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google experience

Google should change policy stating any changes to the google experience they can keep and use as there own. If people want to make there stuff better with out getting paid for it so be it. Instead of a liability they have developement for what ever dessert they plan on cooking up next. We are a small community the masses don't know what they are missing and it seems like google dosent know what they are missing either

1. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=565510
2. how is the related to development of the android platform for the htc dream
3. in before the lock

We really really really didn't need a new thread started about this.
Feel free to add your comments to the other 21,348 XDA threads about the same subject.

hotadef said:
Google should change policy stating any changes to the google experience they can keep and use as there own. If people want to make there stuff better with out getting paid for it so be it. Instead of a liability they have developement for what ever dessert they plan on cooking up next. We are a small community the masses don't know what they are missing and it seems like google dosent know what they are missing either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UUUUUuuuuuuuuggggggghhhhhhhh

Google should change policy stating any changes to the google experience they can keep and use as there own. If people want to make there stuff better with out getting paid for it so be it. Instead of a liability they have developement for what ever dessert they plan on cooking up next. We are a small community the masses don't know what they are missing and it seems like google dosent know what they are missing either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for your input but when you learn to post in the corrent place your thoughts will be considered inane

Why should they? Do you donate all your earnings to charity?
We all need a level of profitability, and google, being a corporation, is pretty greedy about theirs, but you know what, that's their decision.
The community needs to stop bickering about policy and start working towards fixing the problem.
As jbq said, we need to make AOSP usable, right now it's not, and devs have been very negligent about this aspect. Mostly, devs have been making their own apps (which improve nothing over AOSP) or modifiying the existing google builds, but AOSP, the only public domain aspect of android, has remained untouched and up to now only google has been contributing to it.
It's time us, as devs, start making of Android an OS, not just a framework that OEMs can take and add their proprietary bits on top and of little use to anybody else.

david1171 said:
1. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=565510
2. how is the related to development of the android platform for the htc dream
3. in before the lock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude you must post like 50 times a day .. i gotta step my game up
i think xda should just start temp banning whoever posts another anti-google thread just for idiocracy
and lastly RE to the PORTED

xidominicanoix said:
dude you must post like 50 times a day .. i gotta step my game up
i think xda should just start temp banning whoever posts another anti-google thread just for idiocracy
and lastly RE to the PORTED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meh ... Yea .... I'll 2nd that.
~enom~

Google is a monster ...!
Whatever is said on the Google - Cyanogen afair ... one facts remains: Google has become a defacto monopolist which intends to make the Internet a "Pay for Use" business finally ... you will learn it. Microsoft has proved how to suck the money from everybody in the world and Google intends to make it even better.
This saying a person who himself is leading a company struggling for a maximum profit!
Regards

7
Automization said:
Whatever is said on the Google - Cyanogen afair ... one facts remains: Google has become a defacto monopolist which intends to make the Internet a "Pay for Use" business finally ... you will learn it. Microsoft has proved how to suck the money from everybody in the world and Google intends to make it even better.
This saying a person who himself is leading a company struggling for a maximum profit!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
honesty stop beating this dead horse. Seriously. Everyone just stop. All you're doing is cluttering the forum that helps noone.

My Biggest Problem with the Captivate - And It's Silly

First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.

So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.

I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.

vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.

When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.

FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.

rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.

bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.

the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.

I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.

gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.

I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.

i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.

vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*

Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10

Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

[PROJECT] Biophilia App of Björk to Android

Hi.
I have seen these apps from Björk but they don't seem to be for android. They are only for iPhone.
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
She told Drowned in Sound that the apps had been specifically designed so that they could be easily ported to other platforms -- like Symbian, BlackBerry and Android. "We really made sure when we wrote all the programs that they will transfer to other systems."
"I'm not supposed to say this, probably, but I'm trusting that the pirates out there won't tie their hands behind their back."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive...shttp://www.compositiontoday.com/blog/115.asp
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Thanks!
Some videos of these apps. You can interact with the music and make your own versions playing or changing things in a very innovative concept.
http://youtu.be/FsxsGrnCGIk
http://youtu.be/kb3kLXVs9J0
http://youtu.be/0Rx-P2UsD5g

Still waiting!
Did anything ever come of this?

Hey anybody! Do sth about it! She preety much asked to do this, so lets do sth. I guess many people would want this app for android, and here? No reply? Please!

