First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.
Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.
This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
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Click to collapse
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
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Click to collapse
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true, so true
z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.
this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL
i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.
Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.
AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.
according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
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Click to collapse
Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows
Related
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.
z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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Click to collapse
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.
z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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Click to collapse
That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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Click to collapse
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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Click to collapse
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.
A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.
I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
"All Things D is reporting that the two patents in question are 5,946,647 and 6,343,263, the former of which is said to be "fundamental to Android."
Any ideas?
orkillakilla said:
but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it
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Click to collapse
Isn't the Xoom some half-finished product, both software and hardware-wise?
Other than that, I fully agree with your post - Apple is afraid. Very afraid. They're not the only ones though, Microsoft is as well. That's why they're both resorting to patent litigation. While at the same time Apple is totally copying Android's notification dropdown. Hypocrisy at it's best.
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
MartyLK said:
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, we're talking out of fear, it's totally not about calling companies out on their crap. Sure. LOL
Totally agree bother! Didn't Microsoft get in trouble for forcing there software into pcs? Someone got paid off for win this last one with HTC. I think its totally against our rights to hold back technology for the gain of one. Plus the iphone is old school. Its time to move on to better pastures Mr jobs! Remember how technology was for apple before the iphone came out or the ipod? Apple sucked the big one! I think there running scared cause android is its competition! to bad,we the people have a right to choose!
droid charge
orkillakilla said:
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
jags_the1 said:
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
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Click to collapse
Hmm... another pointless post. Lost count on the number now...
If you don't want to add to the discussion, or don't like the fact that there are many of these threads, simply don't read it.
Has far as the Xoom goes, I've only read good things about it, and that it's at least on the same level as the iPad. I haven't played around on one though, so I can't say for sure.
It seems Microsoft and Apple, being the "old dogs" in the computer/tech/smartphone world, have their tails between their legs, acting like a chihuahua showing it's teeth at a pit bull...
orkillakilla said:
something about dogs
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Click to collapse
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
Tone_ said:
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
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As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
I have read some about the Oracle case, but I haven't really read all about it yet. I'll definitely give that a look.
Also, I would like to thank you for making a productive post that isn't negative, and that actually adds to this discussion.
Well it's not really a surprise here. Every software dev does this kind of thing. They ask patents on certain elements that they know would slow down or make another product less appealing.
Otherwise spending thousands of dollars on patents would be kinda pointless.
And like MS did and does it sues those that so called took there patent without asking or paying. I don't see anything new here. Sure it's again the big companies Apple vs Android but heck those are the 2 biggest players for home usage.
The point of all these lawsuits is:
Try and get money from competition even banning devices
Showcase all features you have but others can't get
Advertise
And for the other company sympathy. Besides ads even if they are bad are always good for sales
And a good lawyer stretches it till it either expires or till they invent something better.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought S3 recently and Apple has been found infringing on S3 patents. This stupid game works both ways. So there may not be a one-way settlement, but instead a cross-licensing deal.
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
Also, it begins, the backlash because of this software patent stupidity: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/15/app-developers-withdraw-us-patents <- It's app developers for now, but I'm really, really waiting for the day when hardware makers simply pull out of the US market. Let the US companies sue each other into oblivion, while the saner parts of the world flourish in actually moving things forward.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought out the rest of S3 and apple infringed them so who knows, would most likely be other Android manufactures that cop it..
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/4/apple-found-guilty-s3-patent-infringement/
Gusar321 said:
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
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They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
Tone_ said:
They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
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That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
orkillakilla said:
That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
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True but I would say wanting rather than getting at the time they were expensive, still are in comparison. All Android sales are not sales lost to Apple as I alluded to earlier.
Apple are probably more bothered about all the taglines the iworshipers love to hear that they can no longer use..
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
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Jmatch said:
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
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I remember going to the Apple store when the iPhone came out to try it. I couldn't type with my sausage thumbs. So I was banned to sliders and flippers until the newer 4.3 Android phones. And now Apple winning against HTC... WTF. Go to hell Apple. I'd rather reactivate my VX8300 than buy a iTurd.
