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Is the latest Samsung Backlash Enough for them to update to Froyo?

Thought i would share this with the rest of the XDA community who got scammed by Samsung.
A user revolt is starting among the tech blogs and on Twitter about Samsung's absolutely shameful lack of communication on updating its U.S. Galaxy S phones (including the Captivate, Epic, Fascinate, Mesmerize and Vibrant) to Android 2.2.
This is the first article i found posted 1-14.
Samsung Must Come Clean on Android Updates.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375769,00.asp
Here is the second article i found posted on 1-17.
Samsung Forcing US Carriers to Pay for Android Froyo on Galaxy S?
http://www.phonenews.com/samsung-forcing-us-carriers-to-pay-for-android-froyo-on-galaxy-s-15151/#more-15151
Here is the third article i found posted on 1-18.
Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Coming in March?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375940,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fpcmag%2Fbreakingnews+%28PCMag.com+Breaking+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Here is yet another article.
Are Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Updates Being Held Back Because Of Cost?
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/01/16/are-samsung-galaxy-s-froyo-updates-being-held-back-because-of-cost/

I don't know but there is only one way for them to please everyone and get users back on their side.....
Upgrade straight to Gingerbread. That would make all Galaxy S Users happy and probably keep a large % of them customers on their next phone.

Lets be honest, there were certainly issues when Samsung released their version of Froyo to select providers up here in canada. Rogers decided to wait it out and have them work out some bugs that were crippling other galaxy s phones. As you know FROYO is now available on Rogers and Canada being a smaller market, I believe it's being used as as testing ground for the firmware before it's released en mass to the much larger AT&T community. I've been using FROYO since it was launched on the Rogers network and haven't encountered any problems as of yet. I'm also not seeing an onslaught of complaining about phones being bricked or melted due to the release, so it would seem the AT&T update should be along rather soon. But what do i know?

http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-not-charging-carriers-for-galaxy-s-froyo-updates

I certainly hope so and not because i would use the stock firmware but because it would provide a much easier base to dev on than what the captivate devs have to deal with at the current moment.

Reminds me of the **** Apple and Microsoft have done with updates in the past, only in reverse. "Let's update all the devices, but make the new software so robust that the old hardware can't run it!" Only Samsung's case is quite different. Our phones are very capable of new updates.
They've got us by the balls and I'm just about fed up because we're never going to see an update. It just doesn't make sense for them from an economic standpoint and AT&T doesn't want to shell out the money. If I were in business to make and keep as many billions of dollars as possible, I'd probably behave in a similar manner.

Lancez said:
http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-not-charging-carriers-for-galaxy-s-froyo-updates
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Click to collapse
That's so arbitrary and conceited. Well, all of this is actually. But Samsung releasing that little utterance just to give us a glimmer of hope is just more hay in the barn and can't possibly be taken seriously. They've been saying the same **** since day 1. Anyone remember what happened with the boy who cried wolf?

upNsmokeAllDay said:
Here is the third article i found posted on 1-18.
Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Coming in March?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375940,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fpcmag%2Fbreakingnews+%28PCMag.com+Breaking+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would make me the winner of the office pool. Check my signature, been saying it since November.

People think that by complaining loud enough they will get what they want. But honestly the people who are begging for froyo are a small subset of the total handset owners. People who are on xda are the die hard tech people who always want the latest and greatest.
It will happen when it happens
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

We may be a small subset, but we are the ones our friends and family come to for recommendations. All of a sudden, the impact is no longer small.

I have no idea if the rumors are true, I know Phandroid will help spread the rumors but the rumors make sense.
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it, but yes Android 2.1 is a working OS and Android 2.2 is an upgrade. They like most manufactures add bloatware, it does take engineering time to take stock Froyo add the bloat and all the carrier customizations, why should Samsung bother? Makes economic sense for them just to sell a next generation Galaxy S .
I for one love the stock Froyo running on my Rogers Captivate but I will not hold my breath waiting for Samsung to deliver 2.3 or 2.4
I agree at the end of the day 95% of the people will never visit XDA, or run Kies.
The tech geeks do not speak for the majority, this is why there were not line ups for the Nexus One.

Captain Geezer said:
I've been using FROYO since it was launched on the Rogers network and haven't encountered any problems as of yet.
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Click to collapse
It's been near perfect for me as well. The only complaints I have are:
1. The proximity sensor is screwed up. During a call, if the phone's screen is facing up the screen will turn back on. This means any time you hold the phone between your head and shoulder, your face starts mashing buttons. It's annoying as hell.
2. The contacts application never exits. It'll remain active in memory unless you end it. If you end it, your desktop disappears for several seconds before returning.

