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So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced!
I recently bricked my captivate. It turned into a brick. Nothing happened at all. So i called samsung when ATT wouldnt replace it, and i told them it would shut off every once in a while and then one day it wouldnt turn on again. they gave me a new one!!!
so here i am, starting an AT&T/Samsung Support story thread. Tell us what you told them, and the results!
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
cropythy said:
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
10c for a text message isn't honest but that doesn't mean lying about what you did to your phone should be condoned.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
First off, I don't think anybody has managed to actually brick one of these phones - even the ones who have deliberately tried to do so.
Secondly, if you can't live with the restrictions AT&T has put on the phone, you have 30 days to return it. If you want to hack or modify your phone go ahead - but be prepared to accept the consquences for your actions.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
you could always one click odin3 restore and be fine!
This is hands down, 100% wrong. YOU were playing around with your phone. YOU knew the risks and you decided to flash/update/whatever your device and ended up with a partial brick. (to my knowledge there has not been a fully bricked captivate yet)
It is YOUR responsibility to replace the phone if YOU damage it in any way. NOT At&t.
It always irks me when people manipulate retailers/manufacturers to get things replaced 'under warranty' when in fact, the warranty has been voided.
Not a good idea to make up a story
Its not like they cannot find out that you were the culprit who bricked it when the phone gets back to QA. And believe me...they WILL find out. Once they find out and if they decide to care you are technically liable for the full price of the phone in addition to what they deem are damages
Additionally it will just lead to more efforts by AT&T to keep modders out, hurting us all at xda in the process.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
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So being dishonest makes it all right?
Guess what? No one tricked anyone into buying a phone. AT&T does not change terms and conditions without giving you cause to cancel your contract. If you don't like the price of text messages, then don't text; or go with a cheaper carrier.
If you don't like the restrictions don't buy the phone.
And you probably justify downloading music, apps, and movies because they cost to much or not good enough quality?
what does it mean to breake?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I agree with the above posters.
When I bought this phone, I knew I was going to root it, ROM it, edit the files and such. I knew at the same time that doing so would void my warranty and make me liable for any damage I did to the phone. Understanding that made me more careful about what I put on my phone, and made me research the HELL out of any changes I made before I made them, and how to fix them if something went wrong.
Also, it's, so far, IMPOSSIBLE to completely brick a captivate, since you can just use Odin3 to reinstall software. I would think the only way to brick one would be hardware damage from taking it apart, or smashing it with a hammer or something crazy like that.
Just go to this thread, download the firmware, Odin3 and the pitfile and reinstall your phone's OS.
http: // forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731989
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
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What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
I'm sorry, but in my world, if I install linux on a brand new dell or HP computer, and the screen shorts, my warranty doesn't become void. I can't receive software technical support because I am not running the software the sold me, but if the hardware is defective, software has ZERO to do with it. So the limitations that AT&T place on cell phones that if you flash a new ROM it's warranty is void is ridiculous, and downright fraudulent.
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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How about price fixing, dubious business practices, illegal political contributions, tax evasion, and breach of trust (These are allegations that samsung was CAUGHT doing, imagine all the stuff that's been going on behind closed doors).
http://www.corp-ethics.com/company/samsung/samsung-give-825m-charity.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/business/worldbusiness/17iht-17samsung.12083418.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/European-Union-Price-Fixing-DRAM,10462.html
NOW AGAIN, I'm not saying because Samsung engaged in these practices that it justifies one man's deceitful actions, all I'm saying is that no one is perfect... And I don't want to get started on what AT&T is guilty of.
Kreiger1981 said:
(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
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Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
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This phone is already ridiculously easy to flash and virtually impossible to brick, and we still have ethically bankrupt idiots pulling these stunts and then coming here to brag about it!
I would agree that we have blatant price fixing in regards to the price of text messages and probably in regards to other services too. These issues need to be addressed through the appropriate legal avenues. None of them turn "wrong" into "right".
