as I go (I'm sure I'll think of something in 10 min lol).
It is real, k? Its not free, its not a scam, and you are required to do a little bit of work. I will say that it is easy, and it does work.
lemme know,
Jim."

i sent you an pm...

hmmm very interesting!

jim256 said:
$5-$6, depending on tax. At 6.35%, that is about $5.31. This is not a cost I am charging and will receive, though the ~ $5.50 (lets say $5.50 to be pessimistic) may be able to be negotiated down.
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Click to collapse
That is interesting. Not to be a retard or anything, but where does this money go? So if I read the whole article right, you're charging $5.50 to us so we can get the method of how to get these phones for cheap right?

PM You. lets see how fast things are gonna move.

Kraize92 said:
That is interesting. Not to be a retard or anything, but where does this money go? So if I read the whole article right, you're charging $5.50 to us so we can get the method of how to get these phones for cheap right?
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Click to collapse
No, sorry if i wasnt clear enough. Please refer to the post over at ppcgeeks as it is more up to date and such. But the ~$5.50 does NOT go to me. It is (obviously) pretty complex. But I am not the recipient of the $5.50 (as you will see). (altho that would be nice )

Black93300ZX said:
...so instead of doing that we're supposed to blindly invest in something because we trust him?...
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Click to collapse
lol NO. it surprises me that even here on xda and ppcgeeks how few ppl can actually read. you DO NOT PAY ME. YOU NEVER WILL. get it everyone? lol...jeez. answering questions is fine, but answering the same one 100x/day is a little lame.
Black93300ZX said:
...when the first successful purchase comes through I'm game, but until then I need details.
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Click to collapse
i like that, thats the attitude. just be patient, and then after a few people have vouched for it, contact me and lemme know!

I'm in. Sent you an email.

pyramid or "ponzi" scheme
If anything that has happened in the US has showed if it sounds too good to be true it probably isnt

Yea def man, I need to see a video. With actors that say they are not actors. Also these actors must say "this product works" "Im Giussepe Franco I dont own the company! I don't own anything about it!"

see.. i dunno, this sounds like some **** like AMWAY or a Pyramind scheme like the other member said.
$180 for a phone that is retailed at $900+ at the moment..
i dunno meng..and yea im a member over at ppcgeeks and the members over there are calling shannigans as well..
i need proof and substantial proof at that!

It's called MLM (multi-level marketing)... slightly different than a pyramid scheme but most people get screwed all the same. Put it this way... the first several people who paid the $5 (not the first people here at XDA, the first people who got on board with this particular program) will probably end up getting a phone for that price. Most will not.
Sorry Jim, you seem like a decent guy, and I hate to see YOU get screwed too. MLM is older than the day is long, and each "program" fizzles out long before MOST of the contributors get the product that they contributed for.
Stay away from this guys. You too Jim.

Black93300ZX said:
I'm not saying we pay you, but we have to pay SOMEONE, and that's what I don't trust... Money leaving my possession without full details on where and why it's going there.
I'm a full out skeptic, but I'm not about to accuse you of running a scam until I hear bad things about it, so as I said, once a reputable member (not a user with 3 posts) posts on here that they got their Touch HD for $200, I'll be on that right away. I hope for everyone's sake this is true, as it'd turn out to be great... And if it is, thank you in advance for helping us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alrighty, now that is a much better approach. just to get this out there (and I suppose I had better update the OP on ppcgeeks as well), you dont ever pay out any money before you know whats going on. its not like you pay 6 then figure out what the heck is going on

4. be sure to become familiar with netflix and blockbuster [online].
Bah, hoops!

jim256 said:
If you have never heard of Netflix, or Blockbuster Online, please research them before contacting me or posting here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why must we know that? How about you PM me with the details. I'd love to read the few very long posts.

I had a email from a very nice lady in Nigeria whose poor husband had been killed, he was a general in the army and very rich and all I had to do was give her my bank details so she could deposit his $10,000,000 into my account so she could gain access to it. All I had to do was let her have my secret password
and send her some money and for my help I got 10% for doing it.
Really its true, my balance has gone to zero but she said this is normal and my $1,000,000 should be in my account any day now.
So i dont need to join this scheme as I have plenty of money to by a Touch HD at full price but I am sure it will work just as well as my Nigerian deal has

TECH BLOGS AGHAST! Google Discontinues Nexus One. Cluetrain: NO PHONE SUPPORT!

