A few months ago I was in Sam's Club, and an AT&T salesman cornered me to try to sell me a new phone. I wasn't really all that interested; but my goddaughter was with me and wasn't done shopping yet, so I figured I'd let him pitch me.
He started talking about the camera on whatever phone he was pushing, and I interrupted him. "I don't care about the camera," I said. "What chipset does it have?"
Almost without skipping a beat, he started talking about the camera again. So I stopped him again and asked about something else, probably the battery capacity.
He picked up right where he left off talking about the amazing camera. I walked away.
More recently, I've been looking at phones to possibly (well, inevitably, eventually) replace a V20. On practically every manufacturer's site, at least three quarters of the page for any given phone is devoted to the camera and all the things it can do. Sometimes I can't even find the specs I'm looking for and have to search for them on Google. Sometimes it seems almost as if the manufacturers want to hide the specs -- except for the camera -- even when they're quite impressive.
I rarely use the camera on my phone. When I do, it's usually to take a picture of the serial number of something I'm looking for parts for, showing someone how much snow fell where I live, or some similarly boring or mundane thing. It's the absolute last thing I care about on a phone. But it seems to be the thing manufacturers spend the most time marketing.
Trying to find out how the audio quality on the earpiece is, on the other hand, is almost impossible -- at least on Web sites. One would think they'd upload a sound sample because it is, after all, a phone. How it sounds should count for something, no?
The last time I was in an AT&T store to pick up a SIM card, they tried to sell me a phone. That's okay. It's what they do; and at that time, I was actually interested in the V20 (which I eventually wound up buying, but from a distributor). I asked the salesman if he had one activated that I could listen to. He looked at me like I had two heads. I guess he never came across a customer who actually wanted to know what a phone sounded like. Am I the only one left who actually uses phones to make phone calls?
My process of searching for a new phone goes something like this:
1. Narrow down by processor, chipset, and RAM.
2. Narrow down by band support.
3. Find YouTube teardown videos to determine the difficulty of replacing the batteries in the remaining candidates, and eliminate the ones that seem designed to make it as hard as possible.
4. Search for comments about sound quality and battery life.
5. Start looking for the best deals.
I couldn't care less about the cameras because even the worst ones are good enough for what I use them for. Apparently that makes me unusual. It seems to me that most people are looking for a high-quality camera that has Internet access more so than a communication device.
Richard
You are not the only one who doesn't care about phone camera quality. I use mobile phones for gaming, so when I buy phone I first look for it's GPU. Strong GPUs like Adreno 30 series (330, 430, 530, 540 and 630) means in most casses that phones have good CPU. Most today tasks can be done with 4GB of RAM so does phone have 4, 6 or 8gb ram it's no so important for now.
Lilke Studio said:
You are not the only one who doesn't care about phone camera quality. I use mobile phones for gaming, so when I buy phone I first look for it's GPU. Strong GPUs like Adreno 30 series (330, 430, 530, 540 and 630) means in most casses that phones have good CPU. Most today tasks can be done with 4GB of RAM so does phone have 4, 6 or 8gb ram it's no so important for now.
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I tend to keep phones for a long time, so I lean toward bleeding edge hardware. But this obsession with camera quality is starting to get a little ridiculous. Unless people are blowing up the images to poster size, I think we got past the human eye's ability to see the difference quite a while ago.
Another thing I don't care about is whether the phone is waterproof. I'll take a removable battery over waterproofing any day. Also, considering that I own two GoPro cameras that I use underwater all the time, I think the excuse that a phone can't be waterproof and have a removable (or at least user-replaceable) battery is hogwash anyway.
GeekOnTheHill said:
I tend to keep phones for a long time, so I lean toward bleeding edge hardware. But this obsession with camera quality is starting to get a little ridiculous. Unless people are blowing up the images to poster size, I think we got past the human eye's ability to see the difference quite a while ago.
Another thing I don't care about is whether the phone is waterproof. I'll take a removable battery over waterproofing any day. Also, considering that I own two GoPro cameras that I use underwater all the time, I think the excuse that a phone can't be waterproof and have a removable (or at least user-replaceable) battery is hogwash anyway.
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If you want good camera for big posters and images use DSLR or professional cameras like Sony, Cannon or Nikon for that. Phone cameras will never reach that level of quality because their objective is too small. For every other needs phone camera is just fine. You are right human eye can see differences only on big screens and on high zooms.
Lilke Studio said:
If you want good camera for big posters and images use DSLR or professional cameras like Sony, Cannon or Nikon for that. Phone cameras will never reach that level of quality because their objective is too small. For every other needs phone camera is just fine. You are right human eye can see differences only on big screens and on high zooms.
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Exactly.
Well I care about one good main camera. I don't care for multiple lens, portrait mode, wide angled and all those gimmicks. I think tech reviewers lost touch with reality and most regular people in the real world rarely use all those gimmick features. Having a manual mode is more important to me than the additional lens and gimmicks.
I agree with you OP. Processor, GPU, and RAM are the things most important to me when choosing a phone. That’s what makes a phone snappy and fast. The next are battery life and price. I think for the average buyer, pretty much every phone satisfies their basic need (browsing and running some apps like facebook). What makes them different is the camera, so manufacturers try to capitalize on that.
ramencoder said:
I agree with you OP. Processor, GPU, and RAM are the things most important to me when choosing a phone. That’s what makes a phone snappy and fast. The next are battery life and price. I think for the average buyer, pretty much every phone satisfies their basic need (browsing and running some apps like facebook). What makes them different is the camera, so manufacturers try to capitalize on that.
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I agree; and as much as I think the obsession with cameras is silly, at least it's one of the more-positive tactics manufacturers use to sell new phones to people who really don't need them.
Other than gamers, few average users will really notice much (if any) difference in the performance that the hardware improvements of the past few years make possible. If you're using your phone primarily for SMS, WhatsApp, and checking your Twitter and FecesBook feeds, there's little subjective difference between a four-year-old flagship phone and one built this morning.
Natural obsolescence is a function of how a device is used and the demands that newer software make on the device; and most of the software that average users use most simply isn't all that resource-intensive. Either of my V20's are subjectively as zippy today as they were the day I bought them, even on stock ROM with few mods other than uninstalling LG's and AT&T's useless crapware and disabling Google apps that I don't need, when running apps that most typical users use most.
So how to get users to replace phones that still do what they need them to do, and still do it quite well? Enhanced cameras and other gimmicks that may be useless in the real world, but still elicit an "Oh wow!" response, are at least an honest tactic. If people want to pay for useless gimmickry, more power to them. Personally, I'd prefer a cutting-edge processor and GPU, more RAM, and more complete band coverage, than a 108MP camera whose capabilities I'll NEVER make use of. But at least fancy cameras are honest, even if useless for most people.
The tactics that really turn me off -- to the point of swearing of a manufacturer altogether -- are those specifically designed to bring about obsolescence. Making batteries difficult to replace is the most obvious example. I always watch teardown videos before buying a phone, and the degree to which manufacturers are going to assure that average users can't replace their phones' batteries is infuriating to me.
Hiding the battery behind a bazillion cables and connectors is one thing. That makes replacement tedious, but not dangerous. Gluing the battery into the phone, on the other hand, can cause less-knowledgeable DIY-ers to lose their fingers, hands, or eyes if they don't know better than to try to pry the battery out of the phone without somehow loosening the glue.
To me, that's just unconscionable; and although I hope it never happens to anyone, if it does happen, I hope that person sues the living **** out of the phone's manufacturer, wins, and puts them out of business.
The manufacturers' arguments in favor of gluing the batteries in are nonsense. There is no functional reason to glue the battery in at all, much less that tenaciously. The argument that it will rattle otherwise is garbage. All the phones I've owned except one have had removable batteries. None of them rattled. I'm sitting here shaking a V20 as I type this. It doesn't rattle.
