I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
Yes, but in your example, was it a pirated version?
The reason I say this is because I've heard that the copy of WM6 that was first found was leaked from Microsoft. So then is it something that is legal?
Its a grey area. From my understanding, Microsoft released WM6 and gave phone manufacturers free upgrades to offer to customers. HTC intended to release them, but the carriers (AT&T and T-Mobile) chose not to so that they can push new phones on people who don't need them just so they can get WM6 (i.e. T-Mobile's Wing, which has the same power, features, etc as the Wizard, just a little thinner, a retarded blue color, and with WM6).
So I guess you can say, since WM6 isn't for sale, you didn't necessarily steal it, so its not illegal. Microsoft's main issue is the fact that cookers on this forum have taken WM6 and modified it to their liking, which they consider copyright infringement.
from my understanding, everyone paid already for it
Wares was sold, another are waiting to BE sold etc...
Grey area is what is working for they bills imo.
imagine whole process...since computer became home thing.
Are they poorer or richer now..?
Do we have to feel like sinners?
(i am not lawyer, you know..)
Then give me linux noW. For my Wizard.
Thanks for clearing that up! Now I don't feel bad about using it.
At Tech Ed, I cornered Microsoft's Pocket PC guy, and asked him the same thing. He also explained it for the same reasons up above.
He said Microsoft would have NO problem distributing the OS, except that they sign contracts with the carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T), and in those contracts, it says that they will give them the OS exclusively.
From a legal standpoint (I am not a lawyer), it seems like Microsoft has no problems distributing it, but if they did (or openly endorsed it), it would violate their contract with the carriers. Since I have no contract with the carriers, I have no problem using it.
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
swingheim said:
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
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meh meh, we all are here to learn
Beta testers
Yeah, I bet the watch the forum for tips and ideas, then claim the cred for it
Ford Motor Company is working with Microsoft to develop a "Sync" system for cars and trucks. Lets you connect your phone, ipod, usb drive etc. to the Cars entertainment center. They recently flashed a bunch of the vehicles at my shop, with the latest upgrades. I cmplained to the guy, about my Wizard not syncing. After the flash he came over and asked to try my phone. Not only did it work, it was capable of streaming to the the sync system. This was the first time they had it working in the field. The guy was so excited he made phne calls telling everyone about it!! He wanted to buy my Wizard!! I told him about how we make our own ROM's and stuff. And he asked me if I knew about XDA-Developers?! He tld me that get great ideas, and free programs from there!! So yes microsoft does use this site!!
Jinto.Lin said:
I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
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It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
famewolf said:
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
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I'm seeing it more like hacking an XBOX2 firmware on to an original XBOX. The PC analogy doesn't work because there are other OS choices that could be used - Linux for example. The hardware isn't dependent on the software and can be purchased sperately.
But the PocketPC is like the XBOX where the firmware only works on that hardware and they are sold together and can only come together. You can't get the hardware without the software and add it later.
I say it's a Grey area but I ran into a Microsoft Rep at a training class and he was running WM6 on his Cingular 8125 and was all proud of it until I showed him my K-Jam running the Touch FW.
-Mc
hmm
come to think of it you would need a copy of the eula or any licence agreement with the os to actually know. Otherwise we are all guessing.
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
mdhensley5 said:
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
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Here is amy view as to what we are doing. The issue is not Microsoft, but our carriers who take a base OEM ROM and play with it to push their services and we end up with a less than optimal phone.
I do not use pirated software on principle, but I use the ROMs we cook and host elsewhere( not in this board) because I have tried and cannot buy the OS from MSFT directly. So If we could buy the software and get service, updates and Service packs, I am certain we would all be willing to pay for it.
I have Microsoft development folks who come to me with issues in their devices and I point them here. They love what we do "unnoficially".
But I kid you not we are a threat to the carriers and they are the ones pressuring the vendor to try to shut us down...
Be on the lookout for the new FCC guidelines which are part of the bandwith spectrum sale. They will allow us the end user to use our devices with any carrier and install ANY software we want in OUR phones.
Just use it
Seriously who cares? Just use it buddy! We all do so many illegal things in life. Illegal things do not always amount to being a criminal like recording a TV programme which is ok with billions of people but criminal according to the FBI but then isn't everything illegal according to the FBI?
