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[Discussion] Quality of Camera's on Phones

It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!

Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Is Alcatel lying about the camera/lens on the Idol 3?

So I got an Idol 3 5.5 that fell from 15cm off the ground and of course broke it's screen, so a friend gave me his old iPhone 4S as a replacement until I decide what I will do with the Alcatel. I'm a semi-professional photographer and have been using SLRs and DSLRs for some 15 years. I am astounded how good the camera on the 4 and (almost) a half years old iPhone 4s is, especially compared to the half year old Alcatel. But it's not that the iPhone is excellent (although it is), the Alcatel is, well, not so good.
So, here's a test I did. I photographed the same subject in the same lighting conditions (artifical constant indoor light so no variations in lighting between shots) from the same position, maybe a few milimeteres to the side (not farther or closer to skew the perspective/depth of field).
Photos in next post so I can add attachments to it

Are you kidding me, I can't post photos?

You should not have expected superb photo quality. The cost of the phone speaks for itself.

Can't tell if you are trolling or not.
How are you a semi-professional photographer and comparing an iPhone to the Idol 3. There is more to cameras than just megapixels you know and Apple is known for having top-of-the-line cameras in their phones. Also, if you are an avid photographer, why did it take you getting an iPhone in order to confirm that you don't like the Idol 3 photos?

lying about what though? I don't think they claimed to take better pics than an iphone 4s?

OK guys, it would all make much more sense if I could post photos, but I was actually not comparing the photo quality from iPhone and Alcatel, but rather the exposure values, where the EXIF suggests that the lens on the Alcatel is not f/2.0, but actually something smaller. In the same lighting conditions the iPhone photo had these values:
f/2.4, 1/20s, ISO 200
and the Idol 3:
f/2.0, 1/50s, ISO 1800
and this suggests that there is significantly less light coming to the chip of the Alcatel (almost three stops less). I have tested the exposure value of this situation with my Nikon and it is in sync with the iPhone EXIF values. Also, depth-of-field of the image on the Alcatel when compared to the iPhone is also confirming this. I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong! Maybe my unit is defective?Please, try to shoot the same frame with the Alcatel and some other camera and compare the exposure values.

I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
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Yeah I know that this sensor is used in a variety of cameras and have seen images from the 1+ and they were great! But again, I'm not talking about the quality of the image, I'm talking about it's objective performance in terms of the amount of light that comes to the sensor which seems to be less than they state it should be.
I just remembered that the camera app has that "Pro" mode which makes it possible to manually input the ISO and shutter speed so I will try to do it again comparing it to the iPhone, DSLR and my wife's Sony T3 later today.
I'm sure they used a lens of lower quality but it shouldn't block almost three stops of light compared to other lenses.
Hemidrosis said:
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
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1 -
mrkva123 said:
I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong!
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and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?

I'm not saying that they are lying definitely but I'm just asking cause this sounds strange.
Yeah, I can use the phone although its screen is broken since only one part (lower) of the screen is not functioning and the phone is flippable, so I need to constantly flip it to use different parts of the screen.
I sincerely doubt that the fall damaged the camera or any parts of it cause everything works, no artifacts or anything else.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the lens, chip, software or anything else. Image shot at f/2.0, 1/50s and ISO 200 will have the same exposure value (it would look to be equally light or dark) whether it was shot on an Alcatel Idol 3 or a professional Hasselblad medium-format 50 000 € camera or a film camera, or a camera obscura. Exposure is objectively measurable and is expressed with these values, nothing to do with the quality of the parts used and nothing to do with the quality of the photo, it's just the amount of light, not the quality of it or the image!
I have uploaded the photos to a image hosting service but I can't link to them, I tried numerous times.
DallasCZ said:
1 - and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
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I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.

so, here are the images
first I shot with the iPhone since it can only shoot full auto:
http://imgur.com/CE9xNOc
EXIF says that it's:
1/20 sec, ISO 160 and f/2.4
So I set the Alcatel in the manual mode as follows to be as close to the iPhone shot:
1/30 sec, ISO 200 and the aperture is according to Alcatel, f/2.0 (although when I shot it in manual mode the aperture value is mysteriously omitted from the EXIF). the photo from the Alcatel should be brighter on these settings!
and here's what we get:
http://imgur.com/7d7c407
Once again, this has nothing to do with quality of the camera or any other parts involved, it's not that the Alcatel is worse, it is wrong.

