Database Info

How safe are custom roms to use?

I was wondering if anyone knows a real answer for this. How easy would it be to cook in something that would send back your email login and password? Or other logins to stuff like banking sites. The people who make the roms seem to be hard working enthusiasts, but it still makes me nervous.
The reason I am asking this is because WM6.1 seems pretty buggy and slow and I was hoping that maybe updating to 6.5 would help, however Sprint is being super slow and vague (as usual) about if they will ever release an official rom.
And please no "then just don't use custom roms" replies. I am just hoping someone has some way to show that they are safe and then I will happily use it!

I was wondering the same thing. I don't use any cooked rom for anything banking related for this possible risk.

I know there are other threads that have the answer but can't find them maybe someone hid them?
Anyway what would the average chef gain, second of all how do you know a member of Opera or IE is not taking down your details or even Bill? "by that i mean there is more to worry about"
My point being chefs cook ROMs to give users better phones than stocks... Also the world of WM isn't laden with virus's/spyware so even doing so would be hard and no one would be bothered to spend there time considering how much time cooking consumes.
Just Hard-SPL your device and start flashing

I find cooked roms are the best! They are tweeked, customized, optimized, flexable, etc. Happy Flashing

Im still leary. Im going to wait until you all flash...then i will know its safe

If any chef here did anything as dumb as that, I guarantee you everyone would know in VERY short order what was done, and that chef would be hung up by his ankles and verbally flogged by everyone here.
Trust me, it's never happened here, and it's not GOING to happen; because we have a great community here with great chefs who do nothing but make life better for everyone else. Choose a ROM, flash it, and quit being so paranoid.

FloatingFatMan said:
If any chef here did anything as dumb as that, I guarantee you everyone would know in VERY short order what was done, and that chef would be hung up by his ankles and verbally flogged by everyone here.
Trust me, it's never happened here, and it's not GOING to happen; because we have a great community here with great chefs who do nothing but make life better for everyone else. Choose a ROM, flash it, and quit being so paranoid.
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That is a very argumentative answer to a very simple and valid concern that allwires has regarding the security of using cooked rom's. Some people that use these rom's like to use their device's web capabilities for banking and for storing personal information and he brings up a very valid question regarding the safety of using these rom's for these purposes. Then you insult the poster by saying he or she is being paranoid when we all know that the capabilities for wrong doing via viruses and other malicious software are very valid concerns in this day and age. I would like to hear an intelligent and informative answer to this question since I'm sure as this sort of thing becomes more mainstream as it is bound through time to become there will be many more inquiries made as to the safety of their usage.

I'm with FloatingFatMan here, any cook daft enough to do such a thing to a ROM would very quickly be found by his peers, tried, convicted and summarily thrown to the lions.
For all that how do we know Messrs Gates, Jobs, well their minions anyway , and other sundry "professional" ROM cooks are not hiding sneaky payloads in?

deedee said:
I'm with FloatingFatMan here, any cook daft enough to do such a thing to a ROM would very quickly be found by his peers, tried, convicted and summarily thrown to the lions.
For all that how do we know Messrs Gates, Jobs, well their minions anyway , and other sundry "professional" ROM cooks are not hiding sneaky payloads in?
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Well, but you see that is my point exactly. Whether it is the big guy or the small guy doing it history has shown that where there is a will there is a way, especially when there is a profit to be made. Its like when Norton got busted for spyware found in their AV software in the early 2000's, remember that? I just wonder if such an attempt will be made with this newly emerging technology that is similar to the PC of the late 90's and the early 2000's, vulnerable. No one is offering (at least no one that I'm aware of) AV or firewall software for these various mobile OS's and I think that it is only a matter of time before the bad guys find a way to take advantage of these opportunities the same way they did the PC. Al least over time there became ways to detect these types of illegal practices with firewall software and packet capture software that made the average user capable of some control over his or her personal data.

