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Bad Display - HTC's response

Hey all,
I picked up an HTC mytouch 4g while I was down in the US (I'm from Toronto, Canada). After coming back to Toronto and reading the various forums, I realized I had a mytouch 4g with a 'washed out' display. I decided to initiate warranty repair through HTC and, via email, provided them with all the info found on the many forums outlining this issue (threads, videos, etc). After about two months I received the following response:
HTC has thoroughly investigated the situation that you’ve mentioned. We have determined that all MyTouch 4G devices meet our design specifications for LCD performance. HTC has released the following statement in regards to your inquiry:
“HTC is experiencing unprecedented demand for the MyTouch 4G and to meet it we added an additional screen made by Sony to our production lines. The Sony and Sharp screens offer comparable wide viewing angles and fast pixel responses. However, as the technology is proprietary to each company, the crystal structure of the two screens vary slightly, changing how light passes through them. Under most circumstances, any difference in the screens is indistinguishable."
If you are concerned about the brightness of your screen, you can contact our technical support for more information on the screen settings available on the MyTouch 4G. They are available at 866-449-8358.
To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number XXXXX.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
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Not happy with HTC at all

rzak said:
Hey all,
I picked up an HTC mytouch 4g while I was down in the US (I'm from Toronto, Canada). After coming back to Toronto and reading the various forums, I realized I had a mytouch 4g with a 'washed out' display. I decided to initiate warranty repair through HTC and, via email, provided them with all the info found on the many forums outlining this issue (threads, videos, etc). After about two months I received the following response:
Not happy with HTC at all
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That sucks.. I wonder if they have seen two of them side by side.. I luckily got a good screen the first time I bought my mt4g, Now I have to send it back for a warranty replacement and I'm praying that I dont get a replacement with a bad screen, If they do I'm putting it right back in the box and calling them and telling them the replacement they sent me is defective

i guess they were tired of replacing screens =(.. now i dont think im gonna call in anymore x_x

graffixnyc said:
That sucks.. I wonder if they have seen two of them side by side.. I luckily got a good screen the first time I bought my mt4g, Now I have to send it back for a warranty replacement and I'm praying that I dont get a replacement with a bad screen, If they do I'm putting it right back in the box and calling them and telling them the replacement they sent me is defective
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I'm sure they have (I sent them the videos posted online), this is just their way out of this mess.

It sucks, but you have to remember one thing:
The screen works.
Yes it is not as high quality visually as the Sony screen, but it does work. From the reply, it seems like the sharp "bad" screen was the original screen that they chose to use, and the Sony "good" screen was sourced to meet demand.
But even if the sharp screen was the second choice, it doesn't change anything. The screen works, it is not "bad" or faulty, it just doesn't look as good as the other screen type.
The only reason most people are getting replacements, is because t-mobile is footing the bill. It is a customer happiness loyalty thing.

This is the response I also got from HTC -- eventually.
However, the statement that, "Under most circumstances, any difference in the screens is indistinguishable." is hardly true. There's always some variance between screens, especially across manufacturers. But this isn't he case of a slightly different colour balance or slightly different viewing angle contrasts. The difference in contrast, even head-on, but especially at any other viewing angle, is quite obvious.
Whether they should be obligated to replace the poorer screens is debatable, but that there are significant and "distinguishable" differences in this model from unit to unit is not.

Well I see it like this. If you buy a nice lcd tv and see it advertised a certain way then buy it and get it home and open it up and the screen is washed out its either going back to get replaced or going up someones ass. It's there choice but if it didn't get replaced it would be the last time I'd purchase from that particular brand again.

SE7EN- said:
Well I see it like this. If you buy a nice lcd tv and see it advertised a certain way then buy it and get it home and open it up and the screen is washed out its either going back to get replaced or going up someones ass. It's there choice but if it didn't get replaced it would be the last time I'd purchase from that particular brand again.
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Just playing Devil's Advocate here, I indeed have the "bad" screen, but have you seen anywhere, in any MT4G advertisement, where the quality of the screen is advertised?

This is interesting...

At what point did you realize you had to have a replacement? Was it when you read about the "bad" screen online? Surely you played with it before leaving the store where you purchased it and were satisfied enough that you left without issue. The analogy of the TV doesn't really work here because you were able and probably did test drive the exact phone you purchased prior to walking out and going home. It seems to me that you're only now disappointed by the device after learning that yours isn't the coveted version that everyone wants, and that you think you should now bother HTC to have.
There's nothing wrong with the phone, you were happy, deal with it.

Well that is odd

Gotta generally go with Marine and electronic on this one.
Now, do I think it was a bad decision on HTC's part to use two different sources for the screens that differ so greatly? You bet. It definitely reflects badly on HTC regardless of whether the screens are actually defective or not.

electronicrice said:
At what point did you realize you had to have a replacement? Was it when you read about the "bad" screen online? Surely you played with it before leaving the store where you purchased it and were satisfied enough that you left without issue. The analogy of the TV doesn't really work here because you were able and probably did test drive the exact phone you purchased prior to walking out and going home. It seems to me that you're only now disappointed by the device after learning that yours isn't the coveted version that everyone wants, and that you think you should now bother HTC to have.
There's nothing wrong with the phone, you were happy, deal with it.
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Huh? So I shouldn't feel jipped?
Do you agree:
- that HTC used two different displays for the mytouch 4g?
- that one type of display is better than the other?
- that the one with a better display cost exactly the same as the one with the inferior display?
- that it's reasonable to expect a similar experience across users for the same phone?
I think it's absolutely in my right to complain to HTC for their lack of quality control rather than accepting issues I feel they could have corrected (imho)...
Anyhow, I have since moved on and will not be supporting HTC here on in.

Do you agree:
- that HTC used two different displays for the mytouch 4g?
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Yes, and so do many other manufacturers. This just seems to be a poor choice on HTC's part in this instance - it's not a defect. Sharp makes/sources ****ty LCD's, not defective ones. Remind me to never buy a Sharp TV.
- that one type of display is better than the other?
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It seems so, yes. Again, I would probably recommend a Sony over a Sharp.
- that the one with a better display cost exactly the same as the one with the inferior display?
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Yes, and...would you have paid what you paid for your phone if they all had the "inferior" display? I would bet yes. Think of it this way; the MT4G with the "good" display is a better value. That's it.
- that it's reasonable to expect a similar experience across users for the same phone?
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Perhaps, but the experience is similar across devices. What if they change the design of the buttons for the better (recommended), would you expect to get a warranty replacement? Or perhaps if they started putting higher capacity batteries in them, or better yet, used different capacities concurrently for the same model. What then?
I can understand your frustration with HTC. It was a poor choice on their part with the decision to use two vastly different displays. Especially on something as pronounced as a display. I personally believe they should swap your phone out and take the lumps for their bad decision. If nothing more than for preservation of brand image. I mean, what does it say about their quality control, much less customer service and loyalty? However, I don't think they are obligated to do so.
I would recommend that if you continue correspondence with HTC, you take the customer loyalty/brand image road instead of the defect/warranty road. May not work, but it's worth a shot.

kmdub said:
I would recommend that if you continue correspondence with HTC, you take the customer loyalty/brand image road instead of the defect/warranty road. May not work, but it's worth a shot.
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I second that. As it isn't a defective product, they are fighting it. Customer loyalty and brand image are bigger motivators anyway.

