Related
This is VERY important information, please read all of it.
LOL I can see I made a mistake by posting this. There's just a bunch of arguing going on and most of you have seemed to disprove s lot of this. I was just relaying the information, maybe I'm too gullible to be here Either way, the information is relevant, but not confirmed by me or anyone, really besides P3droid. I see no reason why he would claim to have this information but just be making stuff up, but who knows. *shrug*
I'm assuming that most of you have seen it by now, but either way, I just felt there was a need to try to get the word out to everyone who might use a custom ROM. Some very disturbing information was brought to light recently by a respected member of the Verizon Droid and Droid X hacking community, known as P3droid. He is a member of Team Black Hat, similar to any development team here. He has made a lot of very important connections as a developer, some within the respective carriers. The information I'm going to share with you mostly pertains to Verizon, but P3droid *specifically* mentions that the implementation is cross-carrier.
My understanding of what's up:
The carriers have been working on an application that runs behind the scenes. The idea behind it is to track what happens on the phone and report back. It can detect unauthorized tethering, root, and custom ROMs. It works by periodically scanning your system partition for modifications, checking to see if your phone's MEID refuses OTA updates, and other unknown methods.
Can't we just remove it?
Sure, but your phone will be flagged by AT&T because the application isn't reporting back. They literally take your phone off of the network and force you to pay the ETF (early termination fee). [brought in to question by the people here, sounds implausible]
What can we do?
Stop tethering for now, I would officially consider it unsafe if you don't want to pay the ETF (maybe) or possibly have your phone flagged by AT&T.
If you want to be on the safe side, revert stock. However, as stated later, this will be very difficult to implement on a GSM network. As of right now, we should be OK, but as I said, better safe than sorry.
If any of your friends have unmodified Captivates, preferably with 2.2 (reverting stock doesn't count), get me a system dump, so I can see if the application in question is there. Directions: Make sure you have the android SDK installed on your computer, you can find it at developer.android.com. Once you have it set up and working, type (for Mac and Linux)
Code:
$ mkdir -p ~/Desktop/app
$ adb pull /system/app ~/Desktop/app
and for Windows,
Code:
cd Desktop
mkdir app
adb pull /system/app "C:\Documents and Settings\[yourusername]\Desktop\app"
Just remember, the Android root community is much bigger than we think. We have some real power. We just need to pull ourselves together and exert it.
What this means for us:
No more root
No more tethering
No more warranty-AT&T will flag your device as bad
Possibly no more connectivity
No more... anything
It is unknown which phones currently have the application preloaded, however it is known that several phones on Verizon have it installed.
Kaik541, a trusted acquaintance of mine pointed out that this would be difficult, if not impossible to implement on a GSM network. It is a very valid point, however I still think that the best plan of action is to proceed with caution.
A quick dialog between P3droid and me:
Have you heard anything about AT&T and unauthorized tethering?
Nothing too specific, just general chatter.
Looks like it's time to stop tethering either way. I'll let all the AT&T guys know, if they don't already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And finally, hit up the source link for more infos.
http://androidheadlines.com/2011/04/will-rooting-your-android-phone-come-to-an-end.html
and
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
For up to date info, follow P3droid on twitter: http://twitter.com/P3droid and me (but mostly P3droid) http://twitter.com/ytt3r.
Reserved as a natural reflex
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
I highly doubt this is a hoax. We seriously need to cover ourselves. This is scary stuff.
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
TheEscapist said:
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily our Rogers Captivates don't do OTA updates! Not yet, anyways.
And Fully agree on the tethering.
We have some very talented people in this community. I, personally, don't know anything about android development. But I do have enough knowledge about development to know that anything can be reversed, tricked, or even stopped. We have the skills, man-power, and will. We'll be okay in the long-run.
I'm not worried.
We need to comb over the TOS and see if they can legally do this.
How would they hide this program?
they can't. I don't think its implemented yet on any gsm phones, but we know for a fact that the leaked gingerbread for droid x has it.
designfears said:
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Canada they have to inform you of changes, from that point you have 30 days to cancel your contract without any penalty, as it is a change of agreement. Not sure if this relates to you US guys and girls,
Also, if they do this, what is to stop you from buying a pay as you go sim card, and using it on your smart phones. The pay as you go plans here in canada have the same options as a contract plan......