qqa92 said:
Well, but you see that is my point exactly. Whether it is the big guy or the small guy doing it history has shown that where there is a will there is a way, especially when there is a profit to be made. Its like when Norton got busted for spyware found in their AV software in the early 2000's, remember that? I just wonder if such an attempt will be made with this newly emerging technology that is similar to the PC of the late 90's and the early 2000's, vulnerable. No one is offering (at least no one that I'm aware of) AV or firewall software for these various mobile OS's and I think that it is only a matter of time before the bad guys find a way to take advantage of these opportunities the same way they did the PC. Al least over time there became ways to detect these types of illegal practices with firewall software and packet capture software that made the average user capable of some control over his or her personal data.
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Hey There,
Not wanting to be unkind but i think you are being very paranoid here and btw, you can indeed purchase AV software for mobile devices; youve only gotta google AV software for windows mobile to see that
The limited OS and how its written means the "baddies" would have nothing to gain/find it difficult to exploit so whats the point.
The only "virus" (and i use the term loosely) i ever came across actually asked you "do you want to install blah blah blah" to which the obvious answer was no.............oooo that was dangerous
To summerise, dont get your knickers in a twist about it and enjoy!

^^ And to add to Tim's comments. Just make sure you get your cooked ROM from an established chef if you're worried, and there won't be any problems.
Now, if the ROM was from someone with a tiny postcount and wasn't known, then you might have cause to think twice; but that's not going to happen here...

timmymarsh said:
Hey There,
Not wanting to be unkind but i think you are being very paranoid here and btw, you can indeed purchase AV software for mobile devices; youve only gotta google AV software for windows mobile to see that
The limited OS and how its written means the "baddies" would have nothing to gain/find it difficult to exploit so whats the point.
The only "virus" (and i use the term loosely) i ever came across actually asked you "do you want to install blah blah blah" to which the obvious answer was no.............oooo that was dangerous
To summerise, dont get your knickers in a twist about it and enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then why not let the cat out of the bag. I'm just in here to see if I can get a large portion of the members in here's knickers in a twist so that they will all go out and buy my mobile AV since mine is the biggest one out there currently. Lots of potential there, in terms of cha-ching you have to agree. LOL!

There's also the option of downloading a kitchen and cooking your own ROM ... this method permits you to look at each package in detail.
Cheers,

I once opened my yahoo on a cooked room, later on I was trying to log on on my laptop and password was rejected. I freaked out and kept trying, later that day I was able to log in after few hours for some unknown reason...
I stopped using my HTC fuze for emails since.
The myth that ALL cooked ROMs in here are completely clean sounds like an old familiar story of when the young man said to the girl "don't worry it will not hurt a bit" lol
I wish there was a tool that scans for such security gaps in a ROM

I'm not sure what your reasoningn was to stop using email on the phone because of a failure to login to yahoo from a laptop. Did you notice any malicious activity on your yahoo account? Have you since? Have you changed that password? Just seems strange.
As for the security of cooked ROMS, I've never used one but I have a new phone coming and I'm going to try one from a reputable party here. I'm not nervous about it and I use online banking all the time. Here is why I am not concerned:
1.) As several people pointed out already, your PC is more vulnerable just because of sheer numbers. WinMo has a small market share and cooked ROMs would represent an even smaller market share. Even then, there are many custom ROMs to choose from. Then if EVERY user of a specific tainted ROM used their online banking on their phones, there is still little they could actually do with that information. For example, chase uses text messaging which means yes, someone could get my balance and stuff, but I actually have to login to the site to authorize my phone rather than login through the phone. So the information itself may or may not be useful. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make the chef much money since there would simply be too few potential victims.
2.) The liklihood is very high that the perp would be caught by their peers and exposed in order to 1 - protect their own integrity, and 2 - get bonus points for being the one who exposed the bad guy (or girl). When you add this level of risk to the low reward, it just doesn't make sense. High risk, lots of work, little reward.
3.) Then of course, if someone fraudulently accesses your account, you can usually get that money back.
So I'm perfectly comfortable froma security standpoint. It's the stability standpoint I'm a bit concerned about but that's why I'm waiting till I get my new phone to try one out so I can go back to my old phone if it all craps out.

