Database Info

VZW Knows, also update notification

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.

I always thought they knew, just can't do much about it. However, if they start using that information to deny certain services, it would be a major problem.

We need one of the nifty Verizon employees that frequent here to comment on this.

that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.

or the devs could just change the listing and fake the rom info right?

Well, thats my thought / hope. He read right back to me saying I was running a custom rom. I got to talking with him and he admitted he was rooted as well, and additionally stated that as a whole VZW doesn't pursue the issue. it just tripped me out, that he read it out. He had a very "don't bull**** me" tone. haha

tricky verizon.... they are catchin on!
if their phones didn't come with so much bloatware i wouldn't feel the need to root.

The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?

son0fthunder said:
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you need to charge your phone

i think you should download that and drop it on xda early for all of us.

I agree,I believe a charge is in order
1.21 giggawatts Thunder™

nrfitchett4 said:
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone dumb enough to return a rooted phone deserves to be denied.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Haha, all warranty-implications aside, that's pretty cool that he could tell you what rom you were running.

Jcase has said before that they can tell, a big give away is you radio/baseband version. Do they care if you're rooted? Probably not unless your stealing services ,in which they are starting to act on and try to eliminate.
I root because I like to tinker with computers, I like the customization and speed that rooting gives us.
No flame please.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App

son0fthunder said:
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi. I just bought a Thunderbolt after having problems with Sprint. I was told the same thing and when I mentioned it in the forum from a thread I posted, I was called a liar, among other things. I was told, as you can see from my post, that they also know every site you visit and whether you are paying for the Mobile Hot Spot. Sorry to hear your story, but glad that it validates what I was told from Sprint.

Schedonnardus said:
i think you need to charge your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a great reply!! Hilarious!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

I do it to get rid of crapware
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Well I'll just jump on over to Sprint if they terminate my contract! The developer support is the reason I have an Android phone. I'm sure the devs could come up with something to block this though.

Honestly... I think terminating contracts over rooted phones would be one of the dumbest moves a cellular company could make.
It takes a certain technical know-how to root a phone, even with "easy root" phones such as the Google Nexus series. These technical people are also the people that are likely to be in positions of IT buying power in major organizations. If one of these people were to loose service over the rooting their personal phone, they may make the case to organizational management to move the organizational fleet of phones away from that carrier. In turn, the termination of one contract leads to the eventual termination of an entire fleet of phones. This "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario prevents the cellular carriers from taking any large scale averse action against rooted phones. Furthermore, these technical people frequently talk to each other through rapid dissemination means (i.e. these forums). This sets up another scenario where the cancellation of one person's service may lead to the loss of many current and future subscribers.
These two factors leads to an environment where rooting is tolerated but not encouraged by the carriers. Carriers do not want to encourage rooting because it allows people to get rid of money making applications (i.e. City ID). However, they can not take averse action against rooted phones as that would launch the "mutually assured destruction" scenario discussed above. Carriers have turned to the method of locking down the phones as much as possible to prevent casual rooting of the devices. However, once a device is rooted, it is out of the carrier's control.

I fell asleep shortly after this thread was posted, I will however post updated pics once phone is charged.

T-Mobile courtesy call...

Anyone else get these?
I just got my first (and hopefully last one). It came up as T-Mobile on the phone caller ID, and really messed me up for what I was doing at the time.
This is the first call that has gone in or out of this phone since I got it, no one has my number and it really threw me off...wasn't expecting it. I was a little pissed that I had to start my memory test over again. Not cool.
I couldn't figure out wtf they wanted, i'm paid up on my next few expected bills already, so I called back on my other phone and that's when I found out it was just a "how do you like our service" call.
Well, I gave them a little bit of an earful explaining how I liked it a lot better before that call came in. That's when I found out I could register with T-Mobile to put T-Mobile on my "do not call" registry - lol, gave me a chuckle.
They said it would take up to 30 days for it to take effect, which is about how long i've had this phone. Anyone else get these calls? Think I could expect another one or more before they get blocked?
( Sorry guys, general is the closest thing to off-topic to ask this senseless question )

Honestly I appreciate that they called cause I got a cheaper rate for my wife and me. Obviously they didn't know you were performing a test on your phone, but I can see how frustrating that can be, especially if you hadn't even given the number out to anyone. And since you've registered on their own do not call list so you should be fine. I got a call about a month ago and they haven't kept calling or anything like that, I think they just went through a wave of calls to everyone. And now that the AT&T merger is less likely, they're probably not as worried about retention.

