I decided I'd make this post to help people out who find themselves disconcerted with T-Mobile's handling (or should I say mishandling) of the G2X situation. As many of you are aware, T-Mobile does not have an alternate phone in their system that they will swap your G2X for. Basically what this means is that if you're having problems with your phone, the only thing they will do is continue to send you out more refurbs. I have had 5 G2X's sent out and am awaiting my sixth. I wanted to let you guys know what options are on the table. Since T-Mobile is failing to produce a reliable and fully functional device they were forced to let me out of my contract without an ETF. It took talking to a lot of people but after having 5 phones sent out and them telling me they can't give me a different model, they really didn't have much choice. The only other solution that they came up with was to give me the full upgrade pricing on a Sensation. I hardly call having me pay more money on top of what I've already paid, a solution. So I forced them to release me from the contract. Also, I am awaiting word back from their corporate office to see what they will do about this. As I put it to them on the phone, it doesn't make sense that you won't even sell this phone right now because of quality control issues (and they have admitted to me now on several occasions that's the reason it was pulled), but the people who already have it just get screwed and you continue to send them a phone that THEY KNOW and admit is defective.
Summary: Exchange your phone at least 3 times and then force your way out of the contract. Also, call corporate and leave a message. They will call you back. 425-378-4000
If you are dissatisfied with T-Mobile, make your voices heard!
I feel yours and everyone else's pain on issues with this phone. I picked mine up on day one and will say GPS has been pretty bad...I've had no issues of reboots or any of the other issues.
Hope it works out for you.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Sensation
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
Me personally I've already gotten a Sensation (as of the 8th) but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the way that T-Mobile is handling the situation. My issue is that they admit to having problems, so much to the point that they pulled it, however they are not wanting to take care of the customers that have already been affected by the problems that they admit to having.
I wish battery life was better.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Thank you very much for that number to corporate. I spent 3 hours on the phone the other day trying to explain to manager after manager that it isn't my fault as the consumer that I bought a phone from them that was so defective that they pulled it and stopped selling it. It's almost a farce at how not compassionate they were towards me and how they basically just said, "LG's going to take care of it, it's out of our hands." I am definitely going to call that number and I can't wait til I get a call back. Thanks again.
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
tackleberry said:
I call bulll****. J tried to get out of my contract for the same reasons and they said it was not possible.
G2x with CM7 and faux ..21 kernel
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First off, let's try to be a bit more respectful...
Now that we got that out of the way. Yes it is possible, but you have to force their hand. They are not going to make it easy because of course they don't want to release you. But if you are persistent enough and talk to enough managers (in the retentions dept) yes you can get out of it.
randyp007 said:
The Sensation should be an easy exchange for all of us disgruntled users. This is absurd that my third one is about to come in and I am about to get my sensation from these guys because being a customer for over a decade will help.
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The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
Erislover said:
The Sensation isn't an easy exchange...it's not about comparable price/quality - it's about manufacturer. Basically, T-Mo would have to eat the cost of the LG phone because they're giving you an HTC replacement. If it had been defective HTC, new HTC replacement --> no problem, the manufacturer eats that. But the "swap" you propose is really just a free phone, as they can't do anything with the LG phone (UNLESS LG has a recall on the g2x, in which case T-Mo would be able to recover cost there...)
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As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
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You're absolutely right. I was just saying it's not an "easy" exchange, like it would be with an HTC<--->HTC exchange. They still wouldn't be obligated to do that under our contracts, but it would be "easy" for the company to accept, as they wouldn't lose beaucoup bucks doing so. Here, though, they eat a lot of loss giving us all new phones (whether at full upgrade price or free).
But amen to what you're saying - they *should* make sure we have phones that work longer than 6 hrs/day and don't reboot randomly throughout the day. (Lucky for me, my phone is running solid on EB 1.5 froyo, and I couldn't be happier with the phone, but I had all the issues complained of before I made the switch, and life is good now....)
mysterioustko said:
As far as a customer is concerned it doesn't really matter who's responsible. At the end of the day customers want and need phones they can rely on. That said I think it's ludicrous that T-Mobile's stance throughout the whole thing is either buy a new phone or wait for an update that they ARE HOPING will fix the issues. At this point, T-Mobile should step up and replace the phones of customers that request it. Regardless of if they have to eat the cost or not, that's what should happen. Not them playing the blame game. Bottom line is they want you to have service with them, so they should ensure that they provide you with a quality device for you to use on said service. Without a device to use the service, there's no point in having service. Also I find it incredibly short sighted on T-Mobile's part that they would rather let you out of your contract and leave them than to just get you a working device. That is such a small picture way of handling things.
