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I have been having numerous arguments with people regarding Android vs the rest.
We all know that Android is an operating system, that is used by many phone manufacturers - therefore it CANNOT be compared to iPhone directly and vise versa!
Same thing is about Windows OS.
What I am trying to say is that Android equipment manufacturers have to step up the game. I believe that making a new phone every other month is a BIG NO NO. Especially when the phone is not well tested.
As an example, I own myTouch 4G. First one had a washed out screen and not working Genius button. Second one had a spic of dust under the screen, but lucky for me - it had both good screen and eMMC. So I decided to keep it. Other folks have their phones die on them because of the bad eMMC chip.
Similar issue goes to the G2 (I read about bad eMMC chips). I also heard that Sensation has some issues too!
I witnessed people exchanging up to 7 phones, and yet to get a good one.
On the other hand, Samsung devices are seem to be very plastic on the touch. I did held them in hand. Yes, the screen looks gorgeous, but the phone itself feels bad in the hand.
LG is another story.
I haven't tried or read about SE phones.
You would ask, why the hell did I write this all?
I simply want to voice my opinion. I just sick to see all these phones popping out and then read that one has bad power button, another has 2 types of screen, and then get one of them. I really want to see Android rise up in class!
Heck for not having problems I could have gone with iPhone, but I am an Android fan and chose it because it can do what I need!
I believe with the resources that Samsung, HTC, LG and other have - they can do so much better!
Lets discuss what bad sides Android phones have and what can be improved. I think it is more productive topic than fighting over blindly.
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
There's nowhere near the level of QC there used to be in the 'real' smartphones - Treos, Communicators, iPAQs etc.
I think they do a pretty good job, there's a fit and finish for just about every taste out there today. The target audience has changed a lot, the userbase has expanded exponentially, plus there are many more manufacturers today, all vying for a slice of the pie - price competitiveness has a lot to do with this, too.
It sucks, but these things are built to be thrown away. Why pump billions of dollars into the fit and finish of something outdated two weeks after it hits the streets? Sucks for us, but 'near enough is good enough' for the manufacturers, and fair enough in my opinion
z33dev33l said:
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
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Agreed about Samsung durability, I've dropped my phone on probably every surface and it is still good.
As for android there many problems with the OS. No hardware acceleration is probably big on my list. My nexus runs pretty good but I do notice lag from time to time. Stock browser is a joke to use, hella amounts of lag when viewing pics and forget about even viewing flash, so opera for me.
I hope ICS will live up to the hype, because I'm really digging the Nokia and windows mobile deal. Only time will tell...
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
I was rooting for androids latest iteration to blow at least iOS out of the water but if that leaked nexus build is a final it doesn't even look smooth on a nexus device...
Who know?Probably NOT a final build as it as no acceleration. Word is that ICS will have hardware acceleration for both the interface and browser.
We will see.It does look impressive though....
On quality:My HTC Desire is horrendous, all buttons are almost dead, that has to do with quality. On the other hand my Huawei IDEOS X5 is surprisingly good for what i paid for (hint: zero but costs about 199euros).
If you want quality go for a truly expensive and good phone like the gs2, if not buy smething cheaper.
P.S. the buttons on the iphone 4 HAVE problems.3 of my friends went to the applestore to change them.That is not good build quality imho.
Eh, I like dells build quality though they fail as a software company. Honestly though I do hope ics is more impressive than it looked in that video because that was just slow and choppy, then again I guess the default UI of android isn't what's supposed to sell android. It's the customization options available.
I have a HTC Desire HD, and in my oppinion Android+Sense is the best mobile combo. all the good things from android + an awesome HTC skin.
Company's like Samsung don't make skins for their phones. I think that they should start making them. Ans if they do that, i might buy a Samsung phone or something like that after my HTC. But if they dont start making skins, i don´t want them...
i like my desire with htc sense, also like iphone with long time battery.
z33dev33l said:
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
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+1
i own HTC devices with metal... and all of them are broken, chipped so badly i have to pull out my sandy paper or file to smooth the metal back out, because the phone shell has been ripped apart after many close encounter with the floor
since i switched to Samsung the plastic design has proven that it can handle the drops much better than the metal
I got an issue with samsung and their software updates.
I've been lucky so far with HTC. Good build quality and frequently updated software.
