An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be told if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
oover the phone to who?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
You will have to call T-Mobile to get S-OFF. Also I was told it wold be in about a month, the same time as the EVO 3D
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
No offense, but one thing I've learned, reps don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
sakuul said:
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be to if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
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Click to collapse
if this is true then this sucks...i wouldn't want to void my warranty for this.
Well this sucks. Hard.
Just have to wait and see, I read elsewhere where the s-off would not void your warranty, but flashing a custom ROM would.
Did the Rep say when the unlock for the bootloader would be available?
About a month. It's in the third post
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Now usually with any phone I wouldn't think twice...I would do this immediately.
BUT, since I've already returned one Sensation for problems, I do not want to risk voiding my warranty (in case I need it in the future for dust under the screen or something).
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
It makes sense that they'd want to get people to agree to it before they give s-off, that skirts U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how T-Mobile is going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning. I'll go buy a Nexus S, and deal with the lower res screen, slower processor, less ram, no memory expansion, pathetic build quality, and a screen I don't like so that I can do what I want with the device I purchase.
Oh and that Nexus S will be on AT&T, I pay for an AT&T family plan for my parents already, the only reasons I opened a T-Mobile account were to support local business (well the U.S. arm of T-Mobile and HTC at least) and to get the Sensation.
No Offense but sounds bull**** to me..stupid reps dont know what they are talkin about...thats like the presidents maid saying we are bombing russia tomm...Im sure HTC would risk all the bad cred this would cause after they just opened up the Dev section at HTC to a releationship with private DEVS...no way!! Within 2 weeks is my bet!! just long enuff so we dont return under the 30 days,, to be honest idk..it will get figured out by devs here and elsewhere and in the meantime im running a rom i was trying to get perfect on my OG EVO(RIP) for months..now its flawless and on roids!!,,JUST MY OPINION...NO FLAMES>>>
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
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+1.
There's a reason that hardware manufacturers are required to perform warranty replacements or repairs on devices regardless of the software being used. You'd never hear Acer or HP deny your request for warranty replacement of a bad motherboard simply because you wiped the pre-installed Windows OS for a Linux flavor.
That rep must be smoking some seriously good stuff, as well as be very ignorant of U.S. laws and regulations just to say something like that.
Come to think of it, I'll bet he works undercover for Samsung or Motorolla
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
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Click to collapse
That is why they have a TOS - Terms of Service. They are not violating any US laws unless they contradict their own TOS. You know when you get your phone and on the manual there's a crap ton of fine prints? or once your phone is turned on and you have to check "I agree". If you took the time to read any of the information in those "TOS" or "policy" than you will understand that their behinds are definitely covered.
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
tigerz0202 said:
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
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Click to collapse
If any of this is true at all. Than it seems they are going about it similar to getting your phone "unlocked" to go out of country. It's on a "by request" issue and if its in their TOS than if you want it. you abide by it.
mykoe817 said:
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
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I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
_kansei_ said:
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
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Good post. And I completely understand where your coming from. I can see HTC stance on this as I work with info-systems for businesses and what they are doing is pretty normal in terms of proprietary software/hardware. When I say proprietary I mean that this software is designed to work with specific hardware only.
Unlike windows/linux or other computer operating systems. Which are not proprietary in terms of hardware utilized. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Computer operating systems are designed to function with a wide range of hardware. Each OS is bundled with thousands of drivers. Also the resource of drivers available online. I work with lots of firewalls. All of which comprise of its own OS. That OS is only designed for that box only. If I mess with that OS, the whole box is no longer under warranty.
I wanna say its more of a privileged that HTC is unlocking their software giving users the privileged to do custom software and etc.
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
I second your comment about the HTC rep.
I'm not too worried. Even if this is true, SOMEONE here is bound to come up with a way to turn S-OFF despite T-mobile or HTC.
Problem here is I think your missing the point... The way I read the OP is that you have to call T-Mobile or whoever...not HTC to get S=OFF. Now correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like a T-Mobile stipulation...not a requirement from HTC. Which would be the "Documentation" another poster was talking about in another thread.
Seems some are jumping the gun by saying "Well if its hardware related ...blah blah; they should replace my phone under warranty." I don't think anyone disputes that. It's when you go and brick your phone with a bad flash or you can't follow directions etc..that that phone is "YOURS" and not for the carrier to eat the cost because you screwed up your phone & want a replacement.
If OP is true, I say its a Carrier stipulation not HTC because they already sold the phone to T-Mobile or whoever already and if your bricking the hell outta phones, HTC is gonna be doing great business with all of the warranty replacements to the Carrier...why would they care ...its the carriers losing money on bricked replacements and the carrier requesting more or less "stipulations" to keep track of people S=Off ing & rooting or flashing their phones.
mykoe817 said:
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
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I gave some thought to that before I posted. Driving, you have to prove you're at least slightly capable of not killing yourself and others behind the wheel for 5 minutes before they'll give you a license to kill --I mean drive (sorry, hit by a car while cycling recently, I'm still bitter). As a consumer in the U.S., there are laws at the federal and state level that protect our interests against the evil corporations, though only a little of course as those evil corporations have way more power in our government than we do.
It's not a privilege we earn like driving, it's one given to all of us.
Screw dealing with this, I'm getting an iPhone (kidding of course)
Related
So you've bricked your captivate..../Stories to tell AT&T so you can get it replaced!
I recently bricked my captivate. It turned into a brick. Nothing happened at all. So i called samsung when ATT wouldnt replace it, and i told them it would shut off every once in a while and then one day it wouldnt turn on again. they gave me a new one!!!
so here i am, starting an AT&T/Samsung Support story thread. Tell us what you told them, and the results!
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
cropythy said:
Or instead of a story realize you just perpetrated fraud and edging on theft since you lied about what happened to your phone instead of taking responsibility foe breaking it. If you're going to change the inner workings of your phone you shouldn't lie to get it replaced, but instead accept the risks and the cost if something goes wrong.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
10c for a text message isn't honest but that doesn't mean lying about what you did to your phone should be condoned.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
First off, I don't think anybody has managed to actually brick one of these phones - even the ones who have deliberately tried to do so.
