So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced!

So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced! - Captivate General

So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced!
I recently bricked my captivate. It turned into a brick. Nothing happened at all. So i called samsung when ATT wouldnt replace it, and i told them it would shut off every once in a while and then one day it wouldnt turn on again. they gave me a new one!!!
so here i am, starting an AT&T/Samsung Support story thread. Tell us what you told them, and the results!

Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

cropythy said:
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message

10c for a text message isn't honest but that doesn't mean lying about what you did to your phone should be condoned.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

First off, I don't think anybody has managed to actually brick one of these phones - even the ones who have deliberately tried to do so.
Secondly, if you can't live with the restrictions AT&T has put on the phone, you have 30 days to return it. If you want to hack or modify your phone go ahead - but be prepared to accept the consquences for your actions.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

you could always one click odin3 restore and be fine!

This is hands down, 100% wrong. YOU were playing around with your phone. YOU knew the risks and you decided to flash/update/whatever your device and ended up with a partial brick. (to my knowledge there has not been a fully bricked captivate yet)
It is YOUR responsibility to replace the phone if YOU damage it in any way. NOT At&t.
It always irks me when people manipulate retailers/manufacturers to get things replaced 'under warranty' when in fact, the warranty has been voided.

Not a good idea to make up a story
Its not like they cannot find out that you were the culprit who bricked it when the phone gets back to QA. And believe me...they WILL find out. Once they find out and if they decide to care you are technically liable for the full price of the phone in addition to what they deem are damages
Additionally it will just lead to more efforts by AT&T to keep modders out, hurting us all at xda in the process.

wuxingwarrior3 said:
Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
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So being dishonest makes it all right?
Guess what? No one tricked anyone into buying a phone. AT&T does not change terms and conditions without giving you cause to cancel your contract. If you don't like the price of text messages, then don't text; or go with a cheaper carrier.
If you don't like the restrictions don't buy the phone.
And you probably justify downloading music, apps, and movies because they cost to much or not good enough quality?

what does it mean to breake?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I agree with the above posters.
When I bought this phone, I knew I was going to root it, ROM it, edit the files and such. I knew at the same time that doing so would void my warranty and make me liable for any damage I did to the phone. Understanding that made me more careful about what I put on my phone, and made me research the HELL out of any changes I made before I made them, and how to fix them if something went wrong.
Also, it's, so far, IMPOSSIBLE to completely brick a captivate, since you can just use Odin3 to reinstall software. I would think the only way to brick one would be hardware damage from taking it apart, or smashing it with a hammer or something crazy like that.
Just go to this thread, download the firmware, Odin3 and the pitfile and reinstall your phone's OS.
http: // forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731989

Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.

wuxingwarrior3 said:
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
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What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.

I'm sorry, but in my world, if I install linux on a brand new dell or HP computer, and the screen shorts, my warranty doesn't become void. I can't receive software technical support because I am not running the software the sold me, but if the hardware is defective, software has ZERO to do with it. So the limitations that AT&T place on cell phones that if you flash a new ROM it's warranty is void is ridiculous, and downright fraudulent.

alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"

alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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Click to collapse
How about price fixing, dubious business practices, illegal political contributions, tax evasion, and breach of trust (These are allegations that samsung was CAUGHT doing, imagine all the stuff that's been going on behind closed doors).
http://www.corp-ethics.com/company/samsung/samsung-give-825m-charity.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/business/worldbusiness/17iht-17samsung.12083418.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/European-Union-Price-Fixing-DRAM,10462.html
NOW AGAIN, I'm not saying because Samsung engaged in these practices that it justifies one man's deceitful actions, all I'm saying is that no one is perfect... And I don't want to get started on what AT&T is guilty of.

Kreiger1981 said:
(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
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Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win

wuxingwarrior3 said:
Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone is already ridiculously easy to flash and virtually impossible to brick, and we still have ethically bankrupt idiots pulling these stunts and then coming here to brag about it!
I would agree that we have blatant price fixing in regards to the price of text messages and probably in regards to other services too. These issues need to be addressed through the appropriate legal avenues. None of them turn "wrong" into "right".