Gingerbread or bust.
Never again.
Sent from my Captivate.

AstroDigital said:
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it, but yes Android 2.1 is a working OS and Android 2.2 is an upgrade. They like most manufactures add bloatware, it does take engineering time to take stock Froyo add the bloat and all the carrier customizations, why should Samsung bother? Makes economic sense for them just to sell a next generation Galaxy S.
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Click to collapse
We are not a bunch of whiners unhappy because we don't have the latest update and demanding something we have no right to. We are a group of consumers unhappy that we have been lied to and mislead. Samsung promised this update almost at the same time the phones were released. They promised a time frame in which it would be delivered. They have not followed through on their promises. They are selling accessories for these phones that have features that will only work with the promised updates. That right there is fraud. They have released this update everywhere but in the US, which says to me that it is not a technical consideration that is holding it up. Regardless of what may or may not make sense economically to Samsung, a company that does not keep its promises deserves to have that fact spread to consumers everywhere. Let's see how many next gen Galaxy phones Samsung sells after this debacle.

I've saved them the trouble and gone ahead and switched to T-mobile and a brand new G2 (no nexus s, because I will never buy another samsung device ever again, be it tv, blu-ray player, phone, microwave, toaster, blender, pocket knife, zipper, or plastic guitar pick).
As far as the $200 early term fee? Well, I've paid it, and I will be making a trip to the county courthouse on Friday to file against AT&T in small claims court for knowingly selling a malfunctioning device and breech of contract. Should they actually decide to show up instead of calling me to settle like I expect they will, I will be citing Cuomo v. Dell as a point of reference.
After 2 non-functioning replacements, I'm done with samsung, and to be honest, it really doesn't bother me to make AT&T pay for Samsung's mistake, because AT&T sold me the phone in the first place, and could have easily given me an Iphone as a replacement when I asked them to. Maybe next time they'll think twice about using a manufacturer with a history of repeating this exact same ****.
No class action because, well, let's face it, I don't have the money or the time to pursue a class action, and as a consumer, I know that I won't be putting up with their **** ever again. I just want the contract they conned me into gone, and the $400 for the phone and the ETF back. I would suggest that if any of you are unhappy with the phone that you don't sit around and just put up with it. You need to go get another phone with another carrier, cancel your contract, and file in small claims against AT&T. When word starts spreading of this money will talk and the carriers will listen. Then samsung won't be able to sell their devices to carriers.
Thanks for making that decision easy, Samsung and AT&T.

AstroDigital said:
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it
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Click to collapse
From experience (2 returns are failures, 1 was DOA) that simply isn't true. Samsung is making users play russian roulette with refurbished phones.

Yup. This whole story just makes me all the more satisfied with my decision to go with the EVO over the EPIC on Sprint. We, EVO owners, were among the very first phones to be updated to FroYo. I've been rockin 2.2 for months now!
Go HTC and go Sprint!
P.S. I have other reasons why I would never by a Samsung phone. For some strange reason, there are way too many apps and mods that are 'not compatible with Galaxy S phones'.
Sent from my EVO rockin' MikFroYo!

leetpriest said:
Should they actually decide to show up instead of calling me to settle like I expect they will, I will be citing Cuomo v. Dell as a point of reference.
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Click to collapse
Cuomo v. Dell was about defrauding customers out of money by falsely advertising a 0% interest rate. I think you are going to have trouble convincing a judge that AT&T committed fraud because you would have to prove that they sold you your phone knowing that it had hardware problems that could not be fixed. Since there are thousands of people using Captivates without shutdown issues or other hardware related problems, fraud is a huge stretch, especially when the burden of proof is on you. If you seriously cite Cuomo v. Dell, AT&T may defend against it just to prevent any example from being set.

nkrick said:
Cuomo v. Dell was about defrauding customers out of money by falsely advertising a 0% interest rate. I think you are going to have trouble convincing a judge that AT&T committed fraud because you would have to prove that they sold you your phone knowing that it had hardware problems that could not be fixed. Since there are thousands of people using Captivates without shutdown issues or other hardware related problems, fraud is a huge stretch, especially when the burden of proof is on you. If you seriously cite Cuomo v. Dell, AT&T may defend against it just to prevent any example from being set.
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Click to collapse
So there isn't a press release dated Dec 20 out from Samsung instructing AT&T to "Sell through existing inventory" of faulty captivates? Citing that during a small claims hearing may not do much for me, but anyone that purchased a captivate after that press release now has a very real case against samsung and AT&T.
Alas, that's neither here nor there. I couldn't cite that case in the FILING process, or the SERVING process, only during the hearing, which precedes a settlement. You're telling me AT&T might be willing to pay a local attorney thousands, or pay thousands to fly a corp attorney down here to fight over $400?
I don't see it happening. But hey, I could be wrong. They could always attempt to countersue and not win. I didn't ask for your legal advice. I merely suggested that it may be worth everyone's time to send a message to the carriers that Samsung devices shouldn't be sold, that's all. It's not like it's any skin off your back if I win or lose a SMALL CLAIMS case, right?