Secondly, if you can't live with the restrictions AT&T has put on the phone, you have 30 days to return it. If you want to hack or modify your phone go ahead - but be prepared to accept the consquences for your actions.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
you could always one click odin3 restore and be fine!
This is hands down, 100% wrong. YOU were playing around with your phone. YOU knew the risks and you decided to flash/update/whatever your device and ended up with a partial brick. (to my knowledge there has not been a fully bricked captivate yet)
It is YOUR responsibility to replace the phone if YOU damage it in any way. NOT At&t.
It always irks me when people manipulate retailers/manufacturers to get things replaced 'under warranty' when in fact, the warranty has been voided.
Not a good idea to make up a story
Its not like they cannot find out that you were the culprit who bricked it when the phone gets back to QA. And believe me...they WILL find out. Once they find out and if they decide to care you are technically liable for the full price of the phone in addition to what they deem are damages
Additionally it will just lead to more efforts by AT&T to keep modders out, hurting us all at xda in the process.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Wow somebody sounds bitter. If AT&T didn't place so many restrictions on the phone then maybe we wouldn't have to modify the "inner workings" in the first place. True it might not be honest, but neither is charging 10c for a text message
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Click to collapse
So being dishonest makes it all right?
Guess what? No one tricked anyone into buying a phone. AT&T does not change terms and conditions without giving you cause to cancel your contract. If you don't like the price of text messages, then don't text; or go with a cheaper carrier.
If you don't like the restrictions don't buy the phone.
And you probably justify downloading music, apps, and movies because they cost to much or not good enough quality?
what does it mean to breake?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I agree with the above posters.
When I bought this phone, I knew I was going to root it, ROM it, edit the files and such. I knew at the same time that doing so would void my warranty and make me liable for any damage I did to the phone. Understanding that made me more careful about what I put on my phone, and made me research the HELL out of any changes I made before I made them, and how to fix them if something went wrong.
Also, it's, so far, IMPOSSIBLE to completely brick a captivate, since you can just use Odin3 to reinstall software. I would think the only way to brick one would be hardware damage from taking it apart, or smashing it with a hammer or something crazy like that.
Just go to this thread, download the firmware, Odin3 and the pitfile and reinstall your phone's OS.
http: // forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=731989
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Holy crap I didn't think so many people would be morally distressed by Hazard96's actions. The guy faked a story to get a new phone, big deal. Its not like he killed someone. I know what he did was wrong, I'm not arguing that. I merely stated that dishonesty is not a quality possessed by one individual, and that if a company is going to engage in dishonest practices well... things have a way of balancing themselves out. Corporate greed is incredibly pervasive in today's society. I'm sure AT&T and Samsung aren't angels either. Now that being said, I do not condone what Mr. Hazard did nor would I do what he did. Here's a little anecdote: I bought a 1st gen iPhone when they first came out, unlocked it and later found out it had hardware issues. I could have easily brought it to an apple store and have them replace it but I voided my warranty by unlocking it and cut my losses by selling an unlocked defective phone. Before we start making assumptions about people lets analyze the situation and not get our panties in a bunch over something that is, in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential.
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Click to collapse
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
I'm sorry, but in my world, if I install linux on a brand new dell or HP computer, and the screen shorts, my warranty doesn't become void. I can't receive software technical support because I am not running the software the sold me, but if the hardware is defective, software has ZERO to do with it. So the limitations that AT&T place on cell phones that if you flash a new ROM it's warranty is void is ridiculous, and downright fraudulent.
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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Click to collapse
(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
alphadog00 said:
What are the dishonest practices that are perpetrated by these companies that would permit someone to lie in return? (assuming one wrong justifies another)
I don't have a problem with someone taking a bricked phone and saying it doesn't work - all these devices should have a way to recover - like Odin allows and like the iPhone allows - recovery mode then reflash to stock. You could have reflashed your firmware to stock and return it to the apple - nothing dishonest about that.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that lying to the company is justified - this concept that "They were dishonest with me, so i can lie to them". I want some justification for that - where is the corporate deceit?
No one made me any promises when i bought my phone - I had 30 days to return it if it didn't work the way i wanted it too. The rate plans are spelled out pretty clearly, as are roaming and data.
They may not be priced fair in my mind, but I see nothing dishonest. I just want examples of dishonesty - not examples of a store manager saying something, examples of the corporation being dishonest.
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Click to collapse
How about price fixing, dubious business practices, illegal political contributions, tax evasion, and breach of trust (These are allegations that samsung was CAUGHT doing, imagine all the stuff that's been going on behind closed doors).
http://www.corp-ethics.com/company/samsung/samsung-give-825m-charity.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/business/worldbusiness/17iht-17samsung.12083418.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/European-Union-Price-Fixing-DRAM,10462.html
NOW AGAIN, I'm not saying because Samsung engaged in these practices that it justifies one man's deceitful actions, all I'm saying is that no one is perfect... And I don't want to get started on what AT&T is guilty of.
Kreiger1981 said:
(I'm agreeing with quoted poster)
It's also an issue of trust. If people keep returning phones that were bricked due to rooting or flashing improperly, then eventually the phone companies will work to put some kind of lockdown on that type of thing. Hard to to? probably, but the latest fiasco with Efuse and such on the Droid X showed us that it's POSSIBLE. Ultimately while I appreciate the ability to make my phone into essentially anything I want I think that once you start making those changes you take full possession of the phone. I don't want Samsung to go "hey, we had a bunch of phones returned because the idiots bricked them by flashing a bad rom, we should make it so you can't do that to keep them from ruining their phones and costing us money"
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Click to collapse
Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
wuxingwarrior3 said:
Or said companies can accept the fact that rooting et al will take place anyway, and make the process much easier. Jailbreaking is legal now right? Companies ought to develop a system where people can jailbreak/root without fear of bricking and companies will save money. It's a win-win
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Click to collapse
This phone is already ridiculously easy to flash and virtually impossible to brick, and we still have ethically bankrupt idiots pulling these stunts and then coming here to brag about it!
