Hey guys i was just catching up on some news when i come across this article
'If you think Apple competes with Android, you’re wrong' from ZDnet. Here is a little snippet of it
Apple has never done things like other tech companies. Never. They’ve never fallen prey to analyst opinion or competitor bling. Why should they? They’re the innovators, not the imitators. Apple produces the products like they want them to be–not like Android-designers think they should be. Apple builds them and we buy them by the millions. People camp outside of Apple stores and Apple product retailers to ensure that they get a new Apple device. You don’t really see that with Android products.
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it. That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.
after reading the entire article i was not too sure about the guys claims.
but if you could read the article and voice me your opinion on it that would be great
here is the link http://www.zdnet.com/blog/consumerization/if-you-think-apple-competes-with-android-youre-wrong/507
philster16 said:
That’s why Apple is the most successful tech company ever.[/I]
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I've always hated that this is seen as "common knowledge". Most profitable? Maybe, but I refuse to see Apple as the most successful company when they are only able to maintain a stable of a few specialized devices without a dominant market share in any field (maybe they dominate the tablet space but there is barely any legitimate competition in that area). I mean look at Motorola or Samsung or any other company that literally has it's hands in EVERYTHING tech. They might not dominate any single area, but they ensure no matter what happens they turn a profit in any way possible.
Having read the entire article it sounds as if the writer is a major ios fan and very biased. The articles only actual fact seems to be that people cue for apple products and that's proof they're great.
If apple don't compete with android why take android os features and put them in ios, why sue the most popular android device manufacturers but only those whose profucts challenge apples?
Apple don't innovate much at all anymore and definitely take note of their rivals.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I really hate it when Apple's fan girls start reviewing the company and buying their products. The reviewers only say these Apple SO friendly terms, like "It really is resolutionary!" They say that so they will be quoted by Apple.
As for their Fan Girls (a.k.a "Customers"), I find it annoying when you ask, the people that buy only Apple products for their Computers, phones, and tablets, why they bought the iMac over a PC and they say, "Because it was made by Apple so it is obviously better." I mean really? Why!?
ZDnet and Cnet are pretty Apple fanboi heavy, so this isn't surprising at all. The main difference I find between situations with Apple and Android fanbois is that Android enthusiasts tell the fanbois to shut their yappers; very few people who enjoy Apple for what it is tend to shout down the idiots.
There was another article on there not long ago by either that guy or another of their "experts" touting all the reasons that Android just didn't satisfy him, with the main points of contention resulting from him going to Best Buy and saying that Android was somehow at fault for the results of consulting with an unknowledgeable sales member. In short, it is not a site that I trust for anything in the way of editorials.
From the article: "I doubt anyone at Apple says to a coworker, “Hey, dude, did you see my <insert Android-based phone name here>, it has this. We should totally put one of those on the next iPhone.”"
Guess he is unaware of all that iOS 5 and now 6 have blatantly stolen directly from Android and WP. The guy is so clueless it's ridiculous.
Edit: his opening statement shows his lack of grasp on reality. Dinosaurs will die, and to say that a company like Apple doesn't need to worry about competition when Android has the larger market share and it is only increasing is pure idiocy. If guys like that ever sit on the board of any company it is only a matter of time before it inevitably falls apart. It's that kind of thinking that almost destroyed Apple to begin with.
Maybe he's right though and Apple does operate in a vacuum; vacuums are indeed defined by sucking the life out of everything around them.
There is a big difference between true product innovation and marketing hype.
Apple has not innovated as much as that article suggests over the years, they have only utilized smart marketing and community hype to sell their products with very little innovation in their product lines over this time.
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Apple innovation = imitation + litigation + hype.
Just look at the iPad. The only thing about the iPad that is up to par it better than the competitors is the display. And that is the only thing that their advertising blitz talks about. They do not come close anywhere else.
If you put lipstick on a pig tho iFanBoys will line up to buy it.
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philster16 said:
The reason is that Apple products have what we want and what we don’t even know that we want until we see it.
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This line makes me laugh. A smartphone user should know exactly what he wants in his product and if he gets more, then it's even better. But according to this line, it makes the writer seem like he wants what Apple wants him to want.
According to the article, Apple has never ever ever taken any ideas from outside. Why should they because they're innovators?
