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Greetings my dear Mi A1 brethren! Today I am the bearer of bad news for you guys. From unreleased source codes to headphone hissing. This problem is the final nail in Xiaomi's coffin for me. I will never ever buy another Xiaomi device again.
I have reason to believe that the "dual" camera setup on the Xiaomi is FAKE! Let me show you. Follow these steps:
1) Open up the camera app.
2) Cover ONE of the two camera lenses at the back with your finger.
2) Zoom in to 2x mode (or greater).
Did you notice something? THE CAMERA LENSES DO NOT SWITCH! The main point of the Mi A1's dual camera setup is that one lens is wide angle and the other is telephoto (as mentioned on their website). When you zoom in, the app should automatically switch cameras.
Another test is that the dual camera setup should provide a background blur (bokeh effect) on objects that are up close to the camera. Cover a lens with one of your fingers and you'll see that either the camera gets blocked by the finger or the blur effect still remains (regardless of the fact that TWO cameras are needed for a proper bokeh effect)!
Both these tests prove that one of the Xiaomi Mi A1 cameras is a dummy. Has Xiaomi lied to us again? Why would Google let them do this?
Or is it that I don't understand how dual cameras work? Someone please enlighten me. I feel I've wasted 250$ of my hard earned cash on a scam
EDIT: Nevermind! I just found out it does work. But only in manual mode or portrait mode. Strange that the app does not switch to telephoto mode automatically. Perhaps in a future update.
Have you tried manual mode
MayanKKaushik said:
Have you tried manual mode
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Yes, I did. I've edited the OP. I feel like a goof for not trying that first
No its real!
Try that in outdoor lighting conditions.
In natural lighting cover the zoom lens, and then hit the 2x zoom.
You will notice that the zoom lens is functional in good lighting conditions, not in bad light conditions.
Same with the portrait mode, thats why it is recommended to use 2x optical zoom and portrait mode in outdoor lighting conditions.
The camera decides if it should use digital zoom or telephoto lens depending on light conditions. Telephoto zoom only works with a lot of light(like portrait). If there is not enough light, digital zoom from wide angle lens is better. This even happens on iphone 7plus/8plus camera set up(if there is not enough light they just use digital zoom). However, I think that maybe it switches to wide angle digital zoom sometimes in good light conditions.
I can understand that you were concerned but please test things thoroughly before posting (or maybe Google it out). Actually the telephoto camera have a narrower aperture then the main camera. So it captures less light then the primary camera. When who cover the telephoto camera to see if it is working or not, then hit x2, it detects that there is low light (since you are covering the lens) & hence uses the primary camera. Okay, so this is how you should have tested. First go to a very will lit environment, then select 2x zoom, and then try covering the telephone camera. You will get the proper results. Hope this helps.
It's the same in Oneplus 5, for example!
Telephoto works properly only in good light situation
RayDnafsa said:
Yes, I did. I've edited the OP. I feel like a goof for not trying that first
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should already have done that before starting a thread like this.
2017 dumbass award goes to you. smart alec.
erimin5 said:
should already have done that before starting a thread like this.
2017 dumbass award goes to you. smart alec.
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If you want to know before clicking a photo which lens is used for 2x zoom just look at the animation when you use the zoom button. If theirs an animation of zooming then it's digital zoom & if it is directly switching to 2x or 1x then it is actually switching between the lenses. And it won't change with a future update too as the OP hopes. Works the same way even on iPhones. It OK to have questions but you went too far calling it a scam, fake & never buying from Xiaomi again.
jazzthe#1 said:
No its real!
Try that in outdoor lighting conditions.
In natural lighting cover the zoom lens, and then hit the 2x zoom.
You will notice that the zoom lens is functional in good lighting conditions, not in bad light conditions.
Same with the portrait mode, thats why it is recommended to use 2x optical zoom and portrait mode in outdoor lighting conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But please help me, now my stock camera app there is no portrait and 2x mode , they're disappear after i've flash it to RR custom rom, but when i back to stock rom through miflash, the camera is still facing the same problems
Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
MartinDimchev said:
Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wide aperture mode and potrait mode are similar. I think the only difference is you can alter the blur in wide aperture...
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
So sadly we talk here only about one sensor that still is damn nice, so at least for me its not big deal.