I would agree that we have blatant price fixing in regards to the price of text messages and probably in regards to other services too. These issues need to be addressed through the appropriate legal avenues. None of them turn "wrong" into "right".
Someone should sticky the below post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=753946
It IS possible to brick the phone. Anyone who spouts off about how it is impossible is dead wrong. See post seven of the above thread. While what the OP did is wrong on some level, the severity is debatable for the next hundred years. I will say that the community shares some responsibility though. There are not enough warnings about bricking, everyone simply states that it's nearly impossible. I've seen numerous posts asking for help on a device that is as the OP described in his other thread and the only things that are posted are the typical "It can't be bricked, you're just doing it wrong" posts. Having personally seen one such device, I've read a lot of threads about it. Most are simply stuck at the android failsafe screen or in a boot loop but there are indeed complete bricks and not enough attention is given to them or how to avoid them. In short, the OP does deserve some slack.
Wow wtf happened to this site?
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
I decided I'd make this post to help people out who find themselves disconcerted with T-Mobile's handling (or should I say mishandling) of the G2X situation. As many of you are aware, T-Mobile does not have an alternate phone in their system that they will swap your G2X for. Basically what this means is that if you're having problems with your phone, the only thing they will do is continue to send you out more refurbs. I have had 5 G2X's sent out and am awaiting my sixth. I wanted to let you guys know what options are on the table. Since T-Mobile is failing to produce a reliable and fully functional device they were forced to let me out of my contract without an ETF. It took talking to a lot of people but after having 5 phones sent out and them telling me they can't give me a different model, they really didn't have much choice. The only other solution that they came up with was to give me the full upgrade pricing on a Sensation. I hardly call having me pay more money on top of what I've already paid, a solution. So I forced them to release me from the contract. Also, I am awaiting word back from their corporate office to see what they will do about this. As I put it to them on the phone, it doesn't make sense that you won't even sell this phone right now because of quality control issues (and they have admitted to me now on several occasions that's the reason it was pulled), but the people who already have it just get screwed and you continue to send them a phone that THEY KNOW and admit is defective.
Summary: Exchange your phone at least 3 times and then force your way out of the contract. Also, call corporate and leave a message. They will call you back. 425-378-4000
If you are dissatisfied with T-Mobile, make your voices heard!
I feel yours and everyone else's pain on issues with this phone. I picked mine up on day one and will say GPS has been pretty bad...I've had no issues of reboots or any of the other issues.
Hope it works out for you.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Sensation
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
Me personally I've already gotten a Sensation (as of the 8th) but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the way that T-Mobile is handling the situation. My issue is that they admit to having problems, so much to the point that they pulled it, however they are not wanting to take care of the customers that have already been affected by the problems that they admit to having.
I wish battery life was better.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Thank you very much for that number to corporate. I spent 3 hours on the phone the other day trying to explain to manager after manager that it isn't my fault as the consumer that I bought a phone from them that was so defective that they pulled it and stopped selling it. It's almost a farce at how not compassionate they were towards me and how they basically just said, "LG's going to take care of it, it's out of our hands." I am definitely going to call that number and I can't wait til I get a call back. Thanks again.
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
tackleberry said:
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
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First off, let's try to be a bit more respectful...
Now that we got that out of the way. Yes it is possible, but you have to force their hand. They are not going to make it easy because of course they don't want to release you. But if you are persistent enough and talk to enough managers (in the retentions dept) yes you can get out of it.
randyp007 said:
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
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The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
Erislover said:
The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
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As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right. I was just saying it's not an "easy" exchange, like it would be with an HTC<--->HTC exchange. They still wouldn't be obligated to do that under our contracts, but it would be "easy" for the company to accept, as they wouldn't lose beaucoup bucks doing so. Here, though, they eat a lot of loss giving us all new phones (whether at full upgrade price or free).
But amen to what you're saying - they *should* make sure we have phones that work longer than 6 hrs/day and don't reboot randomly throughout the day. (Lucky for me, my phone is running solid on EB 1.5 froyo, and I couldn't be happier with the phone, but I had all the issues complained of before I made the switch, and life is good now....)
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
Adam7986 said:
Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
mysterioustko said:
This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First let me clear something up, I am not speaking on behalf of t-mobile, but that argument is flawed. T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break. Is that a crappy way to look at it, yes, but that is the gods honest truth. If you get a new car and it the brakes go bad you don't replace the whole damn car, you fix whats wrong with it and move on. Now I know cell phones are different, but at the same token if something is wrong with your phone you don't automatically get a brand new one, you fix it.
If it can be fixed, it is fixed. If it can't be fixed then you get a replacement. Will I exchange your device if I can't fix it? Sure, but I AM going to try to fix it. Most times, we don't even fight customers very hard about exchanges, we give in pretty easily.
In all honesty, your beef is with LG, yes we sell the phone, but the warranty is LG's warranty, not T-Mobile's. We decide to save you the hassle of having to send your phone in for repairs and then getting the same device that was broken back. That is what the manufacturer's warranty covers, if the repairs fail to fix the issue, only then will they exchange it for you and guess what, its a refurb. We absorb a lot of that cost and delay as a company, so you, our customer doesn't have to.
And P.S. out of the 25 calls I take a day, I may not be able to resolve 2 of them. That bothers me, truly it does, I want to fix everything. At the same token, if all you want is a new phone, you don't want customer service.
Adam7986 said:
T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break.
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Click to collapse
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
Erislover said:
(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then take everything I said and replace judge with arbiter.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
I don't get it you had 14 days (30 days in California) to return the device and you kept it so I don't understand these arguments. You could have simply returned the device within that time frame and waited for the next device to be released. Instead you stuck with the device seems like a poor decision on the consumers part.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Adam. You have 14 days or 30 days depending on where you bought it. The phone is brand new. Some phones have a few issues. If yours had issues it would have been apparent in the first several days with plenty of days to make the swap.
