Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
MartinDimchev said:
Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wide aperture mode and potrait mode are similar. I think the only difference is you can alter the blur in wide aperture...
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
So sadly we talk here only about one sensor that still is damn nice, so at least for me its not big deal.
As for portrait mode... It would be nice to have but what we really expect from it?
Most of portrait modes on phones are actually the same as "beautification mode" where camera just slightly blur skin color and do some really small blur on background.
Its not really much and I actually found out that "beautification mode" in our device at level 3-4 do the trick just fine. Also "Food Mode" is pretty nice for portrait, it bump colors and(not sure if its me or that function) focus more on close objects so background have that light blur.
Other thing is that if you really want to make nice portrait mode... Expert mode is best to do it. Yes it need that few seconds to get set it up depending on lighting condition, but for most of time its a matter of selecting aperture mode, AF to manual(its tricky on phone but you can get used to it) and correction of exposition.
Also people should not be afraid of post processing. This is something that actually distinguishes professional photography from amateur. Whole magic of nice image is correcting it after taking picture. Not some heavy photoshoping, but "correcting image".
People today want everything automated and expect professional results. They take 100000 pictures and want them all to be nice.
Yes, photography is about taking lots of pictures, but what matter is to choose that one best, and polish it as much as possible.
Taking portrait is not different, you take few pictures, choose best one and polish it a bit after that.
You will never get perfect result with automatic mode in first try, this need some luck or proper preparation of scene, that no one really do when take pictures using camera.
The wide aperature (not called selective focus) is actually the portrait mode, similar to the one on iPhones(also on Note8).
It does use both cameras to percieve depth and create a bokeh/blur effect.
And if you are talking about P10's portrait mode, it is just the wide aperture mode along with beauty mode combined, and is inferior.
I think P9 does a decent job with it's potraits. It's not the best when compared to Pixel, iPhone and Note 8. But a little bit of tweaking and manually taking the photo at a good distance from subject. You can get great results. Plus you can't expect everything to be in the phone, as there are certain. limitations hardware wise. Best you can do is to see tutorials or find ways to manually tweak camera settings. Or you could get Autofocus, terrific free app that allows you to make potriats out of normal photos and it's very good.
Personally I don't find it the same as Portrait Mode on other phones. Especially with objects it's ridiculosly bad. About the two cameras I guess there is a way to make them work together and give great results. But even if they add it only for the one camera I would be really happy. It's not necessary but would be nice to have it. We see they are adding new things this one will be wellcome.
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
Because everyone knows how to use manual settings to achieve it right? Not so simple. Mode is better.
If you managed to ride a bike, create google account, register on xda forum and use phone it self at all, manual mode will be peace of cake.
Its a matter of just remembering what option do what, and you have really just 6 options where 2 of them are really clear to understand and not used too much(White Balance and Focus Mode that is just manual and auto).
Separated modes are handy, but they often "try to hard to be inteligent" and mess thing up. Its especially frustrating when you transfer images to PC and realize that image on phone look totally different than on PC, especially in terms of contrast and details...
Akinaro said:
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
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Click to collapse
Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
galakty said:
Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
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Click to collapse
There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
Akinaro said:
There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
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Hmmmm... Im not talking about human eyes
The difference is too small to catch it, but if You look into file sizes and at histogram there IS a difference. Not huge, but there is.
The problem is... Huawei told us, they're using two sensors to produce one image. And its true, but its not like as twice as much light unfortunately. Difference is too little to catch it and say that. Covering the second lens is cutting some highlights, thats all... (right side of histogram).
I would love to, that camera is taking light with monochrome sensor and then putting colors on it... It would be AMAZING! Just take color and monochrome photos with same scenery. The monochrome photo is almost twice as fast as color (or has twice less ISO).
Why is that? I dont know, its a shame. Anyway its super camera still.
EDIT: Maybe for different ROMs its different?
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
Jan Philipp said:
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
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Click to collapse
You can't reproduce wide aperture effect with pro settings. You can't adjust focal length or aperture.
Akinaro said:
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
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Click to collapse
I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
joser0913 said:
I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
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Click to collapse
eh... I said that, quote: ""So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick"". I was referring all the time to two identical sensors. Read whole topic...
I mentioned that having telephoto is different story, quote: ""(...) you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.""