I love their response. This whole screen thing is way too overblown.
I have the "washed out" screen and my gf has the "good" one. The difference does not even deserve attention. They're both more than good enough. You guys are just nitpicking to the fullest.

call tmobile and they will send u a replacment, just pray its a good screen. my white 4g was made in china and i have the good screen. my purple mt4g was made in taiwan and has the bad screen

As someone who exchanged a 'bad' screen for a 'good' one, I feel your pain. I went through TMO, so I'd recommend you try that if you can. Seeing as you're up in Canada, may not be a possibility for you.
To those of you saying there's no reason to be upset about having a poorer quality screen, I have to disagree. Having personally had and used both, the difference is very evident. Is the 'bad' screen bad in the sense that it's unusable? Nope. Is it 'bad' in the sense that there's a better alternative out there for the SAME device and price point? Yes. I agree if you can't get the exchange, it isn't so bad as to not be able to use the phone or anything, but I know I was very happy to exchange mine, having seen the difference. Why should half of all MT4G owners own an inferior product? And no matter how you dice it, that's what this is - same prices, different quality. I don't see how you could blame someone for being upset about it.

Mmm..
I think that if you have it on warranty you can change it, if you can't sell it on ebay and buy a different one.

rzak said:
Huh? So I shouldn't feel jipped?
Do you agree:
- that HTC used two different displays for the mytouch 4g?
- that one type of display is better than the other?
- that the one with a better display cost exactly the same as the one with the inferior display?
- that it's reasonable to expect a similar experience across users for the same phone?
I think it's absolutely in my right to complain to HTC for their lack of quality control rather than accepting issues I feel they could have corrected (imho)...
Anyhow, I have since moved on and will not be supporting HTC here on in.
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LOL my point is that you were happy with the phone when you purchased it and only found the need to complain when you read about your phone having a different display.

info on LCD bleed and link to fix

If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php

What was the change in their return policy?

mysterioustko said:
What was the change in their return policy?
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I'm pretty sure this policy change has to do with all the G2x returns/exchanges since they weren't "defective" and we're actually "functional".
http://www.tmonews.com/2011/05/t-mobile-changing-restocking-fees-now-based-on-device/

From the first link you posted
"In general, there is no definite fix for backlight bleeding,..."
"The best way to fix backlight bleed is to have the monitor replaced or avoid LCD's which are known to have bleeding problems all together"
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Backlight bleed is common among inexpensive LCD monitors, this does not mean it's acceptable on a high end smartphone. Any troubles LG or T-Mo are having with returns are more about shoddy manufacturing than they are about picky customers.

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
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It really depends what you call minor. If you are in the 2% of the people that doesn't have that issue or it's minor good for you. For us that have that issue and it's not tolerable will exchange my phones until i get a non-defective one!

Spyvie said:
From the first link you posted
Backlight bleed is common among inexpensive LCD monitors, this does not mean it's acceptable on a high end smartphone. Any troubles LG or T-Mo are having with returns are more about shoddy manufacturing than they are about picky customers.
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You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.

At jacob818
If they want to cut corners then they shouldn't make "HIGH END " DEVICES u don't see the attrix with LCD bleed... u don't see Samsung glaaxy s 2 w bleed plz just stop trolling and trying to make people feel guilty for wanting a phone that u can use in 30% 50% 75% or 100% brightness its our phone I can root it mess with it set the setting how ever I feel like it an it should work 100 %
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor.
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While that may be true if I am paying $500 or even $250 + a 2 year contract I expect something to work as flawlessly as it should be. I dont see anything wrong with exchanging a phone to get what I paid for.
if you paid $500 for a new TV would you be fine with dead pixels in the middle? if you bought a new car would you be fine if only some things worked some of the time?
I think the problem isnt a lot of people exchanging the phones, the problem is LG having the issue the first place and Tmobile changing policy because of the exchanges.
I also have the bleed issue but its not terrible. the only black screens I have noticed it on so far are boot,shutdown and the few times the top 2 corners are all black.
I was going to wait to exchange but Im not sure what my options are now. now that many have been returned I certainly dont want a refurb phone like you get with insurance

jacob808 said:
You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.
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They cut corners by using a cheaper display on the G2x? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IPS display is one of the best around! The AMOLED displays just look vibrant and fake.
High end or not, there will always be a flaw that people will blow out of proportion. It's just how things are made, when your mass producing not every item can be perfect, but they can come pretty close.

omarsalmin said:
They cut corners by using a cheaper display on the G2x? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the IPS display is one of the best around! The AMOLED displays just look vibrant and fake.
High end or not, there will always be a flaw that people will blow out of proportion. It's just how things are made, when your mass producing not every item can be perfect, but they can come pretty close.
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OK so if not every phone will work the same then y did I pay 500+ just like the guy w no LCD bleed no reboots no problems should t I pay less ...we all pay the same price BC we all should get the same device its call quality control
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

jacob808 said:
You have to remember now this is a high end DUAL CORE CPU smart phone. To keep the costs down and be able to have an affordable price for the consumer, they'd have to "cut corners" with some other part of the hardware in order to feature the state of the art Nvidia Tegra 2. It's no wonder they chose to cut corners with a cheaper LCD display then going with AMOLED.
Other manufacturers do this also. I was able to get a Toshiba gaming laptop at the time the intel i7 CPUs and Nvidia's GTX 460m were top of the line at less than $1000. This was a steal when other manufacturer's like Alienware were selling there same internal setups at $1000 more than the Toshiba offering. The reason Toshiba could do this was because they "cut corners" on other parts, giving a cheaper alternative for instance in the keyboard department and using plastic instead of metal for the chassis.
So it seems that LG chose to compromise the screen display with a cheaper alternative, although just as effective as higher end displays, but it would have a minor issue that's common to the "cheaper" manufacturing process of making the specific LCD for the G2x.
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Click to collapse
just because a product has a new edge technology doesn't mean it can be defective in another aspect. I think it's just very hard for us to get over the fact that we are paying that much for a defective product. if the screen is made of a lower technology with no defect, then fine, we can't really complain, but i doubt people will be purchasing the phone.
on another note, thanks for the guide. Since I don't mind my bleeding that much, I wouldn't risk toying with my phone