If I need to trade off iphone quality for the freedom of Android, I will.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
There got to be some military grade glass, that will hold all kinds of abuse. My back cover of Glacier is already swinging from side to side. I really hope that this upcoming Nexus will fix all of the issues I, and many other, have with Android phones build quality.
I still do not get, where did samsung got info that 4.65" screen is good for everyone?
hmm. interesting thread, and views.
my experience hasn't been so great with samsung phones. i had a samsung moment and that thing was terrible. and apparently the gs2 is having some problems as well. users have reported problems with the screen/display having some kind of stain like color on it, and the wifi antenna has also been reported by many to be skittish.
not surprising to me. that's what happens when you push a device out based on deadlines rather than completion of thorough testing. regardless of what company is putting the phone out - HTC, samsung, LG... any of them will have problems if they don't ensure a good testing phase pre-release.
i went from the moment to the evo 3D, and the difference is night and day. and i have handled a gs2 and all i can say is i am not impressed. it feels weak and flimsy and in the end, it's still a samsung to me, with the samsung company behind it. i will never own one. but that's just me.
meanwhile, my evo 3D seems to be just a powerhouse in the performance area. i consistently hit quadrant scores over 4300 and linpack scores of 100+ and RL benchmark is completed in about 18 seconds.
there are merely a couple phones out there putting numbers like that down consistently. i know it is that fast in reality, as well, because performing tasks such as viewing, zipping, and opening pdfs from my work email are done extremely fast, and significantly faster than when the phone wasn't rooted with a custom rom/kernel.
just my opinion, but if you can't see the advantage in power and functionality in the android OS, you are not using your phone for anything other than playing games and texting.
I played this bubble game, it's fun. After a few rounds I found myself always stopped in the middle by the app ad and when I restarted the game, the previous records were all gone. Annoying!
Europa. said:
I played this bubble game, it's fun. After a few rounds I found myself always stopped in the middle by the app ad and when I restarted the game, the previous records were all gone. Annoying!
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I love the relevance! Made my day so far
I agree with most of your arguments, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Manufacturers are still going to release one smartphone per month because people are used to buy tons of different phones to show to their friends.
More smartphones = more profit.
Doesn't matter if for the market it would be a lot better to play with only one "model" like iPhone does.
Let's hope that Google's Nexus can step up its game and be the iPhone rival.
This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand, i like to own the best phone of the moment and hop between manufacturers. I'd imagine most people on here do the same, with the exception of the insanely irreverent fanboys. Recently (Last 2 years) i've owned.. S2, iPhone 4S, S3, HTC One X and Nexus 4. (Also throw in a couple of dips to Sony and Windows Mobile for brief periods).
First of all, the S4 and the HTC One look like cracking devices. In my eyes they both have positives and negatives and if push came to shove and somebody forced me by gunpoint to pick one, i'd be hard pressed to make a decision.. Perhaps S4 but only because of the battery life and timely updates.. There really is little in it.. Anyone who thinks so is only splitting hairs.
If you're sat using an S2 or a mobile a good 2 years old i can truly appreciate what a jump that the S4 or HTC One to be for you. But if you're the kind of person who upgrades over a 12 month period, there really is little to excite at the moment.
I can't help but feel disappointing..
CPU:
This is the most frustrating topic... We've been steadily increasing in power with little gains in power management, Nvidia tried their best with that '5th core' but ultimately left us all wanting... I'd say the biggest single concern for most smartphone users is battery life now, struggling to make it through a heavy day is part and parcel of owning a mobile.
We are so very close to big.LITTLE kicking in and it seems to be that Samsung and HTC kicked off a little early, shown by the (almost complete) lack of availability of their Exynos variant..
If i bought the S4 or HTC One i'd feel almost cheated if the rumored battery performance of the upcoming CPUs in this segment are anything to go by.
Screen:
Mobile phone addiction aside, one of my other rather 'nerdy' fascination is with audio visual kit, much to my wifes misery.. Screen quality is undoubtedly a big thing for me, yet even i struggle to justify the move from a 720p resolution to a 1080p resolution on a screen only 4.7-5" big..
I've seen the HTC One in person and while i will confess at close proximity i can distinguish the difference, it is by no means the jump the market departments of said companies would like you to think.. I'd go as far to say that most (myself included) would struggle to notice the difference between the two during regular daily use.