Really??! The writer seems to be unaware of any other technology in the world! Apple didn't invent the mp3 player. Granted, they made a lot of improvements and produced the best selling mp3 player but a majority of the ideas came from other products.
"To worry about the competition is a faux pas"? Then why are they trying to get the Galaxy SIII banned from entering the US. In reality, to not worry about the competition would be the stupidest move any company can take and of course Apple is worried about the competition.
My personal opinion regarding the huge success of Apple is the large user base who keep repeatedly buying Apple products without considering other (Better and cheaper) options, to blindly follow Apple into whatever they do. The writer's clearly reflects this. Another reason is that Apple products are simpler to use and by being so, not easy to customize. This is a big disadvantage for a lot of people, especially gadget freaks. Citing a personal example, I have an iPod 5G and I hated the fact that you could not even change the color theme whereas even cheap mp3 players had that function. I finally ended up putting a custom firmware (Rockbox) on it and was much happier. It even freed me from using iTunes and allowed me to use drag and drop.
My conclusion. The writer is severely misinformed.
Now it's only my thoughts on the issue.
There is always a competition between companies of the same market. I believe there are kinda regulations of that rivacy, I mean there are rules for companies to implement innovations, etc. Fruct corporation had to survive among all those giants of tech world and even go further. But how can they do it? So, they've started breaking those secret rules (here comes their everyday trials and actions from other companies) and moved forward far as they could. As you can see, Samsung, and other giants were ready to lanch their super smartphones and tablets, they did it soon, very soon after after Apple released their ones. So there are many variants on how it works. Some of them:
- Apple breaks rivacy rules
- Other companies just allow Apple do it (as they know, they see what can Apple do and do it the rest. They enter the market, that Apple was not able to win)
- Companies allow apple release their best products and analyse why people don't love fruct features and they give it to those who disappointed with Apple devices.
And many other variats are possible.
But the do! They compete with each other! As they have one marketplace
We never know what they do behind the curtain!!! we just try to be logic and use analytics
I know we all hate on apple, mostly for them being a **** company, but seriously, their stuff is ****.
Okay, it's snappy, and okay, it's nice looking.
But I had to work on a mac for a while, and I can say that without a doubt my PC (that was half that price) is vastly superior. Everything on mac works awful, including their retard son, Safari. Same goes for ipads, iphones, ipods. I just can't understand why someone would overpay for something that is worse.
As for why I had to work on a mac computer - they don't allow ios developers to make apps on anything else. **** company.
apple wins the battle apparently because they are the first to enter the market. Usually the first person enter a certain field wins.
However after a long period of time, many competitors come out with their so called immitation devices, however if apple does not innovate more thing in a field thats others never enter, they will eventually lose to those immitators. Because those immitators shaped by the market.
That guy probably is an iOS fanboy. Apple never imitates..????? LMAO.
It copied the drag down notification bar from Android...and many more..!
Android devices makes a better option because their price is little less than iPhones, iPads etc and performance is far more higher and we can customise the interface, install custom roms etc...!
Most People (not everyone) buy apple devices so that they can show off to others that they can afford such devices.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives
Just another Crapple Fanboy voicing out loud for the world to hear how ill informed he is. If Crapple spent as much time " innovating " as they do suing other companies, they might produce half way decent affordable products.
I laughed really hard when I read the word 'Innovation'.
DD-Ripper and prboy1969, I plus +1 both of you.
I think the only reason Crapple has been this successful because they use Unix and think about that, Both Linux and Mac OS (yuch) use Unix as there core language. Hands down though, Linux is far more better because of the fact that it's open sourced. Linux will never die if people are still willing to code it.
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I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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+1 :highfive:
alexanderd said:
I hate all these Apple addicts out there. They are the most idiotic and annoying "tech" people out there.
Apple releases a new products that is "new" but in reality it's just a revamped product that was out already.
Like the iPad... Tablets have been around for a long time. Just cause Apple decided to bring them back making them thinner, and more idiot friendly doesn't make them as great as they are hyped to be.
I'm sick of all the hype that surrounds Apple's products...
I'm through with my rant now... thanks. lol
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To be fair to Apple making an idiot friendly slim tablet was what made tablets so popular, if it wasn't for them its doubtful we would have the competing android tabs that more tech minded people may prefer and when it debuted it was the best tablet so it did deserve some of the hype.
