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Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
ChildOTK said:
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is highly debatable. OS for Mobile devices come preinstalled and can not purchased separately for upgrading. this is quite unlike the OS for desktops where you can readily buy a new OS or upgrade an existing one. Your new device comes pre installed with an operating system so you have initially paid for it. therefore it is safe to say that only in case of mobile devices 100% buyers have paid for their OS. This is not so with desktops. Now comes the tricky bit. Do you have the legal right to upgrade? Since M$ does not sell an upgraded OS for such devices, they are infact not incurring any loss of revenue if a user is upgrading. If he can not upgrade it is wrong to suppose that he will rush out to buy a new one. However it appears that it is the cell cos who are behind M$ move. When people who upgrade seek tech assistance it does creat problems.... they do not have the expertise to handle these issues neither are they interested in upgrading the devices themselves!
Ok, I just don't want some MS agent to some and fine me for some rediculous reason or another....
Thanks.
There are rumours that M$ will be selling WM6 as an upgrade... which would give a reason as to why they waited til now to ask us to take down our ftp.
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Hmmm... v interesting article, thanks
Ya, the worst they do, only if your hosting the files, is send an email. (trust me, I know) They will not hunt you down!
hahahaha, trust you. Remember theirs always a first time. hehehe
f??k em
this what i think of ms... hehehe
Our devices come with a licence for "Windows Mobile".
WM6 clearly comes within this
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Only with couple of OEMs. I checked with Imate but they have no intention of providing upgrades. Thats it.
I paid my Qtek 9000 about 1.000 Euro,and I think that it is my decision what I want to do with it...maybe install Symbian on it..? I think that nothing is gonna happend so far as WM6 stays "open source"..Difference about upgrade and new Jwrightmcps platform is evident...I downloaded Jwrightmcps WM6 from here and it is totally new platform..with some bugs which will be solved,but beautiful and rich functional,..If they in Mics...attempt to make update that would be just carefull minor upgrade of WM5...isnt it? Any problem what potentionally could be is about using their name so I suggest to rename new platform in something different...XDA 1 perhaps...
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
tin2404 said:
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
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Try mortplayer. Its good. Google it and you will get it.
The Symbian cellphones seem to be so legal that you can never upgrade them to the new OS version or modify the ROM.
But M$ knows how to deal with the market.M$ disregards whether WM6 upgrating is legal or not.So more people will buy WM phones instead of buying Symbian ones.
Almost 90% of computers in China are running illegal Windows because of the M$'s neglect of them.No computers are running Windows in developing countries will be a real disaster to M$.
symbian & UIQ does not have a ROM...it is completly based on JAVA platform....and...yes....there is a plenty of programs ( .sis) for upgrading platform.but it is not an issue here...the issue is that should we be concerned about MS policy to prossecute everything and everybody..we can see,Universal 6 and Linux platforms grows day by day...and differences becomes bigger and bigger...Developers here are running "light years" infront of MS and they in MS will "fight back"...Linux is not a problem...Problem is (or will be) "Windows Media Player"..."Outlook"..."Internet Explorer"...etc.etc...because these names are licenced by them and they WILL focus on that fact...and China is special case...it is potentional industrial giant and it is the biggest future market so it is normal that if you want success on that vast market you will "blink on one eye"...(Yahoo and Google did that as we saw in near past when they agree to give Chinese goverment all data which they collect..remember...internet is not free in China(!))..but this is out of this topic..I think developers here should first do renaming applications and further developing them independetly..Indeed,technology and behavour is similar to all specific applications and there is no any philosophy (for example : IE and Firefox are similar browsers for one purpose and based on one technology,and differences are "slight" , but because of that,MS does not have right for any complain...)...I think here we should go that way...
I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
Yes, but in your example, was it a pirated version?
The reason I say this is because I've heard that the copy of WM6 that was first found was leaked from Microsoft. So then is it something that is legal?
Its a grey area. From my understanding, Microsoft released WM6 and gave phone manufacturers free upgrades to offer to customers. HTC intended to release them, but the carriers (AT&T and T-Mobile) chose not to so that they can push new phones on people who don't need them just so they can get WM6 (i.e. T-Mobile's Wing, which has the same power, features, etc as the Wizard, just a little thinner, a retarded blue color, and with WM6).
