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Droid X actually self-destructs if you try to mod it

Well, I might have recommended a Droid X for big-phone-lovin’ fandroids out there… but now that I’ve read about Motorola’s insane eFuse tampering-countermeasure system, I’m going to have to give this one a big fat DON’T BUY on principle. I won’t restate all my reasons for supporting the modding, hacking, jailbreaking, and so on of your legally-owned products here — if you’re interested in a user’s manifesto, read this — but suffice it to say that deliberately bricking a phone if the user fiddles with it does not fall under the “reasonable” category of precautions taken by manufacturers.
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Read more
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Not trying to stop the hate train here but read this:
(This was the response they gave to Engadget.)
"Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV "
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It will still be hard to crack, but the phone will not be rendered useless by those evil people at Motorola

I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us? By Motorola's own words, they suggest going with another manufacturer if you want to do modding, flashing, etc. So now I should spend my money and time engaging in the very fight we laugh at iPhone users over?
No. I love my MotoDroid, but given the B.S. coming out of Motorola's camp, my original Droid will be my last Motorola phone.
Screw you Moto, fall back into the irrelevance that *WE* saved you from.

And they say its to stop users running the wrong code? So? Surley any that are sent back should be diagnosable to Motorola that they have been hit with unofficial code and just sent back to the user as "broken by user".
I don't understand the argument they give .....

I also am going to be boycotting Motorola for this flagrant act of defiance towards its customer base. This does not just fall on Motorolas shoulders. We all know this has a hidden stench of Verizon behind it. No, we can not prove it. But old dogs play old tricks. So, to any company that thinks they can control its consumer base with this crap you will not win this.
This is the kind of stuff that the government likes to see. It gives them a study point on how many people will actually lie down and die on such a small matter. Because, if you can't fight aginst the small stuff. Then the government will know that it will most likely get away with the bigger things. This may seem like a streach to some. But if you look at the correlation between government and business entities. That also government also is. They try to play the same tricks. Fact of the matter is. The government works for us. We vote for them and then pay them to do that job and we let them know we want something and if they do not deliver we vote them out. Well, corporations are a little like this. We vote with our wallets and the forums. And this whole thing that the Droid X sold out the first day. Well that is actually speculation. They may have sold out of the 45 phones sent to each Verizon store. Yet some still have them. This is nothing more than a ploy to discourage those of us who fight. Again it may be me making a streach on this. And maybe not. But look at it as a moral builder to the Modding and hacking community. It was built it was programed. It all can and will be reversed. We purchase food. A restaurant has no right to tell us how to eat it. It belongs to us. Same with consumer electronics. And Open source software. Actually even with closed source software also. If we want to mode it then we may do so. We give money for it. If these company's actually made something that worked to its full potential then we would have nothing to complain about. If they want to short us then we have the right to extend the ussage of our stuff. As long as it does not harm another human being. Have at it people.
Shamma Lamma Do From My Moto DROID To You.

goldenu said:
I think a much better question is: SHOULD it be cracked? Should our community spend money on a phone specifically designed to screw with us?
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Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.

Breakthecycle2 said:
Yes it should, out of mere principle at this point.
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You'll just encourage them. Just boycot. Job done.
lol - sorry just noticed, you own one so of course, you want it cracked heheheh

No i-moto droid for me, Oh well makes my toss up between Galaxy S and Desire all the easier.

Interesting - Security issue on most Androids (2.3.3 and under)

Just read this.. figured I'd share. Looks like it's getting fixed.. Nothing more to see.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/18/technology/android_security/index.htm?hpt=T2

nice hope they roll out the fix for our damned phones as well.

Good thing we have .4 available to use

It's really a non-issue. Basically someone with a packet sniffer can see some information as it's synced with Google. Big deal. They can do that with any OS its just most OS's don't sync that information to the cloud.
Big deal. All they have to do is encrypt the data on the phone before it sends it out. 2.3.4 already corrects the issue.

player911 said:
Big deal. All they have to do is encrypt the data on the phone before it sends it out. 2.3.4 already corrects the issue.
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Not a big deal for current Android phones (and their users) that won't be receiving that 2.3.4 update?..

S0NiX0928 said:
Not a big deal for current Android phones (and their users) that won't be receiving that 2.3.4 update?..
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Its called marketing..... They "scare" people into buying the newest of the new.... damn communists
Let alone its coming from cnn... What a creditable non biast truthful news site
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

nate420 said:
Its called marketing..... They "scare" people into buying the newest of the new.... damn communists
Let alone its coming from cnn... What a creditable non biast truthful news site
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
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Well, for my own sake I really couldn't care less... If the evils of the world want your privacy they could get it whether you liked it or not. I choose to think my life really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things lol. However, I will say I should've checked the sources because as with CNN, and all the other corporate lapdog news outlets, they aren't worth your time in a quest for real, truly important news. Typically all the mainstream outlets generate is shock and awe material, or seek it if you will. They either hype the fearful & devastation or ignore the stuff that would otherwise get them sued by true the criminals to humanity: corporations. We are in a whistle-blower-beware sorta society right now... You either are going to get killed or defamed for speaking out these days...
Wow, ending the rant there, sorry.