Apple took a good idea, ironed out the kinks and produced what became the benchmark for modern tablets. It wasn't the first ever tablet but it was the easiest and most user friendly and at the time was innovative.
Now Apple rarely innovate and yet people flock to buy their products but the original ipad was actually innovative and worth some of the hype.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alexanderd said:
idiot friendly
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Right here. This is the type of products apple makes. Like every other person in this thread knows, apple fans dont know why apple products are "better" they just are. Thats because the products are made for these idiots. Why is this better? Uhmmm......cuz i put an S on the end of it. My friend had an encounter with someone who would go far in apple. He had a droid X and wanted a faster phone, so he asked if he wrote X2 on the back it would be faster.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
OMG... That guy is really outrageus.... I added my comment too there into all those -ves which is quoted below... He even reviewed an adroid phone lol.. i have no patience to read it... i have sent same comment to his email n g+ profile... what he is doing there in goole plus rather than camping outside cupertino my god...
'lol.... i feel funny about 'apple operates in a vaccum'. If you can list out their innovations i can feed it into my ever lowering knowledge about apple n their products.. Hope u dont list inventing mobile phone into it.. Reading ur article n the payment u got u may be tempted to do it haha OMG... If apple is not going to balloon their 'small' device near close to current smartphone levels , surely they will be pumped out of scene like nokia gone down...Then by mere lawsuits against CR infringements wont be sufficient to stay in the competition. Didnt they invent their new technology yet to make screen big?
Common man , I would have been really happy if u tried looking at ur own backhole to see how big/small it is, instead of this ********. I'm very sure right now my middle finger on right hand is pointing upwards in front of ur face. This article makes more apple haters which goes against the intention behind it. May be by reading all those above -ve comments apple may take down ur next payment ... hahaha'
Related
And the judge complies and orders samsung to release them.
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/24/appl...devices?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget
"San Jose Judge Lucy Koh is forcing Samsung to hand over new and unreleased mobile devices to its rival, Apple. Apple's lawyers will get a chance to look at these devices as part of its infringement case against Samsung. In this complaint, Apple is accusing Samsung of violating a variety of utility patents, design patents and trade dress registrations for its suite of iOS devices.
The phones and tablets requested by Apple include the Samsung Galaxy S2, Galaxy Tab 8.9, Galaxy Tab 10.1, Infuse 4G and Droid Charge. Apple will be looking closely at the packaging and the TouchWiz UI used by the Korean manufacturer to see how closely it mimics Apple's iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. Specifically, Apple is looking for elements that will confuse people into thinking the Samsung devices are the same as the iPhone.
In response to Apple's complaint, Samsung countersued Apple for patent infringement in Korea, Japan and Germany. Both cases are slowly making their way through the legal system in each of these countries."
this is a huge conflict of interest to me, how can another phone competitor be allowed access to prototype phones with the newest and best secrets/ideas to be released by a fellow phone maker/competitor?
what a joke.
if apple actually took the time to open the iphone to more carriers, maybe make a entire line of iphones like a droid line or whatever, with different carriers, even a prepaid they would be way better suited and have more market share. instead of wasting time on endless litigation and court cases.
anyone who buys apple is a moron.
i want to know, is apple going to hand over a prototype iphone 5 for samsung to "check" for mimicking?
or are we just gonna have to find one near a urinal at a local bar again?
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
Richard1510 said:
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
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i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
intheb0x said:
i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
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Agreed, this is stupid at face value, although the models they have to hand over are either released or going to be released imminently. However I had a little look around and this article from cnet says that only the Apple legal team will be allowed to see the devices (no-one from Apple or any of their in-house lawyers can). So as long as their legal team aren't crooks and mysteriously start acquiring complementary iWhatevers I'm sure Samsung will be fine
vbetts said:
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
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it may look like it, but its not iOs what so ever.
and wheres the thread?
i searched and did not find it.
and i would of posted this if it was any other phone maker.
apple sues everyone and anyone over ANYTHING.
they think they own everything related to smart phones, i run a phone with touchwiz, ive had iphones they are NOT even close to being the same.
just because they share tile looks doesnt mean they "stole" the ugly idea from apple.
apple is a joke, they want every phone maker to not be innovative and make things, they want the iphone to have every new thing that comes to market while every other phone be dirt.