Someone should sticky the below post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=753946
It IS possible to brick the phone. Anyone who spouts off about how it is impossible is dead wrong. See post seven of the above thread. While what the OP did is wrong on some level, the severity is debatable for the next hundred years. I will say that the community shares some responsibility though. There are not enough warnings about bricking, everyone simply states that it's nearly impossible. I've seen numerous posts asking for help on a device that is as the OP described in his other thread and the only things that are posted are the typical "It can't be bricked, you're just doing it wrong" posts. Having personally seen one such device, I've read a lot of threads about it. Most are simply stuck at the android failsafe screen or in a boot loop but there are indeed complete bricks and not enough attention is given to them or how to avoid them. In short, the OP does deserve some slack.

Wow wtf happened to this site?
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.

Related

Rampant fraud

All of this GB radio leak talk has me extremely pissed and saddened. You guys saying "I'll take the chance, I have insurance" are committing fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, do you have no Moral compass? You are breaking the LAW (committing a FELONY) and you are costing all of us NON-ASSHOLES money. I have a higher insurance rate than I used to because of all the fraudulent claims, we all have encrypted bootloaders because of all the fraudulent claims....
If you run unsigned code and the phone breaks, that is YOUR FAULT, not the OEM or anyone else's.
Honesty is a virtue, and many of you are lacking it, your families would be so proud.
It's a damn shame that jcase pointed out the error and you guys attack him and say that you don't care, you'll just defraud people. I hope Asurion subpoenas your IP addresses and files lawsuits against you all, criminal and civil. Seriously.

I would just like to point out the the OP that his message is in futility to anyone he intends it for. Just saying

This has always made me wonder...
I can drive down the street with my phone held out the window and when it drops I can have it replaced (via insurance) without hearing someone yell fraud. Sure its stupid, but I could do it.
How is this different?

Morkai Almandragon said:
This has always made me wonder...
I can drive down the street with my phone held out the window and when it drops I can have it replaced (via insurance) without hearing someone yell fraud. Sure its stupid, but I could do it.
How is this different?
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If you threw the phone out the window it would be fraud...
Right vs wrong. Deception vs honesty. Being a good person vs being an asshole.
Does no one ever look in the mirror anymore???
Fraud costs us all, and you have to be one selfish asshole to commit it. You are no more important than I, so why should you be able to cheat a company that will require ME to pay more?

yareally said:
I would just like to point out the the OP that his message is in futility to anyone he intends it for. Just saying
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If 50 people read it I'll be happy. Just letting them know that there are still some honest people left who will look down upon them for their selfishness. I don't care if any of them change their ways, so long as they know they are assholes.

awwilson21 said:
If 50 people read it I'll be happy. Just letting them know that there are still some honest people left who will look down upon them for their selfishness. I don't care if any of them change their ways, so long as they know they are assholes.
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Click to collapse
No offense but no one cares what people say on the internet. No one is telling it to their faces so they just shrug it off.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Fine with me if someone wants to claim insurance fraudulently, but don't brag about it. Pretty obvious.
Sent from your mom's.

awwilson21 said:
All of this GB radio leak talk has me extremely pissed and saddened. You guys saying "I'll take the chance, I have insurance" are committing fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, do you have no Moral compass? You are breaking the LAW (committing a FELONY) and you are costing all of us NON-ASSHOLES money. I have a higher insurance rate than I used to because of all the fraudulent claims, we all have encrypted bootloaders because of all the fraudulent claims....
If you run unsigned code and the phone breaks, that is YOUR FAULT, not the OEM or anyone else's.
Honesty is a virtue, and many of you are lacking it, your families would be so proud.
It's a damn shame that jcase pointed out the error and you guys attack him and say that you don't care, you'll just defraud people. I hope Asurion subpoenas your IP addresses and files lawsuits against you all, criminal and civil. Seriously.
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Click to collapse
Just wondering with your strong moral compass do you let others know when you record their phone calls? Being that you not letting someone know they are being recorded could make you an asshole. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14171309#post14171309

jett2314 said:
Just wondering with your strong moral compass do you let others know when you record their phone calls? Being that you not letting someone know they are being recorded could make you an asshole. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14171309#post14171309
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Click to collapse
Nice try, but in my job I actually investigate fraud, and I start every phone call with "This call is being recorded" and then I ask them to state their name and say that they are aware of being recording. Having that built-in would make my job easier....
Want to try me again? This time in the bonus round where all rewards are doubled?

