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No more custom ROMs on HTC devices: HTC will secure the bootloader for future phones.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/24/htc-locks-down-incredible-s-against-custom-roms-too-starts-a-fi/
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73423/htc-beveiligt-bootloader-nieuwe-android-toestellen.html
Why???
You have just been added next to Sony on my "Don't buy"-list.
Which phone will be the next HD2? LG?
***Update***:
Sony-Ericsson makes a tool to load custom roms onto their devices (http://tweakers.net/nieuws/73521/so...t-custom-roms-op-android-phones-mogelijk.html)
This is good news!

How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?

This was an interesting argument, to me: NOT that the phones aren't still crackable, but rather that HTC is giving into intimidation by Verizon.. and by doing so, it's signaling that they will bow down to carriers, yet even moreso, over end users who BUY THEIR PHONES and are their actual customers.
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You may not agree, but the "rebel" in me likes that argument at least....
When you combine this with HTC America's not honoring warranties, they are not making the best moves given their fractional market share and the massive competition getting stronger and stronger from Motorola and Samsung every day ---- though I love HTC's phones and have never cheated on them once!
But keep in mind HTC *owned* the entire turf of touchscreen devices during the mighty reign of Windows Mobile... Now? Today? They are practically an asterisk. And Motorola? They were gonners. People thought there were out of the game having fallen so far behind after nothing new since the RAZR. Then the new CEO came in, targeted Android as his platform for choice, they targeted the DROID as their re-entry vehicle, and they slammed into the touchscreen market and overtook HTC like a steamroller.
When you are playing on THAT kind of playing field, you're going to go messing with your most loyal customer base -- and kiss ass with a carrier? I think HTC is blundering all over the place -- all the while they continue to make fantastic phones. But fact remains, they cannot afford to even SIGHTLY ANNOY a loyal customer these days. Once someone goes Samsung or Motorola, I don't see a big love affair where they're going to comer back to HTC. So, they better watch it, from where I sit. It's not just as simple a matter as "but we can crack anything". That's missing the point entirely.

Is HTC dual mode? Are they just doing it in the US or all over. That's why I've never liked Verizon. Started years ago over ringtones and BitPim.

What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S, which from the specs on HTC's website, is a GSM phone so if this additional layer of security were a specific demand from VZW, there'd be no reason to add it to the Incredible S.
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.

GnatGoSplat said:
I could be wrong, but I think the more likely answer for increasing security is to reduce warranty claims and support calls from would-be phone hackers accidentally bricking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with this. Go to any Android phone dev section and you see tons of people returning phones for replacement because they goof up flashing it.

I didn't realize this was posted already, I had just posted this in another section, I had said a week ago that it might be the end of an era with HTC locking down their phones, this sucks.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is just pressure from the carriers rather than HTC itself.
Regardless, i am disappoint!

I hope they dont do this, we need customization!

it does suck, theyll be another motorola now, except sense still owns blur lol

No no no no no. :'( this sucks. I love htc and the OPENNESS of android. Why I DIDN'T go with Motorola for an android device.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

we need to apeal to htc to please not do this!!

GnatGoSplat said:
What gives that person the impression that Verizon had anything to do with it? They're using the same security in the Incredible S...
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
Even if HTC were to start locking the bootloader at the behest of one particular network (and frankly, I find the notion that any one network would have enough clout to try and impose such measures questionable, to say the least), there'd be no reason for HTC to do this to all their handsets.
This is a decision HTC have made themselves.
GnatGoSplat said:
I doubt increasing security will hurt HTC sales at all. I'm thinking the majority of HTC phone users do NOT root their phones or hack them. Sure, XDA members do, but the average Joe? I don't think so. The percentage of people who buy HTC just because it's hackable is probably a pretty miniscule amount compared to the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also true - XDA may be big but it doesn't compare to the number of phones being sold.
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.

man i hope somebody talks some sense into them

This is bonkers what are they doing this for?

GnatGoSplat said:
How much more secured is this than the traditional S-ON/S-OFF? I guess I don't really understand to what extent this new security changes over the old.
Also, it's already cracked on the Thunderbolt so likey can be repeated on the Incredible S. If it's crackable, isn't that all that matters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I don't know for sure, but when you hook up you phone to your computer and flash it, your computer and phone will communicate with each other, and the computer will tell the phone what the new rom will be. Now, the people here at xda only have to figure out how to tell the phone what the new rom is.
But with this new security, not only do will we have to figure out how to tell it, we also have to answer the phones question to the computer, what the password is to flash it. This password is only known to HTC.