Planned obsolescence is bad enough. Planned obsolescence using methods that can maim people is despicable.
I think I can understand why manufacturers opted to use non-removable batteries. It allows them to reduce the phone's thickness (this was the trend when iphone 6 was released). It also allows them to make irregular-shaped batteries, like the one in iphone x, to make room for other components. Last is that it makes it easier for manufacturers to waterproof their device. Though, I agree with you that gluing the battery to the phone is overkill. A simple double-sided tape is enough.
Related
I have been having numerous arguments with people regarding Android vs the rest.
We all know that Android is an operating system, that is used by many phone manufacturers - therefore it CANNOT be compared to iPhone directly and vise versa!
Same thing is about Windows OS.
What I am trying to say is that Android equipment manufacturers have to step up the game. I believe that making a new phone every other month is a BIG NO NO. Especially when the phone is not well tested.
As an example, I own myTouch 4G. First one had a washed out screen and not working Genius button. Second one had a spic of dust under the screen, but lucky for me - it had both good screen and eMMC. So I decided to keep it. Other folks have their phones die on them because of the bad eMMC chip.
Similar issue goes to the G2 (I read about bad eMMC chips). I also heard that Sensation has some issues too!
I witnessed people exchanging up to 7 phones, and yet to get a good one.
On the other hand, Samsung devices are seem to be very plastic on the touch. I did held them in hand. Yes, the screen looks gorgeous, but the phone itself feels bad in the hand.
LG is another story.
I haven't tried or read about SE phones.
You would ask, why the hell did I write this all?
I simply want to voice my opinion. I just sick to see all these phones popping out and then read that one has bad power button, another has 2 types of screen, and then get one of them. I really want to see Android rise up in class!
Heck for not having problems I could have gone with iPhone, but I am an Android fan and chose it because it can do what I need!
I believe with the resources that Samsung, HTC, LG and other have - they can do so much better!
Lets discuss what bad sides Android phones have and what can be improved. I think it is more productive topic than fighting over blindly.
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
There's nowhere near the level of QC there used to be in the 'real' smartphones - Treos, Communicators, iPAQs etc.
I think they do a pretty good job, there's a fit and finish for just about every taste out there today. The target audience has changed a lot, the userbase has expanded exponentially, plus there are many more manufacturers today, all vying for a slice of the pie - price competitiveness has a lot to do with this, too.
It sucks, but these things are built to be thrown away. Why pump billions of dollars into the fit and finish of something outdated two weeks after it hits the streets? Sucks for us, but 'near enough is good enough' for the manufacturers, and fair enough in my opinion
z33dev33l said:
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
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Agreed about Samsung durability, I've dropped my phone on probably every surface and it is still good.
As for android there many problems with the OS. No hardware acceleration is probably big on my list. My nexus runs pretty good but I do notice lag from time to time. Stock browser is a joke to use, hella amounts of lag when viewing pics and forget about even viewing flash, so opera for me.
I hope ICS will live up to the hype, because I'm really digging the Nokia and windows mobile deal. Only time will tell...
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
I was rooting for androids latest iteration to blow at least iOS out of the water but if that leaked nexus build is a final it doesn't even look smooth on a nexus device...
Who know?Probably NOT a final build as it as no acceleration. Word is that ICS will have hardware acceleration for both the interface and browser.
We will see.It does look impressive though....
On quality:My HTC Desire is horrendous, all buttons are almost dead, that has to do with quality. On the other hand my Huawei IDEOS X5 is surprisingly good for what i paid for (hint: zero but costs about 199euros).
If you want quality go for a truly expensive and good phone like the gs2, if not buy smething cheaper.
P.S. the buttons on the iphone 4 HAVE problems.3 of my friends went to the applestore to change them.That is not good build quality imho.
Eh, I like dells build quality though they fail as a software company. Honestly though I do hope ics is more impressive than it looked in that video because that was just slow and choppy, then again I guess the default UI of android isn't what's supposed to sell android. It's the customization options available.
I have a HTC Desire HD, and in my oppinion Android+Sense is the best mobile combo. all the good things from android + an awesome HTC skin.
Company's like Samsung don't make skins for their phones. I think that they should start making them. Ans if they do that, i might buy a Samsung phone or something like that after my HTC. But if they dont start making skins, i don´t want them...
i like my desire with htc sense, also like iphone with long time battery.
z33dev33l said:
The reason for Samsung's "plastic" feel is durability, you drop a metal phone then the weight is going to make it more likely to break, the plastics Samsung uses often just has the back pop off, maybe a scratch.
As for HTC, they're just not a quality company. They build devices that are pretty from afar but once you use them they often have horrid flaws. Very little quality control.
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+1
i own HTC devices with metal... and all of them are broken, chipped so badly i have to pull out my sandy paper or file to smooth the metal back out, because the phone shell has been ripped apart after many close encounter with the floor
since i switched to Samsung the plastic design has proven that it can handle the drops much better than the metal
I got an issue with samsung and their software updates.
I've been lucky so far with HTC. Good build quality and frequently updated software.
If I need to trade off iphone quality for the freedom of Android, I will.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
There got to be some military grade glass, that will hold all kinds of abuse. My back cover of Glacier is already swinging from side to side. I really hope that this upcoming Nexus will fix all of the issues I, and many other, have with Android phones build quality.
I still do not get, where did samsung got info that 4.65" screen is good for everyone?
hmm. interesting thread, and views.
my experience hasn't been so great with samsung phones. i had a samsung moment and that thing was terrible. and apparently the gs2 is having some problems as well. users have reported problems with the screen/display having some kind of stain like color on it, and the wifi antenna has also been reported by many to be skittish.
not surprising to me. that's what happens when you push a device out based on deadlines rather than completion of thorough testing. regardless of what company is putting the phone out - HTC, samsung, LG... any of them will have problems if they don't ensure a good testing phase pre-release.
i went from the moment to the evo 3D, and the difference is night and day. and i have handled a gs2 and all i can say is i am not impressed. it feels weak and flimsy and in the end, it's still a samsung to me, with the samsung company behind it. i will never own one. but that's just me.
meanwhile, my evo 3D seems to be just a powerhouse in the performance area. i consistently hit quadrant scores over 4300 and linpack scores of 100+ and RL benchmark is completed in about 18 seconds.
there are merely a couple phones out there putting numbers like that down consistently. i know it is that fast in reality, as well, because performing tasks such as viewing, zipping, and opening pdfs from my work email are done extremely fast, and significantly faster than when the phone wasn't rooted with a custom rom/kernel.
just my opinion, but if you can't see the advantage in power and functionality in the android OS, you are not using your phone for anything other than playing games and texting.
I played this bubble game, it's fun. After a few rounds I found myself always stopped in the middle by the app ad and when I restarted the game, the previous records were all gone. Annoying!
Europa. said:
I played this bubble game, it's fun. After a few rounds I found myself always stopped in the middle by the app ad and when I restarted the game, the previous records were all gone. Annoying!
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I love the relevance! Made my day so far
I agree with most of your arguments, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Manufacturers are still going to release one smartphone per month because people are used to buy tons of different phones to show to their friends.
More smartphones = more profit.
Doesn't matter if for the market it would be a lot better to play with only one "model" like iPhone does.
Let's hope that Google's Nexus can step up its game and be the iPhone rival.
This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand, i like to own the best phone of the moment and hop between manufacturers. I'd imagine most people on here do the same, with the exception of the insanely irreverent fanboys. Recently (Last 2 years) i've owned.. S2, iPhone 4S, S3, HTC One X and Nexus 4. (Also throw in a couple of dips to Sony and Windows Mobile for brief periods).
First of all, the S4 and the HTC One look like cracking devices. In my eyes they both have positives and negatives and if push came to shove and somebody forced me by gunpoint to pick one, i'd be hard pressed to make a decision.. Perhaps S4 but only because of the battery life and timely updates.. There really is little in it.. Anyone who thinks so is only splitting hairs.