So I guess you can say, since WM6 isn't for sale, you didn't necessarily steal it, so its not illegal. Microsoft's main issue is the fact that cookers on this forum have taken WM6 and modified it to their liking, which they consider copyright infringement.
from my understanding, everyone paid already for it
Wares was sold, another are waiting to BE sold etc...
Grey area is what is working for they bills imo.
imagine whole process...since computer became home thing.
Are they poorer or richer now..?
Do we have to feel like sinners?
(i am not lawyer, you know..)
Then give me linux noW. For my Wizard.
Thanks for clearing that up! Now I don't feel bad about using it.
At Tech Ed, I cornered Microsoft's Pocket PC guy, and asked him the same thing. He also explained it for the same reasons up above.
He said Microsoft would have NO problem distributing the OS, except that they sign contracts with the carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T), and in those contracts, it says that they will give them the OS exclusively.
From a legal standpoint (I am not a lawyer), it seems like Microsoft has no problems distributing it, but if they did (or openly endorsed it), it would violate their contract with the carriers. Since I have no contract with the carriers, I have no problem using it.
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
swingheim said:
Btwa -- The Microsoft guy also says that everyone here at xda-developers are bad-asses, and he reads the forum regularly.
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meh meh, we all are here to learn
Beta testers
Yeah, I bet the watch the forum for tips and ideas, then claim the cred for it
Ford Motor Company is working with Microsoft to develop a "Sync" system for cars and trucks. Lets you connect your phone, ipod, usb drive etc. to the Cars entertainment center. They recently flashed a bunch of the vehicles at my shop, with the latest upgrades. I cmplained to the guy, about my Wizard not syncing. After the flash he came over and asked to try my phone. Not only did it work, it was capable of streaming to the the sync system. This was the first time they had it working in the field. The guy was so excited he made phne calls telling everyone about it!! He wanted to buy my Wizard!! I told him about how we make our own ROM's and stuff. And he asked me if I knew about XDA-Developers?! He tld me that get great ideas, and free programs from there!! So yes microsoft does use this site!!
Jinto.Lin said:
I know that you guys are getting flack from Microsoft, and I don't mind using something that they don't like. I don't mind voiding my Warranty either. (After all, I had to replace my HTC wizard's screen myself!) But is it legal to use a WM6 rom? I don't use pirated software, so I would avoid any Roms that have any, and I do like WM6.
But I'll ask it like this: Is installing WM6 like installing a pirated copy of XP on my PC? Or is it like modding Windows XP to do things similar to Vista?
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It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
famewolf said:
Installing WM6 on a WM5 phone is the equivalent of installing XP on a machine that had windows 98 installed on it.
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Click to collapse
I'm seeing it more like hacking an XBOX2 firmware on to an original XBOX. The PC analogy doesn't work because there are other OS choices that could be used - Linux for example. The hardware isn't dependent on the software and can be purchased sperately.
But the PocketPC is like the XBOX where the firmware only works on that hardware and they are sold together and can only come together. You can't get the hardware without the software and add it later.
I say it's a Grey area but I ran into a Microsoft Rep at a training class and he was running WM6 on his Cingular 8125 and was all proud of it until I showed him my K-Jam running the Touch FW.
-Mc
hmm
come to think of it you would need a copy of the eula or any licence agreement with the os to actually know. Otherwise we are all guessing.
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
mdhensley5 said:
I looked at the license for my copy of WM5 and it did say it was only to be used with the device on which it was purchased and could not be rented, leased, or lent. But, yeah, I agree with Sandrobber.
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Here is amy view as to what we are doing. The issue is not Microsoft, but our carriers who take a base OEM ROM and play with it to push their services and we end up with a less than optimal phone.
I do not use pirated software on principle, but I use the ROMs we cook and host elsewhere( not in this board) because I have tried and cannot buy the OS from MSFT directly. So If we could buy the software and get service, updates and Service packs, I am certain we would all be willing to pay for it.
I have Microsoft development folks who come to me with issues in their devices and I point them here. They love what we do "unnoficially".
But I kid you not we are a threat to the carriers and they are the ones pressuring the vendor to try to shut us down...
Be on the lookout for the new FCC guidelines which are part of the bandwith spectrum sale. They will allow us the end user to use our devices with any carrier and install ANY software we want in OUR phones.
