Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Ha. Funniest post so far today...
Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
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Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.
atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.
raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.
mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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Click to collapse
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.
No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.
geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!
Related
so i am extremely mad at Tmobile right now. I got a call from their executive office and i was speaking to luca or lusha or somthing like that. basically she told me i was unable to be given a sensation. I then told her that i would be filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau because the people who did on XDA were given Sensations. she then told me she handled all of the Better Business claims and that no one had been given a sensation. but i know for a fact that people on here have been given one. So my question to the community is who offered you a sensation when you called the executive office? i am going to call and ask to speak to them.
Also she told me that at 2:24 today T-mobile received a message saying a software update would come sometime next week. I then asked if it would be gingerbread or just a bug fix. Her response, " Do you know what a software update is? that pissed me of to no end. our conversation ended when she asked me for 20 dollars for a new G2x. i told her she was out of her ****ing mind and told her to be ready for my better business complaint
Then I called corporate so i could file a complaint on lucha or whatever her name was. the lady who answered told me that isn't possible so i asked for the name of the person i was speaking to and she hung up on me. I kept calling back and i kept getting redirected to the desk of luca chase (still not sure how to say or spell her name) and that just royally pissed me off.
i am so mad right now. All i can do is file a complaint. i never expected to be treated this badly.
slowpig38 said:
so i am extremely mad at Tmobile right now. I got a call from their executive office and i was speaking to luca or lusha or somthing like that. basically she told me i was unable to be given a sensation. I then told her that i would be filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau because the people who did on XDA were given Sensations. she then told me she handled all of the Better Business claims and that no one had been given a sensation. but i know for a fact that people on here have been given one. So my question to the community is who offered you a sensation when you called the executive office? i am going to call and ask to speak to them.
Also she told me that at 2:24 today T-mobile received a message saying a software update would come sometime next week. I then asked if it would be gingerbread or just a bug fix. Her response, " Do you know what a software update is? that pissed me of to no end. our conversation ended when she asked me for 20 dollars for a new G2x. i told her she was out of her ****ing mind and told her to be ready for my better business complaint
Then I called corporate so i could file a complaint on lucha or whatever her name was. the lady who answered told me that isn't possible so i asked for the name of the person i was speaking to and she hung up on me. I kept calling back and i kept getting redirected to the desk of luca chase (still not sure how to say or spell her name) and that just royally pissed me off.
i am so mad right now. All i can do is file a complaint. i never expected to be treated this badly.
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This is the problem I see with all the whiners and complainers on this forum. There's a way to communicate, if you lose your cool then you'll get screwed.
Especially in America, people think they're "entitled" to get what they want because of supposed laws or it's in writing, but I tell you this, unless you know the laws to the "T" and you're willing to invest your time, energy, money and so on and so forth, you'll just make it more inconvenient for others, because then the company, even if they're in the wrong, will implement protocols to make it harder for others that come in with the same complaint just because some shmuck didn't know how to communicate without threatening the company.
I'm putting this out because all these complaints will do more harm to us consumers, by making Tmobile or anyother company that feels they're being attacked put up a wall of defenses that will make it less forthcoming for us to do pleasant business with the company, because now we're all looked upon as the enemy.
i only lost my cool after she made it clear that she wouldnt give me a sensation. this was my 3rd time talking to her.
I have a friend that works as a manager at T-mobile who exchanges my phone for a new one everytime a new one I like comes out ... you should also get a friend that manages a store @ tmo ... winning
Seems like a lot of work for one person to handle all of these claims!
Complaint Type Total Closed Complaints
Advertising / Sales Issues 1734
Billing / Collection Issues 9544
Delivery Issues 393
Guarantee / Warranty Issues 478
Other 460
Problems with Product / Service 13784
Total Closed Complaints 26393
Thanks for dragging XDA's name into the mud while *****ing about tmo not giving you **** for free...
Sent from my LG G2x
+1 yeah, no crap. Whiner. Just because others have done it and succeeded and you failed doesn't entitle you to run around and ruin it for everybody else.
well
jacob808 said:
This is the problem I see with all the whiners and complainers on this forum. There's a way to communicate, if you lose your cool then you'll get screwed.