leetpriest said:
So there isn't a press release dated Dec 20 out from Samsung instructing AT&T to "Sell through existing inventory" of faulty captivates? Citing that during a small claims hearing may not do much for me, but anyone that purchased a captivate after that press release now has a very real case against samsung and AT&T.
Alas, that's neither here nor there. I couldn't cite that case in the FILING process, or the SERVING process, only during the hearing, which precedes a settlement. You're telling me AT&T might be willing to pay a local attorney thousands, or pay thousands to fly a corp attorney down here to fight over $400?
I don't see it happening. But hey, I could be wrong. They could always attempt to countersue and not win. I didn't ask for your legal advice. I merely suggested that it may be worth everyone's time to send a message to the carriers that Samsung devices shouldn't be sold, that's all. It's not like it's any skin off your back if I win or lose a SMALL CLAIMS case, right?
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Click to collapse
I applaud your efforts, and i would do the same thing. Small claims court should be an easy victory and here is why:
1. It probably will never get that far, as the cost of the lawyer is in excess of the $ amount - assuming you are only going after the early term fee - I don't think you have a case for anything else
2. There are laws on the books about "merchantability" or "fitness of purpose". I don't AT&T or Samsung engaged in outright, but the simple fact that the phone had defects is enough - it is not dissimilar to invoking the lemon laws for cars.
Cars have 0 day return guarantee, so lemon laws were necessary. As a consumer, you went through the proper process and let them replace your device 2 times yet defects persisted. By then your 30 day return was over.
Document your experience and you should be OK if it goes to court.
I am not a lawyer but i have filed in small claims court in the past and had very good success getting results.

Secondary Strategy for Verizon Bootloader Unlock

Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.

Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.

Wont do anything different. They'll tell you the same thing they told me after I filed a BBB complaint against thrm for my X2. "Your totally right our phones blow, so let me early upgrade you or do ypu want to terminate your contract for X amount of money?"

mike86325 said:
Such a great post :good:
I totally agree and I think this will catch their attention way more than anything we can do online. I'm in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the kind words, Its the same angle I talk to Verizon about on the 28th the day that they said the Unlimited Data was gone.. I told them that I found out from everyone but them and how they didn't inform me in any way.
We need to get more people on the non informed purchase angle. They make no mention online or anywhere. Sure Pocketnow and like sites do but they are not selling us the phone. Their image is even worse now that Corp and Tech release 2 different statements.
I really hope this gets unlocked easily because I really like the phone really nice feel to it.

This is a good approach. As someone who pitches in with customer service/support for a tech company, it's often the "nice" people who get better responses, and the quantity of requests can have a bigger affect.... way more than one angry person ranting and raving that you can just write off and ignore.
Also, it's still a person at the other end of the line. They probably are not aware of the situation or don't like it either, but it's their job. It's the people at the top that usually push down these horrible policies, the bean counters and such that don't have to deal with the angry public.

