It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!
Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Related
Morning all,
Got the phone a few days ago, excellent phone.
Quick, awesome looking, solid phone.
But I've noticed the camera is appalling. Outside daylight photos are okay but not great, inside photos are poor. Why is that? Surely for a 8mp camera the photos should be better. My camera settings seem to be correct.
I compared my Nokia Lumia camera with the SGS3 and they're miles apart.
Is this normal or is there a bug that Nokia know about and will be releasing an update for?
please let me know your thoughts. Ta
I have no idea why people expect a camera's resolution ("8mp" or otherwise) to have any significant impact on the image quality. More pixels does not make an image any better focused, better lit, less grainy, truer color, less chromatic aberration, or any other such effect. It does increase the maximum detail that the image can store, but does nothing at all for the minimum quality. Besides, people have ridiculously inflated expectations of pixel count, typically resulting in just wasting a bunch of starage space keeping huge files that are never viewed at full resolution anyhow. Your phone's screen is well under half a megapixel, for example.
That said, I can't say for sure why the Lumia 900 would have a worse-than-expected camera. To somebody used to a *real* camera, all phone cameras suck (yes, even the much-vaunted iPhone 4S) but it is entirely possible that there's a firmware issue affecting the image quality. The HTC HD7 had a long-running issue that made photos come out rather pink, for example.
Out of curiosity, are you using the flash, or do you have any special settings in the camera app selected (possibly by accident)? It would also help to know in what way the pictures are poor.
Must admit mine was abit shady out of the box but after fiddling with a few settings I got it to a reasonable quality, Maybe play with a few settings and make sure you save them, My Titans Camera was near on the same to start with.
This might help you out a bit
http://mywpstory.com/2012/04/camera...-with-your-new-nokia-lumia-900-windows-phone/
This one is a little more broad, but it is from Nokia.
http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/05/21/10-photography-tips-for-nokia-lumia-900/
Hi everyone!
Edit: The camera and camcorder response / accessing time is also 5 and 4 times higher than another Android device.
This tablet comes Full HD display, utilizing nvidia's 40nm processor technology (SoC).
The current IC fabrication technology is 22nm, 28nm and 32nm which is considerably more efficient than 40nm in terms of processing power.
I noticed on the first day of receiving this tablet I was overwhelmed by its full HD display, for this tablet being a high-end product.
When I look at the image captured by the camera I was somewhat not surprised by the image quality of the camera.
It has been one of the main features which was talked about in the launch / promotional video of the TF Infinity.
Where it talked about a 5th lens that adds on a superior quality but I don't see that quality. There are couple of problems with the camera.
1. The well known focus clicking problem in video mode (auto focus is unavailable in video mode).
2. The image captured in a room with fluorescent lighting has a refresh rate problem (with horizontal bars across the image).
3. The zoom feature worked fine but somehow the preview which shown on the screen isn't, the live preview is low resolution and produce undesirable sharp blocks (which is just as annoying as using a low ended product).
The camera software is primitive and is lacking lots of the standard features of a camera.
But I'd expect much more quality from them and nevertheless to say it is pretty unexpected to see the full HD display while still leaving lots of blanks for the critics to fill up (wondering why the reviewers never mentioned the negative points on the tablet) and usability problems which its users faces.
A lot of people probably don't care about the camera but hey this tablet isn't cheap to start with and it's made by a reputable brand name in the technology industry (& they don't make Cameras...).
If you watch the live preview closely, you can actually see the horizontal bars moving down the screen (just like the refresh rate of the good old analog TV).
Is there any experts with cameras who can tell me how do you capture an image without the presence of the horizontal bars?
Is this tablet with high-end specification and without quality?
But if you are just an average user; Do you still get really annoying about all of the problems on the tablet?
*# One other thing which is rather inconsistent, I noticed is the file modified date in the recently released FW updates "*_epad-user-9.4.5.22.zip", all of the files within it are dated with 22/3/2011 11:21AM. And the zipped file within "*_epad-user_9_4_5_22_UpdateLauncher.zip" are dated 15/6/2012 and this update was only uploaded a few days ago!
I remember my phone originally had a lot of issues with camera...it ended up being software. I tried Camera Zoom FX, and the pictures started to come out quite a lot better. LGCamera works great as well, and also has a video mode. Try those, that might increase your picture quality and also gives you a lot more control over pictures.
As good as the camera was built up by Asus, its still a tablet camera. Tablet cameras have a reputation for being kinda crap.
But I agree with KilerG's post. Try other camera software and see if that helps. Or perhaps try turning down the resolution.
Jotokun said:
As good as the camera was built up by Asus, its still a tablet camera. Tablet cameras have a reputation for being kinda crap.