Kinda surprised at the attitude regarding the crappy google software. I guess some do not care if their personal info is stolen and used in nefarious ways.
This is Google we are talking about. Not exactly a fine upstanding corporate citizen. They have been stealing info for years. They helped China round up protesters before the Olympics. They will do or say anything to make a buck.
The fact that their software is so buggy and compromising is hardly surprising. People just need to be aware of the type of company they are and be prepared to have anything on their phone stolen and used against them.
It is what it is. I have accepted who they are and I am carefull about what I use my phone for.
Android smartphones face data breach threat
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/905bb4d6-813e-11e0-9360-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1Mo0FZQyv
Owners of Android smartphones are being warned to avoid public WiFi networks after researchers found a security flaw that could affect the vast majority of devices based on Google’s software.
A trio of researchers at Ulm University in Germany found that it was “quite easy” for hackers to intercept data from Google’s photo-sharing, calendar and contacts applications, as well as potentially other Google services such as Gmail, using a flaw that affects 99 per cent of all Android devices.
The attack works when unsecured wireless access points that imitate public WiFi hot spots that the phone has accessed before – such as a coffee shop chain – capture an authentication token.
That token can then be used by attackers to access and modify personal data in Picasa, Google’s photo site, Calendar and Contacts. Business customers using Google apps on Android are not affected by the weakness because all traffic is encrypted by default.
“The implications of this vulnerability reach from disclosure to loss of personal information for the Calendar data,” said the Ulm researchers in a posting on their website.
“Beyond the mere stealing of such information, an adversary could perform subtle changes without the user noticing. For example, an adversary could change the stored e-mail address of the victim’s boss or business partners hoping to receive sensitive or confidential material pertaining to their business.”
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jcbofkc said:
Kinda surprised at the attitude regarding the crappy google software. I guess some do not care if their personal info is stolen and used in nefarious ways.
This is Google we are talking about. Not exactly a fine upstanding corporate citizen. They have been stealing info for years. They helped China round up protesters before the Olympics. They will do or say anything to make a buck.
The fact that their software is so buggy and compromising is hardly surprising. People just need to be aware of the type of company they are and be prepared to have anything on their phone stolen and used against them.
It is what it is. I have accepted who they are and I am carefull about what I use my phone for.
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I agree. It may not be a big deal to the typical user who is txting his girlfriend and emailing his mom.. but a subjective view of this doesn't make it a minor thing all of a sudden.
I have watched google grow ever since the dot com days. I've been an avid user of their products. There has been an obvious directional move by google for those that pay close attention.. They have gone from user/community focused.. and now they have intermixed that with a focus of business .. no different than any other company pleasing the shareholders..
For anyone to think for one minute that google is a friend that can be trusted with your private data, you better get your head out of the sand and take a harder look. They are a business trying to make money. They are not a friend who is trying to serve you and look out for your best interest. They may make it appear so. They may say so.. in order for us to think so.. But I guarantee you that in the midst of a board meeting, the last thing uttered out of their mouth is anything about servicing you and looking out for your best interest. Sure, they may make it appear like that.. .but the reason why they make it appear like that? So they don't lose you as a customer and they can gain customers. Yes, they must make a good product that pleases a certain group of society. But what is the root? To be your friend and buddy?They must maintain good customer service or you will not use their service or leave. <-- The root of that mentality = $$$$$$$.
I played the game of business for many years during the dot com days. I sat in many meetings. Yes, that's how it works. "Let's do x, y, and z.. to increase our bottom line, bring upon more customers, etc.. Then we can explain it to the employees and the customers in x, y, and z manner as to why it is good for them." <-- That's business. What we see is not the "root" of their behavior. Deception at its finest.

microsoft is flexing some muscle to cripple the competition!

We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.

Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!

Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.

They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.

They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.

z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.

Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.

z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.

I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.

GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.

z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.

GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.

z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.

A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.

I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."

Microsoft vs. Google

MS says Google's Motorola division violates its patents. Looks like MS is angry they didn't get to corner Google in that Nortel deal and is doing an Apple.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...la-s-android-phones-infringe-its-patents.html

MartyLK said:
MS says Google's Motorola division
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That sale went through quick.

I'm sick of lawsuits...

We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?

TheMavic said:
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
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old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.

z33dev33l said:
old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
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Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!

slapshot30 said:
Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
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Pwnage of epic proportions!

Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.

z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
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Lol your fanboism is actually comical. Carry on, I like to laugh.

z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and turn it into something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
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Fixed it for accuracy
The stupid thing is, MS could have been market leader 5 years ago if they only took their mobile operations seriously. They never have and I doubt they ever will. They just needed a decent interface, a deal with a book wholesaler to supply their reader, a deal with a music reseller and an app store so they could have bought handango. To bad instead they chose to take a giant leap backwards.

In all fairness, when Microsoft actually recovers from that 2‰, Android will already be in a new generation. Motorola is but a fraction of the massive companies that are backing Android and they all are contributing constantly to better innovations for the OS.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

I think MS have to stock up there device pallet , the devices are cheap ( thats why i bought them ) but today a mobile phone became a status sign( Iphone ), so MS have too make there devices ,,cool,, , means they have too send some phons for free to ABC VIPS ( Iphone ) and the the problem is solved . But i hope the price will stay cheap as in the moment ^^ but with a market who google has to defend android phones get maybe cheaper too , cool for android and wp users ^^. Before the Iphone everybody look where i get the most features for the best price but today sm changed and i dont know what ^^ some answers plz

Software patents are the biggest load of **** I've seen in a long time. If you learn how to write, for example, a search algorithm in college and then use it in a commercial app, too bad if the guy sitting next to you in class has been granted the patent for it. Doubly bad if you invented it and weren't smart enough to get to the patent office before them.
Seriously Apple own patents for such inane **** as "method for interacting with a portable device via touchscreen" and "power management of portable devices". So watch out if you produce a touchscreen phone with power management. If you put any code in there which acts similar to Apples they will sue you sooner or later.
It's about as stupid as allowing Ford to take out a patent on having four wheels on a car.
I'm also pretty sure the Judges who hear these cases know so much about programming they can make informed judgements of these cases ... not. It's all about which legal team can spin the must bull**** to befuddle the courts.
Sent from my Cyanogenmod hungry Htc Sensation.

z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's boring, bleak, and has no apps.
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I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)

slapshot30 said:
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
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28 percent of iPhone users have still not added even a wallpaper to their phones, over 90 percent of android users are still running the stock rom and im sure if the study was done you'd find that a large portion of them haven't done much more than add some icons to the homescreen and perhaps toss up a wallpaper. People as a whole by android because they're the free phones you get at most carriers. Your choices are either a feature phone, blackberry, or one of the 30 android devices they have up (or perhaps the one or 2 wp7 devices that they have there but most in-store carriers are still running those at 99 with a 2 year contract.) iPhones are a status symbol. I'll never understand how a phone who's only redeeming quality is pixel density and a junk filled app market (how many tap the trigger to fire a gun games do you need?) got that way but hey, apple is good at marketing. Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around. They hit the nail on the head, unfortunately my toothbrush is more intelligent than the average consumer so well continue to see blind, stupid purchases until Microsoft either gets a marketing team that's not largely run by chimps or they saturate the hell out of the market like android has.

I'll agree about the average consumer in the USA being an idiot. It's clear that not many actually research a product before buying (especially like a phone that will be used every single day for around two years). Beats and Apple are perfect examples. But I just don't see MS ever catching up. Look at all the brands that make Android phones and how many varieties are out there. You're right, so that is why Android sells more because of vast selection. The selection on Android phones will continue to grow. The iPhone's popularity will inevitably grow. I just don't see any room for MS in the mobile market... Especially with the lack of marketing put forth as oppose to Apple and Android. Hell, maybe someone will see a commercial with the WP7 tiles and say "Hey, that looks cool, I want to check it out". But that won't happen, because they never see those commercials. I agree with what someone said before, MS just doesn't seem to put enough effort forth, just like before with Windows Mobile.

z33dev33l said:
Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around.
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Wish they had.
There were some adverts for WP7 over here but they didn't last long, they may have been pulled by the ASA due to the false claims they made or due to lack of interest.
MS have even resorted to using the US version of their "We turned your front room into a W7 shop" rather than the short lived UK version.
The I'm a PC campaign (not the "and Windows 7 was my idea" ones) was really good, it didn't derride other computer systems like the awful mac/pc ones, so their marketting team can get things right, they just need a decent product to work with though and WP7 just isn't inspiring. Of all the smartphone users I know only 2 have WP7 devices. Over here handsets are often free, even the iphone so price doesn't really come into it.

z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
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They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble

Microsoft will be an irrelevant company over the course of the next 10 years.

Steve.X10 said:
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
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I'm sorry, you just defended android with the argument that people "pay for convenience." that alone is comical.
And that's exactly what google did...

Extremely disappointed with the android community

I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .

Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.

Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.

Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..

The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA

I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow

I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.

jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.

chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?

Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.

Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L

Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.

Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app

rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)

That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.

jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.

Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.

awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!

I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium