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Hi all!
I'm an android developer, and I regularly read the official android-dev and android-porting lists, but on all the fan blogs and from lurking here, it seems that all the good development is coming from XDA-dev!
So why don't you guys do some patch submission? Features like auto-rotating browser and the transition animations should really, really be in the main source, but the official Android team have their thumbs up their asses in regards to UI/polished stuff.. (I bet they're too busy working on the lower level cellular stuff and the ARM-generating stuff like in the *flinger libraries).
So you guys should make some patch submissions over at (http://source.android.com/submit-patches)!
That way, the next RC will have all of these lovely features you guys have implemented.
((Or, alternately (but more ambitiously), fork the entire codebase. Strip out the DRM and add a framework for native code execution. Perhaps that's a pipe dream, though..))
Thoughts?
I think forking the Android source would be a very nice touch, if Google doesn't pull it together. We could still add on to stuff from the official code, but add on all the special stuff that Google refuses to (they've said they won't add the ability to change CPU speed, etc).
Oh, absolutely, there would be numerous advantages to having a fork. It should definitely be discussed! I'm afraid that Google may be trying to exert too much control on their platform in ways that we don't always want, so there is nothing legally to stop us from forking and maintain a more badass tree. GitHub could provide the hosting.
Of course, it might be a waste of effort. If you submit the badass patches, then the good features here go out into all the phones in the next versions. Work on the fork, and only the selected users who are able to flash their own phones can use it, unless some Chinese companies start using it or something like that.
Names?
XanDroid? I'd rather like to see Mandroid with in a slick black theme..
Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)
Seanambers said:
Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)
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Do you think that the release of the new unlocked Dev phones will change things?
Yeah it'll most probably shake things up a bit, however what about all those that already have a g1?
I for sure isnt buying a new phone to get root.
But even so, we're still talking about modifications to the OS and the packaged applications, which would be released in the next RC version, so even non-root users would get the features in the next update, along with anyone running Android on something besides a G1.
my .02
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...
bhang said:
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...
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Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .
I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.
Gary13579 said:
Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .
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Given the number of G1s with modified fw installed compared to the total number of sold units, I somehow doubt the number of users is going to plummet.
IMHO it would be a needless fork unless some new or considerably modified features were planned. Better to just patch the functionality into the official builds, if at all possible.
I'm not convinced by that logic. There would be an important difference between a fork and patched versions of the firmware, as a fork would have a totally different design philosophy. Whereas Android is focused on speed (or whatever the hell they're concentrating on..but to be honest, I think they're dicking about over there), Mandroid could have more focus on polished features and low-level access. ((And! No DRM, and I'd like to see some more security features..ZRTP?))
Either way, I think it's really important for the success of the open future of phones that the open source community take and give back. There's no need for the back-and-forth like with, say, PSP-cracking as we have the source code and we are allowed to do whatever we like with it. If we just keep patching what they give us and keeping the modifications closed, then we aren't really in control.
As for project management, I'm absolutely sure there are people who are capable of maintaining an active open-source project such as this, as long as there is a well-thought out design philosophy. I'd love to be involved, if enough people are willing to give it a shot. But, first, it'd be easier just to submit patches.
Miserlou! said:
PSP-cracking
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PSP cracking is insanely different. If you were in that scene, does my name look familiar ? Was net admin at toc2rta/malloc, admin of psp-hacks.com, worked with a lot of people on a lot of stuff that I barely remember as it was years ago .
But for the PSP, we were working with a system we knew nothing about. So yes, Android would be a lot simpler to work with. But if Google doesn't listen to us, it's not like it would really matter.
neoobs said:
I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.
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Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.
2 words
The community(did I spell that right?)
Bhang
Datruesurfer said:
Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.
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I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?
neoobs said:
I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?
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That's what project leads are for. And hypothetically when enough people are dissatisfied with the xda-dev fork they will go and create their own fork. Except I don't think there is any real argument yet to go and create an xda-dev fork in the first place. Forking an operating system meaningfully is not a weekend project for a single person.
I have said it before, let's give them a bit more of a chance, a fork isn't something a guy can do in a weekend.
So let's see what happens in RC3X, the next release will give folks a bbetter idea of where their heads are at. If enough of the community is unhappy there will be a fork
Bhang
The current state..