jett2314 said:
Just wondering with your strong moral compass do you let others know when you record their phone calls? Being that you not letting someone know they are being recorded could make you an asshole. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14171309#post14171309
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Click to collapse
That could also be a crime. If you are in one of the twelve states listed in this article you would need consent from all parties on a call before you record. I wonder how this would work for cellphones with different area codes since they are mobile and all. For instance, if I have a Hawaii number but I travel to Florida would the law apply to my geographic location at time of making call or where my number is based out of?
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

I for one would feel bad about doing it in this case because we were warned before hand. I approach things like tethering differently because I feel like I already pay for data, etc, etc...But this seems different to me (albeit tethering is wrong too). I don't think I could send it in for warranty exchange after being careless and ignored warnings, but, I'm not one to throw stones either way.

miketoasty said:
No offense but no one cares what people say on the internet. No one is telling it to their faces so they just shrug it off.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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They'll care when/if they are getting investigated and possibly sent to prison over a $500 phone. Insurance fraud nets you an average sentence of over 2 years in the penal system.... My investigations have led to almost as much jail-time as Denzel's character in "Training day"!!!!!

I'm sure you do. As for post, although I agree it's wrong to mislead someone. I feel it's not your position to pass judgment on to others since you benefit from their work.

Your insurance is higher because your holding a nearly $600 phone, not because of the minuscule % of people doing fraudulent claims. You would be shocked at the #"s of people that have droids to those who root. I work for vzw and honestly probably 1 out of every 20 droids I sell, does the person actually know what rooting is. On that note, they've heard of it, but don't know anything about it and when we explain the voided warranty, they quickly loose interest. It takes someone that is pretty confident in their PC skills to actually follow through with the root process. Plus the ones that actually do get through the process usually know enough to fix any issues they may come across. Ie. Everyone flashing older radios and going back to froyo. Bottom line its all about #s and it is NOT the reason behind Asurion raising monthly cost. Its the device...
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App

Does anyone find it funny that folks are getting bent out of shape over insurance claims, yet insurance companies screw the end user, be it medical, dental, whatever, constantly.
Just stop it with the moral compass crap and insurance talk. Neither belong together. The insurance company certainly has no moral compass. Two wrongs don't make a right...but a right and a wrong, still equals a wrong.
So you either win, or you lose. Moral compass doesn't pay any bills, and it doesn't make either side play fair, just because one side adheres to it.
--Sent from my phone, and off kilter moral compass.

jett2314 said:
I'm sure you do. As for post, although I agree it's wrong to mislead someone. I feel it's not your position to pass judgment on to others since you benefit from their work.
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Click to collapse
How do I benefit from people returning their phones fraudulently??
I don't get it?
Are you saying I benefit because they made a call recorder? In no way is any dev telling anyone to commit fraud, so I obviously am not passing judgement on any of them....
I am passing judgement on the people that cost me $$$$.
I work in the field, so let me tell you, BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING when fraud gets to the insane levels that they have here, and they will respond with appropriate rate hikes and litigation. In fact XDA developers themselves could face court fines if Asurion subpoenaed them and they didn't divulge the IP addresses of the admitted defrauders.

adrynalyne said:
Does anyone find it funny that folks are getting bent out of shape over insurance claims, yet insurance companies screw the end user, be it medical, dental, whatever, constantly...
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Click to collapse
What a minute, did you peak at my latest medical bill? Their moral compass led them to my bank account.

I don't get how its fraud say I accidebtly dropped my phone out the window of my car...I knew before hand that I could drop it and break it but it happened so now let's say I rooted my phone and and it pricked I knew before that it could brick but it happened...it goes the same for swimming with your phone or doing anything else **** give me a break its not like people are breaking their phone on purpose I would agree when it comes to that but their not.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

lrs421 said:
What a minute, did you peak at my latest medical bill? Their moral compass led them to my bank account.
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hahaha!
Aint that the truth!

adrynalyne said:
Does anyone find it funny that folks are getting bent out of shape over insurance claims, yet insurance companies screw the end user, be it medical, dental, whatever, constantly.
Just stop it with the moral compass crap and insurance talk. Neither belong together. The insurance company certainly has no moral compass. Two wrongs don't make a right...but a right and a wrong, still equals a wrong.
So you either win, or you lose. Moral compass doesn't pay any bills, and it doesn't make either side play fair, just because one side adheres to it.
--Sent from my phone, and off kilter moral compass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you feel like the insurance companies are screwing you, then don't get insurance. Very simple. I'm sure you can afford to pay for a catastrophic illness or disability out of pocket... Most people cannot, and rely on insurance to handle the burden...
You sign an agreement with them, actually a legally binding contract!!!! They don't violate it, so why should you be allowed to?? Because you want to stick it to "the man"????? Great reasoning.
Anyway, I'm out. Got business.

