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Greetings guys, ive just bought the Xperia Z5 but for some reason there semms to be a problem with the lens, i am here to ask you if you can confirm this issue with your phone, i took a snapshot of my monitor and ive found out that the middle of the picture is of crispy clear quality, but as soon as i move a little to the left on the bottom part of the screen i find a blurr and if i move even further to the left the blurr is gone.
Is this normal? is there any hidden plastic stickers glued on the camera lens that i should remove?
Please take a minute to look at my pictures to help me understand if im missing something or it is really a defect unit, my version is REV2, android updated to latest firmware and camera settings cleared.
Both 20mp and 8mp pictures have this problem visible, due file size limitation ill only post the 8mp one with red arrows and text showing exactly where the blurr is:
8mp
http://postimg.org/image/xap2uuy6l/full/
EDIT: After the phone swap, the blurry picture is gone, now the image is crystal clear without any problems whatsoever:
http://postimg.org/image/fc6v40yvd/full/
Best regards,
Eugen.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/im-doing-tally-z5-series-affected-left-t3242302
Contact Support
Just have a conversation with Sony Xperia Support center. They would be in better position to answer your queries.
Regards,
Riya Taneja
Xperia support might say "we need to take a look" but i dont want to send it to repair as if its defective i can just go to store and swap for a new one.
Please guys, i beg you to take a moment to relook at the photo, this time i added some arrows explaining the issue to be quicker and easier for you to see what im talking about and compare with yours.
http://postimg.org/image/xap2uuy6l/full/
Its not that the left side is blurred, it starts ok then blurrs then goes ok again.
Sorry, but the test doesn't prove anything. Probably unstable image from screen refresh and being hand-held. Try it with a real image - not a monitor - and set it on holder or tripod of some kind. Also don't zoom in so close... cameras have a minimum focal length. My initial impression is that it's not a problem with the Z5.
this is a flat TFT LCD DVI monitor, refresh rate doesnt work as you think they do on digital monitors with digital connections, only the area needing refreshing is actually refreshed rather than the entire screen like a CRT, and if my hands were shaking it was the entire picture that was going to be blurred and not just a tiny portion of the center picture, i also took several photos and the blurred area is exactly in the same spot no matter where i do it.
I just wanted to know if that blurry spot was normal on all phones but this does not semm to be true so ill have to replace mine today.
TheWarKeeper said:
this is a flat TFT LCD DVI monitor, refresh rate doesnt work as you think they do on digital monitors with digital connections, only the area needing refreshing is actually refreshed rather than the entire screen like a CRT, and if my hands were shaking it was the entire picture that was going to be blurred and not just a tiny portion of the center picture, i also took several photos and the blurred area is exactly in the same spot no matter where i do it.
I just wanted to know if that blurry spot was normal on all phones but this does not semm to be true so ill have to replace mine today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to take a landscape photo with focus mode set to infinty or touch to focus and touch the sky for a proper image to view if your camera lenses are decentered, has micro particles on the sensor lenses and/or lens cover is not 100% flat and clear. Could be any of those reasons, none or a mix. If you haven't dropped your phone or in any way damaged it then and have spots of bluriness then it might be factory faulty, either lenses, cover lens or a mix.
Though by looking at your photo I would doubt the lenses are decentered as it appears as soft spots in random places around focus place and doesn't look like decentered lens(es) as there is no "multi-step" ghosting. I would think the cover lens is warped or have spots, dirt smudging or on the sensor lens. But do try the above first. Remember to put the phone on something stable as you dont want any vibrations for test photos.
TheWarKeeper said:
this is a flat TFT LCD DVI monitor, refresh rate doesnt work as you think they do on digital monitors with digital connections, only the area needing refreshing is actually refreshed rather than the entire screen like a CRT, and if my hands were shaking it was the entire picture that was going to be blurred and not just a tiny portion of the center picture, i also took several photos and the blurred area is exactly in the same spot no matter where i do it.
I just wanted to know if that blurry spot was normal on all phones but this does not semm to be true so ill have to replace mine today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh... I'm not going to get into an LCD display discussion. Try a real image with text like a book or a piece of paper. Don't get too close while taking the pic. Set the phone on a stable surface and use the self-timer. We're trying to diagnose the camera, not your monitor.