The last few days have been difficult. What has become clear now is that the Android Open Source Project is a framework. It’s licensed in such a way so that anyone can take it, modify it to their needs, and redistribute it as they please. Android belongs to everyone. This also means that big companies likes Google, HTC, Motorola, and whomever else can add their own pieces to it and share these pieces under whatever license they choose.
I’ve made lots of changes myself to the AOSP code, and added in code from lots of others. Building a better Droid, right?
The issue that’s raised is the redistribution of Google’s proprietary applications like Maps, GTalk, Market, and YouTube. These are not part of the open source project and are only part of “Google Experience” devices. They are Google’s intellectual property and I intend to respect that. I will no longer be distributing these applications as part of CyanogenMod. But it’s OK. None of the go-fast stuff that I do involves any of this stuff anyway. We need these applications though, because we all rely so heavily on their functionality. I’d love for Google to hand over the keys to the kingdom and let us all have it for free, but that’s not going to happen. And who can blame them?
There are lots of things we can do as end-users and modders, though, without violating anyones rights. Most importantly, we are entitled to back up our software. Since I don’t work with any of these closed source applications directly, what I intend to do is simply ship the next version of CyanogenMod as a “bare bones” ROM. You’ll be able to make calls, MMS, take photos, etc. In order to get our beloved Google sync and applications back, you’ll need to make a backup first. I’m working on an application that will do this for you.
The idea is that you’ll be able to Google-ify your CyanogenMod installation, with the applications and files that shipped on YOUR device already. Or, you can just use the basic ROM if you want. It will be perfectly functional if you don’t use the Google parts. I will include an alternative app store (SlideMe, or AndAppStore, not decided yet) with the basic ROM so that you can get your applications in case you don’t have a Google Experience device.
I’ll have more updates soon as I get all the code hammered out.
Thanks for all the support thru all of this.
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/the-current-state
The stuff Dreams are really made of....
I knew! Where there's a will there's a way! You can't keep a real boss down! Cyanogen I look forward to playing with this new stuff in the works. Rage on brother rage on, I for one honestly didn't want to leave android really, but I will continue to research back-up plans in case Google has anymore monkey wrenches laying around itching to be thrown...Good luck Cyanogen. We all owe you donations...real recognizes real! Dueces
This is great news Thank you!
fkn awesome!
this exactly what i thought and hoped would happen. everyone got in a tizy over nothing. so we have to back up before we flash which is just another way that the basic moder like myself can better understand the phone.
Does this means we need to wipe every time we flash a new rom?
tomvleeuwen said:
What do you guys think of sharing the 4.0.4 version over p2p networks?
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Everyone already has it.
Great
This sounds good, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think they got upset when the new market app was released before they could get it out. They had to do something, but I think it will die down.
don't go there
tomvleeuwen said:
What do you guys think of sharing the 4.0.4 version over p2p networks?
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Cyanogen is doing his best to respect Google's legitimate copyrights, so suggesting that XDA get involved in distributing proprietary applications without a license only serves to undermine what is going on here. Mods: please remove.
ei8htohms said:
Cyanogen is doing his best to respect Google's legitimate copyrights, so suggesting that XDA get involved in distributing proprietary applications without a license only serves to undermine what is going on here. Mods: please remove.
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I posted this in another thread but it would seem to be pertinent to here too:
Loccy said:
Let's face it, strictly speaking, all ROMs are warez.
Personally I'm surprised that it wasn't the Hero devs who got into trouble first, but this was all just a matter of time. I never understood the bizarre fixation that cropped up recently with QuickOffice and everyone going "omfg it's warez can't include it in romz!!!111!1one!". Why QuickOffice and not, say HTC_IME, or Work Email, or any number of other binary blobs that ROM cookers include as a matter of course now that have been "acquired" from non-orthodox source?
The Hero ROMs, let's face it, give people a means of "turning" their old phone into the latest and greatest HTC device. Each stable Hero ROM on the Dream/Magic potentially means a Hero device purchase lost. HTC are being far more hit in the pocket than Google are here - which is why I'm surprised the cease and desist wasn't directed at them.
I do think, however, this site and the people who run it are going to have to pick a side at some point. Either the position is "this is a site for developers, and as long as copyrighted material is not hosted on here in a fashion that would make us liable*, we will not suppress the work of individual devs". Or, their position is "no copyrighted material in any form, be that in the form to links to offsite storage repositories (eg. Rapidshare), or any other method". XDA doesn't *need* to do this in order to ensure the site does not get into legal hot water. I suspect they *might* do it, however, as some kind of misguided moral stance (and in my view the QuickOffice preoccupation was an example of just this). But in my opinion if they choose the latter then XDA is over as a site for realistic Android ROM development (and indeed, Windows Mobile and other OSes, if they apply the same standards across all their boards).
