Hi everyone,
As the name of the thread, can someone explain the difference between the two types of Lens group?
8p are only on pro version
7p on normale mi note 10
Reading some info in the web, there s a lot of confusion about this:
some say that 8p can capture more light than 7p, but it is something that I don't think because the sensitivity to light is determined by the sensor itself and by the aperture (f1.7 on both), not by the lenses.
some others say that the images are sharper on the 8p, and it's another thing I don't believe in, unless the quality of the lenses themselves, regardless of their number, is lower on the 7p. And i don t think so
I think instead that this famous extra lens on the pro version has been inserted to correct the strong distortion at the edges of the image that is encountered on the standard version.
below I insert a link (the only comparison I have found) where both models are compared. even the result of the mi note 10 standard is described as sharper!?
but it is difficult to evaluate because none of the photos in this video are enlarged enough to find out if it is true.
Maybe with a link of full res images....
https://youtu.be/ncnnFrdw50M
I'd be happy to know what you think, and if anyone here is an expert in these techniques (I'm sure that's the case) they can also provide some further explanation regarding this difference.
thank you all,
merry christmas and happy day
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
oooooh a competent person that provides reliable and scientific information. it is always a satisfaction to receive this type of feedback!
so how, using logic, I thought ... the improvement from 7p to 8p is not on the sharpness, contrast or brightness of the photo, but on the various chromatic imperfections that can be found in the saved shot.
moreover, things that can be easily corrected with lrm, i think.
thank you!
carlosml1 said:
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
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Thank you! Can you upload some samples of both devices please?
otonieru said:
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
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so do you think that the 8p pro version has more sharpness in the shots against the 7p version? I m quite thinking ti sell mine and buy the pro but i don t understand if the img quality in terms of sharpness exists.
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
carlosml1 said:
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
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very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
mezza8512 said:
very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
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Click to collapse
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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sharpness at the center of the image Better on pro, or Is the same in the two versions?
carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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please can you post a link with full res images of both devices in some conditions? Daylight, interior and low light of both devices ... Thank you
Ok now i have both versions and i can directly compare the difference.
first, I notice a larger area of focus, it seems that this additional lens gives a better direction to the light and to the ability to focus. this is also noticeable when taking a photo at night, in a street with public lighting, and the rings around the light are much more concentrated and less widespread than on the standard version.
there is also a better dynamic range, with more details in the dark areas, especially in the low light shots.
another interesting thing is the software, because it is not the same as the standard version. the differences are minimal, but I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
the images are less "soft" and more processed by the sw.
different speech in the photos of the interior and on the photos to people, where the pro version works better getting better details and faster and more precise focus.
ultimately, the differences are not in favor of one version rather than the other, but in a different way of interpreting the scene.
0.6 x, macro, 2 x, 5x are the same, while from 10x up there is a better detail because the interpolation of the main sensor intervenes, which thanks to better optics, guarantees better details.
verdict:
Is 8p better than 7p?
yes, but only if you want to take photos at "pedal to the metal" of the search for detail and the final result after post production.
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
mezza8512 said:
...
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
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Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
A Minh said:
Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
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Sorry my friend but i sold both mi note 10 long time ago
mezza8512 said:
I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
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Click to collapse
Hi, sorry for bringing this so late, but I'm interesting in this phones. It's not clear to me which version above has higher JPEG compression? I assume it's the Mi Note 10 (not Pro)? It wouldn't make much sense the other way around. Also, which one has higher contrast and over-sharpening - Pro or non-Pro?
I know you probably don't remember it now, but it's worth a shot to ask.
Related
Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so , has anyone found a way / .cab to allow the camera to store the picture in RAW format which enables postprocessing with sw like photoshop? Otherwise any tweaks / .cabs to patch the default JPEG & better noise reduction?
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
Hi
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
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That got me thinking, my full-sized camera is only 5 megs (a Nikon and had it a while) but takes absolutely stunning pictures.
It isn't the number of pixels reducing the quality, it is the quality of the optics. You can't expect much out of a lens the size of the one included in Topaz.
I don't think having a RAW output would help matters any.