As for portrait mode... It would be nice to have but what we really expect from it?
Most of portrait modes on phones are actually the same as "beautification mode" where camera just slightly blur skin color and do some really small blur on background.
Its not really much and I actually found out that "beautification mode" in our device at level 3-4 do the trick just fine. Also "Food Mode" is pretty nice for portrait, it bump colors and(not sure if its me or that function) focus more on close objects so background have that light blur.
Other thing is that if you really want to make nice portrait mode... Expert mode is best to do it. Yes it need that few seconds to get set it up depending on lighting condition, but for most of time its a matter of selecting aperture mode, AF to manual(its tricky on phone but you can get used to it) and correction of exposition.
Also people should not be afraid of post processing. This is something that actually distinguishes professional photography from amateur. Whole magic of nice image is correcting it after taking picture. Not some heavy photoshoping, but "correcting image".
People today want everything automated and expect professional results. They take 100000 pictures and want them all to be nice.
Yes, photography is about taking lots of pictures, but what matter is to choose that one best, and polish it as much as possible.
Taking portrait is not different, you take few pictures, choose best one and polish it a bit after that.
You will never get perfect result with automatic mode in first try, this need some luck or proper preparation of scene, that no one really do when take pictures using camera.
The wide aperature (not called selective focus) is actually the portrait mode, similar to the one on iPhones(also on Note8).
It does use both cameras to percieve depth and create a bokeh/blur effect.
And if you are talking about P10's portrait mode, it is just the wide aperture mode along with beauty mode combined, and is inferior.
I think P9 does a decent job with it's potraits. It's not the best when compared to Pixel, iPhone and Note 8. But a little bit of tweaking and manually taking the photo at a good distance from subject. You can get great results. Plus you can't expect everything to be in the phone, as there are certain. limitations hardware wise. Best you can do is to see tutorials or find ways to manually tweak camera settings. Or you could get Autofocus, terrific free app that allows you to make potriats out of normal photos and it's very good.
Personally I don't find it the same as Portrait Mode on other phones. Especially with objects it's ridiculosly bad. About the two cameras I guess there is a way to make them work together and give great results. But even if they add it only for the one camera I would be really happy. It's not necessary but would be nice to have it. We see they are adding new things this one will be wellcome.
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
Because everyone knows how to use manual settings to achieve it right? Not so simple. Mode is better.
If you managed to ride a bike, create google account, register on xda forum and use phone it self at all, manual mode will be peace of cake.
Its a matter of just remembering what option do what, and you have really just 6 options where 2 of them are really clear to understand and not used too much(White Balance and Focus Mode that is just manual and auto).
Separated modes are handy, but they often "try to hard to be inteligent" and mess thing up. Its especially frustrating when you transfer images to PC and realize that image on phone look totally different than on PC, especially in terms of contrast and details...
Akinaro said:
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
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Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
galakty said:
Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
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There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
Akinaro said:
There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
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Click to collapse
Hmmmm... Im not talking about human eyes
The difference is too small to catch it, but if You look into file sizes and at histogram there IS a difference. Not huge, but there is.
The problem is... Huawei told us, they're using two sensors to produce one image. And its true, but its not like as twice as much light unfortunately. Difference is too little to catch it and say that. Covering the second lens is cutting some highlights, thats all... (right side of histogram).
I would love to, that camera is taking light with monochrome sensor and then putting colors on it... It would be AMAZING! Just take color and monochrome photos with same scenery. The monochrome photo is almost twice as fast as color (or has twice less ISO).
Why is that? I dont know, its a shame. Anyway its super camera still.
EDIT: Maybe for different ROMs its different?
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
Jan Philipp said:
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
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Click to collapse
You can't reproduce wide aperture effect with pro settings. You can't adjust focal length or aperture.
Akinaro said:
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
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Click to collapse
I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
joser0913 said:
I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
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Click to collapse
eh... I said that, quote: ""So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick"". I was referring all the time to two identical sensors. Read whole topic...
I mentioned that having telephoto is different story, quote: ""(...) you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.""
But still as I said al whats matter is quality of that sensor and software side of it(algorithms), there is lots of phones and camera with just one senor but because of quality of optic and optimized software it give you better end results when you compare it to any dual cam in 1:1 comparison
Hi folks,
I am presently playing around with my P40 Pro, especially the camera as this is of special interest for me.