Someone should sticky the below post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=753946
It IS possible to brick the phone. Anyone who spouts off about how it is impossible is dead wrong. See post seven of the above thread. While what the OP did is wrong on some level, the severity is debatable for the next hundred years. I will say that the community shares some responsibility though. There are not enough warnings about bricking, everyone simply states that it's nearly impossible. I've seen numerous posts asking for help on a device that is as the OP described in his other thread and the only things that are posted are the typical "It can't be bricked, you're just doing it wrong" posts. Having personally seen one such device, I've read a lot of threads about it. Most are simply stuck at the android failsafe screen or in a boot loop but there are indeed complete bricks and not enough attention is given to them or how to avoid them. In short, the OP does deserve some slack.
Wow wtf happened to this site?
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
I decided I'd make this post to help people out who find themselves disconcerted with T-Mobile's handling (or should I say mishandling) of the G2X situation. As many of you are aware, T-Mobile does not have an alternate phone in their system that they will swap your G2X for. Basically what this means is that if you're having problems with your phone, the only thing they will do is continue to send you out more refurbs. I have had 5 G2X's sent out and am awaiting my sixth. I wanted to let you guys know what options are on the table. Since T-Mobile is failing to produce a reliable and fully functional device they were forced to let me out of my contract without an ETF. It took talking to a lot of people but after having 5 phones sent out and them telling me they can't give me a different model, they really didn't have much choice. The only other solution that they came up with was to give me the full upgrade pricing on a Sensation. I hardly call having me pay more money on top of what I've already paid, a solution. So I forced them to release me from the contract. Also, I am awaiting word back from their corporate office to see what they will do about this. As I put it to them on the phone, it doesn't make sense that you won't even sell this phone right now because of quality control issues (and they have admitted to me now on several occasions that's the reason it was pulled), but the people who already have it just get screwed and you continue to send them a phone that THEY KNOW and admit is defective.
Summary: Exchange your phone at least 3 times and then force your way out of the contract. Also, call corporate and leave a message. They will call you back. 425-378-4000
If you are dissatisfied with T-Mobile, make your voices heard!
I feel yours and everyone else's pain on issues with this phone. I picked mine up on day one and will say GPS has been pretty bad...I've had no issues of reboots or any of the other issues.
Hope it works out for you.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Sensation
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
Me personally I've already gotten a Sensation (as of the 8th) but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the way that T-Mobile is handling the situation. My issue is that they admit to having problems, so much to the point that they pulled it, however they are not wanting to take care of the customers that have already been affected by the problems that they admit to having.
I wish battery life was better.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Thank you very much for that number to corporate. I spent 3 hours on the phone the other day trying to explain to manager after manager that it isn't my fault as the consumer that I bought a phone from them that was so defective that they pulled it and stopped selling it. It's almost a farce at how not compassionate they were towards me and how they basically just said, "LG's going to take care of it, it's out of our hands." I am definitely going to call that number and I can't wait til I get a call back. Thanks again.
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
tackleberry said:
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
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First off, let's try to be a bit more respectful...
Now that we got that out of the way. Yes it is possible, but you have to force their hand. They are not going to make it easy because of course they don't want to release you. But if you are persistent enough and talk to enough managers (in the retentions dept) yes you can get out of it.
randyp007 said:
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
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The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
Erislover said:
The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
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As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
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You're absolutely right. I was just saying it's not an "easy" exchange, like it would be with an HTC<--->HTC exchange. They still wouldn't be obligated to do that under our contracts, but it would be "easy" for the company to accept, as they wouldn't lose beaucoup bucks doing so. Here, though, they eat a lot of loss giving us all new phones (whether at full upgrade price or free).
But amen to what you're saying - they *should* make sure we have phones that work longer than 6 hrs/day and don't reboot randomly throughout the day. (Lucky for me, my phone is running solid on EB 1.5 froyo, and I couldn't be happier with the phone, but I had all the issues complained of before I made the switch, and life is good now....)
