Related
This is VERY important information, please read all of it.
LOL I can see I made a mistake by posting this. There's just a bunch of arguing going on and most of you have seemed to disprove s lot of this. I was just relaying the information, maybe I'm too gullible to be here Either way, the information is relevant, but not confirmed by me or anyone, really besides P3droid. I see no reason why he would claim to have this information but just be making stuff up, but who knows. *shrug*
I'm assuming that most of you have seen it by now, but either way, I just felt there was a need to try to get the word out to everyone who might use a custom ROM. Some very disturbing information was brought to light recently by a respected member of the Verizon Droid and Droid X hacking community, known as P3droid. He is a member of Team Black Hat, similar to any development team here. He has made a lot of very important connections as a developer, some within the respective carriers. The information I'm going to share with you mostly pertains to Verizon, but P3droid *specifically* mentions that the implementation is cross-carrier.
My understanding of what's up:
The carriers have been working on an application that runs behind the scenes. The idea behind it is to track what happens on the phone and report back. It can detect unauthorized tethering, root, and custom ROMs. It works by periodically scanning your system partition for modifications, checking to see if your phone's MEID refuses OTA updates, and other unknown methods.
Can't we just remove it?
Sure, but your phone will be flagged by AT&T because the application isn't reporting back. They literally take your phone off of the network and force you to pay the ETF (early termination fee). [brought in to question by the people here, sounds implausible]
What can we do?
Stop tethering for now, I would officially consider it unsafe if you don't want to pay the ETF (maybe) or possibly have your phone flagged by AT&T.
If you want to be on the safe side, revert stock. However, as stated later, this will be very difficult to implement on a GSM network. As of right now, we should be OK, but as I said, better safe than sorry.
If any of your friends have unmodified Captivates, preferably with 2.2 (reverting stock doesn't count), get me a system dump, so I can see if the application in question is there. Directions: Make sure you have the android SDK installed on your computer, you can find it at developer.android.com. Once you have it set up and working, type (for Mac and Linux)
Code:
$ mkdir -p ~/Desktop/app
$ adb pull /system/app ~/Desktop/app
and for Windows,
Code:
cd Desktop
mkdir app
adb pull /system/app "C:\Documents and Settings\[yourusername]\Desktop\app"
Just remember, the Android root community is much bigger than we think. We have some real power. We just need to pull ourselves together and exert it.
What this means for us:
No more root
No more tethering
No more warranty-AT&T will flag your device as bad
Possibly no more connectivity
No more... anything
It is unknown which phones currently have the application preloaded, however it is known that several phones on Verizon have it installed.
Kaik541, a trusted acquaintance of mine pointed out that this would be difficult, if not impossible to implement on a GSM network. It is a very valid point, however I still think that the best plan of action is to proceed with caution.
A quick dialog between P3droid and me:
Have you heard anything about AT&T and unauthorized tethering?
Nothing too specific, just general chatter.
Looks like it's time to stop tethering either way. I'll let all the AT&T guys know, if they don't already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And finally, hit up the source link for more infos.
http://androidheadlines.com/2011/04/will-rooting-your-android-phone-come-to-an-end.html
and
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
For up to date info, follow P3droid on twitter: http://twitter.com/P3droid and me (but mostly P3droid) http://twitter.com/ytt3r.
Reserved as a natural reflex
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
I highly doubt this is a hoax. We seriously need to cover ourselves. This is scary stuff.
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
TheEscapist said:
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily our Rogers Captivates don't do OTA updates! Not yet, anyways.
And Fully agree on the tethering.
We have some very talented people in this community. I, personally, don't know anything about android development. But I do have enough knowledge about development to know that anything can be reversed, tricked, or even stopped. We have the skills, man-power, and will. We'll be okay in the long-run.
I'm not worried.
We need to comb over the TOS and see if they can legally do this.
How would they hide this program?
they can't. I don't think its implemented yet on any gsm phones, but we know for a fact that the leaked gingerbread for droid x has it.
designfears said:
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Canada they have to inform you of changes, from that point you have 30 days to cancel your contract without any penalty, as it is a change of agreement. Not sure if this relates to you US guys and girls,
Also, if they do this, what is to stop you from buying a pay as you go sim card, and using it on your smart phones. The pay as you go plans here in canada have the same options as a contract plan......
So this almost makes no sense....
What a better way to lose a bunch of customers. Doesn't make sense to me either.
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Quickest way to kill off the Android platform would be to limit us to the crap roms the carriers put out. I never even thought of an iPhone until I heard this!
I fail to see how they could legally do this. Not to mention forcing an etf will result in people switching networks. No one would put up with that and stay with them.