I am comparing with a Oneplus 8 Pro.
What I noticed is that the P40 Pro camera is giving a lot more blurred images at medium to lower lighting, in fact it's surprisingly diffcult for me to get a sharp indoor shot.
This is on .122 Firmware and I am bit at a loss on how to tackle this, in fact it's a bit disappointing for such a hyped camera.
Isn't the P40 pro camera supposed to have OIS?
And this is with very comparable aperture and shutter speed between OP8P and P40P...
Am I the only one? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Axel
Are you using Google services?
Noexcusses said:
Are you using Google services?
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Click to collapse
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?
What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur? Motion blur is caused by slower shutter speed. Focus blur by focus failure. There is also blur(bokeh) caused by much bigger camera sensor used in P40 PRO. So depending what your subject is you may experience different results. Longer shutter speed and lower ISO is preferred for best image quality as long as you have static scene. But in scene with moving object, object in motion can be blurred. Personally I am on .121 and I rarely get blured photo due to any phenomena described above.
D1G1TE said:
What do you exactly mean by blurred photos. Motion blur or out of focus blur?
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Click to collapse
To me it seems like motion blur from camera shake... But images at around 1/30s with OIS should normally be fine - at least they are on the other handsets I tried...
This is why I am asking, maybe OIS is not working... Anybody got an idea to test this with some tool?
Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case
TomFordGoesForth said:
Have you contacted Huawei customer support? Could be faulty, it also may be worth checking out the huawei community page to see if that is the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that's my fear.... Well, I am still within the return period, maybe it makes sense to go back to the dealer instead...
EDIT: seems a factory reset fixed it, now I need to discuss with myself whether I try to go without Google for the time being....
s3axel said:
Yes... Why?... Is there a known influence?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very interesting, would you mind sharing your findings/theory ?
Noexcusses said:
Yes some Google services effecting camera... I have tested many ways..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though
Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services...
This installing method on Google services witch you need to go on apps and delete playstore etc i think is the keys for the problem... We need a clean installation without deletations..
s3axel said:
Well, it fits to my experience, as written above. Sadly that nails the coffin then, the P40 Pro is going back Thanks for sharing, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
Observation about the lines in the foto. Lines are reflections from lights. I realised it today. Im testing camera without Google services. Tomorrow i will test on daylight.. I think 121 update is bad update.. is there any way to roal back to 112?
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for checking this out, then I am a bit reassured
Hopefully this is fixed with a near term update because this really sucks!
Don't know I rolling back is possible,will need to investigate a bit more....
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also disappointed with this update (121) pics quality is average but video quality is lower than on p20 pro.
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.
Noexcusses said:
Here its a foto without Google services... Still no sharp almost blur... I think is Just the 121 update is worst than out of the box 112 version
We just w8 the 127 update
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Click to collapse
Erm ... I don't see anything wrong with that picture.
You focused on the closed petal at the left side, it's perfectly sharp, rest blurred as it should be. Not the prettiest bokeh, but okay.
Do I overlook something?
---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------
Noexcusses said:
Yeah, firlando code method creates on my night shots some effect lines and on a1234567 method i have good night shots but blurry fotos on daylight... Today i will try to use my phone without Googleplay services....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I don't see what's wrong with that picture. Maybe you could point out the problem a bit more in detail?
It would also be quite helpful for sorting out culprits if you (and anyone else) accompany your pictures with some EXIF data, like shooting mode, AI on/off, ISO, exposure, aperture and zoom factor. Unfortunately, XDA seems to remove that data from posted pictures.
---------- Post added at 07:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------
forever_lol said:
Zoom doesn't seem to work properly either - it's digital up to 8,5 -10 x then periscope kicks in.
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Click to collapse
That's indeed the case with firmware .121. And it's far worse in the "Pro" mode, rendering "Pro" mode almost useless.
Let's hope the next updates home in on that fault.
Look the sharpness on 112 version
Noexcusses said:
Look the sharpness on 112 version
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Click to collapse
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.
Klosterbruder said:
EXIF data? Answers to me previous questions?
These are important information, e. g. telling me about the aperture of the lens used, making a difference regarding depth of field, possibly explaining why you *perceive* a picture as not okay.
Besides that:
Similar quality, similar sharpness - if not identical.