Okay - I've about had it with T-mobile.
I should be sleeping right now. I work pretty much around the clock, my job is to serve many different clients at all hours of the day and night.
The opportunities I do have to sleep are not many, and necessary. And yet they keep calling me for who knows what reasons.
I pay all my bills ahead of time. There are multiple "do not call this person" messages in my account when it gets pulled up on the computer.
And they still call. Who knows what for this time, but I'm pissed and woe to the T-mo store rep who is gonna get a piece of my mind when I'm awake enough to drive.
I am gonna go talk to sprint reps at the stores I see around in my travels. When I find one who can work with me on buying out my t-mo contract, they're history.
It's not like I haven't repeatedly told them to not call me, add me to do not call lists, and made it known that this is a problem to me. But, my needs are irrelevant to this company, apparently, and they don't care how much they inconvenience me, so why should I give them money?
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using xda premium

Blue6IX said:
Okay - I've about had it with T-mobile.
I should be sleeping right now. I work pretty much around the clock, my job is to serve many different clients at all hours of the day and night.
The opportunities I do have to sleep are not many, and necessary. And yet they keep calling me for who knows what reasons.
I pay all my bills ahead of time. There are multiple "do not call this person" messages in my account when it gets pulled up on the computer.
And they still call. Who knows what for this time, but I'm pissed and woe to the T-mo store rep who is gonna get a piece of my mind when I'm awake enough to drive.
I am gonna go talk to sprint reps at the stores I see around in my travels. When I find one who can work with me on buying out my t-mo contract, they're history.
It's not like I haven't repeatedly told them to not call me, add me to do not call lists, and made it known that this is a problem to me. But, my needs are irrelevant to this company, apparently, and they don't care how much they inconvenience me, so why should I give them money?
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say call and demand to speak with retentions, tell them your problem....and of the previous requests....and demand compensation for their auto dialer calls still

Yea, I was definitely cranky a little while ago.
I got myself together and went to the nearest T-Mo store. I dealt with a rep who helped me to the limit of his clearance/ability, which is all I can ask for from that point of contact.
I was obviously irate and aggravated, but made sure to be as polite as possible and explain my issue as completely as I could. The last time I went through all this I had them put in a notation on my account that I am documenting this harassment so that if it hits the point that I have to switch I will be contesting any attempt at charging an early termination fee, and is something I mention on every audio recorded conversation with them now.
I am really trying to make this work, and making every attempt at being as patient as possible, but the time between when I first posted about this and now there have been a bunch of calls from them I haven't mentioned here. My first posting about this was August 31st, and here I am in the beginning of February STILL having to call customer service and telling them not to call me.
I have incoming calls blocked on my phone number with them, the only people who can get through ARE T-Mobile. There should be multiple notations on my account about not calling me. My account has been in good standing since I started it - always paid in full and on time. Always for more then what's needed so i'm ahead of my bill. I've brought other people into T-Mobile who have switched based on what they've seen me do with this device - and this is documented too through refer a friend.
Given all that, that should make me an ideal customer that they want to keep happy. I can't figure out why they are trying their hardest to make me hate them, but it's working. I don't hesitate to speak good about companies that deserve it - be it through exceptional products, or service, or whatever... and i'm hesitant to speak ill on companies in general unless they do something really bad.
For me to have come back here and dug up this post earlier while I was all groggy and waking up from their intrusion, i'm hitting the point of writing T-Mo off as a loss, as posting all my little problems along the way was a triviality I didn't indulge in.
By the time I do hit retentions, I doubt there's gonna be anything they can do for me to keep me with their service. I'm not gonna ask to be bumped to retentions, they'll send me there if they push me to the point of switching. By that time I will have a very well documented list of grievances with the dates, times and names of all people i've talked to and everything that was supposed to be done.
After 6 months I expect to be able to sleep when I need it (which happens to be during 'normal' business hours) and not be bothered by my carrier, whom i've repeatedly explained to why they shouldn't be calling me at that time. If they're going to make it harder for me to earn the money to pay them for their service, i'll find someone who isn't going to place that burden on my life.
I dunno - sorry for the rant, just needed to vent a bit before calling customer service this time to sort it out again. I just got in from the store, i'm going to relax and take a wander around the woods where I took the pictures in the picture thread and see about doing some more work on that for a bit. It's about the same time of day I took them before. Then i'll come back and call customer service.
I took off for the night tonight, I rarely do so it's no problem, but by the time I got in to work tonight i'd be so wound up I wouldn't be productive. Instead i've got like 30 hours left in a forum project i've been working on for here, so i'll ignore the world and do that with my time instead. I'll feel a lot better channeling all my frustration into the energy to do something positive...see if I can drag something worthwhile out of this.
Edit:
And to be fair here, it's the phone calls that are the source of my aggravation. Signal is great, I get good reception all over the place and the network itself is awesome.
I also have no issues with billing or anything like that, it's just these random calls that are getting to me.