So this almost makes no sense....
What a better way to lose a bunch of customers. Doesn't make sense to me either.
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Quickest way to kill off the Android platform would be to limit us to the crap roms the carriers put out. I never even thought of an iPhone until I heard this!
I fail to see how they could legally do this. Not to mention forcing an etf will result in people switching networks. No one would put up with that and stay with them.
If this is true, I wonder how hard it would be to hack the app and just have it send back false information.
cappysw10 said:
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it would be things like side-loading apps or free tethering that they're primarily concerned about.
I wonder if the penalty will only go against giys who get subsidized phones. I buy my phones out right so for that to happen would be off putting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
They can't force a ETF that would be illegal if your not violating your contract i.e. tethering.
I have never tethered at all and would gladly cancel my att contract with paying the etf if this happened. IF ATT wont let me use my phone as I want as long as I am not stealing service I will take my service to a carrier that will END OF STORY.
Does this mean the Communities are a lot larger than we think? I originally thought that we were a small marketplace, and didn't have a major impact on things.
So if the Carriers and manufacturers are investing this kind of time, money and effort into stopping the modifications, We must be causing havoc.......
Still doesn't make sense............
Lucke said:
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the linked threads.......They say Google is helping them.
http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/06/6419016-google-tightens-reins-on-android-
It looks like Google is thinking of locking down also. It would protect us from Carrier modding woes, but what's gonna start happening when they decide not to release source codes....
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
I always thought they knew, just can't do much about it. However, if they start using that information to deny certain services, it would be a major problem.
We need one of the nifty Verizon employees that frequent here to comment on this.
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
or the devs could just change the listing and fake the rom info right?
Well, thats my thought / hope. He read right back to me saying I was running a custom rom. I got to talking with him and he admitted he was rooted as well, and additionally stated that as a whole VZW doesn't pursue the issue. it just tripped me out, that he read it out. He had a very "don't bull**** me" tone. haha
tricky verizon.... they are catchin on!
if their phones didn't come with so much bloatware i wouldn't feel the need to root.
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
son0fthunder said:
The screen cap was from today, obviously. What do you guys think of that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you need to charge your phone
i think you should download that and drop it on xda early for all of us.
I agree,I believe a charge is in order
1.21 giggawatts Thunder™
nrfitchett4 said:
that is interesting. In theory, they could use that to deny warranty claims.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone dumb enough to return a rooted phone deserves to be denied.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Haha, all warranty-implications aside, that's pretty cool that he could tell you what rom you were running.
Jcase has said before that they can tell, a big give away is you radio/baseband version. Do they care if you're rooted? Probably not unless your stealing services ,in which they are starting to act on and try to eliminate.
I root because I like to tinker with computers, I like the customization and speed that rooting gives us.
No flame please.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
son0fthunder said:
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time post here.
I just got off the phone after a nightmare of random reboots and so on and so forth. VZW send me a text today saying an update to my phone was available. Thinking I'd find out if it was simply to disable mobile tether or not I called in. The tech was surprised, but said he did see the notes on my account that the message was sent.
He said it was NOT 2.3, but another maintenance release, approved today for push tomorrow. All of this can be dismissed, however he did say something quite interesting. He said he couldn't fully help me because my phone was rooted. Obviously I denied that, and he said look man, I know it is. I said how? He replied that he could see that I was running DASbamf 2.1, which I am. Explained that it was part of the new system for the 4g phones. Believe me or not, I just wanted to put it out there that VZW can apparently tell, his words were that more than likely, it's pulled from when the phone is activated. Has anyone else heard of either of these? This is also posted on droid forums, just putting that out these to avoid the duplicate talks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi. I just bought a Thunderbolt after having problems with Sprint. I was told the same thing and when I mentioned it in the forum from a thread I posted, I was called a liar, among other things. I was told, as you can see from my post, that they also know every site you visit and whether you are paying for the Mobile Hot Spot. Sorry to hear your story, but glad that it validates what I was told from Sprint.
Schedonnardus said:
i think you need to charge your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a great reply!! Hilarious!