Step666 said:
Heck, there are more than 3 times as many Galaxy S handsets have been sold as XDA-devs' entire membership and that's just one of a miscellany of handsets this place caters for.
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Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. The new devices with be unlocked and made available to the people who'll use them.

If HTC locked the phones like Motorola does, then there will be no further HTC gadgets for me.
I didn't buy Motorola because of the same reason.

Every time they make a "secure lock" it takes all of a week to open and rewrite
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
This is phase and as such, will pass

oka1 said:
IF they did make it uncrackable, according to the Supreme court decision it would violate ownership rights.
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Click to collapse
I think you need to re-read that.
The Supreme Court said it wasn't illegal to hack/tweak/modify software such as rooting/jail-breaking but that doesn't magically give you a right to do so.
If end-users have the right to modify their handsets, how do Motorola get away with their encrypted bootloader?

Unofficial Verizon Locked Bootloader Discussion Thread

Figure we can keep the back and forth here and out of the R&D thread...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

I'm curious how closely the USCellular model is to Verizon's and if it is the USCellular model that Samsung will sell as a "developers edition"
Any ideas?

I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.

Wontfinishlast said:
I hope it's not too late. That thread seems long gone... I'm just glad people are staying out of AdamOutler's r&d thread. They actually seem to be getting somewhere.
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Click to collapse
There's some very intelligent people working in there. It amazes me.

Thanks for creating this thread. I keep an eye on the bootloader threads and get tired of having to suffer through pages and pages of people *****ing and moaning about everything related to the bootloader issue except the actual progress in development.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.

For anyone interested, I submitted a complaint to the FCC regarding the locked bootloader on the GS3. If you'd like to do the same, go to fcc.gov and click on file a complaint. Then choose wireless provider and then choose the option related to deceptive actions. There is a 1000 character limit to your complaint. Here is the text of my complaint.
Verizon is the only major carrier to have released the Samsung Galaxy SIII with a locked bootloader. There was nothing in Verizon's advertised specs about a locked bootloader. Their explanation is that the device is locked to maintain the security and integrity of the network. However, they are currently selling another Samsung phone, the Galaxy Nexus which has an unlockable bootloader. Also, Verizon has announced a "developer edition" of the Galaxy SIII with an unlockable bootloader for use on Verizon's network. That device must be purchased directly from Samsung for $599. How can Verizon claim a network security and integrity issue and then sell, offer and allow such devices on their network? I feel that Verizon has tricked many customers into paying for a device that they can't use to it's full potential. They know that "security" is a great loophole for complying with the letter of their Auction 73 Block C requirements while totally violating the spirit of that agreement.
That complaint is 990 characters. If you'd like to copy it for your own use, please feel free to do so. Hopefully, enough of us will do this to get the attention of the FCC, consumer organizations and those in positions of influence over the wireless industry.
Sent from my LOCKED (Verizon, you suck), SCH-I535.

I didn't get a chance to file a complaint with the FCC last night but will tonight.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Filed mine yesterday..

Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.

makogaleos said:
Got a call from VZW customer service today. They asked if I was content with my recent upgrade!
She agreed with me that often people buy Androids instead of iPhones because Androids are so customizeable. I expected to be able to use an OS of my choosing on this phone, so I am upset that Verizon locked the bootloader. She understood and sympathized, and now on a server somewhere in the world, there's a short note stating that I'm unhappy with my upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha.. awesome!
I understand the notes on my Verizon account are "colorful."

This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
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Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.

BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.

ancashion said:
Help us draft a response to help describe the issues, without losing our audience then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

wera750 said:
Honestly, with the latest kexec method, I'm not sweating the boatloader anymore
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 AM ----------
jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn- I'm already out of thanks to give.
I'd give you a gold star, but there ain't any. how about a :good:

jaj6503 said:
Now now. I assume Gary H has waaaaay better things to do than constructively help a minority of peers, like post rude and useless commentary in Internet forum threads created to provoke attention to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”

