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Mi note 10 vs pro

Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks

You will be blown by the photos you take with the normal version so you don't need to buy the pro version 6GB ram and 128GB Storage is enough for everything from gaming to taking photos, browsing and anything i can say.

No I really don't care about the more RAM and Rom. Just curious about the photos only!

I ordered the Pro. Should arrive next week. Frankie Tech on youtube will upload a camera comparison of the two very soon.

cycloholic said:
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amount of lens group doesnt mean you can capture more light. Extra lens is used for correcting distortion, color aberration etc. The apperture itself is the same pro or not pro. So it should be able to capture same amount of light.
in daily usage, difference in camera result will be minor

Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro

Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?

Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
adira.mardiani said:
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
For more details about how sensor size affecting focus area :
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm

otonieru said:
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...

Kasallamacher said:
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i wrote above,
The extra lens definitely not for lol. Extra lens element is used for variety of reasons, mostly to correct distortion and color aberration. But definitely not for extra light reasons.

Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually in a Lens group, more len can capture more light is true.
for example, 8p lens maybe capture 99.5% of light, but 7p lens maybe only 99.2%.
The different is not big.
But "more light" is not the major benefit.
Usually more lens may correct the image better to fit the sensor.

Mi note 10 pro has problem focusing
otonieru said:
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi otonieru
I appreciate you explaining the relationship between sensor size and depth of field.
My new note 10 pro main camera seems to have trouble focusing even in good day light, it repeatedly focuses on the background instead of the person i want to photograph, even though i physically tap the person's face on screen. The 5x camera focuses fine though.
Do you think this is a hardware or software issue?
Many thanks!

Differencea between 8p / 7p lenses

Hi everyone,
As the name of the thread, can someone explain the difference between the two types of Lens group?
8p are only on pro version
7p on normale mi note 10
Reading some info in the web, there s a lot of confusion about this:
some say that 8p can capture more light than 7p, but it is something that I don't think because the sensitivity to light is determined by the sensor itself and by the aperture (f1.7 on both), not by the lenses.
some others say that the images are sharper on the 8p, and it's another thing I don't believe in, unless the quality of the lenses themselves, regardless of their number, is lower on the 7p. And i don t think so
I think instead that this famous extra lens on the pro version has been inserted to correct the strong distortion at the edges of the image that is encountered on the standard version.
below I insert a link (the only comparison I have found) where both models are compared. even the result of the mi note 10 standard is described as sharper!?
but it is difficult to evaluate because none of the photos in this video are enlarged enough to find out if it is true.
Maybe with a link of full res images....
https://youtu.be/ncnnFrdw50M
I'd be happy to know what you think, and if anyone here is an expert in these techniques (I'm sure that's the case) they can also provide some further explanation regarding this difference.
thank you all,
merry christmas and happy day

As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.

I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light

oooooh a competent person that provides reliable and scientific information. it is always a satisfaction to receive this type of feedback!
so how, using logic, I thought ... the improvement from 7p to 8p is not on the sharpness, contrast or brightness of the photo, but on the various chromatic imperfections that can be found in the saved shot.
moreover, things that can be easily corrected with lrm, i think.
thank you!

carlosml1 said:
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! Can you upload some samples of both devices please?

otonieru said:
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so do you think that the 8p pro version has more sharpness in the shots against the 7p version? I m quite thinking ti sell mine and buy the pro but i don t understand if the img quality in terms of sharpness exists.

left my note 10 right my note 10 pro

carlosml1 said:
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?

mezza8512 said:
very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here

carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sharpness at the center of the image Better on pro, or Is the same in the two versions?

carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please can you post a link with full res images of both devices in some conditions? Daylight, interior and low light of both devices ... Thank you

Ok now i have both versions and i can directly compare the difference.
first, I notice a larger area of focus, it seems that this additional lens gives a better direction to the light and to the ability to focus. this is also noticeable when taking a photo at night, in a street with public lighting, and the rings around the light are much more concentrated and less widespread than on the standard version.
there is also a better dynamic range, with more details in the dark areas, especially in the low light shots.
another interesting thing is the software, because it is not the same as the standard version. the differences are minimal, but I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
the images are less "soft" and more processed by the sw.
different speech in the photos of the interior and on the photos to people, where the pro version works better getting better details and faster and more precise focus.
ultimately, the differences are not in favor of one version rather than the other, but in a different way of interpreting the scene.
0.6 x, macro, 2 x, 5x are the same, while from 10x up there is a better detail because the interpolation of the main sensor intervenes, which thanks to better optics, guarantees better details.
verdict:
Is 8p better than 7p?
yes, but only if you want to take photos at "pedal to the metal" of the search for detail and the final result after post production.
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!

mezza8512 said:
...
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?

