We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.
z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.
z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.
A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.
I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."
Related
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
"All Things D is reporting that the two patents in question are 5,946,647 and 6,343,263, the former of which is said to be "fundamental to Android."
Any ideas?
orkillakilla said:
but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't the Xoom some half-finished product, both software and hardware-wise?
Other than that, I fully agree with your post - Apple is afraid. Very afraid. They're not the only ones though, Microsoft is as well. That's why they're both resorting to patent litigation. While at the same time Apple is totally copying Android's notification dropdown. Hypocrisy at it's best.
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
MartyLK said:
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, we're talking out of fear, it's totally not about calling companies out on their crap. Sure. LOL
Totally agree bother! Didn't Microsoft get in trouble for forcing there software into pcs? Someone got paid off for win this last one with HTC. I think its totally against our rights to hold back technology for the gain of one. Plus the iphone is old school. Its time to move on to better pastures Mr jobs! Remember how technology was for apple before the iphone came out or the ipod? Apple sucked the big one! I think there running scared cause android is its competition! to bad,we the people have a right to choose!
droid charge
orkillakilla said:
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
jags_the1 said:
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm... another pointless post. Lost count on the number now...
If you don't want to add to the discussion, or don't like the fact that there are many of these threads, simply don't read it.
Has far as the Xoom goes, I've only read good things about it, and that it's at least on the same level as the iPad. I haven't played around on one though, so I can't say for sure.
It seems Microsoft and Apple, being the "old dogs" in the computer/tech/smartphone world, have their tails between their legs, acting like a chihuahua showing it's teeth at a pit bull...
orkillakilla said:
something about dogs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
Tone_ said:
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
I have read some about the Oracle case, but I haven't really read all about it yet. I'll definitely give that a look.
Also, I would like to thank you for making a productive post that isn't negative, and that actually adds to this discussion.
Well it's not really a surprise here. Every software dev does this kind of thing. They ask patents on certain elements that they know would slow down or make another product less appealing.
Otherwise spending thousands of dollars on patents would be kinda pointless.
And like MS did and does it sues those that so called took there patent without asking or paying. I don't see anything new here. Sure it's again the big companies Apple vs Android but heck those are the 2 biggest players for home usage.
The point of all these lawsuits is:
Try and get money from competition even banning devices
Showcase all features you have but others can't get
Advertise
And for the other company sympathy. Besides ads even if they are bad are always good for sales
And a good lawyer stretches it till it either expires or till they invent something better.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC bought S3 recently and Apple has been found infringing on S3 patents. This stupid game works both ways. So there may not be a one-way settlement, but instead a cross-licensing deal.
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
Also, it begins, the backlash because of this software patent stupidity: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/15/app-developers-withdraw-us-patents <- It's app developers for now, but I'm really, really waiting for the day when hardware makers simply pull out of the US market. Let the US companies sue each other into oblivion, while the saner parts of the world flourish in actually moving things forward.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC bought out the rest of S3 and apple infringed them so who knows, would most likely be other Android manufactures that cop it..
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/4/apple-found-guilty-s3-patent-infringement/
Gusar321 said:
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
Tone_ said:
They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
orkillakilla said:
That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but I would say wanting rather than getting at the time they were expensive, still are in comparison. All Android sales are not sales lost to Apple as I alluded to earlier.
Apple are probably more bothered about all the taglines the iworshipers love to hear that they can no longer use..
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
Sent from my I500 using XDA Premium App
Jmatch said:
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
Sent from my I500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember going to the Apple store when the iPhone came out to try it. I couldn't type with my sausage thumbs. So I was banned to sliders and flippers until the newer 4.3 Android phones. And now Apple winning against HTC... WTF. Go to hell Apple. I'd rather reactivate my VX8300 than buy a iTurd.
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
MartyLK said:
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Apple opened the doors to the modern smartphone, but if it wasn't them, someone else would have.
As for Apple as a company, the ONLY thing they did right was the iPhone/pod/pad. Their computers were crappy as hell (WERE). They have done better with computers recently, though not for the price in my opinion. I don't necessarily hate apple, I just think most if their products are way too expensive for my taste (mainly their computers).
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
MS says Google's Motorola division violates its patents. Looks like MS is angry they didn't get to corner Google in that Nortel deal and is doing an Apple.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...la-s-android-phones-infringe-its-patents.html
MartyLK said:
MS says Google's Motorola division
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sale went through quick.