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. What's the point of trademarking something if others are going to use a design close enough to it? They trademark to protect their designs. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG. Also, I wasn't saying you wouldn't. I'm only saying you would or other people would because it involves Apple demanding from another company. If it were Samsung, HTC, Motorola, or LG demanding from another company people wouldn't care, or hell even if Apple didn't demand anything from the above mentioned companies.
vbetts said:
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG.
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thanks for the link.
apple has been sending the lawyers on a frenzy lately, i think they are upset that everyone doesnt have a iphone.
i think they are more "sue" happy then many other companies. Microsoft could be up there with them.
i guess we will see how it fans out, but i think the phone thing should go both ways, apple should have to give up the newest iphone as well./
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
vbetts said:
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
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Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
I know that Samsung will triumph over the Apple juggernaut.
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Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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wang1404 said:
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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+1 they are the biggest iphonies around!
apple
I wouldn't put anything past Apple they are school yard bullies !!
intheb0x said:
Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
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Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
if there is 5 similarities, samsung will get any punishment from US law
SuperDeform said:
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
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But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
vbetts said:
But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
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Mmmmm that really sux
vbetts said:
Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
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Agree!
10!
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
"All Things D is reporting that the two patents in question are 5,946,647 and 6,343,263, the former of which is said to be "fundamental to Android."
Any ideas?
orkillakilla said:
but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it
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Isn't the Xoom some half-finished product, both software and hardware-wise?
Other than that, I fully agree with your post - Apple is afraid. Very afraid. They're not the only ones though, Microsoft is as well. That's why they're both resorting to patent litigation. While at the same time Apple is totally copying Android's notification dropdown. Hypocrisy at it's best.
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
MartyLK said:
The ones who are really afraid? The ones who keep talkin' smack about Apple and MS. Otherwise they would sit back and watch it.
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Yes, we're talking out of fear, it's totally not about calling companies out on their crap. Sure. LOL
Totally agree bother! Didn't Microsoft get in trouble for forcing there software into pcs? Someone got paid off for win this last one with HTC. I think its totally against our rights to hold back technology for the gain of one. Plus the iphone is old school. Its time to move on to better pastures Mr jobs! Remember how technology was for apple before the iphone came out or the ipod? Apple sucked the big one! I think there running scared cause android is its competition! to bad,we the people have a right to choose!
droid charge
orkillakilla said:
It seems mister Steve Jobs is very scared of Android, as I'm sure your all aware.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...es-patents-appea/&category=classic&postPage=1
Apple continues to target the major Android handset manufacturers. Unfortunately it seems HTC lost its battle with Steve for now, with Samsung also under fire.
Does Apple really think they can slow down Android enough to keep its precious iPhone on top? Not likely. I don't think showing fear is good for the company.
Apple continues to rely on its brand name's reputation, instead of doing something truely innovative (the iPhone was innovative... WAS. The iPad was innovative as well, but lets just say the Xoom beats the crap out of it). Now the iPhone is small screened and slow (network and CPU wise) compaired to any high-end Android device.
Apple is only buying time. Sooner or later, the iPhone fad will come to an end, much like Facebooks current plight.
Feel free to give your input.
*NOTICE* These are my personal opinion. If you like the iPhone or Apple for that matter, then more power to you. Apple makes good products, expensive as they are. Flaming is not necessary.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
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hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
jags_the1 said:
hmm another android vs apple thread...hmm.. lost count on the numbers now
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Hmm... another pointless post. Lost count on the number now...
If you don't want to add to the discussion, or don't like the fact that there are many of these threads, simply don't read it.
Has far as the Xoom goes, I've only read good things about it, and that it's at least on the same level as the iPad. I haven't played around on one though, so I can't say for sure.
It seems Microsoft and Apple, being the "old dogs" in the computer/tech/smartphone world, have their tails between their legs, acting like a chihuahua showing it's teeth at a pit bull...
orkillakilla said:
something about dogs
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I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
Tone_ said:
I don't think its Apple with the problems.. check out some snippets from the link below:
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/07/itc-judge-finds-htc-in-infringement-of.html
ITC judge finds HTC in infringement of two Apple patents
Google's Android mobile operating system is in serious trouble:
Patents appear to be at the core of Android and are likely infringed by all Android devices
I have looked at those patents before and they appear to be very fundamental. They are very likely to be infringed by code that is at the core of Android.