* elaborating on what I mean here - if people attach zips directly to their posts, and those zips are stored on the XDA servers, then XDA as a site is potentially liable. Alternatively, if instead people give a URL or a search string whereby people can find a ROM, but those files are not physically stored on XDA, they are not - any more than Google is liable for the many copyrighted MP3s you can find links to via their search engine.
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The bottom line is that if ROM devs decided they were going to respect ALL legitimate copyrights, there'd be no Hero ROMs, no Windows Mobile ROMs, in fact no ROMs apart from barebones AOSP ROMs which do less than a stock ROM.
ei8htohms said:
Mods: please remove.
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And I'm sorry, that's just ignorant. Just because you don't agree with a sentiment doesn't entitle you to demand the mods remove it. If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.
kudos to cyanogen!
Loccy said:
If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.
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I think common U.S. practice is: if you speak freely, you get called names by people until you either cry or shoot them, thus proving to everyone that your original point is invalid.
But XDA has always had a policy of "if it doesn't get the site admins in trouble, it's probably ok." If memory serves, the site is in the Netherlands, and is subject to EU laws as to copyright, etc. I think that's important to remember when it comes to such things, since the EU laws as to intellectual property are in flux and not quite the same as those in the US or UK.
But the official policy is available in one of the toplevel forums here:
Flar said:
Hi Everybody,
We noticed that there is some confusion when it comes to posting sensitive material on xda-developers.com and mostly about what can and can't be posted.
We would like to clarify our point of view through this post.
Since the start of xda-developers this has always been a site that once in while has some sensitive material online, through the years this site has grown so big it's no longer possible to check every file on our servers or every post on the board, we also feel it wouldn't benefit the community if we did.
However with increased popularity comes an increased amount of legal complaints when sensitive material is found on our servers. Which is the reason why we have been more careful lately. Recently some sensitive material has shown up on the servers and we received legal complaints from companies who have the copyrights for this material, although we all feel this is very interesting and valuable material we cannot risk the future of xda-developers by ignoring the legal requests we receive, therefore this material has been taken offline.
We understand that maintaining the balance between legal and illegal is sometimes confusing and/or difficult but that is unfortunately how it works.
When it comes to posting sensitive material there are a couple suggestions we can make:
- if possible do not post the files on the xda-developers servers.
- use your common sense (if you feel something might not be legal it probably isn't).
- always keep in mind when posting software of any kind, that we will take it offline if there is a legal complaint from the copyright owner.
Warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery.
I hope this post will serve as a clear and valuable guideline.
Greetz,
Flar
Site admin.
P.s. When you have any questions you can always contact me or one of the moderators.
Last edited by Flar; 17th January 2007 at 10:14 AM..
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Everyone has an opinion, and they have, or should have, the right to decide for themselves what is correct. I am on the side of Cyanogen. I do not think what he did caused any harm or loss of revenue to anyone. We can not always have our way though, and I think that's the case here. I don't know him, but I do think he's smart enough to keep doing what he is EXTREMELY good at without putting himself in a bad position. It's just a stumbling block to get past. We are puting a lot of effort into pointing fingers and throwing around ideas, but if we placed this much energy into finding a fuctional solution, we might get past it a whole buch faster. A good army fights the war, not the battle.
Warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery.
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But every single ROM on here is warez to some extent or another! Certainly (just for example, I'm not picking on anyone specific here) Drizzy doesn't own the IPR for the contents of his Hero ROMs. I'm pretty sure the WinMo ROMs aren't being posted by Microsoft. If the policy is that "warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery", they're not doing much of a job, are they - every other post is "warez", if you take a strict interpretation.
I suppose I'm saying that "warez is in the eye of the beholder". I fully endorse the attitude "if it doesn't get the site admins in trouble, it's probably ok" - but I can't help thinking that relaxed attitude has been firmed up of late for whatever reason, given the QuickOffice oddness. I'm pretty sure no-one who own the IPR for QuickOffice was ever in touch (although do correct me if I'm wrong), so why the odd fixation recently?
