[Q] Conspiracy Theory - Captivate General

[Q] Conspiracy Theory - Captivate General

Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.

JimmyStale said:
Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.
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I think that they may or could do this to find bugs in a mass consumer type BETA just before a final release. I may be wrong that they would not do this to find ways to keep people locked out.
But who knows they may do this for your stated reasons.

You give the death star far too much credit. We are the minority. The masses will simply take what AT&T gives them.

I highly doubt it. The methods we use to do most of the things AT&T hates, like circumventing their stupid 'no non-market apps' policy, are the same ones we've always been using, and not just with the captivate but all their other android handsets too.

lol no AT&T I'm sure is not even paying attention to what Samsung does with it's phones. As long as Sammy gives ol' AT&T the checklist stating yup we broke it to your specs - AT&T will let it out the door without even looking at the software update.

JimmyStale said:
Does anyone think that AT&T would be smart enough to intentionally leak Froyo to the dev community to see what methods would be employed to hack/mod/de-bloat and then subsequently block/secure those methods? Just food for thought.
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Click to collapse
This is not even good enough to be a conspiracy. What happens on XDA affects a minority of phones. Neither AT&T or Samsung see any need to get info in advance, they are way to busy on their QA and Dev cycles.
Go work for a big corporation that has a software development group and you will soon learn that any idea like this is pure folly.
The leaks are coming from a developer or QA person with time to kill and who sees no harm in leaking. If the company found out, he/she would be fired, but there is no way anyone will ever know as this stuff floats around the company network and on USB sticks all day long.

Not to mention AT&T is smart enough to know that those who work to remove bloatware, aren't going to use it (and pay them) anyway.
Its the ones that don't know any better that they hope to suck a few extra dollars from.

Related

In case no one saw this. "Samsung Secret"

Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.

whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.

How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Open source doesn't mean free.

I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe

ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.

This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.

Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.

A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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Click to collapse
AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.

Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.

Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).

I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...

I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.

Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
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Click to collapse
Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.

I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.

The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.

Heads Up-VERY IMPORTANT INFO!!

This is VERY important information, please read all of it.
LOL I can see I made a mistake by posting this. There's just a bunch of arguing going on and most of you have seemed to disprove s lot of this. I was just relaying the information, maybe I'm too gullible to be here Either way, the information is relevant, but not confirmed by me or anyone, really besides P3droid. I see no reason why he would claim to have this information but just be making stuff up, but who knows. *shrug*
I'm assuming that most of you have seen it by now, but either way, I just felt there was a need to try to get the word out to everyone who might use a custom ROM. Some very disturbing information was brought to light recently by a respected member of the Verizon Droid and Droid X hacking community, known as P3droid. He is a member of Team Black Hat, similar to any development team here. He has made a lot of very important connections as a developer, some within the respective carriers. The information I'm going to share with you mostly pertains to Verizon, but P3droid *specifically* mentions that the implementation is cross-carrier.
My understanding of what's up:
The carriers have been working on an application that runs behind the scenes. The idea behind it is to track what happens on the phone and report back. It can detect unauthorized tethering, root, and custom ROMs. It works by periodically scanning your system partition for modifications, checking to see if your phone's MEID refuses OTA updates, and other unknown methods.
Can't we just remove it?
Sure, but your phone will be flagged by AT&T because the application isn't reporting back. They literally take your phone off of the network and force you to pay the ETF (early termination fee). [brought in to question by the people here, sounds implausible]
What can we do?
Stop tethering for now, I would officially consider it unsafe if you don't want to pay the ETF (maybe) or possibly have your phone flagged by AT&T.
If you want to be on the safe side, revert stock. However, as stated later, this will be very difficult to implement on a GSM network. As of right now, we should be OK, but as I said, better safe than sorry.
If any of your friends have unmodified Captivates, preferably with 2.2 (reverting stock doesn't count), get me a system dump, so I can see if the application in question is there. Directions: Make sure you have the android SDK installed on your computer, you can find it at developer.android.com. Once you have it set up and working, type (for Mac and Linux)
Code:
$ mkdir -p ~/Desktop/app
$ adb pull /system/app ~/Desktop/app
and for Windows,
Code:
cd Desktop
mkdir app
adb pull /system/app "C:\Documents and Settings\[yourusername]\Desktop\app"
Just remember, the Android root community is much bigger than we think. We have some real power. We just need to pull ourselves together and exert it.
What this means for us:
No more root
No more tethering
No more warranty-AT&T will flag your device as bad
Possibly no more connectivity
No more... anything
It is unknown which phones currently have the application preloaded, however it is known that several phones on Verizon have it installed.
Kaik541, a trusted acquaintance of mine pointed out that this would be difficult, if not impossible to implement on a GSM network. It is a very valid point, however I still think that the best plan of action is to proceed with caution.
A quick dialog between P3droid and me:
Have you heard anything about AT&T and unauthorized tethering?
Nothing too specific, just general chatter.
Looks like it's time to stop tethering either way. I'll let all the AT&T guys know, if they don't already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And finally, hit up the source link for more infos.
http://androidheadlines.com/2011/04/will-rooting-your-android-phone-come-to-an-end.html
and
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
For up to date info, follow P3droid on twitter: http://twitter.com/P3droid and me (but mostly P3droid) http://twitter.com/ytt3r.