But I agree with KilerG's post. Try other camera software and see if that helps. Or perhaps try turning down the resolution.
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I wasn't expecting to become a professional photographer with this tablet, much less shoot my next great film on it (even though if I did, that would be hilarious). I probably won't spend a lot of time using the camera, and when I do, I think that's it's adequate for what it is...a tablet camera.
Remember how Apple talks up their camera? It still doesn't take the most amazing photos, especially on the iPad (well they talk up everything that is basically worthless, so maybe that's a bad example). I can get a better picture from a Samsung or HTC phone 9 times out of 10 than on a fruit device.
KilerG said:
I wasn't expecting to become a professional photographer with this tablet, much less shoot my next great film on it (even though if I did, that would be hilarious). I probably won't spend a lot of time using the camera, and when I do, I think that's it's adequate for what it is...a tablet camera.
Remember how Apple talks up their camera? It still doesn't take the most amazing photos, especially on the iPad (well they talk up everything that is basically worthless, so maybe that's a bad example). I can get a better picture from a Samsung or HTC phone 9 times out of 10 than on a fruit device.
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So; I guess you didn't buy a tablet because of its camera, but you see the point of having a camera on the tablet is to make life easy and fun.
It should be expected of from a tablet, various components of the tablet works but its not perfect, why? Maybe the manufacturer can answer the question.
Redefined301 said:
So; I guess you didn't buy a tablet because of its camera, but you see the point of having a camera on the tablet is to make life easy and fun.
It should be expected of from a tablet, various components of the tablet works but its not perfect, why? Maybe the manufacturer can answer the question.
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This is maybe philosophical.
Being the best does not infer perfection.
Ahhh, but I too would prefer perfection. Those cameras cost 10's of thousands and almost require a degree to operate. For 500 bucks and a ton of more relevant things it does I am happy with the best of crap.
So to speak.
Lets just hope for the best of apps to get us home.
+1 for Camera ZoomFX. One of the first apps i install on my devices.
timrock said:
+1 for Camera ZoomFX. One of the first apps i install on my devices.
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The quality remains the same as the horizontal bars are still present in the still image.
I took this picture today and it seemed to come out perfectly fine. There were no lights on and it was starting to get dark. My phone's camera would have taken an incredibly grainy picture, but this seemed to work just fine.
That's. My grandpa and great uncle if you were wondering. I'm visiting my grandparents and great uncle currently
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https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
Lawliet918 said:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
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Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony.
Apple paid Dxomark= dxomark 96 points
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life. Truth is I cant expect from camera big as fingernail to catch photos like pro digital camera. Also every model with only one main camera will fail this test. Still I am happy with xzp camera for taking pictures, even the front camera is finally good for selfies.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4XtNwH
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4AWDDW
Also we should wait for xz1 review, maybe they did some update on img processing...
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smitrovic said:
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even part of the test. If there is no actual optical zoom, what are they really testing? I see people zoom in on their smartphone cameras all the time and I wonder what the point is. Just crop the photo later. You get a better picture, and the "zoom" is effectively the same.
It's really sad and bit disappointing. I think most of the stuff they were saying true.
Couldn't care less. I didn't buy this phone for it's camera
Come on Sony... 83
Come on Sony'
I bought the XZ Premium because I already own Sony cameras. Sony is obviously the leader in sensor technology and by teaming up with Zeiss there should be no questions about the hardware. So... That only leaves one thing. Software! Apple uses Sony Sensors. Samsung likewise. Even Huawei. So we know their sensors are no better, it must be the software. Please Sony, get off your arrogant asses and give us something that's competitive. I know this 83 could be brought up to 93 if you can just give us a new update and a little software support.
I guess that wont happen ever, because Sony needs to save digital camera market tho. If they made this camera use all potential, they wont sell any 200-400 euro digital cameras.
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The initial purporpose of dxomark is to diminish any phone that lacks a second lens for bokeh and zoom and from the other side to favor the phones that have it. So i cannot take this test into consideration because it lacks any professionalism and puts double standards.
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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You can use other camera apps, just not the free versions. If you can handle a couple of euros for Camera Zoom FX you will find that the camera is not as you describe it!!! By any chance have you unlocked your bootloader? I'm sure you know that currently there is no way to backup your TA partition wich means the loss of your DRM unique key which enables camera features, and more.
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
Katsigaros said:
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
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Wasn't really my point was it. You can go buy a year old S7 or LG G6 and shoot in manual mode or in auto mode and smash the Sony out of the water.
And if you want a more stock android experience buy a Moto G5 Plus and that also beats the Sony.
The reason I know is because i have them. The way the sony was sold with improved lens, better low light due to bigger pixel size and hybrid auto focus this was supposed to be a beast of a camera. Which it isn't, not even close.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------
WildBit said:
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
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Lets hope so, I am a huge Sony fan and want them to succeeded. I've had all the xperia's since the z3 compact. I just want a camera experience which is as good as the rest of the software and hardware.