If you're sat using an S2 or a mobile a good 2 years old i can truly appreciate what a jump that the S4 or HTC One to be for you. But if you're the kind of person who upgrades over a 12 month period, there really is little to excite at the moment.
I can't help but feel disappointing..
CPU:
This is the most frustrating topic... We've been steadily increasing in power with little gains in power management, Nvidia tried their best with that '5th core' but ultimately left us all wanting... I'd say the biggest single concern for most smartphone users is battery life now, struggling to make it through a heavy day is part and parcel of owning a mobile.
We are so very close to big.LITTLE kicking in and it seems to be that Samsung and HTC kicked off a little early, shown by the (almost complete) lack of availability of their Exynos variant..
If i bought the S4 or HTC One i'd feel almost cheated if the rumored battery performance of the upcoming CPUs in this segment are anything to go by.
Screen:
Mobile phone addiction aside, one of my other rather 'nerdy' fascination is with audio visual kit, much to my wifes misery.. Screen quality is undoubtedly a big thing for me, yet even i struggle to justify the move from a 720p resolution to a 1080p resolution on a screen only 4.7-5" big..
I've seen the HTC One in person and while i will confess at close proximity i can distinguish the difference, it is by no means the jump the market departments of said companies would like you to think.. I'd go as far to say that most (myself included) would struggle to notice the difference between the two during regular daily use.
LTE:
This is less the mobile manufacturers fault and more the networks but 4G coverage is absolutely woeful when you consider the mass rollout of hardware to utilize. I always thought the S3 LTE was pointless but was convinced this was the early warning sign the governments / networks needed to shift into gear, it doesn't appear to have happened. It's like giving everybody a Bugatti Veyron and telling them they're only allowed to drive it in speed limited residential areas..
I've got friends in the states and U.K and despite the rather gut-wrenching price they pay for LTE price plans, the performance seems poor. I do think we are a good year away from 4G being a realistic benefit to the average consumer, with small pockets of countries experiencing early gains if they live in the capital.
The only positive i can take away from all this is my other half does not have to watch me trawl through reviews, debate the best deal and then watch me giddy on the day of delivery...
Here's hopping next year is a little better!
Have to agree with this, nothing special so far
@OP ( dont wanna quote the whole post lol), trust me when i say that i am one of the biggest phone junkies around, i owned almost all of the flagship of 2012 and plan on owning quite a few in 2013. I see what you're saying when you say " meh" cause phones like the nexus 4, S3, Optimus G and note 2 are already mighty powerful but i think this is where samsung and HTC lead the pack and differentiate themselves with other brands. HTC came out with the best design a phone ever had ( in my opinion) and fantastic sound quality while samsung is expanding its crazy awesome features ( gimmicky for some, absolutely great for me). Its hard to outdo the great phones that came out last year so my question is what did you expect?
I think you need to find more hobbies/occupations in your life tbh.
But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.
JaeKay said:
But to be honest, we are at a point where technology, and especially phones are improving at a very systematical and incremental ways.
Slightly better processor
Slightly better camera
Slightly better screen
Slightly better battery
Really, we will be stuck on this pattern until something revolutionary comes into the mobile market.
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Yeah, but with all that, there's a lot that's looked over. Like if you have a Samsung Smart TV you can stream what is on your TV to your phoen anywhere you go.
We now have a IR controller with a built in TV Guide. Built in reminder to remind you also. Links to Rotten Tomatoes for movies.
There's a lot more. I just don't know what is revolutionary anymore. The problem is other technology has to catch up, like TVs, Amplifiers and audio receivers, car GPS, etc. The only thing the phone can do now is control and interact with other things.
What can honestly be revolutionary with current technology and our phones now?
How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Squirrel1620 said:
How about work on voice call clarity. This quality has been the same Damn thing since the nokia brick phones lol
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
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The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.
Euthye said:
The thing is in a day I make max 20 min call time but day in day out 4+hours screen time, iyam this is the norm so this dictates developments, so I bet we get stuck with ok call quality.
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20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.
j510 said:
20 min the norm? Speak for yourself.
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I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.
thedalmeny said:
This is likely to be first time in 7 years i haven't upgraded my phone upon a handset refresh.
I'm a terrible phone whore with very little loyalty to brand...!
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While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...
nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
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Wrong and wrong.
1) There's a reason you need to post elsewhere first.
2) The fact that you say "what the hell" to that requirement further shows you are not yet ready to post in development.
3) Spamming random unrelated comments into random threads is not the way to reach the 10 post minimum
I suggest you start by reading the rules and the stickies.
Have a nice day, and welcome to XDA.
Im only getting it becuase i wanted a smaller note 2 with no spen. The s4 gives me that with plenty of horsepower. Plus the 32gb $250 price point is a good sell. If the htc one had a replaceable battery it would of been a no brainer based on design alone.
nastyhobbits said:
posting to hit 10 posts so I can actually post in development section....wth.....
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*Face palm* If there's one place where you never post something like that, it's XDA. The moderators here take people who break the rules pretty seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.
Euthye said:
I know but how about getting a different phone if your prime use is phoning, like a 2g that'll give you 2/3 days, or if you're making calls while indoors plug it in or use a land line, flagship smartphones are computing devices not really phones any more.
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I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.
jahjah440 said:
I wish we could have a revolutionary phone come out like the Galaxy SII did. Even today, Galaxy SII is unsurpassed with performance. Is there any app or game that it can't run? I mean, it came out nearly 2 years ago, and still has not been matched by an app.
I hope Galaxy SV comes in the way of the revolution.
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Wait, what, lol!
Pretty sure the Gs1 started the trend there. Gs2 was nice, but nothing revolutionary.... The s3 was by far the best in the series thus far, until this one comes out.
With that said, I like my Note 2 more so than my s3.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
I think the Note series has been pretty revolutionary and Samsung has worked hard to come up with clever things to do with the stylus.
I don't know what big hardware improvements are left to do. The one I would like the most is 3-D capabilities, both screen and camera, like the Evo 3D. I would imagine in the last two years the technology has gotten better and Samsung could market it a lot better than HTC. Plus there is more 3D content than two years ago. Samsung could also do cool things with 3D and the hover technology.
j510 said:
I never said my prime use is phone calls. I just said 20 min is not the norm. And again where do you get your information. No matter what phone whether it is a dumb phone or smart phone, one of the main focus of a phone period involves making phone calls. Otherwise it would be called a multimedia device and not a phone.
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Ah well tough break, I guess this phone isn't for you then.
Shammyh said:
While I agree that the upgrades in the GS4 are barely a full generation ahead of the GS3, which is unfortunate given how much a jump the GS2 was over the GS1, and how much the GS1 was ahead of anything else at its time... there is a sort-of point about diminishing returns here as well. It's harder to "improve" certain aspects but so much, as we're beginning to hit the limits of what can even be perceived as an upgrade.
I mean, think about the screen. Very low res -> QVGA -> WVGA -> 720p -> 1080p. Well that's great, but for the next generation, where do you go? There's really no perceivable need to put anything higher into a sub 5" device. Maybe flexible screens? Unbreakable screens? etc etc? That's still not gonna actually increase the photonic information presented to your eyes from the device.
Or take the physical phone body. The GS4 is pushing the screen so far that it's easily covering 80-90% of the entire front surface area. So okay, next gen, you make the entire front surface a screen. Then what? Make the phone thinner? Well, at a certain point you hit a limit there as well. People can only grasp and comfortably hold objects of up to a certain depth. When you get it smaller than that, you're basically just printing a screen onto a knife blade. So that's no good...