Just use it
Seriously who cares? Just use it buddy! We all do so many illegal things in life. Illegal things do not always amount to being a criminal like recording a TV programme which is ok with billions of people but criminal according to the FBI but then isn't everything illegal according to the FBI?
I was at a Tmo call center the other day working and a HTC rep was there preaching about the wing. I asked him if we will ever be offered a WM6 download and he told me that there is instructions on the internet of how to do it if I look around.
schmia said:
It's so illigal as hell!
Regards, Schmia
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Click to collapse
u're such a dumbass
Hi
i was just reading a thread entitled 'are we all running a pirated version of WM6 on our wizards'
and it got me thinking.
theres a legal grey area surrounding xda-devs, namely, the roms that have been placed onto the ftp/forums that are the 'intellectual property' or whatever of microsoft as they were initially intended to be run as 'beta' builds despite being HEAVILY modified by the great members of this community.
so, i thought......
Why doesnt www.xda-developers.com sit down with someone from HTC and similar to how Orange or Cingular are re-branding HTC devices, why don't Xda-Devs setup their OWN OEM company.
HTC *could* (in an ideal world) sell the devices onto xda-devs or an affiliate with the devices set-up as having Super-CID, sim-unlock and being able to run unofficial code on them.
the biggest problem i think HTC have with releasing builds of OS's to the masses is the simple fact that a lot 'joe bloggs'' will ring up MS moaning about how their phone doesnt work...
but, what if the xda-devs company's contract states that the devices are sold with NO support, apart from any support provided from the forums/community at large. this way, nobody would be ringing up HTC as presumably you would have to have found this site, have a little know-how and know what you would be buying from the xda-devs company.
that way, HTC could itself release builds of the OS's to xda-devs for xda-devs to then modify, patch and optimise. this build can then be released to the masses by HTC as a stable build. HTC could as a result of this collaboration sell the devices to xda-devs at a lower cost.
i admit, it sounds a little far-fetched, but im bored and looking for a point of discussion! it could be done though i think, all you'd have to do is find some investors to buy the initial devices to sell- and of course some way to clear this with HTC!
discuss!lol\
While in concept it isn't a bad idea, I've got to point out one major flaw of humanity... our need to place blame.
Selling an unsupported device, be it new or old takes away the ability to blame someone when things go wrong.
However, some sort of support could be offered in the form of:
1. If flashing your device to the original ROM it came with doesn't fix the problem then the issue is 99% of the time hardware related. Call HTC for warranty service, within 1 year of course.
2. I bricked my phone, bootloader doesn't work thus I can't flash it. Same warranty applies.
Anything else is customer's fault, you're on your own.
Of course this could only work with GSM or rather SIM enabled devices. ESN based devices couldn't be part of this venture. Don't know about other CDMA countries out there, but at least in the US Sprint will CATEGORICALLY REFUSE to register an ESN that is not in their database, whereas Verizon will, but you've got to sweet talk the store manager.
Still, even with these little clauses this whole thing is a huge class action lawsuit just waiting to happen.
Although this would be grate for us, as far as the commercial parties are concerned there is a ton of problems with this idea:
a) HTC pays M$ for every copy of WM based on the components they include.
So you still can't legally cook your own ROM.
b) This would get HTC in trouble with every brand and telco they deal with.
c) This will significantly prolong the life of the devices and reduce profits for HTC.
d) xda-dev is not a commercial body and is in no position (I am stating this from what I know of the site, official comment is left to the management) to make any official order for HTC to even consider.
But the project you describe already exists, it just does not run M$ crap:
www.openmoko.com
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-WINDOWS-MOB...ryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
??
about: sale
Dust2Dust said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-WINDOWS-MOB...ryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
??
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What???????????, thats is very bad, Dutty send a email to the ebay Listing Violations. this is the link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/index_4.html?tier0=report_listing.js&item=290229506456
This seller need to stop sell your rom, you do all the hard work and they make money for your work.
It cant be stopped... Its crap but true...
All5tars said:
It cant be stopped... Its crap but true...
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Please elaborate.
It makes me sick, if you look at this guys ebay postings he is almost exclusively selling other people's "free" software.
Now, legally he could sell a service...say helping you install Dutty's on your phone, but I believe that is against ebay policy (selling a service).