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
I do it to get rid of crapware
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Well I'll just jump on over to Sprint if they terminate my contract! The developer support is the reason I have an Android phone. I'm sure the devs could come up with something to block this though.
Honestly... I think terminating contracts over rooted phones would be one of the dumbest moves a cellular company could make.
It takes a certain technical know-how to root a phone, even with "easy root" phones such as the Google Nexus series. These technical people are also the people that are likely to be in positions of IT buying power in major organizations. If one of these people were to loose service over the rooting their personal phone, they may make the case to organizational management to move the organizational fleet of phones away from that carrier. In turn, the termination of one contract leads to the eventual termination of an entire fleet of phones. This "Mutually Assured Destruction" scenario prevents the cellular carriers from taking any large scale averse action against rooted phones. Furthermore, these technical people frequently talk to each other through rapid dissemination means (i.e. these forums). This sets up another scenario where the cancellation of one person's service may lead to the loss of many current and future subscribers.
These two factors leads to an environment where rooting is tolerated but not encouraged by the carriers. Carriers do not want to encourage rooting because it allows people to get rid of money making applications (i.e. City ID). However, they can not take averse action against rooted phones as that would launch the "mutually assured destruction" scenario discussed above. Carriers have turned to the method of locking down the phones as much as possible to prevent casual rooting of the devices. However, once a device is rooted, it is out of the carrier's control.
I fell asleep shortly after this thread was posted, I will however post updated pics once phone is charged.
Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.
Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.
Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.
Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?
Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,
Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!
Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.
amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium
I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."
My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3
block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.
I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.
I've submitted two reviews on the Verizon website giving my honest opinion of the device. They have denied posting both times due to what they say violates the guidelines. Admittedly, my first review was rather harsh. After the first denial, I went back and read the guidelines and posted a very toned down version. I didn't post anything that was specifically prohibited in the second review. They did not see it that way and denied posting the second version for the same given reason. Apparently, Verizon will not tolerate ANY criticism of their company by reviewers.
Here are their guidelines:
Verizon values your feedback!
When writing your review, please consider the following guidelines:
Focus on the product and your individual experience using it
Provide details about why you liked or disliked a product
All submitted reviews are subject to the terms set forth in our Terms of Use
We reserve the right not to post your review if it contains any of the following types of content or violates other guidelines:
Obscenities, discriminatory language, or other language not suitable for a public forum
Advertisements, “spam” content, or references to other products, offers, or websites
Email addresses, URLs, phone numbers, physical addresses or other forms of contact information
Critical or spiteful comments on other reviews posted on the page or their authors
In addition, if you wish to share feedback with us about product selection, pricing, ordering, delivery or other customer service issues, please do not submit this feedback through a product review. Instead, contact us directly.
Enjoy writing your review!
What is the text of your review?
KarlStyles said:
What is the text of your review?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
They own the site so they're entitled to filter content as they see fit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
mike163 said:
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't disagree with anything you said, but it does fall out of their guidelines. It is more a complaint against Verizon than a review of the phone. Maybe the way to go about it is to rephrase it more like a product review. For example, instead of generalizing on limited apps to card, phrase it as your experience. Something like "unlike previous phones, the new android system didn't let me move as many apps to the external card. As a result, I find the 16 gb storage is filling up quickly." Then move to disappointed that Verizon doesn't have 32gb version.
Similarly you can mention that the device runs ok, and Samsung added a feature to turn off system apps in order to conserve battery and reduce clutter. But then move to however there is a lot of bloat that can't be turned off.
I'm not sure what to do with the rooting portion, maybe keep it as a final note rather than making that your main point. I would also add a starting statement of "I've used the phone for x days and here's my impression so far". That may be enough to qualify it to their standard.
Btw, you didn't mention the fact that Verizon disabled two of the main advertised features of the phone - download boost and finger print payments.
You must be maintain guidelines.. All time..
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
thewebsiteisdown said:
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
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Click to collapse
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
thewebsiteisdown said:
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
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Click to collapse
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
jmill75 said:
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
thewebsiteisdown said:
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
jmill75 said:
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly thank you for summing it up for me.