RedScorpion78 said:
I once opened my yahoo on a cooked room, later on I was trying to log on on my laptop and password was rejected. I freaked out and kept trying, later that day I was able to log in after few hours for some unknown reason...
I stopped using my HTC fuze for emails since.
The myth that ALL cooked ROMs in here are completely clean sounds like an old familiar story of when the young man said to the girl "don't worry it will not hurt a bit" lol
I wish there was a tool that scans for such security gaps in a ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing and how much it would cost to have Lavasoft or AVG or Symantec evaluate ROMs as an impartial third party.
If anybody is thinking peer review would snuff out cheaters there are plenty cases where Ebay and Craigslist deals go bad and everybody is in on it - even (inadvertently) the local police authority that doesn't have the technical knowhow to deal with a cyber-based threat.

startluvova said:
I was thinking the same thing and how much it would cost to have Lavasoft or AVG or Symantec evaluate ROMs as an impartial third party.
If anybody is thinking peer review would snuff out cheaters there are plenty cases where Ebay and Craigslist deals go bad and everybody is in on it - even (inadvertently) the local police authority that doesn't have the technical knowhow to deal with a cyber-based threat.
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Hey there,
Way to go to ressurect an old thread
Nothing has changed, i have never heard of seen of a custom rom that has a virus cooked in, or one that has been intentionally created to spy on the user.
That said, i guess you have to make your own decision after reading the comments from some experienced chefs/flashers here
CHeers.

Privacy Concerns - Google Firmware

I am concerned that Google has their tentacles all throughout the OS, and I want to take all measures to stop that. I particularly don't like their search query tracking (I use ixquick) and their nav app, as their privacy policies are atrocious.
Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious.
Of course I'll not be using the apps of that-search-engine-everybody-uses. Removing them forthwith, in favor of whatever GPL open-source apps there are available for various functions. Using self-contained nav software like CoPilot or TomTom.
So, have any devs investigated whether Android phones home at any interval? Have measures been taken to privacy-enable the Android firmware?
I hear that HTC has some sort of 'phone home' function. How to neuter that?
What good is Wifi? Is it that you can use that when available, not using up 3G bytes? I am asking what use it is on a mobile in consideration of mobility and the security problems -- what uses can this be put to, and how to secure the phone?
Where is the best place to find open-source apps?

I'm curious about this as well, not so much from a privacy standpoint, but how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.

http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem? And actually Google apps aren't in the Android sources, so you won't have them after compiling. Yeah, two birds with one stone.
Also you could disable WiFi if you don't like it.
Tachikoma_kun said:
how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr... what ROM and how many apps do you have installed? There is no "mysterious data" on clean system, but 25% of apps use data connection for various reasons.

I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.

The background syncing does not turn anything off as far as I know.
To my knowledge it allows 3rd party apps the ability to check if the user has flagged this, but they do not have to respect this flag.

Tachikoma_kun said:
I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.

Brut.all said:
http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem?
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Click to collapse
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.

Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
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i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
IMO it's anonymous user data.... let them build cybernet
otherwise say no to the T.O.S that is your constitutional right if you have "privacy" concerns

Brut.all said:
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will give that a try.

themapleboy said:
i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
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Click to collapse
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.

Brut.all said:
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.
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Click to collapse
u know what they say about assuming...... it always makes you look like a jackass

Yeah, I mean we're not playing with iOS4 or anything.
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
If you're still concerned, I suppose you could always opt not to install the Google Apps, but you'd be a bit limited, functionality-wise.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App

themapleboy said:
let them build cybernet
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Click to collapse
O' little do you know... many years ago I did work in Eastern Europe. You have no idea the paranoia a society can endure. For an idea, watch the old TV series Danger Man. Or the movie 1984.
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
herald83 said:
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
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Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?