The issue with a new device, is that there will be lots of returns and lots of defective refurbs. Every refurb I get is nasty right now because all of the bad screen bleeds are being recycled.
Mine works great aside from a longer then normal GPS lock (something fishy with AGPS). But once you are past your return period, you are stuck with it. If you are unhappy with YOUR choice, then cancel your contract, sell the phone, and move on. It isn't really that difficult.
I think if you are having issues with the phone that is bad enough to make you want to jump to another phone, the $50 upgrade price isn't really that bad since you basically used a brand new phone for at least 2 weeks to a month.
I know $50 is $50 but if I really wanted another phone and was offered the one I wanted for $50, no questions asked... I would go for it.... unless the goal was to get something for nothing.... which isn't right.
Bottom line is you let your return period lapse. They could say, "Sorry we can't help you". But sounds like they are trying and offering various solutions. Whether they aren't good enough for you is another topic.
I'd say take the upgrade for $50 and move on or pay to get out of contract entirely.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether you like it or not, you are indeed wrong. The functionality of a device is not guaranteed by any service provider. Hence why you are allowed to use unlocked devices and such. The only guarantee is that the device sold has to be compatible with the services sold. If a device turns of randomly and there are other issues, your contract with any service provider will not ensure you a new or replaced device because your SERVICE is not impaired, just your usage. I know that is crappy but it is what it is.
When you purchase a device, you are then subject to the terms of use by the manufacturer ONLY. You enter into a separate contract with your service provider. In most countries, devices are not purchased at a discount through a service provider, they are bought outright at full price. The warranty is guaranteed and based on the terms of service and subject to manufacturer discretion. Almost all of the manufacturers require repair before warranty exchange is fulfilled.
Again, service providers decide to accept the brunt of these exchanges and costs associated with them, because customers would rather leave and go to another provider instead of dealing with the hassle. So while a provider is willing to and able to process your exchange and get you a replacement device, it is in no way a requirement of your contract with said provider. The only time this is not true is during a "buyer's remorse" period that is required by most states, but even then the exchange isn't a requirement, just the ability to return the device and receive a refund.
http://www.law360.com/technology/articles/258771/lg-struck-with-class-action-over-smartphone-defects . credit to brooklyng2x over on lgforum for finding it.
Would be nice if you didn't have to sign up with a website in order to get on board with the CAL.
The link isn't working for me
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf
He is right! Somebody had to do it! LG deserves it!
Well now LG won't give us GB at all lol they're probably saying, "Well here's the lawsuit, now we don't have to work on GB anymore."
this needed to be done, this isnt the first time lg has had a class action lawsuit. They have had one for their refrigerators.
nyyankees3511 said:
how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you kind sir!
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said.
Like I said in other thread: Some people can't see past their own nose.
I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.
nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty
baldwinguy77 said:
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the first run of this phone is it not? Yep sure is. I went through these issues with the original iPhone release as well. Since it was the only phone Apple released they were able to focus resources on it solely. LG, like most companies is chasing the $$ and therefore spreading themselves way too thin. I"m not making excuses but it's the reality of it all.
And yep, I know about the corruptness of the system. My brother is a personal injury attorney, I see it all the time.
mahgninnuc93 said:
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you give this more credit than it actually has. LG won't even notice something like this until it makes the run of the legal system waiting periods, response times, etc.
At best, you might see a more controlled response publicly from LG. You might see information dry up on support forums, from LG as they control responses and limit anything that could be used against them. But for development, the biggest hurdle in GB was not bugs on the G2x. As you saw recently, LG released or will soon release 2 GB handsets. This was most likely the biggest hurdle in G2x updates. Having a single LG wide GB story, then customize to individual handset. It makes no sense to think that LG would customize GB for a released handset, prior to insuring the GB release for new handsets was in place.
The day a finalized version of a LG GB os was in place company wide, thats when the porting to G2x, with any fixes, started. The work became integrating the fixes in to the GB update.
Remember, these guys are into making money, not updating for free.
I've read somewhere on this forum about speculation about LG pulling the G2x over marketing concerns in competition with the SEnsation. This does make some sense. LG will never outsell HTC. But in an end of summer market, post Sensation, a GB G2x might make a bigger splash NONE of the signs point to abandonment. Legally they can't do that. But signs do point to repositioning of a product.
I think in the rush to market to be the first Dual Core handset, LG lost, by being first.
just my opinion...
Well, as I just posted at LGs forum, I just want a new sealed updated phone. That's been one of my biggest gripes, I never get a working phone and my end result is a used scratched refurbished one without a matching box? Still with no update to boot. And I'm in WAY better shape than some customers, 'cause I have one that works.....for now.
Patently unfair.
mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is people's willingness to accept the nonsense. If the consumer doesn't complant about these issues, these companies will just get away with it. I don't know about you, but I am tried of just getting defective phones, I exchange it three times and same problem, then politely ask them for a full refund and was refused, saying all they can do is repair it or exchange it for the same model then wrote a letter to their head corporate offices and haven't heard back. LG don't care, they made their money.
jrwingate6 said:
I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to own the phone anymore, you just have to have owned it during the period outlined in complaint. Maybe I'll recoup some of my costs for moving to AT&T.
This is great news.
My view is a bit different. There are defects about a phone I can deal with (ie. backlight bleeding, gps/wifi) but when a phone can't operate as a phone, that draws the line.
The random reboots are the most annoying thing, and some of which don't ever reboot (requires a battery pull to get it working again).
This purchase has given me a very sour taste in my mouth for not only LG and their future products but also T-mobile's sub-par involvement in assisting customers.
I'm beyond the point of going to another carrier, since plans like the one I'm on no longer exist for this price. So unless T-mobile pulls through, I'll say screw the cell-phone market altogether.
Hello guys,
I know this may seem obvious to others....
A lot of us have been scared about having our phones permanently S-OFF and the thought of being "caught" when it comes to warranty issues.
There really shouldnt be any risk as HTC has released numerous S-OFF devices to those lucky enough to have them. If you check, you will see that once you have flashed back to your stock ROM, that the revolutionary S-OFF has been changed to S-OFF only.
All we have to do, if even questioned, is claim we were given an S-OFF device and that we dont even know what it even means. ;-)
Just make SURE you flash back to stock ROM and remove suspicious apps like root explorer or SetCPU before sending off for warranty work.
Any comments? Thoughts?
MAtt
mrg02d said:
Hello guys,
I know this may seem obvious to others....
A lot of us have been scared about having our phones permanently S-OFF and the thought of being "caught" when it comes to warranty issues.
There really shouldnt be any risk as HTC has released numerous S-OFF devices to those lucky enough to have them. If you check, you will see that once you have flashed back to your stock ROM, that the revolutionary S-OFF has been changed to S-OFF only.
All we have to do, if even questioned, is claim we were given an S-OFF device and that we dont even know what it even means. ;-)
Just make SURE you flash back to stock ROM and remove suspicious apps like root explorer or SetCPU before sending off for warranty work.
Any comments? Thoughts?
MAtt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you could just not commit fraud and own up to what you did if that is truly the cause of what damaged your device.
mrg02d said:
Hello guys,
I know this may seem obvious to others....
A lot of us have been scared about having our phones permanently S-OFF and the thought of being "caught" when it comes to warranty issues.
There really shouldnt be any risk as HTC has released numerous S-OFF devices to those lucky enough to have them. If you check, you will see that once you have flashed back to your stock ROM, that the revolutionary S-OFF has been changed to S-OFF only.
All we have to do, if even questioned, is claim we were given an S-OFF device and that we dont even know what it even means. ;-)
Just make SURE you flash back to stock ROM and remove suspicious apps like root explorer or SetCPU before sending off for warranty work.
Any comments? Thoughts?
MAtt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip ;-)
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
ajwho said:
Or you could just not commit fraud and own up to what you did if that is truly the cause of what damaged your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured there would be a few of these posts...
Now, how many people here "truly" know what caused our phone to screw up?
Reprogramming the CPU to run at 2v and then having the CPU fry itself is one thing. Having a crappy data signal is another.
Dont even get me started on the dust under the screen issue. I intend to replace my phone in a month or two because of it. (Waiting for them to realize what they are doing wrong and fix it so I dont wind up with my 3rd phone with dust).
Matt
mrg02d said:
I figured there would be a few of these posts...
Now, how many people here "truly" know what caused our phone to screw up?
Reprogramming the CPU to run at 2v and then having the CPU fry itself is one thing. Having a crappy data signal is another.
Dont even get me started on the dust under the screen issue. I intend to replace my phone in a month or two because of it. (Waiting for them to realize what they are doing wrong and fix it so I dont wind up with my 3rd phone with dust).
Matt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty obvious what the cause of the problem is. If you don't know, you probably shouldn't be rooting your phone, anyway.
Getting warrantied for dust under the screen won't be affected by rooting your device. Have you ever dealt with HTC? They're pretty good about recognizing when they screwed up and when you screwed up. Whether they're good at fixing dust under the screen is something you'd be more familiar with than me
You're trying to convince yourself it's okay to commit fraud. If that's what you want to do, that's fine. But don't smile and act like you don't know what you're doing. It's like that "FREE BATTERY AND BACKCOVER" thread. No, you guys are committing fraud. It's not free because you're faking a warranty claim.
Well, thats good that you know the exact cause of every thing that goes wrong with a phone, but the rest of us dont. There have been plenty of issues with these phones while STOCK, so go take your self righteous BS somewhere else.
Also, brush up on your definition of fraud...Smartypants!
Now, what HTC has done over the dust issue is straight FRAUD! They damn well know about the problem, yet deny it. A $600 phone shouldnt have problems like that.
So, S-OFF, the both of you. :-D
Matt
ajwho said:
It's pretty obvious what the cause of the problem is. If you don't know, you probably shouldn't be rooting your phone, anyway.
Getting warrantied for dust under the screen won't be affected by rooting your device. Have you ever dealt with HTC? They're pretty good about recognizing when they screwed up and when you screwed up. Whether they're good at fixing dust under the screen is something you'd be more familiar with than me
You're trying to convince yourself it's okay to commit fraud. If that's what you want to do, that's fine. But don't smile and act like you don't know what you're doing. It's like that "FREE BATTERY AND BACKCOVER" thread. No, you guys are committing fraud. It's not free because you're faking a warranty claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ere man go troll somewhere else, if u haven't got anything good to say keep ya stupid mouth shut... stop assuming people are committing fraud. the OP is a very good peace of mind for people.
ajwho said:
It's pretty obvious what the cause of the problem is. If you don't know, you probably shouldn't be rooting your phone, anyway.
Getting warrantied for dust under the screen won't be affected by rooting your device. Have you ever dealt with HTC? They're pretty good about recognizing when they screwed up and when you screwed up. Whether they're good at fixing dust under the screen is something you'd be more familiar with than me
You're trying to convince yourself it's okay to commit fraud. If that's what you want to do, that's fine. But don't smile and act like you don't know what you're doing. It's like that "FREE BATTERY AND BACKCOVER" thread. No, you guys are committing fraud. It's not free because you're faking a warranty claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i rooted my Nexus One way back when, got dust under the screen shortly after. had to pony up 140 dollars to have the dust issue fixed because the device had it's warranty voided because i rooted it. (it's truly a one way road when you unlock a Nexus One) i tried to argue that me rooting the device had no impact on the screen not being assembled properly and they said it "we're sorry sir, the warranty is still void"
ideally HTC should have a two tier warranty to handle rooted devices, and stock devices. but it doesn't. so you have to do whatever it takes to get back under warranty for issues obviously not caused by using custom ROM's.
btw, just curious. for IPhone 3G/3GS users back in the day that had issues with the plastic case on their phone cracking after 6-9 months, should the jailbreakers have gotten their device exchanged for free because jailbreaking obviously doesn't cause the phone to crack?
