Database Info

Possible PSP-esque war between Google/Tmobile and hackers?

What does everyone think will happen with future revisions of Android in regards to the fork between the stock G1s with OTA updates and the hacked G1s with manual updates with the test keys?
Hopefully this doesn't turn into Sony's militant locking down of the PSP via every firmware upgrade. Even though I never owned a PSP, I thought it was absolutely insane that Sony would try so hard to keep people from using their purchased equipment in any way they wanted to.
I totally understand that Google had to release RC30 to shut down a GIGANTIC security exploit that could have (but not likely) been used compromise phones. I'm sure it's in their interest to keep a homogeneous G1 userbase but would they actively try to relock rooted phones?
I'm hoping they just leave the rooted G1s alone. Mostly because we bought the phones and they are OURS. We are obligated to stay with Tmobile until the contract is up because the price is subsidized but we are not obligated (in my opinion) to retain the software they were shipped with. Obviously if my phone has a software problem I won't be calling Tmobile. On the other hand, if there is a hardware defect I'm certainly reflashing RC30 and sending it back under warranty.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. I think it was great that Tmobile UK was good enough to open a dialog about possibly allowing root access but I don't think they really understand what "root access" is or care as long as they sell phones under contract. I don't think Google really cares either since they have open sourced all of the OS that we are modifying which is in the spirit of Open Source Software anyway. I think as long as they get their marketshare, they will be happy.

I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers...next i dont thnk that google would do this but t-moble might.But in my opinion i think they will as soon as they start hacking the pay apps. that will start later this year.

HOGWILD said:
I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers
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Hogwild hit the nail right on the head. I don't think T-Mo/HTC will engage in a drawn out battle to "steal" back root simply because there is no real financial motivation to do so. I'm of the mind that it's best not to begin speculating unless one of the aforementioned company takes a step in that direction. There's no point whipping up another possible flame-war over something that might never happen.

Ya I agree they are our phones 1 thing you left out not everybody is under contract some ppl paid full price on a prepaid 90 service plan then they get their unlock code. Some people didn't qualify for the upgrade price of 179$ and some people are under contract eiither of all three it is owned by the user the day they signed or paid. Tmobile won't take back a used g1 for failure to honor the 2 year agreement they will bill the customer.
So the whole open source push... and market. There and hundreds of. Thousands of programmers who make programs for the love of advancing "things" look how popular sourceforge is. So you get people who will create a program and demand a nominal fee say 14.95 the dev only gets 70% of the price and the wireless carrier get 30% for nothing. I . Defently there being an underground "market place" that bypasses that standard one to allow people to download free apps. The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
My 2 cents

diabolical28 said:
The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
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There are a lot of idiots in the world with money to waste. Rest assured, the paid apps will have retarded comments as well.

qft
rabble:rabble

Wow I hate people that don't know what they talking bout. I wanna clear up a few thing. Being a psp dev I can tell you it wasn't bout the hacking and homebrew. the psp updates were to stop piracy. Btw most exploit on psp were by sony. If you own a psp atlease you would know a little about the scene. Secondly, the root bug is dangerous to us. Google own dev are helping us htc people are leaking tools and t-mobile always let us screw them over. So no it not gonna be no war going on it all for our safety untill the software is right. As you can see we're like test bunnys and when a bug you should be greatful that they release update. So while I love having root access it not that serious right now it just would be right to compare this to the iphone jailbreak scene. Once paid app are here I wouldn't be shock if update start coming to block test key and resigning to respect developer work. Read before posting and short answer no unless as needed

There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.

danguyf said:
There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.
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Correct. And you can bet that there will be handsets running builds of Android not maintained by Google which will not run Android Market. Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves. I'm concerned that that fracturing of the ecosystem will impede overall market acceptance. And i'm not even talking about the inevitable outcome of Android "strains" that slowly become sdk incompatible with each other.
Here's a posting I made on android-platform and Dianne Hackborn's response:
Right, I'm thinking along the device manufacturer side of things. As
an imperfect analogy, is the Android team okay with manufacturers
producing their own Android builds which may be slightly incompatible
with each other (a la Symbian's various flavors), or will all
manufacturers be encouraged/required to adhere to some technical
requirements checklists in order to brand their phone as Android-
powered? (more like say Windows Mobile).
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We won't, this is something we will be actively discouraging (or from a
positive perspective, doing whatever we can to encourage android devices
to be compatible).
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Of course with an open source project "actively discouraging" can only go so far...

jashsu said:
Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves.
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The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."

From what I've heard from Google folks, they aren't that interested in the root thing, that is more a carrier issue. However, the way people originally got root was a serious issue. Not directly because you could get root, but because it was an outright silly bug than could potentially raise havoc on your device if you happened to type the wrong thing on your keyboard.