you dont understand
jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
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Click to collapse
i am on my third g2x. first time i ever returned a phone. the first one had very little back blled some but not a worry im guessing thas wht you have. what you dont understand is my seconnd g2x had so much back light bleed it caused a yellow huge on the screen it was unviewable from any angle other than straight on(which is the big thing with ips screens they allow a pretty good angle view without screen losing color saturation. so im glad your bleed is like my first and now my third minimal and very tolerable(better than my tv) but there are indeed screens out there that have bleed so bad as to make it not usable. my first had such a bad antenna or recep[tion where i now get 11 megs down and 3 uup it wouldnt even complete speed test half the time and if it did it was 0.03 down.
and tmobile can change restocking fee all they want i will not pay a restocking fee for a product that is bad period so they can threaten all they want ill see them in court. im already broke so i have nothing to lose .
restocking fees are for products that you purchased that are in working order but you decided didnt fit your needs not for products that are bad. the horrible back bleed was dated march 23. this 3rd one is dated april 30th. on the back of the box i forgot to look at that on the one wioth the horrible back bleed.
so before you go off on your soap box because you got lucky the first time. dont think that people are just *****ing.
first phone- no recpetion
second phone- terrible back light bleeding, constant reboots, gps would not turn off causing battery to drain only way to turn on or off was with rebooting the phone.
third phone(just got yesterday) rebooted once but i think was a tower update or something. nothing since. backlight bled is minimal good viewing angles no yellow tint.
are there abuses of retunrs yes but there is a reason why the store yesterday had 5 returns in their store. she really tried to push me away from the g2x all together but until sensation comes nothing is comparable. im hoping this one continues to function correctly. it so far has none of the problems that the first 2 had.
its LG and tmobile that are to blame for the returns not the users. the initial batch of g2x's were borked maybe you purchased after this second release that appears to be better.
when paying 600 bucks or committing to someone for 2 years you expect it to function as its advertised, if you just say oh well than they will continue to release subpar products.
just remember just because your device doesnt have the problems people talk about doesnt mean they are overreacting.

jacob808 said:
If you look for flaws in anything, you're guaranteed to find it and then you'll always focus on it, no matter how minor. We have witnessed this in the initial days of the G2x and when someone pointed out the "screen bleed" it was blown out of proportion and many many people kept on abusing tmobile's return/exchange policy trying to get a "perfect" handset.
Anyway, without going into how this has destroyed a potentially awesome phone into a now "free give away" (and maybe now less supported model, oh don't let me get into the change in return policy that tmobile just recently updated, because of the abuse), I just wanted to lessen the impact of new adapters buying the phone and then coming to these forums only to read about the minor screen bleed and think about exchanging their's, so I'll post this link about how very common screen bleed is on LCD's and in the article is a link to a do it yourself fix. Here's the link http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/backlight-bleeding.php
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Click to collapse
First of i do want to thank you for finally posting on the screen bleed issue. Like jacob has said if you look for flaws you with always find somthing. if you are a perfectionist and expect the device to be PERFECT as soon as it is released you might as well go spend your money on a something that has been out for a while. I work for TMO and my screen leaks just a bit of light as well in the upper corners. but you dont even notice it unless you are on a black screen. Its a new device there are going to be flaws. Just please be patient while they all get worked out.

kinda right
gb091685 said:
First of i do want to thank you for finally posting on the screen bleed issue. Like jacob has said if you look for flaws you with always find somthing. if you are a perfectionist and expect the device to be PERFECT as soon as it is released you might as well go spend your money on a something that has been out for a while. I work for TMO and my screen leaks just a bit of light as well in the upper corners. but you dont even notice it unless you are on a black screen. Its a new device there are going to be flaws. Just please be patient while they all get worked out.
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reboots, gps issues yeh they may be software related. the phones that do have the horrible backlight bleeding can not be fixed by software so waiting for an update wont fix this. i too was sceptical about all the backlight bleeding complaints since my first and third are like yours. but there are phones out there with very bad backlight bleeding. but using hardware for a long time i never thought of posting that you are just overreacting i was glad mine didnt have that problem. and why i tried everytihng not to return my first phone and i got what i was scared of the batch that people on here are complaining about . thiese horrible phones are for real. they are out there.

I like how out of 4 different g2xs ive had ALL of them had bleeding in different spots and worse in each of there own ways.... If it was "meant to bleed" you think it would be standard and in one area.....,ill replace all the g2xs I want... I will not pay anything more... (shipping/restock) its good to be a loyal customer and get good service
Let alone I got the g2x for free the day it was released (4/15) im not gonna complain to much
And another note.... Ive seen two other LG android phones (vortex and the other verizon one)
They dont bleed at all...... Hmmmmm sounds like tmobile just got the ****ty versions of a good phone again (i1900/vibrant)
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

nate420 said:
I like how out of 4 different g2xs ive had ALL of them had bleeding in different spots and worse in each of there own ways.... If it was "meant to bleed" you think it would be standard and in one area.....,ill replace all the g2xs I want... I will not pay anything more... (shipping/restock) its good to be a loyal customer and get good service
Let alone I got the g2x for free the day it was released (4/15) im not gonna complain to much
And another note.... Ive seen two other LG android phones (vortex and the other verizon one)
They dont bleed at all...... Hmmmmm sounds like tmobile just got the ****ty versions of a good phone again (i1900/vibrant)
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
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How did you get the phone for free
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

I'm on my first and only G2x, no bleeding. For every complaint on here, there are handfuls of people who don't have the problem and don't create threads like this.
Return as many times as you wish, that's what the warranty is there for.

I don't know about you guys but I can deal with having some slight lcd bleeding issues over running the risk of performing a return/exchange and end up with a rebooting lemon....

i agree
Vaddy23 said:
I don't know about you guys but I can deal with having some slight lcd bleeding issues over running the risk of performing a return/exchange and end up with a rebooting lemon....
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this one bleeds a little but totally tolerable. thats why i ddint want to return the first one because i just wasnt getting the problems peoiple were reporting other than the soignal issue but i was seeing full bars was just not getting any speed. and the second was my worst nightmare horrible. this one seems to be good so far? i hope it stays that way. i have been payong 2 contracts since i dont want to pay verizons early term fee until im sure i have a replacement phone. it does make me laugh how people think we should put up with a shotty produyct because its new . if the product isnt good dont release it. i can put up with my tv not having hulu yet and waiting a couple months. i couldnt put up with a internt tv not connecting to the internet. waiting for a software enhancemnet is one thing bad hardware is different and should not be tolerated in any new product.