But still as I said al whats matter is quality of that sensor and software side of it(algorithms), there is lots of phones and camera with just one senor but because of quality of optic and optimized software it give you better end results when you compare it to any dual cam in 1:1 comparison
Related
So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.
Bazirker said:
So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.
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Click to collapse
Turn picture stabilization off and it gets rid of the picture lag.
But yes, otherwise similar issues.
That's the thing. The HTC M8 wins on indoor/low light pics (if you don't get that purple blob effect), this will on outdoors. That's where the whole MP vs. sensor size come into play as larger sensor means more light but not as sharp vs. more MP means sharper but due to smaller sensor less light thus not always great.
Anyway I've found it takes me about 2 pictures to get one I like with HDR and image stabilization off. With that on that all seem to suck due to the delay. Would have been nice to have some true optical image stabilization too. Samsung just doesn't seem to learn/care though.
We get good HW but they cheap out on the little things that make it better.
Yeah, turning off stabilization, HDR etc helps, but there's still a noticeable lag. The lag bothers me less than the fact that my near-stationary subject is coming out blurry. If the camera would simply capture the exact image that is on-screen at the moment I hit the shutter, I would be thrilled...
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.
Arkanthos2015 said:
So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.
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Click to collapse
Lots of truth to your post in regards to the pointers about technique and settings. I've got an EOS-1Ds I use when I plan to take photos, and you need to know how to use your gear and be practiced if you want to take a decent photo.
However, I disagree when it comes to expectations for smartphone camera performance. I used to have the same attitude you expressed about taking photos with a phone, until I recently backed up and printed some of the photos off my wife's old iPhone 4S. The photos it took were shockingly good, and my disappointment with the Galaxy S5 camera stems from the fact that it is getting severely outperformed by the 3 year old iPhone. If the Apple crowd has been able to rely on their iPhones as a competent point-and-shoot camera for years, I see no reason why my flagship Android phone should be no different.
In other news, I've been playing with different settings and apps all afternoon, and still aren't seeing any improvement in performance. Camera Zoom FX allows for ISO 1600, and that's giving me the best performance so far in terms of reducing lag and image blur. (Of course, the images are quite grainy...boo hiss.)
Hey everyone,
I'm just trying to figure out if my S8+'s camera is working the way it should. I am transitioning from an S6 which was super-sharp at the cost of also being noisy sometimes. I do love my S8+, but will you have a look at these samples? All in AUTO mode. Please make sure you zoom in.
https://ibb.co/dA5hz5
https://ibb.co/mKMBsQ
So in the first picture, the church is in focus which is great. But look at the rest of the image... The white building on the left, the 'BUS' inscription on the left bus lane... It looks terrible. And what's even more confusing, the closest part of the crosswalk seems to be in focus as well.
The second one has the left bus lane in focus, that was intended. And I am very pleased with the sharpness of the crosswalk this time, but look at the rest of the picture. Everything is blurry! The street, the buildings, the church.
I have another set for comparison. This time, from the other side of the church
https://ibb.co/dOyPCQ
https://ibb.co/mC6Y6k
I focused on the horse statue in the first picture and it is just right I would say. But look at the second one...
I focused on a random point, on the church, for the second picture. See how blurry the horse statue became? And the part of the church vertically inline with the statue seems blurry as well.
What do you think? These were like the perfect shooting conditions. The camera chose shutter speeds like 1/3000s which should eliminate any camera shaking I guess (assuming that's not handled well by the OIS).
As a side-note, I also tried an indoor shot (with the lights turned on) to capture a flower bouquet. The camera chose 1/11s shutter and I was not able to get the shot right (all came out blurry) until I used vocal commands. Presumably pressing the on-screen button was causing a shake that couldn't be compensated by OIS. Is that expected, really?
Thanks, looking forward to see others' thoughts.
Looks like a misplaced lens. Sony smartphone users are getting the same issues with almost every model. Better to exchange it, I think.
Thanks for your reply.
Shouldn't always behave the same if it's a misplaced lens? I mean, I once had a lens that had this issue and it was more noticeable at specific apertures. But all the time, not just in some photos. These were all taken at the same aperture I believe.
I'm convinced, that this is the normal behaviour of the S8's camera.
The S6 has got a 1/2,6" sensor and a f/1.9 aperture.
The S8 has got a 1/2,5" sensor and a f/1.7 aperture.