If this is true, I wonder how hard it would be to hack the app and just have it send back false information.
cappysw10 said:
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it would be things like side-loading apps or free tethering that they're primarily concerned about.
I wonder if the penalty will only go against giys who get subsidized phones. I buy my phones out right so for that to happen would be off putting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
They can't force a ETF that would be illegal if your not violating your contract i.e. tethering.
I have never tethered at all and would gladly cancel my att contract with paying the etf if this happened. IF ATT wont let me use my phone as I want as long as I am not stealing service I will take my service to a carrier that will END OF STORY.
Does this mean the Communities are a lot larger than we think? I originally thought that we were a small marketplace, and didn't have a major impact on things.
So if the Carriers and manufacturers are investing this kind of time, money and effort into stopping the modifications, We must be causing havoc.......
Still doesn't make sense............
Lucke said:
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the linked threads.......They say Google is helping them.
http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/06/6419016-google-tightens-reins-on-android-
It looks like Google is thinking of locking down also. It would protect us from Carrier modding woes, but what's gonna start happening when they decide not to release source codes....
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
Found this on front page.
STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!
wimmy wham wham wazzle!
completed.
I hope this does something.
Yeah, I think I will just drop this off here and LOL for a while. XDA should do its homework.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...-does-not-violate-fcc-block-c-spectrum-rules/
Read all this article before you file anything.....
Edit: post above beat me good show chap.
If I helped you in any way please use the thank you button
voxigenboy said:
wimmy wham wham wazzle!
completed.
I hope this does something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it does, I might actually switch to big red. Give me unlimited data!
Filing a petition right nao. My rights will not be infringed upon!!1!
Adrynalyne you don't even understand.... Obviously the XDA post is 100% accurate or they never would've posted it on such a respectable site.
adrynalyne said:
Yeah, I think I will just drop this off here and LOL for a while. XDA should do its homework.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...-does-not-violate-fcc-block-c-spectrum-rules/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jolly good show chap!... ;(
this bloody verizon mumbo jumbo really brasses me off! its a load of bullocks if you ask me.
the kid escobar said:
Filing a petition right nao. My rights will not be infringed upon!!1!
Adrynalyne you don't even understand.... Obviously the XDA post is 100% accurate or they never would've posted it on such a respectable site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess you don't read fine print, Verizon sued FCC then withdrew for unknown reasons,then a clause was found that stated a carrier can do what ever it wishes.
If I helped you in any way please use the thank you button
Grnlantern79 said:
Guess you don't read fine print, Verizon sued FCC then withdrew for unknown reasons,then a clause was found that stated a carrier can do what ever it wishes.
If I helped you in any way please use the thank you button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To the link to the android police website that is supposedly contradicting the article I posted,
It does NOT contradict for two reasons:
1)The arguments made in favor of what is "reasonable" for Verizon do not include the actions themselves, only the standards they use. The actions they take according to those standards,(e.g. locking bootloaders)are notr easonable by the same definition. That is, 4 out of 4 carriers use the same standards as Verizon. But not all four carriers lock bootloaders.
2)The issue of Verizon's double-standard concerning bootloaders is entirely ignored. Verizon says they lock bootloaders because it's a threat to network securityand management. However, they do not require the bootloaders locked on all their devices. Samsung's bootloaders are unlocked, including on phones like the Galaxy Nexus. (Remember? The Galaxy Nexus on Verizon was the whole reason we asked about the Droid RAZR's bootloaders in the first place.) So why the double-standard for HTC, Motorola, LG, etc.?
Until THOSE questions are satisfied, there is no error.
Good luck with your complaint then. I'm sure it will go as far as the circular filing cabinet.
But
But we do have a security breach on a locked bootloader. They can duplicate the phone. And still no solutions just denial from Verizon
all I know is, with all the red tape, Verizon is going to continue and get away with their double-standard until they are taken to court and lose.
Wish I would have found this thread before I filed my complaint lol. Oh well here's hoping it leads to something.
im just confused why its only thunderbolt and not other LTE phones?
and please someone dont tell me to read the articles i did, it just talks about the laws/rules/ supposed violations
Pithism said:
im just confused why its only thunderbolt and not other LTE phones?
and please someone dont tell me to read the articles i did, it just talks about the laws/rules/ supposed violations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's a definite answer as to why the Thunderbolt was the only one locked. but I could guess.