The problem that I have with threads like these is the OP comes off like a corporate douchbag. I've posted on other threads with the same response just like I will with this one. The fact that you are talking down to ppl who spend hard earned money on a product that expect quality is quite repulsive. Just because YOU accept mediocrity in products that YOU purchase doesn't mean I nor anyone who expect quality in our products have to agree. Nor will we accept you talking down to us as if we are some how dumb for wanting quality in our products.....Also there are these firestone tires I wish to sale you brandnew from about 5 years ago....

I am still not convinced of this Project Ara thing. I still think it's a scam.

No matter how I think about it, still makes no sense. I still think people who are working on this are either seriously mistaken, or intentionally participating in a scam for development funding.
Modularity Overhead, Physical Size
This is the number 1 huge in your face problem they have to deal with, and people don't seem to be taking this seriously enough. The guy at the conference bragged about "25%" overhead, which already seems impossibly small. But even if it were true, it still wouldn't be small enough. Simple question, would you buy a Galaxy S5 that's 25% heavier and 25% thicker and 25% larger around the edges? You would not! Because no smartphone is that big! It's enormous! And it'll be over 10mm thick! Who the **** buys a 10m+ thick phone now days?
The latest prototype they have now has about 100% overhead in volume.
"Benefits" to a Modular Phone
Simply put, it does not exist, period. Remember your last phone? Why did you upgrade to the new Droid Turbo? Because it has the Snapdragon 805 chip? Or because it has a 2k screen? Or was it the camera? Or maybe? ALL OF THEM? The ASSUMPTION in the original phone block video, that people upgrade or swap phones because of a single component is simply false! Because
Firstly, modern phones are so incredibly reliable that none of the components ever get broken except the screen.
Secondly, you can replace your screen for possibly cheaper than it would cost to buy a new Ara screen module!
Thirdly, It would be stupid to put a 2k screen on your Ara phone with Snapdragon 400 SoC because it will lag this **** out of you. And who is ever going to upgrade from a 720p screen to another 720p screen?
Forthly, It's equally stupid to put a 20MP camera on your phone with Tegra 3 SoC because it doesn't support 20MP cameras! And even if it did you don't want a laggy ass camera experience do you? And neither do you want to viewfind a 20MP camera with your WVGA screen!
So, the assumptions that people would want to swap out modules, and the assumption that people change phones because a single component has failed, are BOTH FALSE! But sadly these are what the Ara project is entirely based on!
Other problems
How the **** are you going to build a centralised communications board that supports the bandwidth requirements of components even a year in the future? Without itself being ultra futuristic and expensive from the start? Because you don't want it to bottleneck your camera for 4K recording. Or you new 2k screen. Or your ultra fast LTE Cat-6 modem.
One of the biggest reasons people want to change phones is battery life. How the **** are you going to fit bigger batteries without it bulging out at a random corner and make the phone difficult to balance on your hand and a million times more ugly than the extruding camera on the iPhone 6? Because the grid is fixed and has a super small slot for the battery?
Another big reason people change phones is screen size. Well no luck here because you can't change screen size. So you can maybe change to a marginally better screen at the cost of a hundred dollars or more.
Drop the phone and have your components scatter all over the place. Or have a back cover to further increase thickness. But oh wait, you can't have a back cover because some of your components like the high end camera and big battery are bulging out in a CUSTOMISED and UNIQUELY YOURS way that you can't find a suitable back cover. Maybe you can try duck tape?
Target Market
Who is the target consumer of this device? People who don't already have a smartphone you said? How about they but a Chinese smartphone for $100 that will work just fine until the screen is smashed and have it replaced for $10? Rather than spending $200 on a mid-high range piece of **** like this and loose components because they fell off into the gutter on the side of the street? I mean these high precision engineering aren't cheap, and the end result can't be cheap either!
Maybe enthusiasts just like people who build their own PCs? Yeah good luck with the fixed screen size! What about the Galaxy S6 which is cheaper (because no need for the electro magnet and extra systems like central skeleton), thinner lighter smaller, with bigger screen and bigger battery? Now don't tell me you can swap out the GPU on your project Ara phone! As a PC gamer myself I don't even swap parts on my PC that often. Except the storage (*cough* micro SD card), and the graphics card.
Or maybe people who don't really care how their phone worked, as long as it does? Regular consumers? Like iPhone users? Yea right!
Sorry for long post. But I just don't get it.

Uh, Project Ara is a Google project...
I highly doubt Google would risk running a scam.
And dont forget it's just the first prototype. They start the downscaling once it works, not beforehand.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

jacobgong said:
....I still think people who are working on this are either seriously mistaken, or intentionally participating in a scam for development funding.....
Or It's a curtain maybe they are working on alien-powered new devices...
...You would not! Because no smartphone is that big! It's enormous! And it'll be over 10mm thick! Who the **** buys a 10m+ thick phone now days?
The latest prototype they have now has about 100% overhead in volume.
Big sells, now lets see if heavy and bulgy sell ...
Forthly, It's equally stupid to put a 20MP camera on your phone with Tegra 3 SoC because it doesn't support 20MP cameras! And even if it did you don't want a laggy ass camera experience do you? And neither do you want to viewfind a 20MP camera with your WVGA screen!
Yeah pretty much ... totally stupid!
So, the assumptions that people would want to swap out modules, and the assumption that people change phones because a single component has failed, are BOTH FALSE! But sadly these are what the Ara project is entirely based on!
I think a certain category of user would, but this kind of user keep awake at night to scout the net for the cheapest possible hardware so it's a bit like selling a 20$ burger at McDonald
How the **** are you going to build a centralised communications board that supports the bandwidth requirements of components even a year in the future? Without itself being ultra futuristic and expensive from the start? Because you don't want it to bottleneck your camera for 4K recording. Or you new 2k screen. Or your ultra fast LTE Cat-6 modem.
I told you previously: ALIEN hardware (LOL)
One of the biggest reasons people want to change phones is battery life. How the **** are you going to fit bigger batteries without it bulging out at a random corner and make the phone difficult to balance on your hand and a million times more ugly than the extruding camera on the iPhone 6? Because the grid is fixed and has a super small slot for the battery?
The answer: it will sport a crappy battery ! Or the aliens could help here too E.T had great batteries in his ship!
Another big reason people change phones is screen size. Well no luck here because you can't change screen size. So you can maybe change to a marginally better screen at the cost of a hundred dollars or more.
Best way to piss off customers: upgrades that cost more than the device
Drop the phone and have your components scatter all over the place. Or have a back cover to further increase thickness. But oh wait, you can't have a back cover because some of your components like the high end camera and big battery are bulging out in a CUSTOMISED and UNIQUELY YOURS way that you can't find a suitable back cover. Maybe you can try duck tape?
Yeah your right magnets wont hold for sure , but again the aliens!
Or maybe people who don't really care how their phone worked, as long as it does? Regular consumers? Like iPhone users? Yea right!
Not me for sure (or you for that matter)
Sorry for long post. But I just don't get it.
me neither!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will you pre-order ?
P.S you forgot to bash the name!
ARA are HUGE parrots godamn sign of things to come?!