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Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
Adam7986 said:
Also 9 times out of 10 there are problems that can easily be fixed with this and and other phones, if they simply replaced the phone anytime it was requested, they would lose huge amounts of money and you as a customer would keep having the same problems because you never got to the root cause.
You also have to understand that a tech support reps job isn't to exchange your phone, it is to fix it. When you go in gun blazing wanting a new phone, we HAVE to try to fix it our it could be our jobs. Applications, usage, TASK KILLERS, batteries and yes even phones all play a part into why this this phone has had problems. Replacing the unit won't fix the issue if it is something with the battery or an app.
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This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
mysterioustko said:
This isn't a tech support issue. This is a customer service (or lack thereof) issue. TMobile is offering a very flawed device...a device that they admit to being flawed...a device flawed to the extent they don't want to offer at this time. So I am to understand they don't want to sell the device to a person because it will cause them problems, but they don't want to replace the devices of those who have already had the misfortune of receiving that device. That is flat out piss poor customer service bottom line. Has nothing to do with tech support...besides to be quite frank, tech support 9 times out of 10 is a waste of time anyway. All they ever do is tell you to reset your phone. It's time for T-Mobile to step up to the plate and take care of their customers and stop making excuses.
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First let me clear something up, I am not speaking on behalf of t-mobile, but that argument is flawed. T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break. Is that a crappy way to look at it, yes, but that is the gods honest truth. If you get a new car and it the brakes go bad you don't replace the whole damn car, you fix whats wrong with it and move on. Now I know cell phones are different, but at the same token if something is wrong with your phone you don't automatically get a brand new one, you fix it.
If it can be fixed, it is fixed. If it can't be fixed then you get a replacement. Will I exchange your device if I can't fix it? Sure, but I AM going to try to fix it. Most times, we don't even fight customers very hard about exchanges, we give in pretty easily.
In all honesty, your beef is with LG, yes we sell the phone, but the warranty is LG's warranty, not T-Mobile's. We decide to save you the hassle of having to send your phone in for repairs and then getting the same device that was broken back. That is what the manufacturer's warranty covers, if the repairs fail to fix the issue, only then will they exchange it for you and guess what, its a refurb. We absorb a lot of that cost and delay as a company, so you, our customer doesn't have to.
And P.S. out of the 25 calls I take a day, I may not be able to resolve 2 of them. That bothers me, truly it does, I want to fix everything. At the same token, if all you want is a new phone, you don't want customer service.
Adam7986 said:
T-mobile is only contractually obligated to provide you with SERVICE, not a device that will never break.
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Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
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(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
Erislover said:
(just fyi, in case you care: the hypothetical case would actually be dismissed for failue to state a claim -- as per at&t v. concepcion, we can't bring cases in court anymore; all disputes are required to be brought in arbitration now.)
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Then take everything I said and replace judge with arbiter.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
I don't get it you had 14 days (30 days in California) to return the device and you kept it so I don't understand these arguments. You could have simply returned the device within that time frame and waited for the next device to be released. Instead you stuck with the device seems like a poor decision on the consumers part.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Adam. You have 14 days or 30 days depending on where you bought it. The phone is brand new. Some phones have a few issues. If yours had issues it would have been apparent in the first several days with plenty of days to make the swap.
The issue with a new device, is that there will be lots of returns and lots of defective refurbs. Every refurb I get is nasty right now because all of the bad screen bleeds are being recycled.
Mine works great aside from a longer then normal GPS lock (something fishy with AGPS). But once you are past your return period, you are stuck with it. If you are unhappy with YOUR choice, then cancel your contract, sell the phone, and move on. It isn't really that difficult.
I think if you are having issues with the phone that is bad enough to make you want to jump to another phone, the $50 upgrade price isn't really that bad since you basically used a brand new phone for at least 2 weeks to a month.
I know $50 is $50 but if I really wanted another phone and was offered the one I wanted for $50, no questions asked... I would go for it.... unless the goal was to get something for nothing.... which isn't right.
Bottom line is you let your return period lapse. They could say, "Sorry we can't help you". But sounds like they are trying and offering various solutions. Whether they aren't good enough for you is another topic.
I'd say take the upgrade for $50 and move on or pay to get out of contract entirely.