I was at a Tmo call center the other day working and a HTC rep was there preaching about the wing. I asked him if we will ever be offered a WM6 download and he told me that there is instructions on the internet of how to do it if I look around.
schmia said:
It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
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u're such a dumbass
Related
just dont buy their Vista! that should teach them something! never piss off thoses that supporting u!
netnerd said:
just dont buy their Vista! that should teach them something! never piss off thoses that supporting u!
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I never planned on it, what a rip off! XP will last another 3-5 years, then I am sure the next PC/MAC will have something better.
netnerd said:
just dont buy their Vista! that should teach them something! never piss off thoses that supporting u!
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OK....you got me....what does this have to do with upgrading your hermes.
maybe that you can not run upgrade software under vista
tco said:
OK....you got me....what does this have to do with upgrading your hermes.
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The pukes in Micro$oft's compliance and licensing department have demanded take down of all ROMs- source of the only stable, up-to-date WM versions of their piece-o-crap OS.
Palm did this to Shadowmite about a year ago after Cingular and Verizon started to complain to Palm. Basically MS is admiting that Gates is the carriers' *****- its a shame that sanctimonious prick elected to breed: conquers the computer world then surrenders it to Ma Bell, her children and their content providers.
Guess it's time to spread some pirated Office 2003 love....
I betcha what bothered them was the progress being made by the XDA Linux project- after seeing what Access released earlier this week M$ ought to be running scared.
I'm running SuSE Linux and have no problem upgrading my roms on my HTC TyTN.
and by the way.... all the little pretty pictures and how VISTA does multi windows with content.. Linux does too! XGL!!!!
This got me thinking.... can we load Linux on our phones?
This is annoying that M$ has to do this. They just cant leave anything alone.
Oh if Linux can do a ROM load then surely OSX can too then.
Yeah spread the good word on the process. In another topic of course(dont wanna de-rail)
This thread needs more LOLZOR1111!!!!
Seriously, wtf?
Don't buy Vista to show them what exactly?
Yeah, let's use a 5 year old OS with easily exploited security issues to teach them what?
The term cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind.
Also, they are protecting their legal intellectual property, and they are in the wrong?
What we do here has always been of dubious legal standing. We carry on as long as we are allowed, but we stop when we are told to stop, and that way nobody gets into trouble.
Get a grip on reality people.
Exactly well said. The trouble is instead of a nice comprehensive source of good ROMs made by people who know what they're doing. There'll be a proliferation of hacked-up images with random hacked version numbers scattered across the internet.
Will this result in fewer bricked phones and support calls?
AlanJC said:
Get a grip on reality people.
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I couldn't agree more.
Apparently a lot of people have problems with "reality" nowadays.
Yes, it sucks that the ROMs have to be pulled from the ftp servers.
Yes, Microsoft could do better and show a firmer stand regarding the carriers.
Yes, this online community is very valuable to Microsoft AND the carriers, if they realize it or not.
BUT: there are laws and if Microsoft demands the removal of the ROMs, it is their right to do so, like it or not. They could have used a more "aggressive" approach with their law department but they chose to use a more "soft" approach and this is a very wise decision.
However, Microsoft must realize that such unpopular decisions won't be forgotten and such actions will definetely not make their already bad reputation much better.
Calling for a boycott doesn't help much, I'm pretty sure myself that the carriers are behind the ROM removal, not necessarily Microsoft.
Maybe we should write a letter to the carriers, asking them if they're behind the pressure on Microsoft to have the ROMs removed. If the carriers are blamed instead and their decisions are out in the open, maybe they re-consider because trust me, I would NOT want to be a customer of a carrier who asked Microsoft to remove the ROMs. Definetely not.
personaly i'm not planning on getting vista untill maybe sp4
anyway
xp with 3th party software and no IE is safe enough
vista is mostly 3th party software functionality now as a std. ms thing
and fancy eye candy which linux and macos had for ages
but if ms see that vista is not selling as well as it should
and they connect the dots and form a picture that show that
their pull unoffical roms off sites
there is something wrong with their heads
Vista already not selling as well as it should - it started to show when it was released for volume (corporate) clients, and now its well clear that ordinary users dont rush to buy it despite all PR tsunami unleashed - maybe its "good, advanced, beautiful" and all the buzz, but even thick Joe User sees thats its somewhat lot of problems and complaints floating around.
The whole Vista thing was a reckless scheme - MS spent millions on development, but they lost the clear understanding of why exactly people will want it - on the latest stages it was more of make beleief.
Now they will have to transfer money from other branches, that is more profitable (namely being their Office branch, XBox being not profitable on their own). I think thats why they made it "WM6" (when it was clearly 5.2 originally and still 5.2 in matter of features and internal versioning) - for WM6 they can charge license fees from ODMs as for entirely new OS.
@All
Forget about roms, we will find alternative way to store them, so this is just empty talk. There are free filehosting sites, and other p2p distributing variants, so what's the problem? Microsoft has the rights to ask for deleting the roms, everyone know that. We will continiue what we doing but with difrend way of distributing rom images, thats all. About vista is sucks, you have to confirm every action you do about hunderd times, it works slow even with effects shutted down, and on high end configuration PC, it randomly loose settings, cookies, passwords, favorites, software and other stuff, overall it is unreliable fo usage.
I love to hate MS as much as the rest of you, but everybody needs to step back and take a breath on this one. The reason MS is doing this has nothing to do with piracy, Vista, progress, Linux, taking over the world, Bill Gates, them being money-grubbing pigs, or your grandmother.
The reasoning is simple...under US intellectual property laws, if they are made aware that someone is distributing their intellectual property (like a ROM that contains MS software) and they make no attempt to stop it, they forfeit their rights to that intellectual property. I don't think I need to explain why giving up their rights would be a bad idea for them.
In my experience, companies try to ignore sites like this for as long as they possibly can, because nobody wants to attract the kind of bad press a takedown notice causes. Inevitably, however, things get too big...a site gets a mention in the news, or it becomes the defacto source for ROMs, or it gets frequent mentions in other forums like cingular.com, and the attorneys finally have to face the fact that they can't possibly claim in court that they weren't aware that their IP was being distributed.
All companies do things like this every day to a lot of great sites and forums, not because they are jerks, but because the US legal system requires them to.
In the meantime, we just have to move on and do what everyone else does--find somewhere else to keep the bits
The reasoning is simple...under US intellectual property laws, if they are made aware that someone is distributing their intellectual property (like a ROM that contains MS software) and they make no attempt to stop it, they forfeit their rights to that intellectual property. I don't think I need to explain why giving up their rights would be a bad idea for them.
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Actually that's completely untrue. I think you're thinking of trademarks which do behave in that way. That was the reason for the necessary recent legal cases by Linus over the Linux trademark. There's no such requirement for copyrights or patents.
Not being on the inside it's hard to know the reason for the action: Whether it's the OEM's complaining. I think their logic is that if they only provide updates with new hardware then you'll have no choice but to buy their new hardware. and that people making updates for their older devices are harming their sales figures. they really are that dumb.
The alternative is that MS are annoyed/worried about all the information leaking about WM6 before launch and they simply want to control the release situation.
ivorh said:
Actually that's completely untrue. I think you're thinking of trademarks which do behave in that way. That was the reason for the necessary recent legal cases by Linus over the Linux trademark. There's no such requirement for copyrights or patents.
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Not quite...the nature in which you forfeit rights is different between copyrights and trademarks, but due diligence is required for both. If a known copyright infringement is not pursued within the statute of limitations, implied license is granted, meaning the infringer can essentially distribute at will.
ivorh said:
Actually that's completely untrue. I think you're thinking of trademarks which do behave in that way. That was the reason for the necessary recent legal cases by Linus over the Linux trademark. There's no such requirement for copyrights or patents.
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Click to collapse
Not quite...the nature in which you forfeit rights is different between copyrights and trademarks, but due diligence is required for both. If a known copyright infringement is not pursued within the statute of limitations, implied license is granted.
No offence guys but Microsoft or the Vendors wouldn't have given crap about the roms here if it wasn't for the idiots (yes you know who you are) pestering the vendors and Microsoft about support for yet to be released roms. Either bugging them with questions on why something doesn't work anymore, how to use something in the new rom (GPS....), or warrenty repair for f'ing up one's device. Not to mention how pissed they must be for the even bigger idiots who contact Vender A and tell them they installed Vendor A rom on Vender B device
Really what it comes down to is if it costs them money they are going to make a stink and handling service calls for hacked/unsupported roms costs them money. Not to mention how much it would piss off Vendor A to spend money enhancing their rom only to have news sites promoting the rom to other Vendor B devices and have people installing it on Vendor B's device.