would you believe
LOL. you see the very best answer if you are a XDA user and YOu still don't believein Google project ara, There are people on earth even still today those who believe NASA never send MAN on MOON. They did everything in earth in desert...
Believe my friend . Its true. Even one of leading newspaper in India has posted a review and a big article that they saw a prototype.

sachoosaini said:
LOL. you see the very best answer if you are a XDA user and YOu still don't believein Google project ara, There are people on earth even still today those who believe NASA never send MAN on MOON. They did everything in earth in desert...
Believe my friend . Its true. Even one of leading newspaper in India has posted a review and a big article that they saw a prototype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know there is a prototype and I know the prototype is real. The question being raised here is also not whether it's technically feasible with limitless budget, which would be the case for the Apollo landings.
This is a consumer product and MONEY is a huge factor. I have no doubt that they could do it technically, but there is no reason to believe that such a product would be economically competitive to other products made by equally smart engineers, backed by equally rich companies.

jacobgong said:
I know there is a prototype and I know the prototype is real. The question being raised here is also not whether it's technically feasible with limitless budget, which would be the case for the Apollo landings.
This is a consumer product and MONEY is a huge factor. I have no doubt that they could do it technically, but there is no reason to believe that such a product would be economically competitive to other products made by equally smart engineers, backed by equally rich companies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Money is always the factor. But what you see when the computer was first launched it is a thing for very rich people. But if u see today the you hold computer In your hand. Well right the cellphone. It's the baby born from technological advancements that happened over the passage of years. Companies worked to bring down the cost of those hammer head computers.
Same goes here. Today we have so much technological advancements that has made the pace of development very high. The project at first look very alien to people but once its started it comes to life. Don't worry its Google who need to be worried about how they gonna make it that much cheap. Now to people Google glass seem very bad device though it is not. As we move toward future things and uses will start getting clear. So just let the things have their way up to the end. Google is not small company who bet without thinking anything on Ara. Well now Google holds the patents from Motorola. People questioned why google acquired Motorola. Well for patents for sure....why Microsoft bought Nokia just for their patents. Its money....
Sent from my XT1033 using XDA Free mobile app

sms - Message Failed. Would you like to retry

Ever since Updating to the official MM RUU posted in these forums I, and others are stating that they have been getting the following message:
Sending SMS messages
Message failed. Would you like to retry?
Deny Allow
(attached)
I aim opening this in an attempt to try and ascertain what the issue could be. As Nobody seems to have an answer in what limited fashion I asked.
This is on the Official firmware RUU by dottat ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...pment/stock-m-firmware-nand-recovery-t3330972 ).
It was stated elsewhere that this matter was resolved by another dev, but am unable to determine how possibly that was done
This easily happens multiple times a day if I text frequently

carm01 said:
Ever since Updating to the official MM RUU posted in these forums I, and others are stating that they have been getting the following message:
Sending SMS messages
Message failed. Would you like to retry?
Deny Allow
(attached)
I aim opening this in an attempt to try and ascertain what the issue could be. As Nobody seems to have an answer in what limited fashion I asked.
This is on the Official firmware RUU by dottat ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...pment/stock-m-firmware-nand-recovery-t3330972 ).
It was stated elsewhere that this matter was resolved by another dev, but am unable to determine how possibly that was done
This easily happens multiple times a day if I text frequently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's odd.
That happened to me before I updated, updating with the ruu fixed it. That was my fix personally, maybe try redownloading the ruu and trying again? I used the first ruu posted by dottat when the marshmallow update dropped.

BadUsername said:
That's odd.
That happened to me before I updated, updating with the ruu fixed it. That was my fix personally, maybe try redownloading the ruu and trying again? I used the first ruu posted by dottat when the marshmallow update dropped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did the RUU, and set it back up. Needless to say this permission garbage in MM is for the birds. I reverted to NEO's rom, and low and behold that message reared its ugly head again. I am beginning to think it is firmware related.
Since I am on my second and last M8 both due to charging port failures I have decided to abandon the M8 permanently, as it is at the end of its life anyways and not worth getting another, and MM has been a horrible experience honestly.. i thought windows 10 permissions were bad
Best Regards

carm01 said:
I did the RUU, and set it back up. Needless to say this permission garbage in MM is for the birds. I reverted to NEO's rom, and low and behold that message reared its ugly head again. I am beginning to think it is firmware related.
Since I am on my second and last M8 both due to charging port failures I have decided to abandon the M8 permanently, as it is at the end of its life anyways and not worth getting another, and MM has been a horrible experience honestly.. i thought windows 10 permissions were bad
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.

BadUsername said:
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC 10 has no IR blaster.
I'm a bit upset myself about this but I honestly didn't use it much.

andybones said:
The HTC 10 has no IR blaster.
I'm a bit upset myself about this but I honestly didn't use it much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it doesn't, I love my IR blaster, I hate having my normal TV remote and it's nice having sole access to my TV through my phone.