LTE:
This is less the mobile manufacturers fault and more the networks but 4G coverage is absolutely woeful when you consider the mass rollout of hardware to utilize. I always thought the S3 LTE was pointless but was convinced this was the early warning sign the governments / networks needed to shift into gear, it doesn't appear to have happened. It's like giving everybody a Bugatti Veyron and telling them they're only allowed to drive it in speed limited residential areas..
I've got friends in the states and U.K and despite the rather gut-wrenching price they pay for LTE price plans, the performance seems poor. I do think we are a good year away from 4G being a realistic benefit to the average consumer, with small pockets of countries experiencing early gains if they live in the capital.
The only positive i can take away from all this is my other half does not have to watch me trawl through reviews, debate the best deal and then watch me giddy on the day of delivery...
Here's hopping next year is a little better!
Have to agree with this, nothing special so far
@OP ( dont wanna quote the whole post lol), trust me when i say that i am one of the biggest phone junkies around, i owned almost all of the flagship of 2012 and plan on owning quite a few in 2013. I see what you're saying when you say " meh" cause phones like the nexus 4, S3, Optimus G and note 2 are already mighty powerful but i think this is where samsung and HTC lead the pack and differentiate themselves with other brands. HTC came out with the best design a phone ever had ( in my opinion) and fantastic sound quality while samsung is expanding its crazy awesome features ( gimmicky for some, absolutely great for me). Its hard to outdo the great phones that came out last year so my question is what did you expect?
I think you need to find more hobbies/occupations in your life tbh.
But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.
JaeKay said:
But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.
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Yeah, but with all that, there's a lot that's looked over. Like if you have a Samsung Smart TV you can stream what is on your TV to your phoen anywhere you go.
We now have a IR controller with a built in TV Guide. Built in reminder to remind you also. Links to Rotten Tomatoes for movies.
There's a lot more. I just don't know what is revolutionary anymore. The problem is other technology has to catch up, like TVs, Amplifiers and audio receivers, car GPS, etc. The only thing the phone can do now is control and interact with other things.
What can honestly be revolutionary with current technology and our phones now?
How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Squirrel1620 said:
How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
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The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.
Euthye said:
The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.
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20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.
j510 said:
20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.
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I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.
thedalmeny said:
This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand...!
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While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...
nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
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Wrong and wrong.
1) There's a reason you need to post elsewhere first.
2) The fact that you say "what the hell" to that requirement further shows you are not yet ready to post in development.
3) Spamming random unrelated comments into random threads is not the way to reach the 10 post minimum
I suggest you start by reading the rules and the stickies.
Have a nice day, and welcome to XDA.
Im only getting it becuase i wanted a smaller note 2 with no spen. The s4 gives me that with plenty of horsepower. Plus the 32gb $250 price point is a good sell. If the htc one had a replaceable battery it would of been a no brainer based on design alone.
nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
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*Face palm* If there's one place where you never post something like that, it's XDA. The moderators here take people who break the rules pretty seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.
Euthye said:
I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.
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I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.
jahjah440 said:
I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.
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Wait, what, lol!
Pretty sure the Gs1 started the trend there. Gs2 was nice, but nothing revolutionary.... The s3 was by far the best in the series thus far, until this one comes out.
With that said, I like my Note 2 more so than my s3.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
I think the Note series has been pretty revolutionary and Samsung has worked hard to come up with clever things to do with the stylus.
I don't know what big hardware improvements are left to do. The one I would like the most is 3-D capabilities, both screen and camera, like the Evo 3D. I would imagine in the last two years the technology has gotten better and Samsung could market it a lot better than HTC. Plus there is more 3D content than two years ago. Samsung could also do cool things with 3D and the hover technology.
j510 said:
I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.
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Ah well tough break, I guess this phone isn't for you then.
Shammyh said:
While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...
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I have to disagree about LTE. That 100mbs conection is shared across possibly 100's of users and it does not take alot to bring it down to it's knees.
Video of sub 500kbs LTE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-VVwPqhXwI
That and really 2,3,4,5,10 GB is not really that much data if you plan using the LTE speeds fully. If I didn't have a unlimited plan, my bill would be higher in a month than what my phone cost.
I will say your right about the screen 1080p is good, well really for most 720p does the trick. ( I can still see the dot's on a 720p 4.3in screen though, but most can't.)