BarryH_GEG said:
It's "Barry" and I have no problem helping you guys.
"People choose Android phones for their openness. That openness allows portability so we can use the phones we've purchased from a single carrier on other carriers so that, based on the free market competition the FCC fosters, we have choices. Up until Verizon launched the new Samsung Galaxy SIII which is projected to sell in the tens of millions, Verizon (like all the other carriers) supported Android's openness and portability. With this new device, Verizon has locked the bootloader (the ability for users to modify the phone) limiting its portability. They did so without any communication with customers only finding out after entering in to a 2-year binding agreement with penalties. If other carriers follow Verizon’s dangerous precedent, and it’s reasonable to think they will, it runs contra to everything the FCC works so diligently to uphold. ”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your post, Barry.
FCC is not ignorant to their own laws. That is, their jobs, after all. It is okay to include a bit of legalese in this case. Maybe mentioning Block C requirements §27.16(e).
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree though with the encryption of the bootloader locking down the OS. That, they don't care about which has already been proved by Verizon's response to the Razr FCC complaint suggesting it was for "customer service requirements" and "Network security."
Section (e) of §27.16 also includes a blip about the locking down of the device to prevent said device from being used on a different network.
Verizon, will have to explain the reasonableness of keeping an encrypted lock on your device after you've decided to make the switch.
But, for it to work, you must first be truthfully denied by Verizon for this request. Only then, can you back them into a corner.
Truthfully, this will work for all 4g devices, from the Razr to the S3 with encrypted bootloaders.
I explain in more detail here, however, I got very few responses as it think it was over the heads of most.
Really, it's quite simple and again, VZW will have to explain how the action is reasonable, which I can't think of one way they can do. Not when I've decided to take this device to a different network. Basically, they'll tell the FCC it's "reasonable" to lock me to VZW's network which is expressly prohibited by that law. I just can't see how they can do it.
Edit- I'm all out of thanks to give so :good:

ancashion said:
Now I may be wrong here because I've never flashed a rom but come to the S3 from an X2 so I've done my time with encrypted boot-loaders, but-
I thought we could change settings/features/etc. on each Rom, but, changing the base kernel of the OS is impossible. Thus, when a new OS is released from Google- say key lime pie, and it drastically changes the kernel, we will forever be prevented from putting that on our device.
Again, I may be wrong. My understanding of it is very limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.

ExodusC said:
I believe you are mistaken.
I came from a Droid 2 Global, where we had a similar situation. We were stuck on the Gingerbread kernel, and with no kexec, we were unable to chain-load a new kernel. We eventually got ICS ports like CM9, but that's because developers made lots of wrappers to make the existing Android ICS framework compatible with the Gingerbread kernel.
This is different from the Galaxy S3, however. We have a working kexec port that allows us to chain-load any custom kernel we want. This means that the bootloader initially loads the original, signed Samsung kernel, and then while that kernel is running, it actually loads our new, unsigned kernel directly on top of the currently running kernel. The unsigned kernel is then the one handling everything. There is pretty much nothing from the kernel-upwards that we can't modify- it's only the lower level stuff, which is pretty much just the bootloader itself.
We now have an auto-kexec method that streamlines the entire process, too. Previously, the kexec/kernel package had to be flashed in recovery before starting Android, otherwise the new kernel would not be loaded. The auto-kexec method keeps everything on a cache partition, and automatically flashes the package with each reboot. Basically the only drawback to our auto-kexec method is that it takes a bit longer to reboot/start the device, because it must first automatically boot into recovery and flash the package.
Still, this method pretty much entirely circumvents the bootloader. Plus, if you've taken a look at the CM9 install guide for our device, the actual installations of ROMs with auto-exec are now as simple as flashing the custom recovery to the device and then flashing a ROM via recovery. It's near-identical to how you normally flash ROMs.
Because of all this hard work, AOSP ROMs with custom kernels are a reality, and I can only hope we'll see official support from the CyanogenMod team and other major ROM teams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply. I have no more thanks to give so :good: will have to do. I'll try and come back to give the props you deserve.
My apologies for being so thick on it. I've got a ton to learn.

BarryH_GEG said:
This is Julius Genachowski , head of the FCC.
Does this look like a person who knows what a locked vs. unlocked bootloader is? You guys are shooting over the heads of your audience by assuming they know the terms you're using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but he looks like the type that would have 3 hot female geek interns that could explain it to him. FCC takes the time to figure out the whole situation I dunno how you can judge what someone looks like as to what power they may have... Hes got the finger that could potentially hit the red button. I mean common hes go a red tie! I'll try and file a complaint this weekend. I'm not really cool with the whole 14 day return deal. I want the phone that was advertised because I had to upgrade due the the fact i was forced to... keep in mind they didn't let us know via Verizon to customer communication only through thrid party...