That's really what this is all about so if there is anyone to blame in all this, don't blame Microsoft or the Vendors, blame those people because if it wasn't for them, the vendors and Microsoft would have given a sh*t and probably just let things be the way they should be.
Maybe an appropriate response would be to overwhelm MS and the Carriers support systems with complaints about slow, non functioning, unstable software and devices.
The Carriers who actually sell most of us our phones should be ashamed of offering such substandard products. The diference between an "XDA-Developers sourced ROM" and the stock ROM on my device at least is enormous. Yet it was achieved by unpaid amateurs, I mean no disrespect to ROM chefs with this statement.
With the Windows update features built in to WM6 maybe there is a mechanism for MS to offer timely updates/fixes direct to the user. These updates could have incorporated "XDA-Developers" inspired enhancements and bug fixes. Sadly I feel this will not now be the case.
Yes, I can understand the global motives of MS in protecting its intelectual property but I cannot perceive any benefit to MS by exerting its right/might in this case.
</RANT>
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
ChildOTK said:
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is highly debatable. OS for Mobile devices come preinstalled and can not purchased separately for upgrading. this is quite unlike the OS for desktops where you can readily buy a new OS or upgrade an existing one. Your new device comes pre installed with an operating system so you have initially paid for it. therefore it is safe to say that only in case of mobile devices 100% buyers have paid for their OS. This is not so with desktops. Now comes the tricky bit. Do you have the legal right to upgrade? Since M$ does not sell an upgraded OS for such devices, they are infact not incurring any loss of revenue if a user is upgrading. If he can not upgrade it is wrong to suppose that he will rush out to buy a new one. However it appears that it is the cell cos who are behind M$ move. When people who upgrade seek tech assistance it does creat problems.... they do not have the expertise to handle these issues neither are they interested in upgrading the devices themselves!
Ok, I just don't want some MS agent to some and fine me for some rediculous reason or another....
Thanks.
There are rumours that M$ will be selling WM6 as an upgrade... which would give a reason as to why they waited til now to ask us to take down our ftp.
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... v interesting article, thanks
Ya, the worst they do, only if your hosting the files, is send an email. (trust me, I know) They will not hunt you down!
hahahaha, trust you. Remember theirs always a first time. hehehe
f??k em
this what i think of ms... hehehe
Our devices come with a licence for "Windows Mobile".
WM6 clearly comes within this
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Only with couple of OEMs. I checked with Imate but they have no intention of providing upgrades. Thats it.
I paid my Qtek 9000 about 1.000 Euro,and I think that it is my decision what I want to do with it...maybe install Symbian on it..? I think that nothing is gonna happend so far as WM6 stays "open source"..Difference about upgrade and new Jwrightmcps platform is evident...I downloaded Jwrightmcps WM6 from here and it is totally new platform..with some bugs which will be solved,but beautiful and rich functional,..If they in Mics...attempt to make update that would be just carefull minor upgrade of WM5...isnt it? Any problem what potentionally could be is about using their name so I suggest to rename new platform in something different...XDA 1 perhaps...
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
tin2404 said:
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
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Click to collapse
Try mortplayer. Its good. Google it and you will get it.
The Symbian cellphones seem to be so legal that you can never upgrade them to the new OS version or modify the ROM.
But M$ knows how to deal with the market.M$ disregards whether WM6 upgrating is legal or not.So more people will buy WM phones instead of buying Symbian ones.