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
MartyLK said:
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
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Yes, Apple opened the doors to the modern smartphone, but if it wasn't them, someone else would have.
As for Apple as a company, the ONLY thing they did right was the iPhone/pod/pad. Their computers were crappy as hell (WERE). They have done better with computers recently, though not for the price in my opinion. I don't necessarily hate apple, I just think most if their products are way too expensive for my taste (mainly their computers).
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
Steve Jobs HATED Android. Right?
In recent weeks, Larry Page has come forward claiming that Steve Jobs' personal hatred towards Android was just a show. It wasn't personal, claimed Page, but was instead meant to prove to shareholder that the two companies were serious rivals. Page claims he maintained a cordial relationship with Jobs up until his death.
However, according to Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson, the late CEO of Apple really did hate Android's guts on a deep and personal level...no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Speaking last night at the Royal Institution in the UK, Isaacson provided context for Steve Jobs's Android-rage. He said that Jobs had been upset ever since Bill Gates adopted Apple's graphical user interface for Windows, then liscencing the OS to Dell, IBM and other manufacturers. And he felt like the rise of Android was a repeat of this unfair cycle of companies copying Apple's design and passing it off as if it were their own.
Jobs thought Apple devices were "almost copied verbatim by Android," Isaacson explained to the crowd. "And then they licence it around promiscuously. And then Android starts surpassing Apple in market share, and this totally infuriated him," the author added. "It wasn't a matter of money. [Jobs] said: 'You can't pay me off, I'm here to destroy you.'"
Of course, we all know where all of this hatred ended up: endless patent litigations between Apple and various Android manufacturers. Who knows if Page truly had a "cordial" relationship with Jobs, but I'm guessing not. Jobs really believed that Android had ripped him off, and seems to have completely ignored Android OS's major differences AND the fact that Apple later copied many of Android's best features.
Apple and Google have always been rivals to each other.
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
I Am Marino said:
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
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i never even respected him much .......... if you'd been privy to some of the internal industry scuttle butt about his manner and behaviour with employees and 3rd party partners you'd maybe feel the same way.
It was an efficient corporate manager ....... much like ebola is an efficient infection.
But mos of that efficiency was completely based on being beyond ruthless and having no regard at all for the effects his actions had on other individuals, as long as it furthered his goals.
Thats exactly why Apple gave him the boot back in the old days ..... its all documented.
Interesting little read, thank you.
I've always been intrigued about market spin on these so-called rivals, and the behind the scenes truth.
I just wonder where the anti-trust lawsuits are when Apple goes around trying to sue competitors out of existence while already having a pretty high market share in the smartphone sector.
Luckily there is an anti-trust suit going on right now about Apple fixing prices on e-books. Apparently the 50+ % markup on the iPad wasn't enough for them. I don't see how in this day and age Apple users still think Apple is morally better than Microsoft when they are really just as bad.
In technical and marketing fields, Steve was a genius.
In life, he wasn't so much lovable man.
playerpro said:
but still.. its because of Steve Jobs only i guess Android was evolved.
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No not even remotely ....... your buying into the commonly purported 'one man tech company' myth ....... anyone with a clue, who knows how a tech company actually works, knows that's utter garbage.
But is a very useful marketing/PR hook to hang the hat of a so called charismatic CEO on.
He was an efficient manager ....... with a good sense for grandiose phrasing.
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
rafa6571 said:
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
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Dude, grow up,
now please stop this google-apple hate-fest. What was going between Page-jobs, i think they better knew than us.
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
siravarice said:
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
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This is true. Its funny how apple is suing Google because they infringed on some copyrights but what about the fact that apple stole the notification pulldown. Its really kind of silly that they filed a lawsuit against Google because the froyo AOSP sliding tab lockscreen was similar to the iPhone slide to unlock lockscreen.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
He was just an angry guy, sad but true and most guys with brilliant minds who have massive ideas usually have abnormal side effects.
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
I Am Marino said:
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
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they're doing the exact opposite. they're like dumb kids in the sandbox throwing pebbles at each other. ice cream sandwich would have re-defined what andoid is in peoples minds, but sony/htc/samsung/etc wouldn't allow it.