---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------
FYI, why it's not a good idea to use an LCD monitor to test a camera: PWM. Yes, LCDs can cause flicker, banding, distortion. That's not to mention flicker induced by room lighting on the monitor. So in summary, please do not use a monitor to test a camera.
http://www.wired.com/2014/08/wtf-just-happened-my-computer-monitor-looks-awful-on-camera/
I can see the wording of "how powerful" is blur. The word below it of "certain" also blur, as well as below it of "straightened out".
Both edge of left and right is also blur.
But still better you test with others object for example a wording from book/paper not the monitor.
Great news guys! swapped my phone at the store for a new one and here are the new results
http://postimg.org/image/fc6v40yvd/full/
Blurr free, YESS!! im so happy with my new phone now! With the old phone when i got at the store I even snapped a book text instead of a monitor text (taking into account what you guys tought about the monitor) to prove them that it was the lens fault and not just a bad photo and they seen the blurr exactly in the same spot of the camera lens no matter how many photos i took.
I came from samsung galaxy s6 very dissapointed that my phone had isocell instead of the sony imx240, isocell sensor (same of the galaxy s5) has way worse edge blurr than this phone and the details are soft all across the board, the only advantage of the isocell is in low light because of its OIS, but even then the colors are washed out and black is tinted as purple with iso ver 400, noise is visible more with xperia z5 than with isocell but the xperia z5 has much more sharp image and details in daylight come much clearer, overall i like this phone alot more than the galaxy s6.
Thank you all for your time guys, im a happy owner now and i when i get the chance ill do my best to help you with what info i can for the attention paid to my cry for help.
Cheers.
Sigh... i spoke too soon, this new phone has 6 dead pixels, what on earth is going on with Sony?
I guess I'm lucky then, I don't notice any blur in my pictures, or what do you guys think? https://goo.gl/photos/DneNpL8KVQtobykc7
So I got an Idol 3 5.5 that fell from 15cm off the ground and of course broke it's screen, so a friend gave me his old iPhone 4S as a replacement until I decide what I will do with the Alcatel. I'm a semi-professional photographer and have been using SLRs and DSLRs for some 15 years. I am astounded how good the camera on the 4 and (almost) a half years old iPhone 4s is, especially compared to the half year old Alcatel. But it's not that the iPhone is excellent (although it is), the Alcatel is, well, not so good.
So, here's a test I did. I photographed the same subject in the same lighting conditions (artifical constant indoor light so no variations in lighting between shots) from the same position, maybe a few milimeteres to the side (not farther or closer to skew the perspective/depth of field).
Photos in next post so I can add attachments to it
Are you kidding me, I can't post photos?
You should not have expected superb photo quality. The cost of the phone speaks for itself.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not.
How are you a semi-professional photographer and comparing an iPhone to the Idol 3. There is more to cameras than just megapixels you know and Apple is known for having top-of-the-line cameras in their phones. Also, if you are an avid photographer, why did it take you getting an iPhone in order to confirm that you don't like the Idol 3 photos?
lying about what though? I don't think they claimed to take better pics than an iphone 4s?
OK guys, it would all make much more sense if I could post photos, but I was actually not comparing the photo quality from iPhone and Alcatel, but rather the exposure values, where the EXIF suggests that the lens on the Alcatel is not f/2.0, but actually something smaller. In the same lighting conditions the iPhone photo had these values:
f/2.4, 1/20s, ISO 200
and the Idol 3:
f/2.0, 1/50s, ISO 1800
and this suggests that there is significantly less light coming to the chip of the Alcatel (almost three stops less). I have tested the exposure value of this situation with my Nikon and it is in sync with the iPhone EXIF values. Also, depth-of-field of the image on the Alcatel when compared to the iPhone is also confirming this. I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong! Maybe my unit is defective?Please, try to shoot the same frame with the Alcatel and some other camera and compare the exposure values.
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
Yeah I know that this sensor is used in a variety of cameras and have seen images from the 1+ and they were great! But again, I'm not talking about the quality of the image, I'm talking about it's objective performance in terms of the amount of light that comes to the sensor which seems to be less than they state it should be.
I just remembered that the camera app has that "Pro" mode which makes it possible to manually input the ISO and shutter speed so I will try to do it again comparing it to the iPhone, DSLR and my wife's Sony T3 later today.
I'm sure they used a lens of lower quality but it shouldn't block almost three stops of light compared to other lenses.
Hemidrosis said:
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
1 -
mrkva123 said:
I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
I'm not saying that they are lying definitely but I'm just asking cause this sounds strange.
Yeah, I can use the phone although its screen is broken since only one part (lower) of the screen is not functioning and the phone is flippable, so I need to constantly flip it to use different parts of the screen.
I sincerely doubt that the fall damaged the camera or any parts of it cause everything works, no artifacts or anything else.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the lens, chip, software or anything else. Image shot at f/2.0, 1/50s and ISO 200 will have the same exposure value (it would look to be equally light or dark) whether it was shot on an Alcatel Idol 3 or a professional Hasselblad medium-format 50 000 € camera or a film camera, or a camera obscura. Exposure is objectively measurable and is expressed with these values, nothing to do with the quality of the parts used and nothing to do with the quality of the photo, it's just the amount of light, not the quality of it or the image!
I have uploaded the photos to a image hosting service but I can't link to them, I tried numerous times.
DallasCZ said:
1 - and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
so, here are the images
first I shot with the iPhone since it can only shoot full auto:
http://imgur.com/CE9xNOc
EXIF says that it's:
1/20 sec, ISO 160 and f/2.4
So I set the Alcatel in the manual mode as follows to be as close to the iPhone shot:
1/30 sec, ISO 200 and the aperture is according to Alcatel, f/2.0 (although when I shot it in manual mode the aperture value is mysteriously omitted from the EXIF). the photo from the Alcatel should be brighter on these settings!
and here's what we get:
http://imgur.com/7d7c407
Once again, this has nothing to do with quality of the camera or any other parts involved, it's not that the Alcatel is worse, it is wrong.
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
mrkva123 said:
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i see what are you trying to tell, but i as i said, its a mobile phone i dont care.
But as i remember, there was same issue on my previous ZTE V5..the first firmwares said,that the aperture is 2.2 ...people complain about it and they have corrected it in next firmware.
So here can it be also. Ask on redit or in main XDa QA section, maybe someone who better understands optics and photograpy will tell you.
easyriider said:
I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
TallTommy said:
Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree! Because of you I gave it a try, amazing app + Now it's on sale. Wow
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no single piece of dust on my camera..i have it for about 9 months allready.
My camera is also perfectly clean after more than half a year. I don't think they are lying about the specs. I suspect that the problem here is in the t-stop, which no lens manufacturer ever tells you about. The lens on the idol 3 is probably f/2 as they claim, but the amount of light that reaches the sensor has almost nothing to do with the f-stop, it's the t-stop that determines that. You can't actually rely on the f/stop for exposure (though it's a good approximation, usually), the f/stop is really only accurate for the depth of field that you get. I suspect that the t-stop on the idol 3 is lower than the one of the iPhone, while the t-stop of the iPhone happens to be more similar to the one of your DSLR lens. Though I have to say, the exposure difference in the photos you posted is very dramatic, maybe about 2 stops? I don't know if the t-stop can cause such a big difference.
That said, you could also easily test if the idol 3 camera is actually f/2. The idol 3 has a 6.1mm x 4.64mm sensor, and an 3.8mm focal length. Considering the sensor size, the crop factor is 7,2. As you probably know, the crop factor not only affects the focal length, but also the f/stop (and in fact also the ISO, but that doesn't matter now). So the idol 3 has a 35mm equivalent f/stop of f/2 x 7,2= f/14.4 (as far as DoF is concerned, not the exposure, obviously. This is the reason that it's so hard to get nice background blur on photos from smartphones unless you are very close up, it's because they have crazy small apertures like our idol 3 here at f/14.4. Again this is ONLY for DoF, not exposure. Basically because the sensor is very small, the aperture being small doesn't matter for exposure, the amount of light per pixel is about the same as if it was f/2 with a 35mm sensor.)