Let's try connectivity. LTE and 802.11ac? Most cell networks couldn't saturate their LTE links if they tried, they simply don't have the capacity yet. And even if they did... You're telling me you can even find a use-case where your phone is pumping out/in 100+ mbit/s of data? I mean, at home it's nice to move music/videos/files around sure. But I highly doubt anyone is routinely moving gigabytes of data per hour on any sort of mobile device. Once you hit what you need for say HD video streaming... where else is there to go? Again, the next generation doesn't really need to move data any faster than this.
Sensors? Well, there's actually lots of room for improvement here. And also, un-coincidentally, this is where the GS4 has some the of greatest advantage over other current/last generation devices. While we're still pretty far away from a proper tricorder, we can now sense via magnetometer, accelerometer, gyroscope, light sensor, infrared sensor, microphones, thermometer, hydrometer, barometer, and two cameras... But building sensors isn't the hard part. It's building clever software to do something with these sensors.
I could go on further... but the point I should think is clear. Yea, it's a bit disappointing that nothing since the original GS1/GS2 has really been a full "generation and a half" ahead of the competition... but a large portion of that is simply because we're beginning to hit the ceiling with some of these improvements. Yea, in 20 years "phones" will be unpredictably evolved from what we have now. But I bet the screens still won't have any higher effective PPI than what we're approaching now...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree about LTE. That 100mbs conection is shared across possibly 100's of users and it does not take alot to bring it down to it's knees.
Video of sub 500kbs LTE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-VVwPqhXwI
That and really 2,3,4,5,10 GB is not really that much data if you plan using the LTE speeds fully. If I didn't have a unlimited plan, my bill would be higher in a month than what my phone cost.
I will say your right about the screen 1080p is good, well really for most 720p does the trick. ( I can still see the dot's on a 720p 4.3in screen though, but most can't.)
What I don't understand is at the start of the year we had the big show down of the GS4 vs the HTC One. People were going spec crazy to even the fact that the GS4 must be better because it has DDR3 or the HTC One screen must be better because the PPI is 480 (my phone says 480) to the GS4s 441. We even had people complain that the GS4 was a pentile screen and it didn't look as sharp as the HTC One and that OLED fades over time and if you have a static image on for too long, you'll see burn in. I can confirm the screen burn with OLEDs, the phones I've had in the past with OLED screens always get it.
However suddenly when it comes to Nokia they seem to get away with selling you dated hardware. It's 720p, the PPI is 334 and it's a PENTILE OLED screen...... they even put this tinted black glass over the front to try and hide the future screen burn. Somehow Nokia get away with it and people don't care, where it comes to everyone else however, they'll get scrutinized and people will say it's **** straight away.
Not only that but you're getting a dated S4 dual core and an Adreno 225 which is 2/3 years old at this point. What Nokia are basically doing is selling you last years hardware at $300 on contract! I could accept the argument that Windows Phone doesn't need better hardware or whatever, though nor does Android. My Galaxy S2 never had any lag or weird issues at the time it was released, it was one of the fastest phones out there. It's easy to look back at it now and say it was a PoS, that's because the software has evolved to the point it's showing its age. My point is, I'm not going to buy a phone that is crazy expensive, to get dated hardware that is now so cheap that Nokia must be making a mint.
I keep seeing this argument of how Android is laggy and requires 1000 cores to run properly. It's just not the case, I have a HTC One and Android runs perfectly smooth, no stutter and nothing has pushed it in terms of gaming and the browser is mega fast. If I put the HTC One next to a Windows phone in a store and compare them, I'm not seeing Android lag at all. In fact what I do see is the browser on the HTC One is way faster and it boots up a hell of a lot faster and the animation on the scroll is smoother, where it looks like it is dropping frames on the Windows Phone.
Windows Phone is smooth on the whole yeah, however it's a myth to me that Android is a laggy pos that requires a super computer to run well. I look at my usage on my HTC One and what does it say? 2 cores in use, 2 cores on idle and it's clocked at 1.1ghrz. So in reality Android doesn't need 4 cores to run well, those cores are only used from moment to moment when the cpu requires it. The same with memory, my phone is using 768mb ram right now, it doesn't need 2gb of ram, though I'm guessing a chunk of that is for the GPU as well, when it comes to memory, more is always better as it allows games to use larger texture files and what not. So I just don't get why you'd spend more money for less, I don't find that acceptable, yeah if the price was cheaper then it would be fine but... it isn't.
Battery life as well for the 1020 is meant to be horrible if you actually use the thing you buy it for, the camera. It's only 2000MaH and you cannot replace it and from my experience with the 808, you really need to replace that battery if you're taking lots of shots. If an Android device got that poor battery life, people would be going crazy, yet it's another thing that because it's Nokia... let them get away with it. I get 1-2 days out of my HTC One, it's only like 300MaH more than the Nokia 1020 and the 920, it's proof again for me that Android doesn't drain battery life mad, it's how you use it. You have freedom on Android to use the device how you life, I'm sure if you have 6 pages of widgets and you have every app open from under the sun in the background, you will drain battery. I'm just glad I have the freedom to do that and with true multitasking, not just a saved state.
I have to come onto form factor as well, again if an Android phone was as big as a 920 or a 1020 then people would be going crazy, even if it was an iPhone. Every review says the 920 is giant and hard to fit into your pocket and every review says the 1020 is horrible to hold because they put the camera bump too low down. Why do they get a free pass from that? People hated how the HTC One rocked about on a flat surface but no one seems to care that the 1020 is even worse.
Windows Phone lacks apps, it's a restrictive OS where you have to wait for Microsoft to do everything for you. It's basically a worse IOS with a different look, both pride themselves on being smooth but where Windows Phone lacks functionality, people give it a free ride because it looks different. I see so much hate on IOS because of Apple and how it's a closed OS, yet the same people do not care it's the same for Windows Phone. If Microsoft made it open like the desktop, I'd be so happy, however I hate having to wait years for them to do something, when a custom rom would have already done it on Android. Yet in every argument, the good points of Android never come up, it's always these unfounded arguments of how poorly it runs. I just think do your research, if you're going to buy a PoS phone that runs Android, then that's your own fault, you can find those cheap good for nothing phones on any platform.
At the end of the day though the 920 had a mediocre over saturated camera where the images were far too soft. I remember a website doing a blind comparison and funnily enough the iPhone 5 was everyone's favourite because Apple just get the software so right. The 1020's focus is obviously the camera and technically it beats everything but the 808, which lets be honest isn't really a smart phone as it runs Symbian. I've owned an 808, I've compared pictures to the 1020 and the 808 looks much better, especially in full resolution mode. I had to sell the 808 because I couldn't stand being on Symbian any longer and a camera doesn't make a phone, I can buy a separate camera and I have. I have a go pro 3 for my Motorcycle and I have a DSLR for shooting pictures I actually care how they turn out... obviously a DSLR beats even the 808 and 1020.
Again though I think the 1020s camera is flawed, it doesn't have a dedicated image processor, so images take so long to save. At the same time I could have taken 20 images on the HTC One or GS4 and for every day use they look just as good when you upload them to facebook or whatever people do. I think people are trying to treat the 1020 as some professional camera and forgetting about the rest of the phone. If you want a professional camera, there are much better options and you don't get locked into a 2 year contract paying $300 upfront. I do not feel that it's a good quick point of shoot like most other smart phones out there, just simply because it does take a long time to save images. Obviously the image quality is better, I've had first hand experience, however the images are over saturated like mad, judging by the 920, Nokia will not fix this. The images are over sharpened, you can not go down to ISO 50 and there is no ND filter for direct sunlight shots. So I don't see any advanced in this camera over say the 808 or a dedicated camera, I cannot see why it's hyped so much. The end result is too much grain and noise in the picture, especially if you use Nokia's automatic settings which just increase the ISO even in the daylight to 200... no wonder why there is so much noise. Realistically I want to be putting it to 50... yet I can't?