BarryH_GEG said:
Wrong answer. By T-Mobile selling the device that's required to utilize the contracted service they are without question culpable if the device fails and you can't enjoy the service. It's even more specific here because the device in question is named the "T-Mobile G2x with Google by LG." I guarantee you if anyone filed in small claims court the judge would nullify the contract and stick T-Mobile with the court costs and possible punitive damages - especially with the shoddy way the whole G2X incident's been handled which would be outed in court. I'm with AT&T because of the G2X and T-Mobile's ass of a response.
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Whether you like it or not, you are indeed wrong. The functionality of a device is not guaranteed by any service provider. Hence why you are allowed to use unlocked devices and such. The only guarantee is that the device sold has to be compatible with the services sold. If a device turns of randomly and there are other issues, your contract with any service provider will not ensure you a new or replaced device because your SERVICE is not impaired, just your usage. I know that is crappy but it is what it is.
When you purchase a device, you are then subject to the terms of use by the manufacturer ONLY. You enter into a separate contract with your service provider. In most countries, devices are not purchased at a discount through a service provider, they are bought outright at full price. The warranty is guaranteed and based on the terms of service and subject to manufacturer discretion. Almost all of the manufacturers require repair before warranty exchange is fulfilled.
Again, service providers decide to accept the brunt of these exchanges and costs associated with them, because customers would rather leave and go to another provider instead of dealing with the hassle. So while a provider is willing to and able to process your exchange and get you a replacement device, it is in no way a requirement of your contract with said provider. The only time this is not true is during a "buyer's remorse" period that is required by most states, but even then the exchange isn't a requirement, just the ability to return the device and receive a refund.
Related
Thought i would share this with the rest of the XDA community who got scammed by Samsung.
A user revolt is starting among the tech blogs and on Twitter about Samsung's absolutely shameful lack of communication on updating its U.S. Galaxy S phones (including the Captivate, Epic, Fascinate, Mesmerize and Vibrant) to Android 2.2.
This is the first article i found posted 1-14.
Samsung Must Come Clean on Android Updates.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375769,00.asp
Here is the second article i found posted on 1-17.
Samsung Forcing US Carriers to Pay for Android Froyo on Galaxy S?
http://www.phonenews.com/samsung-forcing-us-carriers-to-pay-for-android-froyo-on-galaxy-s-15151/#more-15151
Here is the third article i found posted on 1-18.
Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Coming in March?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375940,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fpcmag%2Fbreakingnews+%28PCMag.com+Breaking+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Here is yet another article.
Are Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Updates Being Held Back Because Of Cost?
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/01/16/are-samsung-galaxy-s-froyo-updates-being-held-back-because-of-cost/
I don't know but there is only one way for them to please everyone and get users back on their side.....
Upgrade straight to Gingerbread. That would make all Galaxy S Users happy and probably keep a large % of them customers on their next phone.
Lets be honest, there were certainly issues when Samsung released their version of Froyo to select providers up here in canada. Rogers decided to wait it out and have them work out some bugs that were crippling other galaxy s phones. As you know FROYO is now available on Rogers and Canada being a smaller market, I believe it's being used as as testing ground for the firmware before it's released en mass to the much larger AT&T community. I've been using FROYO since it was launched on the Rogers network and haven't encountered any problems as of yet. I'm also not seeing an onslaught of complaining about phones being bricked or melted due to the release, so it would seem the AT&T update should be along rather soon. But what do i know?
http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-not-charging-carriers-for-galaxy-s-froyo-updates
I certainly hope so and not because i would use the stock firmware but because it would provide a much easier base to dev on than what the captivate devs have to deal with at the current moment.
Reminds me of the **** Apple and Microsoft have done with updates in the past, only in reverse. "Let's update all the devices, but make the new software so robust that the old hardware can't run it!" Only Samsung's case is quite different. Our phones are very capable of new updates.
They've got us by the balls and I'm just about fed up because we're never going to see an update. It just doesn't make sense for them from an economic standpoint and AT&T doesn't want to shell out the money. If I were in business to make and keep as many billions of dollars as possible, I'd probably behave in a similar manner.
Lancez said:
http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-not-charging-carriers-for-galaxy-s-froyo-updates
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That's so arbitrary and conceited. Well, all of this is actually. But Samsung releasing that little utterance just to give us a glimmer of hope is just more hay in the barn and can't possibly be taken seriously. They've been saying the same **** since day 1. Anyone remember what happened with the boy who cried wolf?
upNsmokeAllDay said:
Here is the third article i found posted on 1-18.