A Minh said:
Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry my friend but i sold both mi note 10 long time ago

mezza8512 said:
I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, sorry for bringing this so late, but I'm interesting in this phones. It's not clear to me which version above has higher JPEG compression? I assume it's the Mi Note 10 (not Pro)? It wouldn't make much sense the other way around. Also, which one has higher contrast and over-sharpening - Pro or non-Pro?
I know you probably don't remember it now, but it's worth a shot to ask.

Camera OIS/sharpness?

Hi folks,
I am presently playing around with my P40 Pro, especially the camera as this is of special interest for me.
I am comparing with a Oneplus 8 Pro.
What I noticed is that the P40 Pro camera is giving a lot more blurred images at medium to lower lighting, in fact it's surprisingly diffcult for me to get a sharp indoor shot.
This is on .122 Firmware and I am bit at a loss on how to tackle this, in fact it's a bit disappointing for such a hyped camera.
Isn't the P40 pro camera supposed to have OIS?
And this is with very comparable aperture and shutter speed between OP8P and P40P...
Am I the only one? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Axel

Are you using Google services?

Noexcusses said:
Are you using Google services?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?

What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur? Motion blur is caused by slower shutter speed. Focus blur by focus failure. There is also blur(bokeh) caused by much bigger camera sensor used in P40 PRO. So depending what your subject is you may experience different results. Longer shutter speed and lower ISO is preferred for best image quality as long as you have static scene. But in scene with moving object, object in motion can be blurred. Personally I am on .121 and I rarely get blured photo due to any phenomena described above.

D1G1TE said:
What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it seems like motion blur from camera shake... But images at around 1/30s with OIS should normally be fine - at least they are on the other handsets I tried...
This is why I am asking, maybe OIS is not working... Anybody got an idea to test this with some tool?

Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case

TomFordGoesForth said:
Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that's my fear.... Well, I am still within the return period, maybe it makes sense to go back to the dealer instead...

EDIT: seems a factory reset fixed it, now I need to discuss with myself whether I try to go without Google for the time being....

s3axel said:
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..

Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very interesting, would you mind sharing your findings/theory ?

Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though

Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services...
This installing method on Google services witch you need to go on apps and delete playstore etc i think is the keys for the problem... We need a clean installation without deletations..

s3axel said:
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
Observation about the lines in the foto. Lines are reflections from lights. I realised it today. Im testing camera without Google services. Tomorrow i will test on daylight.. I think 121 update is bad update.. is there any way to roal back to 112?

Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update

Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for checking this out, then I am a bit reassured
Hopefully this is fixed with a near term update because this really sucks!
Don't know I rolling back is possible,will need to investigate a bit more....

Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also disappointed with this update (121) pics quality is average but video quality is lower than on p20 pro.
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.

Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Erm ... I don't see anything wrong with that picture.
You focused on the closed petal at the left side, it's perfectly sharp, rest blurred as it should be. Not the prettiest bokeh, but okay.
Do I overlook something?
---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------
Noexcusses said:
Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I don't see what's wrong with that picture. Maybe you could point out the problem a bit more in detail?
It would also be quite helpful for sorting out culprits if you (and anyone else) accompany your pictures with some EXIF data, like shooting mode, AI on/off, ISO, exposure, aperture and zoom factor. Unfortunately, XDA seems to remove that data from posted pictures.
---------- Post added at 07:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------
forever_lol said:
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's indeed the case with firmware .121. And it's far worse in the "Pro" mode, rendering "Pro" mode almost useless.
Let's hope the next updates home in on that fault.

Look the sharpness on 112 version

Noexcusses said:
Look the sharpness on 112 version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.

