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It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!
Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
Lawliet918 said:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
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Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony.
Apple paid Dxomark= dxomark 96 points
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life. Truth is I cant expect from camera big as fingernail to catch photos like pro digital camera. Also every model with only one main camera will fail this test. Still I am happy with xzp camera for taking pictures, even the front camera is finally good for selfies.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4XtNwH
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4AWDDW
Also we should wait for xz1 review, maybe they did some update on img processing...
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smitrovic said:
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even part of the test. If there is no actual optical zoom, what are they really testing? I see people zoom in on their smartphone cameras all the time and I wonder what the point is. Just crop the photo later. You get a better picture, and the "zoom" is effectively the same.
It's really sad and bit disappointing. I think most of the stuff they were saying true.
Couldn't care less. I didn't buy this phone for it's camera
Come on Sony... 83
Come on Sony'
I bought the XZ Premium because I already own Sony cameras. Sony is obviously the leader in sensor technology and by teaming up with Zeiss there should be no questions about the hardware. So... That only leaves one thing. Software! Apple uses Sony Sensors. Samsung likewise. Even Huawei. So we know their sensors are no better, it must be the software. Please Sony, get off your arrogant asses and give us something that's competitive. I know this 83 could be brought up to 93 if you can just give us a new update and a little software support.
I guess that wont happen ever, because Sony needs to save digital camera market tho. If they made this camera use all potential, they wont sell any 200-400 euro digital cameras.
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The initial purporpose of dxomark is to diminish any phone that lacks a second lens for bokeh and zoom and from the other side to favor the phones that have it. So i cannot take this test into consideration because it lacks any professionalism and puts double standards.
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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You can use other camera apps, just not the free versions. If you can handle a couple of euros for Camera Zoom FX you will find that the camera is not as you describe it!!! By any chance have you unlocked your bootloader? I'm sure you know that currently there is no way to backup your TA partition wich means the loss of your DRM unique key which enables camera features, and more.
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
Katsigaros said:
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
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Wasn't really my point was it. You can go buy a year old S7 or LG G6 and shoot in manual mode or in auto mode and smash the Sony out of the water.
And if you want a more stock android experience buy a Moto G5 Plus and that also beats the Sony.
The reason I know is because i have them. The way the sony was sold with improved lens, better low light due to bigger pixel size and hybrid auto focus this was supposed to be a beast of a camera. Which it isn't, not even close.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------
WildBit said:
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
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Lets hope so, I am a huge Sony fan and want them to succeeded. I've had all the xperia's since the z3 compact. I just want a camera experience which is as good as the rest of the software and hardware.
This new DXO formula is idiotic... It gives adventages to dualcam phones.
whats the point of doing bokkeh test if there is actually no bokkeh...It should be a feature, it should not affect the score, because many other phones have their own features which are not measured by DXO tests.
for example. XZP has no bokkeh, but it has wider lens, which is a big advantage for me, but there are no additional point for that in the test.
Beside that, DXO tests started to be incomparable.
Look at Iphone 8 review and XZP review. I8 review is 10x more complex - it contains way more tests than XZP review.
There are also inconsistencies like:
At the first paragraph, in the "Test Summary" section they wrote, quote:
"the XZ Premium features relatively strong autofocus performance for both photography and video, as well as very good stabilization for video."
But at the end, in the "Conclusion" section they wrote, quote:
"Video performance is also competent, but marred by problems with loss of detail and mediocre stabilization."
it is really pathetic and not professional.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
gengi said:
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
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Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
jms.flynn said:
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
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960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
gengi said:
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
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I know in certain lighting conditions it causes alot of flicker. I thought at night it would flicker but it doesnt so thats really cool. Nice video by the way.
Its like alot of people say though, as soon as Samsung or Apple do something new everyone in the world is like wow look at this. Then Sony does it and everyone is quiet about it. Our device the XZ Premium is the first to have a 4K HDR screen and is also the only device alongside the XZS and XZ1 to record at 960fps. Nobody in the world understands how cool it is to have those two features in the palm of your hand. If Samsung or Apple did it then im sure they would understand. As soon as another company besides Apple or Samsung do something cool they get criticised by their 'big bezels' which shouldnt even matter when you take into consideration the features packed into the device.