Samsung Galaxy S Froyo Coming in March?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2375940,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fpcmag%2Fbreakingnews+%28PCMag.com+Breaking+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
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This would make me the winner of the office pool. Check my signature, been saying it since November.
People think that by complaining loud enough they will get what they want. But honestly the people who are begging for froyo are a small subset of the total handset owners. People who are on xda are the die hard tech people who always want the latest and greatest.
It will happen when it happens
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
We may be a small subset, but we are the ones our friends and family come to for recommendations. All of a sudden, the impact is no longer small.
I have no idea if the rumors are true, I know Phandroid will help spread the rumors but the rumors make sense.
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it, but yes Android 2.1 is a working OS and Android 2.2 is an upgrade. They like most manufactures add bloatware, it does take engineering time to take stock Froyo add the bloat and all the carrier customizations, why should Samsung bother? Makes economic sense for them just to sell a next generation Galaxy S .
I for one love the stock Froyo running on my Rogers Captivate but I will not hold my breath waiting for Samsung to deliver 2.3 or 2.4
I agree at the end of the day 95% of the people will never visit XDA, or run Kies.
The tech geeks do not speak for the majority, this is why there were not line ups for the Nexus One.
Captain Geezer said:
I've been using FROYO since it was launched on the Rogers network and haven't encountered any problems as of yet.
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It's been near perfect for me as well. The only complaints I have are:
1. The proximity sensor is screwed up. During a call, if the phone's screen is facing up the screen will turn back on. This means any time you hold the phone between your head and shoulder, your face starts mashing buttons. It's annoying as hell.
2. The contacts application never exits. It'll remain active in memory unless you end it. If you end it, your desktop disappears for several seconds before returning.
Gingerbread or bust.
Never again.
Sent from my Captivate.
AstroDigital said:
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it, but yes Android 2.1 is a working OS and Android 2.2 is an upgrade. They like most manufactures add bloatware, it does take engineering time to take stock Froyo add the bloat and all the carrier customizations, why should Samsung bother? Makes economic sense for them just to sell a next generation Galaxy S.
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We are not a bunch of whiners unhappy because we don't have the latest update and demanding something we have no right to. We are a group of consumers unhappy that we have been lied to and mislead. Samsung promised this update almost at the same time the phones were released. They promised a time frame in which it would be delivered. They have not followed through on their promises. They are selling accessories for these phones that have features that will only work with the promised updates. That right there is fraud. They have released this update everywhere but in the US, which says to me that it is not a technical consideration that is holding it up. Regardless of what may or may not make sense economically to Samsung, a company that does not keep its promises deserves to have that fact spread to consumers everywhere. Let's see how many next gen Galaxy phones Samsung sells after this debacle.
I've saved them the trouble and gone ahead and switched to T-mobile and a brand new G2 (no nexus s, because I will never buy another samsung device ever again, be it tv, blu-ray player, phone, microwave, toaster, blender, pocket knife, zipper, or plastic guitar pick).
As far as the $200 early term fee? Well, I've paid it, and I will be making a trip to the county courthouse on Friday to file against AT&T in small claims court for knowingly selling a malfunctioning device and breech of contract. Should they actually decide to show up instead of calling me to settle like I expect they will, I will be citing Cuomo v. Dell as a point of reference.
After 2 non-functioning replacements, I'm done with samsung, and to be honest, it really doesn't bother me to make AT&T pay for Samsung's mistake, because AT&T sold me the phone in the first place, and could have easily given me an Iphone as a replacement when I asked them to. Maybe next time they'll think twice about using a manufacturer with a history of repeating this exact same ****.
No class action because, well, let's face it, I don't have the money or the time to pursue a class action, and as a consumer, I know that I won't be putting up with their **** ever again. I just want the contract they conned me into gone, and the $400 for the phone and the ETF back. I would suggest that if any of you are unhappy with the phone that you don't sit around and just put up with it. You need to go get another phone with another carrier, cancel your contract, and file in small claims against AT&T. When word starts spreading of this money will talk and the carriers will listen. Then samsung won't be able to sell their devices to carriers.
Thanks for making that decision easy, Samsung and AT&T.
AstroDigital said:
Samsung sold you a device if it does not work they will fix it
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From experience (2 returns are failures, 1 was DOA) that simply isn't true. Samsung is making users play russian roulette with refurbished phones.
Yup. This whole story just makes me all the more satisfied with my decision to go with the EVO over the EPIC on Sprint. We, EVO owners, were among the very first phones to be updated to FroYo. I've been rockin 2.2 for months now!
Go HTC and go Sprint!