This new DXO formula is idiotic... It gives adventages to dualcam phones.
whats the point of doing bokkeh test if there is actually no bokkeh...It should be a feature, it should not affect the score, because many other phones have their own features which are not measured by DXO tests.
for example. XZP has no bokkeh, but it has wider lens, which is a big advantage for me, but there are no additional point for that in the test.
Beside that, DXO tests started to be incomparable.
Look at Iphone 8 review and XZP review. I8 review is 10x more complex - it contains way more tests than XZP review.
There are also inconsistencies like:
At the first paragraph, in the "Test Summary" section they wrote, quote:
"the XZ Premium features relatively strong autofocus performance for both photography and video, as well as very good stabilization for video."
But at the end, in the "Conclusion" section they wrote, quote:
"Video performance is also competent, but marred by problems with loss of detail and mediocre stabilization."
it is really pathetic and not professional.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
gengi said:
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
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Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
jms.flynn said:
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
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960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
gengi said:
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
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I know in certain lighting conditions it causes alot of flicker. I thought at night it would flicker but it doesnt so thats really cool. Nice video by the way.
Its like alot of people say though, as soon as Samsung or Apple do something new everyone in the world is like wow look at this. Then Sony does it and everyone is quiet about it. Our device the XZ Premium is the first to have a 4K HDR screen and is also the only device alongside the XZS and XZ1 to record at 960fps. Nobody in the world understands how cool it is to have those two features in the palm of your hand. If Samsung or Apple did it then im sure they would understand. As soon as another company besides Apple or Samsung do something cool they get criticised by their 'big bezels' which shouldnt even matter when you take into consideration the features packed into the device.
The score given for our device, I dont think its fair. If you want something fair watch a YouTube video on a comparison or review of the camera, im sure they will be more on point and accurate.
I didnt buy the phone for its camera. If someone wants to say they have an iPhone 8 with a higher score than my XZ Premium they can but I believe the scores are biased and that the rest of their scores are one-sided.
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
chefnoob said:
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
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I think everyone knows already that the Pixel has a better camera.
As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
Lesser Version said:
As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
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Yes it's a bit difficult. Here's why...
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Nig...-Ultra-wide-cameras-on-OnePlus-7-Pro_id117647
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I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
Also looks great to me...
slayerh4x said:
I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
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All depends on your expectations. I think the pics from the stock camera looks pretty great, especially in good light. The original poster is comparing the photo quality to the Pixel 2 XL, so I can't make that comparison personally. For me, on one hand, if I really want the best image quality, I'll use my "real camera". On the other hand, I'm usually pretty impressed when I do use my 7 Pro for snapshots.
To address the original poster's question, the big difference is that Google has nearly endless cash and resources to throw at what they think is important. And it's pretty clear they look at the camera on the Pixel line as a discriminator; and versus the likes of Samsung and Apple (if not in sales numbers, than by device price and "flagship" device status). Where OnePlus is a pretty small company, content with existing in a more "value" priced space (even if the price keep incrementally bumping up with each iteration). OnePlus phones doesn't quite max out the specs in every category (we all know that), but they give us a great device for a great price.
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
galaxys said:
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
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This made me laugh this morning......thanks!
Robert235 said:
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
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My thoughts exactly. Not only does Google have the cash to burn, but also massive amounts of data to draw upon for their AI machine learning. Plus, development of image AI probably has tons of applications for other Google projects, besides just the camera app or the Pixel phones. So it probably makes perfect sense in the bigger picture for Google to be spending resources on the camera app and related technologies.
None of this really applies to OnePlus. They are just a relatively small company making some nice phones.
This whole subject on phones and cameras makes me laugh all the time. I'm an enthusiast photog and do a lot of photography. I have some serious equipment just to give some background. These phones are point and shoot cameras. They do extremely well in all situations really. They generally take a photo at comparable quality as a DSLR from 10 years ago. if I need serious photos, I'll look out my gear. These phones are more than enough for 90% of anyone taking photos. I can use my OnePlus 7 pro in manual mode and get photos good enough to be used professionally. In auto I can get better than most DSLR cameras from 10 years ago.
Every phone camera has flaws, including pixel, Samsung, Huawei and apple. That's why in these photo camera comparisons the op7 is best in a certain situation, Samsung is better here and apple is better there. This is why people like myself still spend $3-4k on camera like a Nikon D850. I use my phone camera probably 85% of the time, they are still that good
hi GPpro7 users,
I would love to have your answers as users about this :
I have had two old Samsungs (A5 and S8), and they have "old" 12mp cameras...and I have been thinking that nowadays, that's 5 years later, cameras had gotten amazing and I would buy myself one of those, reading about your device the pixel pro 7, about the iPhone, the xiaomi mi11 ultra, the honour magic 4 ultimate, the S22 ultra, the iPhone 14 etc...