JesusFreke said:
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."
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I imagine the billing settlement fees could be rather sizeable. I don't run a credit card processing company, but i've seen $.20 - $.30 per transaction thrown around. That's in line with Paypal's fees.
We'll see if other manufacturer/carrier matchups continue to use Android Market. I wouldn't be surprised to see them create their own markets though, simply because if it's possible and there's the slightest financial incentive to do so, eventually someone will do it.

I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Sony did not want homebrew for multiple reasons. The obvious one is ISO playback. No matter what they did, warez was possible. Even back before we had perfected the actual emulation, we could simply patch calls to disc0:/ to ms0:/ and load the EBOOT. If we hadn't figured out how (the first one to truly do it was UMD Emulator, which would patch many of the PSP calls to make it MUCH smoother/more compatible), we could simply expand on this.
The second reason is that we were stepping on their toes, so to speak. They wanted to have many more downloadable minigames that could be booted off of the memstick, something we did years before them. I doubt they liked that we were doing what they planned, and doing it much better/faster.
Thirdly, they were responsible for all bricked devices. Although their unbricking process has always been easy, it costs them time/shipping. It's still a pain and costly for them to do it massively.
This is why they combated it on the PSP so much. On the standard Playstations, they've never had to worry about it this much. They didn't have memory cards that you could easily throw ISOs on, they didn't have any easily loaded software that would allow you to boot them, etc. You had to buy hardware devices (hdloader, the swap program (ffs can't remember the name), or modchips). Pirating the PSP was SO much easier.
Now, onto the G1... a Google employee has already (off the record, speaking for himself, not Google) that they should have just given us root access, especially if HTC was going to be so careless with their NBH images.
If every one was given root access, cracking paid applications would be much easier. Well, that is the belief. In reality, cracking them will be a sinch. With easily done byte code modification, and resigning the APK, I doubt there's an application that CAN'T be cracked. As long as you could install apps from browser/SD card, you can crack them. Even if they locked it down to market only, we could spoof DNS servers and run "unofficial" markets with cracked applications. This wouldn't require root access at all.
(excuse any typos, it's 10F outside atm and I'm trying to smoke.)

Gary13579 said:
I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
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I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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The last time I used my PSP was a year ago, as a flash drive so I could reformat my computer. I haven't actually *used* it in years, so anything you saw on QJ wasn't about the real Gary .
But yes that's me, and I was an admin at Dash Hacks.

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Lol what? fIRC lets you connect to any server and any channel.

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/

[Q] Conspiracy Theory

Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.

JimmyStale said:
Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.
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I think that they may or could do this to find bugs in a mass consumer type BETA just before a final release. I may be wrong that they would not do this to find ways to keep people locked out.
But who knows they may do this for your stated reasons.

You give the death star far too much credit. We are the minority. The masses will simply take what AT&T gives them.

I highly doubt it. The methods we use to do most of the things AT&T hates, like circumventing their stupid 'no non-market apps' policy, are the same ones we've always been using, and not just with the captivate but all their other android handsets too.

lol no AT&T I'm sure is not even paying attention to what Samsung does with it's phones. As long as Sammy gives ol' AT&T the checklist stating yup we broke it to your specs - AT&T will let it out the door without even looking at the software update.

JimmyStale said:
Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.
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This is not even good enough to be a conspiracy. What happens on XDA affects a minority of phones. Neither AT&T or Samsung see any need to get info in advance, they are way to busy on their QA and Dev cycles.
Go work for a big corporation that has a software development group and you will soon learn that any idea like this is pure folly.
The leaks are coming from a developer or QA person with time to kill and who sees no harm in leaking. If the company found out, he/she would be fired, but there is no way anyone will ever know as this stuff floats around the company network and on USB sticks all day long.

Not to mention AT&T is smart enough to know that those who work to remove bloatware, aren't going to use it (and pay them) anyway.
Its the ones that don't know any better that they hope to suck a few extra dollars from.

What's at & t excuse for not letting us install apps from the sd card?

Have they made an official stament about not letting people install apps from the sd card? Are they so cynical to claim that they're doing this for our benefit and preventing apps from damaging our phones?

They did in their FAQ section of thier site.
Sent via psychic transmittion.

that is so you don't install a tethering app...Ma Bell needs her extra $20 a month.

It's ATT, they are the biggest bunch of fail for a variety of reasons, so removing side loading apps goes along with that.