Nobody is interested...
I think this app is cracks for iphone, but it wasn't ported to android... It would be much more interesting.

Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.

[email protected] said:
Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There no hackers who like this app, i would say.

humano said:
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.

mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.
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Thanks Mike for the reply. I didn't see this.
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.

humano said:
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.
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I'm pretty sure. Anyone who claims otherwise is challenged to "show me where the source is".
For Android there is an emulator for PCs that many apps can run on, and an app of this type could run.
I know almost nothing of ios development, but likely there is an ios emulator that can run on a Mac at least ? AFAIR, ios development requires a Mac.
Feel free to send Bjork, or the companies that represent her, email asking about this.
I've been a fan of some of her music, and even acting and I even find her cute... And that's why I responded here. I had an initial thought that this could be an interesting project, but I have no time for such an unpaid hobby project.
BTW, Just looked at the iTunes page and some others. Seems to be a $12.99 app. And says "The full Biophilia App Album is now a paid app for new users, old users maintain same in-app-purchase ability." Something tells me the legal fine print says you're screwed if you hack it, especially if you tried to make a few bucks or do it publicly with your real name.
Artists (with money), hollywood and recording industry types tend to have iPhones. They don't know tech per se, don't want to know tech, and they have the cash to spend. They want something that "just works" and that's what the iPhone does, for a price. And ios is where devs make REAL money. Comparatively speaking, Android sucks for making money.
I saw some comment that they didn't make an Android app "for legal reasons". Sounds like a different way to say "business reasons". I imagine her recording company sells her music on iTunes, but doesn't sell it on Google Play in that big ongoing power play between media companies and tech companies ?

mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person.....
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Click to collapse
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.

mikereidis said:
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.
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Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Chad_Petree said:
Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.

mikereidis said:
Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.
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I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.

humano said:
I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.
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I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.

mikereidis said:
I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.
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I am registered in that forum too and it's what you say. They don't have any idea.... :laugh:
But there's good news, at least somebody told in the forum, that she told in an interview, that she will find a cheap way to port biophilia to android.
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy... We would have a BIOPHILIA+
It's what you told before. She doesn't really understand the power of doing it... :victory:

humano said:
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy...
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Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.

mikereidis said:
Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.
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I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...

humano said:
I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...
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I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.

mikereidis said:
I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.
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She said that in one interview. That's what the people in the 4um.bjork.com say. I think it's real.
I saw her live last sommer and was amazing.

Well Biophilia app is already for Android devices!
Check the playstore https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bjork.biophilia

appeal: let's make CM11 stable!