I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

Boss428man said:
Ok I am just going to throw it out there. Please just hold the waves of "can't" and "not gonna work" negativity is just a waste. There are ways to get your voice heard that have worked for me in the past and here is my suggestion. The more the merrier!
Problem is Verizon put a encrypted bootloader on the Samsung Galaxy S3. The bigger problem and the angle we should have is they sold it to us with out letting us know their difference. News of the other S3's sold around the world painted a clear image of what we were getting into... "The same phone." Samsung had used their brand to deliver one device between all networks. Yes there were some cpu changes due to networks but that was noted everywhere. Verizon always note differences in how great there network is and the plus's in their service over others but nothing on the one change they had done to the Galaxy S3 vs the entire world. Obviously because its a negative. Their sales model was we are selling the Galaxy S3 and since we thought we were getting the same product we ordered it. Thats pretty big. Complaining here on xda I think is a waste.., the petition... I did sign btw but unfortunetly is just noise to Verizon. Everyone has to call with the general attitude of being frustrated like they have not been honestly sold a product and that trust was broken.
Don't get mad, don't start going threatening to jump ship... say that this really has broken our trust, don't mention technical info or just lightly because they are not going to have a clue. Say that they made no mention anywhere nor any employee informed you that their device was locked down vs any other and that they do a great job of letting you know market, network, and service differences but didn't lift a finger to let you know about the phone difference being a negative. Lastly listen to what they say as frustrating as it may be and say you want to find a way to rectify this what ever it takes.
Don't make calling your daily task, but just call when you have time... IE ride into work, ride home. Talk to the cust rep and when that fizzles ask for a super. Hang up call again then explain the same frustration and how you even more frustrated with the crappy response the previous rep and that its not acceptable. Just keep asking who you can talk to. If half there customer support traffic is from the locked bootloader and misleading sales thats going to send a pretty good message plus everything else thats going on with news online.
Lastly you could even email them, the more the better. The whole deal here is the message needs to be going to THE MAN... Big Red. Not the message being found out by the man reading it in off of some blog. The additional traffic to their general daily cycle work will send a strong concern message but with the same message of being misleading sales starts to make it a big deal. If this goes mainstream that can be very threatening. There is no guarantee it will work but the more headlines of frustrated and upset customers is really bad for them. No business wants to be linked to upset mis-informed customers...That is a trust issue in the Verizon Name.
Side note: This refocused energy may also help the DEV work with less noise and clutter. Everyone wants to help which is cool but so many none useful comments. If it was that easy these guys would have already done it. Lets let them reverse engineer things while we use our energy usefully to stir things up on the other end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel for you guys. I really do. We've tried everything with the One X but to no avail. Good luck with your attempts. These carriers need to remember who gives them their money.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

manchild83 said:
I work at a major utility. Please remember that if you call be nice to the customer service representative you are taking to. They are only the messenger, please remember that. They are not allowed too much latitude with what they can do for you. The reason for your call is logged and reviewed by the management of the company so if you call constantly and take up customer service minutes over the locked bootloader you WILL have an impact on daily business and cause management of the company to fix the problem. Calling customer service works.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the comment and good to hear your advise!

Ok now we really have been miss sold. The answers I have recieved from support are well making there position worse they said that not only the bricking of devices but that these open devices would take down their data networks do to use. If that is the case why release the "Developer Edition". Everything will break lose anyway. We all pre-ordered thinking we got a unlocked Galaxy S3 and now with out any word of additional editions they try and fix things...?

Where was an unlocked phone advertised or even realistically expected?
It sucks but VZW is so big and doesn't care at all, and won't suffer much from it.
Sent from my AT&T Galaxy SIII (SGH-i747)

yes it was expected since EVER model that has been released thats att tmo sprint international korean and us cellular ALL are unlocked.

Thats it it wasn't printed that it was locked it was advertised just like the other Galaxy s3's... They were sell you the same Galaxy S3 with the same experience you would expect unless other wise noted... which it wasn't... They should just offer to unlock our phones and void the warranty. Simple fix and essentially the same thing they have done with the Developer Edition and it would save them some returns..

AT&T rep: "Your GS4 is slow because you did not activate it properly."

Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.

It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Click to collapse
Ha. Funniest post so far today...

Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.

I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..

Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.

atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.

raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.

mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.

No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.

geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people

MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding

geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that people would definitely believe!

Verizon refuses to publish my reviews of the GS5

I've submitted two reviews on the Verizon website giving my honest opinion of the device. They have denied posting both times due to what they say violates the guidelines. Admittedly, my first review was rather harsh. After the first denial, I went back and read the guidelines and posted a very toned down version. I didn't post anything that was specifically prohibited in the second review. They did not see it that way and denied posting the second version for the same given reason. Apparently, Verizon will not tolerate ANY criticism of their company by reviewers.
Here are their guidelines:
Verizon values your feedback!
When writing your review, please consider the following guidelines:
Focus on the product and your individual experience using it
Provide details about why you liked or disliked a product
All submitted reviews are subject to the terms set forth in our Terms of Use
We reserve the right not to post your review if it contains any of the following types of content or violates other guidelines:
Obscenities, discriminatory language, or other language not suitable for a public forum
Advertisements, “spam” content, or references to other products, offers, or websites
Email addresses, URLs, phone numbers, physical addresses or other forms of contact information
Critical or spiteful comments on other reviews posted on the page or their authors
In addition, if you wish to share feedback with us about product selection, pricing, ordering, delivery or other customer service issues, please do not submit this feedback through a product review. Instead, contact us directly.
Enjoy writing your review!

What is the text of your review?

KarlStyles said:
What is the text of your review?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.