Reserved as a natural reflex

There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.

I highly doubt this is a hoax. We seriously need to cover ourselves. This is scary stuff.

Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.

TheEscapist said:
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
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Click to collapse
Luckily our Rogers Captivates don't do OTA updates! Not yet, anyways.
And Fully agree on the tethering.

We have some very talented people in this community. I, personally, don't know anything about android development. But I do have enough knowledge about development to know that anything can be reversed, tricked, or even stopped. We have the skills, man-power, and will. We'll be okay in the long-run.
I'm not worried.

We need to comb over the TOS and see if they can legally do this.
How would they hide this program?

they can't. I don't think its implemented yet on any gsm phones, but we know for a fact that the leaked gingerbread for droid x has it.

designfears said:
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
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Click to collapse
In Canada they have to inform you of changes, from that point you have 30 days to cancel your contract without any penalty, as it is a change of agreement. Not sure if this relates to you US guys and girls,
Also, if they do this, what is to stop you from buying a pay as you go sim card, and using it on your smart phones. The pay as you go plans here in canada have the same options as a contract plan......
So this almost makes no sense....

What a better way to lose a bunch of customers. Doesn't make sense to me either.
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Quickest way to kill off the Android platform would be to limit us to the crap roms the carriers put out. I never even thought of an iPhone until I heard this!

I fail to see how they could legally do this. Not to mention forcing an etf will result in people switching networks. No one would put up with that and stay with them.

If this is true, I wonder how hard it would be to hack the app and just have it send back false information.

cappysw10 said:
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
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I think it would be things like side-loading apps or free tethering that they're primarily concerned about.

I wonder if the penalty will only go against giys who get subsidized phones. I buy my phones out right so for that to happen would be off putting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?

They can't force a ETF that would be illegal if your not violating your contract i.e. tethering.
I have never tethered at all and would gladly cancel my att contract with paying the etf if this happened. IF ATT wont let me use my phone as I want as long as I am not stealing service I will take my service to a carrier that will END OF STORY.

Does this mean the Communities are a lot larger than we think? I originally thought that we were a small marketplace, and didn't have a major impact on things.
So if the Carriers and manufacturers are investing this kind of time, money and effort into stopping the modifications, We must be causing havoc.......
Still doesn't make sense............

Lucke said:
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
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Click to collapse
Read the linked threads.......They say Google is helping them.

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/06/6419016-google-tightens-reins-on-android-
It looks like Google is thinking of locking down also. It would protect us from Carrier modding woes, but what's gonna start happening when they decide not to release source codes....

VZW Knows, also update notification

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.

I always thought they knew, just can't do much about it. However, if they start using that information to deny certain services, it would be a major problem.

We need one of the nifty Verizon employees that frequent here to comment on this.

that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.

or the devs could just change the listing and fake the rom info right?

Well, thats my thought / hope. He read right back to me saying I was running a custom rom. I got to talking with him and he admitted he was rooted as well, and additionally stated that as a whole VZW doesn't pursue the issue. it just tripped me out, that he read it out. He had a very "don't bull**** me" tone. haha

tricky verizon.... they are catchin on!
if their phones didn't come with so much bloatware i wouldn't feel the need to root.

The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?

son0fthunder said:
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
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Click to collapse
i think you need to charge your phone

i think you should download that and drop it on xda early for all of us.