With iPhones beginning to show its age, and Android phones coming out with faster processors, more PPI, and more premium materials, I think Android is in a prime position to take the crown here. But with this fierce competition, I'm starting to notice more and more quality control issues, weird design decisions, and what seems to be less-than-thorough testing before release.
Take the HTC One and Galaxy S4 for example. Both are getting high praises from reviewers, and people are generally happy with these devices. But looking at the forums here, the problems that people have about these phone are glaring and very noticeable but at the same time not necessary/innate, meaning that it could have been easily avoided by both manufactures with just a bit more attention to detail, better testing, and better quality control. The shear number of people who have dead pixels on their HTC One is mind boggling for example, where they have to go through exchange after exchange in order to get one without dead pixels. Looking at one of the poles, 60% reported at least one defective pixel! The lack of a menu button, or an out-of-the box option to long press for menu baffles me even more. Yes, you can root/unlock and mod the phone (and maybe lose your warranty or brick it), but how about that person who is switching from an iPhone to an HTC One who has no desire to modify their phone? Are they not going to be turned off by that ugly black box taking up an appreciable portion of their screen real estate? Then there are many people who are turned off by the gaps in HTC claimed "zero" gap design. Again doing exchange, after exchange in order to get a "good one".
Same story with the S4 with its lags, screen smearing, the always-on red pixels.....and now they are trying to fix these issues with firmware updates. These are problems that are apparent straight out of the box. Its not like HTC or Samsung could not have noticed them during testing. Someone didn't complain to HTC about that black box during testing? HTC couldn't require that a majority of its LCDs be free of pixel defect? Samsung didn't notice the ugly smearing in their menus, or the burgundy tinted blacks before release? None of the testers reported to Samsung about their god-awful Dialer app? (I'm talking about the ATT version, not sure about the international version here). No one noticed the glaring lag in at least some of the tested devices?
I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot with these easily avoidable problems? These phones are close to perfection, and in a strange way, it makes these kind of problems even harder to swallow. Why have all this great hardware under the hood, and then handicap it in the worst way with some stupid design decision, QC problems, or an obvious lack of usability testing prior to release?
Part of the problem might be that we are demanding more for our money. The 1080p LCD/AMOLED isn't cheap, machining a piece of aluminum isnt cheap, the Snapdraon 600 isn't cheap, Gorilla Glass 3 isnt cheap...so maybe Samsung/ HTC skimp on testing prior to release or demanding less from quality control. But is that what we want going forward? We all love new toys, but the joy and excitement of having a new gadget fades away quickly after you take it out of the box. Having to wait for firmware updates, or holding off to buy in hopes of a new stock, just makes the novelty fade away even quicker.
I for one would like cellphone manufacturers to take more of my money but give me a better product out of the box. Charge me more, but don't knowingly skimp somewhere. The more I think about it, the more I realize how cheap cellphones really are considering all the bells whistle they come with. I rarely use my laptop anymore unless I need to type up a paper or to do photo/video editing. I'm a gadget junky, through and through. Like many of you, I spend a good amount of my hard earned cash on newer and better TVs, cameras, game consoles, PC components, laptops, etc etc. But I must say, none of those have required more exchanges, more returns, and more DOH!s than cellphones.
My question to tech junkies and laymans alike is, where do you stand? would be willing to pay more than that ubiquitous $200 for a high-tiered subsidized phone, if you knew it was "Muaaaaaaaaaa" *kisses fingertips* out-of-the box and not have to wait for a firmware update? Would you pay more If you knew you wouldn't have to exchange it countless times in order to get a "good one"? How much more? .....or you could just say "Sam, you are an ass for typing all this"
$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2
Pat. said:
Ass
Sent from my GT-N7105 using xda app-developers app
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In response to your unedited post....the whole point is to not have to wait for these glaring bugs and QC issues to be fixed. By that time newer phones will be out.
ShadowLea said:
$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2
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LOL No, no i wasnt suggesting anything that drastic. Maybe a 50 dollars/euros increase.
PC compenent manufacturers do something similar with their "binned" versions of hardware; where they cherry pick chips/ram/vrm/controllers and sell the finished product at a slightly higher price. im not saying we should necessarily have a "binned" and regular versions of phones, but what Im hoping for is for phone manufacturers to do better inspection, better testing, and hold higher standards for what they release out in the market, even if the price goes slightly above what the consumers are use to be paying
: D
yea fair enough, I just thought "Ass" was funnier.