Either a larger sensor and a more open aperture results in a picture in which the area of maximum sharpness becomes smaller, this is just physics.
For the same reason, you get these nice bokeh on a DSLR, because of the large sensor.
It's not possible to change that behaviour, you have to more carefully decide, which is the most important part of your picture and manually focus on it.
Thanks for your reply. Samsung seems to agree with you because...
I had a live-chat with Samsung today and they offered to remotely check the camera and the sensor which we did. They, indeed, claimed that the camera is expected to only display the area in focus as being sharp, the rest of the image should be at some level blurry.
Do I like it? I don't know. Do pictures look better than on my old S6? Absolutely! I think they got it right in the end. For what it is, it's a good compromise.
Hi all, I did a thorough analysis and posted it in reddit so the Essential staff can see it. Here it is... Please post your replies and comments here along with your comparisons and settings listed please. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/essential/comments/7gjxcm/comparisons_of_new_essential_camera_update/
xterminater07 said:
Hi all, I did a thorough analysis and posted it in reddit so the Essential staff can see it. Here it is... Please post your replies and comments here along with your comparisons and settings listed please. Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/essential/comments/7gjxcm/comparisons_of_new_essential_camera_update/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have read your post. I did see the update that Essential released and although the file size is about 1 MB bigger than before the update, still the image quality didn't change. I am using this version: MGC_5.1.016_7.0+C2API_v.1.3a_AllinOne. How is it different from your version of Google Camera app?
why do you think the portrait mode does not use the second camera?
hs911 said:
why do you think the portrait mode does not use the second camera?
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Click to collapse
Well two reasons, they never really mention what focal length the second camera is, most flagship say its a 2x optical which is a typical 52mm lens. Second, you can see the stapphy's pic, the bokeh is way off.
well i can not fully agree with you. i admit that i have no technical details for constructing pictures with two cameras but i made a simple test: i put my finger on the mono cam:
monochrome cam covered:
both cams free:
hs911 said:
well i can not fully agree with you. i admit that i have no technical details for constructing pictures with two cameras but i made a simple test: i put my finger on the mono cam:
monochrome cam covered:
both cams free:
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Click to collapse
Interesting, I was only saying that because most true portrait set up needs a telephoto lens bc of the focal length 52mm used. The latest OP5 removed their telephoto lens and created portrait solely by upscaling pixels taken by the second lens. There is a article on gsmarena that explains this, so maybe essential is doing the same?!? But to me, anything not using a 52mm setup for portrait is all software emulated.
Essential had mentioned that both cameras are the same focal length (or at least appear to be, they didn't give specs). The difference is color vs mono. And if you look into stereo photography, which has existed since almost the dawn of photography, it's composed of 2 lenses at the same focal length slightly offset from one another similar to the dual camera setup on this phone. It produces 3d images. This is because each image is slightly offset from the other, producing a slightly different perspective. This is also how we see depth with our own eyes.
If you can produce 3d/stereo images with 2 lenses next to each other, then you could calculate how far the images are offset from one another by overlapping them. Where the offset is further, you might assume the object is further and thus produce a shallower depth of field there.
Where I'm unsure is how the expected to combine the 2 images because they won't match identically. Either they're so close that stereo imagery as I described has little to no offset, making my point above completely irrelevant and allowing them to be combined as originally planned, or there's enough offset that they're having difficulty in combining the images which is why there has been very little confirming it's actively doing this.
gk1984 said:
Essential had mentioned that both cameras are the same focal length (or at least appear to be, they didn't give specs). The difference is color vs mono. And if you look into stereo photography, which has existed since almost the dawn of photography, it's composed of 2 lenses at the same focal length slightly offset from one another similar to the dual camera setup on this phone. It produces 3d images. This is because each image is slightly offset from the other, producing a slightly different perspective. This is also how we see depth with our own eyes.
If you can produce 3d/stereo images with 2 lenses next to each other, then you could calculate how far the images are offset from one another by overlapping them. Where the offset is further, you might assume the object is further and thus produce a shallower depth of field there.
Where I'm unsure is how the expected to combine the 2 images because they won't match identically. Either they're so close that stereo imagery as I described has little to no offset, making my point above completely irrelevant and allowing them to be combined as originally planned, or there's enough offset that they're having difficulty in combining the images which is why there has been very little confirming it's actively doing this.