It is like their disapproval of flashing and rooting. But you can kind of see their point, there does seem to be a over abundance of complete morons in the world. Just look how many people brick their brand new phones every week by diving into unlocking and flashing custom roms without studying or reading or understanding at all.
These people then all blame AT$T and try to get new phones under warranty. Believe me, I hate AT$T more than anyone they are down there at the bottom of the food chain with lawyers and insurance companies, but I can kind of see their point. Besides,isn't it more of a google thing than an AT$T thing ?
That's not even getting into the illegal sharing of pay for apps.

denco7 said:
It is like their disapproval of flashing and rooting. But you can kind of see their point, there does seem to be a over abundance of complete morons in the world. Just look how many people brick their brand new phones every week by diving into unlocking and flashing custom roms without studying or reading or understanding at all.
These people then all blame AT$T and try to get new phones under warranty. Believe me, I hate AT$T more than anyone they are down there at the bottom of the food chain with lawyers and insurance companies, but I can kind of see their point. Besides,isn't it more of a google thing than an AT$T thing ?
That's not even getting into the illegal sharing of pay for apps.
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a google thing? at&t is the only company that blocks sideloading apps , locked bootloaders is another thing

Their official position on this is that they want to preserve the integrity of the user experience. In other words, they don't want to deal with customers having problems from apps that are not approved for the Market.
Do I buy this line? I think there is a slight validity to the claim, but it is ridiculous. What non techie user is going to do that anyway? Maybe 1% of customers?
It is most likely that they want you to use their premium apps from their filtered version of the Market. Google is also to blame here, they should not allow carriers to customize the available apps in the Market to begin with.

naplesbill said:
Google is also to blame here, they should not allow carriers to customize the available apps in the Market to begin with.
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+ 1000 Google should do something about it, android should open for users not carriers and theirs stupid bloatware and restrictions

Unfortunately " open source" means open to everyone to use and modify, including AT$T. It is up to the consumer to make the choice on who is doing it right.
And AT$T isn't the only one that blocks " non market " apps for " security reasons, "

Well, it is some thing that can be solved.... I know people say you shouldn't have to root your phone to get the most out if it, and I some what agree. But every problem that has been stated with the Inspire, and with AT&T can be solved. Custom ROMS, rooting, the side load wonder machine. Just do your home work and every thing will work.

If the recent set of malware riddled packages isn't enough reason to think AT&T may be right about this then maybe the fact that for at least the majority of basic users it really doesn't matter to them one way or the other. As long as they can get Angry Birds or some other game on their phone and can read their emails and play on the web they don't care. For those who really want more, they know how to get there.
And just because you and I may not call AT&T if we install a virus doesn't mean the 90% of the rest of the users wouldn't and blame AT&T for letting their phone get infected. AT&T has to decide which side of the problem they want to fall, and taking the safe route and saying only approved market applications allowed makes a lot of sense.
I find that this sort of lock down sort of floats back and forth between AT&T and Verizon. For a while Verizon only allowed Verizon packages on feature phones. You couldn't even do certain bluetooth things that were built into the phone because Verizon had locked them down. Now Verizon seems much more open but AT&T is putting restrictions.
AT&T is my third cell phone company and has been the best overall I have been with. Sure they have their moments and issues but at least my phone works at my house and on all the streets around my house unlike Verizon.
And yes I have rooted my phone because I wanted to install non-market applications. By the way I hear AT&T is planning to lighten the burden here at some point in some way. Not sure how but they are telling corporations that have their own Android applications that they plan to have some means to allow this in 2011. I can only hope it isn't just a certification of in house markets but we shall see.

VZW Knows, also update notification

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.

I always thought they knew, just can't do much about it. However, if they start using that information to deny certain services, it would be a major problem.

We need one of the nifty Verizon employees that frequent here to comment on this.

that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.

or the devs could just change the listing and fake the rom info right?

Well, thats my thought / hope. He read right back to me saying I was running a custom rom. I got to talking with him and he admitted he was rooted as well, and additionally stated that as a whole VZW doesn't pursue the issue. it just tripped me out, that he read it out. He had a very "don't bull**** me" tone. haha

tricky verizon.... they are catchin on!
if their phones didn't come with so much bloatware i wouldn't feel the need to root.

The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?

son0fthunder said:
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
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i think you need to charge your phone

i think you should download that and drop it on xda early for all of us.

I agree,I believe a charge is in order
1.21 giggawatts Thunder™

nrfitchett4 said:
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
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Anyone dumb enough to return a rooted phone deserves to be denied.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Haha, all warranty-implications aside, that's pretty cool that he could tell you what rom you were running.

Jcase has said before that they can tell, a big give away is you radio/baseband version. Do they care if you're rooted? Probably not unless your stealing services ,in which they are starting to act on and try to eliminate.
I root because I like to tinker with computers, I like the customization and speed that rooting gives us.
No flame please.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App

son0fthunder said:
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
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Hi. I just bought a Thunderbolt after having problems with Sprint. I was told the same thing and when I mentioned it in the forum from a thread I posted, I was called a liar, among other things. I was told, as you can see from my post, that they also know every site you visit and whether you are paying for the Mobile Hot Spot. Sorry to hear your story, but glad that it validates what I was told from Sprint.