Hello,
I made that account in order write about some things that I’m annoyed of or which I find very alarming. I’m sure there are some other people in here, who feel the same. I think it’s time to change something about it. I know some of you might be not interested in that and many people just want to get CM12 as fast as possible. This people should maybe not take part of this. To each man his own. I do understand that but this is about changing CM11 to a REAL “Daily Driver”, where everything works right and stable (at least the device-independent things).
This is about the following:
For many mobile phones like the well known Samsung Galaxy Models will be a Kitkat for real the last “halfway functioning” system. Also there has been put a lot of work into CM11, which a have a lot of respect for. Newly Cyanogenmod got a company and as such this Custom Rom is totally different than others – which do their work completely non-paid and voluntary e.g. Omnirom. As a company you have, except of making a lot of money, some responsibilities. You have to place a working product on the marked and I appeal here and today for calling in this responsibility or rather to introduce CM to move form there previous “Kindergarden” to a CM11 which is made perfect. After all Cyanogenmod as a company benefits of us using CM11 (the Community/Open source Project) on your mobile phones. We users are the best Beta-Testers and if CM just doesn’t fix bugs it is not better than Samsung.
Everyday we are complaining about producers like Samsung, because they e.g. do not bring out a 4.4 for the S3. But they at least perform their obligations somehow and continue improving and fixing 4.3. Anyway it (mostly) gets a real functioning product. CM should be interested in satisfying us with this/their product (CM11/s; Oneplus one). Even if we don’t actually have Oneplus one now we are ALL potential, future costumers! And nearby the most buy a Oneplus one BECAUSE they feel confident with CM and their Android Rom! Unfortunately in reality CM11 is far away from real stability and I don’t mean features, which are hardwarenear and sources for drivers like the S3 camera are needed, but completely normal features in the system.
If you only use a few Apps a few times then the current CM11 will work for you and it is usable, but as soon as you need something which is rarely used or which is more complicated you will find bugs. Although, this could be different.
I think it’s shocking that I often read when people are swearing “why should we want Android 5.0 if not even Android 4.4 is working stable!” (Look at the people from N7000, who have not even a M-Release from CM11). But no one is doing anything against it. CM should know that there are people who want stability! Please note that I’m talking about device-independent features. Especially because CM11 current is the BASIS for the CM11S, which is the system for Oneplus one! But what does the community see? The “CM12 roadmap” in which they are talking about: “freezing” CM11 and focusing on CM12. No, that can’t be. Every lifeblood-Custom-Rom maybe could get away with that (even Omni tries to go on with 4.4 for older devices as a “long-term-project”), but no new, real organization. Some may argument and say that with CM10.2 it has been the same, that with the first Nightlys or in general at the beginning of CM11 the final has been there after a very short time, but CM 10.2 as we all know, from past developers who left CM and now work for Omnirom, never had gone through as a stable. They just wanted it to seem like that in order to get sponsors and to show with the statistics, which CM introduced at that time, how many people already use CM. And the i9300 practically is the most used device in that case!
I have posted this post on November the 22nd 2014(as abruptly the Nightlys from CM11 stood still) in a German Android Forum. On the 24th of November 2014 all the Nightlys suddenly worked again, but if you look at the most Changes you could think that CM had not interest in creating a stable OS or a really stable CM and they are only trying to make it seem like they would still work on that. (Changes like the design template file or adjusting readmes).
Nevertheless there are still many bugs and some elementary features are missing! That can’t be. The worst is, that CM doesn’t get things straight for the community. I can understand if the creators don’t want to have any pressure because many people are asking for appointments but at least they should get the things straight concerning if and how long CM11 should be supported! ESPECIALLY if CM bet on that with their Oneplus One!
I have started to work on this on November the 22nd 2014 and reported about 40 bugs and maybe needed but simply to integrate features in the CM Bugtracker JIRA. I commit that I have never done this before. I do have enough other things to do and I always thought the creators would take care of that or anyone else would report the problem. But apparently this won’t happen. In order to prohibit a fiasco like CM10.2, should we all take care of it NOW!
I will post a list of bugs and eventually some useful and first of all realisable features in the course of this theme. Some of them I already have reported –but the most of them have been closed again. One of them was a appeal to CM and it said that they should get CM11 ready and stable – this Bug of course has been closed immediately and without actual statement.
I want to ask you to vote for all these things. If you have bugs yourself and never have been reported such please make an account on JIRA, it is easy and doesn’t take much time. Even if it’s just in order to vote for my bugs and features later. It would be nice to spread this and the text in JIRA, in other Android / CM-Forums and in social networks in order to have a real group or better sent a link or the post itself to some devs of cyanogenmod so that they are knowing about the problem and can take action on this.
Please don’t see this as agitation or something like that. I have great respect to the creators and their achievements! But CM now is a company and they geared to their (potential) customers. Without us making noise CM will concentrate on CM12 and we all have (again), a half-finished “gerfrickel”-Sytem. Also think that all the improvements in CM will get back to the Custom Roms.
Willingly you can send me your bugs, ideas or suggestions per PM here but better post it here or write it down to the JIRA bugtrakcer. The more, the better!
For so many Smartphones the CM11 is the last thing which they will be seeing more or less stable without an unbelievable reduced battery power. If we don’t do something now, the game will be replayed with CM12. And don’t hope that it will be different there. A really STABLE Custom Rom – that is missing somehow. That’s at least what I think and if read in the forums now, there are many others who think the same…
I hope on active cooperation, feedbacks and opinions on that and ask for not deleting this thread but eventually moving it to the right place (maybe a seperate section about android in general?) and make it sticky for all people to see. I hope we can find some way here to CM changing his mind about working on their custom rom and supporting CM11 for some time until it's a really stable product (maybe until first or second “stable” M-release of CM12 is out). If you want a stable CM11, please write it down here!:good::victory:
BTW: I am from Germany, sorry for my maybe bad English.
Chris

Stability depends on device. CM11 is superbly stable on a Nexus 4 or 5, but could be extremely buggy on some random cheap Chinese phone bought from aliexpress because lots of people use and develop for Nexuses, but only a handful of people will be working on that Chinese one. There are also often hardware issues.