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Excellent analysis! The prior 2 lens system that existed was used for 3D purposes only. However, now there's softwares involved that pretty much said to ignore anything that is behind the main focus point regardless of how minimal the depth differences are. The 7 Plus didn't even make use of the telephoto until it detects an X amount of lighting present. There was a video just surfaced to show how the iPhone X turns on it's telephoto at a lower lighting than the 7 Plus or 8 Plus, I forgot which one. Most dual camera phones without telephoto lens is pretty much just like you said color and mono, and the mono allows for better color. The camera system would merge the two together to enhance color, not needing a larger aperture for low lighting since the mono takes care of that.
xterminater07 said:
Excellent analysis! The prior 2 lens system that existed was used for 3D purposes only. However, now there's softwares involved that pretty much said to ignore anything that is behind the main focus point regardless of how minimal the depth differences are. The 7 Plus didn't even make use of the telephoto until it detects an X amount of lighting present. There was a video just surfaced to show how the iPhone X turns on it's telephoto at a lower lighting than the 7 Plus or 8 Plus, I forgot which one. Most dual camera phones without telephoto lens is pretty much just like you said color and mono, and the mono allows for better color. The camera system would merge the two together to enhance color, not needing a larger aperture for low lighting since the mono takes care of that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you're accurate on one aspect, but otherwise yes. The mono camera doesn't do anything for color. It is physically impossible to capture color data on the monochrome sensor. Rather, that sensor is missing the layers/components that filter light into red, green, and blue. The benefits are less objects on the sensor blocking light passing through and possibly (depending on design) more surface area to capture light. So the mono sensor captures more light and more detail. Combining the 2 images is supposed to offer more detailed images and help with exposure. Anything to do with color is from the color sensor and post-processing. Quality lenses can also help the color accuracy, but it's unclear if the lens on the camera is as good as it can be or not.
gk1984 said:
I don't think you're accurate on one aspect, but otherwise yes. The mono camera doesn't do anything for color. It is physically impossible to capture color data on the monochrome sensor. Rather, that sensor is missing the layers/components that filter light into red, green, and blue. The benefits are less objects on the sensor blocking light passing through and possibly (depending on design) more surface area to capture light. So the mono sensor captures more light and more detail. Combining the 2 images is supposed to offer more detailed images and help with exposure. Anything to do with color is from the color sensor and post-processing. Quality lenses can also help the color accuracy, but it's unclear if the lens on the camera is as good as it can be or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, I don't mean enhance color as in Saturation and color itself. What I mean is like making the pictures more details with color and contrasts that sort, shadows and lighting. However, it is interesting the guy above cover the second lens and bokeh went away.
Hi
There seems to be a lot of noise and graininess in low light shots with my Pixel 2. I understand low light is difficult but I just want to make sure whether the shots in the link is normal or is there something wrong with my camera.
It's just automatic mode so not HDR+ enhanced. There are some that I've turned the compensation down as well by focusing and sliding down the brightness gauge. Is there any other way to mitigate the noise and blown out pics like these like a separate option to lower the shutter speed or is there something wrong with my camera?
There's also other 2 other pics indoor with low light. One is with enhanced HDR and the other just normal. The noise is crazy here. I'm pretty sure my iPhone 6 did better here. Also, my camera seems to flicker (like when you video old TV's theres lines that travel either up and down or left and right) in certain lighting conditions, mainly the gym and the room in the picture. The room is lit by LED light and my tv is also LED. Is this normal?
Albums:
imgur(dot)com/a/xeJLl
imgur(dot)com/gallery/ywxEx
Thanks
Delos Dinh said:
Hi
There seems to be a lot of noise and graininess in low light shots with my Pixel 2. I understand low light is difficult but I just want to make sure whether the shots in the link is normal or is there something wrong with my camera.
It's just automatic mode so not HDR+ enhanced. There are some that I've turned the compensation down as well by focusing and sliding down the brightness gauge. Is there any other way to mitigate the noise and blown out pics like these like a separate option to lower the shutter speed or is there something wrong with my camera?
There's also other 2 other pics indoor with low light. One is with enhanced HDR and the other just normal. The noise is crazy here. I'm pretty sure my iPhone 6 did better here. Also, my camera seems to flicker (like when you video old TV's theres lines that travel either up and down or left and right) in certain lighting conditions, mainly the gym and the room in the picture. The room is lit by LED light and my tv is also LED. Is this normal?