So, you could grab your Full Frame DSLR, set it to 27,4mm and f/14.4, (or if you have a 1.5x crop sensor DSLR, at 18.2mm and f/9.6), and then take a test picture with that DSLR and one with the idol 3. It's a DoF test shot, so take that into account when taking the photos (maybe set up a couple of items in a row, get them in frame in the same way on the idol 3 and DSLR, and focus on the frontmost item). The pictures from the DSLR and idol 3 should look about the same, DoF wise. The idol 3 will likely be noisier and not as sharp, and the exposure may be different too, but if the DoF is very different, then the idol 3 is not f/2. Setting up the DoF test shots might be tricky, because the minimum focusing distance is probably very different on the idol 3 and DSLR, but if you take these test shots we will at least know for certain if it is f/2 or not.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Dust in the lens, all we are is dust in the lens..." lol No problems here, and everyone is free to do what they want with their phones, but I assume you are not using a full coverage case? I really can't believe some of the things I see people complain about when they don't use a quality case, and nowadays, a 9H glass screen protector. Not picking on you, and it's possible, even likely you got a bad unit. But "I dropped my phone, and I can't believe the pos shattered! I read it had blah blah next generation glass!" That one really makes me laugh.
And as far as the camera, There are lots of options for downloading/porting other cameras, with better settings and software. It's a $200 cell phone, and taking good pics is something that is important to me, so I always do a little searching on the forums of the new phones I get. I only paid $109 from Cricket, but even at $249 retail, what you get for the money is an amazing piece of technology, not a dedicated top of the line camera. And picture quality is somewhat subjective when you are talking about contrast, exposure, and saturation. Just one man's opinion....
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
You will be blown by the photos you take with the normal version so you don't need to buy the pro version 6GB ram and 128GB Storage is enough for everything from gaming to taking photos, browsing and anything i can say.
No I really don't care about the more RAM and Rom. Just curious about the photos only!
I ordered the Pro. Should arrive next week. Frankie Tech on youtube will upload a camera comparison of the two very soon.
cycloholic said:
Hello,
I have bought just yesterday the normal version (non pro) and I would like to ask if anyone knows the differences at the pictures between the 7p and 8p lenses? In theory the 8p can capture more light, but how is this translated in real life? Does it worth the extra money for that difference? (I have a 14 day window to return it this is why I ask)
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
amount of lens group doesnt mean you can capture more light. Extra lens is used for correcting distortion, color aberration etc. The apperture itself is the same pro or not pro. So it should be able to capture same amount of light.
in daily usage, difference in camera result will be minor
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
adira.mardiani said:
Sorry if out of topic, I have a plan to buy this device, at the moment speak about lens (and apperture), some one says (mkbhd & droidlime) this device have a small focus area, and create a small focus object and large blur area, event the object is large in frame.
Maybe it's personal preference, but can this character can fix (create focus area larger) by software update or it's a hardware character and cannot change with software ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
For more details about how sensor size affecting focus area :
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
otonieru said:
If anything, extra lens element is actually one extra layer of glass/plastic that will filter any light captured. So, better image maybe yes (by slight), but more light ? Am not sure how that works in photography logics, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Kasallamacher said:
yeah doesn't make sense but at the same time Xiaomi didn't add another lense for the lols and didn't give that exact version to Dx0Mark for no reason...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i wrote above,
The extra lens definitely not for lol. Extra lens element is used for variety of reasons, mostly to correct distortion and color aberration. But definitely not for extra light reasons.
Kasallamacher said:
Xiaomi said it should capture more light.
Why did I go for the Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually in a Lens group, more len can capture more light is true.
for example, 8p lens maybe capture 99.5% of light, but 7p lens maybe only 99.2%.
The different is not big.
But "more light" is not the major benefit.
Usually more lens may correct the image better to fit the sensor.
Mi note 10 pro has problem focusing
otonieru said:
To understand this, you will need to understand the correlation between sensor size and depth of field.