Considering that the Thunderbolt was Verizon's flagship LTE phone, they assumed it would sell well and probably had the same mentality they do now with the RAZR.
well, i think its the only phone that can be on the phone and surf the web on 3g.... any phone with a 4g connection can do that. also, without more people taking this seriously, this wont go far. for those thinking this is a joke, there are always 2 sides of the story. pros and cons can make a difference in the balance. obviously, the rules state they can do what they want within the boundaries...double standards for phones can create an issue with a defense for phone security...also, for those thinking we can have unlimited data....it doesnt state that, if u read the second article that was linked in the first article, they can charge what they want for any amount of data....they just arent suppose to throttle u, deny or limit. u can go over ur data usage, but u just get charged for it...so theres no limit there.... thats my understanding of it though....feel free to correct me
voxigenboy said:
I don't think there's a definite answer as to why the Thunderbolt was the only one locked. but I could guess.
Considering that the Thunderbolt was Verizon's flagship LTE phone, they assumed it would sell well and probably had the same mentality they do now with the RAZR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you don't the see the Bionic as locked?
Interesting.
Verizon is smart lock the boot loaders on the most popular phones load some bloatware on them which they sell space as a nice cost which keep 98% of users from deleted since they won't root. As long as the developer of the phone like HTC leaves a backdoor open we the 2% should always been quite happy. Moto just goes that extra step to completely lock it down.
If I helped you in any way please use the thank you button
well gents, I finally got a call from the executive offices of verizon wireless tonight in regards to my complaint with the fcc. all they specified was that they were looking in to the "matter" and for me to call back if I have any questions.
voxigenboy said:
well gents, I finally got a call from the executive offices of verizon wireless tonight in regards to my complaint with the fcc. all they specified was that they were looking in to the "matter" and for me to call back if I have any questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too just now something about 14 days
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Wasn't sure if anyone would find this interesting or even if this is where it needs to be posted... I think it's a good step for consumers!
http://www.cfoworld.com/technology/26143/carrier-iq-drops-legal-threat-against-security-researcher
Might want to check this out too
http://androidsecuritytest.com/features/logs-and-services/loggers/carrieriq/
ALL OTHER THREADS WITH SAME TOPIC WILL BE CLOSED, THANKS FOR YOUR COOPERATION
I read that CIQ is just a subcontractor and that Google is behind this? Anyone have a source on that or more information?
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/android-news-rumors/10232-verizon-no-carrieriq-our-phones.html
Senate Step In
It's about time
http://gizmodo.com/5864218/carrieriq-gets-hit-with-senate-investigation
I hope this company goes down the pan. Unbelievable they got away with it for so long.
Sent from my Nexus S on CM9, Morfic's SEUV Kernel and some help from Tapatalk!
do our rooted/CFW phones have this?
Its messed up i agree that why has this company is still around. the government or someone is letting this go on. and yes a very good question does our rooted phones have this?
Pretty scary stuff tbh. Hope people get to the bottom of this soon
East2West said:
I'm honestly not that surprised. With all the bloatware that carriers are putting on our phones these days, I had been wondering if they had software like this in the background at their disposal. Yet another reason to switch to an AOSP rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I normally only use a stock ROM for a few days anyway. Feel bad for the people who don't root and don't have a clue about it. Call me a conspiracy nut but I believe we are spyed on all the time anyway. I feel even more sorry for our kids because when they grow up, I believe surveillance will be everywhere.
Sent from my Nexus S on CM9, Morfic's SEUV Kernel and some help from Tapatalk!
benrees21 said:
Yep, I normally only use a stock ROM for a few days anyway. Feel bad for the people who don't root and don't have a clue about it. Call me a conspiracy nut but I believe we are spyed on all the time anyway. I feel even more sorry for our kids because when they grow up, I believe surveillance will be everywhere.
Sent from my Nexus S on CM9, Morfic's SEUV Kernel and some help from Tapatalk!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1 I believe it too
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Just learned of this today. The story was featured on the local news, of all things! http://www.newschannel6now.com/stor...lions-of-phones-secretly-records-all-activity
I just bought a Samsung Captivate Glide, and this really does not help my comfort factor after reading through all of the terms and conditions agreements I had to go through just to get to use some programs. (yes, I did read them)
Phone seems to be too new to get rooted yet...maybe I'll go back to a dumb phone.
Yeah I think this company is f'd I've done a little bit of research and apparantly they are inviolation of some international treaties. Far as I know AOSP Roms don't have any of the carrierIQ crap because I asked that same question on another thread.
Sent from my Incredibly awesome Droid Incredible.
Well here is my experience with Sprint. I called customer support to find out how to remove this and the first woman I spoke to was incredibly rude and did not help at all. She would not even send me a printed copy of my contract, but instead referred me to a generic copy of the contract on the website - not even found in my account but under the plan. When she asked if she resolved my issues, I obviously said absolutely NOT. I was then forwarded to customer relations to find out why she didn't help me - this women was no better. She told me there is no way to opt-out unless I root my phone which would indeed void my manufactors warranty as well as my Insurance which I pay $8 x 2 ($16) a month for.