VZW, and ATT, are required by law to allow you to network unlock the device, not boot loader unlock. The carrier covers warranty claims on the device, therefore it is in their interest to minimize the amount of damage "power users" can do to their devices
in my opinion, this trend of carriers locking bootloaders is the direct result of unscrupulous "modders" sending in for warranty or insurance claims after bricking their devices.
finally, we are by far the minority of smartphone users. a very very small percentage of Samsung, or the carriers, customer base and we DO have other options. the Nexus line, HTC with their unlockable bootloaders, GPE, and Dev edition devices.
/rant sorry
Russ77 said:
great input, thanks.
call it whatever you want, companies are in business to make money. if they're giving up profit margin due to fraudulent warranty claims on modified devices, they're well within their rights to sell locked devices.
was anyone here really surprised that the s5 is locked? really?
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Click to collapse
How much profit has been lost on this? $10k? $1 million? If you took the entire user base of XDA or any other tech forum and had all of them return broken phones, then you'd attention of a company like VZW. Otherwise, they don't care. They just want to pick a fight they can win easily and make the "modding" community look bad because 1% have not followed directions or are just plain dumb.
A) if you bring in a rooted device that is bricked, they won't even offer you a claim
B) How many people are dumb enough to spend hours on XDA and other sites following instructions and asking questions, only to just give up and go back to VZW/ATT with their bricked phone and say "Idk how this happened?"
Please. These companies aren't in business to make money, they are in business to advance an agenda for shareholders while raking in the money from consumers who have a rapidly disappearing range of options to consider. Cincinnati is a great recent example. Our local provider just got bought out by VZW and at the same time, laid off a decent chunk of staff to make way for the corporate shift. All the while, these same companies lie to the customer with their marketing fluff.
I am not an advocate for one carrier over another, as I have no vested interest in any one of them over another. However, I will say that T-Mo's "in your face" approach to their new marketing is quite polarizing to the rest of the status quo in the industry of "corporate bs doublespeak" where one day you have a contract for $99/mo unlimited everything, and the next, you are paying $130 with a data cap. (Which happens to be what happened to me).
If the PC industry was this way, we wouldn't have half the progress we have seen in the last 20 years. Instead, the PC industry (mac included) embraced unique user created content (hackers included) and actually employed some of those who were great at it to work for them. But, NO, not in the telecom industry. It is the most ridiculous double standard.
So yes, these companies can go shove it. I'm done here. I won't be getting an S5 or and HTC M8 at this point. I have analyzed the phones and neither one is getting the "ok" from me anyhow. I just think it is very interesting how much a company is willing to combat what the "android community," if you can even call it one, has become.
A bunch of polarizing, angry tech loving people who never agree on anything, myself included. Get me out of here. I'm done.
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm from NKY and just switched from sprint to T-Mobile. I don't get LTE in NKY, and I haven't been to Cinci yet since the switch. That being said, my coverage has been pretty good and so long as I'm in anything resembling civilization I pretty much always get 4g (5-10Mbps). It's not all bad, and hopefully LTE is on the way, Unlimited data is nice, and I have JUMP, so being able to upgrade yearly is awesome as well.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't take away unlimited, they basically forced you to opt out of that option in order to pay for contract price phones when you upgrade. I've never had the unlimited, so it's nothing I really bothered to complain about. I did however, end up doubling my coverage for the same price one day 2 years ago when I was on the My Verizon app, and noticed they were offering it. Of course they didn't bother to advertise it anywhere else though.
I will never lose Verizon. I know it sucks how freaking crazy they are locking everything, but there are Devs out there who always find a way. I can not simply give up the best coverage just for root. As much as it might suck one day, not being able to actually use your phone due to **** service would be even worse.
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------
k.electron said:
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung phones are superior to HTC. Not just my opinion, but basically backed up by facts. S5 has the best display on the market, hands down. Faster processor, better camera, better layout, better extras. The only thing the HTC has over the S5 is exterior speakers, but honestly, who even uses them that much? You're either listening to music on your headphones, or plugging the phone into better speakers anyways
I mean come on seriously Verizon in my opinion already charges too much just for their data plans and then you pay for a $600 phone on top of it that you can't even mod, no flashing AOSP for you, no experimenting with the phone that you OWN! I switched to T-Mobile a few weeks ago just for this reason I found out TWRP came out for the S6 on T-Mobile and then I thought no way am I going to miss out on CM and other AOSP ROMS I love having the ability to change my kernel and ROM sure there is SafeStrap which I don't really know when that will come out for Verizon S6 but you can't install AOSP ROMS on it there is no REAL freedom until you have an unlocked bootloader.