Almost 90% of computers in China are running illegal Windows because of the M$'s neglect of them.No computers are running Windows in developing countries will be a real disaster to M$.
symbian & UIQ does not have a ROM...it is completly based on JAVA platform....and...yes....there is a plenty of programs ( .sis) for upgrading platform.but it is not an issue here...the issue is that should we be concerned about MS policy to prossecute everything and everybody..we can see,Universal 6 and Linux platforms grows day by day...and differences becomes bigger and bigger...Developers here are running "light years" infront of MS and they in MS will "fight back"...Linux is not a problem...Problem is (or will be) "Windows Media Player"..."Outlook"..."Internet Explorer"...etc.etc...because these names are licenced by them and they WILL focus on that fact...and China is special case...it is potentional industrial giant and it is the biggest future market so it is normal that if you want success on that vast market you will "blink on one eye"...(Yahoo and Google did that as we saw in near past when they agree to give Chinese goverment all data which they collect..remember...internet is not free in China(!))..but this is out of this topic..I think developers here should first do renaming applications and further developing them independetly..Indeed,technology and behavour is similar to all specific applications and there is no any philosophy (for example : IE and Firefox are similar browsers for one purpose and based on one technology,and differences are "slight" , but because of that,MS does not have right for any complain...)...I think here we should go that way...
Just read another post where it was mentioned that technically the different ROM versions floating around on the site are illegal.
And WM6 for free? I'd say that's piracy. You do pay for at least to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista?
When you buy a new computer that comes with an OS, you can't assume that you are entitled for a free upgrade
to OS when ever one is released.
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In some sense I can see that this might be true! after all, its well known that this site won't tolerate warez... but its fine for beta/non-beta ROMS to be cooked and made freely available to anyone with compatible devices...
Don't get me wrong... I'm all for it and envy all of our cooks - if I could understand how to do it I would!!! I'm just wondering what the true legalities are?
Please don't shoot me
lots of views on the matter here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294142&highlight=legal
"And WM6 for free? I'd say that's piracy. You do pay for at least to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista?"
this statement is not really true because ms sell vista and vista upgrades
nor ms or htc or any of the OEM's of the htc devices have ever sold upgrades ms stay out of it 100% htc (pre them selling themselfs) always just made basis roms and given them to the operators to customize and give users free
If it is being sold and we used it without buying, that's illegal, just like the computer situation.
In PPC situation, how can it be legal or illegal when it is not sold in the first place?
"True" legalities are simple: M$ has copyright on this material so though I am not a legal expert of any kind I am sure they will have no trouble proving in court that even simple redistribution of ROMs without any alteration by a non authorized party such as this site is illegal.
Then again, since neither M$ nor the OEMs (not jut HTC) don't bother with updates unless a given device is really unstable so they need to fix some bugs and you can never by a newer OS even if your device supports it I thinks this is basically "fare use".
After all it is a dirty commercial trick to force people to by new hardware at ridiculous prices just to keep the software up to date.
CWKJ said:
In PPC situation, how can it be legal or illegal when it is not sold in the first place?
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Violating patents is illegal,while they are not sold. Violating GPL is illegal, while the product covered by GPL is free. So "not sold" means nothing.
You might know that in modern world nobody sells software itself. They sell or give away licenses on its use. When you buy such a software, it is written on the envelope: "By opening blah-blah-blah" and you accept the license this way. It is not a case with my TyTN! I didn't have to accept a license before starting to use the software. Same with firmware of several devices on the market.
If there are no any contractual relationships between me and the owner of the rights on this software, I violate nothing by using it on a way of my choice.
Well, stolen betas is of different kind: the person who first started to distributed it violated NDA or something like. It is known. So I can't disagree it's illegal.
When you download a firmware update from the vendor, you amy have to accept a license. If you have done, then cooking from it may be illegal.
But I see nothing illegal when no an agreement was accepted.
I think the answer is not quite as simple. Is it legal? Well, technically it is not.
A lot of copyright law could and would defend this point.
However in this world of ours, not everything is about the law. Especially when money is involved.
Having MS and HTC simply say that if you want to taste WM6 that you have to buy a new gadget is not illegal. In fact as the owners and the licenser this is completely their right to do. Sh!tty? Sure! But why not? It is their right, and for us to use WM6 because we don't want to pay does NOT make it right.
The fact of the matter is the number of users who will be upgrading to WM6 through cooked ROMs is rather small and honestly not worth their trouble.
They know most people will buy the software legally. They know that most of their serious buyers will be corporations who will buy it legally. AND ultimately, they WANT people to work and spread their software as much as possible.
Sure they are loosing money doing that --very little in the large scheme of things-- but ultimately, they win because they (US) spread knowledge and we create future customers. Since eventually most of us will upgrade hardware and if when we do, we will most likely stick with WM rather than lets say go to Nokia's Symbian.