Thanks for your reply, i totally agree with you but if you have rightly read my topic you can read that I dont write about device specific features. If I can reproduce a handfull bugs everytime, on every CM11 rom, than that are real bugs on which CM should take care. I will also show some here but I need time to tanslate it here and to write it.
I also totally agree if a device have no maintainer it cant be tested and made fully working - but the problem most of the time is that there are A LOT of people who make their own kernels, own custom roms on base of CM11 and they COULD be maintainer of the device but dont want it or cant do it because of CM itself. If you look how CM is treating the people and not comunicate with them you will understand why there is a lack of maintainer and so many people which COULD be a maintainer because of the knowledge. But that is a other topic. CM need to change his way to talk with the community. If there are bugs, which are easy to reproduce and they will be reported to bugtracker and CM is closing it because the log is not attached, because the reporter CANT BRINGT IT, BUT the bug can be EASILY reproduced WITHOUT A LOG, than it is CMs fault. People want to help and they (CM) close the bugreports. It should be in their interest to test every bugreport to MAYBE find a potential bug. Also look at the bugtracker, there are issues which were reported for years and CM dont care about it. Look for the lack of using the calendar without a google account for example. On the other hand side: They add features which nobody wanted to have and mostly the people dont use. where is ther sense here?

Personally, I quit using any cm or cm based ROMs on my nexus because it seemed to lack speed and stability compared to stock or aosp based ROMs.
I had better luck with early custom lollipop ROMs than with cm. Right now I'm using slimkat until black themed lollipop ROMs are stable and bug free.
So basically, I agree that cm should be more stable. But I don't really care cause there are lots of good options out there instead of cm.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

Ow mannnnn .. Thank you so much !!! you are pro !!!

Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is.
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.

zelendel said:
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is. .
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Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
zelendel said:
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
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Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
zelendel said:
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
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if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
zelendel said:
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
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How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
zelendel said:
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
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Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
zelendel said:
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
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I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
zelendel said:
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
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I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris

XXchrisXX said:
Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
Think its so easy then try it your self. You seem to think anything about this is easy. Until you try to do it yourself you have no room to talk about it being easy.
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
You have the right to blame them if you want but then they also have the right not to care. There are many bugs that I have had on AOSP for years. They have not been fixed and I cant fix them so guess what, I dont complain.
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
A nice and good human? Really?!?! What world do you live in. Alot of the best Devs here are antisocial people. They dont like other people let alone people cant follow simple instructions.
Look People did it themselves. CM used to be active in the community but then people kept doing just what you have stated. Not posting proper bug reports with logs that are needed. (if the dev says post a log with the bug report, this is not an option). The one plus one is a the joke of the Dev world. Most devs already sold theirs and will not go back.
How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
Yes it is. As long as people follow the proper bug reporting steps. Yeah and if you report some bugs to many devs without the proper logs they will ignore you as well. Many devs are moving over to the bug tracker just like CM and will require the same logs. This is troubleshooting 101. If you cant even get a log then you should rethink using custom roms.
Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
Ill be honest and this is the thought with alot of Devs. Most normal users SHOULD stay on stock. Saying Samsung is stable is too funny. Most Devs have left those devices all together as well. Once again you dont post the proper and requested logs with the bug reprot expect to be ignored. As for freedom of speech Refer to the link below. Your on a private site. The right doenst apply.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. And that is with proper bug reports and logs.
I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
If the device is not supported then they shouldnt be posting a report at all. Do you have any idea how long it would take to "test" each bug report? The log is much faster and more useful. To many people are installing stupid stuff like xposed that randomly causes code crashs. This is where the logs will show this. If it is bug free on their devices then they can call it bug free. In the end it is all how it runs on their devices.
I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
If they are basing their rom off of CM then they accept it. People did it themselves. As already stated. You really must be new to this.
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
To be honest alot of people couldnt careless about CM. Any real team uses aosp as a base and not CM. This is due to CM changing the base AOSP code to fit what they think android should be. To me it sounds like you have a device that was dropped by the team and are now mad about it.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again CM has not posted here in years. AOSP will never be completely stable. Deal with it. and a news flash the oneplusone 2 will not have CM. They have already signed a contract exclusive in some places with another company.
Now to end this. Here is a link. Have a good read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441