Schedonnardus said:
i think you need to charge your phone
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That was a great reply!! Hilarious!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

I do it to get rid of crapware
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Well I'll just jump on over to Sprint if they terminate my contract! The developer support is the reason I have an Android phone. I'm sure the devs could come up with something to block this though.

Honestly... I think terminating contracts over rooted phones would be one of the dumbest moves a cellular company could make.
It takes a certain technical know-how to root a phone, even with "easy root" phones such as the Google Nexus series. These technical people are also the people that are likely to be in positions of IT buying power in major organizations. If one of these people were to loose service over the rooting their personal phone, they may make the case to organizational management to move the organizational fleet of phones away from that carrier. In turn, the termination of one contract leads to the eventual termination of an entire fleet of phones. This "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario prevents the cellular carriers from taking any large scale averse action against rooted phones. Furthermore, these technical people frequently talk to each other through rapid dissemination means (i.e. these forums). This sets up another scenario where the cancellation of one person's service may lead to the loss of many current and future subscribers.
These two factors leads to an environment where rooting is tolerated but not encouraged by the carriers. Carriers do not want to encourage rooting because it allows people to get rid of money making applications (i.e. City ID). However, they can not take averse action against rooted phones as that would launch the "mutually assured destruction" scenario discussed above. Carriers have turned to the method of locking down the phones as much as possible to prevent casual rooting of the devices. However, once a device is rooted, it is out of the carrier's control.

I fell asleep shortly after this thread was posted, I will however post updated pics once phone is charged.

Keep Unlocking Phones Legal

Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:

I SIGNED
jbats said:
Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:
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i signed it man hope it helps we need to get this out more on different forums and such anything i can do to help

soldier1184 said:
i signed it man hope it helps we need to get this out more on different forums and such anything i can do to help
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Repost to your social networks, start other threads, pass it along. If you don't voice your opinion, you can't moan when they get locked down. Look what Verizon just did with there recent update. Luckily we have Adam Outler in our arsenal of devs.

jbats said:
Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Signed it a few minutes ago
Sent from my GT-P3110 using xda app-developers app

I just wanted to give my two cents on this issue. I'm not a nay-sayer and am not trying to say you shouldn't take action if you believe action is warranted.
My opinions on this issue are as follows.
1. Has anyone read any of the official 'white house' responses from other petitions? It's like they pay someone (not sure who but I would bet they make minimum wage) to give a 2 or 3 line comment to whatever you submit. So say this petition gets an additional 82,000 signatures... what's the official response going to be? "Thank you for your concern in this matter, however, the administration's official position is that modifying an item that you do not fully own adds a burden and cost to businesses when those modifications result in failure of said item. We will continue to evaluate this issue" or some BS.
2. This law isn't enforceable. You can't physically 'go after' people for their cell phones and prosecute them. There's just no manpower to do so. Next time you get pulled over for speeding is the cop going to see your cell phone in your car and ask to see it? How's he/she going to know it's unlocked without permission (or unlocked at all)?
3. Let this law stand... see where it goes... Imagine the fallout if carriers started sending warning texts to people who have supposedly illegally unlocked their phones! Imagine the lawsuits/bad publicity that would spawn against carriers for monitoring people's cell phones without their consent or knowledge! I guarantee there's nothing in anyone's cell contracts that would allow T-Mobile, AT&T, etc. the right to track and monitor usage of the device throughout the duration of your contract to insure the device isn't being tampered with or unlocked.
4. This is just political figures throwing their campaign contributor 'a bone' and another sad sign of just how bloated government is here. This law is no different than some of the other ridiculous digital copyright crap being spewed out.
5. Once your contract is up you are allowed to do whatever you wish to your phone. You can also get permission to have your device unlocked from your carrier at any time. I know of a few people that travel abroad and for them it was as simple as asking to be able to use another sim when they travel. If you have a good long standing account with your carrier they are very likely to comply (else they risk losing business).
None of this applies to flashing custom roms or the like (which will always void any warranty, etc.), just with carrier unlocking the phone.

anactoraaron said:
None of this applies to flashing custom roms or the like (which will always void any warranty, etc.), just with carrier unlocking the phone.
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Your right and I totally agree. I just recently got an i777 unlocked by simply calling the carrier(ATnT) and requesting it so I could use it with a prepaid network. The account was in good standing, all previous balance had been paid off.Voila
Trick was driving 45 mins to get a sim, because I told the carrier it was my phone(idiot), but my friend was happy.