They are not stupid and this is why they have not tried to shut down XDA Developers outright for even hosting ROM cookers who are obviously working on leaked versions of their software.
the only skin of htc and ms's nose is that people may not replace their phones as fast
but then same would be true for pc's if they too were made not to have os upgraded
operators like orange and tmobile and the likes could not care less
sim unlocking a phone harm them much much more since that imply that you will stop using the service that they make money on
An interesting historical fact: back when home computer was a new concept and Apple and IBM just began their competition Apple made a tactical mistake: They prevented others from duplicating the BIOS of their machines (I don't remember if this was a legal or technical issue, it's been a while since I saw the documentary). They still do it afaik.
The result: "IBM compatible" clones popped up all over the place at a much cheaper prices then the original (in fact who owns "real" IBM today anyway?) which caused the PC architecture to spread and made MACs an endangered species.
It is the same with (desktop) windows: because there are so many cracked versions floating around ever since 3.11 (maybe even before) it gained so much popularity it became almost standard.
So basically M$ owns their success to piracy. After all some people will not by their crap - if they can't get it for free they will use something else, while the major customers (namely corporations, public facilities etc.) would still purchase it legally even if there were no protection measures.
P.S.
agovinoveritas: if you check the 'About' icon in your control panel you will find a nice fat copyright statement. And as copyrights are something you agree to automatically by using a software product (no need to sing / click or even have a warning on the box) MS still has a way of telling you what you can and can not do with the ROM of your device.
MS don't even need that copyright statement. Copyright isn't something that needs to be asserted, it exists regardless.
levenum said:
agovinoveritas: if you check the 'About' icon in your control panel you will find a nice fat copyright statement. And as copyrights are something you agree to automatically by using a software product (no need to sing / click or even have a warning on the box) MS still has a way of telling you what you can and can not do with the ROM of your device.
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Click to collapse
Yes, old news. Everybody who is a tech-head in here knows this. But how is that relevant to my statements?
For those savvy people, you know that by the mere fact that you created something, technically you are protected by intellectual copyright law.
However we are drifting from the main point.
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
they are just happy to find a place where winmo doesn't get bashed constantly
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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LOL, your first post and you have a pop at this site?
You dont work for MS do you
GREAT first post.
anyway.
They tolerate it because we don't personally host anything and yes, we do make windows mobile better.
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
LOL duude...are u an attorney or do u own an iphone?
m$ knows better to keep this site alive. its their faults we are tweakin up and makin it better. beside...you never know...this draws a lot and i mean a lot of ppl towards m$. so i m pretty much sure the revenue keeps em' happy
yesod7 said:
There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone
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One here!!!
microsoft never sold wm to any end user
and this site never taken part in porting wm to a device that dident came with it
more because of the close to impossibility of doing so
so as ms still get their licensense from the manufactors
and better rep with users who can get more out of their devices then just
depending on what the manfucators give before they forget about older devices
and move on to their new stuff
more wm phone owners keep getting new wm devices rather then moving to iphones or symbian devices so
it helps ms out alot in their quest of getting a larger % of the market
Plus, along with the free tech ehlp, the improving of current phones, we all know new htc phones will be tweaked cooked and stuff, so buy another phone. so XDA not only saves tehm money, but actually gains them money
It's because of this site that I'm looking at the Windows Mobile platform for my next phone rather than traditional Nokia, Sony Ericsson (other than x1), or even the iPhone..... actually come to think of it, without the exisitence of this site EVER, I would get an iPhone 3G right away.
you will see that in the coming future microsoft will be incorporating programs and devs that were created through this site to their platform. There was once a time when microsoft tried to shut it down when they realised that the site actually brings more people to microsoft and keeps them there.
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
yesod7 said:
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
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Yup, that's it.
TheChampJT said:
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
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Amen to that!
Why haven't they done anything?
because nobody there is smoking crack
Would you close down a site that gets people talking about your products ? that is full of people writing programs that enhances the usability of your products? that's a great place to see some ideas you might steal for later versions of your OS.
This is free R&D!
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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Alas, I saw this differently with others. I think the question is very out of topic since this is an All-HTC-Devices forum, not an M$ WM forum. It's only 'coincidence' that after these years, HTC always used WM as their OS.