Klosterbruder said:
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jeasus Christ i never used 50 mp sesnor i use the normal sensor for the red flower and also same sensor with pink flower... im changing so many phones every year and i can clearly understand what a foto needs! P40 pro with 122 version is less detailed on normal shots than with 112 , i need t use night mode on day light fotos to get some sharpness..
Also the foto you have posted there is no detailed at all i can taje same photo with my xiaomi mia 3 Stock camera apk... and i can get also much better shots withy GCAM on mia 3!

Question Photo's corners softness

Hello, is the softness/blur normal at the corners or it is a defect?

Optical limits of the lense.
All lens have a blur profile and are not equal across their fov especially in the corners.

blackhawk said:
Optical limits of the lense.
All lens have a blur profile and are not equal across their fov especially in the corners.
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Click to collapse
I saw some S21 Ultra without that softness. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9934/YEfbPF.jpg

Sigray said:
I saw some S21 Ultra without that softness. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9934/YEfbPF.jpg
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Click to collapse
I can see some corner blurring in the link shot, normal.
Brace the cam before shooting test shots so there's zero cam shake, use the spen bt as a remote shutter release. The cam's IS may be at play here.
If you look at blur charts for Canon L lens costing thousands of dollars you'll see similar results especially wide angle lens. Blur is a problem when it's not sharp near the center even by a small amount.
You can return it. No guarantee the next one won't have a worse blur profile though.

Vote please

I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.

Here is a Pixel 6 Pro shot
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8993/5wgHnY.jpg

brachiopod said:
I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.
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Click to collapse
I saw a 22U where the softness didnt visible at the corners...So I think there are some better quality lens in s22U phones. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/448/7VEHLp.jpg
Strange I cant see the softness here on my Ultra's shot :

Sigray said:
I saw a 22U where the softness didnt visible at the corners...So I think there are some better quality lens in s22U phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple image isn't a proper blur test.
All lens have corner blur to some extent and this isn't a high dollar lense by any stretch of the imagination.
Here's how a wide angle high dollar prime lense for a full frame sensor stacks up.
A interactive blur chart for a Canon L lense:
Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM - Blur Lab Test Result - Sub-frame
This len's sweet spot is at f/5.6
Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Review
Looking for a Canon 14mm lens review? Read on to find out what we uncovered in our objective optical lab tests.
www.imaging-resource.com
Notice how some corners have less blur. No single or compound lense is perfect. Blur is only one optical considerations of the many optical properties of a lense system

brachiopod said:
I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8206/4y0xUm.jpg

Sigray said:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8206/4y0xUm.jpg
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This is normal. You aren't aware of it but there's a subtle blur pattern across the whole image.
Blur is always present to a greater or lesser extent.
All lens have this. There is no perfect optical system.

blackhawk said:
This is normal. You aren't aware of it but there's a subtle blur pattern across the whole image.
Blur is always present to a greater or lesser extent.
All lens have this. There is no perfect optical system.
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Click to collapse
I noticed something strange.. if the corners are softer the middle of the photos almost perfect. If the corners are fine there are a lot of random blurred area on the shots. I think the corners softness is "better
So I can keep the phone if Im right.

Sigray said:
I noticed something strange.. if the corners are softer the middle of the photos almost perfect. If the corners are fine there are a lot of random blurred area on the shots. I think the corners softness is "better
So I can keep the phone if Im right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A typical blur pattern.
The way you grade blur is by center sharpness, how far it extends and the evenness of the blur pattern. Unless you're looking for it, it blends right in. If it really bugs you, crop it out.
The worst spot for blur is dead center, hard to work around a soft lense...

blackhawk said:
A typical blur pattern.
The way you grade blur is by center sharpness, how far it extends and the evenness of the blur pattern. Unless you're looking for it, it blends right in. If it really bugs you, crop it out.
The worst spot for blur is dead center, hard to work around a soft lense...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the opinions/suggestions! (Sorry I have a problem with the original account login)

Sigray1977 said:
Thanks for the opinions/suggestions! (Sorry I have a problem with the original account login)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome.
Contact a mod to fix the account issue.

blackhawk said:
You're welcome.
Contact a mod to fix the account issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok

Question Is it normal or not ?