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
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Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
Adam7986 said:
Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
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This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
mysterioustko said:
This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
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First let me clear something up, I am not speaking on behalf of t-mobile, but that argument is flawed. T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break. Is that a crappy way to look at it, yes, but that is the gods honest truth. If you get a new car and it the brakes go bad you don't replace the whole damn car, you fix whats wrong with it and move on. Now I know cell phones are different, but at the same token if something is wrong with your phone you don't automatically get a brand new one, you fix it.
If it can be fixed, it is fixed. If it can't be fixed then you get a replacement. Will I exchange your device if I can't fix it? Sure, but I AM going to try to fix it. Most times, we don't even fight customers very hard about exchanges, we give in pretty easily.
In all honesty, your beef is with LG, yes we sell the phone, but the warranty is LG's warranty, not T-Mobile's. We decide to save you the hassle of having to send your phone in for repairs and then getting the same device that was broken back. That is what the manufacturer's warranty covers, if the repairs fail to fix the issue, only then will they exchange it for you and guess what, its a refurb. We absorb a lot of that cost and delay as a company, so you, our customer doesn't have to.
And P.S. out of the 25 calls I take a day, I may not be able to resolve 2 of them. That bothers me, truly it does, I want to fix everything. At the same token, if all you want is a new phone, you don't want customer service.
Adam7986 said:
T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break.
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Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
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(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
Erislover said:
(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
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Then take everything I said and replace judge with arbiter.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
I don't get it you had 14 days (30 days in California) to return the device and you kept it so I don't understand these arguments. You could have simply returned the device within that time frame and waited for the next device to be released. Instead you stuck with the device seems like a poor decision on the consumers part.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Adam. You have 14 days or 30 days depending on where you bought it. The phone is brand new. Some phones have a few issues. If yours had issues it would have been apparent in the first several days with plenty of days to make the swap.
The issue with a new device, is that there will be lots of returns and lots of defective refurbs. Every refurb I get is nasty right now because all of the bad screen bleeds are being recycled.
Mine works great aside from a longer then normal GPS lock (something fishy with AGPS). But once you are past your return period, you are stuck with it. If you are unhappy with YOUR choice, then cancel your contract, sell the phone, and move on. It isn't really that difficult.
I think if you are having issues with the phone that is bad enough to make you want to jump to another phone, the $50 upgrade price isn't really that bad since you basically used a brand new phone for at least 2 weeks to a month.
I know $50 is $50 but if I really wanted another phone and was offered the one I wanted for $50, no questions asked... I would go for it.... unless the goal was to get something for nothing.... which isn't right.
Bottom line is you let your return period lapse. They could say, "Sorry we can't help you". But sounds like they are trying and offering various solutions. Whether they aren't good enough for you is another topic.
I'd say take the upgrade for $50 and move on or pay to get out of contract entirely.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
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Whether you like it or not, you are indeed wrong. The functionality of a device is not guaranteed by any service provider. Hence why you are allowed to use unlocked devices and such. The only guarantee is that the device sold has to be compatible with the services sold. If a device turns of randomly and there are other issues, your contract with any service provider will not ensure you a new or replaced device because your SERVICE is not impaired, just your usage. I know that is crappy but it is what it is.
When you purchase a device, you are then subject to the terms of use by the manufacturer ONLY. You enter into a separate contract with your service provider. In most countries, devices are not purchased at a discount through a service provider, they are bought outright at full price. The warranty is guaranteed and based on the terms of service and subject to manufacturer discretion. Almost all of the manufacturers require repair before warranty exchange is fulfilled.
Again, service providers decide to accept the brunt of these exchanges and costs associated with them, because customers would rather leave and go to another provider instead of dealing with the hassle. So while a provider is willing to and able to process your exchange and get you a replacement device, it is in no way a requirement of your contract with said provider. The only time this is not true is during a "buyer's remorse" period that is required by most states, but even then the exchange isn't a requirement, just the ability to return the device and receive a refund.
As most of you would know, we have learned quite a bit about Defy bootloader during the last week.