I smell a rat...
Quantumstate said:
...Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 52yo real estate developer, whose not a coder, but used to be a "cracker" and knows what is possible? Anyone else here think this doesn't make a bit of sense?
It's funny, but it sounds like someone is trying to stir up some FUD by making claims that Android is somehow doing an "All your data are belong to us...". I hope Apple aren't paying your cheques!

@perpetualmotionuk: Be advised that there is a difference between mathematics and decryption, and coding. Yes I can do some coding, but not at a level necessary to analyze and modify an operating system.
If Apple were paying my 'cheques', wouldn't I come in with some sort of proof that monitoring is taking place? Rather than asking what others have found?
Now, rather than trying to tear people down, why don't you use that considerable nose to investigate this yourself?

No one's seen anything about info leakage?

Quantumstate said:
Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of that data is pulled from search history, I suspect. Which you can disable, if I recall. Don't have my phone on me at the moment to confirm.

I just did a very simple test on an emulator: after ~15 minutes of running system there was 0 (zero, null) of network packets. Now I want to do the same on a device with clean system, but I think results will be the same or similar (SDK system is just normal Android - very similar to these from devices).
I have a feeling that even if I will catch zero packets as well, you will be asking whether Google send something mysterious through... errr... bluetooth? Some hidden antenna?

If you're worried about Google tracking your info...root the phone and don't install the Google apps. What do ya know...problem solved.
If you're still worried that people are tracking what you are doing see steps below.
1) Flush phone or give to a homeless guy to throw them off.
2) Destroy Computers.
3) Liquidate everything you own.
4) Walk into the woods and live off the land.
5) Kill self shortly after because they already have a file on you.
You say you're a 52 year old real estate developer...guess what...they're already tracking you. You're already helping to build "cybernet" just by living and breathing.
And if you are really worried about your "220 year old Constitutional Rights" then go read the Patriot Act and discover that you don't have ****.
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.

I'm not an English person, excuse for the syntax/grammar/... mistakes I'd could make.
hedjemunkee said:
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.
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I don't understand WHY this person could be considered as "an absolute idiot" by ASKING if some 'data' are sent over the network through the phone.
Facebook, with it's ad system is sending information for each ad displayed (not alot, but still some !)....
ADS.GOOGLE do you have any idea about what's behind !?
I don't have the number (nobody have it) of webpages using it but it's huge. with this you can track navigation of people, establish profiles, link to a physical person. Without your consent.
I understand the concern of the "OP" here. I don't think the data sent are easy to "catch", or are systematically sent... maybe there is no, and you are paranoid. But it "COULD". So easily. I'm from the young tech generation.
And to quote
Quantumstate said:
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
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Click to collapse
People who don't ask themselve the question, or wich refuse to be open minded enough to consider the right to ask this question ... could be surprised very soon. I'm not directly affraid of "google". I'm affraid of those 'blind' people.
You'll be dead in less than 10years !? I hope we can share some of the darkness you're talking about. your parent's generation started it, you continued it.
Anyway, back to the topic.
Why in my pocess list i've : (app id number) com.ap.SnapPhoto:remote
even when I do not use the camera !?
...when I notice my battery is being used more than usual I check the process list and I find this...
What's this "remote" !?
Maybe "remote" refers to "another app wich launch this app"... ? Otherwise... wow.

Thanks XDA for all your help.

Linky to story
Wow, so we help HTC get to the place they are today (and don't underestimate our contribution) and this is the thanks.
Glad I'm getting a Dell in 2 months.
(Please tell me I misunderstand!)
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.

for some reason i feel the opposite towards this.
I am glad that they put a hardware chip that can bring the phone back to factory default settings. They probably did this because so many people had bricked their phones with no real way to get them back up and running so they had to send them in.... This way it should eliminate that whole process....
why this is good?
It will be cracked, and will give modders room to store custom roms or clockwork recovery on this... or.....
A MOD CHIP!!!! imagine a small mod chip that could enable or disable the chip. You muck up your phone, hit the switch... go back to factory defaults.

Reminds me of the old Playstations where I had to go get them chipped to be modded.