Hello everybody,
I just bought a used S22 ultra wich is in mint condition. But i immediatly see that picture quality was ... BAD. Especially with the main lens. I got blurry areas accros the pic, strong artifacts and noise. I took the same pic with my old S20, and the quality is better !!
I just want to ask you what you think. Is there a problem or not?
I already did a factory reset... but it does not help.
Seriously, the quality is bad, the grass at the bottom and relatively blurry on the s22 while on the s20 the quality is consistent.
As well as the whole left side of the picture.
Thanks for you feed back.

Poor test subject. Try a picket fence or brick house instead. Something the wind can't move.

ribariba said:
Hello everybody,
I just bought a used S22 ultra wich is in mint condition. But i immediatly see that picture quality was ... BAD. Especially with the main lens. I got blurry areas accros the pic, strong artifacts and noise. I took the same pic with my old S20, and the quality is better !!
I just want to ask you what you think. Is there a problem or not?
I already did a factory reset... but it does not help.
Seriously, the quality is bad, the grass at the bottom and relatively blurry on the s22 while on the s20 the quality is consistent.
As well as the whole left side of the picture.
Thanks for you feed back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said that it is used. Did you buy it from somebody directly or from a store?
What camera mode were you using? If you haven't already , download and install Expert RAW from the Galaxy Store.
I'll take a few and upload so we can compare.

Here are a few shots to compare.
The first pair were taken with the camera in Photo Mode
20220610_130433.jpg
20220610_130439.jpg
The second pair were taken with the camera in Pro Mode
20220610_130453.jpg
20220610_130459.jpg
The third pair were taken using Expert RAW
20220610_130533.jpg
20220610_130538.jpg

blackhawk said:
Poor test subject. Try a picket fence or brick house instead. Something the wind can't move.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know that the S22 ultra was only capable of capturing still subjects. However, I obviously compared several photographs and not only this one. This is an example.

gernerttl said:
Here are a few shots to compare.
The first pair were taken with the camera in Photo Mode
20220610_130433.jpg
20220610_130439.jpg
The second pair were taken with the camera in Pro Mode
20220610_130453.jpg
20220610_130459.jpg
The third pair were taken using Expert RAW
20220610_130533.jpg
20220610_130538.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. Thank you for your photographs. I can still see that yours seem more homogeneous and consistent in terms of quality than mine.
I tried with the "pro" mode as well as with "Expert Raw", there is a minimal difference.
On the other hand, I should perhaps specify that I use an S22 ultra with the EXYNOS chip and not SNAPDRAGON. What about you?
So according to you, it is not obvious that there is a problem?

ribariba said:
Ok. Thank you for your photographs. I can still see that yours seem more homogeneous and consistent in terms of quality than mine.
I tried with the "pro" mode as well as with "Expert Raw", there is a minimal difference.
On the other hand, I should perhaps specify that I use an S22 ultra with the EXYNOS chip and not SNAPDRAGON. What about you?
So according to you, it is not obvious that there is a problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At first glance, not really. If I zoom in enough, then yes.
The S22 Ultra is a really good phone. Ultimately, it is your decision whether you are happy with it. Keep in mind that Samsung sends out monthly updates. It's not uncommon for it to update the camera during these updates. I received updates for the Camera and Expert RAW apps. Also, Android 13 work OneUI 5 will be released later this year or early next year. That will come with camera improvements.
I have the S22 Ultra Snap Dragon. There are some differences with the cameras.
S22 Ultra Snapdragon vs Exynos: do you really get different cameras?
The Galaxy S22 Ultra might be the best camera phone around, but... which model are you exactly talking about? The Snapdragon US version actually captures different photos than the Exynos model in the rest of the world...
www.phonearena.com
I'm not sure if it's enough to worry about. I think it's more of a software processing difference rather than a hardware difference.

ribariba said:
I didn't know that the S22 ultra was only capable of capturing still subjects. However, I obviously compared several photographs and not only this one. This is an example.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motion blurring from the wind...
Straight high contrast lines instead of rocks
Faces with AF lock on closest eye. Skin tone should be true; leaves don't show this.

ribariba said:
Ok. Thank you for your photographs. I can still see that yours seem more homogeneous and consistent in terms of quality than mine.
I tried with the "pro" mode as well as with "Expert Raw", there is a minimal difference.
On the other hand, I should perhaps specify that I use an S22 ultra with the EXYNOS chip and not SNAPDRAGON. What about you?
So according to you, it is not obvious that there is a problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of updates. Have you gotten the latest update?
Galaxy S22 series gets camera improvements with latest software update
The Galaxy S22 series latest software update (June) brings hidden camera improvements!
www.phonearena.com
Part of it was an update for the camera and fixes some of the issues you are experiencing.

