Database Info

Submitting Patches to the Repo / Forking

Hi all!
I'm an android developer, and I regularly read the official android-dev and android-porting lists, but on all the fan blogs and from lurking here, it seems that all the good development is coming from XDA-dev!
So why don't you guys do some patch submission? Features like auto-rotating browser and the transition animations should really, really be in the main source, but the official Android team have their thumbs up their asses in regards to UI/polished stuff.. (I bet they're too busy working on the lower level cellular stuff and the ARM-generating stuff like in the *flinger libraries).
So you guys should make some patch submissions over at (http://source.android.com/submit-patches)!
That way, the next RC will have all of these lovely features you guys have implemented.
((Or, alternately (but more ambitiously), fork the entire codebase. Strip out the DRM and add a framework for native code execution. Perhaps that's a pipe dream, though..))
Thoughts?

I think forking the Android source would be a very nice touch, if Google doesn't pull it together. We could still add on to stuff from the official code, but add on all the special stuff that Google refuses to (they've said they won't add the ability to change CPU speed, etc).

Oh, absolutely, there would be numerous advantages to having a fork. It should definitely be discussed! I'm afraid that Google may be trying to exert too much control on their platform in ways that we don't always want, so there is nothing legally to stop us from forking and maintain a more badass tree. GitHub could provide the hosting.
Of course, it might be a waste of effort. If you submit the badass patches, then the good features here go out into all the phones in the next versions. Work on the fork, and only the selected users who are able to flash their own phones can use it, unless some Chinese companies start using it or something like that.
Names?
XanDroid? I'd rather like to see Mandroid with in a slick black theme..

Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)

Seanambers said:
Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)
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Do you think that the release of the new unlocked Dev phones will change things?

Yeah it'll most probably shake things up a bit, however what about all those that already have a g1?
I for sure isnt buying a new phone to get root.

But even so, we're still talking about modifications to the OS and the packaged applications, which would be released in the next RC version, so even non-root users would get the features in the next update, along with anyone running Android on something besides a G1.

my .02
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...

bhang said:
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...
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Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .

I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.

Gary13579 said:
Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .
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Given the number of G1s with modified fw installed compared to the total number of sold units, I somehow doubt the number of users is going to plummet.
IMHO it would be a needless fork unless some new or considerably modified features were planned. Better to just patch the functionality into the official builds, if at all possible.

I'm not convinced by that logic. There would be an important difference between a fork and patched versions of the firmware, as a fork would have a totally different design philosophy. Whereas Android is focused on speed (or whatever the hell they're concentrating on..but to be honest, I think they're dicking about over there), Mandroid could have more focus on polished features and low-level access. ((And! No DRM, and I'd like to see some more security features..ZRTP?))
Either way, I think it's really important for the success of the open future of phones that the open source community take and give back. There's no need for the back-and-forth like with, say, PSP-cracking as we have the source code and we are allowed to do whatever we like with it. If we just keep patching what they give us and keeping the modifications closed, then we aren't really in control.
As for project management, I'm absolutely sure there are people who are capable of maintaining an active open-source project such as this, as long as there is a well-thought out design philosophy. I'd love to be involved, if enough people are willing to give it a shot. But, first, it'd be easier just to submit patches.

Miserlou! said:
PSP-cracking
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PSP cracking is insanely different. If you were in that scene, does my name look familiar ? Was net admin at toc2rta/malloc, admin of psp-hacks.com, worked with a lot of people on a lot of stuff that I barely remember as it was years ago .
But for the PSP, we were working with a system we knew nothing about. So yes, Android would be a lot simpler to work with. But if Google doesn't listen to us, it's not like it would really matter.

neoobs said:
I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.
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Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.

2 words
The community(did I spell that right?)
Bhang

Datruesurfer said:
Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.
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I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?

neoobs said:
I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?
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That's what project leads are for. And hypothetically when enough people are dissatisfied with the xda-dev fork they will go and create their own fork. Except I don't think there is any real argument yet to go and create an xda-dev fork in the first place. Forking an operating system meaningfully is not a weekend project for a single person.

I have said it before, let's give them a bit more of a chance, a fork isn't something a guy can do in a weekend.
So let's see what happens in RC3X, the next release will give folks a bbetter idea of where their heads are at. If enough of the community is unhappy there will be a fork
Bhang

Possible PSP-esque war between Google/Tmobile and hackers?