This could in a worst-case scenario result in an import ban against many or even all Android-based HTC products in the U.S. market.
In a slightly less negative scenario, HTC might have to remove certain functionality from its products, and that could result in a significant or even substantial degradation of the quality of those devices.
Since those patents don't appear to relate to HTC's own extensions of Android but to Android itself, they may affect all of the other makers of Android-based devices. Apple could soon be in a strong position to obtain import bans against dozens of device makers.
Apple unlikely to grant a license -- but might make damages claims
Android is also under fire in dozens of federal lawsuits. By my count, there are 49 Android-related infringement suits (federal and ITC). A very prominent one is Oracle's lawsuit against Google, and the judge presiding over that case has raised very serious questions about the possibility of Google's intentional infringement of Java-related intellectual property.
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As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
I have read some about the Oracle case, but I haven't really read all about it yet. I'll definitely give that a look.
Also, I would like to thank you for making a productive post that isn't negative, and that actually adds to this discussion.
Well it's not really a surprise here. Every software dev does this kind of thing. They ask patents on certain elements that they know would slow down or make another product less appealing.
Otherwise spending thousands of dollars on patents would be kinda pointless.
And like MS did and does it sues those that so called took there patent without asking or paying. I don't see anything new here. Sure it's again the big companies Apple vs Android but heck those are the 2 biggest players for home usage.
The point of all these lawsuits is:
Try and get money from competition even banning devices
Showcase all features you have but others can't get
Advertise
And for the other company sympathy. Besides ads even if they are bad are always good for sales
And a good lawyer stretches it till it either expires or till they invent something better.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought S3 recently and Apple has been found infringing on S3 patents. This stupid game works both ways. So there may not be a one-way settlement, but instead a cross-licensing deal.
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
Also, it begins, the backlash because of this software patent stupidity: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/15/app-developers-withdraw-us-patents <- It's app developers for now, but I'm really, really waiting for the day when hardware makers simply pull out of the US market. Let the US companies sue each other into oblivion, while the saner parts of the world flourish in actually moving things forward.
orkillakilla said:
As far as HTC goes, they are likely to settle with Apple, paying them god knows how much money, if Apple even accepts an offer like that.
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HTC bought out the rest of S3 and apple infringed them so who knows, would most likely be other Android manufactures that cop it..
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/4/apple-found-guilty-s3-patent-infringement/
Gusar321 said:
@Tone_: Apple resorting to patent litigation is because it is them with a problem. Android's growth is much faster than iOS's. And Apple doesn't like that.
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They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
Tone_ said:
They say there is no smoke without fire also a lot of people buying Android probably could not afford or do not want iphones so Apple probably aren't that worried as its a sale they would not have made.
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That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
orkillakilla said:
That's not necessarly true. Before Android, if you wanted a smart phone, you either got a WMP, crapberry, or an iPhone. Most people probably wouldn't want a windows phone. Blackberries were good, but moslty for business people. That leaves iPhone. If Android weren't in the picture, you can bet a lot of people would be getting iPhones.
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
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True but I would say wanting rather than getting at the time they were expensive, still are in comparison. All Android sales are not sales lost to Apple as I alluded to earlier.
Apple are probably more bothered about all the taglines the iworshipers love to hear that they can no longer use..
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
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Jmatch said:
Isn't another selling point of Android the screen size of some devices? I mean alot of people can't type or anything on the iPhones tiny screen
Sent from my I500 using XDA Premium App
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I remember going to the Apple store when the iPhone came out to try it. I couldn't type with my sausage thumbs. So I was banned to sliders and flippers until the newer 4.3 Android phones. And now Apple winning against HTC... WTF. Go to hell Apple. I'd rather reactivate my VX8300 than buy a iTurd.
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
MartyLK said:
I remember when the iPhone first came out. The only smartphones we had were low-quality, low-tech devices with resistive, un-finger friendly LCDs. The best we had was Treos or other stuff. There were no smartphones with all the tech the iPhone employed at that time. When the iPhone came out, it included all that futuristic tech we all dreamed of but could never get. It was like going from vinyl records to CDs. For you young-uns, that was a huge and exciting step.