S-OFF will NOT be an OTA

An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be told if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

oover the phone to who?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

You will have to call T-Mobile to get S-OFF. Also I was told it wold be in about a month, the same time as the EVO 3D
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

No offense, but one thing I've learned, reps don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.

sakuul said:
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be to if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this is true then this sucks...i wouldn't want to void my warranty for this.

Well this sucks. Hard.

Just have to wait and see, I read elsewhere where the s-off would not void your warranty, but flashing a custom ROM would.
Did the Rep say when the unlock for the bootloader would be available?

About a month. It's in the third post
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

Now usually with any phone I wouldn't think twice...I would do this immediately.
BUT, since I've already returned one Sensation for problems, I do not want to risk voiding my warranty (in case I need it in the future for dust under the screen or something).

If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
It makes sense that they'd want to get people to agree to it before they give s-off, that skirts U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how T-Mobile is going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning. I'll go buy a Nexus S, and deal with the lower res screen, slower processor, less ram, no memory expansion, pathetic build quality, and a screen I don't like so that I can do what I want with the device I purchase.
Oh and that Nexus S will be on AT&T, I pay for an AT&T family plan for my parents already, the only reasons I opened a T-Mobile account were to support local business (well the U.S. arm of T-Mobile and HTC at least) and to get the Sensation.

No Offense but sounds bull**** to me..stupid reps dont know what they are talkin about...thats like the presidents maid saying we are bombing russia tomm...Im sure HTC would risk all the bad cred this would cause after they just opened up the Dev section at HTC to a releationship with private DEVS...no way!! Within 2 weeks is my bet!! just long enuff so we dont return under the 30 days,, to be honest idk..it will get figured out by devs here and elsewhere and in the meantime im running a rom i was trying to get perfect on my OG EVO(RIP) for months..now its flawless and on roids!!,,JUST MY OPINION...NO FLAMES>>>

So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense

_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
There's a reason that hardware manufacturers are required to perform warranty replacements or repairs on devices regardless of the software being used. You'd never hear Acer or HP deny your request for warranty replacement of a bad motherboard simply because you wiped the pre-installed Windows OS for a Linux flavor.
That rep must be smoking some seriously good stuff, as well as be very ignorant of U.S. laws and regulations just to say something like that.
Come to think of it, I'll bet he works undercover for Samsung or Motorolla

_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why they have a TOS - Terms of Service. They are not violating any US laws unless they contradict their own TOS. You know when you get your phone and on the manual there's a crap ton of fine prints? or once your phone is turned on and you have to check "I agree". If you took the time to read any of the information in those "TOS" or "policy" than you will understand that their behinds are definitely covered.
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.

tigerz0202 said:
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
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If any of this is true at all. Than it seems they are going about it similar to getting your phone "unlocked" to go out of country. It's on a "by request" issue and if its in their TOS than if you want it. you abide by it.

mykoe817 said:
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.

_kansei_ said:
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post. And I completely understand where your coming from. I can see HTC stance on this as I work with info-systems for businesses and what they are doing is pretty normal in terms of proprietary software/hardware. When I say proprietary I mean that this software is designed to work with specific hardware only.
Unlike windows/linux or other computer operating systems. Which are not proprietary in terms of hardware utilized. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Computer operating systems are designed to function with a wide range of hardware. Each OS is bundled with thousands of drivers. Also the resource of drivers available online. I work with lots of firewalls. All of which comprise of its own OS. That OS is only designed for that box only. If I mess with that OS, the whole box is no longer under warranty.
I wanna say its more of a privileged that HTC is unlocking their software giving users the privileged to do custom software and etc.
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
I second your comment about the HTC rep.

I'm not too worried. Even if this is true, SOMEONE here is bound to come up with a way to turn S-OFF despite T-mobile or HTC.