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OPINION PIECE / by quicksite
Tech Blogs: Slow Down, Get Your Acts Together, Focus on Reporting, You Can't Even Remember Your Own Stories from 7 Months Ago
Read Write Web is one of my favorite tech blogs. To me it has some of the finest writing and reporting around.
They are unlike my favorite battering targets: engadget, gizmodo and the like -- the advertising-driven slimeballs who have stakouts all over the world ready to beat someone else by half a day to breathlessly report on the latest new gadget "Seen in the wild"..
"Whaddaya got, whaddaya got, whaddaya got? You got any phones here, whaddya got fa' me?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can see them frantically poking the back alleys and drunk people in case they have a secret demo phone on them. SCORE 1 for the new iphone! Score 2 for going to JAIL!
Fine. They do a decent job overall, to me, generally, they are just like Hollywood tabloid journals, just instead of it being focused on Kristen Stewart the actress from TWILIGHT, it's the latest sexy phone from HTC. Same thing. Ohhh, let's undress it.... WE WERE FIRST!
Read Write Web is NOT in that category -- they do real tech industry reporting.
So, imagine my shock seeing this story today:
Google to Discontinue Nexus One
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_to_discontinue_nexus_one.php
The CONTENT itself is not shocking at all. The distribution method Google stuck with so stubbornly, despite being told repeatedly they needed to do things like offer phone support, have working demo models of the N1 at the Carrier Stores that sell plans linked to that phone (like T-Mobile USA) -- was seriosuly flawed, thus NO SHOCK. Makes perfect sense. The shock is: That someone would be shocked that the Nexus One did not sell through the roof.
That's what this Post is about.
I actually saw it through my twitter stream, with this shorter note from @rww
How did the Nexus One came #2 on our poll for Best of the Web 2010, yet Google couldn't sell it? Explain, people! http://bit.ly/9oQysT
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I decided to answer him, in my typical way-too-wordy way --- and by adding this preface here at XDA, it's even wordier. How bout that.
My answer is in the next post, which I posted to the twitter-companion "twitlonger.com" -- as though made in heaven for me.