This time, there was more distance to the subject, widening the depth of field, the "sharpness range."
Let's assume the picture was taken with the main 50 MP camera, having an aperture of f/1.9 - a big difference to the aperture of the telephoto lens with f/3.4.
The smaller the f-number, the larger the physical lens opening. And the larger the physical lens opening, the shallower, smaller the depth of field.
Meaning: With a shallow depth of field, a few millimeters more or less distance to the subject can make the difference between razorsharp and blurry. Result: Only objects exactly within the depth of field are rendered sharp.
With a wide depth of field and a larger distance, like with the telephoto lens, it's less crucial, every part of the flower will be sharp.
I would show you example pictures if I was allowed to use external links - but my post count is still too low.
Just try taking pictures of the same flower with different lenses, one with the 50 MP main camera, one with the telephoto lens. With the latter, increase the distance till the flower roughly occupies the same space in the viewfinder as with the main camera.
Important: Use a zoom factor of 10, not 5 - this makes sure your really switch to the telephoto lens. At present, there's a software bug causing the camera to often use horrible digital zoom for 5 x instead of the real telephoto lens (seems to be connected with the metered subject's distance). You can check this by covering the rectangular telephoto lens with a finger. If the picture vanishes, the lens is doing it's job.
You'll find out that the photo taken with the main camera has sharp and blurry areas, while the photo taken with the telephoto lens is rendered sharp everywhere.
That's the results of aperture and distance.
And that's why I don't see anything wrong with your first flower picture: Wide open aperture, small distance = tiny depth of field = tiny area of sharpness.
The way it should be because we all like that bokeh effect (blurry background, making the subject stand out) more than typical "flat" smartphone pictures.
But this benefit is paid with a drawback, the small depth of field, rendering everything outside that "sweet spot" blurry.
Perfectly normal, nothing to write home about.
Oh wait, I'll dare to post a link anyway - hope the moderators won't kill me for that impertinence.
Just took two quick photos right outside my house, clearly showing the effects I explained above.
http://waagerecht.com/kram/Flower_comparison.jpg
Picture is quite large, so be warned.
Telephoto: ISO 50, f/3.4, 1/196 s. Main lens: ISO 50, f/1.9, 1/846 s. Both shot in Photo auto mode, no AI.
About that numbers: ISO 50 tells me there should be no grain in the picture; the higher the ISO, the more grain in the picture.
f/3.4 tells me there's a wide depth of field, so there should be no greater blur. Also tells me the telephoto lens was used. f/1.9 tells me to expect blur everywhere outside the "sweet spot", main lens used.
1/196 and 1/846 tell me about very short exposure, so in-motion unsharpness (camera shake, moving subject) is very unlikely.
And because the telephoto lens has a smaller aperture of f/3.4 (and lenses with a higher curvature), less light reaches the sensor, thus exposure time is greatly increased, 1/196 s versus 1/846 s.
See why I asked for that data?
You'll see that the telephoto shot is all sharp (until you zoom in; lower sensor resolution plus digital zoom, today's modern pestilence), you can even see the structure of the green leaves, while the main camera shot has everything blurred except the flower's pistils.
That's just the way cameras work.
So enjoy your fine camera, it does a great work and does it right.
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Click to collapse
Jeasus Christ i never used 50 mp sesnor i use the normal sensor for the red flower and also same sensor with pink flower... im changing so many phones every year and i can clearly understand what a foto needs! P40 pro with 122 version is less detailed on normal shots than with 112 , i need t use night mode on day light fotos to get some sharpness..
Also the foto you have posted there is no detailed at all i can taje same photo with my xiaomi mia 3 Stock camera apk... and i can get also much better shots withy GCAM on mia 3!
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
blackhawk said:
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
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I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
TheNewLegend said:
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
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Click to collapse
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
blackhawk said:
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
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Click to collapse
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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Click to collapse
Remember there's more than one cam... Friends? Never watched it.
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
beserker15 said:
They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
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For wide angle use the save option to automatically apply correction. This is for primarily image distortion though.
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
brachiopod said:
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
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Wonder if it just automatically does it now?
That screenshot is from my N10+ running on Pie... meh, I don't like rude surprises
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
ssglackey said:
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
TheNewLegend said:
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
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Click to collapse
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already did that too
TheNewLegend said:
I already did that too
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Click to collapse
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
ssglackey said:
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is sd so it is..