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I'm with you, except I disagree with paying more. If these companies want to lead the market, they HAVE to test them thoroughly before they sell them. I will say that I think Google's level of testing is very high. For that reason, I think I'm only going to get Nexus phones until they give me a reason not to.
I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!
Ecksera said:
I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!
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I'm with you! You can change software but not quality hardware
LOL
:laugh:
very long article. i would like to pay more only if i found it is worth , for example the hardwarequality , antishock , and more
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
Mitt Romney jr, is that you?
KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
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Click to collapse
I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
JustLiveIt said:
I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
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I think we're reaching that point now, actually, or not far from it. This new x phone that leaked it a great example. Last year's hardware, but the idea is probably going to be more about good battery life or something like that.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
lol if someone if switching from Apple, it tends to be for better reason than never-modding or some stock FW aesthetic.
Honestly, ~$600-850 for new phones that are marginally better than last quarter's is already asking quite a bit, so even more and I'll just go back to old brick phones for all the right reasons.
Also our US carriers butchering hardware for god knows what purpose into clunky excuses for what originals were supposed to be.
I'm not really all that happy with the whole smartphone boom over the past 4 years. I quite enjoyed when these toys required proper owners who even knew of their existence.
I DO NOT want to pay more for a phone.
Why ?
Because the $600 or $700 tag already is several hundred dollars over material cost. Yes, they need to account for labour, shipping, and profit but take a look at Google and the Nexus line. Is it because Google can afford to take a loss on the hardware knowing that by using it you'll drive their revenue ? I don't think they would sell at a loss, but I'm open to being moderately surprised if that is the case. I'd guess they're breaking even.
There's no point in paying more for things that could be improved at the same price-point and still drive profit.
What WOULD help ?
Stop signing contracts that screw you for a subsidized phone. They have no incentive to make those phones as perfect as they can - they need some reason for you to keep re-signing that contract two years from now - they WANT you to be wanting to get rid of that phone. Why would they keep updating the firmware when they don't even want you to be using it two years from now ? Why not just have you keep paying them high monthly fees so you can get a "newer and better" phone for cheap (a cost they'll recover from you and then some) ?
What would help is people moving to buying their phones outright and demanding more for what they are paying - driving the market by where they're willing to spend money.
I don't think the components of a smartphone are "not cheap". They kind of are since the material cost is only $2-300. That's less than a decent desktop PC. Yes, it's a decent chunk of change but we're talking smartphones here, they're nice to have but still a luxury good (although I'd agree that a regular cell phone is not a luxury in this day and age). Many people pay more than $300 for a pair of shoes - a pair of Allen Edmonds is $350 ffs and that's $350 on some leather and stitching that people get romantic about - not an electronic device that can pinpoint your location by GPS, holy your music library, and play Netflix. A smartphone is a tiny computer, I would expect it to be priced as such.
So, no, please don't "charge me more" when there is no reason to. Please just have some quality control, although I don't really think it's a big deal because I'm not picky I guess. O well.
The theory behind what you're saying makes sense, but in reality at least here in Canada the prices have already increased a lot the past 3 years.
HTC desire came out almost 3 years ago here in Canada and it was the flagship phone. Full price no contract was $449.99. Then the HTC desire HD came out as its predecessor and it was $499. The desire z was also 499 launching around that time too.
The HTC one s was I think $550 and the one x $599 but dont quote me on that.
Now the HTC one is $650 and others from Samsung are $700. Iphones have always been more but I'm pretty sure they have been increasing steadily as well. So really how much do you want them to increase it? I take it you're very wealthy. Lol
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app
You're paying for the brand most of the time.. not actual quality
KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree with that.. I honestly don't see it as as price issue. The life cycles of new phones currently is ridiculous. It seem like by the time one concept is finalized they move on to "the next big thing" and try to mass produce as many of the currently "new" product before next version is released, sometimes in less than a year.
I' m good with mine...
To be completely honest, I got my phone for.99 cents and have never been happier...I don't need multi window nonsense on it and with dev ROMs on here I am fixing to get 4.2.2. So for that price who cares if it burns up but my first and only one is bug free and fast after the OC kernel soooo....
sent from my SGH-I577/Slimbean/1.5oc LZ kernel
I'm not sure how much benefit a manufacturer has to gain from creating a premium smartphone.