EDNYLaw regarding locked bootloader's

Author is xda member Ednylaw
To file with the FCC, EDNYLaw has created a formal complaint. To use, simply click the link below, download the .docx and input YOUR name and information required below.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26329079/FCC%20Complaint%20Web.docx
Here is EDNYlaw in his own words:
Quoted from Post 55: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=29945914&postcount=55
EDNYLaw said:
I am the Attorney who wrote that comment on Droid Life and wrote the FCC Complaint. Please direct all your questions to me as I'm happy to answer them and help move things forward. A couple of things:
1) To those that think unlocking a bootloader is pointless with all the workarounds, I don't want to hear it, if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion but please don't pollute this thread with your useless comments. Help or get out. PS: if the bootloader gets unlocked I fully expect either a) a statement from anyone saying it was pointless thanking the community if they choose to unlock or b) you DO NOT unlock your bootloader
2) I have not taken Verizon to court, the FCC did not take Verizon to court. The FCC made a determination that Verizon is violating the C Block regulation (it's a regulation, not law, there's a difference) and fined them. The violation was in regard to tethering apps and Google wallet. While my complaint touched on these things, the gravamen of my complaint was regarding locked bootloaders and custom ROMs, which I believe there is still a significant argument to be made.
3) Anyone who wants to read my full complaint (and send it to the FCC or their US Senators/Representatives under their name) it is located here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/109uYmho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit edit it accordingly as the beginning part was specific to me
4) Keep me informed and up to date about anything. The more minds the better. I've subscribed to this topic so I'll check in when I can.
5) As of yet I can't really think of a cause of action to take Verizon to court other than an injunction, but I'm not even thinking about a lawsuit unless it's funded or I get some help from other attorneys. I have a full time job and I'm learning to develop in my free time so I just don't have the time to pursue a giant lawsuit by myself for free right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDNYLaw said:
If OP could put this in the OP it'll probably be helpful:
When I say fill in your information I mean:
I've bolded the things you need to fill in
STATE OF YOUR STATE )
)ss:
COUNTY OF YOUR COUNTY )
----------------------------------------------------------------X
In re Verizon Wireless
YOUR NAME
Complainant,
-against-
Verizon Wireless
----------------------------------------------------------------X
You do not need an FCC Complaint Number, the reason I had a complaint number was I had previously sent in a complaint.
Make sure you also "sign" it at the bottom (last page) above where it says Complainant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Continued...
EDNYLaw said:
1) Use my complaint (provided in my post above) and in the first part where it says Verizon Wireless against... fill in your name and in the last part where it says "Respectfully Submitted" put your info in (Name, address, telephone, email)
2) I filed the complaint with the FCC and got a BS canned response from Verizon, I refiled and got the same canned BS response. After my Senator followed up I got a response from the FCC saying I could file a formal complaint, but clearly that was just a dead end since I filed 2 formal complaints and pushed the issue with my senator. Though I guess someone at the FCC caught wind because that 7/31 decision seemed to agree with my complaints and the timing was a little too coincidental
3) Completely free: go to fcc.gov and click on file consumer complaint. Email, fax or mail my complaint with your information filled in to them. I would also send it to your US Senators. Anyone from Minnesota, I think Senator Franken would be a great person to follow up with something like this.
4) In order to help out, SPREAD THE WORD! The more people that are vocal about this the better. When I was doing this with Moto I tried to get Droid Life, Android Central and Phandroid to post an article but none of them were interested. I say, spam them and get them to post an article with my complaint and what people can do. Again, the more people that are complaining and vocal, the more likely a response will be had. Give people my complaint to fill in, email the fcc chairman and commissioners (google to find their emails, it's just [email protected]). If you (or someone you know who is interested in this type of thing) is an attorney, feel free to PM me and maybe we can talk about something. Again, I don't have a tremendous amount of time to invest in this for no pay and by myself. But if there were enough attorney's interested I'd do it pro bono (for free) with the help of a group of attorneys.
And as I said, if you have questions about Verizon's policy and potential violations, ask me and I'll try to answer them. I did all the research and writing myself in my spare time and I think I nailed it insofar as the legal issues. There is next to no case law on the specific issues so I had to make legal arguments based on what little resources I had and the plain language of the regulation. Now at least that the FCC has released this decision, there is some precedent that they are actually willing to enforce a regulation instead of being a puppet for the wireless carriers (though I'm not completely convinced they're autonomous, 1.25 million to Verizon is nothing when their profits were 2.4 billion last year, that's .0005% of their profits for those keeping score at home)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks EDNYLaw. Mine is going in the mail today!
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Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!