NOTE: After I got my HTC Desire, I started using twitter for first time, and used the name XDAdesire. Another XDA-er in the DESIRE forum here has helped me try to post some relevant stuff about the Desire... but it's spotty, some days stuff, some days, nothing. http://twitter.com/XDAdesire
This response located at: http://tl.gd/2k1l1a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My response to RWW's STORY: http://bit.ly/9oQysT
Explain! **ARE YOU SERIOUS? No theories even necessary.
The only problem here, I think, is SHORT MEMORIES -- i.e., people (you, unfortunately, and I say unfortunately because I am astounded...
The quality of writing and analysis at RWW is generally second to none... thus I am shocked at how there is such a disconnect here with something so unmysterious and so measurable) cannot even remember events and circumstance a mere 7 months ago in twitter culture where assembly line constancy of data-pushing is all that seems to count.
Remembering? Context? Connecting dots from probably stories RWW themselves published back in Jan 2010? I guess that's off the plate now.
** I will bet $1000 that RWW has a story on the answer to this elementary question** The arrogance of Google's refusal to supply PHONE SUPPORT TO CONSUMERS... which directly translates to a reluctance to put money into something that won't be supported by live human beings.
#2... even worse. Did you know -- or can you not remember -- TO THIS DAY, a customers cannot SEE OR FEEL OR TRY a nexus one in his or her hand before shelling out $550 for phone. And you're surprised at lackluster sales?
Do you remember WHY customers can't do this -- and how ABSURD the reason is for this?
Here let me help you:
Google went exclusive with T-Mobile USA, the carrier who launched Android and the G1. I was about the import the Hero from UK since T-Mobile USA wouldn't carry it (dumb), when all of sudden in January is the announcement they will carry the Nexus One on its network.
I raced over to my T-Mobile store to see it. Here's what they told me:
"We don't have any"
I said: "Oh yeah, I guess it's too soon. When are you getting them in?"
"That's just it. We WON'T be getting them in. They will only be sold online by Google. And we are just the network."
Me: "Right, I understand that. I didn't mean the phone to BUY from you, I knew about buying it online. I meant the store demo phones to just feel how it feels. I'm especially interested in how the soft keys work, vs the Hero's hard keys"
Tmo: "No, we mean the stores won't be getting any to Demo"
Me: "You gotta be kidding me?"
Tmo: "No.. We think it's stupid too, but (sarcastic) 'whaddawe know? we're just the sales guys'. We've been checking with corporate all day long. People have been flooding in here asking the same question wanting to see the phone. They say we won't be getting any."
Me: "Of all the stupidest things in the world. I'd love to find out whose decision that was. Google's or Tmobile's, but as dumb as Tmobile can be, they DO know how to sell phones, so I am going to guess Google. They probably figured, know-it-all-engineers that they are "why should we spend money to ship a perfectly good phone to 1000 T-mobile retail stores across USA when we can sell those phones online?"
COmpletely missing the point that unlike people who do 100% of their shopping online based on 5-star reviews and collaborative filtering, people who get out into the sunshine actually like to touch merchandise that costs $500, and feel how it functions in their hands, especially a phone/PDA/ touchscreen which has all sorts of ergonomic peculiarities specific to different people.
So --- STRIKE #1 -- Wow, I wonder why they didn't sell so many phones despite their being TOP-RATED, can anyone figure this out? Yes. Had they put these phones in T-Mobile stores, they would theoretically COULD have outsold the iphone4 -- but that's a theorectical. In reality no, since they do not understand human beings like Apple does, and thus do not understand human marketing.
STRIKE #2 --- no PHONE SUPPORT, tied directly to HUBRIS (see also Steve Jobs, or "We Know Best" under wikipedia)
I live in San Francisco is neighborhood filled with tech workers, many of whom work for Google. Every day they gather at one of the neighborhood's cafe's and during the mornings, at several intervals, a huge bus arrives, the kind you travel in luxury through Europe on, tinted windows everywhere, climate controlled, wifi. Earbuds come out of laptops as bus approaches and get replugged into N1 phones as they file onto the bus for the 30 minute drive to Mountain View. There are people from the Google Maps team, Google Earth team, Android Team, and even, i discovered one day, someone from Google corporate PR. Generally very nice people when you stop and talk.
In this same neighborhood there are other tech folks like Craig of that list. And so you never know who you might talk to if they have their earplugs out.
WHY ARROGANCE? ANDROID WAS KING OF THE WORLD, or starting to be...
OCTOBER 2009 - The amazing DROID teaser campaign from Motorola and Verizon!
NOV-DEC 2009 - Huge sales of the Droid made Christmas 2009 an amazing success story for Android, Motorola, and Verizon
and those VERIZON 3G ADS were the first sign of the changing world where the teflon coated iPhone, champion this, champion that, was suddenly assaulted, along with its carrier, out of nowhere, for the first time ever putting them on the defensive.
MOTOROLA PUT ITSELF BACK ON THE MAP. so did verizon, who was a late starter in the touchscreen game.
JANUARY 2010 -- No sooner had Christmas closed out... then fresh off the heels of that huge Android success, Google enters the fray strategically following up with ITS OWN smart phone -- having let the droid have its own stage for holidays. Suddenly, weeks after DROID was hailed "the best Android phone yet", it was already being dethroned by what many NOW considered the best yet. NEXUS ONE, Android done right, with best HTC hardware, great processor.
WEEK 1 of this story: GOOGLE WAS PRAISED TO HIGH HEAVEN!
WEEK 2 of this story:
WEAVING BACK THE T-MOBILE STORY:
a Dramatic Turnaround: problems with connectivity, problems with T-mobile customers feeling ripped off at pricing model, "how to use the phone" problems. T-mobile's lines FLOODED, but they kept having to tell customers "we don't know anything about this phone, we cannot service and aupport it, you have to contact Google"... And thus the rapid runaround began. People calling HTC, and refrerred back to Tmobile etc.
The Press in THIS case (NOT NOW, which is my point ---- how can you miss this?) was ON IT: Google, what's up, where is your phone support? ... And the glitter was off. Week 2 stories were about how Google was flubbing this debut, and proving they were a search company who knew nothing about selling electronics.
But google was so arrogant. When asked, they said "sorry, NO phone support." Press said surely you are joking. People wanted phone support and the industry was aghast -- WHAT? no phone support? T-mobile is taking a bath in public anger, and HTC is getting hit up, but what does Google do? Just like JOBS, they say, we will NOT offer phone support.
Industry .. and especially me... (eyes buggin' out) WHAT ??
Google: That's right, you heard us. We will not.
Industry: But all you've given people are byzantine FAQs and web help and email like all the gmail help etc which just angers customers. You can't treat cell phone customers this way. They expect to get someone on the phone. That's the way it works.
Google: Too bad. That's the way it USED to work. We're doing something new here. And you got to break some eggs here to make a souffle. We thnk there are other ways to sell phones, other models. We know we can solve this by being smarter...
--- I DID run into this PR guy from Google's corporate office, in my neigborhood one evening, and i asked him, incredulously, was this true? Were they just going to stonewall this and keep to their plan despite public outcry they are not happy?
(He was really very nice -- and actually one of the few marketing guys at Google. And he reminded me: Google, as you know, is an engineering company, the senior mgmt are all engineers, engineers make all these decisions, they do not think in consumer terms. I accept that and love the company and we do most things really well, but some things are blind spots, and I'll leave it to you to decide in this case)
Me: So they are NOT going to open a phone call center immediately?
Him: I can guarantee you, 100%, that will never happen. They, being engineering minded, will only double down their efforts to make the web-based support solve the problems...
Me: I don't believe this. They are seriously believing their webpage FAQ methodology is "sufficient"? And with smarter keyword detection and algorithms for routing customer entries down more pre-written FAQ's, they will solve user issues in fast responsive ways that make customers happy?
Him: Yes. Well, solve their problems, yes. Make them happy, i'm not so sure.
=========
So THAT's the story -- the PUBLIC REJECTED THIS MODEL.
That's the reason for lackluster sales.
But no, not one tech journal has put 2 and 2 together? My god. You all have regurgitated their press releases as "disappointing sales"....
Before writing your blog entry, did you stop to think: Hmm, what are the factors involved in their SALES CHANNEL that could impact the sales volume?
/[email protected]
/XDAdesire
/htcHUB