And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.

mrkva123 said:
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
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i see what are you trying to tell, but i as i said, its a mobile phone i dont care.
But as i remember, there was same issue on my previous ZTE V5..the first firmwares said,that the aperture is 2.2 ...people complain about it and they have corrected it in next firmware.
So here can it be also. Ask on redit or in main XDa QA section, maybe someone who better understands optics and photograpy will tell you.

easyriider said:
I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
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Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:

TallTommy said:
Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
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Agree! Because of you I gave it a try, amazing app + Now it's on sale. Wow

I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.

petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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I have no single piece of dust on my camera..i have it for about 9 months allready.

My camera is also perfectly clean after more than half a year. I don't think they are lying about the specs. I suspect that the problem here is in the t-stop, which no lens manufacturer ever tells you about. The lens on the idol 3 is probably f/2 as they claim, but the amount of light that reaches the sensor has almost nothing to do with the f-stop, it's the t-stop that determines that. You can't actually rely on the f/stop for exposure (though it's a good approximation, usually), the f/stop is really only accurate for the depth of field that you get. I suspect that the t-stop on the idol 3 is lower than the one of the iPhone, while the t-stop of the iPhone happens to be more similar to the one of your DSLR lens. Though I have to say, the exposure difference in the photos you posted is very dramatic, maybe about 2 stops? I don't know if the t-stop can cause such a big difference.
That said, you could also easily test if the idol 3 camera is actually f/2. The idol 3 has a 6.1mm x 4.64mm sensor, and an 3.8mm focal length. Considering the sensor size, the crop factor is 7,2. As you probably know, the crop factor not only affects the focal length, but also the f/stop (and in fact also the ISO, but that doesn't matter now). So the idol 3 has a 35mm equivalent f/stop of f/2 x 7,2= f/14.4 (as far as DoF is concerned, not the exposure, obviously. This is the reason that it's so hard to get nice background blur on photos from smartphones unless you are very close up, it's because they have crazy small apertures like our idol 3 here at f/14.4. Again this is ONLY for DoF, not exposure. Basically because the sensor is very small, the aperture being small doesn't matter for exposure, the amount of light per pixel is about the same as if it was f/2 with a 35mm sensor.)
So, you could grab your Full Frame DSLR, set it to 27,4mm and f/14.4, (or if you have a 1.5x crop sensor DSLR, at 18.2mm and f/9.6), and then take a test picture with that DSLR and one with the idol 3. It's a DoF test shot, so take that into account when taking the photos (maybe set up a couple of items in a row, get them in frame in the same way on the idol 3 and DSLR, and focus on the frontmost item). The pictures from the DSLR and idol 3 should look about the same, DoF wise. The idol 3 will likely be noisier and not as sharp, and the exposure may be different too, but if the DoF is very different, then the idol 3 is not f/2. Setting up the DoF test shots might be tricky, because the minimum focusing distance is probably very different on the idol 3 and DSLR, but if you take these test shots we will at least know for certain if it is f/2 or not.

petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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"Dust in the lens, all we are is dust in the lens..." lol No problems here, and everyone is free to do what they want with their phones, but I assume you are not using a full coverage case? I really can't believe some of the things I see people complain about when they don't use a quality case, and nowadays, a 9H glass screen protector. Not picking on you, and it's possible, even likely you got a bad unit. But "I dropped my phone, and I can't believe the pos shattered! I read it had blah blah next generation glass!" That one really makes me laugh.
And as far as the camera, There are lots of options for downloading/porting other cameras, with better settings and software. It's a $200 cell phone, and taking good pics is something that is important to me, so I always do a little searching on the forums of the new phones I get. I only paid $109 from Cricket, but even at $249 retail, what you get for the money is an amazing piece of technology, not a dedicated top of the line camera. And picture quality is somewhat subjective when you are talking about contrast, exposure, and saturation. Just one man's opinion....