Dutty please write to ebay...this guy has apparently had postings removed in the past. Make sure you point that out as well as ALL the software he is selling like yours...the more you can offer the better a case you will have.
Once you write to them and get some feedback, let us know. I think all of us that are ebay members should also write on your behalf (referencing your case ID).
Another thing you can do is to contact high-bidders and winners and let them know what he is doing.
While it may be an arduous process people like this need to be stopped.
I just sent a report violation on ebay claiming it was an OEM violation (since he states he is selling the "official HTC" ROM). I followed it up with this e-mail:
I have just sent in a report for item# 290229506456
It should be removed because it violated ebays policies regarding OEM infringement listed here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/oem.html
This user is selling a copy of Operating System software that is from HTC (OEM) and is legally only available if you have purchased an HTC TyTn II device.
In addition, this user has been selling many products on ebay that are verions of software developed by others and distributed as "free ware" on the internet community.
In fact, this user appears to make a tidy profit to the unwitting public selling the work of others that even it's original authors do not charge for.
I would appreciate if you remove this listing and review all of the user's auctions for similar infringements.
It appears this user has been cautioned in the past and continues to violate these policies.
Thank you.
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Click to collapse
I would encourage other user's to do the same. Feel free to use my e-mail. although please modify it slightly.
This is horrible. That person is the scum of the universe. This guy is a sick and shallow individual. Making money off of other people's hard work is just wrong.
there is a member with the exact same username
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=693931
Instead of saying its OEM... why not tell eBay its 'warez'. They take that much more seriously...
hm, not a bad idea, I think I'm gonna grab all the ROMs on XDA and start selling them on ebay to ****@$$ for $$$$$.
dfellars77 said:
Instead of saying its OEM... why not tell eBay its 'warez'. They take that much more seriously...
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Becuase technically I don't believe it is "WAREZ" it is not software that can be obtained through retail channels. No where can you go out and "buy" a ROM. In addiiton, the user doesn't claim he is selling a special hacked ROM, he claims he is selling the official HTC one.
shazaani said:
This is horrible. That person is the scum of the universe. This guy is a sick and shallow individual. Making money off of other people's hard work is just wrong.
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Click to collapse
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's not. Because Dutty provides it for free and allows people to make a contribution. He takes the work and improves it with his own hard, he's not charging you for someone elses work, or even for his own work.
This guy on ebay is getting paid by saying it's his work when it's clearly clearly not.
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off...Dutty doesn't SELL his ROM or REQUIRE payment. He accepts donations, that's all. Same with all the other chef's
Secondly, this guy isn't doing the exact same thing...he is not cooking his own ROM and selling it. He is selling DUTTY's ROM...the pictures and descriptions are identical.
In addition, even Dutty selling his cooked ROM would be illegal both by HTC's standards and by eBay's because it is copyright infringement since, as you correctly stated, these aren't being written from scratch, or rather written at all. They are just conglomerations of other's files (90% HTC, 10% 3rd party apps, many of which are "free").
Septastrum said:
He's not. Because Dutty provides it for free and allows people to make a contribution. He takes the work and improves it with his own hard, he's not charging you for someone elses work, or even for his own work.
This guy on ebay is getting paid by saying it's his work when it's clearly clearly not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed the point: The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks. The original manufacturers don't want Dutty, et al, doing it REGARDLESS of whether it's a tip or a donation or not.
It would likely bother you regardless of whether he claimed it as his work or not. Besides, I didn't see that he claimed that it was his work in that eBay listing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=693931
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=290229506456&Category=38331&_trksid=p3907.m29
same guy
IP BANNNNN
Originally Posted by rush242
It would likely bother you regardless of whether he claimed it as his work or not. Besides, I didn't see that he claimed that it was his work in that eBay listing.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-UPGRADE-T-MOBILE-MDA-HTC-WIZARD-WINDOWS-MOBILE-6_W0QQitemZ290229506911QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
here you go
bengalih said:
First off...Dutty doesn't SELL his ROM or REQUIRE payment. He accepts donations, that's all. Same with all the other chef's
Secondly, this guy isn't doing the exact same thing...he is not cooking his own ROM and selling it. He is selling DUTTY's ROM...the pictures and descriptions are identical.