We always thought that Motorola don't have a method to unlock production defys (defys shipped to end users). Well we have sufficient information now to prove that Motorola have a method, and that it converts production defys to engineering defys (Phones used by Motorola engineers to make ROMs and other stuff)
This is actually better than a simple unlocked boot-loader because eng defys have unlimited applications (because we have direct access to MOBO/CPU) like overclocking gpu, installing other OS like Ubuntu, Debian, WP7 etc. into NAND and a lot more.
So the problem here is that the tools required for ENG switch is only available to Motorola employees. Till now we have no further information on it. The tools are TI OMAP BOARD CONFIGURATION TOOL and a 16MB .bin file. Other significance of this method is that it might also unlock other phones with OMAP(3xxx/xxxx?) board. Also this method seems to be very stable.
So the good news is that this software is available for most Motorola repair centers. That means it would be easier to get a leak. Of course the highly paid Motorola engineers with 6digit paycheck wont leak it but we should consider low level repair executives (they already leak sbfs and RSDlite).
So my suggestion is we start a bounty thread in XDA to tempt them.
If you have a solution and if you are concerned about anonymity, please PM me.
PS : There are lots of bounty threads in xda.
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
the|gamer said:
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm. It depend's on which country you are from.
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this). And someone with access to Motorola's employees (I think the user racca works on a Moto distributor, but I'm not sure of it, I think he mentioned it in some thread a few months ago) could rush and "bribe" them. If people could be a bit more clear about which kind of employees should have access to this software, I could try and convince one of them (you know, people here in Brazil aren't that much into honesty, but are a lot into money) about heading us a leak from TI's software. I'll have to take my phone to MOTOAssist soon ("menu" and "back" keys' backlights are weaker than normal), so I'd have at least an actual reason to talk to an assist technician (assuming they have access to the board configuration tool).
Yet, since I'm no hacker (yet, I'm planning on getting a Nook Color - which community here in XDA seems to provide all you need to start your own ROM - and starting messing around with it) nor coder (know only a little about C programming), I would not try and mess around with TI's software, but only upload it somewhere and give you guys a link for it.
K3n bH1mur4 said:
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this).
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We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
royale1223 said:
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
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Click to collapse
Dunno, since it's illegal, it may not be the best option to promote it. Obviously, it's still not immoral, but we all know that morality and law often do not converge, so it may be better to go rogue, talking in private with motoassist technicians and stuff like that, because, even if we're just fighting for our rights, we're still using non-legal ways, and risking to be sued for it.
I don't think promoting a website is illegal. What's illegal is hosting an illegal one.
Promoting a website who promises cash for employees of a corporation who leak internal software used by that corp. might be considered illegal in most places. Fortunately (or not, I'll explain why), we have jurisprudence to embase of: in september 1st, last year, a judge here in Brazil condemned Moto to update a customer's Dext/CLIQ to Android 2.1 (Moto did not provide this update here in Brazil, even though it did in many countries) without voiding the warranty.
I know it's just one case, in just one country, and updating an android version is way different than providing unlocked bootloaders (or the tools for users to do so). And, yes, I agree with placing a bounty at the tool. Yet, if we get caught, Moto can still argue that we had other ways to pursue our rights, and we should have used the justice system to do so, if we believed we were that right. Yet, they're a multimillion-worthy company (even bigger after being purchased by Google), and we're a bunch of broke users, at most devs making a couple thousand dollars, and would have little chance against their lawyers. Last, but not least, employers who help us may get caught and fired because of us, and I sincerely want nobody (ok, maybe a few of the highest executives) to get fired just for me to get an unlocked BL.
So, my point is: let's make this a stealth action. Get a reason for your phone to be taken to Motoassist (no intentional bricking, please! You must flash an official SBF before taking it there! - at least if your phone is still under warranty), get to talk with one of their technicians, and mention - indifferently - that some guys are giving alway big money for any Moto employee who leaks that TI OMAP software. Something like this: "hey, did you hear that crazy devs at this dev forum are paying the first moto technician to hand them some sort of software? Something OMAP-related, I don't know for sure. All I know is that the reward is some nice cash."
When the word spread, we could have an unlocked bootloader within a month.