Such a project will cost untold amounts of resources with no real promise of consumer acceptance.
Apple pretty much set the precedent for competitive pricing with the $200 subsidized price tag. It has become the main reference point when consumers consider their purchases. New Android phone, specs x, y, and z for $300. Well, the immediate thought is going to be... "so what makes this so great that it is $100 above the iPhone's price tag?"
That is why I think the smartphone market does not have room for a "high end", because the $200 range is already a high end.
And when I say SMALL I really mean that because anything above 11.5 cm to 12 cm seems medium to me and anything above that seems plain big or giant like 14 or 15 cm phone. Don't they have the technology to build a great small 4 inch screen smartphone with decent front and rear cameras and a smooth android version? They do! Then why not give us such phones because there are enough people who would like decent sized screens and small and great smartphones! -- So, WHY are there no small smartphones anymore?
I don't know, it look like these days, small is associated with cheap and under-performing. I know, it's a false assumption but, it seem that people associate a smaller phone with the small device they had 3-4 years ago. I know, I have been guilty of this too. When I see a small phone, it's hard for me to avoid associating it with my first phone (Samsung Galaxy Ace), it was small and it was crappy. Hardware was simply not up to the task and Gingerbread was ugly. Now, in 2015 it would be possible to install high performing hardware on a small screen because technology has advanced, I know.
PlayHunter said:
And when I say SMALL I really mean that because anything above 11.5 cm to 12 cm seems medium to me and anything above that seems plain big or giant like 14 or 15 cm phone. Don't they have the technology to build a great small 4 inch screen smartphone with decent front and rear cameras and a smooth android version? They do! Then why not give us such phones because there are enough people who would like decent sized screens and small and great smartphones! -- So, WHY are there no small smartphones anymore?
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my guess, not enough demand. im guessing the average desired size is around 5-5 1/4" right now. manufacturers will always move in the direction of the majority of their customers wants, or they will loose customers.
bweN diorD said:
my guess, not enough demand. im guessing the average desired size is around 5-5 1/4" right now. manufacturers will always move in the direction of the majority of their customers wants, or they will loose customers.
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I agree with the trend, but I think there would be enough demand for 4 inch screens packed in a less than 12 cm phone with great specs. Make it with gorilla glass, IP65 and IP68 resistant, at least 5MP front and 16MP rear cameras with all available enhancements, removable 2500+ mAh battery (so the talk time or using apps for many hours through the day won't be an issue), put in a smooth android to work on a quad core platform (& +dual sim).
Then make it a limited edition (say 100,000 devices) that sells internationally. And DON'T MAKE IT CHEAP!
Say sell it for £500 a piece. See if it sells, and HOW FAST it sells. I bet the batch would be sold pretty fast!!!
If a success, then add something in the specs and make a very similar variant to continue and feed the demand.
I am the only one who would LOVE such a phone? If there are others too, then post, let's make our voices heard!
Sorry to dig out an old thread, but the situation hasn't changed yet
I've been searching for a while now for a more or less up-to-date (max 2-3 years old) compact phone. I totally agree with [MENTION=64403564 [user=7152785]@PlayHunter[/user][/MENTION], I know that the trend is to go 5 inch +, but I really like to have a small phone in my pocket and I've already been wondering if I'm the only one
Even with my old Sony Xperia Mini (yes the very old one ),
Nico3d3 said:
Hardware was simply not up to the task and Gingerbread was ugly
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but I really liked it for being Jeans-friendly And 3 of my friends bought it just because of the same reason after seeing it.
Sure, there are the Sony Z5/X/XZ Compact, but those are already bigger than my 5" Nexus 5.
I liked the size of the Z1 Compact and the iPhone 4. I think a phone in this size, with small bezels, a 720p screen and mid-to-high range hardware would attract many people.
The problem is obvious:
bweN diorD said:
im guessing the average desired size is around 5-5 1/4" right now. manufacturers will always move in the direction of the majority of their customers wants, or they will loose customers.
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Click to collapse
I was thinking the same as @PlayHunter:
PlayHunter said:
Then make it a limited edition (say 100,000 devices) that sells internationally.
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Click to collapse
A friend of mine once found a Chinese manufacturer, where you could configurate a phone as you wish (he got a 6" with TV Receiver, extra Battery and CyanogenOS) for ~€200, they were also making small ones. At the time he told me, the company has been bought by Lenovo and shut down... So here I was, thinking what to do if my (already too big ) Nexus 5 goes dark one day.