I agree,I believe a charge is in order
1.21 giggawatts Thunder™

nrfitchett4 said:
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone dumb enough to return a rooted phone deserves to be denied.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Haha, all warranty-implications aside, that's pretty cool that he could tell you what rom you were running.

Jcase has said before that they can tell, a big give away is you radio/baseband version. Do they care if you're rooted? Probably not unless your stealing services ,in which they are starting to act on and try to eliminate.
I root because I like to tinker with computers, I like the customization and speed that rooting gives us.
No flame please.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App

son0fthunder said:
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi. I just bought a Thunderbolt after having problems with Sprint. I was told the same thing and when I mentioned it in the forum from a thread I posted, I was called a liar, among other things. I was told, as you can see from my post, that they also know every site you visit and whether you are paying for the Mobile Hot Spot. Sorry to hear your story, but glad that it validates what I was told from Sprint.

Schedonnardus said:
i think you need to charge your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a great reply!! Hilarious!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

I do it to get rid of crapware
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Well I'll just jump on over to Sprint if they terminate my contract! The developer support is the reason I have an Android phone. I'm sure the devs could come up with something to block this though.

Honestly... I think terminating contracts over rooted phones would be one of the dumbest moves a cellular company could make.
It takes a certain technical know-how to root a phone, even with "easy root" phones such as the Google Nexus series. These technical people are also the people that are likely to be in positions of IT buying power in major organizations. If one of these people were to loose service over the rooting their personal phone, they may make the case to organizational management to move the organizational fleet of phones away from that carrier. In turn, the termination of one contract leads to the eventual termination of an entire fleet of phones. This "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario prevents the cellular carriers from taking any large scale averse action against rooted phones. Furthermore, these technical people frequently talk to each other through rapid dissemination means (i.e. these forums). This sets up another scenario where the cancellation of one person's service may lead to the loss of many current and future subscribers.
These two factors leads to an environment where rooting is tolerated but not encouraged by the carriers. Carriers do not want to encourage rooting because it allows people to get rid of money making applications (i.e. City ID). However, they can not take averse action against rooted phones as that would launch the "mutually assured destruction" scenario discussed above. Carriers have turned to the method of locking down the phones as much as possible to prevent casual rooting of the devices. However, once a device is rooted, it is out of the carrier's control.

I fell asleep shortly after this thread was posted, I will however post updated pics once phone is charged.

Why isn't there more of a rally against AT&T?

I know that Dan found an exploit, I have a feeling this is part of why nobody seems to be complaining to AT&T about the locked bootloader, but the problem is that it isn't a permanent fix, granted we have the ability to disable automated updates, etc. My problem is that AT&T is going to lock all devices from here on out, simply because we allowed them too.
So what can we do?

AnthomX said:
So what can we do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't give AT&T your business? I know the locked bootloader issue incenses the Android modding community, but the vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care. AT&T is practically the government, and they don't care either. It's frustrating, but if you don't like it please vote with your dollars.

burhanistan said:
Don't give AT&T your business? I know the locked bootloader issue incenses the Android modding community, but the vast majority of consumers don't know and don't care. AT&T is practically the government, and they don't care either. It's frustrating, but if you don't like it please vote with your dollars.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with that, my only complaint is the small majority of us that notice the lock. Speaking with our money in this case isn't going to make much of a point. There simply isn't enough of us to make them take a hit in their margins. So my guess is that in this instance, it is, what it is, for us? I know AT&T provides us (me and family) the best service in terms of voice/data.
That is just disappointing, because other carriers will follow behind it.

AnthomX said:
I know that Dan found an exploit, I have a feeling this is part of why nobody seems to be complaining to AT&T about the locked bootloader, but the problem is that it isn't a permanent fix, granted we have the ability to disable automated updates, etc. My problem is that AT&T is going to lock all devices from here on out, simply because we allowed them too.
So what can we do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right now there isn't many legal avenues in favor of the consumer concerning the access to unlocked devices. Congress has given the carriers most of the deciding power over what extent the end-user may manipulate the software on the device. After a petition gained enough friction and reached the White House, the executive branch has agreed consumers deserve the right to invoke their will over devices sold to them without criminal liability, there has yet been any legislative change regarding the matter.
Ultimately, what we can do is multi-faceted to get the attention of carriers [AT&T] to cave to our demands:
1: We can vote with our money by refusing to purchase devices distributed by them, citing their abuse of power over devices sold to consumers -- leaving us no freedom to do as we please with merchandise we contractually own.
2: We can appeal to authority by raising the issue to a federal level to be examined by either higher courts, consumer affairs, Better Business Bureau, or writing your congressman.
3: Start an online petition and hope it gains enough traction to put AT&T and other carriers in a negative light publically on the national stage.
These options work well with numbers and have a better chance of success when done in conjunction with one another. The armchair approach has very little chance of success and often doesn't even merit a reply by way of spokesperson.