It would be amazing if Android OEMs would work together and actually improve Android greatly. Sadly, they work separately and try to be better than the other OEM. This competition is good, but I think it would be better if they just worked similarly. As for Jobbs hating Android, very much expected. Just like him and Windows ;P
rdubyah said:
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
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Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
porkchopexpress said:
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
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I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
I have plenty of friend who have Macbooks, and they all have windows installed so they can do a lot of things, it's quite funny.
Regarding the OEM's fighting each other, they won't ever all come together to challenge Apple, especially if they can customise android to hell and back. Personally I feel if they couldn't customise it as much, the handsets would be customised more and we would actually see better, faster handsets.
siravarice said:
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
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Most people are pleased as punch with their iPhones it seems, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps the iPhone isn't the best suited phone for YOU, but that doesn't mean its not the best suited phone for someone else.
Hey guys i was just catching up on some news when i come across this article
'If you think Apple competes with Android, you’re wrong' from ZDnet. Here is a little snippet of it
Apple has never done things like other tech companies. Never. They’ve never fallen prey to analyst opinion or competitor bling. Why should they? They’re the innovators, not the imitators. Apple produces the products like they want them to be–not like Android-designers think they should be. Apple builds them and we buy them by the millions. People camp outside of Apple stores and Apple product retailers to ensure that they get a new Apple device. You don’t really see that with Android products.
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it. That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.
after reading the entire article i was not too sure about the guys claims.
but if you could read the article and voice me your opinion on it that would be great
here is the link http://www.zdnet.com/blog/consumerization/if-you-think-apple-competes-with-android-youre-wrong/507
philster16 said:
That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.[/I]
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I've always hated that this is seen as "common knowledge". Most profitable? Maybe, but I refuse to see Apple as the most successful company when they are only able to maintain a stable of a few specialized devices without a dominant market share in any field (maybe they dominate the tablet space but there is barely any legitimate competition in that area). I mean look at Motorola or Samsung or any other company that literally has it's hands in EVERYTHING tech. They might not dominate any single area, but they ensure no matter what happens they turn a profit in any way possible.
Having read the entire article it sounds as if the writer is a major ios fan and very biased. The articles only actual fact seems to be that people cue for apple products and that's proof they're great.
If apple don't compete with android why take android os features and put them in ios, why sue the most popular android device manufacturers but only those whose profucts challenge apples?
Apple don't innovate much at all anymore and definitely take note of their rivals.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I really hate it when Apple's fan girls start reviewing the company and buying their products. The reviewers only say these Apple SO friendly terms, like "It really is resolutionary!" They say that so they will be quoted by Apple.
As for their Fan Girls (a.k.a "Customers"), I find it annoying when you ask, the people that buy only Apple products for their Computers, phones, and tablets, why they bought the iMac over a PC and they say, "Because it was made by Apple so it is obviously better." I mean really? Why!?
ZDnet and Cnet are pretty Apple fanboi heavy, so this isn't surprising at all. The main difference I find between situations with Apple and Android fanbois is that Android enthusiasts tell the fanbois to shut their yappers; very few people who enjoy Apple for what it is tend to shout down the idiots.
There was another article on there not long ago by either that guy or another of their "experts" touting all the reasons that Android just didn't satisfy him, with the main points of contention resulting from him going to Best Buy and saying that Android was somehow at fault for the results of consulting with an unknowledgeable sales member. In short, it is not a site that I trust for anything in the way of editorials.
From the article: "I doubt anyone at Apple says to a coworker, “Hey, dude, did you see my <insert Android-based phone name here>, it has this. We should totally put one of those on the next iPhone.”"
Guess he is unaware of all that iOS 5 and now 6 have blatantly stolen directly from Android and WP. The guy is so clueless it's ridiculous.
Edit: his opening statement shows his lack of grasp on reality. Dinosaurs will die, and to say that a company like Apple doesn't need to worry about competition when Android has the larger market share and it is only increasing is pure idiocy. If guys like that ever sit on the board of any company it is only a matter of time before it inevitably falls apart. It's that kind of thinking that almost destroyed Apple to begin with.
Maybe he's right though and Apple does operate in a vacuum; vacuums are indeed defined by sucking the life out of everything around them.