I made this to see how many people think like me when it comes to Verizon locking bootloaders.
Do you think Verizon owns their phones and they have every right to lock down their phones?
Or do you think you are paying these crazy amounts of money for a phone you can't even customize?
If you want to comment saying why you chose your answer that would be great! You don't have to though.
Edit: worded wrong The thing that should replace yes is "I think having a locked bootloader is fine".
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
hopesrequiem said:
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand Verizon has the best service but I am saying wouldn't it be nice to have both an unlocked bootloader for easy root and custom recoverys AND the nice Verizon service. Thanks for the response
ethanscooter said:
I understand Verizon has the best service but I am saying wouldn't it be nice to have both an unlocked bootloader for easy root and custom recoverys AND the nice Verizon service. Thanks for the response
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Omg yeah that would be THE best lol. If only the nexus 6 wasn't so big
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
hopesrequiem said:
Omg yeah that would be THE best lol. If only the nexus 6 wasn't so big
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then vote no lol that is what the poll is about no means having both unlocked bootloader and great service on the galaxy s6.
xD
Isn't your first option misleading thus skewing everyone to vote for the 2nd option? Wouldn't it be more fair to have the first option read
"Is it OK that Verizon makes the phone extra secure by locking the bootloader"
They do not own the phones unless you are leasing yours. I am also not seeing the point of this poll...to show how many here in a rooting hacking development site are unhappy because they can't do anything with the phone? I understand your frustration, I am just trying to see the point here.
Maybe you should ask if Verizon has the right to gain more commercial and military contracts by making the phone secure. Just playing devil's advocate here.
Isn't this poll akin to asking a group of kids "Who wants ice cream?" Just sayin'
KennyG123 said:
Isn't your first option misleading thus skewing everyone to vote for the 2nd option? Wouldn't it be more fair to have the first option read
"Is it OK that Verizon makes the phone extra secure by locking the bootloader"
They do not own the phones unless you are leasing yours. I am also not seeing the point of this poll...to show how many here in a rooting hacking development site are unhappy because they can't do anything with the phone? I understand your frustration, I am just trying to see the point here.
Maybe you should ask if Verizon has the right to gain more commercial and military contracts by making the phone secure. Just playing devil's advocate here.
Isn't this poll akin to asking a group of kids "Who wants ice cream?" Just sayin'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post. I agree.
I didn't take the poll because I feel Verizon can do whatever they like since I knew all of it up front, yet the first choice also includes an untruth....that Verizon owns the phone.
I own my phone, and I think Verizon made their choice clear before I purchased it.
Buyer beware.
Also....if you think they are just getting rich from us....I suggest you buy Verizon stock and share in the wealth.
The poll has 2 selections which are both invalid.
Bottom line is, if you wish to connect your device to the Verizon network, your device should follow their standards. Don't see a problem with that. If standardizing and locking devices keeps the network superior, I support them.
Unlocked Bootloader Is A Major Disincentive To Change Devices
As many are saying, I will not change devices (currently, Verizon HTC M8), unless I can properly mod my new device with root and recovery, and the unlocked bootloader is the absolute prerequisite for this ability to produce the optimal features, performance, and aesthetics in any new device.
Verizon made a marketing choice between selling supportability and network costs (no root means all phones allegedly have the some OS and basic settings, network has been discussed) or the cost of hiring people for support that can do more than read a script and follow a flow chart, which is what would be needed if they allowed for rooting. Also, think of the variety of phones. If they sold one brand of phone, and maybe only 2 or 3 of that brands models, supportability would not be as much of an issue.
Do I like being locked out from under the hood of my phone? No, of course not. Why else would I be on this site??
Do I understand their reasoning? Yes! Good technicians are not cheap. The person you call for tech help probably starts at under $12 an hour, and *might* have an A+ certification.