I think there is far too much hype for the phone that doesn't really do anything really well, the OIS could have been much better and the mic performance is lacking. I'm not sure if it's their software controlling the mics or if it's crap hardware. However it sounds like it's only recording in mono or it's really muffled or something, maybe Windows Phone doesn't support stereo recording?
You get these crazy rabid Nokia fanbois now just going crazy if there is any criticism and it's really weird. You don't get this from Android because people aren't tied to an OEM, people generally just go for the best handset that is released at that moment in time.
slannmage said:
What I don't understand is at the start of the year we had the big show down of the GS4 vs the HTC One. People were going spec crazy to even the fact that the GS4 must be better because it has DDR3 or the HTC One screen must be better because the PPI is 480 (my phone says 480) to the GS4s 441. We even had people complain that the GS4 was a pentile screen and it didn't look as sharp as the HTC One and that OLED fades over time and if you have a static image on for too long, you'll see burn in. I can confirm the screen burn with OLEDs, the phones I've had in the past with OLED screens always get it.
However suddenly when it comes to Nokia they seem to get away with selling you dated hardware. It's 720p, the PPI is 334 and it's a PENTILE OLED screen...... they even put this tinted black glass over the front to try and hide the future screen burn. Somehow Nokia get away with it and people don't care, where it comes to everyone else however, they'll get scrutinized and people will say it's **** straight away.
Not only that but you're getting a dated S4 dual core and an Adreno 225 which is 2/3 years old at this point. What Nokia are basically doing is selling you last years hardware at $300 on contract! I could accept the argument that Windows Phone doesn't need better hardware or whatever, though nor does Android. My Galaxy S2 never had any lag or weird issues at the time it was released, it was one of the fastest phones out there. It's easy to look back at it now and say it was a PoS, that's because the software has evolved to the point it's showing its age. My point is, I'm not going to buy a phone that is crazy expensive, to get dated hardware that is now so cheap that Nokia must be making a mint.
I keep seeing this argument of how Android is laggy and requires 1000 cores to run properly. It's just not the case, I have a HTC One and Android runs perfectly smooth, no stutter and nothing has pushed it in terms of gaming and the browser is mega fast. If I put the HTC One next to a Windows phone in a store and compare them, I'm not seeing Android lag at all. In fact what I do see is the browser on the HTC One is way faster and it boots up a hell of a lot faster and the animation on the scroll is smoother, where it looks like it is dropping frames on the Windows Phone.
Windows Phone is smooth on the whole yeah, however it's a myth to me that Android is a laggy pos that requires a super computer to run well. I look at my usage on my HTC One and what does it say? 2 cores in use, 2 cores on idle and it's clocked at 1.1ghrz. So in reality Android doesn't need 4 cores to run well, those cores are only used from moment to moment when the cpu requires it. The same with memory, my phone is using 768mb ram right now, it doesn't need 2gb of ram, though I'm guessing a chunk of that is for the GPU as well, when it comes to memory, more is always better as it allows games to use larger texture files and what not. So I just don't get why you'd spend more money for less, I don't find that acceptable, yeah if the price was cheaper then it would be fine but... it isn't.
Battery life as well for the 1020 is meant to be horrible if you actually use the thing you buy it for, the camera. It's only 2000MaH and you cannot replace it and from my experience with the 808, you really need to replace that battery if you're taking lots of shots. If an Android device got that poor battery life, people would be going crazy, yet it's another thing that because it's Nokia... let them get away with it. I get 1-2 days out of my HTC One, it's only like 300MaH more than the Nokia 1020 and the 920, it's proof again for me that Android doesn't drain battery life mad, it's how you use it. You have freedom on Android to use the device how you life, I'm sure if you have 6 pages of widgets and you have every app open from under the sun in the background, you will drain battery. I'm just glad I have the freedom to do that and with true multitasking, not just a saved state.
I have to come onto form factor as well, again if an Android phone was as big as a 920 or a 1020 then people would be going crazy, even if it was an iPhone. Every review says the 920 is giant and hard to fit into your pocket and every review says the 1020 is horrible to hold because they put the camera bump too low down. Why do they get a free pass from that? People hated how the HTC One rocked about on a flat surface but no one seems to care that the 1020 is even worse.
Windows Phone lacks apps, it's a restrictive OS where you have to wait for Microsoft to do everything for you. It's basically a worse IOS with a different look, both pride themselves on being smooth but where Windows Phone lacks functionality, people give it a free ride because it looks different. I see so much hate on IOS because of Apple and how it's a closed OS, yet the same people do not care it's the same for Windows Phone. If Microsoft made it open like the desktop, I'd be so happy, however I hate having to wait years for them to do something, when a custom rom would have already done it on Android. Yet in every argument, the good points of Android never come up, it's always these unfounded arguments of how poorly it runs. I just think do your research, if you're going to buy a PoS phone that runs Android, then that's your own fault, you can find those cheap good for nothing phones on any platform.
At the end of the day though the 920 had a mediocre over saturated camera where the images were far too soft. I remember a website doing a blind comparison and funnily enough the iPhone 5 was everyone's favourite because Apple just get the software so right. The 1020's focus is obviously the camera and technically it beats everything but the 808, which lets be honest isn't really a smart phone as it runs Symbian. I've owned an 808, I've compared pictures to the 1020 and the 808 looks much better, especially in full resolution mode. I had to sell the 808 because I couldn't stand being on Symbian any longer and a camera doesn't make a phone, I can buy a separate camera and I have. I have a go pro 3 for my Motorcycle and I have a DSLR for shooting pictures I actually care how they turn out... obviously a DSLR beats even the 808 and 1020.
Again though I think the 1020s camera is flawed, it doesn't have a dedicated image processor, so images take so long to save. At the same time I could have taken 20 images on the HTC One or GS4 and for every day use they look just as good when you upload them to facebook or whatever people do. I think people are trying to treat the 1020 as some professional camera and forgetting about the rest of the phone. If you want a professional camera, there are much better options and you don't get locked into a 2 year contract paying $300 upfront. I do not feel that it's a good quick point of shoot like most other smart phones out there, just simply because it does take a long time to save images. Obviously the image quality is better, I've had first hand experience, however the images are over saturated like mad, judging by the 920, Nokia will not fix this. The images are over sharpened, you can not go down to ISO 50 and there is no ND filter for direct sunlight shots. So I don't see any advanced in this camera over say the 808 or a dedicated camera, I cannot see why it's hyped so much. The end result is too much grain and noise in the picture, especially if you use Nokia's automatic settings which just increase the ISO even in the daylight to 200... no wonder why there is so much noise. Realistically I want to be putting it to 50... yet I can't?
I think there is far too much hype for the phone that doesn't really do anything really well, the OIS could have been much better and the mic performance is lacking. I'm not sure if it's their software controlling the mics or if it's crap hardware. However it sounds like it's only recording in mono or it's really muffled or something, maybe Windows Phone doesn't support stereo recording?
You get these crazy rabid Nokia fanbois now just going crazy if there is any criticism and it's really weird. You don't get this from Android because people aren't tied to an OEM, people generally just go for the best handset that is released at that moment in time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hype is for the camera. It is much better than anything out there. There are dozens of reviews for this phone already. They have regurgitated the same things you have listed. No one in the mainstream tech media is trying to distort the truth. Just because searching Lumia 1020 on Google turns up a million hits from MyNokiaBlog and WPCentral and WMPoweruser, the domain names should already make it obvious. These are fansites and propaganda sites with almost zero traffic. Just because you see them often on Google or twitter doesn't mean everyone is gushing over the Lumia 1020 and ignoring or justifying all its failings. No one has this phone and no one is buying this phone. The Lumia 1020 forum at WPCentral is almost dead and this forum is practically dead. This is the internet. It should be pretty obvious that it only takes one or two people posting incessantly to make it feel like a legion.