Bottom line: stick to the attitudes and approaches that have made this site what it is, please don't start getting over zealous when there's no reason to.
Honestly did this need another topic though? I mean I'm all for good news like this, but add it on to one of the many topics that are out there. -.- (ready for flaming)
easy now
Loccy said:
The bottom line is that if ROM devs decided they were going to respect ALL legitimate copyrights, there'd be no Hero ROMs, no Windows Mobile ROMs, in fact no ROMs apart from barebones AOSP ROMs which do less than a stock ROM.
And I'm sorry, that's just ignorant. Just because you don't agree with a sentiment doesn't entitle you to demand the mods remove it. If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.
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First off, I'm not demanding anything. I politely requested that the mods remove a suggestion that clearly seeks to circumvent the policies of XDA: We won't distribute warez. The poster knew the suggestion was specifically aimed at getting around the XDA policy, otherwise there would be no reason for a P2P distribution alternative in the first place.
A key component of intellectual property and copyright laws (at least in the US) is that the holder of the copyright must act to defend the copyright to some reasonable extent (no, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what this entails exactly). Now that Google has acted to defend their copyrights in these instances, the line is clear. Google apps are paid apps (licensed to the handset manufacturers or service providers) and are not free to distribute without a license. Consequently, there shouldn't be much further debate about the fact that these are warez and are not to be distributed on or through XDA.
I'm not trying to attack anyone (the original poster, ROM devs or certainly yourself), but I am interested in XDA maintaining the high ground here and continuing to operate in a respectful and respectable manner.
Perhaps we should stay on topic?
te5ter said:
Perhaps we should stay on topic?
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Fair point. Maybe we should take the "warez is in the eye of the beholder" debate to this thread. I do actually think it's a fascinating debate, personally. Oh, incidentally, just re-read my earlier post, and want to apologise to ei8htohms - I didn't mean to come off quite so brusque.
First, I'm very happy that there seems to be a workaround that Cyanogen feels comfortable in using.
However, I see it as a band-aid to a much larger problem. Yes, it addresses those few apps that Google specifically mentioned. But there seems to be potential future conflicts that could adversely affect this whole Android community.
What about all the other apps in there? The Camera/Camcorder/Gallery app for instance. The UI? Other HTC bits? And the biggie, the Search component? Does Google also lay claim to unified search, the widget, the particular framework involved in that?
I don't know the answer to that, I'm just asking. So much is left unanswered, I just feel this is only the beginning. For now, I guess it may be enough. But it still leaves so much up in the air.
Now the 2nd major issue: Cyanogen should be commended for taking the high road here and doing his best to adhere to Google's current request. I think we all know that there was never ever any question that no one saw this coming. It came from left field and shocked everyone beyond belief.
But will other rom devs be as diligent as Cyanogen? Will theme developers adhere to this? And with all of these added steps required to get a functioning "Google Experience", consider the flood of newbie questions this forum is about to endure. We all thought "brick" and "hardspl" questions were tedious at best ... prepare yourselves for the onslought of mass confusion. That fun has just begun.
I still believe the burden lies with Google to make this right. I'm not saying they should make their apps open source by any means. I'm just saying that there must be a way for Google to allow the inclusion of their apps (perhaps a different license or maybe some encryption trick that protects the apps from modification <I don't know, I'm not that smart>). Google needs to step up to the plate in this. They also need to save-face and stifle this PR nightmare. Android does not need this, Google does not need this, HTC does not need this, carriers do not need this, Cyanogen does not need this, and users do not need this. Growth of the entire Android project is simply too important. I see this as speed bump. They just made the bump too big and it needs to be shaved down some so everyone can get it over without damaging anything else.
this is great news indeed. can't wait to see what is to come!
@Moderators
I would like to talk sit down and talk via gtalk or something to a board of mods to handle this once and for all
This whole thing is ridiculous as I said I was updating the OP and changelog later that night and NEVER claimed it was ALL 100% mine.
I Pmed a couple mods but have gotten no response. I am sure they are busy I just want to get this rollin.
thank you
kingklick said:
@Moderators
I would like to talk sit down and talk via gtalk or something to a board of mods to handle this once and for all
This whole thing is ridiculous as I said I was updating the OP and changelog later that night and NEVER claimed it was ALL 100% mine.
I Pmed a couple mods but have gotten no response. I am sure they are busy I just want to get this rollin.
thank you
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omg he surfaced someone spray him with the hose.