BadUsername said:
Ya I'm not sure what to say, I replaced the charging port on mine myself, not a hard fix at all. $12 for the port, $5 for spudger, $9 for the all-in-one screwdriver, and $5 for antistatic tweezers. Though for approximately $40 it may not be worth it to you. I'm hoping the next htc phone has an IR blaster, so I'm going to run this device into the ground.
But I have no idea what could be causing your sms issues. My guess it would have to be firmware related, possibly area specific. On stock I haven't really noticed any problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know I just want a phone that works. I never had issues with any of my other HTC phones and charging port failures. I know its easy, but why fool with it if HTC is not going to support their phones for more than 2 years?
I love HTC phones but their 2 year support life span, and slow updates is frustrating to me. its like dropping 300 to 400 or more every two years for a phone just to stay current with security issues/fixes.

carm01 said:
You know I just want a phone that works. I never had issues with any of my other HTC phones and charging port failures. I know its easy, but why fool with it if HTC is not going to support their phones for more than 2 years?
I love HTC phones but their 2 year support life span, and slow updates is frustrating to me. its like dropping 300 to 400 or more every two years for a phone just to stay current with security issues/fixes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your point, but what phone do you know of that is supported over 2 years?
Hardware failures in my opinion simply happen. Wear and tear on a device takes its toll. The only phone that I know have that have better support is an iPhone. Even then, the device you purchase won't be supported after a few years at most. I've also seen some terrible hardware failures associated with them as well.
I understand not wanting to fix it, but after my charging port broke, I just figured it was worth it to me to replace it myself. I like everything about this phone.

BadUsername said:
I understand your point, but what phone do you know of that is supported over 2 years?
Hardware failures in my opinion simply happen. Wear and tear on a device takes its toll. The only phone that I know have that have better support is an iPhone. Even then, the device you purchase won't be supported after a few years at most. I've also seen some terrible hardware failures associated with them as well.
I understand not wanting to fix it, but after my charging port broke, I just figured it was worth it to me to replace it myself. I like everything about this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All my devices I take excellent care of. Always cased, screen protectors, never; well extremely rarely dropped. If it was not for the lack of support, and red camera garbage i would still be using my m7 as it is still perfect, just no support.
As far as iphone goes. They have software support for 5 years on average, and they hold their value very well. i decided to go with an 6S and it is ungodly fast and responsive. I know some are going to curse me, but it is my choice. I got free WIFI calling and VOLTE. Anyways I got 12 more days to decide before the purchase is final. I understand certain things about it and was aware before I made my decision
I would have gone with the moto pure, however i do not want a phablet, I want something i can hold and work on in one hand. If the M7 was supported I would still be using it ( that damn red or yellow camera crap is annoying blunder that HTC seriously dropped the ball on ).
I would have chose nexus 5x but I found out the USC-C is 2.0 speed, and limited to 32 gigs
Anyways

carm01 said:
All my devices I take excellent care of. Always cased, screen protectors, never; well extremely rarely dropped. If it was not for the lack of support, and red camera garbage i would still be using my m7 as it is still perfect, just no support.
As far as iphone goes. They have software support for 5 years on average, and they hold their value very well. i decided to go with an 6S and it is ungodly fast and responsive. I know some are going to curse me, but it is my choice. I got free WIFI calling and VOLTE. Anyways I got 12 more days to decide before the purchase is final. I understand certain things about it and was aware before I made my decision
I would have gone with the moto pure, however i do not want a phablet, I want something i can hold and work on in one hand. If the M7 was supported I would still be using it ( that damn red or yellow camera crap is annoying blunder that HTC seriously dropped the ball on ).
I would have chose nexus 5x but I found out the USC-C is 2.0 speed, and limited to 32 gigs
Anyways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, nobody is going to grill you for getting a 6s.
Yes, software support is definitely a reason to get an iphone. I just don't agree with their premium pricing for their handsets and their closed sourced software. Not much innovation going on there, but not everyone needs something that's more than that. I just think you're paying an absurd amount for something that you can't customize at all, not to mention lack of storage space and inferior specs compared to newer android models. And yes I know, specs aren't everything, but truthfully you're paying a lot more for a lot less.
Reasons to get an android revolve around customization and truly being able to change any aspect of your phone. I think with the new doze feature and the improvements google is probably going to make to it, it's going to blow apple out of the water in terms of battery life and overall efficiency. Pretty exciting stuff, it's nice being able to set my phone down at work, pick it up for lunch and having it at 90% battery, despite it being over 2 years old. It's also much easier to fix problems that arise with them, if you're having a problem with your iphone regarding anything related to this there is literally no way to fix it yourself. Take it to the apple store and have them tell you something along the lines of, "sorry, we're unable to revert your phone back to the previous version that worked, but I think we should try a factory reset, have you tried that yet?" like you have no idea how to operate it in the first place . It makes me laugh and frustrates me that there's literally no way to apply any of my knowledge regarding ADB and linux to fix an iphone. If someone comes to me about a problem with their phone, I always tell them, "Well, if you had an android I could probably fix that issue, but I can't fix an iphone."
The last thing I'd buy an iphone for is hardware quality. A friend of mine had a bent iphone 6, a few months ago. Apple refused to replace it for him even though the phone had no other physical damage to it. Now he's like "wow, you're phone is awesome and you can use it as a TV remote too, maybe I'll get an HTC instead next upgrade." It was bent due their manufacturing issues and quality problems after the initial launch, which to me was very well documented. That also would be something I would consider.
To each his own, however there really isn't much out there that's Verizon compatible that I would tell you to get instead. Main reason I'm not getting a phone this year is because nothing looks worth it in my opinion. Maybe LG won't make such an ugly phone, or HTC will put the IR blaster back and integrate their fingerprint scanner into the power button or something. I just won't buy an iPhone because I don't want to be like everyone else, and I don't want to support a company that locks and discourages development on their devices. If everyone had an iPhone this world would be a pretty sad place, a monopoly on a product that discourages creativity and imagination from the general public. Where would our smartphone technology be without android? I doubt we'd have NFC, IR blasters, HD screens, Micro-sd storage options, etc. Apple would have never put anything in because everyone will buy their phones anyway.
Anyway rant done, iPhone 6s is a good device for what it is. I don't think people here will grill you for getting one, they definitely have some advantages that are nice and that I think would be nice if Android wasn't so fragmented. But that's the price you pay for open source software and many companies making competing products. I wouldn't have it any other way.

BadUsername said:
Haha, nobody is going to grill you for getting a 6s.
Yes, software support is definitely a reason to get an iphone. I just don't agree with their premium pricing for their handsets and their closed sourced software. Not much innovation going on there, but not everyone needs something that's more than that. I just think you're paying an absurd amount for something that you can't customize at all, not to mention lack of storage space and inferior specs compared to newer android models. And yes I know, specs aren't everything, but truthfully you're paying a lot more for a lot less.
Reasons to get an android revolve around customization and truly being able to change any aspect of your phone. I think with the new doze feature and the improvements google is probably going to make to it, it's going to blow apple out of the water in terms of battery life and overall efficiency. Pretty exciting stuff, it's nice being able to set my phone down at work, pick it up for lunch and having it at 90% battery, despite it being over 2 years old. It's also much easier to fix problems that arise with them, if you're having a problem with your iphone regarding anything related to this there is literally no way to fix it yourself. Take it to the apple store and have them tell you something along the lines of, "sorry, we're unable to revert your phone back to the previous version that worked, but I think we should try a factory reset, have you tried that yet?" like you have no idea how to operate it in the first place . It makes me laugh and frustrates me that there's literally no way to apply any of my knowledge regarding ADB and linux to fix an iphone. If someone comes to me about a problem with their phone, I always tell them, "Well, if you had an android I could probably fix that issue, but I can't fix an iphone."
The last thing I'd buy an iphone for is hardware quality. A friend of mine had a bent iphone 6, a few months ago. Apple refused to replace it for him even though the phone had no other physical damage to it. Now he's like "wow, you're phone is awesome and you can use it as a TV remote too, maybe I'll get an HTC instead next upgrade." It was bent due their manufacturing issues and quality problems after the initial launch, which to me was very well documented. That also would be something I would consider.
To each his own, however there really isn't much out there that's Verizon compatible that I would tell you to get instead. Main reason I'm not getting a phone this year is because nothing looks worth it in my opinion. Maybe LG won't make such an ugly phone, or HTC will put the IR blaster back and integrate their fingerprint scanner into the power button or something. I just won't buy an iPhone because I don't want to be like everyone else, and I don't want to support a company that locks and discourages development on their devices. If everyone had an iPhone this world would be a pretty sad place, a monopoly on a product that discourages creativity and imagination from the general public. Where would our smartphone technology be without android? I doubt we'd have NFC, IR blasters, HD screens, Micro-sd storage options, etc. Apple would have never put anything in because everyone will buy their phones anyway.
Anyway rant done, iPhone 6s is a good device for what it is. I don't think people here will grill you for getting one, they definitely have some advantages that are nice and that I think would be nice if Android wasn't so fragmented. But that's the price you pay for open source software and many companies making competing products. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I understand all your concerns, and I am with you on the price, and it will be one of the deciding factors as well as Itunes which I am finding most frustrating to use to add files to the device. So i got a few days to think about it.

After a week, I've had a change of heart...

I've either cognitively dissonated myself into loving this phone, or it is really quite good. The official camera fix did some good and leaves open the good possibility that further refining will yield a great result, or I'll stick with the progress being made on the GCam port and use the native app for great monochrome shots (I love the B&W sensor and it is EXCELLENT). That said, no cases... I guess no problem - I ordered some SquareTrade insurance coverage today - if it drops or dies, they'll replace it for a hundred beans - I can handle that kind of coverage...
I'm not seeing the same quality defects others are reporting with their handsets (light bleed, TMOB signal issues, etc.) so either I got a keeper or others are being overly sensitive (nothing personal guys).
I asked for and will likely receive a return package, but I think I'll be sending it back empty. Sorry for the trouble Essential, but you are in my daily carry category now - my S8+ will stay ready for outdoor action as needed (water resistance, etc).
The aesthetics are what has done it for me... Maybe you feel the same? The feeling I get holding and using the Essential do indeed remind me of the first day with the OG iPhone - only ten years better. Hell - I still have some great pics I took with that lousy 2MP, fixed focus, no flash shooter from 2007 on my drive.
Anyway, just one man's changed opinion. If it grew on you too, please post your thoughts. I'm interested to know how many others have now caved.

rootdude said:
I've either cognitively dissonated myself into loving this phone, or it is really quite good. The official camera fix did some good and leaves open the good possibility that further refining will yield a great result, or I'll stick with the progress being made on the GCam port and use the native app for great monochrome shots (I love the B&W sensor and it is EXCELLENT). That said, no cases... I guess no problem - I ordered some SquareTrade insurance coverage today - if it drops or dies, they'll replace it for a hundred beans - I can handle that kind of coverage...
I'm not seeing the same quality defects others are reporting with their handsets (light bleed, TMOB signal issues, etc.) so either I got a keeper or others are being overly sensitive (nothing personal guys).
I asked for and will likely receive a return package, but I think I'll be sending it back empty. Sorry for the trouble Essential, but you are in my daily carry category now - my S8+ will stay ready for outdoor action as needed (water resistance, etc).
The aesthetics are what has done it for me... Maybe you feel the same? The feeling I get holding and using the Essential do indeed remind me of the first day with the OG iPhone - only ten years better. Hell - I still have some great pics I took with that lousy 2MP, fixed focus, no flash shooter from 2007 on my drive.
Anyway, just one man's changed opinion. If it grew on you too, please post your thoughts. I'm interested to know how many others have now caved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really want to like it, I'm trying real hard.
The performance sucks and is not faster than a Moto Z with a Snapdragon 821.
This phone does some really aggressive thermal throttling.
This bothers me.
I really want to like it.

I kind of came to the same conclusion the other day. Software can always be improved with updates, and there's not another phone out there built with better materials. It looks, feels, and is, an upscale phone.

tech_head said:
I really want to like it, I'm trying real hard.
The performance sucks and is not faster than a Moto Z with a Snapdragon 821.
This phone does some really aggressive thermal throttling.
This bothers me.
I really want to like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested to hear what you know about thermal throttling. I'm a power user and I play Royale like an idiot and I haven't even felt it get warm, nor do I see the incredible battery drain I see with other devices I've played on in the past (the Pixel XL was the worst for that power drain). Do you have CPUZ installed on it and can get some screenies of the throttling b/c of overheat conditions?

rootdude said:
I'm interested to hear what you know about thermal throttling. I'm a power user and I play Royale like an idiot and I haven't even felt it get warm, nor do I see the incredible battery drain I see with other devices I've played on in the past (the Pixel XL was the worst for that power drain). Do you have CPUZ installed on it and can get some screenies of the throttling b/c of overheat conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see/feel the phone get hot. That's the point, before it even gets hot the CPU gets throttled.
If I artificially cool the device or I'm in a cold environment; I can run Antutu and get close to the Qualcomm numbers for their reference platform in the 178k range. I can do that only in a cold environment. If the device is in a warm room the performance drops to 160k or so. If the room is hot or if I try to run again the performance can drop to 150k. I have seen the results drop to below 120k.
Geek bench scores are somewhat better but not great.
1900 single core and 6000 multicore.
The renderscript score is about 8000. Which puts in 33% behind an iPhone 7.