First off it was a pretty good read. Personally I would take this as yet another reason to keep up the awesome work done by the fine programmers here on XDA! Give them something else to "access & modify".
All in all, I never got the feeling of "eff off". But then again, that was just me.

What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?
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Click to collapse
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.

digibucc said:
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
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Click to collapse
Actually you can. You may not be allowed to take it on public roads, but you can do whatever you want with your car on private property as long as it dosent cause injury or damage to others property or other mischief.
digibucc said:
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
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And why should people sit back silently if they dont agree with this? Why should they be able to advertise the good features of the device without anyone mentioning the significant drawbacks?
digibucc said:
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.
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At the moment You CAN do whatever you want with YOUR posessions as long as it does not cause harm or injury to other persons or property. There is no excuse for treating these devices differently. If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it?
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Click to collapse
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?

deathsled said:
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?
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OK -
so first, where did I say I was never interested in this phone? If you care to take a look at my posting history you will see I'm desperate for a phone with a keyboard. (ROM issue aside) I did take a look at this phone but the screen is just a little too small for me and I just don't personaly like Android. If this is your ONLY argument, then you know you really have no argument - move along please, nothing to see here.
Second, you seem to be missing the grand picture. You see all those subforums for each phone right? Pay particular attention to the "ROMs" subforums for EACH phone.... delete them. IF I understand this correctly, none of the new phones (assuming they all employ this) will have cooked ROMs. Why do you think most of us are here? Thats right, because HTC ROMs out of the box are crap... cooked ROMs have certainly saved my use of HTC phones and to be honest, are one of the priamary reasons I would buy a HTC phone (and have!).
Third, if you had any idea what I was talking about you would know that this is not so much about the "phone" itself but the very fact that cooked ROMs will no longer be possible. If it was about the phone, I would have posted it in the G2 section.
So in summary, (and this might be hard for you) please, try to focus on the new "feature" of the phone rather than the phone itself. Also, try to stop assuming facts like I was never going to buy this phone and really, if this is the best discussion point you can bring, please use the "unsubscribe" option - do us all a favour.

Monty Burns said:
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Death, I'll take your lack of acknowlegdment or response to this post as an appology.
No problem, its OK.

hungry81 said:
If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you, have to?
I don't "feel" it is illegal. I don't believe it is wrong - but they have the legal right to tell me it is. that doesn't mean i won't do it anyway - I just don't lie to myself and say it is allowed... even if I believe that it should be.
there's a difference between recognizing the law and following it. I'm not saying I don't agree, that it sucks that they will lock out ROMs. BUT - I've got my Evo and it will last me for years, so i really don't care.
it's called reality. I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong - i'm highlighting that it is just your opinion, and in this world they don't mean much.
tell you what though - you go ahead and organize the rally and once you get more than 1,000 people signed up i'll join.
let me know.

Monty Burns said:
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mr Anon,
I must have missed the bit where I swore....? I remember putting a few **'s in... oh wait, I wasn't swearing there, just pointing out that I used **'s.... er.... um.... oh dear. They are used much like Beeps on tv....
Whatever, its only a forum, gues must be the end of the world to lose access for "beeps"

[Q] The iphone is really tracking location?

So incase you haven't heard:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-apple-tracking-20110421,0,4880695.story
Like, wtf. This really rather freaks me out.
A. I have an iPhone 3gs (jailbroken)
B. What if my Xoom is doing the same thing?
Are there ways to make sure this is definately not going on for the more average consumer like me? I wouldn't know where to look in os files for this. I could find the os files, but I don't really go snooping in them because I don't know what I'm doing.
But I think all this is bull**** with Apple, and last month with samsung computers. I'm pissed.

What does this have to do with the Xoom?

......?
Sent from a Limited Edition phone from a Premium app..

ggareis said:
What does this have to do with the Xoom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He asked if his xoom is doing the same thing.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

I would put money on it that the all Android devices keep track of location, Google lives off statistics, no way tehy don't know everything about everything you do with the thing.
I did some reading into this and the bit I don't get is that cell location isnt very accurate, so did the guy who "visualised" his data there just keep GPS on _all-the-time_? That's a colossal waste of battery.