Regards
Phil
Actually, sensor quality is the biggest issue here. Phone camera sensors are tiny and thus don't have the same image fidelity of sensors in dedicated cams. Sure, they're pulling 5MPs out like a point and shoot, but there's a lot less light sensitivity in them. Take the same shot with a cell phone and with a DSLR into an app like Adobe Lightroom and increse the brightness (not exposure). On the DSLR shot, you'd instantly see the extra detail come out of the shadows. On the cell phone shot, you'd see mostly noise and detail masked with noise.
On sensors this size, i doubt the lens would make much difference. The difference between plastic and glass (i believe) is mostly academic. About the best you could hope for is reduced chromatic abherration and flaring, but no manufacturer is going to waste the kind of money necessary to put pro-level or even prosumer glass on a phone, particularly one with a standard-sized sensor.
Also, try the demo version of Neat Image:
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html
It'll batch process up to two images. It's not a deep as the pro version, but it gets the job done.
I seem to be alone in liking the photo quality on the TD2! You need good lighting, and if you stick to ISO100 (200 at a pinch) and reduce "brightness" by "1", the results are better than a lot of compact cameras I've used. The colours in particular are excellent, and bar the occasional strange HTC processing artifact, the detail level is very good, both in the centre and into the corners. For it's minute size, the lens actually impresses me. Where the lens falls down is shooting into the sun, a stiff test for most compacts, but you could still shade it with your hand.
I think HTC's software image processing (noise reduction etc) is actually good, they don't mess with the image as much as some mainstream camera manufacturers. You get more noise, but you get more detail left too, which I prefer. I've printed some of the pics from the TD2 onto A4, and they look superb, you couldn't tell them apart from a normal compact camera.
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
I suppose there might be a lot of sample variance in such a "cheap" camera though, so just because I was lucky with mine doesn't mean everyone will have got a good one.
Pete_S said:
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
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Indeed these horizontal interference lines is what ticks me.
I'll try your settings and see if the image quality improves.
... and unfortunately I don't think you can get rid of the interference, RAW or not. It's probably getting in via the power supply to the camera, or maybe being picked up directly, from the main processor or one of the radios. Turning the phone radio off whilst taking high ISO pics might help, I haven't tried it yet. It's the price for so much digital in such a small space. At least low ISO pics aren't affected.
I'm also really interested in raw capturing. Think on some pics we will be able to have higher quality...
Guys still can't leave this idea! I really impressed by diamond2 camera. And i think that even if we would be able to capture uncompressed data from camera, png formant for example, it would be super and would give us some space for enhancements...
for WM there are so much software, and now alternative camera soft?
Or maybe video for 30fps?
Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so
Well i know that some phones have its camera function as "main argument" but other functions usually suffer there. Here we have complex device, and its camera from my point of view make decent picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5020311/1/soso?h=7b9477
Just made +1 on contrast to have wider dynamic range, and +1 on sharpness cause internal sharp algorithm is crap, if i need i'll boost contrast and sharp in lightroom. And i have very good pictures, this phone easily replace my compact camera.
Hi all, I did a thorough analysis and posted it in reddit so the Essential staff can see it. Here it is... Please post your replies and comments here along with your comparisons and settings listed please. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/essential/comments/7gjxcm/comparisons_of_new_essential_camera_update/
xterminater07 said:
Hi all, I did a thorough analysis and posted it in reddit so the Essential staff can see it. Here it is... Please post your replies and comments here along with your comparisons and settings listed please. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/essential/comments/7gjxcm/comparisons_of_new_essential_camera_update/
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Click to collapse
I have read your post. I did see the update that Essential released and although the file size is about 1 MB bigger than before the update, still the image quality didn't change. I am using this version: MGC_5.1.016_7.0+C2API_v.1.3a_AllinOne. How is it different from your version of Google Camera app?
why do you think the portrait mode does not use the second camera?
hs911 said:
why do you think the portrait mode does not use the second camera?
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Well two reasons, they never really mention what focal length the second camera is, most flagship say its a 2x optical which is a typical 52mm lens. Second, you can see the stapphy's pic, the bokeh is way off.
well i can not fully agree with you. i admit that i have no technical details for constructing pictures with two cameras but i made a simple test: i put my finger on the mono cam:
monochrome cam covered:
both cams free:
hs911 said:
well i can not fully agree with you. i admit that i have no technical details for constructing pictures with two cameras but i made a simple test: i put my finger on the mono cam:
monochrome cam covered:
both cams free:
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Interesting, I was only saying that because most true portrait set up needs a telephoto lens bc of the focal length 52mm used. The latest OP5 removed their telephoto lens and created portrait solely by upscaling pixels taken by the second lens. There is a article on gsmarena that explains this, so maybe essential is doing the same?!? But to me, anything not using a 52mm setup for portrait is all software emulated.