P.S. I have other reasons why I would never by a Samsung phone. For some strange reason, there are way too many apps and mods that are 'not compatible with Galaxy S phones'.
Sent from my EVO rockin' MikFroYo!
leetpriest said:
Should they actually decide to show up instead of calling me to settle like I expect they will, I will be citing Cuomo v. Dell as a point of reference.
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Cuomo v. Dell was about defrauding customers out of money by falsely advertising a 0% interest rate. I think you are going to have trouble convincing a judge that AT&T committed fraud because you would have to prove that they sold you your phone knowing that it had hardware problems that could not be fixed. Since there are thousands of people using Captivates without shutdown issues or other hardware related problems, fraud is a huge stretch, especially when the burden of proof is on you. If you seriously cite Cuomo v. Dell, AT&T may defend against it just to prevent any example from being set.
nkrick said:
Cuomo v. Dell was about defrauding customers out of money by falsely advertising a 0% interest rate. I think you are going to have trouble convincing a judge that AT&T committed fraud because you would have to prove that they sold you your phone knowing that it had hardware problems that could not be fixed. Since there are thousands of people using Captivates without shutdown issues or other hardware related problems, fraud is a huge stretch, especially when the burden of proof is on you. If you seriously cite Cuomo v. Dell, AT&T may defend against it just to prevent any example from being set.
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So there isn't a press release dated Dec 20 out from Samsung instructing AT&T to "Sell through existing inventory" of faulty captivates? Citing that during a small claims hearing may not do much for me, but anyone that purchased a captivate after that press release now has a very real case against samsung and AT&T.
Alas, that's neither here nor there. I couldn't cite that case in the FILING process, or the SERVING process, only during the hearing, which precedes a settlement. You're telling me AT&T might be willing to pay a local attorney thousands, or pay thousands to fly a corp attorney down here to fight over $400?
I don't see it happening. But hey, I could be wrong. They could always attempt to countersue and not win. I didn't ask for your legal advice. I merely suggested that it may be worth everyone's time to send a message to the carriers that Samsung devices shouldn't be sold, that's all. It's not like it's any skin off your back if I win or lose a SMALL CLAIMS case, right?
leetpriest said:
So there isn't a press release dated Dec 20 out from Samsung instructing AT&T to "Sell through existing inventory" of faulty captivates? Citing that during a small claims hearing may not do much for me, but anyone that purchased a captivate after that press release now has a very real case against samsung and AT&T.
Alas, that's neither here nor there. I couldn't cite that case in the FILING process, or the SERVING process, only during the hearing, which precedes a settlement. You're telling me AT&T might be willing to pay a local attorney thousands, or pay thousands to fly a corp attorney down here to fight over $400?
I don't see it happening. But hey, I could be wrong. They could always attempt to countersue and not win. I didn't ask for your legal advice. I merely suggested that it may be worth everyone's time to send a message to the carriers that Samsung devices shouldn't be sold, that's all. It's not like it's any skin off your back if I win or lose a SMALL CLAIMS case, right?
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I applaud your efforts, and i would do the same thing. Small claims court should be an easy victory and here is why:
1. It probably will never get that far, as the cost of the lawyer is in excess of the $ amount - assuming you are only going after the early term fee - I don't think you have a case for anything else
2. There are laws on the books about "merchantability" or "fitness of purpose". I don't AT&T or Samsung engaged in outright, but the simple fact that the phone had defects is enough - it is not dissimilar to invoking the lemon laws for cars.
Cars have 0 day return guarantee, so lemon laws were necessary. As a consumer, you went through the proper process and let them replace your device 2 times yet defects persisted. By then your 30 day return was over.
Document your experience and you should be OK if it goes to court.
I am not a lawyer but i have filed in small claims court in the past and had very good success getting results.
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be told if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
oover the phone to who?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
You will have to call T-Mobile to get S-OFF. Also I was told it wold be in about a month, the same time as the EVO 3D
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
No offense, but one thing I've learned, reps don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
sakuul said:
An HTC rep came to my store today, I was told that S-OFF will not be an OTA.
Rather it will be something you have to request over the phone.
You will have to agree to a TOS and will be to if you do this your warrenty is now void.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this is true then this sucks...i wouldn't want to void my warranty for this.
Well this sucks. Hard.
Just have to wait and see, I read elsewhere where the s-off would not void your warranty, but flashing a custom ROM would.
Did the Rep say when the unlock for the bootloader would be available?
About a month. It's in the third post
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Now usually with any phone I wouldn't think twice...I would do this immediately.