What does everyone think will happen with future revisions of Android in regards to the fork between the stock G1s with OTA updates and the hacked G1s with manual updates with the test keys?
Hopefully this doesn't turn into Sony's militant locking down of the PSP via every firmware upgrade. Even though I never owned a PSP, I thought it was absolutely insane that Sony would try so hard to keep people from using their purchased equipment in any way they wanted to.
I totally understand that Google had to release RC30 to shut down a GIGANTIC security exploit that could have (but not likely) been used compromise phones. I'm sure it's in their interest to keep a homogeneous G1 userbase but would they actively try to relock rooted phones?
I'm hoping they just leave the rooted G1s alone. Mostly because we bought the phones and they are OURS. We are obligated to stay with Tmobile until the contract is up because the price is subsidized but we are not obligated (in my opinion) to retain the software they were shipped with. Obviously if my phone has a software problem I won't be calling Tmobile. On the other hand, if there is a hardware defect I'm certainly reflashing RC30 and sending it back under warranty.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. I think it was great that Tmobile UK was good enough to open a dialog about possibly allowing root access but I don't think they really understand what "root access" is or care as long as they sell phones under contract. I don't think Google really cares either since they have open sourced all of the OS that we are modifying which is in the spirit of Open Source Software anyway. I think as long as they get their marketshare, they will be happy.

I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers...next i dont thnk that google would do this but t-moble might.But in my opinion i think they will as soon as they start hacking the pay apps. that will start later this year.

HOGWILD said:
I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers
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Hogwild hit the nail right on the head. I don't think T-Mo/HTC will engage in a drawn out battle to "steal" back root simply because there is no real financial motivation to do so. I'm of the mind that it's best not to begin speculating unless one of the aforementioned company takes a step in that direction. There's no point whipping up another possible flame-war over something that might never happen.

Ya I agree they are our phones 1 thing you left out not everybody is under contract some ppl paid full price on a prepaid 90 service plan then they get their unlock code. Some people didn't qualify for the upgrade price of 179$ and some people are under contract eiither of all three it is owned by the user the day they signed or paid. Tmobile won't take back a used g1 for failure to honor the 2 year agreement they will bill the customer.
So the whole open source push... and market. There and hundreds of. Thousands of programmers who make programs for the love of advancing "things" look how popular sourceforge is. So you get people who will create a program and demand a nominal fee say 14.95 the dev only gets 70% of the price and the wireless carrier get 30% for nothing. I . Defently there being an underground "market place" that bypasses that standard one to allow people to download free apps. The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
My 2 cents

diabolical28 said:
The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
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There are a lot of idiots in the world with money to waste. Rest assured, the paid apps will have retarded comments as well.

qft
rabble:rabble

Wow I hate people that don't know what they talking bout. I wanna clear up a few thing. Being a psp dev I can tell you it wasn't bout the hacking and homebrew. the psp updates were to stop piracy. Btw most exploit on psp were by sony. If you own a psp atlease you would know a little about the scene. Secondly, the root bug is dangerous to us. Google own dev are helping us htc people are leaking tools and t-mobile always let us screw them over. So no it not gonna be no war going on it all for our safety untill the software is right. As you can see we're like test bunnys and when a bug you should be greatful that they release update. So while I love having root access it not that serious right now it just would be right to compare this to the iphone jailbreak scene. Once paid app are here I wouldn't be shock if update start coming to block test key and resigning to respect developer work. Read before posting and short answer no unless as needed

There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.

danguyf said:
There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.
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Correct. And you can bet that there will be handsets running builds of Android not maintained by Google which will not run Android Market. Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves. I'm concerned that that fracturing of the ecosystem will impede overall market acceptance. And i'm not even talking about the inevitable outcome of Android "strains" that slowly become sdk incompatible with each other.
Here's a posting I made on android-platform and Dianne Hackborn's response:
Right, I'm thinking along the device manufacturer side of things. As
an imperfect analogy, is the Android team okay with manufacturers
producing their own Android builds which may be slightly incompatible
with each other (a la Symbian's various flavors), or will all
manufacturers be encouraged/required to adhere to some technical
requirements checklists in order to brand their phone as Android-
powered? (more like say Windows Mobile).
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We won't, this is something we will be actively discouraging (or from a
positive perspective, doing whatever we can to encourage android devices
to be compatible).
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Of course with an open source project "actively discouraging" can only go so far...

jashsu said:
Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves.
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The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."