The score given for our device, I dont think its fair. If you want something fair watch a YouTube video on a comparison or review of the camera, im sure they will be more on point and accurate.
I didnt buy the phone for its camera. If someone wants to say they have an iPhone 8 with a higher score than my XZ Premium they can but I believe the scores are biased and that the rest of their scores are one-sided.
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
chefnoob said:
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
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I think everyone knows already that the Pixel has a better camera.
I know the pixel is better, but I want to understand the difference.
Up until a few weeks ago I had a Nexus 5x. I loved it, especially the camera!
However the Nexus 5x died, and I replaced it with a brand new OnePlus 5t. The screen is amazing, it's runs pretty much stock Android, and the battery life was astounding. But I returned it after 2 days because the camera wasn't even as good as my Nexus 5x.
In bright daylight the OnePlus 5t takes lovely pictures, but in every other scenario it's pretty rubbish (in my opinion).
I mainly use my camera by just whipping it out of my pocket, pointing, and shooting. The Nexus excelled at this. The OnePlus 5t gave me shots with lots of motion blur, lots of noise, and they weren't exposed properly. Most of the photos I took were unusable.
So, the OnePlus 5t went back and I got a Pixel 2. It's a smaller screen and a way worse battery life, but it's by far the best point-and-shoot camera phone I've had, even better than the Nexus 5x. To be honest it's not that much better than the Nexus 5x, but the fact it has OIS does make a big difference to some shots. I love it.
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
richhhh said:
Up until a few weeks ago I had a Nexus 5x. I loved it, especially the camera!
However the Nexus 5x died, and I replaced it with a brand new OnePlus 5t. The screen is amazing, it's runs pretty much stock Android, and the battery life was astounding. But I returned it after 2 days because the camera wasn't even as good as my Nexus 5x.
In bright daylight the OnePlus 5t takes lovely pictures, but in every other scenario it's pretty rubbish (in my opinion).
I mainly use my camera by just whipping it out of my pocket, pointing, and shooting. The Nexus excelled at this. The OnePlus 5t gave me shots with lots of motion blur, lots of noise, and they weren't exposed properly. Most of the photos I took were unusable.
So, the OnePlus 5t went back and I got a Pixel 2. It's a smaller screen and a way worse battery life, but it's by far the best point-and-shoot camera phone I've had, even better than the Nexus 5x. To be honest it's not that much better than the Nexus 5x, but the fact it has OIS does make a big difference to some shots. I love it.
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
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Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
JosephECorson said:
Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
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The 5T is using the same sensor as the 3T, so the technology is maybe 1 year newer than the 5X. Against which it's a significantly smaller sensor (less light) with more pixels (so more noise). So it's not totally shocking if the 5X camera does perform better.
Anyway, a big part of phone camera performance is the processing rather than the sensor (which Google have certainly been concentrating on in the last couple of years). And at the time of the 5T's release theirs was, well, not good. Look at this image from GSMArena's review, click on the zoom button, and when you've finished admiring the total lack of texture in the leaves and branches take a look at the grass between the fallen leaves and the house. It's many years since I've seen any camera do that type of watercolour smearing in a daylight photo, and I hope for their customers' sake that OnePlus have been doing something about this.
(It's not a one-off either: they published a set of preview photos before their review, and some of those were comically bad. You could have used them as a teaching aid to show students how not to do image processing).
JosephECorson said:
Wow, I never thought the camera was worse than the last generation smartphone. And you are saying if there is no real light the camera is not good, right?
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That was my experience, yes. It was bad in low light and bad with any movement (of either your hands holding the camera or of a subject in the frame)
I've found a lot of camera reviews for phone cameras don't take into account real-world usage. They're all set up in studios, or taking photos of a random building, or a flower, and then another flower, or a posed portrait where the subject is dead still. All very 'traditional' photography setups looking more at the colour reproduction and exposure.
Very few (non that I've actually found!) take into account how it performs as something people pull out of their pocket to capture an unposed, often badly lit, fleeting moment. If they did, most would likely find the OnePlus 5t churns out a blurry mess, and the Pixel 2 (while far from perfect and still no competition for an actual small point-and-shoot camera) does just fine.
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Large Hadron said:
Anyway, a big part of phone camera performance is the processing rather than the sensor (which Google have certainly been concentrating on in the last couple of years).
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I 100% agree with that too.
And yes, you can get the Google Camera port for other phones these days which brings their incredible HDR+ processing to other phones, and I did actually try it on the OnePlus 5t (it improved visual quality and processing, but didn't help with any of the inherent problems).
But you have to manually keep that ported/hacked app updated, and it might not be very stable, or not save the actual file sometimes.
Whereas on the Pixel/Nexus it's built in by default and 'just works', and works very well in a lot of situations, which is all you can hope for
richhhh said:
So, if you mainly take photos of things that don't move (landscapes and still life) and can stand really still when you take a photo, the OnePlus 5t will take lovely photos.
If you take photos of people/things that move, or anything indoors, then Pixel 2 (or a second-hand Nexus 5x!) will serve you way better.
Hope that helps!
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Agree with this 100%. I had the OP5T for 10 days and tried every setting I could think of and a variety of apps/apks to improve the quality but in the end there was always some compromise.
Almost all of the photos I take are of my children and the quality was particularly poor (in my opinion) if the conditions weren't perfect (lighting, kids standing perfectly still, my hands perfectly stable etc.). If you need a phone camera to 'capture the moment' by just pointing and shooting then you may be very disappointed by the 5T
Large Hadron said:
It's many years since I've seen any camera do that type of watercolour smearing in a daylight photo, and I hope for their customers' sake that OnePlus have been doing something about this.
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And the 5T sometimes did this 'watercolour smearing' to the skin on my children's faces which was the last straw for me. In many cases my older Xiaomi mi5 was taking better pictures.
So I sent it back and bought the Pixel 2 and the difference is night & day. I'm really trying to take a bad picture with the Pixel 2 but keep failing
I currently use an OP5 which i am pretty happy about (great performance, fast charging and no bloat), except for the rear camera (using stock camera app). It sometimes mess up skin tones creating a water pastel kind of effect and i find its low light performance questionable. I mostly take pictures of my kids, and it is frustrating when this happen since usually its not a posed photo where you can just try again.
I am considering upgrading to the OP7 Pro, but i am really confused about the camera performance. DxoMark has it scoring very high (using a different firmware?), and many reviewers also rank it among the best, while several others complain about horrible performance.
So, what i want to ask is:
1. Is the OP7 Pro camera a significant upgrade over the OP5?
2. Has the new firmware been released, and has it addressed the photo quality concerns?
3. Is the OP7 Pro rear camera on par with P30 Pro and S10+ ignoring zoom capabilities?
The camera is okay, I'd say it's better than my lg g6, so it should be an upgrade over the op5. It has the potential to be just as good as my s9+ camera, and sometimes it is just as good, sometimes it's just not.
Personally I'd say if camera performance is more important to you than price, unlockability, or bloat, go with the s10. If you want something that feels like a better op5 go with the op7p, but the camera will most likely not be able to compete with the s10. I'd also say avoid the p30 pro because I don't think you should spend $700-800 on something that will only get updates for a few more months.
Camera performance for me is fine, I never really use my camera, when I do I'm not trying to take artsy shots, and every time I take a picture its good enough to get my point across.
It's definitely an upgrade over the op5i had and it's an upgrade over my op6 camera as well.
I upgraded from OP5 to OP7Pro and honestly, it is a big upgrade. After tweaking the gCam stuff for a while, while there are times that the stock camera has better results, the gCam team have done an outstanding job pushing the camera hardware to their fullest.
The display alone is worth it. Complete eye candy.
explosivequack said:
Personally I'd say if camera performance is more important to you than price, unlockability, or bloat, go with the s10. If you want something that feels like a better op5 go with the op7p, but the camera will most likely not be able to compete with the s10. I'd also say avoid the p30 pro because I don't think you should spend $700-800 on something that will only get updates for a few more months.
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I really dislike the Samsung software, it is significantly more expensive and it has a front-camera in the display (i prefer a pop-up because i only rarely take selfies and because i prefer fingerprint unlock), so it would have to a significant difference in camera performance.
Why will the P30 Pro only get updates for a few more months? I had considered it, but disliked paying more for a somewhat slower device.
ziphnor said:
I really dislike the Samsung software, it is significantly more expensive and it has a front-camera in the display (i prefer a pop-up because i only rarely take selfies and because i prefer fingerprint unlock), so it would have to a significant difference in camera performance.