They own the site so they're entitled to filter content as they see fit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

mike163 said:
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't disagree with anything you said, but it does fall out of their guidelines. It is more a complaint against Verizon than a review of the phone. Maybe the way to go about it is to rephrase it more like a product review. For example, instead of generalizing on limited apps to card, phrase it as your experience. Something like "unlike previous phones, the new android system didn't let me move as many apps to the external card. As a result, I find the 16 gb storage is filling up quickly." Then move to disappointed that Verizon doesn't have 32gb version.
Similarly you can mention that the device runs ok, and Samsung added a feature to turn off system apps in order to conserve battery and reduce clutter. But then move to however there is a lot of bloat that can't be turned off.
I'm not sure what to do with the rooting portion, maybe keep it as a final note rather than making that your main point. I would also add a starting statement of "I've used the phone for x days and here's my impression so far". That may be enough to qualify it to their standard.
Btw, you didn't mention the fact that Verizon disabled two of the main advertised features of the phone - download boost and finger print payments.

You must be maintain guidelines.. All time..

I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.

1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm debating going with you to be honest.

thewebsiteisdown said:
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
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Click to collapse
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).

SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html

thewebsiteisdown said:
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.

jmill75 said:
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?

thewebsiteisdown said:
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL

jmill75 said:
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.

SOCOM-HERO said:
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly thank you for summing it up for me.

VZW, and ATT, are required by law to allow you to network unlock the device, not boot loader unlock. The carrier covers warranty claims on the device, therefore it is in their interest to minimize the amount of damage "power users" can do to their devices
in my opinion, this trend of carriers locking bootloaders is the direct result of unscrupulous "modders" sending in for warranty or insurance claims after bricking their devices.
finally, we are by far the minority of smartphone users. a very very small percentage of Samsung, or the carriers, customer base and we DO have other options. the Nexus line, HTC with their unlockable bootloaders, GPE, and Dev edition devices.

/rant sorry
Russ77 said:
great input, thanks.
call it whatever you want, companies are in business to make money. if they're giving up profit margin due to fraudulent warranty claims on modified devices, they're well within their rights to sell locked devices.
was anyone here really surprised that the s5 is locked? really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much profit has been lost on this? $10k? $1 million? If you took the entire user base of XDA or any other tech forum and had all of them return broken phones, then you'd attention of a company like VZW. Otherwise, they don't care. They just want to pick a fight they can win easily and make the "modding" community look bad because 1% have not followed directions or are just plain dumb.
A) if you bring in a rooted device that is bricked, they won't even offer you a claim
B) How many people are dumb enough to spend hours on XDA and other sites following instructions and asking questions, only to just give up and go back to VZW/ATT with their bricked phone and say "Idk how this happened?"
Please. These companies aren't in business to make money, they are in business to advance an agenda for shareholders while raking in the money from consumers who have a rapidly disappearing range of options to consider. Cincinnati is a great recent example. Our local provider just got bought out by VZW and at the same time, laid off a decent chunk of staff to make way for the corporate shift. All the while, these same companies lie to the customer with their marketing fluff.
I am not an advocate for one carrier over another, as I have no vested interest in any one of them over another. However, I will say that T-Mo's "in your face" approach to their new marketing is quite polarizing to the rest of the status quo in the industry of "corporate bs doublespeak" where one day you have a contract for $99/mo unlimited everything, and the next, you are paying $130 with a data cap. (Which happens to be what happened to me).
If the PC industry was this way, we wouldn't have half the progress we have seen in the last 20 years. Instead, the PC industry (mac included) embraced unique user created content (hackers included) and actually employed some of those who were great at it to work for them. But, NO, not in the telecom industry. It is the most ridiculous double standard.
So yes, these companies can go shove it. I'm done here. I won't be getting an S5 or and HTC M8 at this point. I have analyzed the phones and neither one is getting the "ok" from me anyhow. I just think it is very interesting how much a company is willing to combat what the "android community," if you can even call it one, has become.
A bunch of polarizing, angry tech loving people who never agree on anything, myself included. Get me out of here. I'm done.

Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.

SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm from NKY and just switched from sprint to T-Mobile. I don't get LTE in NKY, and I haven't been to Cinci yet since the switch. That being said, my coverage has been pretty good and so long as I'm in anything resembling civilization I pretty much always get 4g (5-10Mbps). It's not all bad, and hopefully LTE is on the way, Unlimited data is nice, and I have JUMP, so being able to upgrade yearly is awesome as well.