Ok so I've read the cluster that is your post @XXchrisXX and I have to say a few things
First off, I'm probably the last person you would ever see saying anything remotely nice about CM but what's right is right....
1. There is no moral commitment or obligation or ANYTHING that CM (the open source side of things) has to follow. You are getting a FREE product. In exchange your feedback may or may not be useful to the developers and device maintainers. You signed no contract. You didn't agree to anything with CyanogenMod or any of it's developers or maintainers. XDA-Developers is and always has been a AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK type of site.
As stated above, you can stick with the stock ROM from the OEM if you want stability and some kind of warranty.
2. There are two different sides of CM. There is the open source side which is what you're griping about and then there's the company, CM Inc.
One is run by volunteers and hundreds of contributors (Open Source side) and the other one is run by employees who are under contract (CM Inc). Don't confuse the two and think that you can hold the open source side to the same things you hold the company to.
Do many employees from CM Inc. contribute to the Open Source side? Yes, but that is a hobby. You want a warranty and someone to yell at for not fixing bugs? Go buy a One Plus One and get you a warranty, simple as that!
3. Who are you to tell them (the Open Source side of CM) what they can and can't do? You should be lucky that your device is even supported by CM or any AOSP based custom ROM.
You talk about Samsung and other OEMs but what you fail to realize is that most OEMs give you a one and done. They give you kitkat and that's it.........they TOO move on to bigger and better things.
Don't be foolish here and think that your device that's 3 years old is going to run KitKat like a champ. You say you "understand" about open source drivers but yet continue to argue your pointless cluster because you think that CM (the open source side) should behave like the company.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! If you did, you would of never made this post and thank your lucky stars that your device even got on CM's radar for support.
Again, I know CM inc has done some messed up things in the past and are arguably run by a circus but what I hate more then them is ungrateful people like yourself.
Stop while you're ahead @XXchrisXX

What... the... fk...
Seriously... It's obvious you've violated XDA's "search before posting" rules.
Now, you've given enough information that you're obviously a haxxinos4 user. (You mention N7000 so probably a 4210, but I sort of recall seeing something indicating you might have a 4412 device...)
The only devices that actually have received benefits from Cyngn corporate are their "Cyanogen OS" devices. Oppo N1 and OnePlus One. Those are the two devices where Cyngn corporate staff have NDAs signed with the OEM and Qualcomm (and other suppliers) to fully support every piece of hardware within the device. Now, if your complaint is about those devices (which Cyngn HAS ****ed up too), you have a right to complain. But to be honest, you'll find little sympathy here since the Cyngn corporate guys and XDA don't really get along.
If you're a Haxxinos4 user, and actually PAID ATTENTION, you'd know that Samsung has continually bent the community over and ****ed them time and time again. (Especially in 2012, with the Superbrick fiasco and their broken promises at BABBQ 2012). You'd also know that basically everyone that USED to be a Haxxinos4 maintainer either retired from Android development or left CM after the Focal relicensing disaster. (And even after moving to Omni, Haxxinos4 is pretty much dead to most of us...)
So Mazda is right... While he (nor I) have any love for Cyngn (Kondick has blocked me on G+ for calling him out on various things back during the Focal relicensing fiasco - and I used to be the CM maintainer for multiple Haxxinos4 devices and the Oppo Find5)... Your post just reeks of "typical ungrateful user who can't even search to find the basic backstory of their device"...
Funny thing: Oppo N1 was Cyngn's first official device. Its predecessor, the Find 5, was entirely maintained by people who left CM to found Omni after the Focal relicensing fiasco. All of those people were former Haxxinos4 maintainers who were sick and tired of Samsung's bull**** already.

@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.

mazwoz said:
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
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Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.

mazwoz said:
They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
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Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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Saint Isaiah said:
Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
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Yes and no, they did all of this before the OnePlus. The first CM phone was the Oppo N1, that contact came about a few months after this went down. Omni ROM was founded because of this.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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Click to collapse
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.

Entropy512 said:
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
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Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451752

To the OP @XXchrisXX or is it @Noteguy? I am so confused. One of you has 1 post, the other one of you has 4 (all of them in here). Would the real OP PLEASE STAND UP????
That being said, it's quite obvious that you have nothing to offer this community except for whinging - and if you were the only one doing that on XDA then I would say the community should take note and listen to what you have to say. BUT - seeing as you're just another whiny user I think we can all, CM included, just ignore you.