There is a big difference between true product innovation and marketing hype.
Apple has not innovated as much as that article suggests over the years, they have only utilized smart marketing and community hype to sell their products with very little innovation in their product lines over this time.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Apple innovation = imitation + litigation + hype.
Just look at the iPad. The only thing about the iPad that is up to par it better than the competitors is the display. And that is the only thing that their advertising blitz talks about. They do not come close anywhere else.
If you put lipstick on a pig tho iFanBoys will line up to buy it.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA
philster16 said:
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it.
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This line makes me laugh. A smartphone user should know exactly what he wants in his product and if he gets more, then it's even better. But according to this line, it makes the writer seem like he wants what Apple wants him to want.
According to the article, Apple has never ever ever taken any ideas from outside. Why should they because they're innovators?
Really??! The writer seems to be unaware of any other technology in the world! Apple didn't invent the mp3 player. Granted, they made a lot of improvements and produced the best selling mp3 player but a majority of the ideas came from other products.
"To worry about the competition is a faux pas"? Then why are they trying to get the Galaxy SIII banned from entering the US. In reality, to not worry about the competition would be the stupidest move any company can take and of course Apple is worried about the competition.
My personal opinion regarding the huge success of Apple is the large user base who keep repeatedly buying Apple products without considering other (Better and cheaper) options, to blindly follow Apple into whatever they do. The writer's clearly reflects this. Another reason is that Apple products are simpler to use and by being so, not easy to customize. This is a big disadvantage for a lot of people, especially gadget freaks. Citing a personal example, I have an iPod 5G and I hated the fact that you could not even change the color theme whereas even cheap mp3 players had that function. I finally ended up putting a custom firmware (Rockbox) on it and was much happier. It even freed me from using iTunes and allowed me to use drag and drop.
My conclusion. The writer is severely misinformed.
Now it's only my thoughts on the issue.
There is always a competition between companies of the same market. I believe there are kinda regulations of that rivacy, I mean there are rules for companies to implement innovations, etc. Fruct corporation had to survive among all those giants of tech world and even go further. But how can they do it? So, they've started breaking those secret rules (here comes their everyday trials and actions from other companies) and moved forward far as they could. As you can see, Samsung, and other giants were ready to lanch their super smartphones and tablets, they did it soon, very soon after after Apple released their ones. So there are many variants on how it works. Some of them:
- Apple breaks rivacy rules
- Other companies just allow Apple do it (as they know, they see what can Apple do and do it the rest. They enter the market, that Apple was not able to win)
- Companies allow apple release their best products and analyse why people don't love fruct features and they give it to those who disappointed with Apple devices.
And many other variats are possible.
But the do! They compete with each other! As they have one marketplace
We never know what they do behind the curtain!!! we just try to be logic and use analytics
I know we all hate on apple, mostly for them being a **** company, but seriously, their stuff is ****.
Okay, it's snappy, and okay, it's nice looking.
But I had to work on a mac for a while, and I can say that without a doubt my PC (that was half that price) is vastly superior. Everything on mac works awful, including their retard son, Safari. Same goes for ipads, iphones, ipods. I just can't understand why someone would overpay for something that is worse.
As for why I had to work on a mac computer - they don't allow ios developers to make apps on anything else. **** company.
apple wins the battle apparently because they are the first to enter the market. Usually the first person enter a certain field wins.
However after a long period of time, many competitors come out with their so called immitation devices, however if apple does not innovate more thing in a field thats others never enter, they will eventually lose to those immitators. Because those immitators shaped by the market.
That guy probably is an iOS fanboy. Apple never imitates..????? LMAO.
It copied the drag down notification bar from Android...and many more..!
Android devices makes a better option because their price is little less than iPhones, iPads etc and performance is far more higher and we can customise the interface, install custom roms etc...!
Most People (not everyone) buy apple devices so that they can show off to others that they can afford such devices.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives
Just another Crapple Fanboy voicing out loud for the world to hear how ill informed he is. If Crapple spent as much time " innovating " as they do suing other companies, they might produce half way decent affordable products.
I laughed really hard when I read the word 'Innovation'.