Put it simple, bigger camera sensor have capability to geta shallower depth of field.
This is an advantage if you like to shot some scene which have a distinct foreground object, and want to have good separation with background. Think portrait, for example.
But this might become disadvantage when you try to get a lot of object to be in focus. Example would be a group shot with some people standing behind others. The one stand behind might be already out of focus range.
This is hardware characteristic, which applied to any camera out there. Back in film era, this happen to medium format cam. In digital camera era, you can compare the depth of field between full frame camera, APS-C camera and Micro 4/3rd camera. Image from full frame camera (which has bigger sensor than other) will always have smaller focus area (shallower depth of field) when being used in same apperture setting.
This is physics. Even if you try to compensate it using software (by put sharpening in object that located further from camera), it still there, the effect.
The only thing can change this is if smartphone camera start having an active apperture system (you can change F value). But since by today, all smartphone still using fixed apperture in its lenses, nothing can be done related to what you ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi otonieru
I appreciate you explaining the relationship between sensor size and depth of field.
My new note 10 pro main camera seems to have trouble focusing even in good day light, it repeatedly focuses on the background instead of the person i want to photograph, even though i physically tap the person's face on screen. The 5x camera focuses fine though.
Do you think this is a hardware or software issue?
Many thanks!
Hi everyone,
As the name of the thread, can someone explain the difference between the two types of Lens group?
8p are only on pro version
7p on normale mi note 10
Reading some info in the web, there s a lot of confusion about this:
some say that 8p can capture more light than 7p, but it is something that I don't think because the sensitivity to light is determined by the sensor itself and by the aperture (f1.7 on both), not by the lenses.
some others say that the images are sharper on the 8p, and it's another thing I don't believe in, unless the quality of the lenses themselves, regardless of their number, is lower on the 7p. And i don t think so
I think instead that this famous extra lens on the pro version has been inserted to correct the strong distortion at the edges of the image that is encountered on the standard version.
below I insert a link (the only comparison I have found) where both models are compared. even the result of the mi note 10 standard is described as sharper!?
but it is difficult to evaluate because none of the photos in this video are enlarged enough to find out if it is true.
Maybe with a link of full res images....
https://youtu.be/ncnnFrdw50M
I'd be happy to know what you think, and if anyone here is an expert in these techniques (I'm sure that's the case) they can also provide some further explanation regarding this difference.
thank you all,
merry christmas and happy day
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
oooooh a competent person that provides reliable and scientific information. it is always a satisfaction to receive this type of feedback!
so how, using logic, I thought ... the improvement from 7p to 8p is not on the sharpness, contrast or brightness of the photo, but on the various chromatic imperfections that can be found in the saved shot.
moreover, things that can be easily corrected with lrm, i think.
thank you!
carlosml1 said:
I have both and the difference is very little, only the pro manages better backlight and in dark areas a little more light
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Click to collapse
Thank you! Can you upload some samples of both devices please?
otonieru said:
As i explained in other thread,
Lens element is used mostly for correction, whether its distortion or abberation, it can be color abberation, fringing, and elses,
Some people won't believe it though (i guess most of them were never used and know about how lens elements work and used in all those other lenses in other camera system, named it medium format, 35, dslr, mirorless, etc), and keep saying that it can bring more light. But again, how can you bring more light when you put an extra glass/plastic in front of your sensor, right ? ;b. The correct term is not "more light" but, "better light", since the lens element filter out/correct out flaw from the light. Example would be how "achromatic" or "apochromatic" lens used to minimise the color fringe effect (caused by lens dispersion) - read here if you want to read details : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
Btw, the light is indeed determined by the lens apperture and the sensitivity of the sensor itself. But lenses also play parts in how they transmit the light to the sensor, the better the lens is, the better the light quality (notice i say quality, not simply quantity) is, which means, the better the data captured by the sensor. Better data normally would mean better image as well.
Being that case, more lens element not always translate to better image. Since its the quality of the lens, not amount that actually affecting the result most.