1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They didn't take away unlimited, they basically forced you to opt out of that option in order to pay for contract price phones when you upgrade. I've never had the unlimited, so it's nothing I really bothered to complain about. I did however, end up doubling my coverage for the same price one day 2 years ago when I was on the My Verizon app, and noticed they were offering it. Of course they didn't bother to advertise it anywhere else though.
I will never lose Verizon. I know it sucks how freaking crazy they are locking everything, but there are Devs out there who always find a way. I can not simply give up the best coverage just for root. As much as it might suck one day, not being able to actually use your phone due to **** service would be even worse.
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------
k.electron said:
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung phones are superior to HTC. Not just my opinion, but basically backed up by facts. S5 has the best display on the market, hands down. Faster processor, better camera, better layout, better extras. The only thing the HTC has over the S5 is exterior speakers, but honestly, who even uses them that much? You're either listening to music on your headphones, or plugging the phone into better speakers anyways

[Q] (not) Unique Situation - Have 2 Galaxy S3 Verizon and Need Guidance

Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark

I really should say I'm surprised but in reality I'm not. Your right when you say they don't care because I've experienced it for myself and with my gf over the phone and my mom for that matter. The sad part is they are getting way too big for even themselves and like most companies don't have very good customer service. I'm unlocked as well and have never had issues with voice calls on this phone, only my first phone with a weird rom. It's not there business to ask you if you've installed a custom rom or not. I wouldn't even of answered the question myself.
Personally i would dump verizon if they treated me like that. I was in the store yesterday with my gf and she is a looooong time VZW customer. I'm taking 14 plus years and she went to best buy to get a phone because VZW doesn't know how to take care of customers at all.
It's a sad trend but the bigger the company the worse the customer service is
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP

mrbonine said:
Hi:
I started writing a thread the other day but stopped as it was full of drama and detail not important. This is what happened (when there is drama I will insert [D] with no detail so the context is maintained a bit.
I was minding my own business when one day last week my Samsung Galaxy G3 (I535) suddenly lost the ability to make/receive calls. I was on 4.1.2 and rooted, bootloader unlocked via ODIN. I thought I had loaded software that caused the problem. Couldn't resolve. Called Verizon [D] [D] to level 2, no problem, let me check a few things, OK, cool, do you have 2nd SIM? Yes! OK, it must be the phone, let's get you a replacement.. (Saturday, Phone arrives Tues).
New phone, powers up, no updates, authentication nightmare. Will not auth. Call Verizon...just wait a while?...OK.
Some hours later, authenticated. Very odd problems: charge isn't indicated on several chargers, then it is, then it isn't, charger independent? Keyboard exhibits over 1000 ms delay on press; unusable. Several other odd problems. Confused, I look online: Verizon Galaxy G3 4.4.2 update slow. First two hits happen to be Verizon's own "self-support" boards. All my symptoms and more. Lot's of Verizon's taking customers through the swamp looking for snipe. Reboot, Sim pull/insert, Factory Reset. Called Verizon back, hold times 4x previous call. Getting to Level 2 very difficult, CS rep actually states: "I know most of our phones and I haven't heard this set of problems". I refered him to Verizon's web site, grudingly sends me to Level 2. Extremely long hold time, and upon answer that group is not busy at all but relaxing talking together. Guy is grumpy, "Let me check something", back without hold in about 10 mins. "What ROM did you flash on the phone!?" first thing he said to me.
I've never flashed a ROM on any phone, for the record. I told him I knew what was and didn't do that. He insisted that he "couldn't read the software on the phone" [D] [D]!