Especially in America, people think they're "entitled" to get what they want because of supposed laws or it's in writing, but I tell you this, unless you know the laws to the "T" and you're willing to invest your time, energy, money and so on and so forth, you'll just make it more inconvenient for others, because then the company, even if they're in the wrong, will implement protocols to make it harder for others that come in with the same complaint just because some shmuck didn't know how to communicate without threatening the company.
I'm putting this out because all these complaints will do more harm to us consumers, by making Tmobile or anyother company that feels they're being attacked put up a wall of defenses that will make it less forthcoming for us to do pleasant business with the company, because now we're all looked upon as the enemy.
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Click to collapse
While i agree that the poster did not handle this right at all. i am fed up with my paycheck being **** paying for all the entitlement programs in this country. BUT we are entitiled to a working phone or a refund. not sure why people want the sensation i have no care for it. the use of entitlment here is not correct since he is entitled to a working phone .
and your last paragraph. the reason people are so pissed off is because of the lack of communication and forthcoming(still believe its out of stock d/t sales)
they already put up the great wall of china and posted it with lies and misleading attempts to get people to hang on to the phone past the 2 weeks.
in no way am i saying that the OP was in the right. but you sounded just as bad.
now lets start spreading this next week date. comeone we need at least 20 threads on it
No $#it man "he got it why can't I" you would probably sell everyone out!!
Faux123 for Dev!!!
Ever hear the saying one bad apple spoils it for the bunch. Well you're the bad apple. You don't get something by demanding it. I really don't think anyone who called really called to get one. We just wanted a phone that works.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
TJBunch1228 said:
Thanks for dragging XDA's name into the mud while *****ing about tmo not giving you **** for free...
Sent from my LG G2x
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POW!!!!
G2x with CM7 and faux kernel. NONSENSE!!!!
This won't lead to nothing. On that note, thread closed.
http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?
smockpuv said:
http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?
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Click to collapse
Old news.
No this is not old news at all. This subject is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is trying to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.
T-Macgnolia said:
No this is not old news at all. This subnet t is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is Beloit.g to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.
malybru said:
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM just cleans bloatware and other things in HTC Sense to help the ROM run smoother. All devices have this CIQ on them, it is not an app but several things that are hidden deep in the ROM and has to be cooked out of the ROM. ASOP ROMs do not have it. Go read this article by azrienoch on it. Make sure to click on the links in the article too then you will have a better understanding of what I mean. You will also see why it is such a big deal.
Update to the current Carrier IQ fiasco with video proof
http://m.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/secret-software-logging-video/
Separate link for the youtube video for easier access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17XQI_AYNo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In the T-Mobile galaxy s 2 forums the carrier IQ the is in the kernel is that where it is in sensation? I can't find any of the know names in my wife's phone.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, because tracking software is being put on many devices we use every day, we should not worry about it?
Perhaps if consumers were made more aware of things like this, they could stem the tide of invasive technology.
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium
ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".
tictac0566 said:
CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how this affects the speed and responsiveness of the phone's OS?
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that is true what you said but most people already know that cops can get your records from a phone company with a search warrant depending on how long that company keeps those records.
This is deferent, a third party collecting all information of what you do on your phone without your consent or knowledge is wrong. This company is also not the government so what right do they have without your consent.
Yes on a console, a PC, and1st and 2nd party apps on your phone you give consent for them to use various monitoring techniques but you have a choice, here with carrier IQ you are not giving that choice it is there and you have to use a crowbar to get it out of your phone.
I'm no fanatic but I do believe in the constitution. It is your right to give away your privacy but it is not for someone else to take it away from you.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.
Shery4life said:
i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carrier is a global company. The company does have offices in London...
http://www.carrieriq.com/company/index.htm
And under the heading "About Carrier IQ"
http://www.sys-con.com/node/1865183
So European phones may have CIQ installed depending on what the mobile provider. Something that our friends over the pond
should research.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
T-Macgnolia said:
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
That is very well put.
If you sit back and do nothing, then nothing will get done.
The more people complain about this, the more something is likely to be done.
As far as the carriers are concerned, they probably think that no one knows that this stuff is even installed!
Its important to show our awareness of this situation, and complain about it.
How about Logging TestApp? I heard that this app helps you erase all the logging apps in the phone, including this one.
This issue just Made ABC news this morning
gtrplr71 said:
This issue just Made ABC news this morning
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This issue made international news.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/
Wow, at first i was reading this thread and had the same, "well whatever" attitude. But after just a couple of minutes googling and reading, this is really messed up. CarrierIQ has issued a cease and dismiss order against the guy in the video, along with threats to sue if he does not publicly apologize.
Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.
Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.
Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.
Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?
Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,
Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!
Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.
amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium
I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."
My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3
block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.
I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.
Wont do anything different. They'll tell you the same thing they told me after I filed a BBB complaint against thrm for my X2. "Your totally right our phones blow, so let me early upgrade you or do ypu want to terminate your contract for X amount of money?"
mike86325 said:
Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the kind words, Its the same angle I talk to Verizon about on the 28th the day that they said the Unlimited Data was gone.. I told them that I found out from everyone but them and how they didn't inform me in any way.
We need to get more people on the non informed purchase angle. They make no mention online or anywhere. Sure Pocketnow and like sites do but they are not selling us the phone. Their image is even worse now that Corp and Tech release 2 different statements.
I really hope this gets unlocked easily because I really like the phone really nice feel to it.
This is a good approach. As someone who pitches in with customer service/support for a tech company, it's often the "nice" people who get better responses, and the quantity of requests can have a bigger affect.... way more than one angry person ranting and raving that you can just write off and ignore.
Also, it's still a person at the other end of the line. They probably are not aware of the situation or don't like it either, but it's their job. It's the people at the top that usually push down these horrible policies, the bean counters and such that don't have to deal with the angry public.
I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel for you guys. I really do. We've tried everything with the One X but to no avail. Good luck with your attempts. These carriers need to remember who gives them their money.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
manchild83 said:
I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the comment and good to hear your advise!
Ok now we really have been miss sold. The answers I have recieved from support are well making there position worse they said that not only the bricking of devices but that these open devices would take down their data networks do to use. If that is the case why release the "Developer Edition". Everything will break lose anyway. We all pre-ordered thinking we got a unlocked Galaxy S3 and now with out any word of additional editions they try and fix things...?
Where was an unlocked phone advertised or even realistically expected?
It sucks but VZW is so big and doesn't care at all, and won't suffer much from it.
Sent from my AT&T Galaxy SIII (SGH-i747)
yes it was expected since EVER model that has been released thats att tmo sprint international korean and us cellular ALL are unlocked.
Thats it it wasn't printed that it was locked it was advertised just like the other Galaxy s3's... They were sell you the same Galaxy S3 with the same experience you would expect unless other wise noted... which it wasn't... They should just offer to unlock our phones and void the warranty. Simple fix and essentially the same thing they have done with the Developer Edition and it would save them some returns..
Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark
I really should say I'm surprised but in reality I'm not. Your right when you say they don't care because I've experienced it for myself and with my gf over the phone and my mom for that matter. The sad part is they are getting way too big for even themselves and like most companies don't have very good customer service. I'm unlocked as well and have never had issues with voice calls on this phone, only my first phone with a weird rom. It's not there business to ask you if you've installed a custom rom or not. I wouldn't even of answered the question myself.
Personally i would dump verizon if they treated me like that. I was in the store yesterday with my gf and she is a looooong time VZW customer. I'm taking 14 plus years and she went to best buy to get a phone because VZW doesn't know how to take care of customers at all.