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Click to collapse
so do you think that the 8p pro version has more sharpness in the shots against the 7p version? I m quite thinking ti sell mine and buy the pro but i don t understand if the img quality in terms of sharpness exists.
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
carlosml1 said:
left my note 10 right my note 10 pro
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very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
mezza8512 said:
very interesting, Thank you
The First thing i see Is a different White balance.
In terms of contrast and sharpness i see the same result, but near the external limits of the image, there s some distorsion and lack of sharpness on the mi note 10 standard. Pro has a Better result: look at the leaves at the left limite of the images! There s a difference.
instead in the rest of the image I see the exact same quality of detail, definition and sharpness.
Am i wrong?
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Click to collapse
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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sharpness at the center of the image Better on pro, or Is the same in the two versions?
carlosml1 said:
Yes, it's true, I also see the note 10 pro better, today is a cloudy and foggy day here
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please can you post a link with full res images of both devices in some conditions? Daylight, interior and low light of both devices ... Thank you
Ok now i have both versions and i can directly compare the difference.
first, I notice a larger area of focus, it seems that this additional lens gives a better direction to the light and to the ability to focus. this is also noticeable when taking a photo at night, in a street with public lighting, and the rings around the light are much more concentrated and less widespread than on the standard version.
there is also a better dynamic range, with more details in the dark areas, especially in the low light shots.
another interesting thing is the software, because it is not the same as the standard version. the differences are minimal, but I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
the images are less "soft" and more processed by the sw.
different speech in the photos of the interior and on the photos to people, where the pro version works better getting better details and faster and more precise focus.
ultimately, the differences are not in favor of one version rather than the other, but in a different way of interpreting the scene.
0.6 x, macro, 2 x, 5x are the same, while from 10x up there is a better detail because the interpolation of the main sensor intervenes, which thanks to better optics, guarantees better details.
verdict:
Is 8p better than 7p?
yes, but only if you want to take photos at "pedal to the metal" of the search for detail and the final result after post production.
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
mezza8512 said:
...
but this is such a small difference that 99% of users will have no real benefits in this upgrade, unless they want more ram and more rom.
regards!
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Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
A Minh said:
Can you post the original file from both on pro mode (108mp and raw format enable) in the same condition? Maybe we can see more clearly when heavy editing their photos (raw file) in the lr ?
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Click to collapse
Sorry my friend but i sold both mi note 10 long time ago
mezza8512 said:
I notice a different white balance, a higher jpg compression, greater contrast and oversharpening.
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Click to collapse
Hi, sorry for bringing this so late, but I'm interesting in this phones. It's not clear to me which version above has higher JPEG compression? I assume it's the Mi Note 10 (not Pro)? It wouldn't make much sense the other way around. Also, which one has higher contrast and over-sharpening - Pro or non-Pro?
I know you probably don't remember it now, but it's worth a shot to ask.
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
blackhawk said:
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
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I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
TheNewLegend said:
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
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Click to collapse
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
blackhawk said:
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
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Click to collapse
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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Remember there's more than one cam... Friends? Never watched it.
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
beserker15 said:
They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
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For wide angle use the save option to automatically apply correction. This is for primarily image distortion though.
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
brachiopod said:
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
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Wonder if it just automatically does it now?
That screenshot is from my N10+ running on Pie... meh, I don't like rude surprises
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
ssglackey said:
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
TheNewLegend said:
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
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Click to collapse
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already did that too
TheNewLegend said:
I already did that too
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Click to collapse
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
ssglackey said:
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is sd so it is..
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the standard 12Mpix mode everything far enough is sharp and in focus, using the same lens, only in 108Mpix mode you see this issue. Your statement is valid, but with tiny sensors in smartphones all distant object must be equally in focus. I can't achieve such blur for distant object with Full frame mirrorless (35mm f1.8) and that is another league.
TheNewLegend said:
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
After a comparison with s21 ultra there was a slight difference in sharpness, however I don't know why but the colors were much better with the s21.
I'll compare them again later.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like glackey said, even with my FF camera both of the subjects will be in focus, I don't think that DOF is the issue here.
steveroysston said:
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
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Click to collapse
Both of the phones were steady and the lens was clean.