So let's overwhelm them with #'s

We need to start an "S3 Unlock " campaign on Verizon's and Samsung's facebook and email to make our dissatisfaction more visible. Will this have any impact, I don't know, but it's something easily done with almost no effort that the general consumer and non-development community will easily see.
This has worked in the past with the HTC EVO 3D. If the community can get HTC, a million dollar company to notice, maybe it will work with a billion dollar company.
Why should we send to Samsung when it's Verizon that locked the bootloader? The reason for it is more then likely Verizon will try to pawn it off on Samsung; by saying they locked it or they have to build the unlock tool. So, before this becomes a “blame game” We don't care who is responsible, we just want “Developmental Equality” for all S3's
So as Bob Marley said: “Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!” and take 3 minutes out of your day to help out the community.
What needs to be done:
Post "S3 Unlock or WE Walk" on Verizon's and Samsung's facebook. This would have a greater impact if it were posted everyday! “Don't let them forget about us!”
Email:
Under subject put: “S3 Unlock Bootloader” and in the body put “S3 Unlock ”
Samsung Contact:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungUSA
Y.K. Kim
president and Chief Executive Officer of Samsung Electronics America
[email protected]
Dale Sohn
President at Samsung Telecommunications America
[email protected]
https://contactus.samsung.com/custo...estionGeneral.jsp?SITE_ID=591&PROD_ID=G303850
Verizon Contact:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Daniel S. Mead
President and CEO
[email protected]
Marni Walden
Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer
[email protected]

I understand what you want to do but alot of this is already being done by alot if angry customers. Verizon doesnt seem to care. All they did was blame Samsung.

Doesn't it make more sense that hitting them with a mass amount of posts and emails would do more than maybe 20 emails a day. It would get more attention if even just 1% of Verizon's customers were to flood them with posts and emails..this would be in the numbers up to 250,000 emails and facebook posts. They could still ignore it, but this would create more negative publicity. This is also why I am asking everyone to flood Samsung as well, eventually hopefully one of them will correct the issue. In time and numbers they will get tired of it and deal with us. Have you sent an email to Verizon or posted on their facebook?