BUT, since I've already returned one Sensation for problems, I do not want to risk voiding my warranty (in case I need it in the future for dust under the screen or something).
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
It makes sense that they'd want to get people to agree to it before they give s-off, that skirts U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how T-Mobile is going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning. I'll go buy a Nexus S, and deal with the lower res screen, slower processor, less ram, no memory expansion, pathetic build quality, and a screen I don't like so that I can do what I want with the device I purchase.
Oh and that Nexus S will be on AT&T, I pay for an AT&T family plan for my parents already, the only reasons I opened a T-Mobile account were to support local business (well the U.S. arm of T-Mobile and HTC at least) and to get the Sensation.
No Offense but sounds bull**** to me..stupid reps dont know what they are talkin about...thats like the presidents maid saying we are bombing russia tomm...Im sure HTC would risk all the bad cred this would cause after they just opened up the Dev section at HTC to a releationship with private DEVS...no way!! Within 2 weeks is my bet!! just long enuff so we dont return under the 30 days,, to be honest idk..it will get figured out by devs here and elsewhere and in the meantime im running a rom i was trying to get perfect on my OG EVO(RIP) for months..now its flawless and on roids!!,,JUST MY OPINION...NO FLAMES>>>
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
There's a reason that hardware manufacturers are required to perform warranty replacements or repairs on devices regardless of the software being used. You'd never hear Acer or HP deny your request for warranty replacement of a bad motherboard simply because you wiped the pre-installed Windows OS for a Linux flavor.
That rep must be smoking some seriously good stuff, as well as be very ignorant of U.S. laws and regulations just to say something like that.
Come to think of it, I'll bet he works undercover for Samsung or Motorolla
_kansei_ said:
If I'm running a custom ROM and my Sensation has a hardware defect down the road, like memory going bad, eating SD cards, the touchscreen not responding, etc and they try to deny my warranty claim, they're violating U.S. law.
I guess that's why they're going to want to get people to agree to it before they'll give them s-off, to get around U.S. consumer protection laws.
If that's how they're going to play this game, I'm going to return the **** out of this phone tomorrow morning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why they have a TOS - Terms of Service. They are not violating any US laws unless they contradict their own TOS. You know when you get your phone and on the manual there's a crap ton of fine prints? or once your phone is turned on and you have to check "I agree". If you took the time to read any of the information in those "TOS" or "policy" than you will understand that their behinds are definitely covered.
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
tigerz0202 said:
So every new phone they sell with an unlocked bootlaoder automatically has no warranty, that don't make sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If any of this is true at all. Than it seems they are going about it similar to getting your phone "unlocked" to go out of country. It's on a "by request" issue and if its in their TOS than if you want it. you abide by it.
mykoe817 said:
Also fyi custom roms or "bad" roms can screw up hardware most definitely. Bad operating systems can chew up sd cards like no other or over drive any type of hardware on the phone, IE graphics unit, processor, memory, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
_kansei_ said:
I'm well aware of that, but the onus is on them to prove that your modification caused the problem. All that gets thrown out the window as soon as they get you to agree to throwing your rights away.
Because of the way I had to exchange my first Sensation (it was a wal-mart early sale, they didn't have any in stock so I cancelled my account and then opened a new one), I have until 5 July to return/cancel everything. Many people who got the pre sale units are already past their return period, and still nothing concrete from HTC. Yes, the most important thing is that they are going to let us to root officially, eventually, also critical to that is the way in which they do it. If it comes with too many strings attached they might as well not have offered it. Given that I'm on Sensation #3, and it too needs to be exchanged (more than a handful of stuck red pixels in a row, and mysteriously a crack in the volume rocker out of the box), I don't trust HTC's hardware enough to agree to throwing my warranty away for the freedom of root.
Classy hardware (most HTC devices) with an anti-consumer manufacturer and carrier < cheap plastic crap hardware (Samsung) and freedom.
No offense to the OP, but I hope to FSM that you are completely wrong about the warranty bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post. And I completely understand where your coming from. I can see HTC stance on this as I work with info-systems for businesses and what they are doing is pretty normal in terms of proprietary software/hardware. When I say proprietary I mean that this software is designed to work with specific hardware only.
Unlike windows/linux or other computer operating systems. Which are not proprietary in terms of hardware utilized. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Computer operating systems are designed to function with a wide range of hardware. Each OS is bundled with thousands of drivers. Also the resource of drivers available online. I work with lots of firewalls. All of which comprise of its own OS. That OS is only designed for that box only. If I mess with that OS, the whole box is no longer under warranty.