I maintained polite, and focused on a solution, but he would not hear of that. I also offered to do a Factory Reset at least twice. "The Custom ROM will still be there after Factory Reset!" Perhaps, but then that would prove what I did and didn't do, maybe? Finally, I told him that I was very tired, and we weren't solving anything. Could I have an problem ticket number or incident number for reference. "We don't use those anymore". "You can have my employee ID and my phone number." Sorry if this is not PC, but it felt like a rapist giving his victim his contact information, should victim want to be in touch. I said, no, I'll just call back.
Immediately upon termination the new phone (replacement) displayed "Safe Mode" no apps, and the inabilty to unselect "screen mirroring" a new feature to me, but now turned on. I pull the SIM and factory reset, even though I had loaded many apps back (Inclulding Towelroot, which I had found and implemented). Although no idication of root before, the phone showed rooted and customer or modified, I don't remember the fields. Next day called back, long holds, CS OK, everyone had read Level 2 notes. Sent me up to Level 2. Long hold time, over 30 minutes. Cold response. I asked why the replacement of a non-functioning device had branched into, after receiving said device, two separate issues, to me it was one, getting my service back. Cold, "what do you want us to do?" Not knowing, I said, "I don't know, I just want the phone to work". Finally he went to talk to the boss, came back at 0 deg. Kelvin, through clenched teeth: You can take your phone to Best Buy, they will flash it back (I presumed to 4.1.2), after factory reboot and confirm no....[D] Thanks, I terminated.
At this point I had no working phone for several days, and I felt very upset about the entire situation, especially how I'd been treated by the last two guys. The first after the replacement was so out of line he should have been sanctioned, and an appology directed at me by manager, unless....
This is what they intended to happen. Because the OTA updates hadn't taken, perhaps, they disabled the G3 connection on the device (and it was unprovisioned on their server), knew this would lead to the likely steps above, and were so intent on getting me under their control with 4.4.2 (which I knew nothing about, in terms of root, etc), they had manipulated me to 4.4.2? I am a long time customer with unlimited data, a withdrawn discount, and paying over $200 for two lines with shared limited minutes and txt. No contract.
Whatever the case I still have my 4.1.2 G3 (no voice) and the 4.4.2 replacement. Obviously, I cannot consider staying at Verizon (likely what they want, apparently). Which do I keep? How do I prep the other for return to them? Know any good class action attorney? Obviously, Verizon is too big to care about me and, like so many huge corporations, no one dares attempt to regulate them.
Thanks for any advice. For infomormation on any technical steps to support the above paragraph, please simply refer me to the thread or post and I'll take it from there. I am not super technical, and had to re-do the original ODIN process about 3 times before it took, so any existing process instructions targeted at the Stupid User level would be appropriate and very much appreciated.
Sorry this is so long, I honestly left out a few calls because it just dawned on me, after I called V back today to figure out next steps, the guy listened (read the notes), said I was very poorly handled, I deserved better, would go talk to manager, be right back, 20 minutes later, manager still busy, can he call me back? Sure, gave info. Not a single call or attempt. That was the "It's not us, it's you response" but made to sound the other way round. Apparently they want me to walk away with a useless device, and since it's old and I'm not under contract, but love the phone, I can't understand why they would destroy my property and tell me to f-off, other than they feel like it.
If this sounds like paranoia, you might be surprised what big companies will do to you if they can. And so far, I'm the only one harmed, since they probably expected me to stop days ago. In any event, I have to send back a phone to them and hopefully keep one that works somewhere else. Please help me with the steps I need to take.
If you like history, or want to see how the big guys got a stranglehold on the US after the Civil War, then were forced back into decency by Teddy Roosevelt, W. Wilson, and FDR check out the Roosevelt 7 part documentrary recently appearing on PBS. I'm up to Episode 4, and already knew much of the story, but the detailed focus on their private and public lives and how they matured and developed is moving, enlightening, and awe-inspiring.
Thank You in Advance,
Mark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app

XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP

ShapesBlue said:
Speaking of verizon and apps. My gf when she was on the phone was told by a rep that she had updated an app the previous day through Google play. Talk about sketchy! Yea I remember when the verizon app requested root permissions on my phone, that was it for verizon apps for me
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app

XdrummerXboy said:
Wow, that takes things to a whole new level....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP

ShapesBlue said:
Your telling me. She's not rooted or unlocked though but that's still messed up. She got her shiny new S5 yesterday, looks nice
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app

XdrummerXboy said:
Hmm.. I wonder how they knew that then
Nice! I wanted the S5 or Note4, but I'll be hanging onto the S3 for another year. I can't justify buying one when I have a baby on the way
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear that. I have mine until June next year. Not quite sure what I'm doing just yet. The Super power saving mode is quite a nice feature. It basically disables all apps but the essential ones. The battery life then goes way over a day plus on the S5
From my Wicked S3 on SOKP

Et tu Verizon
Thanks for the info. I did have the MyVerizon app installed, I believe. I don't remember it requesting root, but I sometimes click through those things without paying too much attention (since I'm fairly careful about what goes on the phone); the reason I install software requiring root is to access it (circular, I know) so, they are doing what they must to run. I appreciate the suggestions about other call centers, etc. I do have the contact information from the single most helpful and polite (funny how that goes together) person I talked to through this debacle. I'll drop him a quick note, but really, since they never even bothered to call back, it's clear to me that they want me to leave. Paying over $200 per month to be treated like crap is not something I could ever do. They are big, very profitable, and don't care about anything but extracting cash from people under contract, or too complacent to leave (I'm in the 2nd category until now). Being in a codependent relationship with Verizon is not only self-defeating, but irrational. Until we have some politicians owned by the people instead of corporations we have no chance of reigning these folks in. Sure, they employ lot's of people, but an army of good people working against the best interest of everyone is not good, it's an uncontrollable menace: just look at the banks that gambled with people's homes, lost their bets, then collateralized them when the bottom fell out of their own septic tank of greed. The entire world economy hit an air pocket, but we're still letting the same greed intoxicated pilots fly. My only regret is believing their lies as long as I did. I deserve better, and it's won't be particularly hard to find it. Since the 4.4.3 G3 (nor the 4.1.2 for that matter) are particularly compatible with the GSM carriers, and Samsung is the lookout for the felonious Verizon, I'll probably get a Nexus 5. I think the G5 is better for several reasons, but that's too bad. All of the tech and marketing in the world will not make me "grateful" to manufacturers or carriers that somehow feel controlling how you use the equipment you buy from them is somehow acceptable. The money Verizon cares about is the corporate contracts, since they can manage that process much better, the revenue is less volatile, and they don't have to take calls from subscribers, wasting the money that could be spent on acquisitions, and expanding their market oligarchy. Public utilities create natural monopolies. There are not 2 sets of power lines, or water lines, or sewers running into your home. And the idea that competition from fiber will for improvements from Comcast is false, prices may move, but service will not get better. Only when barriers of entry are low can new competitors help drive down the price of entrenched utilities. We could all create our own mobile system on meshes of unlicensed 5.0 Gig or other spectrum, but it would be very costly to do that and linking this metropolitan radio webs would be tricky. But probably, someone is already working on that. Ask a HAM radio enthusiast about how they handle phone calls over shortwave. They have licenses, yes, but the technology to connect 2-way voice wireless signals to PSTN phone calls has been around for many years. Big corporations exact huge profits and drag down anyone that needs the services, the trick is to find creative ways around them, most importantly by thinking outside of the feature/function cage they've placed around us. Soon, you'll be able to buy just the cable channels you want, perhaps. I have hundreds and I generally watch less than 10.
The accusation flung at me by the enraged employee is little more that hot air. It reflects a corporate culture of mendacity and blame. My fault was to allow him to take control of the conversation, for a millisecond. Whatever I've done to the software on the phone (which, as you noted, was not a ROM change) it's still my phone and not theirs. They don't even provide the "insurance" to replace the failed device, a third party does. I didn't stop my phone from working to get a new phone. Had the replacement worked as well or better as the one it replaced I would have been happy. Now, I'm going over a week with no phone and they will never get paid for that week. The longer it takes to resolve, the less on my final bill, which will be coming up soon. When folks have experiences like this it's best to communicate the problem to the FCC (as if they cared) and their state PUC. Not that they will do anything about it, but it's important to remember they have a duty to regulate whether this group of appointees cares or not. The only thing that affects Verizon is withdrawing my monthly gratuity and when that happens because of abuse, manipulation, and possible fraud, the regulators need to be informed, if only so they can't say they didn't know.
Thanks for the reminder that they have no business asking questions about rooted phones or ROMS. That lingering guilt that one may have done something Daddy Verizon doesn't approve of is there, for sure, but since what I was accused of I didn't do, it was easier to just say, no, I didn't do that.....when I offered to factory reset TWICE during the call and he pretended not to hear me I realized it was all just a manipulative game played by a bully. No, no lunch money for you today, dude. I think they actually hire volatile people and use them as scarecrows. If Verizon didn't want their customers to be exposed to abuse, they'd fire these guys. The second guy was so cold, trying to do the right thing, but hating it. If you've ever been to a time-share presentation and not purchased one, you are familiar with this game. It's not only wrong, but it reflects how truly manipulative and immoral the employers are, they are paying the guy to be insulting, intimidating, and thuggish. So many large companies act this way, it's amazing we let them get away with it. The only way to stop it is to stop paying them and tell them why. I worked in a small hardware store in a small town 30+ years ago. Even when customers were trying some trick, like returning something they didn't buy from us, or a more elaborate ruse (I'll bring the old stuff back tomorrow......), I just explained how it worked and enforced the process; I never shouted, "You are so busted...." These were customers, some making honest errors, some trying to take advantage, but there were none I didn't want to come back again, because it would be bad for business and likely make an enemy. After I leave Verizon I will never give them another dime ever, and I think they honestly don't believe that.
XdrummerXboy said:
I don't really have any info to help you, so I apologize for that.
But out of curiosity, do you have the MyVerizon app (or whatever the name is) installed?
At one point the app requested root permission, which is EXTREMELY sketchy in my opinion. I wonder if you grant it, or even deny it (if they can detect the denial) if they ASSUMED that you installed a custom ROM, because a lot of those that root also install custom ROMs.
Maybe just try at a different time of day to maybe get a call center in a different state or country?
That is extremely unprofessional on their part though...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse