Hi folks,
I am presently playing around with my P40 Pro, especially the camera as this is of special interest for me.
I am comparing with a Oneplus 8 Pro.
What I noticed is that the P40 Pro camera is giving a lot more blurred images at medium to lower lighting, in fact it's surprisingly diffcult for me to get a sharp indoor shot.
This is on .122 Firmware and I am bit at a loss on how to tackle this, in fact it's a bit disappointing for such a hyped camera.
Isn't the P40 pro camera supposed to have OIS?
And this is with very comparable aperture and shutter speed between OP8P and P40P...
Am I the only one? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Axel
Are you using Google services?
Noexcusses said:
Are you using Google services?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?
What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur? Motion blur is caused by slower shutter speed. Focus blur by focus failure. There is also blur(bokeh) caused by much bigger camera sensor used in P40 PRO. So depending what your subject is you may experience different results. Longer shutter speed and lower ISO is preferred for best image quality as long as you have static scene. But in scene with moving object, object in motion can be blurred. Personally I am on .121 and I rarely get blured photo due to any phenomena described above.
D1G1TE said:
What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it seems like motion blur from camera shake... But images at around 1/30s with OIS should normally be fine - at least they are on the other handsets I tried...
This is why I am asking, maybe OIS is not working... Anybody got an idea to test this with some tool?
Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case
TomFordGoesForth said:
Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that's my fear.... Well, I am still within the return period, maybe it makes sense to go back to the dealer instead...
EDIT: seems a factory reset fixed it, now I need to discuss with myself whether I try to go without Google for the time being....
s3axel said:
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very interesting, would you mind sharing your findings/theory ?
Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though
Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services...
This installing method on Google services witch you need to go on apps and delete playstore etc i think is the keys for the problem... We need a clean installation without deletations..
s3axel said:
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
Observation about the lines in the foto. Lines are reflections from lights. I realised it today. Im testing camera without Google services. Tomorrow i will test on daylight.. I think 121 update is bad update.. is there any way to roal back to 112?
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for checking this out, then I am a bit reassured
Hopefully this is fixed with a near term update because this really sucks!
Don't know I rolling back is possible,will need to investigate a bit more....
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also disappointed with this update (121) pics quality is average but video quality is lower than on p20 pro.
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
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Click to collapse
Erm ... I don't see anything wrong with that picture.
You focused on the closed petal at the left side, it's perfectly sharp, rest blurred as it should be. Not the prettiest bokeh, but okay.
Do I overlook something?
---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------
Noexcusses said:
Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I don't see what's wrong with that picture. Maybe you could point out the problem a bit more in detail?
It would also be quite helpful for sorting out culprits if you (and anyone else) accompany your pictures with some EXIF data, like shooting mode, AI on/off, ISO, exposure, aperture and zoom factor. Unfortunately, XDA seems to remove that data from posted pictures.
---------- Post added at 07:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------
forever_lol said:
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.
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Click to collapse
That's indeed the case with firmware .121. And it's far worse in the "Pro" mode, rendering "Pro" mode almost useless.
Let's hope the next updates home in on that fault.
Look the sharpness on 112 version
Noexcusses said:
Look the sharpness on 112 version
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Click to collapse
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.
Klosterbruder said:
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jeasus Christ i never used 50 mp sesnor i use the normal sensor for the red flower and also same sensor with pink flower... im changing so many phones every year and i can clearly understand what a foto needs! P40 pro with 122 version is less detailed on normal shots than with 112 , i need t use night mode on day light fotos to get some sharpness..
Also the foto you have posted there is no detailed at all i can taje same photo with my xiaomi mia 3 Stock camera apk... and i can get also much better shots withy GCAM on mia 3!
Related
Hi Guys,
I asked myself how the zoom on my Z3 should work.
As far as I know, the Z3 can Zoom into the sensor while taking 8mpix pictures.
While I tried it, it seemed to me that the quality gets really bad.
I was guessing that the indicator on the left is the indicator which separates digital zoom from the sensor-zoom.
As far as I thought the light grey indicator-bar shows the part which is the sensor zoom and the dark part is the digital zoom.
Considering the quality it seems to me that both modes are digital zoom. The picture looks really annoying while i use it.
I just thought maybe I'm doing something wrong - has anyone an idea how I can improve this or use it right or or or...
Regards,
Matthias
I didn't know about the 8mp restriction, i also tested it out in the shop, but in 20mp mode. The sections looked identical. However, as the sensor is not at it's limits at 8mp, i guess it could take a higher resolution and crop it to 8mp size at the zoomed in section.
Auto mode enables you to use the camera's Clear Zoom feature, which produces good-looking, lossless-like digital zoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the image is stretched by the software, which then attempts to fill in the blanks as best as it can. Well, thanks to the giant sensors on the Nokia Lumia 1020 and Sony Xperia Z1/Z1 Compact, zoom is no longer a problem. But instead of opting for bulky zoom lens (Galaxy S4 Zoom), they both rely on their massive resolution in order to get what we call 'lossless' zoom.
So what's lossless zoom, then? In simple terms, it means that zooming into a scene will only result in a negligible loss in quality. Think of it this way: there are so many pixels available with a camera like the one on the 1020 that you can 'crop' any part of the photo and still have more than enough pixels for a full-sized photo that will appear zoomed in. No upscaling, and no loss of quality. But how does it work in practice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More info about everything
http://www.phonearena.com/news/What...-work-in-the-Lumia-1020-and-Xperia-Z1_id52198
So conclusion is, it is all digital zoom
electrash said:
More info about everything
http://www.phonearena.com/news/What...-work-in-the-Lumia-1020-and-Xperia-Z1_id52198
So conclusion is, it is all digital zoom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, it is something like digital zoom. But I think, the quality while zooming into an 8mpix picture should not be worse in quality (depending on the zoom factor) than the 20mpix picture.
When I take a 8 mpix picture, I assume that the image processor will take it in 20mpix and shrink it down to 8.
And what I would like to see is that
I could zoom in and it will just move into the sensor to a 1:1 size.
Another thing : while using the video mode, the stabilizer does an amazing job.
What about the photo-mode? I can't see any stabilisation there.
Since I only take 8mpi pictures, I guess the picture-frame could also be panned around the 20m of the sensor...
Regards,
Matthias
Maeffjus said:
Okay, it is something like digital zoom. But I think, the quality while zooming into an 8mpix picture should not be worse in quality (depending on the zoom factor) than the 20mpix picture.
When I take a 8 mpix picture, I assume that the image processor will take it in 20mpix and shrink it down to 8.
And what I would like to see is that
I could zoom in and it will just move into the sensor to a 1:1 size.
Another thing : while using the video mode, the stabilizer does an amazing job.
What about the photo-mode? I can't see any stabilisation there.
Since I only take 8mpi pictures, I guess the picture-frame could also be panned around the 20m of the sensor...
Regards,
Matthias
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In SA mode, phone take oversampled photo (which means he take 21mp, but he make HD pixel (one pixel combine colors from neibghours)... so when you take 8mpx it takes 20mp ovesampled.
When you zoom in, it will take more and more neibhours pixel to combine in one, so that means loseless.
I've been honor 8 since one week and i have found one thing that when even i cover right side lens it capture black image but when ever i cover left side sensor it's take snappy sharp image like it's ideally take . So i think so it's just fake second camera is dummy or any other problem ? please let me know i'm worried for my money
Are the pictures good? If so then don't worry about it.
Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk
From my experience the second camera is mostly used for background blur effect. If you cover the lens, everything is in focus.
It is also used for minor noise reduction. If you take a picture in low light and cover the secondary lens there is a little bit more noise. But you won't really notice it unless you enlarge the image.
well the fact that when you block one lens, the other works is proof that neither is dummy. perhaps the post processing is not that dramatic as you were expecting. try taking low light pics with both and just the normal lens then compare them by zooming.
no difference found
I've tried in low light too but second lens is just a fake . it's don't enhances quality i think so i have to wait for android N update
sn9691 said:
well the fact that when you block one lens, the other works is proof that neither is dummy. perhaps the post processing is not that dramatic as you were expecting. try taking low light pics with both and just the normal lens then compare them by zooming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the pictures the Honor 8 takes when using the Wide Aperture mode. It seems the second camera is essential for creating the blur effect. If you haven't noticed you can go into the Stock Huawei Gallery and adjust the wide aperture pictures after the fact. Even if you took a picture that looked like you focused in on the wrong thing, just go into the Gallery, click on the wide aperture button (only shows up on wide aperture pictures) and select what you wanted to focus on.
Sure enough, without the second camera the wide aperture mode doesn't work properly if at all.
Second lens is for focusing, depth of field, and additional light. As well, when covering the second lens, it persistently gives a warning about not covering the lens while shooting, especially when refocusing. I think this should be enough to disprove your "fake camera" theory.
Hi everyone!
Which resolution do you use, 12 mpx or 20 mpx? 12mpx gives you hybrid zoom x2 but phone only uses rgb lens, while 20mpx supposedly uses both lenses to create a hybrid colour/b&w pic. So which do you use? I have it on 12mpx in order to use zoom but don't really know which is best.
Cheers!
It actually depends on your preference and the situation you want to create in the photo. I use the 20mp when shooting wide angle landscapes, while im using the 12mp when shooting portraits or closeups
earl_110 said:
It actually depends on your preference and the situation you want to create in the photo. I use the 20mp when shooting wide angle landscapes, while im using the 12mp when shooting portraits or closeups
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying! I've actually found that shooting a normal close up pic on 12mpx shoots in kind of a wide-angle effect. Last friday celebrating carnival at school, I was able to fit in a whole class of 28 kids from a few feet away. If u look at the pic, it looks like it has been shot on a wide-angle lens!