Problem here is I think your missing the point... The way I read the OP is that you have to call T-Mobile or whoever...not HTC to get S=OFF. Now correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like a T-Mobile stipulation...not a requirement from HTC. Which would be the "Documentation" another poster was talking about in another thread.
Seems some are jumping the gun by saying "Well if its hardware related ...blah blah; they should replace my phone under warranty." I don't think anyone disputes that. It's when you go and brick your phone with a bad flash or you can't follow directions etc..that that phone is "YOURS" and not for the carrier to eat the cost because you screwed up your phone & want a replacement.
If OP is true, I say its a Carrier stipulation not HTC because they already sold the phone to T-Mobile or whoever already and if your bricking the hell outta phones, HTC is gonna be doing great business with all of the warranty replacements to the Carrier...why would they care ...its the carriers losing money on bricked replacements and the carrier requesting more or less "stipulations" to keep track of people S=Off ing & rooting or flashing their phones.

mykoe817 said:
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave some thought to that before I posted. Driving, you have to prove you're at least slightly capable of not killing yourself and others behind the wheel for 5 minutes before they'll give you a license to kill --I mean drive (sorry, hit by a car while cycling recently, I'm still bitter). As a consumer in the U.S., there are laws at the federal and state level that protect our interests against the evil corporations, though only a little of course as those evil corporations have way more power in our government than we do.
It's not a privilege we earn like driving, it's one given to all of us.
Screw dealing with this, I'm getting an iPhone (kidding of course)

Finally G2X class action lawsuit!

http://www.law360.com/technology/articles/258771/lg-struck-with-class-action-over-smartphone-defects . credit to brooklyng2x over on lgforum for finding it.

Would be nice if you didn't have to sign up with a website in order to get on board with the CAL.

The link isn't working for me
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf

He is right! Somebody had to do it! LG deserves it!

Well now LG won't give us GB at all lol they're probably saying, "Well here's the lawsuit, now we don't have to work on GB anymore."

this needed to be done, this isnt the first time lg has had a class action lawsuit. They have had one for their refrigerators.

nyyankees3511 said:
how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you kind sir!
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!

I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.

nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said.
Like I said in other thread: Some people can't see past their own nose.

I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.

nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty

baldwinguy77 said:
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the first run of this phone is it not? Yep sure is. I went through these issues with the original iPhone release as well. Since it was the only phone Apple released they were able to focus resources on it solely. LG, like most companies is chasing the $$ and therefore spreading themselves way too thin. I"m not making excuses but it's the reality of it all.
And yep, I know about the corruptness of the system. My brother is a personal injury attorney, I see it all the time.

mahgninnuc93 said:
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you give this more credit than it actually has. LG won't even notice something like this until it makes the run of the legal system waiting periods, response times, etc.
At best, you might see a more controlled response publicly from LG. You might see information dry up on support forums, from LG as they control responses and limit anything that could be used against them. But for development, the biggest hurdle in GB was not bugs on the G2x. As you saw recently, LG released or will soon release 2 GB handsets. This was most likely the biggest hurdle in G2x updates. Having a single LG wide GB story, then customize to individual handset. It makes no sense to think that LG would customize GB for a released handset, prior to insuring the GB release for new handsets was in place.
The day a finalized version of a LG GB os was in place company wide, thats when the porting to G2x, with any fixes, started. The work became integrating the fixes in to the GB update.
Remember, these guys are into making money, not updating for free.
I've read somewhere on this forum about speculation about LG pulling the G2x over marketing concerns in competition with the SEnsation. This does make some sense. LG will never outsell HTC. But in an end of summer market, post Sensation, a GB G2x might make a bigger splash NONE of the signs point to abandonment. Legally they can't do that. But signs do point to repositioning of a product.
I think in the rush to market to be the first Dual Core handset, LG lost, by being first.
just my opinion...