Lol people call me a troll when I post long rants about the Lumia 1020. But this is a real troll rant. Blowing up little flaws and non-issues, or spinning misinformation. It's like an aggregate or everything bad that has been ever said about this phone, true or false, for the sake of piling it on instead of real concern. I actually care about the Pureview tech, so I complain alot. I think you're just bored.
Nothing I said was false.
All true things no doubt. But if you value having a truly great camera in your pocket, then the shortcomings are able to be quite easily overlooked.
The only things lasting more than two years in your phone are your pictures - why not get the best ones possible so you can have good mementos?
Sent from my RM-877_nam_att_205 using Tapatalk
Wow... you really need to get back on your medications dude. Maybe get outside more.
LagunaCid said:
All true things no doubt. But if you value having a truly great camera in your pocket, then the shortcomings are able to be quite easily overlooked.
The only things lasting more than two years in your phone are your pictures - why not get the best ones possible so you can have good mementos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. During his techno-babble rant against the 1020 (or is it the 920? or WP in general? )... the one spec that the OP forgot to mention ... the one that is most salient to why the 1020 is getting hype... the one that everyone is talking about... the fact that it has a 41MB camera. Oops, must have forgotten that one. I'll say it again, FORTY ONE MEGABYTE camera. That is not a leap in phone technology and innovation, it is a freakin rocket launch. That absolutely crushes all existing smart phones, beats most point-and-shoots, and even produces better photos than some entry level DSLRs. None of the other specs matter if the OS runs smooth (save maybe the screen argument... although you blew that too. Ive had a 920 since it came out and there is no sign of fading or burn-in at all, and never will be during its useful life). Number of cores... GHZ processor... blah... blah... blah... none of that matters if the user experience is excellent, which it is and you even admitted:
Windows Phone is smooth on the whole yeah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having quad core this or over-clocked that does a WP user no good because unlike android, it doesn't need it to run properly. That is stuff that android users haggle about. But the one things that your phone won't ever do... ever... with all it's technical superiority and all... is take 41-freakin-MB photo
You know what really grinds my gears with Nokia? Battery. Can they at least ball up and put something that actually lasts? 2000mAh is n.o.t.h.i.n.g. for smartphone these days, especially phone with CPU/data active OS like WP. Got 920 and then swapped it for 925 (work phones), and i really really don't talk that often or use it, and i couldn't even last a day without shutting things down. Sad.
I am an amateur photographer, I had the lumia 1020 phone since release and I haven't looked back. In matter of fact I stopped using my galaxy note II completely. Alot of people say megapixels are over rated but 41mp has been really helpful to me, I can crop out like 5 individual pictures out of 1 shot without losing quality.
smuook said:
Exactly. During his techno-babble rant against the 1020 (or is it the 920? or WP in general? )... the one spec that the OP forgot to mention ... the one that is most salient to why the 1020 is getting hype... the one that everyone is talking about... the fact that it has a 41MB camera. Oops, must have forgotten that one. I'll say it again, FORTY ONE MEGABYTE camera. That is not a leap in phone technology and innovation, it is a freakin rocket launch. That absolutely crushes all existing smart phones, beats most point-and-shoots, and even produces better photos than some entry level DSLRs. None of the other specs matter if the OS runs smooth (save maybe the screen argument... although you blew that too. Ive had a 920 since it came out and there is no sign of fading or burn-in at all, and never will be during its useful life). Number of cores... GHZ processor... blah... blah... blah... none of that matters if the user experience is excellent, which it is and you even admitted:
Having quad core this or over-clocked that does a WP user no good because unlike android, it doesn't need it to run properly. That is stuff that android users haggle about. But the one things that your phone won't ever do... ever... with all it's technical superiority and all... is take 41-freakin-MB photo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean 41 Mega Pixel photos? 41 MP not MB. I can make most cameras take a 41MB picture but it doesnt mean its going to look good. Its an innovation for its packaged size as in for its ability to be designed into a relatively thin form factor. In fact the full 41 MP, photos are not as good as its down sampled 5MP version. The hardware on the 1020 is solid only the camera is bleeding edge. My problem with WP is not the hardware or the UI its the app ecosystem. The lack of the apps I absolutely need keeps me from getting one. I had a 920 last year for a week and the lack of my most used apps was just too much. I waited and those apps still arent on WP. I will continue to wait till WP has the apps I need before I buy another one.
No matter how I think about it, still makes no sense. I still think people who are working on this are either seriously mistaken, or intentionally participating in a scam for development funding.
Modularity Overhead, Physical Size
This is the number 1 huge in your face problem they have to deal with, and people don't seem to be taking this seriously enough. The guy at the conference bragged about "25%" overhead, which already seems impossibly small. But even if it were true, it still wouldn't be small enough. Simple question, would you buy a Galaxy S5 that's 25% heavier and 25% thicker and 25% larger around the edges? You would not! Because no smartphone is that big! It's enormous! And it'll be over 10mm thick! Who the **** buys a 10m+ thick phone now days?
The latest prototype they have now has about 100% overhead in volume.
"Benefits" to a Modular Phone
Simply put, it does not exist, period. Remember your last phone? Why did you upgrade to the new Droid Turbo? Because it has the Snapdragon 805 chip? Or because it has a 2k screen? Or was it the camera? Or maybe? ALL OF THEM? The ASSUMPTION in the original phone block video, that people upgrade or swap phones because of a single component is simply false! Because
Firstly, modern phones are so incredibly reliable that none of the components ever get broken except the screen.
Secondly, you can replace your screen for possibly cheaper than it would cost to buy a new Ara screen module!
Thirdly, It would be stupid to put a 2k screen on your Ara phone with Snapdragon 400 SoC because it will lag this **** out of you. And who is ever going to upgrade from a 720p screen to another 720p screen?
Forthly, It's equally stupid to put a 20MP camera on your phone with Tegra 3 SoC because it doesn't support 20MP cameras! And even if it did you don't want a laggy ass camera experience do you? And neither do you want to viewfind a 20MP camera with your WVGA screen!
So, the assumptions that people would want to swap out modules, and the assumption that people change phones because a single component has failed, are BOTH FALSE! But sadly these are what the Ara project is entirely based on!
Other problems
How the **** are you going to build a centralised communications board that supports the bandwidth requirements of components even a year in the future? Without itself being ultra futuristic and expensive from the start? Because you don't want it to bottleneck your camera for 4K recording. Or you new 2k screen. Or your ultra fast LTE Cat-6 modem.
One of the biggest reasons people want to change phones is battery life. How the **** are you going to fit bigger batteries without it bulging out at a random corner and make the phone difficult to balance on your hand and a million times more ugly than the extruding camera on the iPhone 6? Because the grid is fixed and has a super small slot for the battery?
Another big reason people change phones is screen size. Well no luck here because you can't change screen size. So you can maybe change to a marginally better screen at the cost of a hundred dollars or more.
Drop the phone and have your components scatter all over the place. Or have a back cover to further increase thickness. But oh wait, you can't have a back cover because some of your components like the high end camera and big battery are bulging out in a CUSTOMISED and UNIQUELY YOURS way that you can't find a suitable back cover. Maybe you can try duck tape?
Target Market
Who is the target consumer of this device? People who don't already have a smartphone you said? How about they but a Chinese smartphone for $100 that will work just fine until the screen is smashed and have it replaced for $10? Rather than spending $200 on a mid-high range piece of **** like this and loose components because they fell off into the gutter on the side of the street? I mean these high precision engineering aren't cheap, and the end result can't be cheap either!
Maybe enthusiasts just like people who build their own PCs? Yeah good luck with the fixed screen size! What about the Galaxy S6 which is cheaper (because no need for the electro magnet and extra systems like central skeleton), thinner lighter smaller, with bigger screen and bigger battery? Now don't tell me you can swap out the GPU on your project Ara phone! As a PC gamer myself I don't even swap parts on my PC that often. Except the storage (*cough* micro SD card), and the graphics card.