Well, rooting and s-off are different things, right? I wouldn't send in a phone that is rooted. How would they know if they didn't give you an s-off device, that you made it that way?
If the phone needs to get a warranty replacement due to a fault that you have had no influence on then they should fix that issue, its simple! If the phone fails due to a defect created due to design limitations or bad manufacturing processes why the hell should a software mod have any impact... its just a way of HTC getting away with selling defective goods on a technicality.
mrg02d said:
Well, rooting and s-off are different things, right? I wouldn't send in a phone that is rooted. How would they know if they didn't give you an s-off device, that you made it that way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering how rare the S-OFF devices were i bet they have the serial number of each one tucked away somewhere. but i don't know how if they're checking every one that comes in against said theoretical database.
the issue with the Nexus one's is they got a big ol unlocked padlock on the boot image you couldn't get rid of. fortunately we don't have that issue here.
Hmmm...Perhaps then, the devs should still be considering a solid way to S-ON? I never thought about HTC having a record of the serial numbers of the S-OFF devices.
When I called Tmobile over the dust issue, they told me that I could request a new phone and pay $20.00 plus shipping. I dont know what they would do to my current phone once they receive it though. Maybe, ship it back to HTC and let HTC look for a reason to charge me?
Matt
For the people thinking that s off on my device that i payed for is fraud, what if i get dust under my screen? No warranty? Because s-off might have been the cause? Come on be a little bit realistic!
If you ever chiptune your car and after that you get problems with interior faults or whatever would you like it if the manufacturer tells you that you voided your warranty because of modifing the ecu?
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
Mafiatounes said:
For the people thinking that s off on my device that i payed for is fraud, what if i get dust under my screen? No warranty? Because s-off might have been the cause? Come on be a little bit realistic!
If you ever chiptune your car and after that you get problems with interior faults or whatever would you like it if the manufacturer tells you that you voided your warranty because of modifing the ecu?
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
At least read before you post. No one said S-Off should void your screen warranty.
This forum is full of people constantly scheming. Look at the free backcover and battery thread. I'm not surprised my post caught the flack it did. Continue perpetuating fraud. And yes, it is fraud. Perhaps you should learn the definition.
ajwho said:
At least read before you post. No one said S-Off should void your screen warranty.
This forum is full of people constantly scheming. Look at the free backcover and battery thread. I'm not surprised my post caught the flack it did. Continue perpetuating fraud. And yes, it is fraud. Perhaps you should learn the definition.
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Click to collapse
you gonna just casually skip over my post saying yes S-OFF would technically void your entire phones warranty? this isn't a car. it doesn't have 'separate' warranties for different parts.
and yes, it's reading comprehension, Perhaps you should learn the definition.
to be fair, in the uk if u go to consumer direct with these issues HTC will change their mind, retail law so to speak is not set in stone or ever will be. And yes i agree that people getting a free cover and battery when they dont need it is morally wrong. But If HTC dont come good on fixing the issues the £600 phone i bought then id happily claim for every part 100 times as a lesson for leaving product testing to the customer demise...
I would have to agree that the dust under the screen is a mechanical issue, and if HTC were being decent, they would take care of that. My question is, if you were able to get ahold of a stock RUU wouldn't that take everything back to bone stock settings? Maybe if you were to make nice with someone at a T-mo store, they would help you out with that.
In any event, the only issue I could see is if it were to be refurbished, and it couldn't be reflashed, then it would be a no go because they would be releasing an S-Off phone to the pool, and it could cause them some grief. That's the only reason I couldn't see them taking the core as an exchange. But, they could be decent and offer to fix the one you have.
mrg02d said:
Well, thats good that you know the exact cause of every thing that goes wrong with a phone, but the rest of us dont. There have been plenty of issues with these phones while STOCK, so go take your self righteous BS somewhere else.
Also, brush up on your definition of fraud...Smartypants!
Now, what HTC has done over the dust issue is straight FRAUD! They damn well know about the problem, yet deny it. A $600 phone shouldnt have problems like that.
So, S-OFF, the both of you. :-D
Matt
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Click to collapse
Actually his definition of fraud is correct. Yours however is not. Fraud is defined as
-an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual
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Click to collapse
if you were to say brick your device by following a rooting guide then you told HTC that it shipped broken, you would be committing fraud. As you purposefully deceived them into giving you a new device or other personal gain. That said if your device does have dust under the glass and that is something covered by your warranty and not caused by you under violation of that warranty HTC has a moral obligation to replace your screen. Furthermore HTC is not committing fraud by shipping devices susceptible to getting dust underneath the glass. The reason for this being they never told you that your device cannot get dust behind your screen and if what ajwho says is true they are replacing devices with this issue. Thank you for reading and I hope that you learned something. If anything I wrote is grammatically or factually inaccurate please feel free to correct me.
DesignDecay said:
Actually his definition of fraud is correct. Yours however is not. Fraud is defined as if you were to say brick your device by following a rooting guide then you told HTC that it shipped broken, you would be committing fraud. As you purposefully deceived them into giving you a new device or other personal gain. That said if your device does have dust under the glass and that is something covered by your warranty and not caused by you under violation of that warranty HTC has a moral obligation to replace your screen. Furthermore HTC is not committing fraud by shipping devices susceptible to getting dust underneath the glass. The reason for this being they never told you that your device cannot get dust behind your screen and if what ajwho says is true they are replacing devices with this issue. Thank you for reading and I hope that you learned something. If anything I wrote is grammatically or factually inaccurate please feel free to correct me.
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Who the F*ck are you to come on here with 4 posts and call my definition wrong? Your an idiot. HTC KNOWING of a problem and TELLING us otherwise IS for personal gain you **** head! They DONT want to REPLACE a phone for free!