AnthomX said:
I can agree with that, my only complaint is the small majority of us that notice the lock. Speaking with our money in this case isn't going to make much of a point. There simply isn't enough of us to make them take a hit in their margins. So my guess is that in this instance, it is, what it is, for us? I know AT&T provides us (me and family) the best service in terms of voice/data.
That is just disappointing, because other carriers will follow behind it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but to play devil's advocate, I can see why AT&T would want to lock down devices. I imagine since they've been selling Android devices they've had to process tons of RMAs on devices that were bricked by amateurs installing the wrong ROMs. That may well amount to a minuscule hit in their bloated profit margin, but a corporation tends to do whatever it can to prevent dollars from leaking out. If the locked bootloader prevents the casual ROM flasher from bricking a new S4, then they view that as success. I don't know if that's why they did it, though.
The other side to that, of course, that an unlocked bootloader makes it easy to restore a bricked device back to stock. I'd like to see AT&T and other carriers reach out to the dev community more and have some provisions for installing alternate ROMs and OSes on the devices. I'd also like them to just sell me bandwidth and not interfere with content or operating systems, but I won't hold my breath!

antde201 said:
Right now there isn't many legal avenues in favor of the consumer concerning the access to unlocked devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
burhanistan said:
I agree, but to play devil's advocate,
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Click to collapse
AGREED very much Burhanistan, I know that is a hit for AT&T, but you know, they could offer repair services at a decent rate that could fix these bad flashes, as most of the time only a JTAG is needed. Which leads into support and encouragement for the Android communities. But, one can dream. They are more about that profit margin than a profit margin AND great customer service.
Antde, I am looking at starting a petition, maybe gain some traction there? Who knows, but I think you are right, in the end, AT&T doesn't want our business, and I am ok with that. Unfortunately it will be a headache similar to swapping from Apple after using them for so many years. Time to bust out the aspirin I guess. We will see.

Becasue carriers dont care about what we think about locked bootloaders.At the end of the day this device is making millions for them think about it to them it doesnt make a difference.I myself work for a carrier in the U.S and trust me to them what ever rants and complaints we post mean squat....
Anyways its going to be unlocked soon when the VZW releases so whatever I dont even get why we should make such a big deal locked bootloaders always get hacked ...

burhanistan said:
I agree, but to play devil's advocate, I can see why AT&T would want to lock down devices. I imagine since they've been selling Android devices they've had to process tons of RMAs on devices that were bricked by amateurs installing the wrong ROMs. That may well amount to a minuscule hit in their bloated profit margin, but a corporation tends to do whatever it can to prevent dollars from leaking out. If the locked bootloader prevents the casual ROM flasher from bricking a new S4, then they view that as success. I don't know if that's why they did it, though.
The other side to that, of course, that an unlocked bootloader makes it easy to restore a bricked device back to stock. I'd like to see AT&T and other carriers reach out to the dev community more and have some provisions for installing alternate ROMs and OSes on the devices. I'd also like them to just sell me bandwidth and not interfere with content or operating systems, but I won't hold my breath!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's more to a carrier's decision to lock down a device's bootloader than just pure spite and asserting their control. Carriers are also charged with mobile security, protection of their assets (bandwidth), and again security.
An unlocked bootloader theoretically opens the floodgates to a plethora of security threats to both the device and information stored and/or shared therein. Google and their partners are pushing mobile security to both stay relevant in the mobile OS market and to appeal to other markets where they may have been previously overlooked, such as defense and business.
You also have to consider the possibility of unregulated mobile tethering which falls under the umbrella of loss prevention to any business.
Lastly, as you and others have mentioned, the possibility of insurance claims due to bricked devices. Though I'd argue that this area doesn't pose much risk to the carrier directly as you void your warranty as soon as you flash a custom ROM.
So with all of these facets together, you'd see how it would be a no brainer to a corporation to purchase the secure version of an OEM device. Especially if you've chosen to adopt a subsidized device. The contract you sign is subject to whatever terms they produce and if you do not agree, you're free to stay with your current device and leave when your contract expires. I don't care for this sentiment, but it's the reality they have procured.