Verizon might not admit that they are wrong, but any company is highly concerned about their public image. Facebook and Twitter can be a valuable tool to fight corporate arrogance.
One more thing to do... everyone should write a review on Verizon's web site slamming the locked bootloader, with a suggestion that this is a great phone on any provider but Verizon. I just clicked on the "Read reviews" link for the 32GB blue S3, and 4 out of the first ten reviews mentioned the locked bootloader.
We might never get them to unlock this particular bootloader, but at a minimum it would make them think twice about the future of locked bootloaders.
Verizon is betting on our apathy, so I applaud anyone who is willing to spend a bit of time keeping the heat on Verizon.

If you're serious about trying to piss them off, create an Anti Samsung Facebook page and / or Twitter Account basically blasting them for ****ty things they do, such as slow updates to products, locked bootloader, etc.
I once complained on Twitter about my GT 10.1 and didn't even direct it to them and I had their twitter person contact me and ask me if there was something they could do to help me.
They don't like knowing people are badmouthing them on social networks.
As for Verizon, they're used to people talking smack on them and don't seem the slightest bit phased.

If you're not part of the solution...you're part of the problem

I mean I guess anything's worth a try...but I don't think Verizon cares.

topmetsfan said:
I mean I guess anything's worth a try...but I don't think Verizon cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They seem to hate me. Emailed the CEO about the bootloader, got the standard letter in the mail about "network security" from some high chair rep. His problem is he said "feel free to call with questions" in the letter, as well as his number. I have called him 5 times in the past 2 weeks, always leaving a message. I have still yet to get a call back. I wont stop til I can voice my opinion and get some answers.

I've been tweeting and posting on their facebook pages that I am unhappy about the locked boot loader and spyware on the phone.
It of course won't do any good, but maybe if other non dev/hacker types see the posts they will inquire or think twice.

dvaderx said:
I've been tweeting and posting on their facebook pages that I am unhappy about the locked boot loader and spyware on the phone.
It of course won't do any good, but maybe if other non dev/hacker types see the posts they will inquire or think twice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But other non dev/hacker types won't understand what a bootloader is and what the difference is between a locked and unlocked.

fluxvalve said:
Verizon might not admit that they are wrong, but any company is highly concerned about their public image. Facebook and Twitter can be a valuable tool to fight corporate arrogance.
One more thing to do... everyone should write a review on Verizon's web site slamming the locked bootloader, with a suggestion that this is a great phone on any provider but Verizon. I just clicked on the "Read reviews" link for the 32GB blue S3, and 4 out of the first ten reviews mentioned the locked bootloader.
We might never get them to unlock this particular bootloader, but at a minimum it would make them think twice about the future of locked bootloaders.
Verizon is betting on our apathy, so I applaud anyone who is willing to spend a bit of time keeping the heat on Verizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why they even try to lock them I don't even get. It just seems like a waste of their time and resources. Just look at the s3, it was basically cracked before release and we already can do just about anything we want on it. It makes them look bad and does nothing and it makes even less sense when they have unlocked phones on their network. Bunch of dummies if you ask me
---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------
ddggttff3 said:
They seem to hate me. Emailed the CEO about the bootloader, got the standard letter in the mail about "network security" from some high chair rep. His problem is he said "feel free to call with questions" in the letter, as well as his number. I have called him 5 times in the past 2 weeks, always leaving a message. I have still yet to get a call back. I wont stop til I can voice my opinion and get some answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you do, If you do, point out they sell unlocked phones on their network and that virtually every phone they sell has been hacked and its just a waste of their time.

piiman said:
Why they even try to lock them I don't even get. It just seems like a waste of their time and resources. Just look at the s3, it was basically cracked before release and we already can do just about anything we want on it. It makes them look bad and does nothing and it makes even less sense when they have unlocked phones on their network. Bunch of dummies if you ask me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If my x2 bootloader wasn't locked down like it is, ii wouldn't have purchased a new phone. Hardware is staying viable for a longer time than they would like, but, by locking down the software used they can obsolete your device long before the hardware is obsolete. Those who are savvy enough to hack it and put what they want on it also upgrade quick to the newest hardware for the wow factor and vzw knows this. Locking the device down prevents people like me from upgrading software easily, thus forcing a hardware upgrade- to achieve my desire for a software upgrade.
It's quite simple really. Phone sales. If any Joe-Schmoe could upgrade their droidx2 to jellybean, they wouldn't see that phone sale. No phone sale = no new 2 year contract.
They don't market the hardware specs at all like they market the OS.
It must be worth it to them to lock it down and hope to see a device sold. Henry Ford said he'd give the cars away for free if he can be the only one to sell the parts. Vzw has aligned themselves closely with this mentality.
Sent from my locked Verizon s3