Essential had mentioned that both cameras are the same focal length (or at least appear to be, they didn't give specs). The difference is color vs mono. And if you look into stereo photography, which has existed since almost the dawn of photography, it's composed of 2 lenses at the same focal length slightly offset from one another similar to the dual camera setup on this phone. It produces 3d images. This is because each image is slightly offset from the other, producing a slightly different perspective. This is also how we see depth with our own eyes.
If you can produce 3d/stereo images with 2 lenses next to each other, then you could calculate how far the images are offset from one another by overlapping them. Where the offset is further, you might assume the object is further and thus produce a shallower depth of field there.
Where I'm unsure is how the expected to combine the 2 images because they won't match identically. Either they're so close that stereo imagery as I described has little to no offset, making my point above completely irrelevant and allowing them to be combined as originally planned, or there's enough offset that they're having difficulty in combining the images which is why there has been very little confirming it's actively doing this.
gk1984 said:
Essential had mentioned that both cameras are the same focal length (or at least appear to be, they didn't give specs). The difference is color vs mono. And if you look into stereo photography, which has existed since almost the dawn of photography, it's composed of 2 lenses at the same focal length slightly offset from one another similar to the dual camera setup on this phone. It produces 3d images. This is because each image is slightly offset from the other, producing a slightly different perspective. This is also how we see depth with our own eyes.
If you can produce 3d/stereo images with 2 lenses next to each other, then you could calculate how far the images are offset from one another by overlapping them. Where the offset is further, you might assume the object is further and thus produce a shallower depth of field there.
Where I'm unsure is how the expected to combine the 2 images because they won't match identically. Either they're so close that stereo imagery as I described has little to no offset, making my point above completely irrelevant and allowing them to be combined as originally planned, or there's enough offset that they're having difficulty in combining the images which is why there has been very little confirming it's actively doing this.
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Excellent analysis! The prior 2 lens system that existed was used for 3D purposes only. However, now there's softwares involved that pretty much said to ignore anything that is behind the main focus point regardless of how minimal the depth differences are. The 7 Plus didn't even make use of the telephoto until it detects an X amount of lighting present. There was a video just surfaced to show how the iPhone X turns on it's telephoto at a lower lighting than the 7 Plus or 8 Plus, I forgot which one. Most dual camera phones without telephoto lens is pretty much just like you said color and mono, and the mono allows for better color. The camera system would merge the two together to enhance color, not needing a larger aperture for low lighting since the mono takes care of that.
xterminater07 said:
Excellent analysis! The prior 2 lens system that existed was used for 3D purposes only. However, now there's softwares involved that pretty much said to ignore anything that is behind the main focus point regardless of how minimal the depth differences are. The 7 Plus didn't even make use of the telephoto until it detects an X amount of lighting present. There was a video just surfaced to show how the iPhone X turns on it's telephoto at a lower lighting than the 7 Plus or 8 Plus, I forgot which one. Most dual camera phones without telephoto lens is pretty much just like you said color and mono, and the mono allows for better color. The camera system would merge the two together to enhance color, not needing a larger aperture for low lighting since the mono takes care of that.
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I don't think you're accurate on one aspect, but otherwise yes. The mono camera doesn't do anything for color. It is physically impossible to capture color data on the monochrome sensor. Rather, that sensor is missing the layers/components that filter light into red, green, and blue. The benefits are less objects on the sensor blocking light passing through and possibly (depending on design) more surface area to capture light. So the mono sensor captures more light and more detail. Combining the 2 images is supposed to offer more detailed images and help with exposure. Anything to do with color is from the color sensor and post-processing. Quality lenses can also help the color accuracy, but it's unclear if the lens on the camera is as good as it can be or not.
gk1984 said:
I don't think you're accurate on one aspect, but otherwise yes. The mono camera doesn't do anything for color. It is physically impossible to capture color data on the monochrome sensor. Rather, that sensor is missing the layers/components that filter light into red, green, and blue. The benefits are less objects on the sensor blocking light passing through and possibly (depending on design) more surface area to capture light. So the mono sensor captures more light and more detail. Combining the 2 images is supposed to offer more detailed images and help with exposure. Anything to do with color is from the color sensor and post-processing. Quality lenses can also help the color accuracy, but it's unclear if the lens on the camera is as good as it can be or not.