Well, as I just posted at LGs forum, I just want a new sealed updated phone. That's been one of my biggest gripes, I never get a working phone and my end result is a used scratched refurbished one without a matching box? Still with no update to boot. And I'm in WAY better shape than some customers, 'cause I have one that works.....for now.
Patently unfair.

mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is people's willingness to accept the nonsense. If the consumer doesn't complant about these issues, these companies will just get away with it. I don't know about you, but I am tried of just getting defective phones, I exchange it three times and same problem, then politely ask them for a full refund and was refused, saying all they can do is repair it or exchange it for the same model then wrote a letter to their head corporate offices and haven't heard back. LG don't care, they made their money.

jrwingate6 said:
I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to own the phone anymore, you just have to have owned it during the period outlined in complaint. Maybe I'll recoup some of my costs for moving to AT&T.

This is great news.
My view is a bit different. There are defects about a phone I can deal with (ie. backlight bleeding, gps/wifi) but when a phone can't operate as a phone, that draws the line.
The random reboots are the most annoying thing, and some of which don't ever reboot (requires a battery pull to get it working again).
This purchase has given me a very sour taste in my mouth for not only LG and their future products but also T-mobile's sub-par involvement in assisting customers.
I'm beyond the point of going to another carrier, since plans like the one I'm on no longer exist for this price. So unless T-mobile pulls through, I'll say screw the cell-phone market altogether.

[q] HTC- Hell To Customers (new definition)

Official on GSMARENA
"You certainly remember that this spring HTC took a rapid U-turn in their smartphone policy and decided to start locking their bootloaders to prevent unauthorized hacking and modding of the preinstalled software. The Taiwanese company was then quickly made to regret its decision as users from all over the world went online and made their discontent public. In the end, HTC CEO was quick to respond with a promise that they will revert to their old policy.
Except that no action has been taken about bringing the old ways back ever since and everyone is understandably getting impatient. Well, today the company stepped on stage to give us some more details about the when's and how's of the unlocking of the bootloaders.
As it turns out, HTC will still be releasing all its devices with locked bootloaders (booo!), but soon they will be providing a web tool that will let you unlock them if you want to (yay!). However, you will need to create an account in order to use it and "accept legal disclaimers that unlocking may void all or parts of your warranty".
The web tool should be released this month with the international version of the Sensation becoming the first supported smartphone. The EVO 3D and the T-Mobile Sensation 4G should follow right after that. And while this is certainly a wait we can live with, we can't help but notice that this is not what Peter Chou promised in May.
Here’s the exact quote: "Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices.". Are we the only ones to suspect that this is not the end of the saga just yet?"
Source : http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_details...policy_another_storm_brewing_up-news-2962.php
They are now simply takingadvantage of customers....i will soon dispose off this stupid fone and stupid promises and accept samsung....atleast they r not twin faced like htc.....
H - Hell
T - to
c - Customers....
From now this is full form of htc as per all of us who trusted them

Right, because it is totally their fault if you f*ck up your phone or brick it by flashing a bootloader or Rom, and they should totally have to fix it.
/sarcasm
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

Oh come on, Sony is doing the exact same thing. If you're not happy with the HTC method you can always unlock it the XDA way. Like it or not, unlocking your bootloader ALWAYS voided your warranty, the only difference is that now you're unable to hide it.

lalitsehgal21 said:
They are now simply takingadvantage of customers....i will soon dispose off this stupid fone and stupid promises and accept samsung....atleast they r not twin faced like htc.....
H - Hell
T - to
c - Customers....
From now this is full form of htc as per all of us who trusted them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give me a break. If you really believe this, go enjoy Samsung and THEIR broken promises. HTC update their phones way more than Samsung ever will. You should be happy HTC is doing ANYTHING to appease the modding community, especially considering that most/all firmware that we flash onto our phones is based on intellectual property "borrowed" (more like stolen) from HTC in the first place.
HTC is handling this the way they are to cover their asses in case someone bricks their phone flashing it with unsupported software, and frankly, you and I both know a good percentage of the community doesn't have enough brain capacity to avoid certain doom when attempting a lot of these mods.
Also, it's a bit of a stretch to say that everyone is growing impatient. Those of us that were complaining loudly about the policy in the first place were only complaining because we HAD no possible way to unlock our bootloaders. Now we do, thanks to awesome efforts by revolutionary and teamwin. We might be keeping an eye on the developing story, because we'd like if future phones were unlockable out of the box, but the vitrol is not there. They promised us August/September, and it looks like they're standing behind that.

On Samsung you will also loose your warranty by flashing any roms and unlocking the bootloader is easy.