Why will the P30 Pro only get updates for a few more months? I had considered it, but disliked paying more for a somewhat slower device.
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samsungs one ui is a lot better than it used to be, the front camera on the s10+ is probably significantly better than the front camera of the op7p because it doesn't focus. Back camera probably won't be as significant as the front.
The United States has stuff going on where companies can't do business with huawei, including google. They have a 90 day thing going on so for 90 days Huawei will continue to get updates, but if the trade ban isn't reversed in 90 days Huawei will only be allowed to use aosp, and not use any of googles goodness.
The camera can be inconsistent. But the hardware is up there with the best and can come out with comparable results. Just still some software and processing to be tweaked
Stock is horrible. It destroys fine detail with poor post processing and forget about wide angle or panorama shots. Gcam helps a lot with detail but colours aren't great.
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
May be an unpopular opinion but if your main concern is camera, the Pixel 3a might be worth looking at.
I only say 3a to also save some money. The Pixel 3 XL could be an option too, if you are willing to pay more. I just couldn't stand the notch and some performance issues that were reported by others as well.
As for the 7 Pro, the camera definitely isn't the strong point of this device, but I'm sure it does a better job than the 5. Even if software hasn't improved much, the hardware upgrade should be good enough to get better quality pictures compared to the OP5.
Hi guys,
I'm currently using OnePlus 3T and after almost 3 years it's about time to buy new phone.
I'm not a gamer and I mainly use the phone for taking pictures, web and navigation.
Picture quality is the first thing I look for - it must be superb
I know that this is OP thread but I believe many of the users here switched from pixel to op.
what phone would you recommend? pixel 3a spec are outdated but maybe its still good enough for my usage for the next 2-3 years.
Do you think that OP can improve the software to match the quality of the pixel?
I've heard about the gcam porting but still the picture quality is not as good as taking photos with the pixel.
Or maybe should I wait to October where Google announces the pixel 4 and maybe the pixel 4a
Your help will be highly appreciated
Thanks
Go for OnePlus
OnePlus 7 is good, or 7 Pro if you don't mind curved edge. (I hate it)
Wait for the Pixel 4 XL since it is so close to being released. Tho i do love my OnePlus 7 pro. Pixels have the best camera.
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Chanbingo said:
OnePlus 7 is good, or 7 Pro if you don't mind curved edge. (I hate it)
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I got use to the curved glass thanks to the Galaxy S8/9/10, just use a case and usually solves the accidental touches
pixel 4 would cost x1.5 for sure, don't want to spend too much
I really like the OP 3T so upgrading to 7 plus seems like the right choice.
What do you think about 7 vs 7 plus? the plus worth the extra penny?
Similar boat here, especially as a 3a XL can be had for £270 on EE from CeX at grade A (as new) whilst an OP7 is £500 upwards... and I do care about photo quality...
Thing is you do get much more with the OnePlus. You get IMO the better ROM - Pixel stock is nice, I've tried Pixel Experience on my old Moto G5 and it's great, but it's also quite basic. If you want things like screen recording, scrolling screenshots etc then you need third party software and have to battle with the battery saving features to stop them getting closed etc. They have a really nice balance where they add just enough genuinely useful features without turning it into bloatware. Only thing you miss out on is "Now Playing" which I must admit would be nice.
You get the in-display fingerprint reader making it way more convenient for "phone on desk" scenarios.
You get the mute slider which I've missed during my time on other phones.
You get, obviously, better and faster everything else except possibly shorter battery life (not sure, but the 3aXL is well regarded that way).
But true, there's no solid guarantee on camera quality. I know OP have a team dedicated to improving it so am having a bit of faith in it (and don't really mind installing Gcam for now if I can find a good universal install-and-forget version) but if guaranteed photo quality is of paramount importance even above all else mentioned then Pixel is the way to go. I know the dilemma very well as I've been agonising over the same thing (oh our first world problems!) but I had a 3T a couple of years ago and regret ever switching from it. It was hands down the best smartphone I've ever owned, and that past experience (plus wanting more RAM so I can e.g. keep Pokemon Go from being closed so much) is also pushing me towards the OP7, come what may. I'm not sure the camera is as 'bad' as some people make out - nerds are champions when it comes to complaining
supergear said:
Wait for the Pixel 4 XL since it is so close to being released. Tho i do love my OnePlus 7 pro. Pixels have the best camera.