Albums:
imgur(dot)com/a/xeJLl
imgur(dot)com/gallery/ywxEx
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for clarification, you've tried pictures without HDR+, with HDR+, and with HDR+ enhanced (must be enabled in the camera settings somewhere)? If not, "HDR+ enhanced" mode might be what you're looking for since it (from my understanding) is the common HDR mode that takes a little longer in order to shoot multiple photos and combine them. There's a thread called "HDR+ on vs HDR+ Enhanced?" that could be helpful, as well as an interview with someone at Google about the camera decisions and different modes. I don't have enough posts to include links, but they're easy to find. If you already knew about the additional "HDR+ enhanced" mode though then I'm afraid I can't help you. Every picture looks incredible to me coming from the HTC One M7, so I haven't played with it much.
Delos Dinh said:
Hi
There seems to be a lot of noise and graininess in low light shots with my Pixel 2. I understand low light is difficult but I just want to make sure whether the shots in the link is normal or is there something wrong with my camera.
It's just automatic mode so not HDR+ enhanced. There are some that I've turned the compensation down as well by focusing and sliding down the brightness gauge. Is there any other way to mitigate the noise and blown out pics like these like a separate option to lower the shutter speed or is there something wrong with my camera?
There's also other 2 other pics indoor with low light. One is with enhanced HDR and the other just normal. The noise is crazy here. I'm pretty sure my iPhone 6 did better here. Also, my camera seems to flicker (like when you video old TV's theres lines that travel either up and down or left and right) in certain lighting conditions, mainly the gym and the room in the picture. The room is lit by LED light and my tv is also LED. Is this normal?
Albums:
imgur(dot)com/a/xeJLl
imgur(dot)com/gallery/ywxEx
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at your photos, I don't think we're seeing the same things. The pics look great aside from a few being out of focus. I just had an iphone 6 for a short time and I'm 100% sure it can't come close to those photos in low light.
delta7019 said:
Just for clarification, you've tried pictures without HDR+, with HDR+, and with HDR+ enhanced (must be enabled in the camera settings somewhere)? If not, "HDR+ enhanced" mode might be what you're looking for since it (from my understanding) is the common HDR mode that takes a little longer in order to shoot multiple photos and combine them. There's a thread called "HDR+ on vs HDR+ Enhanced?" that could be helpful, as well as an interview with someone at Google about the camera decisions and different modes. I don't have enough posts to include links, but they're easy to find. If you already knew about the additional "HDR+ enhanced" mode though then I'm afraid I can't help you. Every picture looks incredible to me coming from the HTC One M7, so I haven't played with it much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, the first set of pictures was just standard HDR. Do you also think the second album us good looking? There's a lot of noise there looking from both my phone and laptop.
Delos Dinh said:
Thanks, the first set of pictures was just standard HDR. Do you also think the second album us good looking? There's a lot of noise there looking from both my phone and laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take some pictures in another place with the same lighting levels and a few in a slightly lit environment. I haven't checked my phone's photos on a PC, but on the phone they looked pretty good. Do you see noise when you view your photos on the phone itself?
Delos Dinh said:
Thanks, the first set of pictures was just standard HDR. Do you also think the second album us good looking? There's a lot of noise there looking from both my phone and laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's some noise on the second set of pics around the TV area, but I can't tell how dark the room is. They remind me of times that my HTC One lens was dirty--especially since the odd marks are about the same shape and in just about the same place even with different shooting modes. When mine got dirty, I couldn't tell just by looking at it, and I had to wipe it with a damp cloth (dry cloth didn't work). It could also be something with the way the TV screen is processed; certain types of screen cause different effects on different phones. Just FYI, apparently the default camera mode can't be changed (HDR+), so it has to be toggled off every time the camera is opened if you don't want it.