She did however tell me that there is an application on the market to remove CIQ called "Logging Test" which costs $1. It requires root access however, so we were back to square one. She told me that if I root my phone and anything happened I could accidently drop it in the toilet and they would still replace it since it wouldn't power on, they wouldn't know I rooted it. Little does she know, that application is for HTC Devices ONLY and not the Epic 4G Touch, in fact, if you attempt to use it on the Epic 4G Touch it will indeed (soft) BRICK your phone. WOW! Thanks Sprint, instead of giving me a simple opt-out to illegal wiretapping, you'd prefer that I root my phone, void my warranty, pay for an application to remove CIQ which will indeed (soft) BRICK my phone. What. The. Hell.
She then transferred me to another person, this time a technical support guy higher up I'm assuming. He gave me the same statement that Sprint released a few weeks ago about how they do not collect personal information and that "I need to do my research". The conversation with him went from bad to pretty decent actually when I explained to him what CIQ is, that they can log information on phones that are deactivated or on Wi-Fi networks, that it logs every single keystroak made and that is basically a rootkit. That the U.S. Senate has already sent them a letter demanding to know what information they collect, that a class action lawsuit is coming, which specific carriers have it on their phones and which don't and video proof of the CIQ App logging every bit of information on the phone (including hitting the home key, back key, dialing a number, sending a text and displaying https (secure) logins in PLAIN TEXT.
By the end of the conversation I had woken him up to what CIQ was and proven that I had done my research. He ended up being very nice and interested once he realised that the e-mail he got from Sprint HQ to tell customers was utter bull****. However, the fact of the matter is, they have no way at customer or technical support to help you opt-out - the only way to get it off your phones at the moment is to root your phone and install a custom version (ROM) of Android that does not have CIQ pre-packaged. Any other methods to remove it will be unsucessful and could brick your phone. If you root your phone or install a custom version of Android you have voided your warranty and if you pay insurance, too bad, it voids that too.
Best of luck to everyone who is stuck in a contract with Sprint. I just signed up 4-5 days ago so I still have a chance to cancel my contract and head on over to Verizon who does not install CIQ on their phones (see their statements in the news today).
Well your wrong about Verizon too. They do have CIQ apps. Recently I flashed a sense Rom to my Incredible to give it a whirl and I did log test app on it and it found them so I went back to CM7.
Sent from my Incredibly awesome Droid Incredible.
dirtsky said:
Well your wrong about Verizon too. They do have CIQ apps. Recently I flashed a sense Rom to my Incredible to give it a whirl and I did log test app on it and it found them so I went back to CM7.
Sent from my Incredibly awesome Droid Incredible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this was a stock ROM from Verizon?
I can't say for sure if they do or don't, I'm just going off the statement that they released today stating that they are sympathetic to consumers who have it installed on their phones and that they do "not have Carrier iQ installed on ANY Verizon phones".
To Gigaom, a Verizon Wireless spokesperson denied any connection with Carrier IQ: “Any report that Verizon Wireless uses Carrier IQ is patently false.”
dbaybay said:
Are you sure this was a stock ROM from Verizon?
I can't say for sure if they do or don't, I'm just going off the statement that they released today stating that they are sympathetic to consumers who have it installed on their phones and that they do "not have Carrier iQ installed on ANY Verizon phones".
To Gigaom, a Verizon Wireless spokesperson denied any connection with Carrier IQ: “Any report that Verizon Wireless uses Carrier IQ is patently false.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Dad has the Rezound on Verizon and I checked it front to back....NO CIQ installed (He's stock)
Pipsqueak approved this message
Privacy and security issues aside, who told the carriers they could use the airtime we purchased for their utilities?
I'm new to this and I bought the 200mb plan. I've got a data monitor and don't need more than 200mb by using wifi. However for every 15mb or so I used I'd be about 4mb off what the AT&T website posted.
Could this application be using that much of MY paid bandwidth without my permission?
Just an FYI... Carrier IQ just published a new press release.
dbaybay said:
Are you sure this was a stock ROM from Verizon?
I can't say for sure if they do or don't, I'm just going off the statement that they released today stating that they are sympathetic to consumers who have it installed on their phones and that they do "not have Carrier iQ installed on ANY Verizon phones".
To Gigaom, a Verizon Wireless spokesperson denied any connection with Carrier IQ: “Any report that Verizon Wireless uses Carrier IQ is patently false.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the time I checked I was trying out Ice Cream Sense 1.2 for Droid Incredible. I asked the Rom developer about the CIQ apps but he said it shouldn't.