HONEST COMPARISON: S8 Front/Rear Cameras Are The Worst On A Flagship Phone In Years

EDIT: There are probably dozens of reviews/comparisons, but here are two just from today that are also harsh: Krystal Key and PocketNow. And UrAverageConsumer's wife's comments here and here "it does look a little washed out...it is a little soft...I'm not a fan of it...it's good enough..."
The consensus seems to be that the front camera is "soft" (aka it looks permanently out of focus or blurry), the rear cam consistently blows out highlights with or without HDR, and video is wobbly and distorted despite ois AND eis. To be clear (pun intended) this is not a problem with the sensors, but with Samsung's processing. If Google's Camera app didn't disable HDR+ on non-Nexus devices then the S8 it would very likely take the best pictures of any smartphone ever.
Here are my samples shot with my S8 with the better Sony sensors, and a Nexus 6P from 18 months ago. For maximum quality from the S8, HDR is enabled and beauty disabled. 6P is in auto mode. Be sure to right click on the side-by-side compilation images and open in a new tab to see them at full size, where the detail quality—rather than just the light/color quality—is most apparent.
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FULL GALLERY
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 1/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 2/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 1/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 2/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 3/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 4/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 5/5: N6P — GS8
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BONUS - 2MP tablet front cam with no HDR from 2015
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SUPER BONUS - Mystery camera! Can you guess?

My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!

.psd said:
All in the interest of honesty (it's OK to be honest!)
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Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html

Samsung frontcams are always behind the competition. Not sure why. Agreed with OP's honest review.

BarryH_GEG said:
Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
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I also included nearly 30 minutes of reviews of the camera by PocketNow and Krystal Key, but there are likely dozens of reviews by now showing the same thing.
The front cam looks like it's always out of focus—what reviewers universally are calling "soft". The rear cam consistently blows out the highlights even with HDR on. Video is wobbly and distorted despite having OIS AND EIS. In all cases, this is due to Samsung's processing because devices with inferior sensors from Google or Apple don't have these problems.

Something here in which i agree is that over-exposing. The Galaxy S8 loves doing this in certain situations where it shouldn't be doing but most of all is the auto-focus feature for me. Auto-Focus can be a mess when it wants too, simple macros where it should focus with ease it can't do that. I took my S6 and i found that in certain situations it was able to get a faster better macro with one tap compared to the S8. I felt that this one is a bit sloppy, and requires a lot of fiddling to get a good focus point. But don't get me wrong, whenever the phone is able to focus and does a good job in auto mode the photos look amazing. Overall my only complaint is the auto-focus on close-up shots and some over exposing. I really think these can be tweaked with a software update but honestly this phone should have had a completely new rear camera in the first place without being forced to wait for the new Note. I still believe this phone was a bit rushed, it looks stunning and awesome performance but man those software tweaks and scrolling bugs, and stutters and red screens could have been avoided. Oh yes.. let's not forget that Image Stabilization , wobbly videos and front face focus as mentioned above, i think these sometimes do a mess of a job. Real let down from the camera side of things for me.

I didn't do detailed comparison but for rear camera, which is the one i care the most, my S8+ seems similar and even slightly better than my Note 7.
Consumer Reports did more detailed comparison, they think the s8 has the best 12MP camera there is. And according this photo, in low light it's indeed a lot better than the s7.
https://youtu.be/3MmjHMWwtPU
So no, the s8 rear camera is NOT The Worst On A Flagship Phone In Years

My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.

No issues, amazing camera. Coming from a Pixel, pixel does look nicer but not by far.
When someone is doing pixel peeping, i am sure you can find flaws about every cameras out there. I look at overall quality and usability such as speed of launch and speed of taking the actual picture. After all phone pictures are all about capturing the moment.

Turn off one of the stabilizations. They dont both need to be on. Also, every samsung has let you adjust the exposure level..
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

The pictures are a lot better than the pictures the HTC M8 took.

Darkestred said:
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
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Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.

willymcd said:
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
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Whoa, no way the s6 takes better pictures. I just did my own comparison and ask the s6 photos are so dark and fuzzy

.psd said:
Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
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I never said anything about that. I just said in my use i feel its better. Here are 2 sample pics i did. I dont have any fancy setup so its all manual and i realize my pictures are not lined up but i got lazy. I feel the color in the s8 is way nicer and while it does get soft or blend in details like my scruff - i still think overall it does a nicer shot. Its not always a perfect shot. out of the 6 i took one came out blurry.
If my pictures aren't perfect enough - i really do not care. Take it for what its worth.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3F4QJb82X1ReV9mVUMzRzJTdmc

I too made a thread because I noticed how soft this front camera is. I'm super disappointed.