---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------
In the Google interview, the guy mentions that they made a trade off between noise and brightness so that Pixel 2 users can see more of the image subject. Made it seem like Google decided what's the point if you can't see anything and figured it's easier to later darken an image rather than brighten it without damaging the quality.
delta7019 said:
Just for clarification, you've tried pictures without HDR+, with HDR+, and with HDR+ enhanced (must be enabled in the camera settings somewhere)? If not, "HDR+ enhanced" mode might be what you're looking for since it (from my understanding) is the common HDR mode that takes a little longer in order to shoot multiple photos and combine them. There's a thread called "HDR+ on vs HDR+ Enhanced?" that could be helpful, as well as an interview with someone at Google about the camera decisions and different modes. I don't have enough posts to include links, but they're easy to find. If you already knew about the additional "HDR+ enhanced" mode though then I'm afraid I can't help you. Every picture looks incredible to me coming from the HTC One M7, so I haven't played with it much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
delta7019 said:
There's some noise on the second set of pics around the TV area, but I can't tell how dark the room is. They remind me of times that my HTC One lens was dirty--especially since the odd marks are about the same shape and in just about the same place even with different shooting modes. When mine got dirty, I couldn't tell just by looking at it, and I had to wipe it with a damp cloth (dry cloth didn't work). It could also be something with the way the TV screen is processed; certain types of screen cause different effects on different phones. Just FYI, apparently the default camera mode can't be changed (HDR+), so it has to be toggled off every time the camera is opened if you don't want it.
---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------
In the Google interview, the guy mentions that they made a trade off between noise and brightness so that Pixel 2 users can see more of the image subject. Made it seem like Google decided what's the point if you can't see anything and figured it's easier to later darken an image rather than brighten it without damaging the quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Il try it.
Charkatak said:
Take some pictures in another place with the same lighting levels and a few in a slightly lit environment. I haven't checked my phone's photos on a PC, but on the phone they looked pretty good. Do you see noise when you view your photos on the phone itself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, on both my phone and laptop, I see a lot noise :S
mikeyinid said:
I looked at your photos, I don't think we're seeing the same things. The pics look great aside from a few being out of focus. I just had an iphone 6 for a short time and I'm 100% sure it can't come close to those photos in low light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Hmmm.. even for the second lot of pics? There's just a lot of noise and graininess I can see from looking at form my phone and laptop. :S It's always good for a second opinion thank you.
Delos Dinh said:
Thanks. Hmmm.. even for the second lot of pics? There's just a lot of noise and graininess I can see from looking at form my phone and laptop. :S It's always good for a second opinion thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took close to 100 photos this weekend when I took my family to see Christmas lights in a nearby town. It was night time and I have to say, I was very surprised how well the photos came out. I do see some noise/graininess in some, mostly ones of people. But they are still very good considering the darkness. Even portrait mode worked very well in low light.
Yes, I would say that it's normal (I only looked at the image with the buildings). HDR+ enhanced could be worth a try.
It's possible that other phone cameras would have less noise in this light condition, but then they would blow out the highlights. In my opinion Google does the right thing: Slightly more noise for less blown out highlights. Though in low light the images are often too bright. So the best thing you can do is using the exposure compensation. This can also make the shutter speed faster. Be aware that less noise will be visible when you underexpose, but when you adjust the brightness with software afterwards, then the noise will be even worse.
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
You will be blown by the photos you take with the normal version so you don't need to buy the pro version 6GB ram and 128GB Storage is enough for everything from gaming to taking photos, browsing and anything i can say.
No I really don't care about the more RAM and Rom. Just curious about the photos only!
I ordered the Pro. Should arrive next week. Frankie Tech on youtube will upload a camera comparison of the two very soon.
cycloholic said:
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amount of lens group doesnt mean you can capture more light. Extra lens is used for correcting distortion, color aberration etc. The apperture itself is the same pro or not pro. So it should be able to capture same amount of light.
in daily usage, difference in camera result will be minor
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
adira.mardiani said:
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
For more details about how sensor size affecting focus area :
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
otonieru said:
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Kasallamacher said:
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i wrote above,
The extra lens definitely not for lol. Extra lens element is used for variety of reasons, mostly to correct distortion and color aberration. But definitely not for extra light reasons.
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually in a Lens group, more len can capture more light is true.
for example, 8p lens maybe capture 99.5% of light, but 7p lens maybe only 99.2%.
The different is not big.
But "more light" is not the major benefit.
Usually more lens may correct the image better to fit the sensor.
Mi note 10 pro has problem focusing
otonieru said:
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi otonieru
I appreciate you explaining the relationship between sensor size and depth of field.
My new note 10 pro main camera seems to have trouble focusing even in good day light, it repeatedly focuses on the background instead of the person i want to photograph, even though i physically tap the person's face on screen. The 5x camera focuses fine though.
Do you think this is a hardware or software issue?
Many thanks!