Sent from my Incredibly awesome Droid Incredible.
users won’t have to worry about keystroke recording– the only data used is not private data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how do they sort between your data and private data? lies... my usage phone stats alone is a attack of privacy.
One question left unaddressed belongs to AT&T and Sprint. Both companies admitted that the software was present on their devices, but neither clarified whether or not users were charged for the data used when Carrier iQ software uploads analytical information to their servers. Users shouldn’t be forced to pay for data that was not used by themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still busted.. and it still does it anonymously without your consent.
Carrier IQ = Busted
AT&T = Deep ****e
Sprint = now be Crawl
Seriously.. 14 DEC is Drop the Carrier IQ day.
spoke to supervisor at att and said 4.3 is att and is n testin and will b released this week comin up about 500 to 600 mb download so get ready .ps those will get notified thru text for upgrade and others will get it the next day so there wont b no errors n the download and no overloadin the system yadaya...and more bloatware aswell from att but hey we get wat we pay for so get ure phone prepared and clean it good so u wont miss any files or uno
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
If there is going to be an update, we all should be prepared to see its affects on rooting and recoveries, I don't want another MF3 nightmare- again.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 (SGH-i337) via Tapatalk 4
I will not trust too much AT&T guys! From my experience they are not too many people knowing when the update will be release. Well lets keep the hopes up and freeze the update to not lose the root!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
The Canadians haven't received it yet (though it is slated for October) and you expect people to believe AT&T will be releasing it this week? I guess it could happen, but I've yet to see any convincing evidence. Anyone working at AT&T should not be considered a good source for anything. Regardless, don't touch it until it is checked out by those that know what they are doing. Of course, the same "challenged" people that screwed up with MF3 (and continue to do so) will do the same with 4.3 no matter what kind of warnings people post. Some people just don't know how to read and never learn from their mistakes.
scott14719 said:
The Canadians haven't received it yet (though it is slated for October) and you expect people to believe AT&T will be releasing it this week? I guess it could happen, but I've yet to see any convincing evidence. Anyone working at AT&T should not be considered a good source for anything. Regardless, don't touch it until it is checked out by those that know what they are doing. Of course, the same "challenged" people that screwed up with MF3 (and continue to do so) will do the same with 4.3 no matter what kind of warnings people post. Some people just don't know how to read and never learn from their mistakes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well my phone auto updated, so not everyone who upgraded to MF3 did it on their own, it just happened with mine, now I know to freeze those processes with titanium backup
Kingo root might still work for it. It worked for mf3 baseband with one-click root.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
It'll be locked down tighter than mf3. Each new version will patch the previous versions vulnerabilities.
ACardAttack said:
Well my phone auto updated, so not everyone who upgraded to MF3 did it on their own, it just happened with mine, now I know to freeze those processes with titanium backup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was posted several times well before MF3 was ever released:
A. Do not take the MF3 update until it was checked out (unless you don't care about modding).
and
B. A couple of ways to prevent the update, automatic or not.
It was then reported / posted several times directly after MF3 started pushing (within 1 day) that it would auto-update and exact instructions were provided on how to keep it from doing so.
There are no excuses, just lack of reading.
Like I said, if you don't care about changing or modding your phone than it doesn't matter, but if you are here at XDA in the first place, it means you DO want to do things to your phone and therefore, there is no excuse for not knowing about the updates, what to do or not to do with them, and how to prevent them if needed. The only reason for this is not reading.
Personally, I don't care. I know what to do for my phone because I search, learn, and read. However, the dozens and dozens of people that come running here crying for help when they should have helped themselves is annoying. It's sad when people take the time to provide information in an informative and easily understandable way and others just ignore it and then want to blame others because they did so. And that is exactly what happens...again, no excuses.
If people would read THIS, I am telling them NOT to update before the update is checked out to see what it changes and effects. The thread title is, "OFFICIAL 4.3 UPDATE AT&T I337". That is all the information that is needed for a search here at XDA, on Google, or even a simple visual search. If anyone puts ANY minimal effort into it, they can see what I have posted here. But, that is the problem, people are too lazy and to entitled to do anything on their own to take responsibility for what they do to their phones. They would rather call the people that follow XDA rules and take responsibility for what they do names like "****" or "Condescending" when it is pointed out to them where to learn about what they want to do and what they should have done to begin with.
So, here it is if you want to ever MOD your phone again in any way:
DO NOT TAKE THE AT&T 4.3 UPDATE (OR ANY OTHER UPDATES) OR ALLOW YOUR PHONE TO AUTO-UPDATE UNTIL THE DEVS AT XDA HAVE A CHANCE TO CHECK THE UPDATE OUT TO SEE WHAT IT CHANGES!