ancashion said:
If my x2 bootloader wasn't locked down like it is, ii wouldn't have purchased a new phone. Hardware is staying viable for a longer time than they would like, but, by locking down the software used they can obsolete your device long before the hardware is obsolete. Those who are savvy enough to hack it and put what they want on it also upgrade quick to the newest hardware for the wow factor and vzw knows this. Locking the device down prevents people like me from upgrading software easily, thus forcing a hardware upgrade- to achieve my desire for a software upgrade.
It's quite simple really. Phone sales. If any Joe-Schmoe could upgrade their droidx2 to jellybean, they wouldn't see that phone sale. No phone sale = no new 2 year contract.
They don't market the hardware specs at all like they market the OS.
It must be worth it to them to lock it down and hope to see a device sold. Henry Ford said he'd give the cars away for free if he can be the only one to sell the parts. Vzw has aligned themselves closely with this mentality.
Sent from my locked Verizon s3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^^^^^
I have the Verizon Samsung Fascinate that is running Jelly Bean better than some phones out now and this phone only has 384 mb of RAM and has been out for 2 years. Through the efforts of some of the best Devs out there, this phone has lived well longer than it should have (seeing as Samsung/Verizon only supported it up to GB). I've gotten the best battery life at almost 2 days of moderate usage, it's snappy, and still is getting support from the community, because of this I've seen no reason to upgrade other than to have the latest and greatest. A locked boot loader in their mind would prevent this. Keeping hardware, that could last well longer than 2 years, from keeping up with the latest software updates. But with the hard work of the Devs and the community, even with locked bootloaders we can still keep up with the latest (ex. Kexec for VZW GS3). I hope for an unlocked bootloader, but with the great Devs out there I'm not to worried. Waiting for my locked S3 to come in the mail and plan on rooting and customizing it how I want with kexec even with a locked bootloader. I do wish those who have messaged Verizon and Samsung the best of luck. But I won't be holding my breath for them, I'll be holding it for the great Devs and the great community.
CM10 on Fascinate
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Lovely Battery Life
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium

I have a fascinate as well from a while back when my wife had it. I've been strongly considering returning my s3 after I mod the fascinate like you have (since I've never done it before...) and rock it until something worthwhile comes out
Sent from my locked Verizon s3

I'm really hoping you guys get your bootloader unlocked but speaking from experience I don't think it will work. As you can see in my sig I have owned a lot of Moto/VZW phones and people were spamming FB and twitter and starting petitions and it never did anything. But I wish you luck that you can get somewhere with sammy because god knows VZW doesn't give a sh!t about there customers.

Motorola RAZR XT910 gets ICS today

The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.

nick2012 said:
The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's Motorola. They say, "unlocked bootloaders soon," they mean "shut up about unlocked bootloaders." They say, "update in Qx," they mean "update in late Qx or the next quarter after that."
Basically, Google needs to shove its hand up Motorola's butt and turn it into a puppet for it to be respectable in any update or development-related areas.

This things of searching for updates every 4 hours is driving me crazy, i want ICS Now Motorola, did you hear that? You locked us down with the bootloader, at least give us updates more frequently, is that so hard ? Just ask to the developers to work more and stop fooling around in the office.

maxiordoqui said:
This things of searching for updates every 4 hours is driving me crazy, i want ICS Now Motorola, did you hear that? You locked us down with the bootloader, at least give us updates more frequently, is that so hard ? Just ask to the developers to work more and stop fooling around in the office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's my estimation too. Probably Q4 - End of September / beginning of October.

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.