Furthermore, no one here ever mentioned turning in a bricked phone and claiming they got the phone that way...
S-OFF turd.
Dont you have better things to do than to come on here and stir up trouble? Go get girlfriends or something...
Settle down ladies. This is not the place for a flame war. Take it elsewhere please.
Official on GSMARENA
"You certainly remember that this spring HTC took a rapid U-turn in their smartphone policy and decided to start locking their bootloaders to prevent unauthorized hacking and modding of the preinstalled software. The Taiwanese company was then quickly made to regret its decision as users from all over the world went online and made their discontent public. In the end, HTC CEO was quick to respond with a promise that they will revert to their old policy.
Except that no action has been taken about bringing the old ways back ever since and everyone is understandably getting impatient. Well, today the company stepped on stage to give us some more details about the when's and how's of the unlocking of the bootloaders.
As it turns out, HTC will still be releasing all its devices with locked bootloaders (booo!), but soon they will be providing a web tool that will let you unlock them if you want to (yay!). However, you will need to create an account in order to use it and "accept legal disclaimers that unlocking may void all or parts of your warranty".
The web tool should be released this month with the international version of the Sensation becoming the first supported smartphone. The EVO 3D and the T-Mobile Sensation 4G should follow right after that. And while this is certainly a wait we can live with, we can't help but notice that this is not what Peter Chou promised in May.
Here’s the exact quote: "Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices.". Are we the only ones to suspect that this is not the end of the saga just yet?"
Source : http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_details...policy_another_storm_brewing_up-news-2962.php
They are now simply takingadvantage of customers....i will soon dispose off this stupid fone and stupid promises and accept samsung....atleast they r not twin faced like htc.....
H - Hell
T - to
c - Customers....
From now this is full form of htc as per all of us who trusted them
Right, because it is totally their fault if you f*ck up your phone or brick it by flashing a bootloader or Rom, and they should totally have to fix it.
/sarcasm
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Oh come on, Sony is doing the exact same thing. If you're not happy with the HTC method you can always unlock it the XDA way. Like it or not, unlocking your bootloader ALWAYS voided your warranty, the only difference is that now you're unable to hide it.
lalitsehgal21 said:
They are now simply takingadvantage of customers....i will soon dispose off this stupid fone and stupid promises and accept samsung....atleast they r not twin faced like htc.....
H - Hell
T - to
c - Customers....
From now this is full form of htc as per all of us who trusted them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give me a break. If you really believe this, go enjoy Samsung and THEIR broken promises. HTC update their phones way more than Samsung ever will. You should be happy HTC is doing ANYTHING to appease the modding community, especially considering that most/all firmware that we flash onto our phones is based on intellectual property "borrowed" (more like stolen) from HTC in the first place.
HTC is handling this the way they are to cover their asses in case someone bricks their phone flashing it with unsupported software, and frankly, you and I both know a good percentage of the community doesn't have enough brain capacity to avoid certain doom when attempting a lot of these mods.
Also, it's a bit of a stretch to say that everyone is growing impatient. Those of us that were complaining loudly about the policy in the first place were only complaining because we HAD no possible way to unlock our bootloaders. Now we do, thanks to awesome efforts by revolutionary and teamwin. We might be keeping an eye on the developing story, because we'd like if future phones were unlockable out of the box, but the vitrol is not there. They promised us August/September, and it looks like they're standing behind that.
On Samsung you will also loose your warranty by flashing any roms and unlocking the bootloader is easy.
All warranty means in the UK is that the company agrees to replace/repair without question within the warranty period.
The law actually says if something goes wrong in the first 6 months the retailer (not the manufacturer) has to prove the fault was caused by the owner's actions/mistreatment, they of course can send it off to the manufacturer to prove this, by getting a report detailing how unlocking the bootloader caused the button to become faulty.
So if you unlock the bootloader and the power button starts playing up within the first 6 months then the retailer has to prove that it is faulty due to you unlocking the bootloader.
If it were to go wrong after 6 months, and the retailer contested it, you'd have to win the argument that unlocking the bootloader had nothing to do with the fault.
First, I want to say I agree with the OP.
xaccers said:
All warranty means in the UK is that the company agrees to replace/repair without question within the warranty period.
The law actually says if something goes wrong in the first 6 months the retailer (not the manufacturer) has to prove the fault was caused by the owner's actions/mistreatment, they of course can send it off to the manufacturer to prove this, by getting a report detailing how unlocking the bootloader caused the button to become faulty.
So if you unlock the bootloader and the power button starts playing up within the first 6 months then the retailer has to prove that it is faulty due to you unlocking the bootloader.
If it were to go wrong after 6 months, and the retailer contested it, you'd have to win the argument that unlocking the bootloader had nothing to do with the fault.
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Click to collapse
It would be nice if things were that rational here in the USA. Here, if you've modified the device, Congress has affirmed you can't be locked up or charged with any sort of intellectual property violations, but the retailer and HTC can deny warranty services. And they do, even in cases where the issue clearly was not caused by unlocking the device. Hence the need for some of us to use 3rd party methods and relock before seeking service for issues we know an unlock did not create.
I am glad that XDA allows voices of dissent to be heard without censorship. This site has not posted my polite disagreement. Notice, the ONLY comments they've got are ones praising HTC.
The Sensation very well may be my last HTC device. I gave them honest money, but they're not giving me honest responses on matters of importance to me.
Oh come, it says it may void all or part of your warranty. So who's to say what HTC will ACTUALLY do.
All this rooting/flashing CAN actually hard the hardware of your phone. You load up an overclocked kernal and your CPU fries. A very realistic scenerio which probably already happened, in this case, it's entirely the users fault!
Picture this, most laptops/devices have a warranty void if removed sticker on them. However, say I opened the laptop up so I can clean out all the dust. A month later the screen dies, what would YOU do if you were in charge of RMA at the company?
Matt1408 said:
Oh come, it says it may void all or part of your warranty. So who's to say what HTC will ACTUALLY do.