I actually just got a call from them a few minutes ago
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

what exactly do they talk about?

he just asked a few questions like if im satisfied with the service etc
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

I have gotten four of these in the past eight years.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

Never have....been with T mobile for ~10 years
Just my spare change.

This is why Airplane Mode is on your phones.
Delivered via candygram for Mr. Mongo.

The point is he can't turn it on that because he needs to b available for clients, as I read it?
Also he's on the no call list which is why he's upset.
Just my spare change.

No, don't do cellular calls at all. Do do a lot of push mail and data use.
...and now i'm getting text messages from them...at least two so far today. Asking how i like their service, and if i'd refer anyone to T-mobile.
Well, i used too and have - documented with them that i've used their refer a friend for customers in current good standing.
The answer is no, I will no longer be referring anyone to T-Mobile, to the text messages they are sending me. If they could've just left me alone, fine, but now it's my mission to talk people out of T-mobile service, they've irked me to no end.
I spend all this time investing in talking to their customer service and reps trying to get them to stop calling and bothering me, and now they're starting in on the text messaging.
"oh, but it's free" ... but the aggravation on top of my current gripe is not, and something like this just throws fuel on the fire of my frustration.
If I owed them money, or something, fine - but I don't, they have no reason to be pestering me like this, it's as if because I DON'T want them to they are doing it more.
I will be actively soliciting offers from other carriers now, I don't have to put up with this.

That is crazy. I've been with them since Voicestream and not once received a courtesy call lol. Seems to me someone is jerking your chain, not cool.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium

mrbmg said:
That is crazy. I've been with them since Voicestream and not once received a courtesy call lol. Seems to me someone is jerking your chain, not cool.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe Undeads jealous of his rom so he's doing it?
Kidding!
Just my spare change.

I've never got one. I get plenty of calls and texts around bill time if I'm a tad behind. Been with them over 12 years.
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using Tapatalk

You guys COULD just keep up with some of the deals they offer new customers and every time they call, just bytch about them not making you that offer and asking them about free stuff they can make it up to you with. BELIEVE ME, they'll quit calling before you know it. LOL

this app is good for call blocking.
"If you have root, we guarantee that you will not find a more reliable app. Unlike all other call filters, Root Call Blocker silently blocks calls at a system level. You need not even know its working and can choose to be notified only if specific people are blocked. "
https://market.android.com/details?id=fahrbot.apps.rootcallblocker.beta&hl=en

Verizon / Samsung Corporate Contact Log

Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.

So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.

Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.

i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results

chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.

Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.

Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?

Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,

Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!

Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):

File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.

I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.

amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium

I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."

My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3

block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.

I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app

Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,

With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.

skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.

AT&T rep: "Your GS4 is slow because you did not activate it properly."

Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.

It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Funniest post so far today...

Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.

I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..

Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.

atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.

raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.

mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.

No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.

geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people

MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding

geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that people would definitely believe!

S5 Non-Developer-Edition - aka this POS

Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.**Now working**
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."

That's a negative sense. Can you imagine it positively ?
If you see it as positively then developer edition give ours good opportunity.. i believe it..

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're being a bit dramatic...this phone will get some returns being so locked down, but the number of us that care about root is small, less than 3% I would bet. This will be the best selling Android phone of the year for any carrier most likely.
1) Fingerprint scanner can be greatly improved if you scan the sides of your fingers as well.
2) Agreed and explanation would be nice, but on the other hand they could be trying to avoid a lot of people using this and unknowingly eating up all their data allotment. Consumers have come to understand that being on your wifi doesn't use your data, so if they enabled this feature, they would be using their data while on wifi as well, many without understanding. Then lots of people get overages and get upset with the carriers, causing a headache and more bad PR.
3) Agree again, but Google is asking OEM's to do this with KitKat, it's not unique to Samsung.
4) Rooting/ROMing is not even close to being what Android is "ALL ABOUT", but it's a nice perk with most phones.
5) Okay
This phone will likely get root at some point, but who knows for sure. Luckily, there's other great options to pick from as well.

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your forgot the fact the 98% of S5 users don't care about those facts, you are a minority. I am glad you didn't buy an S5 so we don't have to hear you whine about what we already know. Those that bought in know what we are getting into, coming from a former S4 user w/ Root. If we don't get root, that will suck, but I will be just fine, the less I tinker with my phone, the more I enjoy other things in life.
I have a great idea for you, go to TMobile, they will pay your ETF and get your dream phone.

wow... calm it down son...
waiting for root exploit is part of the fun for me... yes, it sucks i can't have root out of the box to restore my apps but samsung made plenty of upgrades that will keep me busy till a root is out... if it ever does.