Thats big of you King. I agree nothing good comes out of arguments, and childish actions. Its best to just discuss it, and hopefully move on. And most importantly get this community back to a happy one!
ionic7 said:
omg he surfaced someone spray him with the hose.
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Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
protomanez said:
Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
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I think you'll find I stole nothing, nor money........ I was donted far less then a nexus is worth and I did what I said I'd do - buy a nexus for development
The one dispute that I understand is this latest one with my froyo - that I totally understand the confusion.
the main thing is I said I needed to update my op and i was running out for the night..
I never claimed that to be 100% me......... EVER
I dont do this for the money....................Its no where near worth the 20 bucks a month
cheers
I just really want to get this straightned out
protomanez said:
Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
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I am not a fan boy for either side as well, just do not have respect for his side of the issue he was laughing about it on twitter, i hardly think he has any care of what he did.
ionic7 said:
I am not a fan boy for either side as well, just do not have respect for his side of the issue he was laughing about it on twitter, i hardly think he has any care of what he did.
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Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
I say let Bigons be Bigons... (or how ever you spell it ) I got nothing with King,,
I say, if you have a problem with anyone last thing you do Is flame them in a thread,, take it to PM's, Although people maybe right to flame, nobody is going to respect you if you do, you just make yourself look like an ass (No offence to anyone)
"No one cares about who pissed you off, But how you dealt with the situation..."
And flaming people isn't going to help resolve anything
So yeah haha That's my $0.02 needed or not
protomanez said:
Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
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It is not a matter of pride it is a matter of arrogance and his overly high pedestal he has erected and placed himself upon.
crunkcory said:
And most importantly get this Community back to a happy one!
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In my Oppinion that´s the Fact. We are an OPENSOURCE-Community, which should get the best out of our Devices, regardless if you cook up a ROM using this and that...
Were not at the Kindergarden!
Opensource is, and should always be, free to use for everybody in every Way.
Ugh. Really? Why is there drama in the development thread. We are all so irritated by the newbies that create new threads in this subforum just to ask a question, but I think it's worse to do that, when you have been here long enough to know better, just to argue about pointless drama. Maybe King copied and pasted an entire ROM, maybe not. Whatever. We should fight about it amongst ourselves... not all over a section designated for getting work done.
This whole argument about him taking money is ridiculous.
Stop being so damn jealous.
*NOTE* I'm not saying this is all about the money, i'm just saying this for the people that bring it up.
protomanez said:
Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
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yes and no
See here is where my problem with the issue I am being accused for
* it is being made seem like I just renamed someones rom and released it...
I released a froyo ROM that did have alot of someones work yes, but its not like I claimed it as mine...EVER
thats the issue.
I made a handful of IMPORTANT changes and also said I was implementing all my usual changes the NEXT day....
If you look at my post it doesnt even look like any of my other ROMs....I WAS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO UPDATE THE VERBAGE LATER THAT NIGHT.
i just want this to be over with already, its 95% a misunderstanding
carnegie0107 said:
Ugh. Really? Why is there drama in the development thread. We are all so irritated by the newbies that create new threads in this subforum just to ask a question, but I think it's worse to do that, when you have been here long enough to know better, just to argue about pointless drama. Maybe King copied and pasted an entire ROM, maybe not. Whatever. We should fight about it amongst ourselves... not all over a section designated for getting work done.
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+1
Totaly agree with you, this isnt the place for all this nonsense.
Made it right before the lock.
@KiNgKLicK92 - Shut the hell up. =P
G1BRICKED said:
Made it right before the lock.
@KiNgKLicK92 - Shut the hell up. =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really he is apologizing and trying to fix the situation and you guys want to chew him up and spit him out. Wow!!! King has done a lot for the Android Community. And I will be willing to sit down in a Gtalk or whatever to get down to the bottom of this so this community can get back to the way it was. I have been around a while and have seen what this community can do, just like anything there are good times and there are bad times. You get over the bad times so you can start having good times again.
Everybody just needs to Build A Bridge And Get Over It!!!!!
Just in case anybody needed a reminder:
Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is available in source code form for which the source code and certain other rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the software. Open source licenses often meet the requirements of the Open Source Definition. Some open source software is available within the public domain. Open source software is very often developed in a public, collaborative manner. Open-source software is the most prominent example of open-source development and often compared to (technically defined) user-generated content or (legally defined) open content movements. The term open-source software originated as part of a marketing campaign for free software. A report by Standish Group states that adoption of open-source software models has resulted in savings of about $60 billion per year to consumers.