All this rooting/flashing CAN actually hard the hardware of your phone. You load up an overclocked kernal and your CPU fries. A very realistic scenerio which probably already happened, in this case, it's entirely the users fault!
Picture this, most laptops/devices have a warranty void if removed sticker on them. However, say I opened the laptop up so I can clean out all the dust. A month later the screen dies, what would YOU do if you were in charge of RMA at the company?
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Click to collapse
As I've said, HTC has ALREADY refused service to devices that were unlocked in the past and I don't expect that to change. I'm not talking about noobs who don't know what they're doing. Let's consider people who have a clue and run into issues not caused by a hack.
If I was in charge of RMA (or anything) at HTC, I'd tell them to go back to the way things were done with their very first Android device and enjoy the fact they're making a good profit.
Neither of us will convince each other of anything. Can't say I'll go on forever in this thread over this. I vote with my wallet. I purchased once HTC promised to never lock again and they've let me down. Those who vote/pay to continue with HTC, I'm happy for you.
Thankx for awsome response everyone ....jst one question why htc promised fake at first.. if that the case it means it was jst a publicity stunt...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App
lalitsehgal21 said:
Thankx for awsome response everyone ....jst one question why htc promised fake at first.. if that the case it means it was jst a publicity stunt...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App
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Exactly how I feel about it. They made a broad open statement that would please ears and got people like me literally won over to buy after that happened. Then they deliver this...
You can even read some of my old posts in this Sensation forum even before release where I was saying I can't get this device if they don't unlock it. Sure 3rd party Devs found a way, but I'm not going to continue this arms race game with HTC. I don't need them and they obviously can carry one without me.
Before I saw the video above and this thread, I was planning to start this thread myself. I just found the video later today when checking out the HTC home page.
I love these threads ...........
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The Radius Kid said:
I love these threads ...........
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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You guys are making way too big a deal out of this. HTC didn't say unlocking "will" void your warranty, they said it "may." If someone overclocks their CPU and melts it down, do you think HTC should replace it under warranty? There's a law (at least in the U.S.) that says a manufacturer can't void your warranty if you modify the product unless they can prove those modifications caused the defect. So in the case of an overclocked and fried CPU, HTC could prove the modifications damaged the phone. If you've overclocked your CPU and the screen dies, they'd have to repair that under warranty. They can never arbitrarily void your entire warranty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
BarryH_GEG said:
You guys are making way too big a deal out of this. HTC didn't say unlocking "will" void your warranty, they said it "may." If someone overclocks their CPU and melts it down, do you think HTC should replace it under warranty? There's a law (at least in the U.S.) that says a manufacturer can't void your warranty if you modify the product unless they can prove those modifications caused the defect. So in the case of an overclocked and fried CPU, HTC could prove the modifications damaged the phone. If you've overclocked your CPU and the screen dies, they'd have to repair that under warranty. They can never arbitrarily void your entire warranty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
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Correct.
It's not like they didn't know the operating conditions of the phone when they bought it.
Modify it at your own peril and don't cry if you brick it.
Anyone who expects to do whatever they want to their phone and not void your warranty is retarded. Can you do this to pc's? Tv's? Anything else in any category of consumer products? No, if you don't like it don't buy it. Buying a phone with a policy you don't like then *****ing about it is pretty redundant.
i wish i can use wifi on the sensation
yes hell to customers is right.. what type of phone drops wifi signals like nothin?
magnum_touchpro said:
i wish i can use wifi on the sensation
yes hell to customers is right.. what type of phone drops wifi signals like nothin?
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I would say that if you Sensation drops wifi signals all the time, you probably should change your router, or you have a HW fault on your phone.
Now before you tell me '..but my computer works etc..' mass produced routers for home users generally suck all of them,to find one that actually work as intended is like winning the lottery!
I must admit there is one wifi router i personally haven't had a singe problem with, and that is Apple Airport Extreme(latest revision, probably a couple of years old now), therefore i've told everyone i know to get one, and those(few) that did hav not had a single problem, and even my mother who is 60 years old managed to set it upp correctly with security, on her own.
But i know, i've been reading ppl having problem with even that one, but as i said, it really is a lottery..
RoosterX said:
I would say that if you Sensation drops wifi signals all the time, you probably should change your router, or you have a HW fault on your phone.
Now before you tell me '..but my computer works etc..' mass produced routers for home users generally suck all of them,to find one that actually work as intended is like winning the lottery!
I must admit there is one wifi router i personally haven't had a singe problem with, and that is Apple Airport Extreme(latest revision, probably a couple of years old now), therefore i've told everyone i know to get one, and those(few) that did hav not had a single problem, and even my mother who is 60 years old managed to set it upp correctly with security, on her own.
But i know, i've been reading ppl having problem with even that one, but as i said, it really is a lottery..
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Click to collapse
I think your right. When I'm home with my beast of a router (D-link HD) my WIFI is awsome with full bars on every single floor and every single room of a 3 story house. When I'm at a friends house with some ****ty wireless G router, my WIFI sucks. It wont even get full bars in the same room.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
It would be nice if things were that rational here in the USA. Here, if you've modified the device, Congress has affirmed you can't be locked up or charged with any sort of intellectual property violations, but the retailer and HTC can deny warranty services. And they do, even in cases where the issue clearly was not caused by unlocking the device. Hence the need for some of us to use 3rd party methods and relock before seeking service for issues we know an unlock did not create.
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Click to collapse
It always amazes me how little consumer protection there seems to be in the US
Thankfully there are other ways to unlock the bootloader without affecting the warranty.
Well guys..... Look at this....deat grip issue was still managable....then came.a big issue of touchscreen sensitivity and after that the panel is made by different brands...now a broken promise yhat too made by ceo himself.....I many times ask myself.... Was this fone tested well before launch or was it a haste move to match gs2.... Either way those like me who trusted htc since years are feelin off to hv trust shaken...
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA Premium App