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Oops, I don't mean enhance color as in Saturation and color itself. What I mean is like making the pictures more details with color and contrasts that sort, shadows and lighting. However, it is interesting the guy above cover the second lens and bokeh went away.
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
You will be blown by the photos you take with the normal version so you don't need to buy the pro version 6GB ram and 128GB Storage is enough for everything from gaming to taking photos, browsing and anything i can say.
No I really don't care about the more RAM and Rom. Just curious about the photos only!
I ordered the Pro. Should arrive next week. Frankie Tech on youtube will upload a camera comparison of the two very soon.
cycloholic said:
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
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Click to collapse
amount of lens group doesnt mean you can capture more light. Extra lens is used for correcting distortion, color aberration etc. The apperture itself is the same pro or not pro. So it should be able to capture same amount of light.
in daily usage, difference in camera result will be minor
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
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Click to collapse
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
adira.mardiani said:
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
For more details about how sensor size affecting focus area :
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
otonieru said:
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
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yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Kasallamacher said:
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
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Click to collapse
As i wrote above,
The extra lens definitely not for lol. Extra lens element is used for variety of reasons, mostly to correct distortion and color aberration. But definitely not for extra light reasons.
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
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Click to collapse
Usually in a Lens group, more len can capture more light is true.
for example, 8p lens maybe capture 99.5% of light, but 7p lens maybe only 99.2%.
The different is not big.
But "more light" is not the major benefit.
Usually more lens may correct the image better to fit the sensor.
Mi note 10 pro has problem focusing
otonieru said:
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
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Hi otonieru
I appreciate you explaining the relationship between sensor size and depth of field.
My new note 10 pro main camera seems to have trouble focusing even in good day light, it repeatedly focuses on the background instead of the person i want to photograph, even though i physically tap the person's face on screen. The 5x camera focuses fine though.
Do you think this is a hardware or software issue?
Many thanks!
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
blackhawk said:
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
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I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
TheNewLegend said:
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
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You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
blackhawk said:
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
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Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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Remember there's more than one cam... Friends? Never watched it.
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
beserker15 said:
They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
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For wide angle use the save option to automatically apply correction. This is for primarily image distortion though.
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
brachiopod said:
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
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Wonder if it just automatically does it now?
That screenshot is from my N10+ running on Pie... meh, I don't like rude surprises
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
ssglackey said:
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
TheNewLegend said:
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
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Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
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Click to collapse
I already did that too
TheNewLegend said:
I already did that too
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I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
ssglackey said:
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
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Click to collapse
Mine is sd so it is..
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the standard 12Mpix mode everything far enough is sharp and in focus, using the same lens, only in 108Mpix mode you see this issue. Your statement is valid, but with tiny sensors in smartphones all distant object must be equally in focus. I can't achieve such blur for distant object with Full frame mirrorless (35mm f1.8) and that is another league.
TheNewLegend said:
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
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The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
After a comparison with s21 ultra there was a slight difference in sharpness, however I don't know why but the colors were much better with the s21.
I'll compare them again later.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like glackey said, even with my FF camera both of the subjects will be in focus, I don't think that DOF is the issue here.
steveroysston said:
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
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Click to collapse
Both of the phones were steady and the lens was clean.
hi GPpro7 users,
I would love to have your answers as users about this :
I have had two old Samsungs (A5 and S8), and they have "old" 12mp cameras...and I have been thinking that nowadays, that's 5 years later, cameras had gotten amazing and I would buy myself one of those, reading about your device the pixel pro 7, about the iPhone, the xiaomi mi11 ultra, the honour magic 4 ultimate, the S22 ultra, the iPhone 14 etc...
I went mad when I read about affordable 48mp, even 64mp and 108 mp cameras that are affordable...and completely puzzled when I read the reviews. Only to end up comparing my own shots to the sample images I could find online, understanding that to my knowledge those cameras produce plain 12mp at all, and any attempt to enlarge them to the claimed say 64 or 108mp size will just give me an unusable image with atrocious quality, whatever the phone.