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the standard 12Mpix mode everything far enough is sharp and in focus, using the same lens, only in 108Mpix mode you see this issue. Your statement is valid, but with tiny sensors in smartphones all distant object must be equally in focus. I can't achieve such blur for distant object with Full frame mirrorless (35mm f1.8) and that is another league.
TheNewLegend said:
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
After a comparison with s21 ultra there was a slight difference in sharpness, however I don't know why but the colors were much better with the s21.
I'll compare them again later.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like glackey said, even with my FF camera both of the subjects will be in focus, I don't think that DOF is the issue here.
steveroysston said:
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
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Click to collapse
Both of the phones were steady and the lens was clean.
I have two snapdragon s22 ultra one purchased last week another a month ago
Whenever I reach 10x zoom slider (either directly or even by sliding, from any lens) it switches to 10x lens for a split second and then switches back to 3x lens and zooms digitally.
This happens irrespective of lighting conditions and distance of subject.
Comparing both my s22 ultras side by side I was able to confirm that this problem exists only in one of the phone and not in the other model that phone keeps 10x optical zoom and does not switching to 3x zoom.
Options
A. Any solution to this problem would be highly appreciated?
B. Want to keep formatting as last option.
C. The phone is just 7 days old shall i take it to service centre.
One possible clue, I can make that happen on my S22U in situations where the 3X lens can focus, but the 10X lens can't, for example something about 6 inches away. Then the switchover is delayed as you zoom until about 14x. I'm not sure if it is using the laser ranging for that situation or not, but possibly if the laser thinks you are close, for example taking a picture through glass on a window, it might not switch to the 10x lens until 14x.
But as I said I have another unit at my home.. thuis one constantly switch only after 15 x and not 10x. The other unit is doing perfectly fine for same subject
ryudhruv said:
But as I said I have another unit at my home.. thuis one constantly switch only after 15 x and not 10x. The other unit is doing perfectly fine for same subject
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Click to collapse
Return it. I had a similar problem with a Verizon 10+5g with the wide angle lens. Frequent camera error messages turned into always camera error message when selecting wide angle. Sometimes a tap on the corner to a hard surface would fix it but that stopped as a solution after a few times.
I would say if possible, return or change it. My first one was no issue with camera but heating issue.. replaced one; Most of the time randomly pick the regular lens instead of 10x lens. Also at 10x zoom color suddenly changes to fuzzy and dull.
Replaced. This one no color issue but 10x n 30x n 100x has focus issue. Cant focus correctly, output image is most of the time blurry which my first ome had no issue. But i decided to keep as i dont have that time to go n chamge again. I also don't keep phone too long, and i rarely take pic.
ryudhruv said:
I have two snapdragon s22 ultra one purchased last week another a month ago
Whenever I reach 10x zoom slider (either directly or even by sliding, from any lens) it switches to 10x lens for a split second and then switches back to 3x lens and zooms digitally.
This happens irrespective of lighting conditions and distance of subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can we know which lens is being used by the phone at 10x? I want to confirm if my unit is not faulty.
linom said:
How can we know which lens is being used by the phone at 10x? I want to confirm if my unit is not faulty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After taking the picture check in the picture details the focal length:
10x lens has 27,2 mm
3x lens has 7,9 mm
1x lens has 6,4 mm
0,6x lens has 2,2 mm
You can also just put your finger in front of the lenses to see which one it is using.
I have the same problem here
Any way to solve it?
I've seen this happen in low light. The Periscope 10x zoom is f/4.9, while the 3x zoom is f/2.4. I don't know what the optics of the periscope are, but with the extra reflections/prisms the "t-stop" is probable closer to 5.6 for the periscope lens. That means that the 10x lens gathers approximately 4 times less light, and sometimes the phone seems to stick with cropping the brighter 3x lens in low light because there just isn't enough light. Sometimes in really low light it seems to use the main lens as well.
brachiopod said:
I've seen this happen in low light. The Periscope 10x zoom is f/4.9, while the 3x zoom is f/2.4. I don't know what the optics of the periscope are, but with the extra reflections/prisms the "t-stop" is probable closer to 5.6 for the periscope lens. That means that the 10x lens gathers approximately 4 times less light, and sometimes the phone seems to stick with cropping the brighter 3x lens in low light because there just isn't enough light. Sometimes in really low light it seems to use the main lens as well.