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I got use to the curved glass thanks to the Galaxy S8/9/10, just use a case and usually solves the accidental touches
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Cloudane said:
Similar boat here, especially as a 3a XL can be had for £270 on EE from CeX at grade A (as new) whilst an OP7 is £500 upwards... and I do care about photo quality...
Thing is you do get much more with the OnePlus. You get IMO the better ROM - Pixel stock is nice, I've tried Pixel Experience on my old Moto G5 and it's great, but it's also quite basic. If you want things like screen recording, scrolling screenshots etc then you need third party software and have to battle with the battery saving features to stop them getting closed etc. They have a really nice balance where they add just enough genuinely useful features without turning it into bloatware. Only thing you miss out on is "Now Playing" which I must admit would be nice.
You get the in-display fingerprint reader making it way more convenient for "phone on desk" scenarios.
You get the mute slider which I've missed during my time on other phones.
You get, obviously, better and faster everything else except possibly shorter battery life (not sure, but the 3aXL is well regarded that way).
But true, there's no solid guarantee on camera quality. I know OP have a team dedicated to improving it so am having a bit of faith in it (and don't really mind installing Gcam for now if I can find a good universal install-and-forget version) but if guaranteed photo quality is of paramount importance even above all else mentioned then Pixel is the way to go. I know the dilemma very well as I've been agonising over the same thing (oh our first world problems!) but I had a 3T a couple of years ago and regret ever switching from it. It was hands down the best smartphone I've ever owned, and that past experience is also pushing me towards the OP7, come what may. I'm not sure the camera is as 'bad' as some people make out - nerds are champions when it comes to complaining
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I totally agree, you're up for OP7 not OP7 plus? would like to hear your thoughts here as well
embedded123 said:
I totally agree, you're up for OP7 not OP7 plus? would like to hear your thoughts here as well
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Yeah I can't justify paying an extra £150 for 90Hz (which I don't want to get addicted to as then other screens will look bad to me and it'll end up restricting my tech purchases), telephoto lens (with so many megapixels these days, cropping or variations of AI digital zoom should be good enough for me) or wide angle lens (this I want the most and was agonising about last night, but... 150 quid.... and I can get a clip on). Other than that it's about the same device? Slightly faster charging which I'm not bothered about as Dash Charge is super fast already.
I can actually think of a couple of advantages to the non-Pro IMO. One being that the Pro apparently has quite 'aggressive' curves to the display. Now, I have an S9 currently and to be fair I think the curving on that looks quite nice and rarely notice any distortion, but from what I've seen of the 7Pro you get a more noticeable version of the greenish tint that appears from indirect viewing angles, I think it'd possibly bug me, not sure without seeing one in person.
Another being no moving parts. I'm sure the selfie camera is very well tested, but I'd rather not.
Plus... well no smartphone these days is good for one handed use, but let's say it's slightly less bad
And despite absolutely loathing notches initially, they've had this weird effect of growing on me (just as the industry is finding ways to get rid of them, lol). The teardrop actually looks quite 'cute' in my eyes.
Plus one sort of 'political' reason: I don't want to encourage OP to keep hiking prices up, or come next year they'll just be yet another manufacturer of smartphones that cost over a grand. I want to support their mid range flagship killer business.
OnePlus 7 Pro or Pixel 4. The Pixel 3a can't even compete. It also depends on how much you'd like to spend.
Google's stock OS is lacking behind OOS. It lacks any real innovations as Google is afraid of change, evidence by the lack of dark mode in apps and OS until now (5 or 6 years after it's been available in custom ROMs).
The 3xl just can't compete with the OP 7 pro. The 7 pro is faster, another, 90hz screen faster charging, larger screen and the specs are outdated in comparison (SD855, 6/8/12 gb ram and minimum of 128gb storage). The battery in mine lasts all day with heavy use and I'm averaging 9+ hours of sot.
The pixel has a slightly better camera in low light but day time shots there is no discernable difference between the 2. It also gets updates faster but 4-6 weeks difference is nothing compared to phones like Samsung which can take 6 months or longer.
So the only reasons you should buy a 3xl is the low light camera is the most important feature you can settle for or for some reason you feel that security you're are a must the instant they are out. Or you're penny pinching and can get the 3xl cheaper.