ribariba said:
I just want to ask you what you think. Is there a problem or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say maybe.
Most of the users would not care or see what you have identified, but I do agree it does not look ok for a >$1000 camera phone.
Some variation in lens quality or (mis)alignment is normal and it depends on you if you accept it or replace it. Be aware that this phone has 5 single cameras, so if you exchange the phone, one camera might be better, but others might be worse. On the other hand, it is the main camera, you identified it and now never will be happy, so I think you should take into account to try to exchange it.
Please share some more comparisons to make it more clear how significant this issue is.
gernerttl said:
Speaking of updates. Have you gotten the latest update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In his example picture the AVF1 is listed.

Thank you all for your answers and opinions.
I took several "test photos" this morning. Frankly it's disappointing.
Indeed, as indicated, I have the last update of June.
My problem is a consistency problem, some areas are blurred and others are sharp. And I think that no update will change anything, it is a hardware problem.
I place here a photograph where this is particularly noticeable. I circle the sharp areas. Seriously, the problem is obvious, right?

I had to look few times to perceive the problem. As I'm not that interested, generally, in taking photos then to me the problem/issue is negligible. However, to you and anyone else I guess, who are more invested in taking photos then to them these imperfections are a problem

ribariba said:
Thank you all for your answers and opinions.
I took several "test photos" this morning. Frankly it's disappointing.
Indeed, as indicated, I have the last update of June.
My problem is a consistency problem, some areas are blurred and others are sharp. And I think that no update will change anything, it is a hardware problem.
I place here a photograph where this is particularly noticeable. I circle the sharp areas. Seriously, the problem is obvious, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The image isn't showing shooting settings.
Again... this is not the way to test lene blur. Use solid subjects that can't be move by the wind.
A lense blur chart is better.
All lens have a blur pattern that varies throughout their aperture range if any. If you got a bad copy, return it.

ribariba said:
Thank you all for your answers and opinions.
I took several "test photos" this morning. Frankly it's disappointing.
Indeed, as indicated, I have the last update of June.
My problem is a consistency problem, some areas are blurred and others are sharp. And I think that no update will change anything, it is a hardware problem.
I place here a photograph where this is particularly noticeable. I circle the sharp areas. Seriously, the problem is obvious, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said previously, at first glance I didn't see a problem. If I look closely, then, yes. It depends on what you are planning to do with the images. Most people will probably not see, nor care about the noise and over processing (which is what is causing a lack of sharpness).
If you intend to make prints any larger than 4x6, then yes it could be a problem.
It is not a problem of the camera hardware. Both the Exynos and SD S22 Ultras have the same camera hardware. The area that you circled is an area of high contrast and lighting differences. As the article I posted stated, the Exynos powered phones struggle with dynamic range, low light areas, and tend to over process the images. That is exactly what is happening in the images you provided.
Because Exynos chips have different architecture, the software is different. It's not a problem of the camera hardware, it is a problem of how the software processes the data to render the photo. Samsung has to tweak its Camera and Expert RAW apps to work better with the Exynos processor.
If you shoot with Expert RAW or in Pro mode, then process the RAW file (.dng) using Lightroom or Gimp (which is free), you will probably see an improvement.
Ultimately, it is up to you whether you like the results you are getting from the camera. As the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

blackhawk said:
The image isn't showing shooting settings.
Again... this is not the way to test lene blur. Use solid subjects that can't be move by the wind.
A lense blur chart is better.
All lens have a blur pattern that varies throughout their aperture range if any. If you got a bad copy, return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that engineers don't set up cameras by taking nature shots. But I don't work at Samsung, I'm not an optician, I don't have all the tools to clearly establish the problem. I'm just trying to describe it to you.
Yes I think I have a defective phone, and it's not that easy to walk into a Samsung service center and tell them: replace this phone because it's defective!
And if I take pictures of grass trees it's because it's the easiest thing to take a picture of. This is what contains the most details to help define where the sharp and blurred areas are. But this problem has nothing to do with "motion blur"!