If you do, it is your own damn fault...take responsibility for it!
jd1639 said:
It'll be locked down tighter than mf3. Each new version will patch the previous versions vulnerabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh... so true. That's why I will never outright buy a phone from AT&T again.
Will be getting a GPE phone if I go with another Galaxy.
To keep it on topic, I'm with the others on this, I don't put my faith in employees at AT&T. Sure it's possible the update could drop this week... but either way I won't be updating any time soon.
scott14719 said:
It was posted several times well before MF3 was ever released:
There are no excuses, just lack of reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No excuses you know, unless you don't frequent forums like this and it just happened....
ACardAttack said:
No excuses you know, unless you don't frequent forums like this and it just happened....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
scott14719 said:
Like I said, if you don't care about changing or modding your phone than it doesn't matter, but if you are here at XDA in the first place, it means you DO want to do things to your phone and therefore, there is no excuse for not knowing about the updates, what to do or not to do with them, and how to prevent them if needed. The only reason for this is not reading.
...take responsibility for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..
scott14719 said:
..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I come here once and awhile, not in my wildest dreams did I expect a forced over the air update to come, even apple doesn't pull that...so people who like to have a rooted phone does not mean they frequent this site often
ACardAttack said:
I come here once and awhile, not in my wildest dreams did I expect a forced over the air update to come, even apple doesn't pull that...so people who like to have a rooted phone does not mean they frequent this site often
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that it is a crappy tactic from AT&T, but the fact that your phone updated is completely your fault. The XDA rules state, "To search before you post". That is the first thing you should do when coming here for any information. The second thing is to read the "pinned" threads in the General and Q & A sections. It doesn't matter if you come here for something once or 100 times, it is still your responsibility to do so. What happens to your phone is ONLY your responsibility. Some things can not be fixed, changed, or controlled. The phone updating is not one of those things. Your phone auto- updated because you did not learn about it being able to do so. If you signed any paperwork with AT&T I guarantee you signed a waver that said they can and will modify your software at any time with or without any further consent. It's your fault if you didn't read it.
There are plenty of people around here that were born with the same knowledge about phones, and Android, and Modding that you and I were born with. But those people (and myself) took the time to learn about their phones and took responsibility for what they wanted to do to their phones. They didn't come to XDA, ignore all of the rules, and make a user account just to ask a question about something they did wrong to start with. Instead, they came here, read the rules, agreed to them, made a user account, and proceeded to search, read, and learn about their device. Many of them then went on to start modifying and developing so others could benefit from their time and actions. Not everyone achieves that level of knowledge but everyone IS expected to follow the rules, search, read, and learn. In other words, like I said, there are no excuses. Everything involving what has or will happen to your phone is your (and only your) responsibility. Just like it is for everyone else and their phone.
one of the first things I do after rooting a device is to freeze all the bloat AND any ota or updates. when an update starts to come , immediately hit airplane mode and don't disable it until figuring out how to kill the update.
don't play the modding game without fully understanding what you're doing.
Russ77 said:
one of the first things I do after rooting a device is to freeze all the bloat AND any ota or updates. when an update starts to come , immediately hit airplane mode and don't disable it until figuring out how to kill the update.
don't play the modding game without fully understanding what you're doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the MF3 update.. It seems the 3 Required apps to freeze the OTA are not all there. 1 Of them has a different name under my phone. It seems to be now listed as AllShare Cast Dongle S/W. Can someone confirm that this is indeed the third piece of the puzzle to freeze updates? Has this any affect to AllShare feature?
I tried searching around, but everything seems to point to only blocking the update prior to MF3. Nothing notes the new changes. And I guess is there any real point in stopping the next update? Seeing as LOKI is the only real(no limitations) solution to the bootloader lock?
Is there anyone working on the bootloader for MF3?
Thanks!
scott14719 said:
I agree that it is a crappy tactic from AT&T, but the fact that your phone updated is completely your fault. The XDA rules state, "To search before you post". That is the first thing you should do when coming here for any information. The second thing is to read the "pinned" threads in the General and Q & A sections. It doesn't matter if you come here for something once or 100 times, it is still your responsibility to do so. What happens to your phone is ONLY your responsibility. Some things can not be fixed, changed, or controlled. The phone updating is not one of those things. Your phone auto- updated because you did not learn about it being able to do so. If you signed any paperwork with AT&T I guarantee you signed a waver that said they can and will modify your software at any time with or without any further consent. It's your fault if you didn't read it.