From what I've heard from Google folks, they aren't that interested in the root thing, that is more a carrier issue. However, the way people originally got root was a serious issue. Not directly because you could get root, but because it was an outright silly bug than could potentially raise havoc on your device if you happened to type the wrong thing on your keyboard.

JesusFreke said:
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."
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I imagine the billing settlement fees could be rather sizeable. I don't run a credit card processing company, but i've seen $.20 - $.30 per transaction thrown around. That's in line with Paypal's fees.
We'll see if other manufacturer/carrier matchups continue to use Android Market. I wouldn't be surprised to see them create their own markets though, simply because if it's possible and there's the slightest financial incentive to do so, eventually someone will do it.

I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Sony did not want homebrew for multiple reasons. The obvious one is ISO playback. No matter what they did, warez was possible. Even back before we had perfected the actual emulation, we could simply patch calls to disc0:/ to ms0:/ and load the EBOOT. If we hadn't figured out how (the first one to truly do it was UMD Emulator, which would patch many of the PSP calls to make it MUCH smoother/more compatible), we could simply expand on this.
The second reason is that we were stepping on their toes, so to speak. They wanted to have many more downloadable minigames that could be booted off of the memstick, something we did years before them. I doubt they liked that we were doing what they planned, and doing it much better/faster.
Thirdly, they were responsible for all bricked devices. Although their unbricking process has always been easy, it costs them time/shipping. It's still a pain and costly for them to do it massively.
This is why they combated it on the PSP so much. On the standard Playstations, they've never had to worry about it this much. They didn't have memory cards that you could easily throw ISOs on, they didn't have any easily loaded software that would allow you to boot them, etc. You had to buy hardware devices (hdloader, the swap program (ffs can't remember the name), or modchips). Pirating the PSP was SO much easier.
Now, onto the G1... a Google employee has already (off the record, speaking for himself, not Google) that they should have just given us root access, especially if HTC was going to be so careless with their NBH images.
If every one was given root access, cracking paid applications would be much easier. Well, that is the belief. In reality, cracking them will be a sinch. With easily done byte code modification, and resigning the APK, I doubt there's an application that CAN'T be cracked. As long as you could install apps from browser/SD card, you can crack them. Even if they locked it down to market only, we could spoof DNS servers and run "unofficial" markets with cracked applications. This wouldn't require root access at all.
(excuse any typos, it's 10F outside atm and I'm trying to smoke.)

Gary13579 said:
I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
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I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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The last time I used my PSP was a year ago, as a flash drive so I could reformat my computer. I haven't actually *used* it in years, so anything you saw on QJ wasn't about the real Gary .
But yes that's me, and I was an admin at Dash Hacks.

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Lol what? fIRC lets you connect to any server and any channel.

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Click to collapse
http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/

Extremely disappointed with the android community

I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .

Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.

Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.

Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..

The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA

I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow

I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.

jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.

chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?

Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.

Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L

Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.

Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app

rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)

That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.

jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.

Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.

awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!

I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Random Question

Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either

Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit? Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something. Or did rooting of phones harder? Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an Administrator, Moderator or any type of xda-developers Representative but, the xda-developers does value member feedback and the following thread was created to provide a place for such feedback.
[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA by Fallen Spartan
I wish you the best of luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I Am The Egg Man,
They Are The Egg Men.
I Am The Walrus!
Coo Coo Cachoo!
I DO NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT VIA PM UNLESS ASKED/REQUESTED BY MYSELF.
PLEASE KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

Droidriven said:
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once

Wesley_NL said:
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

Droidriven said:
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda

Wesley_NL said:
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

Droidriven said:
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
I was aiming for one plus 5 but still not what i wanted, samsung still is closest except it's rom, i like to stay led screen as one of my personal features since i watch alot anime on the go, adaway/adblock is my main consern i hate those adds in apps and those popup adds, further a good touchwiz like the 6x6 with settings , although it don't work for me anymore so swapped to nova but nova is not realy like i want it to be , it was nice in the s3 times, sound mods that dont hurt my ears like dolby atmos and viper4android also one of the things i want to keep using , and root is a good thing to have specialy for account swap and reroll in games,
Tbh i liked nokia n900 with maemo/meego and its stereo build in speakers for when i don't wan't to use headphones, and its lovely psychal keyboard
Samsung is good for its nice devices and nearly bezzeless screen , if compare to a sony Atleast