In addition, even Dutty selling his cooked ROM would be illegal both by HTC's standards and by eBay's because it is copyright infringement since, as you correctly stated, these aren't being written from scratch, or rather written at all. They are just conglomerations of other's files (90% HTC, 10% 3rd party apps, many of which are "free").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again: The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is selling what Dutty gave away for free. As was discussed earlier in Olipof's thread, it doesn't matter whether that is a book, a can of redbull, or a modified ROM. Once you've let it out of your control, what others do with it is their own business--no matter what you happen to think about it.
azn_flip said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WM6-UPGRADE-T-MOBILE-MDA-HTC-WIZARD-WINDOWS-MOBILE-6_W0QQitemZ290229506911QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
here you go
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a different listing that states: "i worked really hard to provide this to you...." which is ambiguous at best. He may have worked really hard to provide it to someone. He does not claim that he wrote it.
Which, of course, could be construed as being misleading. But that really isn't the point. These listings would bother a lot of you REGARDLESS of what he says or doesn't say.
Least We All Be Hippocrates
rush242 said:
Oh yeah, because Dutty hasn't made a dime from all these ROMs.
I mean, I never got the idea he wrote them from scratch either.
The point being that generally ALL of the chefs here take someone else's work (HTC, OEM, et cetera), and do whatever they want with it, regardless of what that original entity wants or thinks.
This guy is doing the exact same thing whether you happen to like it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No doubt, and it won't stop us from sending donations to those who whip together the ROMS we all love.
Anybody hacking together code found on the web knows that he isn't in a ownership position, he is just having fun and can't expect to have any ownership over MS or HTC or 3rd party aps because he played DJ and mixed them together.
I make donations based on the labor cooks put in researching, mixing, testing and sharing and that will not change because someone is willing to help the Luddites finally get that god-awful factory ROM off their freaking phone.
I have mad respect for Dutty and and at the rate he pumps out ROMS I don't think that it is any sweat off his back that someone is using one of his zillion old ROMs to help people have better cellular experiences.
My recommendation is that we do what HTC and MS are kind enough to do with us (and that auction on ebay) IGNORE IT!
Stop Snitching!
If you guys really wanna play police and go stop people from doing what you do then I really ask you to stop a minute and think about what it would be like if this was all shut down because MS and HTC had someone writing letters complaining that we are ignoring their REALLY ENFORCEABLE copyright.
As the old saying goes: "May he without sin cast the first stone."
I'm not sure of the legality of selling Microsoft software (that was customized). It is like selling Vista for $5 and saying: "I changed the theme for you and it was very hard to do", but it is even worse because the theme was changed by someone else.
XDA should find someone savvy to research common licenses and burn in warnings to people at first startup saying that if they paid for it, they got hosed.
edit: Good point, but it is still very different. Microsoft is not going to waste resources to stop XDA from doing something harmless and then asking for donations. We are pointing out the fact that he is demanding payment.
MobileCrunch are reporting that HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action for distributing ROMs.
http://ongoingissues.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/htc-threatens-handset-hackers-with-legal-action/
maybe we, the community should build a list of user, a signature of opposing people to the closure of the site. stating that the use of the ROMs is for the purpose of cooking our own ROMs and increase the usability, performance, and desirability of the HTC handsets.
Maybe HTC need to be made aware of how much their customer base relys on ROMs for development of the HTC Handsets, and possibly go as far as to list who wouldn't buy a handset without access to other ROMs.
If Froyo doesn't come to the Desire, I WILL be installing a modified ROM regardless of HTCs feelings, and if this becomes impossible, I WILL be changing to a different brand and boycott HTC from then on. I feel very strongly about the users right to modify their phone in any way they see fit.
I dont even use the roms but i appreciate the work and effort put into them on the chance that i might use them. I also love HTC hardware because of the huge communities developed and bought my Touch Pro 2 based on the outside support that exists and if it were to get taken down by HTC i would second guess my next purchase of a Touch Pro 3 (i know it doesnt exist but something along the lines).
And as far as recommendations of hardware this site alone has swayed alot of coworkers into buying HTC hardware knowing they can tweak there purchase if the need arises.
As a matter of fact, I am now using the HTC support contact form to tell them how wrong they are in promoting this action.
The main reason because of which I didn't buy a iloserphone but chose a WM device is that I can play with it as much as I want.