Then I found about this tool that lets you compare cameras for real after I had read the complete commercial nonsense fuelled reviews online:
Camera comparison tool
see for yourselves how supposedly camera of the year doesn't look 1200€ less cheap than my S8...it is just amazing...no phone really beats others, even old phones...it's all low-quality 12Mp jpegs, that's about not an even decent 8mp jpeg...
And I wanted to buy one because I photoshop for a living, and last camera I had was around 2005, it produced good 8mp raw images, so I could make them great quality material for photo-montages, and therefore produce prints that'd be larger than A4.
It seems I wouldn't even be able to do that with nowadays top-level smartphones that claim they offer 108Mp...and I'm asking because the online info, or basic science, about it online is just misleading.
Please, I would love your own feeling-experience with your device that is supposed to bear awesome 50mp cameras, rather than trust anything that was posted online from reviews to camera samples that could be anything. When they say 50mp, the quality of raw files is the one of average enlarged 8-12mp compressed jpegs, or not ?
Thank you
You get way better pictures on newer phones.
The only time you might see similar results are with perfect lighting.
Thats it.
The sensors are better.
Its one of the few things that actually evolve on phones.
I've had Xiaomi phones with 'AMAZING MEGAPIXELS'.
Its never amazing.
In low light they are so bad compared to flagships from Sony, Samsung and Google.
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
fashion_live said:
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
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None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
Nath_h57 said:
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
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Click to collapse
If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
ekin_strops said:
If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
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thank you, yes from the advertisement or product description, one hopes for a say 108 mp good quality camera, that will offer you PLENTY of sharp details in every photograph, like...can zoom anywhere and get a new A4 to exploit. And I'm very disappointed...
ekin_strops said:
None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
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Click to collapse
Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
fashion_live said:
Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
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check the comparison tool link I posted in the first post. Recent Xiaomi phones seem interesting regarding colour fidelity.
but anyway it relies on the ambient light as you shoot too , an app like Color Grabber may help
HipKat said:
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
fashion_live said:
I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
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I get that, but this is a phone first, not a camera and you're not going to get everything you would with an actual camera, at least at this point, although Phone cameras have come a long, long way.
I think people need to be reminded this is a communications device, primarily.
The point of the videos is that those things are taken into consideration in the comparisons.
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
96carboard said:
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
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50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
Thank you very much because everything online is VERY misleading, regarding 500 - 1500 euros investments.
I am flabbergasted because the ads and product descriptions pretend it's 50mp or more pro cameras, and they happen to be plain okay (not even but...) 12mp digicams. Nothing worth spending 1500 euros it seems. I just expected I could invest like 800 and get a pro camera too that would just let me shoot a photo, get awesome 50mp quality, zoom on the raw file and get another A4 size good cropped shot etc...on top of the disappointment, the misleading info and product description is truly disgusting
MrBelter said:
50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
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Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
tiagobt said:
Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
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Click to collapse
The same sensor does produce 50mp images on other phones so presumably it is handled by software, personally I don't think Google will allow it.
It's definitely a software thing as my OnePlus 9's stock camera software does enable you to disable the pixel binning and take a full 50MP photo. The results are pretty terrible though because OnePlus' camera just leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes ! it's all about that, and about the availability of non-binned therefore 48mp or more images online for comparison, it took me ages to find only one of those from a Xiaomi 12s phone, so the actual quality of the camera is actually visible !!! (and not that great !) although the Xiaomi 12t pro and maybe 12s ultra are the best ones I've found so far.
The thing is they show 12mp shots shrunk to our phones' dimensions, or as a shrunk jpeg so that looks good, but that's nothing like the actual camera"s quality that only gets visible on those original non-binned shots, that's a pic that's about an iMac's screen size and it seems very little progress has occurred in five years, the best cam gives okay to good enough results in daylight but that goes with manual retouching. Unless someone proves me wrong...
Personally i don't see what the fuss is about, 12.5mp is more than adequate for printing even at A3 and as they say the best camera is the one you have in your hand, the megapixel myth seems alive and well.
My first DSLR was only 8MP and i did plenty of (paid) weddings and air shows with that.