The iPhone opened up a whole new world. Here in the US, companies were either too scared or too lazy to make an effort to incorporate solid reliability and high-tech into a smartphone. Then comes Apple. They not only made a world record phone, but made it genuinely reliable and usable. Sure...other companies had smartphones. But they didn't have the simplicity and cleanness and reliability or contain all of the high-end hardware the iPhone contained. Apple did for us consumers what the rest of the industry at that time did not want to do: make a fully developed and reliable smartphone that they (Apple engineers) wanted to use. Apple made a phone that they, themselves, wanted. You don't get that anywhere else in industry. Companies only make what their bean counter, lawyers, committees or shareholders want them to make. The other companies are only interested in putting out just barely good-enough products that will sell. Apple basically said to hell with the committees, lawyers, bean counters and made what they wanted to make. *THAT* is why the iPhone became a world-wide phenomenon. When a company makes something you truly want and wish a company would make, it will sell wildly and take over the world.
That is Apple. The company that did us all good and right and now, because other companies are copying Apple's success, and spreading lies and mis-information about Apple, people hate Apple. Apple gave us all what no other company had the stones to give us. And people are hating them for it. People look at all the smartphones we have now and say Apple's stuff is ****. But they never stop...or are too young to realize...that before the iPhone, the only thing we had was nothing like or as good as an iPhone.
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Click to collapse
Yes, Apple opened the doors to the modern smartphone, but if it wasn't them, someone else would have.
As for Apple as a company, the ONLY thing they did right was the iPhone/pod/pad. Their computers were crappy as hell (WERE). They have done better with computers recently, though not for the price in my opinion. I don't necessarily hate apple, I just think most if their products are way too expensive for my taste (mainly their computers).
Sent from my HTC Cyanogenbolt
Steve Jobs HATED Android. Right?
In recent weeks, Larry Page has come forward claiming that Steve Jobs' personal hatred towards Android was just a show. It wasn't personal, claimed Page, but was instead meant to prove to shareholder that the two companies were serious rivals. Page claims he maintained a cordial relationship with Jobs up until his death.
However, according to Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson, the late CEO of Apple really did hate Android's guts on a deep and personal level...no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Speaking last night at the Royal Institution in the UK, Isaacson provided context for Steve Jobs's Android-rage. He said that Jobs had been upset ever since Bill Gates adopted Apple's graphical user interface for Windows, then liscencing the OS to Dell, IBM and other manufacturers. And he felt like the rise of Android was a repeat of this unfair cycle of companies copying Apple's design and passing it off as if it were their own.
Jobs thought Apple devices were "almost copied verbatim by Android," Isaacson explained to the crowd. "And then they licence it around promiscuously. And then Android starts surpassing Apple in market share, and this totally infuriated him," the author added. "It wasn't a matter of money. [Jobs] said: 'You can't pay me off, I'm here to destroy you.'"
Of course, we all know where all of this hatred ended up: endless patent litigations between Apple and various Android manufacturers. Who knows if Page truly had a "cordial" relationship with Jobs, but I'm guessing not. Jobs really believed that Android had ripped him off, and seems to have completely ignored Android OS's major differences AND the fact that Apple later copied many of Android's best features.
Apple and Google have always been rivals to each other.
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
I Am Marino said:
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
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i never even respected him much .......... if you'd been privy to some of the internal industry scuttle butt about his manner and behaviour with employees and 3rd party partners you'd maybe feel the same way.
It was an efficient corporate manager ....... much like ebola is an efficient infection.
But mos of that efficiency was completely based on being beyond ruthless and having no regard at all for the effects his actions had on other individuals, as long as it furthered his goals.
Thats exactly why Apple gave him the boot back in the old days ..... its all documented.
Interesting little read, thank you.
I've always been intrigued about market spin on these so-called rivals, and the behind the scenes truth.
I just wonder where the anti-trust lawsuits are when Apple goes around trying to sue competitors out of existence while already having a pretty high market share in the smartphone sector.
Luckily there is an anti-trust suit going on right now about Apple fixing prices on e-books. Apparently the 50+ % markup on the iPad wasn't enough for them. I don't see how in this day and age Apple users still think Apple is morally better than Microsoft when they are really just as bad.
In technical and marketing fields, Steve was a genius.
In life, he wasn't so much lovable man.
playerpro said:
but still.. its because of Steve Jobs only i guess Android was evolved.