The software grew on me as more mods and ADB tweaks come out...but every time I decide to keep it and slap a skin of the back I find new scratches. Now I even have a scratch on the finish on the titanium. No clue where any of these came from. I haven't had a scratch on a phone in years... I upgrade every few months and always sell my phones mint on Swappa. I've had this a week and it's already scratched to ****. I love the look and feel and I'm happy with the software now but man..it's getting destroyed.

NeutronBomb said:
The software grew on me as more mods and ADB tweaks come out...but every time I decide to keep it and slap a skin of the back I find new scratches. Now I even have a scratch on the finish on the titanium. No clue where any of these came from. I haven't had a scratch on a phone in years... I upgrade every few months and always sell my phones mint on Swappa. I've had this a week and it's already scratched to ****. I love the look and feel and I'm happy with the software now but man..it's getting destroyed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. Mine still looks like it just came out of the box, and it even took a 4 foot tumble to my bathroom floor the other day.

So I hope the new update improves performance.
Right now if the phone gets to an internal temp of 44C it will throttle to less than half the maximum frequency.
This puts the performance, when warm, behind and LG G4, Samsung Galaxy S6 and my old Nexus 6P.
Not happy.

I'm battling the decision now. I'm still in that 15 day return window, and like others am trying really hard to want to like this device.
Love the display. Don't mind that it's not AMOLED - I still get 5-6 hours SoT with moderate-heavy internet/call/text on wifi w/bt connected. No light bleed issues or lifting of panels for me, everything seems in order there.
There are some problems with the software that make me wonder if the problems I have are hardware or software. The micro-stuttering during scrolling (only while touching the screen during scrolling) could be a hardware problem, could be throttling, or could be OS optimization for this device in general. It's smooth as butter as long as I flick-scroll. Even if I slow finger-scroll vs slow flick-scroll the difference is noticeable, goes from stutter to butter. Finger-on-screen lag is like that of a bloated EVO3D trying to flip homescreens.
Then there are the definite software glitches that are present even after a full wipe of the phone (I really wish you could wipe the cache partition on this thing). This includes the occasional 10 second freeze while scrolling, the microstutters mentioned above, having to press back twice when in a conversation in the default messaging app, random screen presses when not touching the screen, regularly having to tap the screen repeatedly to get response from buttons.
And then there's the support - it takes a very long time to get response. I realize they are busy and trying to be responsive, and I am really trying to support this new company... One of the biggest problems I have is for solely existing as a consumer communications device manufacturer, they have some terrible consumer communication processes happening (or complete lack thereof). All I really want to know is that they are aware of and are working on the specific issues. Maybe I have control issues, but the dark is not a friendly place to be with 700 bucks on the line!!
I'm going to leave myself undecided for a few days and see where things go. If I don't see some kind of a software update addressing many of the issues some of us are experiencing I may have to reconsider... Despite all of the short-comings the new company has had as a baby, it's a beautiful baby. Let's just hope it learns fast I'm really hoping the screen issues I'm having are software related, but without confirmation from the company I can't say that I have high confidence right now. I love the feel and design of the device itself, though! *torn*

I am really trying hard to like this device. In terms of overall feel it's immaculate. They did very well on the design of the the phone. My issues come with software and future development. Right now there's clear software bugs and other optimization that needs to be done. If they can work on some of those things the experience on this phone would improve tenfold. Also once they get the source code and kernel out then we can start seeing more Community Development. We could also get things such as custom recovery and root. I'm hoping that in the coming weeks this phone and the community support will improve. I think I'll keep my device for while to see if that happens if not I may be lookin at a Pixel 2.

theandroidbot said:
I am really trying hard to like this device. In terms of overall feel it's immaculate. They did very well on the design of the the phone. My issues come with software and future development. Right now there's clear software bugs and other optimization that needs to be done. If they can work on some of those things the experience on this phone would improve tenfold. Also once they get the source code and kernel out then we can start seeing more Community Development. We could also get things such as custom recovery and root. I'm hoping that in the coming weeks this phone and the community support will improve. I think I'll keep my device for while to see if that happens if not I may be lookin at a Pixel 2.
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There isn't a massive amount of development on the pixel in relation to other Nexus devices likely due to the A/B partitions so I'm dubious on the pixel 2 at the moment

spotmark said:
Interesting. Mine still looks like it just came out of the box, and it even took a 4 foot tumble to my bathroom floor the other day.
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Can the QC really be that hit and miss? I have zero scratches as well on front or back.

rootdude said:
Can the QC really be that hit and miss? I have zero scratches as well on front or back.
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Same here. The one thing I absolutely love is the build quality. It looks exactly as the day it arrived.

Mine looks like the first day. I'm very impressed with the build quality.
Sent from my PH-1 using XDA-Developers Legacy app

No issues with mine fr a build standpoint. Fell a few times and no scratches. I'm using a glass screen protector even though there is a halo. Rather that scratches than the screen. The update that came out today is probably the software the phone should have shipped with initially... but we were all in a rush to get it. I'm keeping this device for sure! I also like confusing the heck out of ppl... I'm running the Arrow Launcher, blackberry keyboard and I use the iPhone sms sound for text notifications..
Sent from my PH-1 using XDA-Developers Legacy app

My only complaint really is I think they went too small. Most smarts phones are a little larger.

hoopsdavis said:
My only complaint really is I think they went too small. Most smarts phones are a little larger.
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I think it's refreshing. I mean I love big phones, haven't used a small sized phone in years, but after using this phone for several days, I love how reasonably compact it is with this screen size. I should rephrase, I love big screen size, not necessarily big form factor. So to have this screen size packed in a smaller form, I think it's awesome.

hoopsdavis said:
My only complaint really is I think they went too small. Most smarts phones are a little larger.
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The "small" form factor with big screen is the the biggest reason this phone came into my radar

flakko86 said:
The "small" form factor with big screen is the the biggest reason this phone came into my radar
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Same with me and many others. The big screen in compact size is among the major pros for buying this mobile. Besides that, I was also attracted to the clean design/material used and the pin port for 360 camera and other gadgets.
But I'm still waiting (impatiently) for how the Huawei Mate 10 pro turns out to be before I buy the essential phone. Hoping the Mate 10 pro is as compact and well built as well, combined with supposedly beast new Kirin 970 and improved dual camera, and maybe some new features like AI, Graphene battery, 3D Face recognition (all already introduced on Huawei's Honor magic). It would be the only contender to essential phone on my list. If Mate 10 pro disappoints then by that time Essential phone would be ready to ship out with 360 camera and charging dock in one go.

I have really grown to like this device. I have been using as my DD since the update, no significant issues and certainly no scratches or signs of wear. The size of the device is a key factor for me, I love the form factor.