Yet, we got a single issue to deal: how to ensure the person who gives us the SW first will actually receive the cash? I've seen a few bounties here before, but them all were settled by XDA devs (so the bounty keeper could just donate the sum to that dev), never saw something like paying "outsiders".
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
swapnil360 said:
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Talk with this guy. If he has access to a copy of TI's SW, and handle it to us, I'm pretty sure we could him get a nice reward. Not as high as if putting a bounty, but definitely enough to make the effort worth it.
I mean, supposing that this is actually gonna help unlock EVERY OMAP 3 (and possibly all OMAP-based phones) out there, and that this way the process is reversible (at least to me, it looks like no eFuse is being blown there, you know, assistance technicians can't just blow eFuses like that - taking the phone to the assistance under warranty shouldn't void it, and that's what a blown eFuse would do), loads of people would help. Imagine a single dollar from every OMAP 3 XDA user (take a look here for an INCOMPLETE list of OMAP 3 devices with ~30 ANDROID ONLY phones/tablets), that would make a lot of money.
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
hailmary said:
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we would ensure him that.
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
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Click to collapse
do u know motorola mobility service center in mbai?
we only hav private shops with motos certificate...
i dont think they can help...
all they say is we'll send it to factory(?)
Sent from my MB525 using xda premium
@hemil Please pm me.
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
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Click to collapse
Hey buddy... just wait for my call today...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Putting up an ads offering money for violation the law may be a bit problematic. No website will be excited to host it. Another issue is that in the end someone will have to actually post it, someone in particular. And that one person will be in danger of being a subject of interest of various law enforcement agencies. You know, at the end of the day they always want someone to put the responsibility on, the culprit, a scapegoat. So you make heat and you put some particular person into it even before there is any result.
I would prefer to focus more on personal face to face private communications with the service guys. It's harder to prove and if something goes wrong (the guy records it etc.) our guy can always say he was just kidding, bullshitting, bigmouthing.
Anyway, if you are thinking about this seriously, here are few remarks.
don't offer the particular sum, it's not tactical; not even here should be mentioned any particular number; instead, let the service guy ask his price
if the first contact with a potential source is established, ask first for a proof; specify what the proof is supposed to be (a screenshot? a video recording of the software in action?)
figure out a way how to actually collect the money; people are willing to donate but they will not donate to anyone, only to someone trustworthy (but Epsylon will surely want to have nothing to do with everything even remotely questionable, let alone illegal); the "collector" will be under the lights, he may get attention of people we don't want to deal with
who actually will be allowed to donate? anyone? how to avoid an agent to donate and then simply track where the money is going?
figure out a way how to actually make a safe and smooth deal (money <-> software); will it be in person or electronically? how to verify we are given what we paid for? classical problem: no one of both parties is willing to make his move first, but we can't give away the money for a software we would start verifying not until the money is gone
figure out how to avoid being robbed (fake offers from people who would want to grab the money and run away) as well as being caught (fake offers from the dummy guy - LE agent); in both cases the correct proof might be given, though, but the intentions are wrong
For the particular mechanics of the exchange in person, one of numerous possible ways may go like this:
our guy comes with an intentionally bricked Defy repairable only with the software in question together with the ordinary USB cable (or without, if special USB cable is needed; in that case the cable must be part of the deal), and with an empty flash drive recognizable at the first sight; no money on him
our guy passes the flash drive and the Defy (and the USB cable, if no special cable is needed) to the "source" and watches closely
the source copies the software onto the flash drive, runs the software from the flash drive, connects the Defy via the cable provided and actually unbricks the phone (this must be more elaborated on; what if the software uses some libraries from the windows directories etc. which are not copied onto the flash drive? he may or may not have the installer, but just copying the installer isn't enough, he would have to copy the installer on the flash drive, then run the installer from it and install it back onto the flash drive and run it from there)
our guy gets the phone (and the cable) back, the source unplugs the flash drive and keeps it for now, our guy watches the flash drive is not connected to anything from now on
now the software is copied onto the flash drive and verified it's working, thus ordinary hand-to-hand exchange may proceed; our guy didn't bring the money to avoid being robbed, they both now may go grab the money or our guy may call his buddy with the money etc. (also needs to be heavily elaborated on)
Sensitive parts must be detailed in-depth, I am just indicating the outline, one of many possible. Still it's very far from perfect.