Or maybe people who don't really care how their phone worked, as long as it does? Regular consumers? Like iPhone users? Yea right!
Sorry for long post. But I just don't get it.
Uh, Project Ara is a Google project...
I highly doubt Google would risk running a scam.
And dont forget it's just the first prototype. They start the downscaling once it works, not beforehand.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2
jacobgong said:
....I still think people who are working on this are either seriously mistaken, or intentionally participating in a scam for development funding.....
Or It's a curtain maybe they are working on alien-powered new devices...
...You would not! Because no smartphone is that big! It's enormous! And it'll be over 10mm thick! Who the **** buys a 10m+ thick phone now days?
The latest prototype they have now has about 100% overhead in volume.
Big sells, now lets see if heavy and bulgy sell ...
Forthly, It's equally stupid to put a 20MP camera on your phone with Tegra 3 SoC because it doesn't support 20MP cameras! And even if it did you don't want a laggy ass camera experience do you? And neither do you want to viewfind a 20MP camera with your WVGA screen!
Yeah pretty much ... totally stupid!
So, the assumptions that people would want to swap out modules, and the assumption that people change phones because a single component has failed, are BOTH FALSE! But sadly these are what the Ara project is entirely based on!
I think a certain category of user would, but this kind of user keep awake at night to scout the net for the cheapest possible hardware so it's a bit like selling a 20$ burger at McDonald
How the **** are you going to build a centralised communications board that supports the bandwidth requirements of components even a year in the future? Without itself being ultra futuristic and expensive from the start? Because you don't want it to bottleneck your camera for 4K recording. Or you new 2k screen. Or your ultra fast LTE Cat-6 modem.
I told you previously: ALIEN hardware (LOL)
One of the biggest reasons people want to change phones is battery life. How the **** are you going to fit bigger batteries without it bulging out at a random corner and make the phone difficult to balance on your hand and a million times more ugly than the extruding camera on the iPhone 6? Because the grid is fixed and has a super small slot for the battery?
The answer: it will sport a crappy battery ! Or the aliens could help here too E.T had great batteries in his ship!
Another big reason people change phones is screen size. Well no luck here because you can't change screen size. So you can maybe change to a marginally better screen at the cost of a hundred dollars or more.
Best way to piss off customers: upgrades that cost more than the device
Drop the phone and have your components scatter all over the place. Or have a back cover to further increase thickness. But oh wait, you can't have a back cover because some of your components like the high end camera and big battery are bulging out in a CUSTOMISED and UNIQUELY YOURS way that you can't find a suitable back cover. Maybe you can try duck tape?
Yeah your right magnets wont hold for sure , but again the aliens!
Or maybe people who don't really care how their phone worked, as long as it does? Regular consumers? Like iPhone users? Yea right!
Not me for sure (or you for that matter)
Sorry for long post. But I just don't get it.
me neither!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will you pre-order ?
P.S you forgot to bash the name!
ARA are HUGE parrots godamn sign of things to come?!
would you believe
LOL. you see the very best answer if you are a XDA user and YOu still don't believein Google project ara, There are people on earth even still today those who believe NASA never send MAN on MOON. They did everything in earth in desert...
Believe my friend . Its true. Even one of leading newspaper in India has posted a review and a big article that they saw a prototype.
sachoosaini said:
LOL. you see the very best answer if you are a XDA user and YOu still don't believein Google project ara, There are people on earth even still today those who believe NASA never send MAN on MOON. They did everything in earth in desert...
Believe my friend . Its true. Even one of leading newspaper in India has posted a review and a big article that they saw a prototype.
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I know there is a prototype and I know the prototype is real. The question being raised here is also not whether it's technically feasible with limitless budget, which would be the case for the Apollo landings.
This is a consumer product and MONEY is a huge factor. I have no doubt that they could do it technically, but there is no reason to believe that such a product would be economically competitive to other products made by equally smart engineers, backed by equally rich companies.
jacobgong said:
I know there is a prototype and I know the prototype is real. The question being raised here is also not whether it's technically feasible with limitless budget, which would be the case for the Apollo landings.
This is a consumer product and MONEY is a huge factor. I have no doubt that they could do it technically, but there is no reason to believe that such a product would be economically competitive to other products made by equally smart engineers, backed by equally rich companies.
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Money is always the factor. But what you see when the computer was first launched it is a thing for very rich people. But if u see today the you hold computer In your hand. Well right the cellphone. It's the baby born from technological advancements that happened over the passage of years. Companies worked to bring down the cost of those hammer head computers.
Same goes here. Today we have so much technological advancements that has made the pace of development very high. The project at first look very alien to people but once its started it comes to life. Don't worry its Google who need to be worried about how they gonna make it that much cheap. Now to people Google glass seem very bad device though it is not. As we move toward future things and uses will start getting clear. So just let the things have their way up to the end. Google is not small company who bet without thinking anything on Ara. Well now Google holds the patents from Motorola. People questioned why google acquired Motorola. Well for patents for sure....why Microsoft bought Nokia just for their patents. Its money....
Sent from my XT1033 using XDA Free mobile app
I think it's got a cute camera, but all around it just... sucks. The battery is even worse than my Nexus 5, and the phone is just ugly, especially in the front, in my opinion.
Actually I like the design much better than the M9, not too worried about the battery, and it seems HTC has finally overcome it's greatest flaw in its camera.
Wish it has a dual SIM function (it's important in SE Asia and developing countries) and waterproof.
Otherwise, it's pretty nice.
I just can't believe they are still plastering a fugly logo on the front taking up valuable screen real-estate. I'll never buy another HTC as long as they keep doing that. At the very least they got rid of the "hardware" buttons... except then they replaced it with a larger hardware button copying samsung and apple. The waste of space is just terrible. Nexus 6 has slightly more than half an inch in top/bottom bezeling combined while these things look like they are rocking 1.5 inches or more!
Not to mention it's looks like a sad copy attempt at newer samsung/iphone styles - hardly unique at all. I don't think the copy-cat ploy is going to work for the third guy doing it. I'd bet money that this is yet another flop.
http://www.xda-developers.com/the-a9-is-not-the-hero-htc-needs-nor-the-one-it-deserves/
Xenosis said:
I just can't believe they are still plastering a fugly logo on the front taking up valuable screen real-estate. I'll never buy another HTC as long as they keep doing that. At the very least they got rid of the "hardware" buttons... except then they replaced it with a larger hardware button copying samsung and apple. The waste of space is just terrible. Nexus 6 has slightly more than half an inch in top/bottom bezeling combined while these things look like they are rocking 1.5 inches or more!
Not to mention it's looks like a sad copy attempt at newer samsung/iphone styles - hardly unique at all. I don't think the copy-cat ploy is going to work for the third guy doing it. I'd bet money that this is yet another flop.
http://www.xda-developers.com/the-a9-is-not-the-hero-htc-needs-nor-the-one-it-deserves/
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I don't think the design is necessarily a bad thing. It may be emulating Apple, but it's still metal and it will appeal to quite a number of people, if not for the design then for the build quality alone. With that being said, the battery is most likely gonna drag the phone down, unless they can do what the Moto G is doing with their battery, which by the way is larger than the A9.
Also, I hope there are capacitative back and recent apps buttons to complement the physical home button. Otherwise, the home button kinda becomes redundant, even with a fingerprint scanner, because you have the full set of controls on the screen right above the home button.
Using HTC 8 years now but couldn't find new model for me. Like the design but inside phone is not what you expecting from phones these days.
Just to hang for time that HTC makes serious phone I switched to OnePlus 2.
HTC A9
Very bad design, I think they need to change thier concept designer and CEO then they try to find another inspiration like One M7 & 8 and I think they will not be able to do that until they think out of Apple hater Box
bennaye said:
I don't think the design is necessarily a bad thing. It may be emulating Apple, but it's still metal and it will appeal to quite a number of people, if not for the design then for the build quality alone. With that being said, the battery is most likely gonna drag the phone down, unless they can do what the Moto G is doing with their battery, which by the way is larger than the A9.