I think they did it to fight back against tethering.

ATT getting phone manufacturers to lock their phones started a while back. IIRC the first big uproar was for the HTC Vivid. IMHO it's for security and ATT keeping their big accounts. BB ruled for so long because of security. iPhones are the same way. Companies want a secure device. Moto (one of the main ones that market to business use) has always had the stingiest bootloaders regardless of carrier.

poofyhairguy said:
I think they did it to fight back against tethering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya because that really stopped us from tethering... Oh wait..

S5 Non-Developer-Edition - aka this POS

Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.**Now working**
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."

That's a negative sense. Can you imagine it positively ?
If you see it as positively then developer edition give ours good opportunity.. i believe it..

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're being a bit dramatic...this phone will get some returns being so locked down, but the number of us that care about root is small, less than 3% I would bet. This will be the best selling Android phone of the year for any carrier most likely.
1) Fingerprint scanner can be greatly improved if you scan the sides of your fingers as well.
2) Agreed and explanation would be nice, but on the other hand they could be trying to avoid a lot of people using this and unknowingly eating up all their data allotment. Consumers have come to understand that being on your wifi doesn't use your data, so if they enabled this feature, they would be using their data while on wifi as well, many without understanding. Then lots of people get overages and get upset with the carriers, causing a headache and more bad PR.
3) Agree again, but Google is asking OEM's to do this with KitKat, it's not unique to Samsung.
4) Rooting/ROMing is not even close to being what Android is "ALL ABOUT", but it's a nice perk with most phones.
5) Okay
This phone will likely get root at some point, but who knows for sure. Luckily, there's other great options to pick from as well.

wow... calm it down son...
waiting for root exploit is part of the fun for me... yes, it sucks i can't have root out of the box to restore my apps but samsung made plenty of upgrades that will keep me busy till a root is out... if it ever does.

I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.

I was able to successfully obtain f-off on the Galaxy S5.

jucytec said:
wow... calm it down son...
waiting for root exploit is part of the fun for me... yes, it sucks i can't have root out of the box to restore my apps but samsung made plenty of upgrades that will keep me busy till a root is out... if it ever does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong post

fillyo said:
Then go to the M8 forums, we don't care about your thoughts on the S5 and why you bought the M8. I'm not in there posting why I didn't buy the One. I went to buy the One on launch day but chickened out because the camera sucks and the bezel is huge and it is too tall.
Sent from my SM-G900V using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read my post again monkey. I never said I bought an M8. I said I don't mind waiting for root. M8 is garbage
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

nicholi2789 said:
I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then go to the M8 forums, we don't care about your thoughts on the S5 and why you bought the M8. I'm not in the One forum posting that it is a POS and why I didn't buy the One. I went to buy the One on launch day but chickened out because the camera sucks and the bezel is huge and it is too tall. But that is my choice, I'm not ****ting on everyone else's who bought the One by telling them that in their forums. We know this phone will not be cracked and who cares, works fine as it. I just want root for tether and debloat.
It's funny that you see M8 and Nexus 5 fanboys posting all over the S5 articles everywhere bashing the S5, it's a joke. You must not be happy with your choice. I guess this is what happens to the top dog.
Sent from my SM-G900V using xda app-developers app

Eh, people just need to reinforce their decision to go for prettyness over functionality. But we all cannot be teenage girls. And yes, sometimes the most popular device is actually the best.
I think this whole "rebel against popularity" stems from the battle between iOS and Android. Unfortunately Samsung is being seen as the new Apple in the android environment when clearly the provider, in this case VZW, is the oppressor.
Sent from my shiny new GS5 using XDA Premium.
previous device: Galaxy Nexus