All warranty means in the UK is that the company agrees to replace/repair without question within the warranty period.
The law actually says if something goes wrong in the first 6 months the retailer (not the manufacturer) has to prove the fault was caused by the owner's actions/mistreatment, they of course can send it off to the manufacturer to prove this, by getting a report detailing how unlocking the bootloader caused the button to become faulty.
So if you unlock the bootloader and the power button starts playing up within the first 6 months then the retailer has to prove that it is faulty due to you unlocking the bootloader.
If it were to go wrong after 6 months, and the retailer contested it, you'd have to win the argument that unlocking the bootloader had nothing to do with the fault.

First, I want to say I agree with the OP.
xaccers said:
All warranty means in the UK is that the company agrees to replace/repair without question within the warranty period.
The law actually says if something goes wrong in the first 6 months the retailer (not the manufacturer) has to prove the fault was caused by the owner's actions/mistreatment, they of course can send it off to the manufacturer to prove this, by getting a report detailing how unlocking the bootloader caused the button to become faulty.
So if you unlock the bootloader and the power button starts playing up within the first 6 months then the retailer has to prove that it is faulty due to you unlocking the bootloader.
If it were to go wrong after 6 months, and the retailer contested it, you'd have to win the argument that unlocking the bootloader had nothing to do with the fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be nice if things were that rational here in the USA. Here, if you've modified the device, Congress has affirmed you can't be locked up or charged with any sort of intellectual property violations, but the retailer and HTC can deny warranty services. And they do, even in cases where the issue clearly was not caused by unlocking the device. Hence the need for some of us to use 3rd party methods and relock before seeking service for issues we know an unlock did not create.
I am glad that XDA allows voices of dissent to be heard without censorship. This site has not posted my polite disagreement. Notice, the ONLY comments they've got are ones praising HTC.
The Sensation very well may be my last HTC device. I gave them honest money, but they're not giving me honest responses on matters of importance to me.

Oh come, it says it may void all or part of your warranty. So who's to say what HTC will ACTUALLY do.
All this rooting/flashing CAN actually hard the hardware of your phone. You load up an overclocked kernal and your CPU fries. A very realistic scenerio which probably already happened, in this case, it's entirely the users fault!
Picture this, most laptops/devices have a warranty void if removed sticker on them. However, say I opened the laptop up so I can clean out all the dust. A month later the screen dies, what would YOU do if you were in charge of RMA at the company?

Matt1408 said:
Oh come, it says it may void all or part of your warranty. So who's to say what HTC will ACTUALLY do.
All this rooting/flashing CAN actually hard the hardware of your phone. You load up an overclocked kernal and your CPU fries. A very realistic scenerio which probably already happened, in this case, it's entirely the users fault!
Picture this, most laptops/devices have a warranty void if removed sticker on them. However, say I opened the laptop up so I can clean out all the dust. A month later the screen dies, what would YOU do if you were in charge of RMA at the company?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I've said, HTC has ALREADY refused service to devices that were unlocked in the past and I don't expect that to change. I'm not talking about noobs who don't know what they're doing. Let's consider people who have a clue and run into issues not caused by a hack.
If I was in charge of RMA (or anything) at HTC, I'd tell them to go back to the way things were done with their very first Android device and enjoy the fact they're making a good profit.
Neither of us will convince each other of anything. Can't say I'll go on forever in this thread over this. I vote with my wallet. I purchased once HTC promised to never lock again and they've let me down. Those who vote/pay to continue with HTC, I'm happy for you.

Thankx for awsome response everyone ....jst one question why htc promised fake at first.. if that the case it means it was jst a publicity stunt...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App

lalitsehgal21 said:
Thankx for awsome response everyone ....jst one question why htc promised fake at first.. if that the case it means it was jst a publicity stunt...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly how I feel about it. They made a broad open statement that would please ears and got people like me literally won over to buy after that happened. Then they deliver this...
You can even read some of my old posts in this Sensation forum even before release where I was saying I can't get this device if they don't unlock it. Sure 3rd party Devs found a way, but I'm not going to continue this arms race game with HTC. I don't need them and they obviously can carry one without me.
Before I saw the video above and this thread, I was planning to start this thread myself. I just found the video later today when checking out the HTC home page.