As you can see it's not that easy and there are many potential points of failure so this action may never really come to the practical realization.
What about a little bit different or alternative ways? Are there any? It would be useful to ask Epsylon what he would actually wish for the most - had he been able to wish for anything.
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
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Click to collapse
huh !! think about moto when they actually ditch us with promises ? whats wrong if what we are screaming for last 1 year . and didnt get any updates ? huh think about tht before u speak about illegal stuffs . if moto is doing all sought of ways to keep us away from our rights . what we do undercover to get us right can no way be questioned when we have told thousands of times that we need updates .
more over the authority can question us only and only when they are themselves self guilt free .... but instead they are pretending to be saint sitting behind the curtains and doing all sought of locking stuff to deprive us of our rights
@jhonsmithx Let's not get ahead of ourselves. First of all lets concentrate on getting the source. Also I urge users to use a bit of social engineering to do that(using fb/g ). We'll put together a plan according to the situation after that. Also note that this is a pretty long shot. We might not get a source after all.
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could think of atleast 10 ways to share anonymously. Though I wont be posting them here.
Hi,
I have been an i9003 user for a long time now. But, since I bought the phone I have been constantly having problems with it. I have taken my phone to Samsung service several times for problems such as unable to sync push notifications, GPS not working, dead display, bad lock key and recently the boot loop also known as the pseudo reset problem.
All in all, I have made around 10-12 trips to several service centers in Delhi, India. Finally to my surprise, Samsung told me that they'll not service my phone as they thought it was working fine and all those problems are actually added features on the phone.
I have also seen a good number of users on this forum constantly having such problem (especially the pseudo reset and push notification) . Therefore, I thought why not ask the i9003 users here, Can we file a lawsuit against Samsung in India for such a phone with inherent hardware problems? If yes, how can we progress with it?
surely go ahead.
vishal24387 said:
surely go ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think what he meant was start a class action lawsuit.
Sent from my GT-I9003 using XDA
Yes, I meant a class action lawsuit. I have already tried sending them letters and emails but they don't respond. Moreover, problems like pseudo reset, bad GPS and internal SD failure are signs of bad quality hardware. (causing loss of crucial data and contacts)
Plus I have suffered a lot from their bad service and poor management. This was my first high end device (at least for me) but it shattered all my hopes and I believe it is the same for a lot of users here. If all of the users with these problems come forward, it will substantiate our claims and maybe we will force Samsung to do a call back for this device. (which might also help all the people who are out of warranty and can't afford the expensive replacement of the MB)
yep go ahead . hope you have the proof of service center visits/ job sheets. If you can prove that you have to service center numerous time then you may easily win .also there is a big chance that halfway through the case Samsung will try to settle with you and will probably offer you full refund.
tamoghno said:
yep go ahead . hope you have the proof of service center visits/ job sheets. If you can prove that you have to service center numerous time then you may easily win .also there is a big chance that halfway through the case Samsung will try to settle with you and will probably offer you full refund.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am taking about a class action lawsuit, which will involve all the users having these issues.
Ulfric said:
I am taking about a class action lawsuit, which will involve all the users having these issues.
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Click to collapse
count me in! my sl is faulty as well. twice been sent to the service center, due to faulty board miscommunication with int. sd and short circuit. repair time also took long (about a month and a week on my second repair) eating up my warranty dates.
Wahaha123 said:
count me in! my sl is faulty as well. twice been sent to the service center, due to faulty board miscommunication with int. sd and short circuit. repair time also took long (about a month and a week on my second repair) eating up my warranty dates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for showing interest, but I am looking for i9003 owners in India with hardware issues and unsatisfactory service. (maybe advantageous to owners in other countries if we get a judgment in our favor)
I believe we should not settle for cheap hardware as we paid a good premium for this device. The issue of pseudo reset is happening to almost every other user and may happen all of a sudden to any user causing loss of messages, contacts and settings (also FC in many apps).