DD-Ripper and prboy1969, I plus +1 both of you.
I think the only reason Crapple has been this successful because they use Unix and think about that, Both Linux and Mac OS (yuch) use Unix as there core language. Hands down though, Linux is far more better because of the fact that it's open sourced. Linux will never die if people are still willing to code it.
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I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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+1 :highfive:
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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To be fair to Apple making an idiot friendly slim tablet was what made tablets so popular, if it wasn't for them its doubtful we would have the competing android tabs that more tech minded people may prefer and when it debuted it was the best tablet so it did deserve some of the hype.
Apple took a good idea, ironed out the kinks and produced what became the benchmark for modern tablets. It wasn't the first ever tablet but it was the easiest and most user friendly and at the time was innovative.
Now Apple rarely innovate and yet people flock to buy their products but the original ipad was actually innovative and worth some of the hype.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alexanderd said:
idiot friendly
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Right here. This is the type of products apple makes. Like every other person in this thread knows, apple fans dont know why apple products are "better" they just are. Thats because the products are made for these idiots. Why is this better? Uhmmm......cuz i put an S on the end of it. My friend had an encounter with someone who would go far in apple. He had a droid X and wanted a faster phone, so he asked if he wrote X2 on the back it would be faster.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
OMG... That guy is really outrageus.... I added my comment too there into all those -ves which is quoted below... He even reviewed an adroid phone lol.. i have no patience to read it... i have sent same comment to his email n g+ profile... what he is doing there in goole plus rather than camping outside cupertino my god...
'lol.... i feel funny about 'apple operates in a vaccum'. If you can list out their innovations i can feed it into my ever lowering knowledge about apple n their products.. Hope u dont list inventing mobile phone into it.. Reading ur article n the payment u got u may be tempted to do it haha OMG... If apple is not going to balloon their 'small' device near close to current smartphone levels , surely they will be pumped out of scene like nokia gone down...Then by mere lawsuits against CR infringements wont be sufficient to stay in the competition. Didnt they invent their new technology yet to make screen big?
Common man , I would have been really happy if u tried looking at ur own backhole to see how big/small it is, instead of this ********. I'm very sure right now my middle finger on right hand is pointing upwards in front of ur face. This article makes more apple haters which goes against the intention behind it. May be by reading all those above -ve comments apple may take down ur next payment ... hahaha'
First off, I searched the forums to see if anybody has really discussed what seems to be a one-sided trial and I haven't really found anything. So I ask this question because I am a little confused on the matter...
If you have been following the news lately, you would see that the samsung vs. apple case has begun. Barely two days into it samsung releases evidence of designs that predate the iphone which look kind of similar. Apparently this "key" evidence was rejected by Judge Koh on the basis that it is irrelevant. You can google search the facts about this but here is one link http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407919,00.asp
Now, I am no legal expert and just taking a quick glance and seeing the evidence and hearing that it was rejected by the judge makes no sense right now. It angered me to think that samsung wasn't given a fair chance to provide evidence that seems clearly relevant to why this whole trial is even taking place. But I figured I should withhold judgment until I learn all the facts because like I said, I am no expert on legal matters and I know there is two sides of the story.
My question is, is there a good reason as to why the judge threw evidence out like this? A lot of people are claiming the judge is being payed by apple but I'm not going to quickly jump to that conclusion. I am wondering if there are any fellow xda people out there that have some experience in law or know a lot about this case and can elaborate as to why this has happened. I want to know if it is unfair to jump to the assumption that apple is somehow pulling strings behind the scenes.
I'd prefer people with a decent amount of knowledge in this case speak up and not people who have read a few articles and think they know all about it.
If it's one thing I'm really starting to learn, it's that all these tech sites seem to have a bias towards them. I see some sites blatantly ignoring and even sometimes lying about android and it's features, usabillity, etc. So I'd rather get advice, experience, opinions from people who at least know what they're talking about.
Update Now Apple is asking for judge to punish samsung for releasing public documents to the press
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...amsung_for_releasing_documents_in_iPhone_suit
I'm pretty sure that evidence was thrown out because it was entered too late by Samsung (there's a cut-off date after which no new evidence may be entered for consideration, since both parties must get some time to go over it and decide how to deal with it).