I ended up being in contact with a custom Android device manufacturer, who could produce our dream phone, for a reasonable price, with a minimum quantity of 5000 devices. If we could find enough people interested in this, we could make it happen ourselves
A few months ago I was in Sam's Club, and an AT&T salesman cornered me to try to sell me a new phone. I wasn't really all that interested; but my goddaughter was with me and wasn't done shopping yet, so I figured I'd let him pitch me.
He started talking about the camera on whatever phone he was pushing, and I interrupted him. "I don't care about the camera," I said. "What chipset does it have?"
Almost without skipping a beat, he started talking about the camera again. So I stopped him again and asked about something else, probably the battery capacity.
He picked up right where he left off talking about the amazing camera. I walked away.
More recently, I've been looking at phones to possibly (well, inevitably, eventually) replace a V20. On practically every manufacturer's site, at least three quarters of the page for any given phone is devoted to the camera and all the things it can do. Sometimes I can't even find the specs I'm looking for and have to search for them on Google. Sometimes it seems almost as if the manufacturers want to hide the specs -- except for the camera -- even when they're quite impressive.
I rarely use the camera on my phone. When I do, it's usually to take a picture of the serial number of something I'm looking for parts for, showing someone how much snow fell where I live, or some similarly boring or mundane thing. It's the absolute last thing I care about on a phone. But it seems to be the thing manufacturers spend the most time marketing.
Trying to find out how the audio quality on the earpiece is, on the other hand, is almost impossible -- at least on Web sites. One would think they'd upload a sound sample because it is, after all, a phone. How it sounds should count for something, no?
The last time I was in an AT&T store to pick up a SIM card, they tried to sell me a phone. That's okay. It's what they do; and at that time, I was actually interested in the V20 (which I eventually wound up buying, but from a distributor). I asked the salesman if he had one activated that I could listen to. He looked at me like I had two heads. I guess he never came across a customer who actually wanted to know what a phone sounded like. Am I the only one left who actually uses phones to make phone calls?
My process of searching for a new phone goes something like this:
1. Narrow down by processor, chipset, and RAM.
2. Narrow down by band support.
3. Find YouTube teardown videos to determine the difficulty of replacing the batteries in the remaining candidates, and eliminate the ones that seem designed to make it as hard as possible.
4. Search for comments about sound quality and battery life.
5. Start looking for the best deals.
I couldn't care less about the cameras because even the worst ones are good enough for what I use them for. Apparently that makes me unusual. It seems to me that most people are looking for a high-quality camera that has Internet access more so than a communication device.
Richard
You are not the only one who doesn't care about phone camera quality. I use mobile phones for gaming, so when I buy phone I first look for it's GPU. Strong GPUs like Adreno 30 series (330, 430, 530, 540 and 630) means in most casses that phones have good CPU. Most today tasks can be done with 4GB of RAM so does phone have 4, 6 or 8gb ram it's no so important for now.
Lilke Studio said:
You are not the only one who doesn't care about phone camera quality. I use mobile phones for gaming, so when I buy phone I first look for it's GPU. Strong GPUs like Adreno 30 series (330, 430, 530, 540 and 630) means in most casses that phones have good CPU. Most today tasks can be done with 4GB of RAM so does phone have 4, 6 or 8gb ram it's no so important for now.
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I tend to keep phones for a long time, so I lean toward bleeding edge hardware. But this obsession with camera quality is starting to get a little ridiculous. Unless people are blowing up the images to poster size, I think we got past the human eye's ability to see the difference quite a while ago.
Another thing I don't care about is whether the phone is waterproof. I'll take a removable battery over waterproofing any day. Also, considering that I own two GoPro cameras that I use underwater all the time, I think the excuse that a phone can't be waterproof and have a removable (or at least user-replaceable) battery is hogwash anyway.
GeekOnTheHill said:
I tend to keep phones for a long time, so I lean toward bleeding edge hardware. But this obsession with camera quality is starting to get a little ridiculous. Unless people are blowing up the images to poster size, I think we got past the human eye's ability to see the difference quite a while ago.
Another thing I don't care about is whether the phone is waterproof. I'll take a removable battery over waterproofing any day. Also, considering that I own two GoPro cameras that I use underwater all the time, I think the excuse that a phone can't be waterproof and have a removable (or at least user-replaceable) battery is hogwash anyway.