Hell Yeah!!!
I am with you.. But How to proceed? Have u talked to any lawyer?
Lawyers and all that is a mess.. Just file a complaint at the consumer forum and we'll join u on the same complaint..
Yup, create a thread on http://www .consumer courtforum.in/f50/ (remove spaces) and others will follow. No need to ask any lawyer. If we succeed we all can get full refund, or even indemnity for the phone (OR maybe nothing ).
kajal_palpara said:
I am with you.. But How to proceed? Have u talked to any lawyer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ivAnash said:
Lawyers and all that is a mess.. Just file a complaint at the consumer forum and we'll join u on the same complaint..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing I know for sure is that they won't give you any refund or replacement through the service channel. Their service managers are like collection agents they'll even harass you so that they don't have to give you a refund/replacement.
I sent them a legal notice more than a week back but haven't heard back from them. It's been about three months since I am pursuing this issue. But, I am yet to file a complaint in a consumer forum.
As I said earlier a class action lawsuit will substantiate everybody's claim. I'll try and get some professional legal advice and get back to everyone of you through PM. Thanks for showing support!
santoshsadani009 said:
Yup, create a thread on http://www .consumer courtforum.in/f50/ (remove spaces) and others will follow. No need to ask any lawyer. If we succeed we all can get full refund, or even indemnity for the phone (OR maybe nothing ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, is it an official consumer court discussion forum? All, I have seen is people making complaints without any follow up.
Update
Me and my lawyer had a long chat with Mr. Sumit, Area Service Manager at Samsung, Delhi (you can find his contact details via google). He blatantly refused receiving any letters and notice and also said that they won't be providing any refund or replacement even though it's a recurring issue. Therefore, I am proceeding with the case in the Consumer Forum.
Anybody interested in doing the same can contact me here or via PM. I have contacted a few people on the consumer court forum as suggested by santoshsadani009. (There are many many people with the same problem and Samsung is shamelessly refusing that the problem exists). I'll be glad if someone from Delhi NCR comes forward and joins me in the lawsuit.
Ulfric said:
Update
Me and my lawyer had a long chat with Mr. Sumit, Area Service Manager at Samsung, Delhi (you can find his contact details via google). He blatantly refused receiving any letters and notice and also said that they won't be providing any refund or replacement even though it's a recurring issue. Therefore, I am proceeding with the case in the Consumer Forum.
Anybody interested in doing the same can contact me here or via PM. I have contacted a few people on the consumer court forum as suggested by santoshsadani009. (There are many many people with the same problem and Samsung is shamelessly refusing that the problem exists). I'll be glad if someone from Delhi NCR comes forward and joins me in the lawsuit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i could, i would have followed you on the consumer forum even though being from different city. But fortunately (Or unfortunately ), I don't have the pseudo reset problem, which is the major problem for this phone. But i do have the push notification problem, and that's why I don't use my primary email with my phone and its really annoying to have to start the PC everytime to check emails.
Anyways, go ahead with the consumer forum website, i think its the best idea because i have seen companies such as nokia responding to the queries and problems on the forum.
santoshsadani009 said:
If i could, i would have followed you on the consumer forum even though being from different city. But fortunately (Or unfortunately ), I don't have the pseudo reset problem, which is the major problem for this phone. But i do have the push notification problem, and that's why I don't use my primary email with my phone and its really annoying to have to start the PC everytime to check emails.
Anyways, go ahead with the consumer forum website, i think its the best idea because i have seen companies such as nokia responding to the queries and problems on the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am actually filing the case in my local consumer redressal forum. You can still support the case by providing a written statement that you face the issue. I'll attach it with my documents as a proof and will ask for proper compensation to all the affected users.
Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Funniest post so far today...
Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
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Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.
atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.
raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.
mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.
No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.
geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!