But I do agree give credit where credit is do. Ok that is all I am going to say on this. King I am willing to sit in and hear your side of the story.
Royalknight6190 said:
Really he is apologizing and trying to fix the situation and you guys want to chew him up and spit him out. Wow!!! King has done a lot for the Android Community. And I will be willing to sit down in a Gtalk or whatever to get down to the bottom of this so this community can get back to the way it was. I have been around a while and have seen what this community can do, just like anything there are good times and there are bad times. You get over the bad times so you can start having good times again.
Everybody just needs to Build A Bridge And Get Over It!!!!!
Just in case anybody needed a reminder:
Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is available in source code form for which the source code and certain other rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the software. Open source licenses often meet the requirements of the Open Source Definition. Some open source software is available within the public domain. Open source software is very often developed in a public, collaborative manner. Open-source software is the most prominent example of open-source development and often compared to (technically defined) user-generated content or (legally defined) open content movements. The term open-source software originated as part of a marketing campaign for free software. A report by Standish Group states that adoption of open-source software models has resulted in savings of about $60 billion per year to consumers.
But I do agree give credit where credit is do. Ok that is all I am going to say on this. King I am willing to sit in and hear your side of the story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its great to see someone understands my point of view and why I feel ok sharing work with many.
I would appreciate the opportunity and would love to sit down with you and other mods to get this settled via gtalk or anything
ALSO - Id like to explain the whole credit where credit is due - there IS an explanation
cheers !
Who gives a ****?
Some people make roms, others use roms. It's all open source. Quit getting your panties in a bunch. There is nothing imature about an argument, however arguing with people on the internet...get over it. To everyone, everyone sounds like some ****** 10 year old.
Grow up, and stop posting in this thread like anyone gives a ****. Now go ahead, call me a ****, child, loser, idiot, moron, nin-come-poop, whatever helps you get over the fact this is a useless thread, and you're all wasting your time here. Don't even bother to respond to me, I won't read it. Just stop bringing up stupid drama. This isn't high school....
Long live Android.
This whole battle has been played out before....eg Haykuro....king has learned what others before him have also. Just has writers value giving credit where written words are concerned, so too do developers value the credited code. People, perhaps rightly so, are very sensitive to this phenomenon. Just be very careful and double cite if you have to...
Peace be amongst us...
kingklick said:
I dont do this for the money....................Its no where near worth the 20 bucks a month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get it, hes not holding a shotgun to your heads and saying give me money. It is your choice to "donate" to King or any other person you one to. None of his post say pay up or else. There shouldnt be so much drama with grown or close to grown men, especially on the internet. One thing I don't like are those cyber bullies with nothing better to do.Also King isn't stealing cause you cant steal whats free
Im starting to think some are a bit jealous of the money he got....just saying
http://ashleyesqueda.com/private/HdniCFAkDv
What pisses me off as mentioned is the fact that you have to install a software update WITH the skin intact and updated as well. I don't like how this delays the time the update takes to get pushed, I don't like how this oftentimes turns me off from using the damn skin, and I most definitely don't like the fact that I have to install it to get perks. It's a trap!! The whole update BS is what drove me (and many others) to root their Legends in the first place. This is absolute crap!
And yeah, I'm against a locked bootloader as with everybody here on XDA. It's not just the custom skins being reverted to plain stock or similar, it's the extra "feel-good" things you can do with it unlocked.
Thoughts on the rant?
Google's in it to make money? What a shock(!)
They're a company, not a charity.
Google is also about spreading it's monoply.
And they're better at it than At%t
Yeah Google is in it for money all company's are, money makes the world go around nowadays so that's what they do. As far as the ads part, that's how they make their money that's how they always have, but you don't see ads floating around when you use your phone just in apps that you download form the marketplace. However, the OS is open, like any other Linux base, allowing people to customize it and thus making Google sit back and see what devs can do with it and integrating what the devs are bringing to the table and seeing what people like (free user studys). Its genius on their part especially to push it to the masses that don't know what they're doing and have no idea what it even means when you say "root." I've always enjoyed Linux and its openness so I will continue to support Android.
Agree with rant.
Yeah, it's the nerds that want this, but the normals don't consider the why.
And the why is these devices are not phones.
They are tiny computers.