I'm sick of lawsuits...
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
TheMavic said:
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
z33dev33l said:
old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
slapshot30 said:
Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pwnage of epic proportions!
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol your fanboism is actually comical. Carry on, I like to laugh.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and turn it into something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed it for accuracy
The stupid thing is, MS could have been market leader 5 years ago if they only took their mobile operations seriously. They never have and I doubt they ever will. They just needed a decent interface, a deal with a book wholesaler to supply their reader, a deal with a music reseller and an app store so they could have bought handango. To bad instead they chose to take a giant leap backwards.
In all fairness, when Microsoft actually recovers from that 2‰, Android will already be in a new generation. Motorola is but a fraction of the massive companies that are backing Android and they all are contributing constantly to better innovations for the OS.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
I think MS have to stock up there device pallet , the devices are cheap ( thats why i bought them ) but today a mobile phone became a status sign( Iphone ), so MS have too make there devices ,,cool,, , means they have too send some phons for free to ABC VIPS ( Iphone ) and the the problem is solved . But i hope the price will stay cheap as in the moment ^^ but with a market who google has to defend android phones get maybe cheaper too , cool for android and wp users ^^. Before the Iphone everybody look where i get the most features for the best price but today sm changed and i dont know what ^^ some answers plz
Software patents are the biggest load of **** I've seen in a long time. If you learn how to write, for example, a search algorithm in college and then use it in a commercial app, too bad if the guy sitting next to you in class has been granted the patent for it. Doubly bad if you invented it and weren't smart enough to get to the patent office before them.
Seriously Apple own patents for such inane **** as "method for interacting with a portable device via touchscreen" and "power management of portable devices". So watch out if you produce a touchscreen phone with power management. If you put any code in there which acts similar to Apples they will sue you sooner or later.
It's about as stupid as allowing Ford to take out a patent on having four wheels on a car.
I'm also pretty sure the Judges who hear these cases know so much about programming they can make informed judgements of these cases ... not. It's all about which legal team can spin the must bull**** to befuddle the courts.
Sent from my Cyanogenmod hungry Htc Sensation.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's boring, bleak, and has no apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
slapshot30 said:
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
28 percent of iPhone users have still not added even a wallpaper to their phones, over 90 percent of android users are still running the stock rom and im sure if the study was done you'd find that a large portion of them haven't done much more than add some icons to the homescreen and perhaps toss up a wallpaper. People as a whole by android because they're the free phones you get at most carriers. Your choices are either a feature phone, blackberry, or one of the 30 android devices they have up (or perhaps the one or 2 wp7 devices that they have there but most in-store carriers are still running those at 99 with a 2 year contract.) iPhones are a status symbol. I'll never understand how a phone who's only redeeming quality is pixel density and a junk filled app market (how many tap the trigger to fire a gun games do you need?) got that way but hey, apple is good at marketing. Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around. They hit the nail on the head, unfortunately my toothbrush is more intelligent than the average consumer so well continue to see blind, stupid purchases until Microsoft either gets a marketing team that's not largely run by chimps or they saturate the hell out of the market like android has.
I'll agree about the average consumer in the USA being an idiot. It's clear that not many actually research a product before buying (especially like a phone that will be used every single day for around two years). Beats and Apple are perfect examples. But I just don't see MS ever catching up. Look at all the brands that make Android phones and how many varieties are out there. You're right, so that is why Android sells more because of vast selection. The selection on Android phones will continue to grow. The iPhone's popularity will inevitably grow. I just don't see any room for MS in the mobile market... Especially with the lack of marketing put forth as oppose to Apple and Android. Hell, maybe someone will see a commercial with the WP7 tiles and say "Hey, that looks cool, I want to check it out". But that won't happen, because they never see those commercials. I agree with what someone said before, MS just doesn't seem to put enough effort forth, just like before with Windows Mobile.
z33dev33l said:
Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish they had.
There were some adverts for WP7 over here but they didn't last long, they may have been pulled by the ASA due to the false claims they made or due to lack of interest.
MS have even resorted to using the US version of their "We turned your front room into a W7 shop" rather than the short lived UK version.