I can't say anything more than what @Entropy512 and @Mazda has already said. You must be very young, because you seriously remind me of my kids sometimes. Get stuff for free, but still complain because its not 100% to your liking. Not sure about Germany, but here we call that ungrateful. Long ago I was not satisfied with the lack of development for my aging device, instead of calling out developers that work, have a family and spend what little free time they have giving me free stuff, I learned to develop myself as to not bother them. Its not plug and play. Most do this for themselves and share. Ranting will only cause them not to share. If you want to kill support for your device faster than the hurdles that are already present with trying to piece together the little bits of open source code we can use, then your on the right track. If you want continued support then sometimes a simple Thank you works wonders. Nobody is making a living off of this (open source side at least). Donations are nice, but I know first hand that both @Mazda and I have on certain occasions returned donations to users. We don't do it because of the money, we do it because its fun. Don't take the fun out of it is all I'm saying. Be grateful that you aren't stuck on OE jellybean or less software. You owe/need the development community more than the developers do, the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

On "Original" Code

Hi, I submitted this complaint on originality through the XDA suggestions, however I'd like some community clarification too.
Hi, I recently started a hobby project here on XDA, which quite unabashedly forked a bunch of repos and picked a lot of commits, then worked to get it working for my device (Z5).
In all this I neither rebased nor changed the ownership.
While I did this I noticed a *LOT* of copied work which was simply rebranded and *NOT* forked.
I further was informed by the people I had forked that I was not supposed to fork their work although said work appeared to be a fork from another repo (though it wasn't actually forked, the file names matched)
I'm confused. Honestly.
Of features, it is known that there are very few original feature developers and they're great people.
The same features make their way across multiple roms, each with their own *cosmetic* changes (or sometimes by just rewriting the same thing). Each Rom then has an aggressive user and dev base to complain about people "copying" and not letting them get credit.
Is it really such a big deal?
I feel like it's probably less effort now to simply go the same route as many roms.
Upload a token "new" source on github by not forking repos but pushing local clones.
Is this what XDA endorses as original work?
If something is forked, isn't that a sign of respect? I feel appalled that, what honestly takes longer, after-all fixes are usually local and it's simple enough to do a hub create and push.
I took the effort of going, forking, cloning and re-doing my changes simply out of respect only to be told that my work is not original as I have "superficially" forked.
I know developers can't be everywhere. They can't develop for everyone.
This attitude of intolerance when the Roms are for DIFFERENT devices which they would NEVER support seems really sad.
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Some developers are really excellent about this sort of stuff, I'd like to think that they're the ones who believe in their own work and don't see the need to attack others. (The CarbonRom devs are excellent, so are the SonyAosp and LineageOS guys)
The issues crop up from the other "original" roms. Basically patchwork quilts of commits, code and ideas *without* recognition for the REAL devs.
I'd also like to clarify that I have nothing against Rule 12
Rule 12 also allows for no selective sharing, and considering that for most commits you're not the original author I really don't get it.
It's not like I simply pulled a device tree and built it for my device; then removed all references and tried to make money off it.
I had to adapt it and there are commits you have not added yet from other repos too. They're donations not paywalls.
Please clarify the matter.
Additionally I only posted the rom here in the first place because I remember how bad it felt to be kept away from all the nicer new features just because no-one takes the time out to build for your device.
I can't see why a donation link is offensive. I ensured something which I did not originally develop or claim to develop available to users of another device... with credits to the original authors!
I just don't see where this is coming from.
A lot of work around is also from MapleAOSP as I see it.... along with DU, UBERROMS, Pure-Nexus, AOSP dev sources etc.

Personally speaking - I am not offended, because it takes wit and effort to integrate everything and get it working, and IMHO every dev in the world stands on giants' shoulders, taking advantage from the work of others, and all efforts deserve some kind of reward, be it fame, praise, recognition, ... - or money. The donors decide the way they show their appreciation...
That having said, I mostly decide to support devs by buying their Pro apps that unlock some extra features. But I also donate money at times.. Because i feel it's only fair - I can't do development, I learned a different profession that I'm well paid for. Why not share a little in appreciation for the devs' work that I take advantage off?
Just my 2¢