@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx

Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app

Looking at the pics it does look like the S8 shots are worse(maybe not) / different from other phones. In all of these reviews the one thing no one has mentioned is that smartphone cameras are largely software dependent. While the S8 is on software that has come right out of the box, 6p as used here has had a whole year's worth of updates some of which definitely did bring updates to the camera software. I still love the S8 and believe that future software updates can and will iron out the issues with the camera. (Just hoping Samsung doesn't drop the ball on the updates front).

Eddie Hicks said:
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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That's the one I linked in the OP...??

kornelius1982 said:
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
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No because image hosts strip the metadata for user protection (e.g. location data) and it would take too long to do it for each picture the following way (e.g. undelete them from google photos and screencap some of the metadata minus the location, then save each file, then upload it, then link it here):
Here's the data for 2 of them to prove they were shot on the S8:
#1 — #2

Ultra-wide angle camera color science is off?

Apart from the frustrating fact that you can't record video and that the ultra-wide lens isn't very wide, the colors and seem to be extremely off in the comparisons I've seen to the point that I don't know if it's solvable through a software update. Maybe fixing the distortion and the super low saturation through software will somewhat save it, I don't know. Heck, even Mi 9 has a clearly superior ultra-wide WITH recording. What do you think? Does anyone that has the phone have a different experience? I want to buy this phone, but at this point in my country it's about the same price as a S10+ (Exynos) and I'm struggling to make a decision.
I wish GCam mods come early to save this mess.

NightmareAndroid said:
Apart from the frustrating fact that you can't record video and that the ultra-wide lens isn't very wide, the colors and seem to be extremely off in the comparisons I've seen to the point that I don't know if it's solvable through a software update. Maybe fixing the distortion and the super low saturation through software will somewhat save it, I don't know. Heck, even Mi 9 has a clearly superior ultra-wide WITH recording. What do you think? Does anyone that has the phone have a different experience? I want to buy this phone, but at this point in my country it's about the same price as a S10+ (Exynos) and I'm struggling to make a decision.
I wish GCam mods come early to save this mess.
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I cannot answer specifically to the 7 Pro, but I can tell you that the colour science is off on my now-sold Galaxy S10 Plus Exynos version. Switching between the main lens and the wide angle lens in the same exact lighting and spot yields different colour reproduction. It might be down to the actual lens used in junction with the software, but I can safety say that this problem isn't exclusive to the 7 Pro if anything.
Also, don't buy the Exynos version of the S10. It has garbage battery life, and has different camera lenses to the SD version that have shown to be inferior to the SD version.

There is a setting in the camera called "Ultra Wide Lens Correction." I wonder if testers are switching this setting to see if this is the issue. I just got mine, but it's night time right now so I will need some time to test (but I only have the LG G7 ThinQ to compare to.)

AhsanU said:
I cannot answer specifically to the 7 Pro, but I can tell you that the colour science is off on my now-sold Galaxy S10 Plus Exynos version. Switching between the main lens and the wide angle lens in the same exact lighting and spot yields different colour reproduction. It might be down to the actual lens used in junction with the software, but I can safety say that this problem isn't exclusive to the 7 Pro if anything.
Also, don't buy the Exynos version of the S10. It has garbage battery life, and has different camera lenses to the SD version that have shown to be inferior to the SD version.
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Yes, but at least every other wide angle camera in the market gives decent results. 7 Pro's results are very undersaturated, very soft and sometimes seem like out of focus.
I know about the S10+. If it was a Snapdragon version I would have already bought it.

matistight said:
There is a setting in the camera called "Ultra Wide Lens Correction." I wonder if testers are switching this setting to see if this is the issue. I just got mine, but it's night time right now so I will need some time to test (but I only have the LG G7 ThinQ to compare to.)
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Great! Post some samples when you can. I'm not that worried about the lens correction, I don't mind the distortion. My problem is mainly the saturation and softness of detail. If you can, post original results + "corrected" versions using Snapseed/Photoshop to check if some post-processing saves the day at least. Thank you in advance!

NightmareAndroid said:
Yes, but at least every other wide angle camera in the market gives decent results. 7 Pro's results are very undersaturated, very soft and sometimes seem like out of focus.
I know about the S10+. If it was a Snapdragon version I would have already bought it.
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Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.

AhsanU said:
Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.
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That's what I hope!