In that letter it also specifically says "...or of all infringing works derived from the Intellectual Property", which means basically CUSTOM roms, the ones we're all using.
First comes shipped-roms.com, then will be the turn of XDA which hosts links to said custom roms and/or stock roms, same goes for htcpedia and everything else.
If they want to shut themselves down by making their users hate their devices, their choice, but probably we ought to let them know they're just being stupid.
Here's the message I sent them via their website, I encourage you to write them in the big numbers.
Hi.
I am the happy owner of a HD2, and I really am satisfied this device. One of the reasons I am satisfied is because of its hardware specs, the other maybe more important one is that I can actually change the way it works to perfectly suit my needs. Otherwise, I could very well dump it for an iphone.
Now, I know that the person reading this message will be a support employee, and by no means anyone who actually makes the decisions, yet I stringly encourage you to forward this mail to the upper levels.
I just learned that HTC sent a C&D letter to shipped-roms.com.
I know the legal mumbo-jumbo HTC is all about on that decision and I don't need any of that.
I also know another thing: excluding the people who buy your devices just because they were bundled with some dataplan by some carrier, and have no clue how to really use them other than as simple phones, there is a LARGE part of people, including myself, who buy your devices because they like the way they can be customized and how they can be made so much more powerful than what they came out of the store.
If you start acting against websites that allow us "power users" to get the most out of our phones, then it's like you're acting against your customers, and that is a very silly thing.
I can easily see how this kind of action could be taken further, against other leading community websites dedicated to your devices.
If and when you will do that, you will repay the dedication of your customers with legal threats, and you will instantly lose the interest in your products by the same people that now love them for the reasons I explained in this letter.
Please think carefully about it.
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ephestione said:
As a matter of fact, I am now using the HTC support contact form to tell them how wrong they are in promoting this action...
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Thanks! I'm doing the same right now. Apple is not a loser in the game, they dont shut down websites of so-called "hackers" who tweak, crack and write programs which jailbreak their iPhone, and they could just do it, they have plenty of reason to do it BUT only one NOT to do it: $!
I told you, Apple is not so stupid... unlike HTC who shoots itself in the head!(hoping the damages will be soft?) Really silly...
Edit: here's mine:
It recently came to my knowledge that HTC sent a C&D letter to the website shipped-roms.com and if this is true, and you are serious about it, please do re-consider your decision. As a proud owner of an UNBRANDED HTC HD2, HTC BLACKSTONE AND HTC DIAMOND 2, I am asking you to not bother the core of your business: without the shipped roms and the subsequent custom roms from it, I, just like hundreds of thousands of HTC owners around the world (just look at the membership of various forums offering custom roms), would not have bought an HTC device. Why we did buy it was the possibility to modify it to fit our needs, this includes by the means of custom roms too, but not only. If you take this from us, you're left with the "carriers dependant" customers who are, by far, the minority of your customers. If you're serious in taking down websites that make us buy your devices, you will have to face the consequences because without shipped rom, we will just jump ship! As you already know, the competition is tough so you better think this legal action twice if you don't want the value of your shares to melt like snow at the beginning of spring.
I have no words about what HTC is doing. I totally agree with ephestione, and if xda-developers did not exist (or any other similar forum), I would not have an WM Smartphone, as the stock ROMs are normally slow, many times out dated, and not suited for my needs.
I hope that HTC understands that sites like these are the BEST PUBLICITY that they can get fro their devices. You have people working for FREE to make the device better, what else can they ask for?
Instead of promoting, cooperating with the main chefs, and using it to their advantage, they prefer to drag them to the court, and shut them down!!!!
They already void your guarantee when you flash a custom ROM, so I can't see how initiatives like this can cost them more money.
I hope they realize that soon, and save their faces by gracefully changing their position.
I do not say, approve, but at least look the other way
I hope more people will join this cause.
Android is opensource so remove all htc apps in ROM and host htc apps @ mediafire
I Support you if its possible. How about a open letter to htc in Taiwan? I can write a letter as PDF and share it here.
Maybe we should download all of those ROMS an reupload the on a sharehoster only to start a thread with the collection of links over here? Or Maybe a thread in every Device-specific forum?
Thoughts? Want to participate?
How dumb are HTC?
It is the ability to use cooked roms that has helped me tolerate the flaws in WM over the years.