The I'm a PC campaign (not the "and Windows 7 was my idea" ones) was really good, it didn't derride other computer systems like the awful mac/pc ones, so their marketting team can get things right, they just need a decent product to work with though and WP7 just isn't inspiring. Of all the smartphone users I know only 2 have WP7 devices. Over here handsets are often free, even the iphone so price doesn't really come into it.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
Microsoft will be an irrelevant company over the course of the next 10 years.
Steve.X10 said:
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, you just defended android with the argument that people "pay for convenience." that alone is comical.
And that's exactly what google did...
Samsung and Microsoft settle Android licensing dispute
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
just because Android sales are waaaaaaay better than their windows phones
Samsung, htc, and Motorola have to pay back royalty fees to Microsoft for selling non Microsoft products?
what a load of crap
not much better than Apple playing a similar card with all those product bans
simply lame
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in
What all has been happening these days!
Weird things!!!
AllGamer said:
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not begging. Extorting. I mean, is it even about some specific patents? Because at least publicly, it totally looks like MS is doing this: "Nice phone you got there... would be a shame if something, you know, happened to it..."
that too
basically it almost as if they (HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Viewsonic, Acer) are not paying Microsoft, they are not able to sell Android phones.... WTH is that?
Android is open source, Google is not charging for it, yet Microsoft is extorting the manufactures for using Android instead of Windows????
if they produce also Windows phone they only pay $10 per phone, if they don't produce any window phone, then it goes up to $15 per phone!
it's like WTF is going on?!?!?!
AllGamer said:
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could also look at it the other way - actually the way Samsung, HTC, and the legal system in several different developed countries sees it:
"Google couldn't compete with innovation - so they go steal something from Apple, something from MS, and make Android... bRRRRRRRRiliant."
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another useful post from the ultimate android troll...hates android so much and yet can't stay out of any thread that mentions it!
Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.
z33dev33l said:
Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, if you're "just correcting" other people, then I will correct you.
You're talking as if those patents are about some great innovations. But that is complete BS. Those patents are about generic totally obvious things, like "method to update the address book". And I'm not kidding with that, "method to update the address book" is one of the patents in the Microsoft vs. Motorola dispute.
Yeah, updating the address book is serious, serious innovation and Google is totally being the big bad non-innovator by daring to create an OS where you can update the address book. I mean, how dare they!!
z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
This way ford should have been more capital worthy then Exxon since they where first to build cars.
Even Einstein,built upon others idea and refined it.
God ppl need to be more broad minded.
Op just asked why is Microsoft seeking money from an OS which is not even related to them, and you throw random bull of your innovative crap
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
jags_the1 said:
Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it. If I can't sow some jeans - I go and pay CK to do it. If I can't make an OS by myself - you guessed it - I pay someone else who did it.
Property is property. Period.
Exactly. But now with Samsung and HTC paying royalties to MS based off Android, it would seem like this is the case going forward. That's pretty much every major OEM accounted for(except LG since Moto is now Google's). Having custom hardware and UI's did nothing to prevent the courts from agreeing to licensing fees. Android is not free in absolute terms anymore
krale said:
Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But even if not you personally, a lot of people *will* make hamburgers. And will McD go collecting royalties from them? Of course not, that'd be beyond ridiculous.
krale said:
Property is property. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Property is property. But then there's also this other thing called "intellectual property". I personally cringe at that, because it's a total misnomer, but oh well.
krale said:
Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.
Its legal extortion. Tell me why M$ isn't going after "GOOGLE "?
Its the same tactics they use to force OEMs to license Windows for PCs.
M$ sucks at innovation and sales especially in the consumer sector.
I believe the reason they can't go after google is because they don't charge money for android. the manufacturers though, charge US through the sales of phones.
google gives android for free
samsung, htc, etc sells us android phones
Microsoft can say these manufacturers are taking my ideas and selling it and can't say the same thing to google
**** . And the arguement ensues......
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
..........
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, I see a thread where Microsoft is made to look like the bad guy for not letting themselves be walked all over and I defend them. It's not a matter of fanboyism or what OS I favor. It's just what's right.
First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.
Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.
This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true, so true
z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.
this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL
i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.
Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.
AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.
according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows
Steve Jobs HATED Android. Right?
In recent weeks, Larry Page has come forward claiming that Steve Jobs' personal hatred towards Android was just a show. It wasn't personal, claimed Page, but was instead meant to prove to shareholder that the two companies were serious rivals. Page claims he maintained a cordial relationship with Jobs up until his death.