Screw the soak and OTA...bet it wont beat what I got on it now! I wait for no manufacturer or carrier...they can eat it.
Sent From My Delicious Ice Cream Sandwich! Not Your Disgusting Apple Pie!

nick2012 said:
The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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maxiordoqui said:
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to break it to you but September 2012 ain't over yet!

maxiordoqui said:
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to be patient!
Too many people on here are all bent out of shape that they don't have the "official" ICS yet. Heck be glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.
Checking for an update so often is just a waste of time, until we start to hear that others are seeing at least the SOAK, and guess what, that still has not been released to those on the SOAK list.
Again just be patient, it will get here, when it get's here.

jimbridgman said:
You need to be patient!
Too many people on here are all bent out of shape that they don't have the "official" ICS yet. Heck be glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.
Checking for an update so often is just a waste of time, until we start to hear that others are seeing at least the SOAK, and guess what, that still has not been released to those on the SOAK list.
Again just be patient, it will get here, when it get's here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...

nick2012 said:
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, wait for it... wait for it...
You bought the ticket, you take the ride (HST) so therefore, don't go around expecting a mega corporation to listen to your squeaks. You may own a small business, or a semi-large scale one, but regardless, you are nothing more than a speck on the radar of Motorola, nor am I, nor is Jim or any other person here or beyond. That being said, don't expect that just because you had certain expectations that you held prior to, and during your purchase of the ATRIX 2 that you'd get to have your cake and eat it also. Clearly, it ain't so.
Furthermore, companies do this sort of thing all the freaking time, it isn't something new, nor is it unheard of. As they say in the transportation industries, "nothing's certain in the shipping business". Same goes for technology. Software isn't something that is like a shoe, which can be mass produced after testing on a robotic "foot" for a couple of weeks. It has to be fully tested by numerous factorizations both in user capacities and otherwise.
If you feel Motorola owes you a 'timely' delivery of ICS, write them a nice letter. I'm sure it will get opened and read around the time that your letter to Santa Claus arrives to the North Pole. Both are about as useless as the other.
Quit spamming the board with 'who got what when' with a follow-up pouty faced retort about why you have this enormous sense of entitlement to get the update as you see fit.
This ain't the place for that...

nick2012 said:
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I don't even know where to start with how wrong your post is.
I think this is the best comparison.... Say you buy a computer and it comes with windows xp installed and you are told by the store you bought it at that windows 7 is supposed to be out in the 2nd quarter and it is April. Now since it is April are you going to go to that store and whine because Microsoft is "late", or call dell or HP. Guess what there was no promise that windows 7 or 8 is guaranteed to run on your "newish" PC...
I do own my own company and all I provide is services and no products.
If I am late on a project it is not even the same as a company that sells hardware, and gives you the software for... wait for it... free. Even then it is usually 1 upgrade in the smartphone market. Guess what we have had our one upgrade already. Moto owes you nothing. Besides you bought the phone not a copy of android from Motorola/Att. Microsoft NEVER gives you a free upgrade to the next version.
P.S. we are still in the third quarter, and moto is technically not "late" on their delivery, nor have they pushed it back even once, it will still be 3rd quarter, just late 3rd quarter.
Now, grow up and stop posting crap and new threads that have nothing to do with the atrix 2. Or jump in and help dev and get us some great stuff as myself and others have been doing for 10 months now.
Also the ONLY reason I got an sgs3 is because I am a cyanogenmod dev now, and I need a phone that can run official builds. I am still sticking with the atrix 2 and still doing dev work for it.
In other words put up or shut up. By doing what you are doing does not make ics come any faster and it just pisses this community off, because we are not the ones holding it back.

We all need to calm down a bit.. yes nobody is happy with Moto's poicies, the bootloader and all, but as far as ICS is concerned, they have promised us it in Q3 and we are still in middle of it, a whole 45 days to go. One thing that we need to understand is ICS is a big leap from Gingerbread. When ICS was out i thought we can see it on devices in few months, but the fact that CM9 stable is out now, tells us the story.
We made a choice, of choosing A2, instead of many other top dogs of that time. We love the hardware, the capabilities and everything else. Even now when i see the SGS II, the build quality i know i have made the right choice, yeah it aint comforting when i see those guys running plethora of ROMs though.
Bottom line is you made your choice stick to it and wait, wait until Moto gives you ICS.. or start a campaign, better for bootloader unlock though.. that way we dont have to wait this long for updates.
Edit: the most funny part of my post? My signpic
Ps: Apex, calm down a bit mate, you are not going well with these type of posts. Yeah i know most of them are ridiculous but ignoring will be a good idea. And Jim's reputation wont change wee bit with these kind of posts. You guys are rock stars and just keep rocking.
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