Without the offending roms I would have stopped buying HTC phones years ago. IMHO they should be encouraging the chefs.
They've gone all APPLE!!!
If they persist with this I might as well buy an i-prat and just jailbreak it.
Although slightly off topic I see the WM7 wont allow Sense etc, will HTC still be on their hobby horse. (from what I have read elsewhere it was people messing with sense that p1$$ed them off).
Can some one Post the E-Mail Address /Contact to take my part (and hopefully others) in this ridicules process?
I want to tell them how stupid that is...
Maybe I should switch over to IPhone... if you can't customize it at least works better out of the box!
Dino Crisis said:
Can some one Post the E-Mail Address /Contact to take my part (and hopefully others) in this ridicules process?
I want to tell them how stupid that is...
Maybe I should switch over to IPhone... if you can't customize it at least works better out of the box!
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http://www.htc.com/www/CS_Mail.aspx
Germany Deutsch +49-692-222-7334
Mon - Sat 09:00 - 18:00 (Mon - Fri) 09:00 - 13:00 (Sat)
upload all ROM's to multiupload.com
but my upload speed sucks
acky85 said:
http://www.htc.com/www/CS_Mail.aspx
Germany Deutsch +49-692-222-7334
Mon - Sat 09:00 - 18:00 (Mon - Fri) 09:00 - 13:00 (Sat)
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Thanks
Have sent email....
what do you send? can i use ur text? My english sucks
another site where I posted a modified version of ephestiones letter (thanks for that!) is http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
EMail addresses I found are
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
HTH, Franky
No cooks, no buy
I wouldn't have bought my HTC Rhodium if there weren't custom ROMs available for it. None of the stock HTC ROMs are any good compared to custom ROMs. HTC should thank the chefs for taking their half finished ROMs and making them usable, because it's the chefs who are helping HTC to sell more phones.
That's one hell of a shot in the foot you've got there...
[RANT] This has to be without doubt one of the daftest actions HTC have ever taken against anyone...
"Hello loyal customers....... We'd like you to go to jail please! "
I heartly agree with everyone on here so far, the main reason I bought my HD2 was because of the custom ROMs on here. (Infact it got reflashed before I even put the SIM in! )
I steer clear of everything Apple because I like to be able to customise what I want, how I want. If HTC are getting all edgy because they're promoting diversity, then they should jump in the iBandwagon and I'll go back to using my Nokia.
I can say with 100% truth, if it wasn't for XDA-Dev's I wouldn't have had 6 HTC's by now. [/RANT]
Dear HTC, as a legal and loyal owner of multiple HTC devices (Vodafone magic x2, Telstra desire, Telstra hd2 and Vodafone legend) I am entitled to download any updates for these devices. As such I would like shipped-roms.com to maintain my copy for safe keeping. Seeing as you do not maintain a public copy of historical roms for unsupported devices I believe this is a suitable compromise. Also this way there is no cost to your company.
If wish to continue on this misguided attack I will dispose of these devices, buy a competitors product and never buy or recommend your product to anyone.
Yours Sincerely,
JJ
They have a forum too
HTC's official site has a forum too.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/f/87.aspx
Check the forum before posting, make sure you pick the right place for your country or maybe we can all post in the same forum. Also, if we do let's just keep a single thread over at their forums. No sense in flooding them, that will just get the threads deleted.
I hope HTC has more sense(pun intended) than to lose distinction between piracy and a huge group of fans that can only benefit them.
I am on my 5th WM HTC device and it is basically because of you guys that I have kept on going with them. I can't imagine having all this fun tweaking, prodding, and modifying any other phones.
Android should be safe... but...
This really does suck. From my understanding and previous history with scrappy unsupported phones from other OEMs, even if I did stick to WM, I would have gone out of my way to get an HTC phone, because of this site and the work that gets done here.
Fortunately, I went with a Nexus One running android so aside from the appropriated Desire keyboard, there really isn't anything that's HTC specific app wise. Also tack on the fact that Android is covered by GPL if I'm not mistaken so that should shield at least the Android development hacks. But who knows really. It could also be a licensing issue with WM specifically that may have triggered this. WM licensing is something truly weird as none of it is really visible to the end user and is usually agreed upon between OEM and carrier.
I just hope this doesn't spread to here. XDA is the central hub of making smartphones actually smart.