I love these threads ...........
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The Radius Kid said:
I love these threads ...........
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys are making way too big a deal out of this. HTC didn't say unlocking "will" void your warranty, they said it "may." If someone overclocks their CPU and melts it down, do you think HTC should replace it under warranty? There's a law (at least in the U.S.) that says a manufacturer can't void your warranty if you modify the product unless they can prove those modifications caused the defect. So in the case of an overclocked and fried CPU, HTC could prove the modifications damaged the phone. If you've overclocked your CPU and the screen dies, they'd have to repair that under warranty. They can never arbitrarily void your entire warranty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

BarryH_GEG said:
You guys are making way too big a deal out of this. HTC didn't say unlocking "will" void your warranty, they said it "may." If someone overclocks their CPU and melts it down, do you think HTC should replace it under warranty? There's a law (at least in the U.S.) that says a manufacturer can't void your warranty if you modify the product unless they can prove those modifications caused the defect. So in the case of an overclocked and fried CPU, HTC could prove the modifications damaged the phone. If you've overclocked your CPU and the screen dies, they'd have to repair that under warranty. They can never arbitrarily void your entire warranty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct.
It's not like they didn't know the operating conditions of the phone when they bought it.
Modify it at your own peril and don't cry if you brick it.

Anyone who expects to do whatever they want to their phone and not void your warranty is retarded. Can you do this to pc's? Tv's? Anything else in any category of consumer products? No, if you don't like it don't buy it. Buying a phone with a policy you don't like then *****ing about it is pretty redundant.

i wish i can use wifi on the sensation
yes hell to customers is right.. what type of phone drops wifi signals like nothin?

magnum_touchpro said:
i wish i can use wifi on the sensation
yes hell to customers is right.. what type of phone drops wifi signals like nothin?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say that if you Sensation drops wifi signals all the time, you probably should change your router, or you have a HW fault on your phone.
Now before you tell me '..but my computer works etc..' mass produced routers for home users generally suck all of them,to find one that actually work as intended is like winning the lottery!
I must admit there is one wifi router i personally haven't had a singe problem with, and that is Apple Airport Extreme(latest revision, probably a couple of years old now), therefore i've told everyone i know to get one, and those(few) that did hav not had a single problem, and even my mother who is 60 years old managed to set it upp correctly with security, on her own.
But i know, i've been reading ppl having problem with even that one, but as i said, it really is a lottery..

RoosterX said:
I would say that if you Sensation drops wifi signals all the time, you probably should change your router, or you have a HW fault on your phone.
Now before you tell me '..but my computer works etc..' mass produced routers for home users generally suck all of them,to find one that actually work as intended is like winning the lottery!
I must admit there is one wifi router i personally haven't had a singe problem with, and that is Apple Airport Extreme(latest revision, probably a couple of years old now), therefore i've told everyone i know to get one, and those(few) that did hav not had a single problem, and even my mother who is 60 years old managed to set it upp correctly with security, on her own.
But i know, i've been reading ppl having problem with even that one, but as i said, it really is a lottery..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your right. When I'm home with my beast of a router (D-link HD) my WIFI is awsome with full bars on every single floor and every single room of a 3 story house. When I'm at a friends house with some ****ty wireless G router, my WIFI sucks. It wont even get full bars in the same room.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Darnell_Chat_TN said:
It would be nice if things were that rational here in the USA. Here, if you've modified the device, Congress has affirmed you can't be locked up or charged with any sort of intellectual property violations, but the retailer and HTC can deny warranty services. And they do, even in cases where the issue clearly was not caused by unlocking the device. Hence the need for some of us to use 3rd party methods and relock before seeking service for issues we know an unlock did not create.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It always amazes me how little consumer protection there seems to be in the US
Thankfully there are other ways to unlock the bootloader without affecting the warranty.

Well guys..... Look at this....deat grip issue was still managable....then came.a big issue of touchscreen sensitivity and after that the panel is made by different brands...now a broken promise yhat too made by ceo himself.....I many times ask myself.... Was this fone tested well before launch or was it a haste move to match gs2.... Either way those like me who trusted htc since years are feelin off to hv trust shaken...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App

AT&T rep: "Your GS4 is slow because you did not activate it properly."

Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.

It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Ha. Funniest post so far today...

Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.

I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.

Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.

atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.

raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.

mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.

No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.

geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people

MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding

geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!

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