gernerttl said:
Like I said previously, at first glance I didn't see a problem. If I look closely, then, yes. It depends on what you are planning to do with the images. Most people will probably not see, nor care about the noise and over processing (which is what is causing a lack of sharpness).
If you intend to make prints any larger than 4x6, then yes it could be a problem.
It is not a problem of the camera hardware. Both the Exynos and SD S22 Ultras have the same camera hardware. The area that you circled is an area of high contrast and lighting differences. As the article I posted stated, the Exynos powered phones struggle with dynamic range, low light areas, and tend to over process the images. That is exactly what is happening in the images you provided.
Because Exynos chips have different architecture, the software is different. It's not a problem of the camera hardware, it is a problem of how the software processes the data to render the photo. Samsung has to tweak its Camera and Expert RAW apps to work better with the Exynos processor.
If you shoot with Expert RAW or in Pro mode, then process the RAW file (.dng) using Lightroom or Gimp (which is free), you will probably see an improvement.
Ultimately, it is up to you whether you like the results you are getting from the camera. As the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought this phone as the flagship phone from Samsung. They do a large advertising campaign around the performance of the camera. I take a lot of pictures and videos with my phones, and I have never encountered such poor quality. I know that the software part is not perfect and will get better with updates.
For me it is a hardware problem because I took the same pictures by rotating the phone 180° and the sharp and blurred areas were also rotated 180°, regardless of any other change in brightness or contrast. Moreover these "areas" are also present in the DNG files outside of any post processing.

ribariba said:
I know that engineers don't set up cameras by taking nature shots. But I don't work at Samsung, I'm not an optician, I don't have all the tools to clearly establish the problem. I'm just trying to describe it to you.
Yes I think I have a defective phone, and it's not that easy to walk into a Samsung service center and tell them: replace this phone because it's defective!
And if I take pictures of grass trees it's because it's the easiest thing to take a picture of. This is what contains the most details to help define where the sharp and blurred areas are. But this problem has nothing to do with "motion blur"!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download and use a blur chart. You need flat target surface.
Where is the AF lockon at?!! That's important.
AF lock on dead center of the blur chart.
If you want accurate results, at least try to do it right. You need good documentation especially if sending it in for repair.
Photography is filled with learning curves, no one knows everything, but the more you know the better. Plenty of Pro Shooter that are sharing their hard earned craft skills for free on various websites.
If within it's return period, do it. Getting Samsung to repair it will be tedious... you are now experiencing some of this.

ribariba said:
I bought this phone as the flagship phone from Samsung. They do a large advertising campaign around the performance of the camera. I take a lot of pictures and videos with my phones, and I have never encountered such poor quality. I know that the software part is not perfect and will get better with updates.
For me it is a hardware problem because I took the same pictures by rotating the phone 180° and the sharp and blurred areas were also rotated 180°, regardless of any other change in brightness or contrast. Moreover these "areas" are also present in the DNG files outside of any post processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read the article I posted about the differences between the SD and Exynos models? Camera orientation is irrelevant.
The camera hardware is not the problem. It is the processing after image capture that is causing the issues. The problems you point out are all in areas where there is significant lighting differences.
RAW image capture and post processing will reduce the issues; it won't completely alleviate them.
At any rate, if you are that dissatisfied with your phone, then return it.

gernerttl said:
Did you read the article I posted about the differences between the SD and Exynos models? Camera orientation is irrelevant.
The camera hardware is not the problem. It is the processing after image capture that is causing the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read his description:
ribariba said:
For me it is a hardware problem because I took the same pictures by rotating the phone 180° and the sharp and blurred areas were also rotated 180°...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the affected areas rotate, when the hardware is rotated, the effect is caused by hardware. It might be more or less visible depending on sharping algorithms, but I would not wait for software updates or hope to get better lenses in a Snapdragon variant. It is some kind of lottery, usually the more the bigger the sensors are if the rest of the hardware keeps its size.
blackhawk said:
If within it's return period, do it. Getting Samsung to repair it will be tedious... you are now experiencing some of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do so!

I am getting this kind of pic in nightmode on ultrawide lens in some cases, don't know what is the issue but it doesn't happen in normal low light shot or shot in expert raw app for the same scenes,can anyone help