I wanna say its more of a privileged that HTC is unlocking their software giving users the privileged to do custom software and etc.
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
I second your comment about the HTC rep.
I'm not too worried. Even if this is true, SOMEONE here is bound to come up with a way to turn S-OFF despite T-mobile or HTC.
Problem here is I think your missing the point... The way I read the OP is that you have to call T-Mobile or whoever...not HTC to get S=OFF. Now correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like a T-Mobile stipulation...not a requirement from HTC. Which would be the "Documentation" another poster was talking about in another thread.
Seems some are jumping the gun by saying "Well if its hardware related ...blah blah; they should replace my phone under warranty." I don't think anyone disputes that. It's when you go and brick your phone with a bad flash or you can't follow directions etc..that that phone is "YOURS" and not for the carrier to eat the cost because you screwed up your phone & want a replacement.
If OP is true, I say its a Carrier stipulation not HTC because they already sold the phone to T-Mobile or whoever already and if your bricking the hell outta phones, HTC is gonna be doing great business with all of the warranty replacements to the Carrier...why would they care ...its the carriers losing money on bricked replacements and the carrier requesting more or less "stipulations" to keep track of people S=Off ing & rooting or flashing their phones.
mykoe817 said:
kinda like driving. its a privileged.
A "Right" is like the 2nd amendment. That's your "Right" to bare arms and protect your family/property.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave some thought to that before I posted. Driving, you have to prove you're at least slightly capable of not killing yourself and others behind the wheel for 5 minutes before they'll give you a license to kill --I mean drive (sorry, hit by a car while cycling recently, I'm still bitter). As a consumer in the U.S., there are laws at the federal and state level that protect our interests against the evil corporations, though only a little of course as those evil corporations have way more power in our government than we do.
It's not a privilege we earn like driving, it's one given to all of us.
Screw dealing with this, I'm getting an iPhone (kidding of course)
Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.
Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.
Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.
Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?
Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,
Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!
Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.
amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
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Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium
I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."
My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3
block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.
I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
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That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
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LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.
Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Ha. Funniest post so far today...
Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
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Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.
atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.
raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.
mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
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They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.
No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
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I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.
geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
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As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
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Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
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When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
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Now that people would definitely believe!
I've submitted two reviews on the Verizon website giving my honest opinion of the device. They have denied posting both times due to what they say violates the guidelines. Admittedly, my first review was rather harsh. After the first denial, I went back and read the guidelines and posted a very toned down version. I didn't post anything that was specifically prohibited in the second review. They did not see it that way and denied posting the second version for the same given reason. Apparently, Verizon will not tolerate ANY criticism of their company by reviewers.
Here are their guidelines:
Verizon values your feedback!
When writing your review, please consider the following guidelines:
Focus on the product and your individual experience using it
Provide details about why you liked or disliked a product
All submitted reviews are subject to the terms set forth in our Terms of Use
We reserve the right not to post your review if it contains any of the following types of content or violates other guidelines:
Obscenities, discriminatory language, or other language not suitable for a public forum
Advertisements, “spam” content, or references to other products, offers, or websites
Email addresses, URLs, phone numbers, physical addresses or other forms of contact information
Critical or spiteful comments on other reviews posted on the page or their authors
In addition, if you wish to share feedback with us about product selection, pricing, ordering, delivery or other customer service issues, please do not submit this feedback through a product review. Instead, contact us directly.
Enjoy writing your review!
What is the text of your review?
KarlStyles said:
What is the text of your review?
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I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
They own the site so they're entitled to filter content as they see fit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
mike163 said:
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
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I don't disagree with anything you said, but it does fall out of their guidelines. It is more a complaint against Verizon than a review of the phone. Maybe the way to go about it is to rephrase it more like a product review. For example, instead of generalizing on limited apps to card, phrase it as your experience. Something like "unlike previous phones, the new android system didn't let me move as many apps to the external card. As a result, I find the 16 gb storage is filling up quickly." Then move to disappointed that Verizon doesn't have 32gb version.
Similarly you can mention that the device runs ok, and Samsung added a feature to turn off system apps in order to conserve battery and reduce clutter. But then move to however there is a lot of bloat that can't be turned off.
I'm not sure what to do with the rooting portion, maybe keep it as a final note rather than making that your main point. I would also add a starting statement of "I've used the phone for x days and here's my impression so far". That may be enough to qualify it to their standard.