Also, I hope there are capacitive back and recent apps buttons to complement the physical home button. Otherwise, the home button kinda becomes redundant, even with a fingerprint scanner, because you have the full set of controls on the screen right above the home button.
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Bad? nah. Sad? I think so. Who needs more of the same thing? It's because they are failing that they decided to copy what they thought would be a safe bet. Personally I'm not even too bothered by the small battery as I pretty much always keep my phones around 50% and up as wherever I am there is usually a place to charge them. Fast charging will make that even more feasible. (Probably their logic)
In my opinion, the fingerprint scanner should be on the back of every phone, like many are already doing, not the front. Or even on the side makes more sense. It should be in a place that is easy to access with only one hand. The bottom of the front of the phone makes it so you have to support it with the other hand while swiping to do it comfortably.
My point is that any capacitive/hardware buttons that can be done in software are redundant and they are especially atrocious when taking up screen real estate. When done in software, the screen can be 1/3 inch to 1/2 inch larger.
When I got my One m7 way back, I thought it was awesome and compared to what was out there, it was. That is until other phones came out that were the same size but had smaller bezels, didn't waste space with a giant logo and capacitive buttons. A clear successor in design IMO.
Maybe it's just me but since everyone can do nice specs, a decision on a phone comes down to smaller things and for me, screen size/quality is one of the most important. The way the front of the phone looks is important, and how well utilized the space is is important. HTC has always done a horrible job utilizing space well so far as I've seen.
I hate it. The design is fine but why? Don't copy Apple just to get a few new users to switch. Stick with the M8 style design with some differences. Bezeless? The specs are not that great. They even removed boomsound wtf. (unless it is considered a mid range phone).
They need to spend some money and get ultra specs. They need a 4k screen, ultra boomsound speakers that are really loud with a pop out speaker like the old HTC Surround while keeping it a thin phone, Snapdragon 820 with 2 gh and 3-4 gigs of ram, a 25 ultra pixel rear camera with Nikon DLSR sensors to bring the ultimate in picture taking and making it the best camera phone ever even better than some stand alones, 6 ultra pixel front facing cam, 3500 MaH battery. Now if they did that, I'd buy that in a heart beat or are these features too unrealistic?
HTC needs to realize people care about what is written on the specs sheet next to the phone in a phone store. People see low numbers (even though the processor may optimize it to make the low numbers feel like higer for example battery MaH) they will go to another phone that has higher numbers on the specs sheet.
I just really hope they change their mind about their design philosophy to me its not a good change, but I applaud the hardware and the fact they have marshmellow running on it already
MsEvyLynch said:
I hate it. The design is fine but why? Don't copy Apple just to get a few new users to switch. Stick with the M8 style design with some differences. Bezeless? The specs are not that great. They even removed boomsound wtf. (unless it is considered a mid range phone).
They need to spend some money and get ultra specs. They need a 4k screen, ultra boomsound speakers that are really loud with a pop out speaker like the old HTC Surround while keeping it a thin phone, Snapdragon 820 with 2 gh and 3-4 gigs of ram, a 25 ultra pixel rear camera with Nikon DLSR sensors to bring the ultimate in picture taking and making it the best camera phone ever even better than some stand alones, 6 ultra pixel front facing cam, 3500 MaH battery. Now if they did that, I'd buy that in a heart beat or are these features too unrealistic?
HTC needs to realize people care about what is written on the specs sheet next to the phone in a phone store. People see low numbers (even though the processor may optimize it to make the low numbers feel like higer for example battery MaH) they will go to another phone that has higher numbers on the specs sheet.
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I don't agree with you on this, HTC hasn't copied from Apple. But it is other way round.
This is the design that HTC has pioneered and continued to evolve. There is a reason why iPhones and Samsung devices now look like they do, because HTC has a superior design. They always seem to fall short when it comes to specs and marketing.
Xenosis said:
My point is that any capacitive/hardware buttons that can be done in software are redundant and they are especially atrocious when taking up screen real estate. When done in software, the screen can be 1/3 inch to 1/2 inch larger.
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My point was that since HTC already went with a physical home button at the front which doubles as a fingerprint scanner, they might as well include the other capacitive buttons. Having just one button on the front seems kinda pointless. But I do agree that the fingerprint sensor should be on the side or on the back.
MsEvyLynch said:
I hate it. The design is fine but why? Don't copy Apple just to get a few new users to switch. Stick with the M8 style design with some differences. Bezeless? The specs are not that great. They even removed boomsound wtf. (unless it is considered a mid range phone).
They need to spend some money and get ultra specs. They need a 4k screen, ultra boomsound speakers that are really loud with a pop out speaker like the old HTC Surround while keeping it a thin phone, Snapdragon 820 with 2 gh and 3-4 gigs of ram, a 25 ultra pixel rear camera with Nikon DLSR sensors to bring the ultimate in picture taking and making it the best camera phone ever even better than some stand alones, 6 ultra pixel front facing cam, 3500 MaH battery. Now if they did that, I'd buy that in a heart beat or are these features too unrealistic?
HTC needs to realize people care about what is written on the specs sheet next to the phone in a phone store. People see low numbers (even though the processor may optimize it to make the low numbers feel like higer for example battery MaH) they will go to another phone that has higher numbers on the specs sheet.
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Dude, first of all, anything that has to do with Nikon sucks. Second of all, complaining like that just makes you look bad.
herzig.grant said:
Dude, first of all, anything that has to do with Nikon sucks. Second of all, complaining like that just makes you look bad.
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I'm not complaining, I'm just stating what HTC needs to do to get back where they need to be. Going this route is just making it worse for them.
Honestly I think it is a dumb a** phone and it seems like HTC is in self destruct mode
MsEvyLynch said:
I'm not complaining, I'm just stating what HTC needs to do to get back where they need to be. Going this route is just making it worse for them.
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Yeah you have a point.
I've used HTC phones basically for almost every upgrade I had. I found their build and quality to always be top notch. What I liked about HTC is that you can almost always unlock the bootloader and go the custom rom route and the boomsound speakers. The One A9 ditched everything to try to get more people to like HTC. What I want is a HTC phone with top notch specs 5.1-5.5" screen, I could care less about finger print scanning but sure whynot, a nice shooter with OIS and a competitive price point and I think they should be able to get back. Sense skin on the HTC is what makes the experience unique.
nice especially the design though I'm not impressed with its built and other stuff. sticking with the N5 ndysf
Best thing about HTC these days is still Sense interface. Stock android, Samsung etc...OS/look/feel is garbage. I remember when I first got the Nexus, the one with the led trackball..years ago. I almost dumped that thing in 1 day until I found the ability to get an updated Rom with better apps/design and look/feel of the phone. HTC was a saving grace. Get rid of Blinkfeed, keep the clean/polished apps of Sense and interface...and put some real serious hardware in the phone.
Only good thing about this is going to be marshmellow/developers and the ability to have all carriers supported and unlocking out of the box in the US. Otherwise, from the forums, you can see how support of the M9 and later variants have decreased over the years.
Don't know. Maybe sell the M9 and try the A9...I don't do much with my phone, and the little I do, I really need a better polished interface that Apple/MS have done well for years versus the Android.
Shoot, been playing with Candy 5 on my M9 which is pretty close to Marshmellow and standard Android, what a piece of garbage interface/apps they still produce Google....pretty pathetic considering.
Unfortunately, I'm on Verizon for the next year...likely jump ship in 14 months and go back to something like ATT/Cricket and universal/GSM phones. Good thing my wife/kids have iPhones that will work on any network already. Just need to dump my VZW M9 and move on with my life...gheez. The mobile/cell phone business is really a joke with many manufacturers, such a cluster these days and so many options, most Android.