I'd rather have good cell service at a relatively reasonable rate and a variety of smartphones to choose from than pay how ever much extra it would cost to hire actual technicians to troubleshoot the myriad of issues opening the bootlocker would cost. Even with the "If you brek in, you don;t get support" type wanings, they would still have to pay hundreds iof not thousands of manhours for all the schmucks that would go in, unlock their phones, throw on custom ROM, or just start deleting files, and still call Verizon Support to fix it.
Source of my opinion - I have worked tech support for years. No amount of warnings, labels, etc will prevent customers for demanding you fix their stupidity, even when they admit that is the problem.
hopesrequiem said:
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
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Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
But I agree with OP on we should be allowed to unlock bootloader.
bkeaver said:
Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
But I agree with OP on we should be allowed to unlock bootloader.
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THANK YOU!!! It's like seriously we just want to use CWM or TWRP on OUR PHONES WE PAID FOR it is just ridiculous how they expect us to pay all this money for a phone that we own that we can't even modify!
Unfortunately all the b**ching and complaining isn't going to change that anytime soon I'm afraid
While I hate restrictions and censorship and over-protectiveness, I realize big red will only change when the market demands it. Unfortunately, we're too small a percentage of said market for the other players to even speak about bootloaders and root access, much less convince Verizon that they need to change. All Verizon cares about is the bottom line $$$, and apparently locking down everything is more profitable than attracting xda members to their network. As if they need the money, lol. I live in an area where there is only one choice, so I take what I can get.
I agree, the poll question is totally like asking a bunch of dairy-tolerant children if they want ice cream. I'd rather see something like "if you could pay more and waive any software support for a mobile device that has an unlocked bootloader, would you and how much more would you be willing to pay?" I suppose that question was sort of answered with the Google Edition devices (answer: $450 was too much for most) and sort of with the Nexus devices. I would pay at least $100 personally for an open bootloader, and probably waive the warranty completely. How could this not make Verizon money. Oh and my problem with the Nexus devices was the network exclusivity and then the Nexus 6 just being too big.
The real problem is there is no good developer program with Verizon or Samsung. If you buy a dev edition phone you are stuck with the OS that comes on it and Samsung's dev program is terrible. Verizon needs to create a good dev program with unlocked and not supported phones but give access to OTA updates. It's that simple...
MOS95B said:
Verizon made a marketing choice between selling supportability and network costs (no root means all phones allegedly have the some OS and basic settings, network has been discussed) or the cost of hiring people for support that can do more than read a script and follow a flow chart, which is what would be needed if they allowed for rooting. Also, think of the variety of phones. If they sold one brand of phone, and maybe only 2 or 3 of that brands models, supportability would not be as much of an issue.
Do I like being locked out from under the hood of my phone? No, of course not. Why else would I be on this site??
Do I understand their reasoning? Yes! Good technicians are not cheap. The person you call for tech help probably starts at under $12 an hour, and *might* have an A+ certification.
I'd rather have good cell service at a relatively reasonable rate and a variety of smartphones to choose from than pay how ever much extra it would cost to hire actual technicians to troubleshoot the myriad of issues opening the bootlocker would cost. Even with the "If you brek in, you don;t get support" type wanings, they would still have to pay hundreds iof not thousands of manhours for all the schmucks that would go in, unlock their phones, throw on custom ROM, or just start deleting files, and still call Verizon Support to fix it.
Source of my opinion - I have worked tech support for years. No amount of warnings, labels, etc will prevent customers for demanding you fix their stupidity, even when they admit that is the problem.
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Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
bkeaver said:
Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
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Then why did you choose Verizon?
---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
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This.
Squintz said:
Then why did you choose Verizon?
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To be honest I was all set to go back to att from tmobile but att pissed me off and I had never been on verizon so I went with them because of all the rave reviews about better network. Now we're kind of stuck for the time being.
This poll is stupid. Of course they have the right. They don't have to sell you the phone on their network. They're also not forcing you to stay, you could easily leave. Wonders of capitalism.
Disclaimer: Not saying I agree with it, but they certainly have the right.
KennyG123 said:
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
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Excellent analogy! In that same mindset though, Cox cable didn't paste a giant tramp stamp on my garage door because there the internet provider of my home. Just sayin ?