There are plenty of people around here that were born with the same knowledge about phones, and Android, and Modding that you and I were born with. But those people (and myself) took the time to learn about their phones and took responsibility for what they wanted to do to their phones. They didn't come to XDA, ignore all of the rules, and make a user account just to ask a question about something they did wrong to start with. Instead, they came here, read the rules, agreed to them, made a user account, and proceeded to search, read, and learn about their device. Many of them then went on to start modifying and developing so others could benefit from their time and actions. Not everyone achieves that level of knowledge but everyone IS expected to follow the rules, search, read, and learn. In other words, like I said, there are no excuses. Everything involving what has or will happen to your phone is your (and only your) responsibility. Just like it is for everyone else and their phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree it is the users fault. Mine did the same thing. By the time I left the store mine was already updating on its own. It's not like you can root while you are at the store. I have rooted every Android I have owned but never had a device update on its own until this S4.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk now Free
jdog_12345 said:
I disagree it is the users fault. Mine did the same thing. By the time I left the store mine was already updating on its own. It's not like you can root while you are at the store. I have rooted every Android I have owned but never had a device update on its own until this S4.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk now Free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's difficult to predict a phone updating before you leave the store you bought it at. That is probably one of the few excuses that would be legitimate. It's still your responsibility to research the phone before you buy to see what it might or might not do, but even then it's difficult to do anything about it that quickly. It was posted several times to not put the sim card into the phone before you could take steps to prevent the update but sometimes it's just not possible. Blaming it on "other" phones you have had not auto-updating is just an excuse. This isn't those other phones and it is / was still your responsibility to research and learn about THIS phone before you took ownership. It is simply no one else's fault that you didn't read and learn. You might feel like you didn't need to or shouldn't have to but that doesn't change the fact that the information was out there, you just didn't seek it. However, like I said, even if you would have, it still might have been difficult to stop it in your particular situation.
Most people (99.9%) of people that throw around excuses are solely to blame for the phone updating (or anything else that happens to it). It is completely their responsibility, they just want to blame someone or something else. Using, "I didn't know" or ,"Who would expect the phone to do that", as an excuse when as much information exists about it as does, is just an attempt at not taking responsibility. Some people take responsibility for their actions and have no trouble stepping up and admitting something happened because of their actions or lack there-of. Others, always want to blame someone else.
If anyone is keeping score I am one of the (apparently rare) folks who reads this forum but has no intention of rooting or modding or hacking etc my phone.
But thanks to this forum I learned which of the att and Samsung apps I could safely disable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
scott14719 said:
Most people (99.9%) of people that throw around excuses are solely to blame for the phone updating (or anything else that happens to it). It is completely their responsibility, they just want to blame someone or something else. Using, "I didn't know" or ,"Who would expect the phone to do that", as an excuse when as much information exists about it as does, is just an attempt at not taking responsibility. Some people take responsibility for their actions and have no trouble stepping up and admitting something happened because of their actions or lack there-of. Others, always want to blame someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not like an iphone where you have to tell it to update, it just happened, I had an iphone for 4 years, never once did I update until there was a jailbreak and I know I can't be the only one, I rooted, tried a few custom roms, didnt like them and never came back to this site until my phone updated itself. So I'd just get off your high horse because well putting down people to make one feel better isn't a great trait to have.
There will be NO 4.3 update for ATT before the INTL peeps get it, I am telling you now, att will not have one till way after the 1st of the year....
That ATT rep is full of .....need I say more...
Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark
I really should say I'm surprised but in reality I'm not. Your right when you say they don't care because I've experienced it for myself and with my gf over the phone and my mom for that matter. The sad part is they are getting way too big for even themselves and like most companies don't have very good customer service. I'm unlocked as well and have never had issues with voice calls on this phone, only my first phone with a weird rom. It's not there business to ask you if you've installed a custom rom or not. I wouldn't even of answered the question myself.
Personally i would dump verizon if they treated me like that. I was in the store yesterday with my gf and she is a looooong time VZW customer. I'm taking 14 plus years and she went to best buy to get a phone because VZW doesn't know how to take care of customers at all.