AhsanU said:
Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.
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It really depends. It might not be fixable with gcam.
The main camera uses a pretty good sensor. But it is a different sensor for the wide angle lens. So the quality of the wide angle shots will heavily depend on the quality of the sensor they use for their wide angle lens. It might be a weak sensor, we don't know right now. Huawei uses 4 Sony sensors for example, their wide angle pictures are pretty good. And yes, the best hardware is useless without a good software. But the best software also can't fix a bad sensor.
Not saying that it is a bad sensor, it's just that we don't know by now. We might have to wait for a teardown and some talented devs to see what is inside and if it is fixable.
I can only link you the specs from dxomark:
Primary: 48Mp Sony IMX586 sensor (12Mp output size), 26mm-equivalent lens with f/1.6 aperture and OIS
Ultra-wide: 16Mp sensor, 17mm-equivalent lens with f/2.2 aperture
Telephoto: 8Mp sensor, 78mm-equivalent lens with f/2.4 aperture and OIS

Differencea between 8p / 7p lenses

Hi everyone,
As the name of the thread, can someone explain the difference between the two types of Lens group?
8p are only on pro version
7p on normale mi note 10
Reading some info in the web, there s a lot of confusion about this:
some say that 8p can capture more light than 7p, but it is something that I don't think because the sensitivity to light is determined by the sensor itself and by the aperture (f1.7 on both), not by the lenses.
some others say that the images are sharper on the 8p, and it's another thing I don't believe in, unless the quality of the lenses themselves, regardless of their number, is lower on the 7p. And i don t think so
I think instead that this famous extra lens on the pro version has been inserted to correct the strong distortion at the edges of the image that is encountered on the standard version.
below I insert a link (the only comparison I have found) where both models are compared. even the result of the mi note 10 standard is described as sharper!?
but it is difficult to evaluate because none of the photos in this video are enlarged enough to find out if it is true.
Maybe with a link of full res images....
https://youtu.be/ncnnFrdw50M
I'd be happy to know what you think, and if anyone here is an expert in these techniques (I'm sure that's the case) they can also provide some further explanation regarding this difference.
thank you all,
merry christmas and happy day

As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.

I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light

oooooh a competent person that provides reliable and scientific information. it is always a satisfaction to receive this type of feedback!
so how, using logic, I thought ... the improvement from 7p to 8p is not on the sharpness, contrast or brightness of the photo, but on the various chromatic imperfections that can be found in the saved shot.
moreover, things that can be easily corrected with lrm, i think.
thank you!

carlosml1 said:
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
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Thank you! Can you upload some samples of both devices please?

otonieru said:
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
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Click to collapse
so do you think that the 8p pro version has more sharpness in the shots against the 7p version? I m quite thinking ti sell mine and buy the pro but i don t understand if the img quality in terms of sharpness exists.

left my note 10 right my note 10 pro

carlosml1 said:
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
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very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?

mezza8512 said:
very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
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Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here

carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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sharpness at the center of the image Better on pro, or Is the same in the two versions?

carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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please can you post a link with full res images of both devices in some conditions? Daylight, interior and low light of both devices ... Thank you

Ok now i have both versions and i can directly compare the difference.
first, I notice a larger area of focus, it seems that this additional lens gives a better direction to the light and to the ability to focus. this is also noticeable when taking a photo at night, in a street with public lighting, and the rings around the light are much more concentrated and less widespread than on the standard version.
there is also a better dynamic range, with more details in the dark areas, especially in the low light shots.
another interesting thing is the software, because it is not the same as the standard version. the differences are minimal, but I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
the images are less "soft" and more processed by the sw.
different speech in the photos of the interior and on the photos to people, where the pro version works better getting better details and faster and more precise focus.
ultimately, the differences are not in favor of one version rather than the other, but in a different way of interpreting the scene.
0.6 x, macro, 2 x, 5x are the same, while from 10x up there is a better detail because the interpolation of the main sensor intervenes, which thanks to better optics, guarantees better details.
verdict:
Is 8p better than 7p?
yes, but only if you want to take photos at "pedal to the metal" of the search for detail and the final result after post production.
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!

mezza8512 said:
...
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
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Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?

A Minh said:
Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
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Sorry my friend but i sold both mi note 10 long time ago

mezza8512 said:
I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
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Hi, sorry for bringing this so late, but I'm interesting in this phones. It's not clear to me which version above has higher JPEG compression? I assume it's the Mi Note 10 (not Pro)? It wouldn't make much sense the other way around. Also, which one has higher contrast and over-sharpening - Pro or non-Pro?
I know you probably don't remember it now, but it's worth a shot to ask.