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Click to collapse
Sure, but it's strange, because my dad's s22 ultra does not do this, only mine, in same condition. Thinking about changing phone, its my 3 galaxy with problem
Do you think have any way to solve it?
use the expertraw
GabNeumann said:
Sure, but it's strange, because my dad's s22 ultra does not do this, only mine, in same condition. Thinking about changing phone, its my 3 galaxy with problem
Do you think have any way to solve it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is definitely some weird logic that dictates which lens it will use regardless of the zoom level that you request. Is there enough light, can I focus, is the subject too close for the 10x lens or are they shooting through glass and the laser misreads the distance as really close; if one of those things is true it switches lenses.. It happens when you try to take a macro shot too, you can't really control which lens it is going to use and a lot of times you get a crop view that is lower quality from one of the main lenses instead of what you wanted. I've played around with it a lot, and I'm still not sure exactly what it is doing. For example, start out with the 10x zoom about 10 feet from something, then move closer and closer. At some point you will see a little jump in the image as it switches to one of the other lenses without telling you. Then back away slowly, and it does not appear to switch back, keeping the crop from the other lens; I don't know when it switches back. Still, it should not happen all the time, especially with good light and a good subject that is far enough away for the 10x, it COULD be a hardware problem with your device but you also could be falling victim to the complex logic they are using.
Hi All. Similar problem. I was taking close ups of flowers using the PHOTO mode... I had blotchy results at 10x. I did some investigations. It turned out that when using the PRO mode, all was well. I first thought that it was some weird image processing that Samsung did, but that's not true. The truth is that the phone used the 3x camera at 10x magnification on the PHOTO mode! I then discovered that it only switched to the telephoto lens at precisely 15x magnification. Very weird. I can get very good results at 15x. But, when using PRO, the switch occurs at 10x. Samsung - what is going on? It looks like purely a software issue? Paul
Update: I've just restarted the phone. All back to normal and as intended. Lenses switch at precisely 10x.
Update 2: No, this is not due to a restart. The same issue again. The switch sometimes takes place at 10x, but if the phone is to close to the object, the switch will take place at precisely 15x. Super weird and inconsistent.
Update 3: Ok, so the switch between the lenses (on the PHOTO mode) is dictated by the distance between the object and the camera. If the phone is too close to the object, the phone will want to use the 3x lens. Absolutely no issue for long distance shots. These switch at 10x. You have to be super carful with telephoto closeups as you can basically ruin the shot thinking that you are on the 10x lens but in fact you are on the 3x lens. The PRO mode does not have that issue, but then changing iso and shutter speed are a bit hit and miss as well.
Worst still, this is also happening on the VIDEO mode.
For me the middle lens out of three is used for 1&3 zoom and small lens under flash is used for 10x in standard mode. At least kind of, seems to switch depending on distance and also the lower of the three is used for 10x sometimes......
When in pro or expert raw it behave less erratic and uses the lens I choose.
Highly annoying tbh.
I recently discovered this issue and its really embarrassing. Not many of us will go into pro mode and fiddle but as a simple point and shoot. This is terrible.
I am on the latest Software AVF7. My 10x photos keep looking like trash and there is a lot of light around. But i discovered that if you open a picture within the gallery while at 10x zoom and return to the view finder, it switches to the optical and stays. Has to be a bug rather than a defect.
It doesn't seem to be an app bug. I am also on AVF7 and cannot replicate the fault. If it is an app bug, then resetting the camera, clearing the camera app's cache and data should clear it up.
How to verify if this problem is also on my default samsung camera? As far as I'm using my phone, I saw nothing wrong with those zoom lens, but just want to check to make sure.
roffemckivi said:
For me the middle lens out of three is used for 1&3 zoom and small lens under flash is used for 10x in standard mode.
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Click to collapse
Does this also happen daytimes outside and at distances >2 m?
gernerttl said:
It doesn't seem to be an app bug. I am also on AVF7 and cannot replicate the fault. If it is an app bug, then resetting the camera, clearing the camera app's cache and data should clear it up.
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Click to collapse
Did all the above and still the same. Sigh