It's a sad trend but the bigger the company the worse the customer service is
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
mrbonine said:
Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
ShapesBlue said:
Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
ShapesBlue said:
Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
XdrummerXboy said:
Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear that. I have mine until June next year. Not quite sure what I'm doing just yet. The Super power saving mode is quite a nice feature. It basically disables all apps but the essential ones. The battery life then goes way over a day plus on the S5
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Et tu Verizon
Thanks for the info. I did have the MyVerizon app installed, I believe. I don't remember it requesting root, but I sometimes click through those things without paying too much attention (since I'm fairly careful about what goes on the phone); the reason I install software requiring root is to access it (circular, I know) so, they are doing what they must to run. I appreciate the suggestions about other call centers, etc. I do have the contact information from the single most helpful and polite (funny how that goes together) person I talked to through this debacle. I'll drop him a quick note, but really, since they never even bothered to call back, it's clear to me that they want me to leave. Paying over $200 per month to be treated like crap is not something I could ever do. They are big, very profitable, and don't care about anything but extracting cash from people under contract, or too complacent to leave (I'm in the 2nd category until now). Being in a codependent relationship with Verizon is not only self-defeating, but irrational. Until we have some politicians owned by the people instead of corporations we have no chance of reigning these folks in. Sure, they employ lot's of people, but an army of good people working against the best interest of everyone is not good, it's an uncontrollable menace: just look at the banks that gambled with people's homes, lost their bets, then collateralized them when the bottom fell out of their own septic tank of greed. The entire world economy hit an air pocket, but we're still letting the same greed intoxicated pilots fly. My only regret is believing their lies as long as I did. I deserve better, and it's won't be particularly hard to find it. Since the 4.4.3 G3 (nor the 4.1.2 for that matter) are particularly compatible with the GSM carriers, and Samsung is the lookout for the felonious Verizon, I'll probably get a Nexus 5. I think the G5 is better for several reasons, but that's too bad. All of the tech and marketing in the world will not make me "grateful" to manufacturers or carriers that somehow feel controlling how you use the equipment you buy from them is somehow acceptable. The money Verizon cares about is the corporate contracts, since they can manage that process much better, the revenue is less volatile, and they don't have to take calls from subscribers, wasting the money that could be spent on acquisitions, and expanding their market oligarchy. Public utilities create natural monopolies. There are not 2 sets of power lines, or water lines, or sewers running into your home. And the idea that competition from fiber will for improvements from Comcast is false, prices may move, but service will not get better. Only when barriers of entry are low can new competitors help drive down the price of entrenched utilities. We could all create our own mobile system on meshes of unlicensed 5.0 Gig or other spectrum, but it would be very costly to do that and linking this metropolitan radio webs would be tricky. But probably, someone is already working on that. Ask a HAM radio enthusiast about how they handle phone calls over shortwave. They have licenses, yes, but the technology to connect 2-way voice wireless signals to PSTN phone calls has been around for many years. Big corporations exact huge profits and drag down anyone that needs the services, the trick is to find creative ways around them, most importantly by thinking outside of the feature/function cage they've placed around us. Soon, you'll be able to buy just the cable channels you want, perhaps. I have hundreds and I generally watch less than 10.
The accusation flung at me by the enraged employee is little more that hot air. It reflects a corporate culture of mendacity and blame. My fault was to allow him to take control of the conversation, for a millisecond. Whatever I've done to the software on the phone (which, as you noted, was not a ROM change) it's still my phone and not theirs. They don't even provide the "insurance" to replace the failed device, a third party does. I didn't stop my phone from working to get a new phone. Had the replacement worked as well or better as the one it replaced I would have been happy. Now, I'm going over a week with no phone and they will never get paid for that week. The longer it takes to resolve, the less on my final bill, which will be coming up soon. When folks have experiences like this it's best to communicate the problem to the FCC (as if they cared) and their state PUC. Not that they will do anything about it, but it's important to remember they have a duty to regulate whether this group of appointees cares or not. The only thing that affects Verizon is withdrawing my monthly gratuity and when that happens because of abuse, manipulation, and possible fraud, the regulators need to be informed, if only so they can't say they didn't know.
Thanks for the reminder that they have no business asking questions about rooted phones or ROMS. That lingering guilt that one may have done something Daddy Verizon doesn't approve of is there, for sure, but since what I was accused of I didn't do, it was easier to just say, no, I didn't do that.....when I offered to factory reset TWICE during the call and he pretended not to hear me I realized it was all just a manipulative game played by a bully. No, no lunch money for you today, dude. I think they actually hire volatile people and use them as scarecrows. If Verizon didn't want their customers to be exposed to abuse, they'd fire these guys. The second guy was so cold, trying to do the right thing, but hating it. If you've ever been to a time-share presentation and not purchased one, you are familiar with this game. It's not only wrong, but it reflects how truly manipulative and immoral the employers are, they are paying the guy to be insulting, intimidating, and thuggish. So many large companies act this way, it's amazing we let them get away with it. The only way to stop it is to stop paying them and tell them why. I worked in a small hardware store in a small town 30+ years ago. Even when customers were trying some trick, like returning something they didn't buy from us, or a more elaborate ruse (I'll bring the old stuff back tomorrow......), I just explained how it worked and enforced the process; I never shouted, "You are so busted...." These were customers, some making honest errors, some trying to take advantage, but there were none I didn't want to come back again, because it would be bad for business and likely make an enemy. After I leave Verizon I will never give them another dime ever, and I think they honestly don't believe that.
XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
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