Wesley_NL said:
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc

juzten said:
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the netherland samsung is 2 year waranty even if you root it, i asked samsung care when i fixed the camera, tbh i like the 6x6 mod with settings, i agree nova sucks lately , but i use nova sinxe s3 time when archidroid putted it in the rom and i have pro of nova , well im also ready to see what oreo is like , tbh i like custom roms as i told even if im not making big use of it but i want to stay custom + root for certain apps, also i am gonna see what real chinese brands gonna do with their devices i dont want to waste 1300 euro on a iphone or note8, unlike 99% of idiotic people that only get a device to show off and only to whatsapp and snapchat , also what is the next thing iphones is gonna steal? Nokias charl zies camera? , and that for a lowlife chinese product while a real chinese android is 10x beter,
But realy i look for a divice with atleast
Led screen arround 5.5"+
Nice smooth rom
Not a pre but srereo buildin speakers for if i don't want to wear a headphone
A micro sd card reader
No big bars like a sony more like s8 or mii mix
Good headphone amp
I think that kind im looking for,

Android P

So now we know that we are getting oreo lets talk about P.
According to the article, we should get P because currently, they don't have many devices to work on. Also states the V20 is eligible for P. That's up to LG now.
https://www.theandroidsoul.com/android-p-release-date/#jump-lg

dudeawsome said:
So now we know that we are getting oreo lets talk about P.
According to the article, we should get P because currently, they don't have many devices to work on. Also states the V20 is eligible for P. That's up to LG now.
https://www.theandroidsoul.com/android-p-release-date/#jump-lg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
without the ability to root I will not be staying with this device or any other LG for that matter long enough to think about P

P? Pfft we haven't even seen Oreo yet
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs

I said this in one of runningnak3d's threads, but these Android releases are becoming increasingly pointless and only serve to have Google find more ways to lock us out of customizing our devices under the guise of being up-to-date with the latest software. I have no interest in Android P.
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-p-blocks-custom-overlays-substratum-themes/
Also, they seem hellbent on this rounded corner crap. Welcome to web design and desktop computing in 2005. Stupid.

cnjax said:
P? Pfft we haven't even seen Oreo yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just putting the info out. I don't even know if I'll have the V20 that long.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
WTF - overlays have to be signed now?!? Yes, if you are rooted, you can install your own cert, or patch the cert check out, but that is just ------ WTF?!?
I understand a lot of the security that is in place, but to add security where it isn't needed just so you can keep your LOOK -- SMFH.
All I can say is support Lineage as much as you can (I am), and don't buy phones that are locked down. Google really is trying to turn Android into Windows. Remember how easy it was to modify Windows 95, 98 -- you could replace the entire shell. XP (and even Vista, 7, and 8) you could theme very easily. Then came Win 10. Yes, you can still theme it, but since it is a rolling release, MS is making it harder and harder. Eventually Stardock will give up.
When Android was released, it was so open that you could change pretty much anything, but they are doing the same thing -- locking it down more and more.
We need a third choice. Win Phone wasn't it, and I don't know of any contenders right now that have a chance. This sucks -- it is MS and Apple all over again, only Google replaced MS.
-- Brian

runningnak3d said:
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
WTF - overlays have to be signed now?!? Yes, if you are rooted, you can install your own cert, or patch the cert check out, but that is just ------ WTF?!?
I understand a lot of the security that is in place, but to add security where it isn't needed just so you can keep your LOOK -- SMFH.
All I can say is support Lineage as much as you can (I am), and don't buy phones that are locked down. Google really is trying to turn Android into Windows. Remember how easy it was to modify Windows 95, 98 -- you could replace the entire shell. XP (and even Vista, 7, and 8) you could theme very easily. Then came Win 10. Yes, you can still theme it, but since it is a rolling release, MS is making it harder and harder. Eventually Stardock will give up.
When Android was released, it was so open that you could change pretty much anything, but they are doing the same thing -- locking it down more and more.
We need a third choice. Win Phone wasn't it, and I don't know of any contenders right now that have a chance. This sucks -- it is MS and Apple all over again, only Google replaced MS.
-- Brian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree this really sucks they are moving more and more towards IOS where they lock you in and you can't do much if anything at all. I mean that's the reason I am on Android is becuase of the ability to do more and customize. They need to rethink this and start to let us do what we want. We don't need another IOS leave that to Apple. The freedom to build and customize is what Android is all about and it is sad to see it is going away slowly. Time for the Dev community to build their own os.