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No not even remotely ....... your buying into the commonly purported 'one man tech company' myth ....... anyone with a clue, who knows how a tech company actually works, knows that's utter garbage.
But is a very useful marketing/PR hook to hang the hat of a so called charismatic CEO on.
He was an efficient manager ....... with a good sense for grandiose phrasing.
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
rafa6571 said:
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
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Dude, grow up,
now please stop this google-apple hate-fest. What was going between Page-jobs, i think they better knew than us.
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
siravarice said:
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
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Click to collapse
This is true. Its funny how apple is suing Google because they infringed on some copyrights but what about the fact that apple stole the notification pulldown. Its really kind of silly that they filed a lawsuit against Google because the froyo AOSP sliding tab lockscreen was similar to the iPhone slide to unlock lockscreen.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
He was just an angry guy, sad but true and most guys with brilliant minds who have massive ideas usually have abnormal side effects.
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
I Am Marino said:
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
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Click to collapse
they're doing the exact opposite. they're like dumb kids in the sandbox throwing pebbles at each other. ice cream sandwich would have re-defined what andoid is in peoples minds, but sony/htc/samsung/etc wouldn't allow it.
It would be amazing if Android OEMs would work together and actually improve Android greatly. Sadly, they work separately and try to be better than the other OEM. This competition is good, but I think it would be better if they just worked similarly. As for Jobbs hating Android, very much expected. Just like him and Windows ;P
rdubyah said:
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
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Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
porkchopexpress said:
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
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I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
I have plenty of friend who have Macbooks, and they all have windows installed so they can do a lot of things, it's quite funny.
Regarding the OEM's fighting each other, they won't ever all come together to challenge Apple, especially if they can customise android to hell and back. Personally I feel if they couldn't customise it as much, the handsets would be customised more and we would actually see better, faster handsets.
siravarice said:
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
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Most people are pleased as punch with their iPhones it seems, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps the iPhone isn't the best suited phone for YOU, but that doesn't mean its not the best suited phone for someone else.
Well, sadly, in another thread regarding the shipment delays I made the poor mistake of defending Apple and claiming the shipments being held by the ITC was likely a routine screening and not being held up because of Apple.
Turns out, I was wrong. Apple has filed a formal grievance with the US ITC today saying that HTC hasn't actually resolved the software issues and should meet as an emergency and re-enact the ban blocking imports of HTC phones.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=10560
This is just more over-aggressive bull**** lawsuits for no reason. HTC is in no position to even directly compete against Apple in the market, and ultimately is doing some of the most unique software and hardware design in the industry.
At what point does this whole mobile lawsuit nonsense come to a boiling point?
Also, as a point of full disclosure, and because I don't really want to ***** about Apple being the worst company on earth, I do own use and love my iPad, Macbook Air, and iMac. I do own an iPhone 4S but as of recently it sits off in a drawer while I use my HOX.
This thread was not started with the intention of people piling in to say how Apple is terrible, or builds ****ty products, but rather have a conversation about the challenges of the mobile industry moving forward. As each company tries to innovate and release compelling products the likelihood of overlapping features and functionality is inevitable. How does the industry encourage innovate without trampling intellectual property rights? (or in other words, **** Software Patents)
Apple is just pissed the one x is better than the iPhone
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
This is so ridiculous...
What gets me is how many of these patent disputes are actually FRAND (fair use) issues.
I'm waiting for some judge to put down his iPhone and see things clearly. Patent law is out of control and companies are only using it to maintain a monopoly or remain profitable to their stockholders when their product is actually no longer inovative and has lost market share (see also TiVo)
Apple sees a threat in Android a threat that will screw the company I hate apple but now its the devil to me .
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But this is bs! Why would they do that, apple needs competition, its basic business 101. Does apple think since I can't get a htc one phone imma get me some ios?? Hell no and im sure like me, that's just gonna piss others off and make it a point NOT to buy any apple products.
Maybe a boycott of apple is in order.
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
.
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They should start focusing on a new iOS or putting something extraordinary in the iPhone 5 instead of law suites. Hop off android. Power users choose android and the rest use iOS their lawsuits won't convert anybody. They're always suing somebody haha. Samsung, HTC, might as well sue Google and the rest of the world.
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This has little to do with rightfully protecting intellectual property, and everything to do with patent trolling and using the law to attack competitors.