Haha this is epic. Here comes another fine Verizon!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

Dude I wish you well, and your kinda my hero today lol
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium

Very nice; thanks for posting it.
More momentum for our filing our complaints.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1808956
FCC will win, VZW will send an update....right at the moment I say to myself, "Ah....it took weeks but I have my phone exactly how I want it!"

am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.

brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
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Click to collapse
Perfectly is an overstatement. It kinda sucks and we don't have a ton of development cause devs frankly don't want to deal with it.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

We do have a good workaround, however we shouldn't need a workaround.
Hopefully this goes somewhere, and Verizon has to fork out some more of that money of ours.

What was the outcome of this letter? It was pre Nexus S, so I assume it's been dealt with?

brockkk said:
am i the only one who sees no reason for unlocking the bootloader? we have a perfectly functioning workaround.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Workarounds are a stop-gap, duct tape, a rubber band and bubble gum, and should be temporary. Many (myself included) don't want to deal with it and it isolates us from a significant part of the dev community. One of the reasons I wanted the SIII is for its large, wide-spread attention...but ours is gimped.
The bigger issue is that VZW won't stop at bootloaders; how long before they lock everything?
The biggest issue is VZW is doing an end-run around the law.

AndroidGraphix said:
Just read this and thought it would be nice to share.
http://www.google.com/gwt/x/e?u=htt...Ymho_6daIpAl0ACPSFoK0qrd6K9wp5yeqM7dEaoI/edit
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!

ddggttff3 said:
Where did you read that? Also, keep us updated!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found on Droid life.
Good bye HTC Rezound, hello Galaxy S3!

Drama queens. The development is fine.

brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason why we are "drama queens" is because Verizon is violating the law and is telling us that they could care less about that they locked the bootloader even if it violates the Block C since they can somehow get away with stuff like that.

brockkk said:
Drama queens. The development is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously a noob with no idea of the potential this phone has and how crippled it is with a locked bootloader. Either that or he is killing time until he can preorder the iphone 5.
Sent from my unlocked GTab 2 running CM10

This guy needs to talk to them about Google wallet. Stupid Verizon.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

Anyone know who the author is ??
the title is little misleading only cuz the fcc has not taken them to court yet, and more then likely Verizon will comply before it makes it to court
it looks more of very formal and will written compliant to the fcc (could be wrong still reading from phone)
very valid points presented in the compliant the fcc will diffidently pay attention to this one
i would suggest the author attache the petition in this thread to the complaint
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1756483
Sent from my Encrypted S3

Yeah, well. They claim that an unlocked bootloader shaves a few seconds off boot time. But it also has the ability to prevent bricks, and it makes development more open-ended. Right now all of vzw's custom rom devs have to bake kexec into the rom, which require extra work.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.

tonu42 said:
Look at how far whining has gotten for the Droid Series by Motorola. No where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did Motorola have an agreement with the FCC prohibiting such activities?
If it doesn't stop now, how long before your recovery also becomes locked?

kmoore11 said:
To everyone saying that some people here are drama queens, look at all the development the international version has: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1566. Just about all I see on that page is ROMs, ROMs, and more jelly bean ROMs. The locked bootloader has turned devs away from our version (as many people have already said). You may be happy with CM10 and a kexec workaround, but a lot of us want more options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
International version had a jump on Verizon. Hell every other carrier did. I browsed the first page of at&ts development and counted 7 ROMs Verizon had 4 on their first page. And don't even bother looking at sprints development section. This is all getting blown out of proportion.

Motorola RAZR XT910 gets ICS today

The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.

nick2012 said:
The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's Motorola. They say, "unlocked bootloaders soon," they mean "shut up about unlocked bootloaders." They say, "update in Qx," they mean "update in late Qx or the next quarter after that."
Basically, Google needs to shove its hand up Motorola's butt and turn it into a puppet for it to be respectable in any update or development-related areas.

This things of searching for updates every 4 hours is driving me crazy, i want ICS Now Motorola, did you hear that? You locked us down with the bootloader, at least give us updates more frequently, is that so hard ? Just ask to the developers to work more and stop fooling around in the office.

maxiordoqui said:
This things of searching for updates every 4 hours is driving me crazy, i want ICS Now Motorola, did you hear that? You locked us down with the bootloader, at least give us updates more frequently, is that so hard ? Just ask to the developers to work more and stop fooling around in the office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's my estimation too. Probably Q4 - End of September / beginning of October.

athani said:
The soak hasn't even started yet. Then there'll be further ironing out of the bugs. We're looking at a month here. Save your time and find something useful to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.