Good to hear. I've had mine over a year and hope to have it for a few more. That's why I chose a device with a swappable battery.

One of the reasons AST was developed to demonstrate rooting can be used to perform 100% legitimate and non-criminal operations on a device that a user paid for both hardware and software patent fees. The vendor, have been misleading the market to believe "rooting" and criminal operations are correlated. What AST does is what Android itself offers but a non-rooted user has been locked out of what user has paid for, injustice. Furthermore, the very same vendor that have actively been trying to demise its rival platforms creates an independency on rival's platform to elevate privileges so the user of device can perform tasks that ordinarily unable to do on their own device, referring to 'adb' and how stupid is that? Locking users out of their own device, in the name of security, is a false pretence. This is to appease and serve other corporations that need assurances for their investments WHEN the biggest investors are the users whom are paying for everything but have no say in anything at all because we are "individuals".
You can't find any other business model, at this scale, where consumers are expected to pay considerable amount of money initially for a device that its platform is designed not only to ripp off your wallet even more but also to put a tap on you. As as long as you continue using it, you keep consenting to be controlled and monitored. Right before mobile phones, there were talks about RFID being implanted under skins of citizens to control their movements and more. In that model, not a single citizen would had paid for the RFID implants but now we would queue for days to pay for a new mobile phone.
Like many of you in these forums, I have the sentiment that root privilege is my automatic right to have and I'm not even seeking approval, affirmation, or legal recognition when the very same system issues it can nullify it too.
The only language corporations understand is the language of business, not the boring human/consumers rights. Here is one; why corporations pay billions of dollars to other entities to show us adverts? Why don't they pay consumers to watch their adverts instead? The whole infrastructure for this is already in place, if you have a wallet account with "the vendor", you are set. Here is more business language and mentality for you. If showing adverts to consumers is that precious/vital to your business, as owning a flagship device is to your own typical demographics, then consumers would want a piece of that pie too. Why not? They have invested in paying for all the devices your business platform needed and they want a return, exactly the way you "expect" to have a return for your investments. Don't worry, we will register a limited company or operate under an existing one and pay our taxes to our respective governments the way you do.
Excuse my "politech" rant today.

Google is trying their hardest! to keep up with apple. Apple is already into their own space... DO NOT LOSE YOUR EMAIL OR FACTORY REST YOUR iDEVICE OR SUFFER OUR WRAITH,
Thats why am sticking with the v20 for a while. I dont think there's no more flagships being made with removable batteries.

Sprint's LG v20 has rolled out Oreo 8.0.0

loudawg11 said:
Sprint's LG v20 has rolled out Oreo 8.0.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah like three months ago
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs

cnjax said:
Yeah like three months ago
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I'm late to the v20 party but I just pick it up 2days ago. Glad to see it updated to Oreo. It replaced my Note 3

No more android p for v20, i guess look elsewhere.

There's rumors that LG will release Android pie to the lgv20. Late September 2019. That will sure be a treat.

The sad thing about it is it is supposed to be free from being lock in to app's and yet there is app's I don't use and don't need that keep running in the background that I can't control and there updating constantly using my monthly data paying for stuff that Google have put in my device the only way to get rid off them is rooting that means unlock bootloader put in recovery then root it.........

Just seen that the LG is going to update V20 to 9.0 and it's a fresh link from Android authority about 14 hours back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/android-9-0-update-880718/amp/

Nagesh_Gv said:
Just seen that the LG is going to update V20 to 9.0 and it's a fresh link from Android authority about 14 hours back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/android-9-0-update-880718/amp/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just hope they don't screw with their promise this time, it took 1+ year delay for oreo to be available on my region
I'll be expecting it to arrive at the end of Q4 on IDN region, hopefully..

LOL!!! that was funniest link i have ever seen... Im still on 8.0 on my stock V20 .. let alone 9 !!!

The other forum in XDA too posted the same that LG want to update v20 to p.