I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.

I was able to successfully obtain f-off on the Galaxy S5.

jucytec said:
wow... calm it down son...
waiting for root exploit is part of the fun for me... yes, it sucks i can't have root out of the box to restore my apps but samsung made plenty of upgrades that will keep me busy till a root is out... if it ever does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong post

fillyo said:
Then go to the M8 forums, we don't care about your thoughts on the S5 and why you bought the M8. I'm not in there posting why I didn't buy the One. I went to buy the One on launch day but chickened out because the camera sucks and the bezel is huge and it is too tall.
Sent from my SM-G900V using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read my post again monkey. I never said I bought an M8. I said I don't mind waiting for root. M8 is garbage
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

nicholi2789 said:
I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then go to the M8 forums, we don't care about your thoughts on the S5 and why you bought the M8. I'm not in the One forum posting that it is a POS and why I didn't buy the One. I went to buy the One on launch day but chickened out because the camera sucks and the bezel is huge and it is too tall. But that is my choice, I'm not ****ting on everyone else's who bought the One by telling them that in their forums. We know this phone will not be cracked and who cares, works fine as it. I just want root for tether and debloat.
It's funny that you see M8 and Nexus 5 fanboys posting all over the S5 articles everywhere bashing the S5, it's a joke. You must not be happy with your choice. I guess this is what happens to the top dog.
Sent from my SM-G900V using xda app-developers app

Eh, people just need to reinforce their decision to go for prettyness over functionality. But we all cannot be teenage girls. And yes, sometimes the most popular device is actually the best.
I think this whole "rebel against popularity" stems from the battle between iOS and Android. Unfortunately Samsung is being seen as the new Apple in the android environment when clearly the provider, in this case VZW, is the oppressor.
Sent from my shiny new GS5 using XDA Premium.
previous device: Galaxy Nexus

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yes it does allow payments via Paypal, stop being a tool and READ, maybe even Google something....
2. The gentlemen above me gave a great explanation. It just wouldn't make sense in a capped data environment.
3. If Root were obtained, this wouldn't be an issue. 3rd party apps CAN access the card BTW, they just can't write to folders other than their own. You do know the My Files app works, right????
4. No. Providing smartphone users with an OS that has tightly integrated Google services as a means for Google to serve you relevant ads is what ANDROID is all about. You and I and the rest of us who care about customizing are miniscule compared to the BILLION PLUS Android users. Get a clue dude.
5. Stop being a tool, get off the forums, go play around with the phone, maybe even watch a video or two about all the tips and tricks the phone has, and then come back, when you're ready to not sound like a whiny teenager.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------
nicholi2789 said:
I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I doubt most of us have. Apart from it being an old argument that accomplishes NOTHING, it also is pretty naive to buy a phone THINKING that people who VOLUNTEER and work on donations would spend time to find an exploit, as if this is owed or expected. The sense of entitlement for people who believe this is ridiculous.

S5 does have root, does have custom boot loader, and already has roms. It is VERIZON that has your phone locked.
I'm sorry to say it, but I jumped over to T MOBILE and they paid my ETF fee....up to $350...
$50 A month unlimited, instead of $90 or so, plus additional line too. ...
So far I'm happy with the switch though.
Sorry you are having issues with your version.
If I come across anything to help you guys I will post in here for you.
Sent from my rooted 'beaned' SM-G900T using Tapatalk Premium