It's a sad trend but the bigger the company the worse the customer service is
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
mrbonine said:
Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark
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I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
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Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
ShapesBlue said:
Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
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Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
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Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
ShapesBlue said:
Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
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Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
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I hear that. I have mine until June next year. Not quite sure what I'm doing just yet. The Super power saving mode is quite a nice feature. It basically disables all apps but the essential ones. The battery life then goes way over a day plus on the S5
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Et tu Verizon
Thanks for the info. I did have the MyVerizon app installed, I believe. I don't remember it requesting root, but I sometimes click through those things without paying too much attention (since I'm fairly careful about what goes on the phone); the reason I install software requiring root is to access it (circular, I know) so, they are doing what they must to run. I appreciate the suggestions about other call centers, etc. I do have the contact information from the single most helpful and polite (funny how that goes together) person I talked to through this debacle. I'll drop him a quick note, but really, since they never even bothered to call back, it's clear to me that they want me to leave. Paying over $200 per month to be treated like crap is not something I could ever do. They are big, very profitable, and don't care about anything but extracting cash from people under contract, or too complacent to leave (I'm in the 2nd category until now). Being in a codependent relationship with Verizon is not only self-defeating, but irrational. Until we have some politicians owned by the people instead of corporations we have no chance of reigning these folks in. Sure, they employ lot's of people, but an army of good people working against the best interest of everyone is not good, it's an uncontrollable menace: just look at the banks that gambled with people's homes, lost their bets, then collateralized them when the bottom fell out of their own septic tank of greed. The entire world economy hit an air pocket, but we're still letting the same greed intoxicated pilots fly. My only regret is believing their lies as long as I did. I deserve better, and it's won't be particularly hard to find it. Since the 4.4.3 G3 (nor the 4.1.2 for that matter) are particularly compatible with the GSM carriers, and Samsung is the lookout for the felonious Verizon, I'll probably get a Nexus 5. I think the G5 is better for several reasons, but that's too bad. All of the tech and marketing in the world will not make me "grateful" to manufacturers or carriers that somehow feel controlling how you use the equipment you buy from them is somehow acceptable. The money Verizon cares about is the corporate contracts, since they can manage that process much better, the revenue is less volatile, and they don't have to take calls from subscribers, wasting the money that could be spent on acquisitions, and expanding their market oligarchy. Public utilities create natural monopolies. There are not 2 sets of power lines, or water lines, or sewers running into your home. And the idea that competition from fiber will for improvements from Comcast is false, prices may move, but service will not get better. Only when barriers of entry are low can new competitors help drive down the price of entrenched utilities. We could all create our own mobile system on meshes of unlicensed 5.0 Gig or other spectrum, but it would be very costly to do that and linking this metropolitan radio webs would be tricky. But probably, someone is already working on that. Ask a HAM radio enthusiast about how they handle phone calls over shortwave. They have licenses, yes, but the technology to connect 2-way voice wireless signals to PSTN phone calls has been around for many years. Big corporations exact huge profits and drag down anyone that needs the services, the trick is to find creative ways around them, most importantly by thinking outside of the feature/function cage they've placed around us. Soon, you'll be able to buy just the cable channels you want, perhaps. I have hundreds and I generally watch less than 10.
The accusation flung at me by the enraged employee is little more that hot air. It reflects a corporate culture of mendacity and blame. My fault was to allow him to take control of the conversation, for a millisecond. Whatever I've done to the software on the phone (which, as you noted, was not a ROM change) it's still my phone and not theirs. They don't even provide the "insurance" to replace the failed device, a third party does. I didn't stop my phone from working to get a new phone. Had the replacement worked as well or better as the one it replaced I would have been happy. Now, I'm going over a week with no phone and they will never get paid for that week. The longer it takes to resolve, the less on my final bill, which will be coming up soon. When folks have experiences like this it's best to communicate the problem to the FCC (as if they cared) and their state PUC. Not that they will do anything about it, but it's important to remember they have a duty to regulate whether this group of appointees cares or not. The only thing that affects Verizon is withdrawing my monthly gratuity and when that happens because of abuse, manipulation, and possible fraud, the regulators need to be informed, if only so they can't say they didn't know.
Thanks for the reminder that they have no business asking questions about rooted phones or ROMS. That lingering guilt that one may have done something Daddy Verizon doesn't approve of is there, for sure, but since what I was accused of I didn't do, it was easier to just say, no, I didn't do that.....when I offered to factory reset TWICE during the call and he pretended not to hear me I realized it was all just a manipulative game played by a bully. No, no lunch money for you today, dude. I think they actually hire volatile people and use them as scarecrows. If Verizon didn't want their customers to be exposed to abuse, they'd fire these guys. The second guy was so cold, trying to do the right thing, but hating it. If you've ever been to a time-share presentation and not purchased one, you are familiar with this game. It's not only wrong, but it reflects how truly manipulative and immoral the employers are, they are paying the guy to be insulting, intimidating, and thuggish. So many large companies act this way, it's amazing we let them get away with it. The only way to stop it is to stop paying them and tell them why. I worked in a small hardware store in a small town 30+ years ago. Even when customers were trying some trick, like returning something they didn't buy from us, or a more elaborate ruse (I'll bring the old stuff back tomorrow......), I just explained how it worked and enforced the process; I never shouted, "You are so busted...." These were customers, some making honest errors, some trying to take advantage, but there were none I didn't want to come back again, because it would be bad for business and likely make an enemy. After I leave Verizon I will never give them another dime ever, and I think they honestly don't believe that.
XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
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