Screw the soak and OTA...bet it wont beat what I got on it now! I wait for no manufacturer or carrier...they can eat it.
Sent From My Delicious Ice Cream Sandwich! Not Your Disgusting Apple Pie!

nick2012 said:
The international version of the XT910 gets ICS today, reports GSMArena.com
I almost forgot my experiences from the Cliq and Cliq 2, but when Motorola says an update is ready at quarter whatever, they NEVER EVER mean at the beginning of the quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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maxiordoqui said:
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to break it to you but September 2012 ain't over yet!

maxiordoqui said:
I work 10h per day, 5 days per week, i'm not fooling around with the phone all the ****ing time, i just ask what a phone like this diserves, claimin something that the company promised between July-September, thats all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to be patient!
Too many people on here are all bent out of shape that they don't have the "official" ICS yet. Heck be glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.
Checking for an update so often is just a waste of time, until we start to hear that others are seeing at least the SOAK, and guess what, that still has not been released to those on the SOAK list.
Again just be patient, it will get here, when it get's here.

jimbridgman said:
You need to be patient!
Too many people on here are all bent out of shape that they don't have the "official" ICS yet. Heck be glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.
Checking for an update so often is just a waste of time, until we start to hear that others are seeing at least the SOAK, and guess what, that still has not been released to those on the SOAK list.
Again just be patient, it will get here, when it get's here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...

nick2012 said:
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, wait for it... wait for it...
You bought the ticket, you take the ride (HST) so therefore, don't go around expecting a mega corporation to listen to your squeaks. You may own a small business, or a semi-large scale one, but regardless, you are nothing more than a speck on the radar of Motorola, nor am I, nor is Jim or any other person here or beyond. That being said, don't expect that just because you had certain expectations that you held prior to, and during your purchase of the ATRIX 2 that you'd get to have your cake and eat it also. Clearly, it ain't so.
Furthermore, companies do this sort of thing all the freaking time, it isn't something new, nor is it unheard of. As they say in the transportation industries, "nothing's certain in the shipping business". Same goes for technology. Software isn't something that is like a shoe, which can be mass produced after testing on a robotic "foot" for a couple of weeks. It has to be fully tested by numerous factorizations both in user capacities and otherwise.
If you feel Motorola owes you a 'timely' delivery of ICS, write them a nice letter. I'm sure it will get opened and read around the time that your letter to Santa Claus arrives to the North Pole. Both are about as useless as the other.
Quit spamming the board with 'who got what when' with a follow-up pouty faced retort about why you have this enormous sense of entitlement to get the update as you see fit.
This ain't the place for that...

nick2012 said:
There's a big problem with that Jim. I don't know of many instances where it would be acceptable for a company to issue a date for the availability of a product or service, and then push back that deadline multiple times. My clients would ditch me and go with the competition if I ran my business like that.
Which brings me to the part where we should all just be thankful to get ICS at all, because so many other phones will not. Well Jim, I bought a really expensive phone with above average hardware. I would except nothing less than getting ICS in a timely manner. With so much competition around - HTC and your own Samsung - Motorola should be very interested in keeping me happy and loyal, and making sure that my expensive devices are up-to-date and competitive.
That, Jim, is what I should be able to expect from Motorola as a customer. People in the category of 'glad you will get it at all, whenever it does come, because a whole lot of phones are not getting it at all.' - Those are iPhone owners who know they buy a product with restrictions in order to own a 'life style product'.
I will not accept to be treated like this by Motorola, with empty promises of unlocked bootloaders, and repeatedly pushed back deadlines for software releases. That is not good customer care, and Motorola won't be the brand of my next cell phone. And by the looks of it, Jim, you didn't like your Atrix 2 enough to not get a SGS 3 as well.
If I had a SGS 3 I wouldn't really worry about the ICS release for Atrix 2 so much either...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow I don't even know where to start with how wrong your post is.
I think this is the best comparison.... Say you buy a computer and it comes with windows xp installed and you are told by the store you bought it at that windows 7 is supposed to be out in the 2nd quarter and it is April. Now since it is April are you going to go to that store and whine because Microsoft is "late", or call dell or HP. Guess what there was no promise that windows 7 or 8 is guaranteed to run on your "newish" PC...
I do own my own company and all I provide is services and no products.
If I am late on a project it is not even the same as a company that sells hardware, and gives you the software for... wait for it... free. Even then it is usually 1 upgrade in the smartphone market. Guess what we have had our one upgrade already. Moto owes you nothing. Besides you bought the phone not a copy of android from Motorola/Att. Microsoft NEVER gives you a free upgrade to the next version.
P.S. we are still in the third quarter, and moto is technically not "late" on their delivery, nor have they pushed it back even once, it will still be 3rd quarter, just late 3rd quarter.
Now, grow up and stop posting crap and new threads that have nothing to do with the atrix 2. Or jump in and help dev and get us some great stuff as myself and others have been doing for 10 months now.
Also the ONLY reason I got an sgs3 is because I am a cyanogenmod dev now, and I need a phone that can run official builds. I am still sticking with the atrix 2 and still doing dev work for it.
In other words put up or shut up. By doing what you are doing does not make ics come any faster and it just pisses this community off, because we are not the ones holding it back.