And it's pretty terrible that I can change the OS on my other, not-so-tiny computer whenever I want to, but I'm stuck with whatever the manufacturer of a given device forces upon me?
I'm not even sure I like the fact that my smartphone is limited to Android only.
I envision a day sometime in the future where smartphones are treated as tiny computers by everyone--including the manufacturers. Where you can buy barebones smartphones from the manufacturers without a preinstalled OS and pick your poison!
Of course Apple would never play ball with this--they don't even do so on their not-so-tiny computers--but wouldn't it be sweet to pick up the latest HTC superphone and then think to yourself...
... do I want Android, MeeGo, Windows Phone... or whatever other mobile OSes might exist at the time?
That's true openness now, but smartphones are in their infancy, and too many people still think of them as just very fancy phones.
Google's true purpose is to take over the world!
The main purpose of ANY company, is to MAKE MONEY, so the top-level execs can enjoy a huge cushy corner office, drive a company Mercedes S-class, own a Bentley for personal use, host extravagant parties on their yacht, visit France on weekends in the private jet, live in a house so big there are rooms they've never set foot in, and still have enough to pay for private security, butler, maid, and nanny for the rugrats. Accomplishing this goal for Google includes ads, and for manufacturers, includes customization for product differentiation and locked bootloaders to reduce losses from warranty/support claims.
In a way, it's the lax rules of "open" Android which has allowed manufacters to customize however they see fit.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the fact that this woman is interested enough in technology to even bother ranting about Google, Android, and secured bootloaders, is a total turn on?
All companies give something away then, start changing the game, the problem with All phone companies is soon we will have devices that will allow us to load whatever we want, (we do that with dual boot now) this will become the standard, probably take 3-5 years before it is mainstream. But, like everyone else said Google just wants to make money. and have secure market position.....
..... duh.....
google is a company ..... where the strangeness?
GnatGoSplat said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the fact that this woman is interested enough in technology to even bother ranting about Google, Android, and secured bootloaders, is a total turn on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... hey, not everyone here is a guy, you know!
... and yet I still agree!
Moral of the story- Companies like money to further themselves.
Step666 said:
Google's in it to make money? What a shock(!)
They're a company, not a charity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree.Google is a company,not a charity.
LOL GOogle wasnt made so people can happily search away
It was made with the purpose of making money... who would spend thousands of dollars doing otherwise.
PS. "Google is a company, not a charity" <---Egg-sactly.
I completely disagree with the whole "stock skin is awesome!" thing. I personally dislike the stock Android theme, and it was one of the reasons I disliked CM7 to begin with, until I found Honeybread.
The stock Galaxy S theme is my favorite theme I've seen so far.
I agree with synaesthetic's vision. Would be amazing if we could dual boot operating systems on any smartphone too.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
sales are UP
Google also gives all your personal data (contacts included, and all their data) to it's subsidiaries. thus bypassing Google's own privacy policies, and this is perfectly legal.
they then make a big tree showing your surfing habits, your friends and families. what u eat and drink and what movies you watch, what news you are interested in your political affiliation !
the more info they have on you the more you are worth to them.
both for their own adds and the more you are worth when they sell your info through their subsidiaries!
like i said this is all perfectly legal. because it's subsidiaries do not have the same privacy policies as the parent company! in this case Google!
why do u think they want to get into the internet service providing business (ISP)? More INFO!
now they have u using their OS, their web-browser, their app store, their email, google maps (to see where u go and what u eat) even down to what streets u use and how long u spend at each place!
the amount of info they have on u is mind blowing
why do u think they are trying to pass a bill in congress on how (and how much) these companies collect info on you!
it will never pass. but it shows you even members of congress are concerned about the points i made above!
so I'm not just talking out of my behind OR a conspiracy nut. it cant even be a conspiracy if it wanted to because the info i right out in the open for anyone who cares enough to look for it,
the companies even Google are not trying to hide anything
food for thought next time u turn on your Google
Ric H. (a1yet)
.
synaesthetic said:
... hey, not everyone here is a guy, you know!
... and yet I still agree!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...there are girls here...!
QUOTE of the day is
deeking2 said:
...there are girls here...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QUOTE of the day is
...there are girls here...!
LOL
Nothing illegal is happening here. They're an American business. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
synaesthetic said:
smartphones are in their infancy, and too many people still think of them as just very fancy phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true...so very true.
JL
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community