However, according to Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson, the late CEO of Apple really did hate Android's guts on a deep and personal level...no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Speaking last night at the Royal Institution in the UK, Isaacson provided context for Steve Jobs's Android-rage. He said that Jobs had been upset ever since Bill Gates adopted Apple's graphical user interface for Windows, then liscencing the OS to Dell, IBM and other manufacturers. And he felt like the rise of Android was a repeat of this unfair cycle of companies copying Apple's design and passing it off as if it were their own.
Jobs thought Apple devices were "almost copied verbatim by Android," Isaacson explained to the crowd. "And then they licence it around promiscuously. And then Android starts surpassing Apple in market share, and this totally infuriated him," the author added. "It wasn't a matter of money. [Jobs] said: 'You can't pay me off, I'm here to destroy you.'"
Of course, we all know where all of this hatred ended up: endless patent litigations between Apple and various Android manufacturers. Who knows if Page truly had a "cordial" relationship with Jobs, but I'm guessing not. Jobs really believed that Android had ripped him off, and seems to have completely ignored Android OS's major differences AND the fact that Apple later copied many of Android's best features.
Apple and Google have always been rivals to each other.
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
I Am Marino said:
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never even respected him much .......... if you'd been privy to some of the internal industry scuttle butt about his manner and behaviour with employees and 3rd party partners you'd maybe feel the same way.
It was an efficient corporate manager ....... much like ebola is an efficient infection.
But mos of that efficiency was completely based on being beyond ruthless and having no regard at all for the effects his actions had on other individuals, as long as it furthered his goals.
Thats exactly why Apple gave him the boot back in the old days ..... its all documented.
Interesting little read, thank you.
I've always been intrigued about market spin on these so-called rivals, and the behind the scenes truth.
I just wonder where the anti-trust lawsuits are when Apple goes around trying to sue competitors out of existence while already having a pretty high market share in the smartphone sector.
Luckily there is an anti-trust suit going on right now about Apple fixing prices on e-books. Apparently the 50+ % markup on the iPad wasn't enough for them. I don't see how in this day and age Apple users still think Apple is morally better than Microsoft when they are really just as bad.
In technical and marketing fields, Steve was a genius.
In life, he wasn't so much lovable man.
playerpro said:
but still.. its because of Steve Jobs only i guess Android was evolved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not even remotely ....... your buying into the commonly purported 'one man tech company' myth ....... anyone with a clue, who knows how a tech company actually works, knows that's utter garbage.
But is a very useful marketing/PR hook to hang the hat of a so called charismatic CEO on.
He was an efficient manager ....... with a good sense for grandiose phrasing.
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
rafa6571 said:
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, grow up,
now please stop this google-apple hate-fest. What was going between Page-jobs, i think they better knew than us.
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
siravarice said:
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. Its funny how apple is suing Google because they infringed on some copyrights but what about the fact that apple stole the notification pulldown. Its really kind of silly that they filed a lawsuit against Google because the froyo AOSP sliding tab lockscreen was similar to the iPhone slide to unlock lockscreen.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
He was just an angry guy, sad but true and most guys with brilliant minds who have massive ideas usually have abnormal side effects.
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
I Am Marino said:
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they're doing the exact opposite. they're like dumb kids in the sandbox throwing pebbles at each other. ice cream sandwich would have re-defined what andoid is in peoples minds, but sony/htc/samsung/etc wouldn't allow it.
It would be amazing if Android OEMs would work together and actually improve Android greatly. Sadly, they work separately and try to be better than the other OEM. This competition is good, but I think it would be better if they just worked similarly. As for Jobbs hating Android, very much expected. Just like him and Windows ;P
rdubyah said:
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
porkchopexpress said:
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
I have plenty of friend who have Macbooks, and they all have windows installed so they can do a lot of things, it's quite funny.
Regarding the OEM's fighting each other, they won't ever all come together to challenge Apple, especially if they can customise android to hell and back. Personally I feel if they couldn't customise it as much, the handsets would be customised more and we would actually see better, faster handsets.
siravarice said:
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people are pleased as punch with their iPhones it seems, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps the iPhone isn't the best suited phone for YOU, but that doesn't mean its not the best suited phone for someone else.