I saw this article on many a site last night - and one of them I am sure said that 'android devices haven't found any similar file storing location' or words to that affect.
(think they mentioned WinPho too)
while google do live off stats - do they care that much? they already have a map of where activations happened - they did a map of the North US activations awhile back?

Lothaen said:
I saw this article on many a site last night - and one of them I am sure said that 'android devices haven't found any similar file storing location' or words to that affect.
(think they mentioned WinPho too)
while google do live off stats - do they care that much? they already have a map of where activations happened - they did a map of the North US activations awhile back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't doubt it, I just bet they do it and store the information at their end rather than on the phone. What with all the wifi hotspot privacy problems that have been going on with them and eerything else. I'd expect nothing less from them really.

just more careful then
it doesnt bother me that much (at the moment) as I'm pretty sure my network will also keep track of me anyway
unless google/o2 are going to find my house and rob it while i am out - that doesn't bother me - it's only if someone else found a way to see live my location and then did the above that i'd start being more concerned... or is there something else I should worry about?

alias_neo said:
I would put money on it that the all Android devices keep track of location, Google lives off statistics, no way they don't know everything about everything you do with the thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quote of the day, bang on the money.

ggareis said:
What does this have to do with the Xoom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, hey, sorry, listen.... I hadnt realized the Xoom police were out. Sorry this wasnt completely understandable for you.
I mean, I can see how some people think that if Google is logging our locations, it might not be a big deal. But this is all just a glimpse at whats coming. I mean I have no idea what that is. But a future where the biggest corporations are tracking people that use there products does not seem like a future I want to be apart of.
Apple gets their customers out of addiction, "the iphone is tracking me? who cares, its pretty." Like there is no logical reason I can think of to have that tracking software built into the nitty gritty of ios, and it being there is just a big slap to the consumers. We already have to worry about apps st but now the os?
Its not like I go or do anything suspicious that I should be worried. It's just that I spent damn near 900 dollars on this device, I don't want it to ****ing track me. Also, I'm sure that would use some sort of data to transfer the data, and with everyones love for only having tiered data plans for tablets, I am paying for them to do this.
Even if it is kilobytes, and I'm only paying a hay penny, thats one hey penny to much for my liking. Us as consumers get the **** end of every stick. They sell us items, bootlock them, track us, apps steal and sell our data, sue us if we post something they don't like (the ps3 guy), just an all around **** you.
I was reading this article the other day on how they're a step closer to building quantum computers. Now what happens when they have computers that can take all the data from every device, and compile it into useful information that will be more personal than your facebook?
They could potentially have what we posted on fb, next to a location we were at, along with the song we were hearing at the time. And in the iphones case, a picture takin from facetime to go right along with it, and for all I know, the xoom is taking pictures of me right now considering its on its stand and im sitting right in front of it typing.
I guess there would be no way for me to tell, since I'm pretty much just an end user, but I hope someone investigates this for us. Because if it turns out the Xoom does anything of the sort I will be getting rid of it. As I have already decided to do with my iphone. It's not about what theyre doing with it. Its about why they decided to do it in the first place, and the fact that they're all data whores.

RadDudeTommy said:
Oh, hey, sorry, listen.... I hadnt realized the Xoom police were out. Sorry this wasnt completely understandable for you.
I mean, I can see how some people think that if Google is logging our locations, it might not be a big deal. But this is all just a glimpse at whats coming. I mean I have no idea what that is. But a future where the biggest corporations are tracking people that use there products does not seem like a future I want to be apart of.
Apple gets their customers out of addiction, "the iphone is tracking me? who cares, its pretty." Like there is no logical reason I can think of to have that tracking software built into the nitty gritty of ios, and it being there is just a big slap to the consumers. We already have to worry about apps st but now the os?
Its not like I go or do anything suspicious that I should be worried. It's just that I spent damn near 900 dollars on this device, I don't want it to ****ing track me. Also, I'm sure that would use some sort of data to transfer the data, and with everyones love for only having tiered data plans for tablets, I am paying for them to do this.
Even if it is kilobytes, and I'm only paying a hay penny, thats one hey penny to much for my liking. Us as consumers get the **** end of every stick. They sell us items, bootlock them, track us, apps steal and sell our data, sue us if we post something they don't like (the ps3 guy), just an all around **** you.
I was reading this article the other day on how they're a step closer to building quantum computers. Now what happens when they have computers that can take all the data from every device, and compile it into useful information that will be more personal than your facebook?
They could potentially have what we posted on fb, next to a location we were at, along with the song we were hearing at the time. And in the iphones case, a picture takin from facetime to go right along with it, and for all I know, the xoom is taking pictures of me right now considering its on its stand and im sitting right in front of it typing.
I guess there would be no way for me to tell, since I'm pretty much just an end user, but I hope someone investigates this for us. Because if it turns out the Xoom does anything of the sort I will be getting rid of it. As I have already decided to do with my iphone. It's not about what theyre doing with it. Its about why they decided to do it in the first place, and the fact that they're all data whores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we better put on our tin hats!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I believe this is a valid question. Companies like google, apple, and facebook have a strong interest in tracking what we do, what we buy, etc to make their advertising more effective, which means they can charge more for it. Unfortunatly, I think this boat sailed long ago. Even on a PC they can track your IP address or Mac address. The minute you get on the internet you are sending information about yourself. Its that simple. The issue becomes whether companies are, can or should be storing that data. And why are they storing that data. Again most of it is advertising, but it could be used for other things that might not be so innocent. Even the government would have an interest in companies storing data so they can retrive that infor for criminal prosectutions, etc. Now if you want to prove where you were they can call your cell phone provider and just ask.
I think the shock is that it is happening all the time by even the most admired companies like apple. Short of a major rebellion by consumers or government regulation (like Europe has done) this will continue (see the case against Google for 'accidentally' collecting data from wifi networks while they did their street view stuff).
Sometimes technology can suck.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

For a second I thought I had made the horrible mistake of going into an iphone forum...
Anyway, I think Google is for sure collecting data on all of us! Personally I don't really care if they know where I am unless one day I rob a bank and need to go into hiding.....................

robbiev80 said:
For a second I thought I had made the horrible mistake of going into an iphone forum...
Anyway, I think Google is for sure collecting data on all of us! Personally I don't really care if they know where I am unless one day I rob a bank and need to go into hiding.....................
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In that case, when robbing a bank just leave your xoom and phone at home ?

Carrier IQ tracks Samsung Epics on sprint.

Uhm if u notice the first time u turn on any new android device it has something about sharing ur data with google servers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App

OneStepAhead said:
we better put on our tin hats!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the joke however I dont think its farfetched.

There is one difference though ...
Honeycomb will eventually be open source as well as many devices such as my Galaxy S now have the source made available. Openess gives you that ...
Apple for all we know logs our bank transactions, send favourable posts to Apple fanboy sites and SMSs our girlfriends on our behalf.
Don't get me wrong, Android devices are just as capable of doing all the wrong things, but an open device gives you a little more comfort.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/i-spy-apple-google-phones-track-users/
it's confirmed, google is doing it too, but in an even more obtrusive way, **** this, i'm selling my Xoom.

RadDudeTommy said:
http://investmentwatchblog.com/i-spy-apple-google-phones-track-users/
it's confirmed, google is doing it too, but in an even more obtrusive way, **** this, i'm selling my Xoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am selling my Captivate and Xoom and getting a Jitterbug.

AT&T rep: "Your GS4 is slow because you did not activate it properly."

Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.

It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One

MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Funniest post so far today...

Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.

I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..

Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.

atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.

geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.

raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Click to expand...
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.

mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.

No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.

geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.

mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people

MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding

geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!