But yeah, unfortunately I think Samsung is gonna get screwed on this one. Apple seems pretty good at deceiving juries and judges (especially certain ones) into believing that they invented everything in existence. I just hope it doesn't end too badly for Samsung, as their phones are probably the biggest reason why Android has risen up as a viable competitor to iOS (and even raced right past it in market share). The smartphone world needs that competition. I shudder at the thought of a world where the only real choice is getting an iPhone.
RoadHazard said:
I'm pretty sure that evidence was thrown out because it was entered too late by Samsung (there's a cut-off date after which no new evidence may be entered for consideration, since both parties must get some time to go over it and decide how to deal with it).
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Ahhh, I see. Well that makes sense if it there's a deadline and they didn't make it. I will say that I find it pretty strange that they didn't make the deadline with evidence that seems to be pretty damn important.
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
MissionImprobable said:
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
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Worst case scenario... Apple wins. And also gets to enforce the recent touchscreen patents they were awarded. What does this mean for android? That's what I'm wondering. Although, I really hope this doesn't happen.
MissionImprobable said:
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
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Yeah... Richard Posner seems to be one of the only sensible ones. Quoting The Guardian:
The Guardian said:
At one point, for example, Apple claimed that Google was infringing one of its patents on the process of unlocking a phone by swiping the screen. "Apple's argument that a tap is a zero-length swipe," said Posner, "is silly. It's like saying that a point is a zero-length line."
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Apple is being silly, and this guy seems to be the only judge who gets that.
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
lucastan96 said:
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
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Yeah, if they actually manage to ruin Android (I don't believe they will), I'll go for a Windows Phone a million times before I even look at an iPhone. I never used to actively dislike Apple, I just wasn't very interested in their products, but recently they've really made me think they're a ****ty anti-competitive company that doesn't deserve a cent of my money. I truly hate what they're trying to do to the smartphone market.
lucastan96 said:
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
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I've kind of feel the same. I never really liked apple, although I know they make good products. After lots of research and hands on experience, I've realized iOS sucks compared to android. All it has is smoothness. Android has far more features and is simpler to use in my opinion. What apple really is good at is hype. After all these lawsuits with them suing everybody for what seems like ridiculous things, it's making me really hate the company now.
Free iPhones, iPads and Macbooks for the judges, it seems!
pk92 said:
Free iPhones, iPads and Macbooks for the judges, it seems!
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Yup...maybe they bribed the judges with free new Apple products
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
DD-Ripper said:
Yup...maybe they bribed the judges with free new Apple products
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I wonder why Samsung doesn't try the same thing, if I got some of those new Galaxy products for free I would want Samsung to win.
Just Another★Gamer said:
I wonder why Samsung doesn't try the same thing, if I got some of those new Galaxy products for free I would want Samsung to win.
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Because Samsung has some respect which Apple dont have. Thats why Apple is playing such cheap games on Samsung.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
I should point out, in the interests of fairness, that despite many of our suspicions regarding bribery or illicit deals there has never been the slightest evidence apple have bought legal rulings by anything other than legitimate and transparent means.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Am i the only one that thinks that the judges are acting like that because apple is considered "All american and genuine" company to them and Samsung is an invading country that want to knock off the "GREAT" american company?
From my experience there are people that are dumb enough to act like that....
Hell Guardian said:
Am i the only one that thinks that the judges are acting like that because apple is considered "All american and genuine" company to them and Samsung is an invading country that want to knock off the "GREAT" american company?
From my experience there are people that are dumb enough to act like that....
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This thought has passed through my mind to be honest
However I don't think any of this is as simple as "Apple is American" or "bribery".
It's a broken patent system that Apple is using to try and prolong the inevitable - which is Android taking over the majority of the market for what could be decades. Apple is within their rights to attempt to use their patent portfolio to slow down the competition. This is not debatable. They are using legal means and the current system to attempt to enforce their dominance since they can no longer maintain it with product alone.