We all need to calm down a bit.. yes nobody is happy with Moto's poicies, the bootloader and all, but as far as ICS is concerned, they have promised us it in Q3 and we are still in middle of it, a whole 45 days to go. One thing that we need to understand is ICS is a big leap from Gingerbread. When ICS was out i thought we can see it on devices in few months, but the fact that CM9 stable is out now, tells us the story.
We made a choice, of choosing A2, instead of many other top dogs of that time. We love the hardware, the capabilities and everything else. Even now when i see the SGS II, the build quality i know i have made the right choice, yeah it aint comforting when i see those guys running plethora of ROMs though.
Bottom line is you made your choice stick to it and wait, wait until Moto gives you ICS.. or start a campaign, better for bootloader unlock though.. that way we dont have to wait this long for updates.
Edit: the most funny part of my post? My signpic
Ps: Apex, calm down a bit mate, you are not going well with these type of posts. Yeah i know most of them are ridiculous but ignoring will be a good idea. And Jim's reputation wont change wee bit with these kind of posts. You guys are rock stars and just keep rocking.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app

S7 bootloader unlock petition

Anybody interested in the bootloader and unlocking it I encourage you to sign this petition. These phones are ours to use how we see fit and the more noise we make the better our chances are. I bought this phone under the assumption that nothing had changed and for Samsung to change their policies without notice isn't acceptable for me and hopefully you as well. Thank you
Petition

And please re-tweet:
Vote which John
It's time!

I signed

Used the picture on Instagram and @JohnLegere thanks!

lost_ said:
And please re-tweet: It's time!
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Done!
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Signed!

Signed

Signed.

This bad boy has over 500 signatures now. The more we share and retweet the louder we sound. Samsung has also responded to a few people, so you know we're being heard. Keep your fingers crossed and keep the pressure up until we hear one way or the other.

See, this is what is wrong with this picture... "Make Tmobile great again"! That's wrong, Tmo has been doing a great job as of late; do not undermine its performance just because Sammy is putting all of its panties in a bunch with their pay system.
That picture should have said "Keep Tmobile being great"! If I was the CEO of a company and I come across something like this, I would be losing respect for whatever movement faster than ligth because it is making me look bad not just the company.. especially if it has not been proven that Tmo is at fault here guys; don't paint as a bad guy an innocent party until proven guilty.. It defeats the purpose

Signed

Signed!

signed! git 'er 'dun T-Mobile!

brendan802 said:
Anybody interested in the bootloader and unlocking it I encourage you to sign this petition. These phones are ours to use how we see fit and the more noise we make the better our chances are. I bought this phone under the assumption that nothing had changed and for Samsung to change their policies without notice isn't acceptable for me and hopefully you as well. Thank you
Petition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What percentage of people do you think own the phone vs lease the phone? I would wager the vast majority are using it on JUMP or JOD or just a regular lease. If you are leasing a phone, its certainly "not yours to use how you see fit". It would be great if Samsung would allow those of us who paid the phone full price the option to unlock the bootloader, but T-Mobile is under no obligation to do it for those who lease the phone.

Signed
Sent from my SM-G935T using XDA Free mobile app

Semantics said:
What percentage of people do you think own the phone vs lease the phone? I would wager the vast majority are using it on JUMP or JOD or just a regular lease. If you are leasing a phone, its certainly "not yours to use how you see fit". It would be great if Samsung would allow those of us who paid the phone full price the option to unlock the bootloader, but T-Mobile is under no obligation to do it for those who lease the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your name is very accurate.
Also, you seem to be, at core, a very self-centered, self-serving individual. Why would you even present that argument, when an unlock for everyone gives you exactly what you get if your suggestion is implemented? Do you have a need to be one of the only ones with the full bells and whistles? Is it a need to be the cool kid with the rooted phone that no one else has? Is it because you feel more entitled, as you bought the phone outright for reasons of your own, instead of going on month-to-month? I'm genuinely curious, none of this is meant to insult you. I'm interested in the psychology behind people who see things like you did.

psych0r3bel said:
Your name is very accurate.
Also, you seem to be, at core, a very self-centered, self-serving individual. Why would you even present that argument, when an unlock for everyone gives you exactly what you get if your suggestion is implemented? Do you have a need to be one of the only ones with the full bells and whistles? Is it a need to be the cool kid with the rooted phone that no one else has? Is it because you feel more entitled, as you bought the phone outright for reasons of your own, instead of going on month-to-month? I'm genuinely curious, none of this is meant to insult you. I'm interested in the psychology behind people who see things like you did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've said already I'm not rooting regardless. I find it ironic the guy who doesn't actually own his phone feels that he's entitled to the same benefits as the people who actually do own the phone. If you want to use words like it's mine to do as I please, then you should at least own the phone before claiming ownership. I couldn't care less about an unlocked bootloader, its clearly an issue for some, but don't try and play me as the entitled one when you are in fact acting like you are owed something you are not. Bernie Sanders fan too I wager.

Semantics said:
What percentage of people do you think own the phone vs lease the phone? I would wager the vast majority are using it on JUMP or JOD or just a regular lease. If you are leasing a phone, its certainly "not yours to use how you see fit". It would be great if Samsung would allow those of us who paid the phone full price the option to unlock the bootloader, but T-Mobile is under no obligation to do it for those who lease the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id say that probably about 25-30% own them outright and I understand what you are saying but they use to be unlocked no matter what method of payment you have so why should that change now? If they would unlock just the ones sold outright that would be fine for me and I bet that would be better for the carriers too. Either way they shouldn't change their stance without notice as samsung knows how upset people become over locked bootloaders. I am with sprint for the record as t-mobile isnt available in fabulous rural rutland vermont and I posted to all carrier forums hoping the more noise we make the better for us all.

A promising lead or empty words from a Tmo employee: Real or Not?
Edit: TMobile deleted the tweet by KimB that stated, "it's getting unlocked.."

Semantics said:
What percentage of people do you think own the phone vs lease the phone? I would wager the vast majority are using it on JUMP or JOD or just a regular lease. If you are leasing a phone, its certainly "not yours to use how you see fit". It would be great if Samsung would allow those of us who paid the phone full price the option to unlock the bootloader, but T-Mobile is under no obligation to do it for those who lease the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
psych0r3bel said:
Your name is very accurate.
Also, you seem to be, at core, a very self-centered, self-serving individual. Why would you even present that argument, when an unlock for everyone gives you exactly what you get if your suggestion is implemented? Do you have a need to be one of the only ones with the full bells and whistles? Is it a need to be the cool kid with the rooted phone that no one else has? Is it because you feel more entitled, as you bought the phone outright for reasons of your own, instead of going on month-to-month? I'm genuinely curious, none of this is meant to insult you. I'm interested in the psychology behind people who see things like you did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Im not doing this just for myself I strongly believe that android should stay open the way its meant to be and locked bootloaders are not that. And actually guess what I'm on a month to month lease with sprint but if need be I will go out and buy one outright so I can do what I want with something that is supposed to be mine. Hows that for self serving because I wouldn't get the unlock if they released it right now to paid in full s7 owners. Were you expecting that I bet not. I have never had a single device whether I bought it outright or not that had a locked bootloader and I wont keep one that cannot be unlocked. Douchebag looking to start sh!t with a stranger real nice you dont know me or what I'm about. 24 payments of $30.50 but Im self serving like you thought. No response from the psychologist huh. You know samsung had previously locked phones that they sold as developer editions if you bought them outright just like I said paid in full. I think that none should be locked no matter what way you pay for them. Its like saying if you are paying off a car that you cant put a performance pipe on it because you haven't paid it completely off???
Here is my lease agreement
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!AGpsyhp_4N0lMyg&v=3&ithint=photo,png