mexiken said:
1. Yes it does allow payments via Paypal, stop being a tool and READ, maybe even Google something....
2. The gentlemen above me gave a great explanation. It just wouldn't make sense in a capped data environment.
3. If Root were obtained, this wouldn't be an issue. 3rd party apps CAN access the card BTW, they just can't write to folders other than their own. You do know the My Files app works, right????
4. No. Providing smartphone users with an OS that has tightly integrated Google services as a means for Google to serve you relevant ads is what ANDROID is all about. You and I and the rest of us who care about customizing are miniscule compared to the BILLION PLUS Android users. Get a clue dude.
5. Stop being a tool, get off the forums, go play around with the phone, maybe even watch a video or two about all the tips and tricks the phone has, and then come back, when you're ready to not sound like a whiny teenager.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------
No, I doubt most of us have. Apart from it being an old argument that accomplishes NOTHING, it also is pretty naive to buy a phone THINKING that people who VOLUNTEER and work on donations would spend time to find an exploit, as if this is owed or expected. The sense of entitlement for people who believe this is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Follow your own advice, I'll wait.......
2. I wish I was so naive that no explanation, would be considered an explanation.
3. You do know that "My Files" is not a third party app, right????? I understand that most of these issues would be a non-issue with root access, but please oh wise one, explain how this apparent increased root difficulty is peculiarly carrier-specific?
4. No one in the history of the world has ever said "I'm going to get an Android so I can have relevant ads." At least one person has said, "I want to customize the **** out of my phone, therefore, Android."
5. Thank you, I had no idea that there was information about this phone anywhere other than XDA. Perhaps in my quest, I may find this elusive information about the Verizon S5 fingerprint scanner usable with Paypal you speak of.
6. I do NOT feel "entitled" to root. I understand that what you call "volunteering" isn't also about NOT getting paid, which is why I have no problem supporting the awesome efforts of root/recovery/rom/app developers. I DO feel entitled to features advertised to be available in a product, and if/when those features are deliberately disabled, I DO feel entitled to an explanation. Unless you can provide explanations instead of a cult-like defense reserved for Apple Forums, please limit your responses to the tools that may kiss you ass elsewhere.
This is no different than if a car company was to release a model of vehicle with a set of unique features, only to have the dealership remove them, and not bother to tell anyone about it. Then when you realize that those features are missing, and take to a forum (typically) full of enlightened people with explanations and solutions, you instead receive rhetoric like "Stop *****ing about the car not having heated seats(albeit not a unique feature), it has a steering wheel, doesn't it you ungrateful prick?"

em0ney14 said:
S5 does have root, does have custom boot loader, and already has roms. It is VERIZON that has your phone locked.
I'm sorry to say it, but I jumped over to T MOBILE and they paid my ETF fee....up to $350...
$50 A month unlimited, instead of $90 or so, plus additional line too. ...
So far I'm happy with the switch though.
Sorry you are having issues with your version.
If I come across anything to help you guys I will post in here for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.

jpmcnown said:
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same boat. I have piece of mind, that wherever I go I have service with Verizon. Although tmobile has great service where I live in Atlanta, I've also traveled north and south and felt so cheap and angry having a phone with a G and edge icon for data majority of the time. I mean it's 2014 for crying out loud. LOL! Also the fact my family lives in West Virginia where there's no tmobile service and it roams on att at the worst capped speeds. At that point I promise to not let Verizon go because it has a stellar LTE icon at least 90% of the way. Once I get back to Atlanta, I say, well I have great coverage where I live, costs is cheaper, and mainly bootloaders are unlocked with tmobile. Once I travel on the road again it's the same cycle of me back pedaling leaving Verizon because they're hands down the most reliable, I have a 20% discount, and unlimited data. I'm tempted to suspend my service with Verizon and only reconnect when I travel until tmobile gets there coverage wise. Since I've been off contract forever I can suspend my line for at least half the year without being billed. I feel ridiculous going through this as an adult because I like to flash ROMS. Help me? LOL!
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

jpmcnown said:
I was able to successfully obtain f-off on the Galaxy S5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is hands-down the funniest post I've ever read on XDA. I agree, after my Note 3, I'm all done with Samsung devices permanently. They don't care about their customers at all. They've been most unhelpful after I've exhausted every channel of support imaginable looking for a solution. I wish Motorola would make a high-end device again, which I bet they are. Regardless, don't get too excited about the S5 getting unlocked. I've been working with another S4 developer for about 6 months now, and while we've got a great understanding of what's going on, there's not much we can do. We're still working, but don't get this device expecting custom ROMs and kernels. Root is realistic though, and I'd imagine it'll be here soon
Remember that you have 14 days after renewal of contract or purchase of the device to bring it back and tell those red trolls that you can't root this bad boy.

jpmcnown said:
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does the work, selling your unlimited plan? Do you have to lose your phone number as well?
Free storage from Copy:
https://copy.com?r=cScoov

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice of you to share how you really feel about the GS5. Now you should take that to the M8 forums since it will get you a lot more mileage there. Here people just don't care.
I'm very happy with my GS5 and a lot of people are too.
Sounds like you don't even have the phoeu, but came here to troll instead.
Good luck with that.
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

brazcub said:
Nice of you to share how you really feel about the GS5. Now you should take that to the M8 forums since it will get you a lot more mileage there. Here people just don't care.
I'm very happy with my GS5 and a lot of people are too.
Sounds like you don't even have the phoeu, but came here to troll instead.
Good luck with that.
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you got me, I'm pissed about a phone I didn't buy. What part of my diatribe would give any sane person the impression that I don't own the Verizon S5 genius?