If HTC decided in the future that they will build their own OS, or maybe use Android, then it may trigger M$ to reconsider its stance against this forum. Especially, when we -as always- try to improve our experience with the devices, do it by porting some parts (drivers/softwares) from WM to other OS, or vice versa. Then the issue may be valid.
Btw, I don't know but do you all think it's safe -legally and/or morally- to port other vendor/ODM's part (drivers/softwares/etc) into our HTC devices? I ask this because I saw many attempts already...
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
gsessons said:
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
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and if the truth be known, they (M$) are happy that the masses dont know., in truth, the people on this site contain more knowledge and expertise than all of m$ combined as far as HTC handsets are concerned and how to tweak and tune the software to ACTUALLY work. it could be perceived as (truth) the Big companies are just mass clearing houses of useless data they can sell for a profit. how many of us came here for the first time only looking for useable software programs? how many of us came here for the first time trying to find a solution to an OEM problem?
M$ has found a truly unique forum in the world of r&d., although probably more out of frustration than than anything else, the majority of talented people here could teach this stuff to most of the employees at m$ about these devices and how they work and why.
I would be very surprised if they didnt have a staff of several people working there monitoring and testing to roms and software packages developed or tweaked through this site. they would have to be unbelieveably arrogant to think this is a bad thing for business, and we all know who one of the richest men and companies in the world is dont we. he didnt just fall off the truck so to speak, he understands..............economics!
With all of that in mind can anyone understand why pocket development is not possible on Visual studio express editions (free).
Isn't that a shoot on the foot? I think so.
I think that a platform with a lot of developers is much more appeling, and then seel more. Only a opinion from someone that will never buy a iphone.
does anyone know if i can sell my phone on eBay legally if it is hacked and loaded with a custom rom?
i'm runnin' winmo 6.5 right now, so will i be allowed to say it in the listing? because clearly it doesn't come that way.
SPpasty said:
does anyone know if i can sell my phone on eBay legally if it is hacked and loaded with a custom rom?
i'm runnin' winmo 6.5 right now, so will i be allowed to say it in the listing? because clearly it doesn't come that way.
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Can you sell an older car with a new race engine ? Can you sell your house with with a newly remodeled kitchen ? Can you sell your children now that they are older, talk back, eat too much and are a general pain in the ass ? ( well maybe not that one. )
The point is, you can sell what ever you want, and in any condition that you want, as long as you don't misrepresent it. If it has a custom rom, list it as such. The HTC warranty is non-transferable anyway. So some one might like the custom rom.
Or reflash the original rom and spl and sell it as stock.
denco7 said:
The point is, you can sell what ever you want, and in any condition that you want, as long as you don't misrepresent it. If it has a custom rom, list it as such. The HTC warranty is non-transferable anyway. So some one might like the custom rom.
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Actually, Denco, this isn't completely accurate. If Microsoft contacts eBay regarding taking down phones with a hacked Windows Mobile, then eBay will do it without question. In fact, Tomtom is doing something similar right now. If you find a way to install the Tomtom software on a non-supported phone and you try to sell it, the listing may get taken down.
Nonetheless, at the moment, I believe selling phones with customized ROMs is completely fine. I've done it myself about a few months back (sold a Hermes with a custom ROM) on eBay. Unfortunately, I can't see any example on eBay right now, but there appears to be people selling custom Windows Mobile ROMs (yes, just the ROMs) on eBay right now.
Please don't forget you are infringing Microsoft's Copyright.
Since WM 6.5 hasn't been released yet, you would be selling a device holding pirated copyrighted (and confidential) material. No doubt that this is against E-bays policy!
the-equinoxe said:
Please don't forget you are infringing Microsoft's Copyright.
Since WM 6.5 hasn't been released yet, you would be selling a device holding pirated copyrighted (and confidential) material. No doubt that this is against E-bays policy!
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As is everyone selling a comupter loaded with software, and everyone who sells a Zune or iPod loaded with music. And any phone that has any commercial software on it at all. Unless you include all the original disks and erase all copies from your possession.
All these, software, music , phone software, are licensed to the original purchaser only, not to the device.
My point was being true to the buyer, not to ebay or M$.That is why I said list it with a custom rom, you don't have to say 6.5. If they have a problem with it. Take it down, reflash it and puy it back up.