Btw, you didn't mention the fact that Verizon disabled two of the main advertised features of the phone - download boost and finger print payments.
You must be maintain guidelines.. All time..
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
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I'm debating going with you to be honest.
thewebsiteisdown said:
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
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Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
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Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
thewebsiteisdown said:
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
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Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
jmill75 said:
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
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Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
thewebsiteisdown said:
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
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LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
jmill75 said:
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
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Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
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Exactly thank you for summing it up for me.
VZW, and ATT, are required by law to allow you to network unlock the device, not boot loader unlock. The carrier covers warranty claims on the device, therefore it is in their interest to minimize the amount of damage "power users" can do to their devices
in my opinion, this trend of carriers locking bootloaders is the direct result of unscrupulous "modders" sending in for warranty or insurance claims after bricking their devices.
finally, we are by far the minority of smartphone users. a very very small percentage of Samsung, or the carriers, customer base and we DO have other options. the Nexus line, HTC with their unlockable bootloaders, GPE, and Dev edition devices.
/rant sorry
Russ77 said:
great input, thanks.
call it whatever you want, companies are in business to make money. if they're giving up profit margin due to fraudulent warranty claims on modified devices, they're well within their rights to sell locked devices.
was anyone here really surprised that the s5 is locked? really?
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How much profit has been lost on this? $10k? $1 million? If you took the entire user base of XDA or any other tech forum and had all of them return broken phones, then you'd attention of a company like VZW. Otherwise, they don't care. They just want to pick a fight they can win easily and make the "modding" community look bad because 1% have not followed directions or are just plain dumb.
A) if you bring in a rooted device that is bricked, they won't even offer you a claim
B) How many people are dumb enough to spend hours on XDA and other sites following instructions and asking questions, only to just give up and go back to VZW/ATT with their bricked phone and say "Idk how this happened?"
Please. These companies aren't in business to make money, they are in business to advance an agenda for shareholders while raking in the money from consumers who have a rapidly disappearing range of options to consider. Cincinnati is a great recent example. Our local provider just got bought out by VZW and at the same time, laid off a decent chunk of staff to make way for the corporate shift. All the while, these same companies lie to the customer with their marketing fluff.
I am not an advocate for one carrier over another, as I have no vested interest in any one of them over another. However, I will say that T-Mo's "in your face" approach to their new marketing is quite polarizing to the rest of the status quo in the industry of "corporate bs doublespeak" where one day you have a contract for $99/mo unlimited everything, and the next, you are paying $130 with a data cap. (Which happens to be what happened to me).
If the PC industry was this way, we wouldn't have half the progress we have seen in the last 20 years. Instead, the PC industry (mac included) embraced unique user created content (hackers included) and actually employed some of those who were great at it to work for them. But, NO, not in the telecom industry. It is the most ridiculous double standard.
So yes, these companies can go shove it. I'm done here. I won't be getting an S5 or and HTC M8 at this point. I have analyzed the phones and neither one is getting the "ok" from me anyhow. I just think it is very interesting how much a company is willing to combat what the "android community," if you can even call it one, has become.
A bunch of polarizing, angry tech loving people who never agree on anything, myself included. Get me out of here. I'm done.
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
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I'm from NKY and just switched from sprint to T-Mobile. I don't get LTE in NKY, and I haven't been to Cinci yet since the switch. That being said, my coverage has been pretty good and so long as I'm in anything resembling civilization I pretty much always get 4g (5-10Mbps). It's not all bad, and hopefully LTE is on the way, Unlimited data is nice, and I have JUMP, so being able to upgrade yearly is awesome as well.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
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They didn't take away unlimited, they basically forced you to opt out of that option in order to pay for contract price phones when you upgrade. I've never had the unlimited, so it's nothing I really bothered to complain about. I did however, end up doubling my coverage for the same price one day 2 years ago when I was on the My Verizon app, and noticed they were offering it. Of course they didn't bother to advertise it anywhere else though.
I will never lose Verizon. I know it sucks how freaking crazy they are locking everything, but there are Devs out there who always find a way. I can not simply give up the best coverage just for root. As much as it might suck one day, not being able to actually use your phone due to **** service would be even worse.
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------
k.electron said:
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
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Samsung phones are superior to HTC. Not just my opinion, but basically backed up by facts. S5 has the best display on the market, hands down. Faster processor, better camera, better layout, better extras. The only thing the HTC has over the S5 is exterior speakers, but honestly, who even uses them that much? You're either listening to music on your headphones, or plugging the phone into better speakers anyways