Any more opinions on camera config are more than welcome!
I don't believe that the 20MPx option uses both cameras. When you partially cover the B&W sensor, there is no noticable effect on the photo. Looks like it is only software based up-scaling and may get you jagged edges sometimes. After some testing with 20MPx and then 20MPx resized to 12MPx just for comparison, I prefer the 12MPx default setting.
_Marian_ said:
I don't believe that the 20MPx option uses both cameras. When you partially cover the B&W sensor, there is no noticable effect on the photo. Looks like it is only software based up-scaling and may get you jagged edges sometimes. After some testing with 20MPx and then 20MPx resized to 12MPx just for comparison, I prefer the 12MPx default setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Marian, thanks for your reply!
So on a phone with a dual camera, what would be the purpose of the dual lens?? If one is rgb and the other monocrome, don't they both work together to provide depth information and zoom? Or do all colour pics use just the one rgb lens and the other is exclusively for b&w pics?? Seems a little pointless to me...
You are totally right about the sw upscale to 20mp as any other camera app only detects a maximum resolution of 12 mp, but it seems strange to me that even on 12mp colour pictutes, the phone wouldn't use both lens (depth and zoom) because the inferior P20 Lite precisely doess that on all the reviews I read about it (I've always thought that was the point of all dual-lens cameras).
Cheers!
The B&W sensor should provide depth information. You can try different camera modes and cover the B&W sensor. The phone says "Please do not cover the lenses." in some camera modes. But if you don't put finger too close, nothing happens. I can't tell it does anything at all to the image quality which seems strange. Did they made some mistake in latest build? It only does have some effect on aperture mode when you can see heat haze effect on display. It sucks we don't have more options like jpg quality or sliders for post-process filters.
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
You will be blown by the photos you take with the normal version so you don't need to buy the pro version 6GB ram and 128GB Storage is enough for everything from gaming to taking photos, browsing and anything i can say.
No I really don't care about the more RAM and Rom. Just curious about the photos only!
I ordered the Pro. Should arrive next week. Frankie Tech on youtube will upload a camera comparison of the two very soon.
cycloholic said:
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amount of lens group doesnt mean you can capture more light. Extra lens is used for correcting distortion, color aberration etc. The apperture itself is the same pro or not pro. So it should be able to capture same amount of light.
in daily usage, difference in camera result will be minor
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
adira.mardiani said:
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
For more details about how sensor size affecting focus area :
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
otonieru said:
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Kasallamacher said:
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i wrote above,
The extra lens definitely not for lol. Extra lens element is used for variety of reasons, mostly to correct distortion and color aberration. But definitely not for extra light reasons.
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually in a Lens group, more len can capture more light is true.
for example, 8p lens maybe capture 99.5% of light, but 7p lens maybe only 99.2%.
The different is not big.
But "more light" is not the major benefit.
Usually more lens may correct the image better to fit the sensor.
Mi note 10 pro has problem focusing
otonieru said:
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi otonieru
I appreciate you explaining the relationship between sensor size and depth of field.
My new note 10 pro main camera seems to have trouble focusing even in good day light, it repeatedly focuses on the background instead of the person i want to photograph, even though i physically tap the person's face on screen. The 5x camera focuses fine though.
Do you think this is a hardware or software issue?
Many thanks!
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
blackhawk said:
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
TheNewLegend said:
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
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You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
blackhawk said:
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
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Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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Click to collapse
Remember there's more than one cam... Friends? Never watched it.
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
beserker15 said:
They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
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For wide angle use the save option to automatically apply correction. This is for primarily image distortion though.
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
brachiopod said:
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
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Wonder if it just automatically does it now?
That screenshot is from my N10+ running on Pie... meh, I don't like rude surprises
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
ssglackey said:
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
TheNewLegend said:
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
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Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already did that too
TheNewLegend said:
I already did that too
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I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
ssglackey said:
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
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Click to collapse
Mine is sd so it is..
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the standard 12Mpix mode everything far enough is sharp and in focus, using the same lens, only in 108Mpix mode you see this issue. Your statement is valid, but with tiny sensors in smartphones all distant object must be equally in focus. I can't achieve such blur for distant object with Full frame mirrorless (35mm f1.8) and that is another league.
TheNewLegend said:
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
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Click to collapse
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
After a comparison with s21 ultra there was a slight difference in sharpness, however I don't know why but the colors were much better with the s21.
I'll compare them again later.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like glackey said, even with my FF camera both of the subjects will be in focus, I don't think that DOF is the issue here.
steveroysston said:
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
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Both of the phones were steady and the lens was clean.