I went mad when I read about affordable 48mp, even 64mp and 108 mp cameras that are affordable...and completely puzzled when I read the reviews. Only to end up comparing my own shots to the sample images I could find online, understanding that to my knowledge those cameras produce plain 12mp at all, and any attempt to enlarge them to the claimed say 64 or 108mp size will just give me an unusable image with atrocious quality, whatever the phone.
Then I found about this tool that lets you compare cameras for real after I had read the complete commercial nonsense fuelled reviews online:
Camera comparison tool
see for yourselves how supposedly camera of the year doesn't look 1200€ less cheap than my S8...it is just amazing...no phone really beats others, even old phones...it's all low-quality 12Mp jpegs, that's about not an even decent 8mp jpeg...
And I wanted to buy one because I photoshop for a living, and last camera I had was around 2005, it produced good 8mp raw images, so I could make them great quality material for photo-montages, and therefore produce prints that'd be larger than A4.
It seems I wouldn't even be able to do that with nowadays top-level smartphones that claim they offer 108Mp...and I'm asking because the online info, or basic science, about it online is just misleading.
Please, I would love your own feeling-experience with your device that is supposed to bear awesome 50mp cameras, rather than trust anything that was posted online from reviews to camera samples that could be anything. When they say 50mp, the quality of raw files is the one of average enlarged 8-12mp compressed jpegs, or not ?
Thank you
You get way better pictures on newer phones.
The only time you might see similar results are with perfect lighting.
Thats it.
The sensors are better.
Its one of the few things that actually evolve on phones.
I've had Xiaomi phones with 'AMAZING MEGAPIXELS'.
Its never amazing.
In low light they are so bad compared to flagships from Sony, Samsung and Google.
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
fashion_live said:
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
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None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
Nath_h57 said:
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
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If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
ekin_strops said:
If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
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thank you, yes from the advertisement or product description, one hopes for a say 108 mp good quality camera, that will offer you PLENTY of sharp details in every photograph, like...can zoom anywhere and get a new A4 to exploit. And I'm very disappointed...
ekin_strops said:
None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
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Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
fashion_live said:
Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
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check the comparison tool link I posted in the first post. Recent Xiaomi phones seem interesting regarding colour fidelity.
but anyway it relies on the ambient light as you shoot too , an app like Color Grabber may help
HipKat said:
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
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I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
fashion_live said:
I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
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I get that, but this is a phone first, not a camera and you're not going to get everything you would with an actual camera, at least at this point, although Phone cameras have come a long, long way.
I think people need to be reminded this is a communications device, primarily.
The point of the videos is that those things are taken into consideration in the comparisons.
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
96carboard said:
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
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50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
Thank you very much because everything online is VERY misleading, regarding 500 - 1500 euros investments.
I am flabbergasted because the ads and product descriptions pretend it's 50mp or more pro cameras, and they happen to be plain okay (not even but...) 12mp digicams. Nothing worth spending 1500 euros it seems. I just expected I could invest like 800 and get a pro camera too that would just let me shoot a photo, get awesome 50mp quality, zoom on the raw file and get another A4 size good cropped shot etc...on top of the disappointment, the misleading info and product description is truly disgusting
MrBelter said:
50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
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Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
tiagobt said:
Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
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The same sensor does produce 50mp images on other phones so presumably it is handled by software, personally I don't think Google will allow it.
It's definitely a software thing as my OnePlus 9's stock camera software does enable you to disable the pixel binning and take a full 50MP photo. The results are pretty terrible though because OnePlus' camera just leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes ! it's all about that, and about the availability of non-binned therefore 48mp or more images online for comparison, it took me ages to find only one of those from a Xiaomi 12s phone, so the actual quality of the camera is actually visible !!! (and not that great !) although the Xiaomi 12t pro and maybe 12s ultra are the best ones I've found so far.
The thing is they show 12mp shots shrunk to our phones' dimensions, or as a shrunk jpeg so that looks good, but that's nothing like the actual camera"s quality that only gets visible on those original non-binned shots, that's a pic that's about an iMac's screen size and it seems very little progress has occurred in five years, the best cam gives okay to good enough results in daylight but that goes with manual retouching. Unless someone proves me wrong...
Personally i don't see what the fuss is about, 12.5mp is more than adequate for printing even at A3 and as they say the best camera is the one you have in your hand, the megapixel myth seems alive and well.
My first DSLR was only 8MP and i did plenty of (paid) weddings and air shows with that.