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If you want good camera for big posters and images use DSLR or professional cameras like Sony, Cannon or Nikon for that. Phone cameras will never reach that level of quality because their objective is too small. For every other needs phone camera is just fine. You are right human eye can see differences only on big screens and on high zooms.
Lilke Studio said:
If you want good camera for big posters and images use DSLR or professional cameras like Sony, Cannon or Nikon for that. Phone cameras will never reach that level of quality because their objective is too small. For every other needs phone camera is just fine. You are right human eye can see differences only on big screens and on high zooms.
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Exactly.
Well I care about one good main camera. I don't care for multiple lens, portrait mode, wide angled and all those gimmicks. I think tech reviewers lost touch with reality and most regular people in the real world rarely use all those gimmick features. Having a manual mode is more important to me than the additional lens and gimmicks.
I agree with you OP. Processor, GPU, and RAM are the things most important to me when choosing a phone. That’s what makes a phone snappy and fast. The next are battery life and price. I think for the average buyer, pretty much every phone satisfies their basic need (browsing and running some apps like facebook). What makes them different is the camera, so manufacturers try to capitalize on that.
ramencoder said:
I agree with you OP. Processor, GPU, and RAM are the things most important to me when choosing a phone. That’s what makes a phone snappy and fast. The next are battery life and price. I think for the average buyer, pretty much every phone satisfies their basic need (browsing and running some apps like facebook). What makes them different is the camera, so manufacturers try to capitalize on that.
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I agree; and as much as I think the obsession with cameras is silly, at least it's one of the more-positive tactics manufacturers use to sell new phones to people who really don't need them.
Other than gamers, few average users will really notice much (if any) difference in the performance that the hardware improvements of the past few years make possible. If you're using your phone primarily for SMS, WhatsApp, and checking your Twitter and FecesBook feeds, there's little subjective difference between a four-year-old flagship phone and one built this morning.
Natural obsolescence is a function of how a device is used and the demands that newer software make on the device; and most of the software that average users use most simply isn't all that resource-intensive. Either of my V20's are subjectively as zippy today as they were the day I bought them, even on stock ROM with few mods other than uninstalling LG's and AT&T's useless crapware and disabling Google apps that I don't need, when running apps that most typical users use most.
So how to get users to replace phones that still do what they need them to do, and still do it quite well? Enhanced cameras and other gimmicks that may be useless in the real world, but still elicit an "Oh wow!" response, are at least an honest tactic. If people want to pay for useless gimmickry, more power to them. Personally, I'd prefer a cutting-edge processor and GPU, more RAM, and more complete band coverage, than a 108MP camera whose capabilities I'll NEVER make use of. But at least fancy cameras are honest, even if useless for most people.
The tactics that really turn me off -- to the point of swearing of a manufacturer altogether -- are those specifically designed to bring about obsolescence. Making batteries difficult to replace is the most obvious example. I always watch teardown videos before buying a phone, and the degree to which manufacturers are going to assure that average users can't replace their phones' batteries is infuriating to me.
Hiding the battery behind a bazillion cables and connectors is one thing. That makes replacement tedious, but not dangerous. Gluing the battery into the phone, on the other hand, can cause less-knowledgeable DIY-ers to lose their fingers, hands, or eyes if they don't know better than to try to pry the battery out of the phone without somehow loosening the glue.
To me, that's just unconscionable; and although I hope it never happens to anyone, if it does happen, I hope that person sues the living **** out of the phone's manufacturer, wins, and puts them out of business.
The manufacturers' arguments in favor of gluing the batteries in are nonsense. There is no functional reason to glue the battery in at all, much less that tenaciously. The argument that it will rattle otherwise is garbage. All the phones I've owned except one have had removable batteries. None of them rattled. I'm sitting here shaking a V20 as I type this. It doesn't rattle.
Planned obsolescence is bad enough. Planned obsolescence using methods that can maim people is despicable.
I think I can understand why manufacturers opted to use non-removable batteries. It allows them to reduce the phone's thickness (this was the trend when iphone 6 was released). It also allows them to make irregular-shaped batteries, like the one in iphone x, to make room for other components. Last is that it makes it easier for manufacturers to waterproof their device. Though, I agree with you that gluing the battery to the phone is overkill. A simple double-sided tape is enough.