Although I am a Samsung fan and a huge supporter of Linux, Android, Google, etc. I cannot get past the picture of the Galaxy SII next to the iPhone. Side by side, it does look like they ripped them off. That is where I believe Samsung screwed up. It's not the functionality/UI patents that are troubling to me, it's the fact they made it look like the iPhone. It's almost undeniable. They encroached on brand recognition, to the point that you can't deny they look very similar. Too similar.
In my opinion, that will be the cause of Samsung's defeat. Everyone says "you can't patent rectangles or the color spectrum". But you can't rip off someone's design either. And they did, pretty plainly IMO. Why do you think there are no Black GSIII's? Samsung knows what they did, and they didn't want to risk it with their new flagship.
As far as software patents, Apply can kiss my ass. But they have the right for their product to look unique. No matter who designed something similar back in the day. No one sees a black, rectangular phone with a huge slab of glass and says "hey, that's that Sony phone prototype!". But any average person, even an elderly person who doesn't much follow tech, definitely recognize an iPhone. Unless of course, it's next to a black Galaxy SII.
Just my two cents.
ingenious247 said:
This thought has passed through my mind to be honest
However I don't think any of this is as simple as "Apple is American" or "bribery".
It's a broken patent system that Apple is using to try and prolong the inevitable - which is Android taking over the majority of the market for what could be decades. Apple is within their rights to attempt to use their patent portfolio to slow down the competition. This is not debatable. They are using legal means and the current system to attempt to enforce their dominance since they can no longer maintain it with product alone.
Although I am a Samsung fan and a huge supporter of Linux, Android, Google, etc. I cannot get past the picture of the Galaxy SII next to the iPhone. Side by side, it does look like they ripped them off. That is where I believe Samsung screwed up. It's not the functionality/UI patents that are troubling to me, it's the fact they made it look like the iPhone. It's almost undeniable. They encroached on brand recognition, to the point that you can't deny they look very similar. Too similar.
In my opinion, that will be the cause of Samsung's defeat. Everyone says "you can't patent rectangles or the color spectrum". But you can't rip off someone's design either. And they did, pretty plainly IMO. Why do you think there are no Black GSIII's? Samsung knows what they did, and they didn't want to risk it with their new flagship.
As far as software patents, Apply can kiss my ass. But they have the right for their product to look unique. No matter who designed something similar back in the day. No one sees a black, rectangular phone with a huge slab of glass and says "hey, that's that Sony phone prototype!". But any average person, even an elderly person who doesn't much follow tech, definitely recognize an iPhone. Unless of course, it's next to a black Galaxy SII.
Just my two cents.
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Samsung didn't copy the iphone though, they actually had iphone like designs the year before iphone was made public.
Are you saying that because apple used that design in public first, even though samsung had a very similar one earlier, that apple should be only one able to have anything similar "no matter who designed something similar back in the day"?
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
mistermentality said:
Samsung didn't copy the iphone though, they actually had iphone like designs the year before iphone was made public.
Are you saying that because apple used that design in public first, even though samsung had a very similar one earlier, that apple should be only one able to have anything similar "no matter who designed something similar back in the day"?
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
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It's the phone itself in combination with the dock, square icons, general "appearance" I'm taking about. I'm sorry but it's really not debatable. It looks like a foreign clone of an iPhone.
Sent from the current Heavy Weight champ GALAXY SIII
If worse comes to worst you know we'll just all switch to buying Chinese android devices. The Chinese system not only ignores Apple's chicanery, but has ruled in favor of several plaintiffs against Apple and allows the phones that truly are copies to be sold freely. I don't in any way foresee it coming to that but it will be a long, long time before Apple ever sees dollar one of my money and I will do whatever I can to keep an Android device in my hands.
Brought to you by the letters "M" "I" "U" "I"
ingenious247 said:
It's the phone itself in combination with the dock, square icons, general "appearance" I'm taking about. I'm sorry but it's really not debatable. It looks like a foreign clone of an iPhone.
Sent from the current Heavy Weight champ GALAXY SIII
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You're not getting this. Samsung has shown (to the best of my knowledge the evidence that was tossed by Judge Koh, was legit from Samsung), that they had prior art to this style of design, the apps, the home button, the rounded corners, well before Apple ever went public with the iPhone.