jpmcnown said:
Glad I didn't yet sell my S4, because I believe the Verizon S5 is soon to be the most returned phone in Android history.
While Verizon/Samung/Android didn't "actively" mislead anyone about the capabilities of this phone, they clearly allowed people to believe things to the contrary, and it royally pisses me off.
1> There is no sense in having a finger print scanner that doesn't work most of the time, and doesn't allow for purchases with PayPal as originally intended/advertised.
2> Crippling the download booster function and not even offering an explanation is simply unacceptable.
3> Having an extSdCard that 4.4 doesn't allow 3rd party apps to access is not "secure", it's stupid.
4> Rooting and allowing awesome developers to do what they do is what Android is ALL ABOUT, and this phone is the epitome of preventing that.
5> I'm sure there are other things yet to make it to light, that will also have no explanation for the defiance of logic.
Verizon, Android, and Samsung have succeeded in making the iPhone of the Android world. Frankly, I'd rather have an iPhone, and iCant stand em. Best of luck to those that decide to stick it out and pray for root, as I believe that is the only thing that could possibly salvage this joke of a device. Anyone involved in it's creation, should feel ashamed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted by hypocrites as self evident, as if they never personally ridiculed, or violently opposed it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yes it does allow payments via Paypal, stop being a tool and READ, maybe even Google something....
2. The gentlemen above me gave a great explanation. It just wouldn't make sense in a capped data environment.
3. If Root were obtained, this wouldn't be an issue. 3rd party apps CAN access the card BTW, they just can't write to folders other than their own. You do know the My Files app works, right????
4. No. Providing smartphone users with an OS that has tightly integrated Google services as a means for Google to serve you relevant ads is what ANDROID is all about. You and I and the rest of us who care about customizing are miniscule compared to the BILLION PLUS Android users. Get a clue dude.
5. Stop being a tool, get off the forums, go play around with the phone, maybe even watch a video or two about all the tips and tricks the phone has, and then come back, when you're ready to not sound like a whiny teenager.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------
nicholi2789 said:
I got your back JP. The Verizon Samsung Galaxy s5 turned out to be all the things I thought it would be. I.E. more of the same from Samsung and Verizon both. I am so glad I jumped ship to HTC and got the M8. I am comfortably S-off'ed, doing whatever the hell I want with my 600$ phone.
Guys, cut him ssome slack. I'm sure each and every one of you has *****ed about buying a 600$ phone and not being able to modify it at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I doubt most of us have. Apart from it being an old argument that accomplishes NOTHING, it also is pretty naive to buy a phone THINKING that people who VOLUNTEER and work on donations would spend time to find an exploit, as if this is owed or expected. The sense of entitlement for people who believe this is ridiculous.

S5 does have root, does have custom boot loader, and already has roms. It is VERIZON that has your phone locked.
I'm sorry to say it, but I jumped over to T MOBILE and they paid my ETF fee....up to $350...
$50 A month unlimited, instead of $90 or so, plus additional line too. ...
So far I'm happy with the switch though.
Sorry you are having issues with your version.
If I come across anything to help you guys I will post in here for you.
Sent from my rooted 'beaned' SM-G900T using Tapatalk Premium

mexiken said:
1. Yes it does allow payments via Paypal, stop being a tool and READ, maybe even Google something....
2. The gentlemen above me gave a great explanation. It just wouldn't make sense in a capped data environment.
3. If Root were obtained, this wouldn't be an issue. 3rd party apps CAN access the card BTW, they just can't write to folders other than their own. You do know the My Files app works, right????
4. No. Providing smartphone users with an OS that has tightly integrated Google services as a means for Google to serve you relevant ads is what ANDROID is all about. You and I and the rest of us who care about customizing are miniscule compared to the BILLION PLUS Android users. Get a clue dude.
5. Stop being a tool, get off the forums, go play around with the phone, maybe even watch a video or two about all the tips and tricks the phone has, and then come back, when you're ready to not sound like a whiny teenager.
---------- Post added at 01:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------
No, I doubt most of us have. Apart from it being an old argument that accomplishes NOTHING, it also is pretty naive to buy a phone THINKING that people who VOLUNTEER and work on donations would spend time to find an exploit, as if this is owed or expected. The sense of entitlement for people who believe this is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Follow your own advice, I'll wait.......
2. I wish I was so naive that no explanation, would be considered an explanation.
3. You do know that "My Files" is not a third party app, right????? I understand that most of these issues would be a non-issue with root access, but please oh wise one, explain how this apparent increased root difficulty is peculiarly carrier-specific?
4. No one in the history of the world has ever said "I'm going to get an Android so I can have relevant ads." At least one person has said, "I want to customize the **** out of my phone, therefore, Android."
5. Thank you, I had no idea that there was information about this phone anywhere other than XDA. Perhaps in my quest, I may find this elusive information about the Verizon S5 fingerprint scanner usable with Paypal you speak of.
6. I do NOT feel "entitled" to root. I understand that what you call "volunteering" isn't also about NOT getting paid, which is why I have no problem supporting the awesome efforts of root/recovery/rom/app developers. I DO feel entitled to features advertised to be available in a product, and if/when those features are deliberately disabled, I DO feel entitled to an explanation. Unless you can provide explanations instead of a cult-like defense reserved for Apple Forums, please limit your responses to the tools that may kiss you ass elsewhere.
This is no different than if a car company was to release a model of vehicle with a set of unique features, only to have the dealership remove them, and not bother to tell anyone about it. Then when you realize that those features are missing, and take to a forum (typically) full of enlightened people with explanations and solutions, you instead receive rhetoric like "Stop *****ing about the car not having heated seats(albeit not a unique feature), it has a steering wheel, doesn't it you ungrateful prick?"

em0ney14 said:
S5 does have root, does have custom boot loader, and already has roms. It is VERIZON that has your phone locked.
I'm sorry to say it, but I jumped over to T MOBILE and they paid my ETF fee....up to $350...
$50 A month unlimited, instead of $90 or so, plus additional line too. ...
So far I'm happy with the switch though.
Sorry you are having issues with your version.
If I come across anything to help you guys I will post in here for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.

jpmcnown said:
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same boat. I have piece of mind, that wherever I go I have service with Verizon. Although tmobile has great service where I live in Atlanta, I've also traveled north and south and felt so cheap and angry having a phone with a G and edge icon for data majority of the time. I mean it's 2014 for crying out loud. LOL! Also the fact my family lives in West Virginia where there's no tmobile service and it roams on att at the worst capped speeds. At that point I promise to not let Verizon go because it has a stellar LTE icon at least 90% of the way. Once I get back to Atlanta, I say, well I have great coverage where I live, costs is cheaper, and mainly bootloaders are unlocked with tmobile. Once I travel on the road again it's the same cycle of me back pedaling leaving Verizon because they're hands down the most reliable, I have a 20% discount, and unlimited data. I'm tempted to suspend my service with Verizon and only reconnect when I travel until tmobile gets there coverage wise. Since I've been off contract forever I can suspend my line for at least half the year without being billed. I feel ridiculous going through this as an adult because I like to flash ROMS. Help me? LOL!
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

jpmcnown said:
I was able to successfully obtain f-off on the Galaxy S5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is hands-down the funniest post I've ever read on XDA. I agree, after my Note 3, I'm all done with Samsung devices permanently. They don't care about their customers at all. They've been most unhelpful after I've exhausted every channel of support imaginable looking for a solution. I wish Motorola would make a high-end device again, which I bet they are. Regardless, don't get too excited about the S5 getting unlocked. I've been working with another S4 developer for about 6 months now, and while we've got a great understanding of what's going on, there's not much we can do. We're still working, but don't get this device expecting custom ROMs and kernels. Root is realistic though, and I'd imagine it'll be here soon
Remember that you have 14 days after renewal of contract or purchase of the device to bring it back and tell those red trolls that you can't root this bad boy.

jpmcnown said:
Thanks for your input, I am seriously weighing my options, I've been checking out the T-Mobile S5 forums, and see a lot of interesting things going on over there. I haven't been under contract with Verizon for years, and frankly, coverage is the only thing that's preventing me from leaving, and they unfortunately have no competition in that regard. Still considering throwing my grandfathered unlimited data plans on ebay, and exchanging coverage for capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does the work, selling your unlimited plan? Do you have to lose your phone number as well?
Free storage from Copy:
https://copy.com?r=cScoov

brazcub said:
Nice of you to share how you really feel about the GS5. Now you should take that to the M8 forums since it will get you a lot more mileage there. Here people just don't care.
I'm very happy with my GS5 and a lot of people are too.
Sounds like you don't even have the phoeu, but came here to troll instead.
Good luck with that.
Sent from my SM-G900V using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Yeah, you got me, I'm pissed about a phone I didn't buy. What part of my diatribe would give any sane person the impression that I don't own the Verizon S5 genius?

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