Android has gobbled up market share due to the fact that manufacturer are willing to give people variety and choices. Meanwhile, Apple is trying to lock everyone into one device form factor.
This also more represents Apple's failure to innovate, rather than the opposite. The iPhone has hardly changed its looks after 5 iterations. Aside from different backing material, it has looked almost exactly the same. And few internal hardware innovations as well. Aside from moving to a better screen, and a better camera, the hardware has only had incremental improvements (CPU and memory) over its entire lifespan.
The one form factor business model has benefited them in many ways, but we've come to a point where people now want bigger screens on their smartphones. Apple has simply run out of new ideas in the present form factor. Their biggest recent innovation. . . Siri (chuckle). They are stuck and they know it. If they move to a larger iPhone (and also a smaller iPad, or "iPad Mini" as its rumored) they begin to experience some of the OS fragmentation that they have criticized Android for so many times in the past.
I don't mean to complain about Apple so much, or sound like a hater. They make some nice devices, and have contributed some nice interface design to the smartphone world (earlier in the iPhones history). But its clear that they have stopped innovating. Instead of coming up with new ideas, they have chosen to use petty methods of attacking their competitors.
freakboy13 said:
Man anyone see the original apple commercial for the first imac from the 70's or whatever? Oh the irony
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It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
I really tend to agree. While no one can argue that iOS and the iPhone were amazing innovations, and helped spur the mobile industry as it stands now, iOS has really stagnated on innovate.
There haven't been amazing new features / innovations to the platform in awhile and it seems Apple cares more about others not doing what they have done in the past then focus on what they can do in the future.
I think everyday there are more examples of software design that should be open and licensed rather than closed IP. Things like "pull to refresh" and "pinch to zoom" are functionalities that exist in natural user interface and simple should be able to freely licensed to all software developers.
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
I just feel like software patents are going to be increasingly difficult to develop and protect and that these major players in the market need to understand there will be functionality overlaps. As such I want to see this bull**** end and cross-licensing begin.
fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
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That is rational. Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP. They have so much cash that they don't know what to do with it and there is no sign of their revenue stream stopping any time soon, so they don't need the money. This is just a pissing match at this point. Apple's intention is total "Thermo-Nuclear-War" annihilation of Android. Things might start to get a bit different now that Steve Jobs is not around...but perhaps it is too soon. Not that I agree with Apple.
I just think patent reform is needed. Competition is good though. In some ways I think Apple has helped HTC. Now HTC has notoriety. Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband. This HTC One X is now notorious. So even though sales were stopped because of customs I think more people now know what HTC is and that it represents a credible threat to Apple. People will want what they are told that they can't have....human nature.
This is why i got away from apple products not going to support their lawsuits... im tired of hearing this stuff but of course its not going to stop...
Instead of innovating they use wide spread patents to squash competition.
It's not just a problem in the phone industry, patents are way too wide sweeping, long lasting, and powerful these days. Try and remember patent law was created to promote innovation not crush it.
galfert said:
Everyone I've recently showed my One X to asks to hold it, and then while holding it they are wowed and act as if they are handling a rare illegal piece of contraband.
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Click to collapse
I have experienced this too and with my old Samsung Captivate as well. When people see an Android phone they are wowed by it and by the ability to make it what YOU want. When they see an iPhone, it's just another iPhone, there's nothing special anymore, nothing "magical." I used to get excited over iPhone announcements back in the days where I was a poor high school student yearning to have a smartphone. Now, howveer, I find the annoucements boring because really, there's nothing to be excited about anymore.
Apple where we invented the lawsuit
Sent from the Darkside of the Force
fungflex said:
If Apple approached HTC and simply said pay $X dollars per device to have open cross licensing with Apple's software licenses this whole bull**** could be put to bed in a legal manor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
galfert said:
Apple has no interest in negotiating nor being rational. They are the highest valued company in the world. They have no intention of licensing IP.
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Click to collapse
Well, it looks like that's exactly what happened, and HTC refused to license.
"Apple reportedly asked for $5 - $15 per device to settle Android patent dispute" (I'm not 'allowed' to post my source link, but if you google that headline, you should find it on the Dow Jones website. Article is dated May 5th, 2012.)
So HTC just went on their merry way and knowingly infringed on the patent. If they didn't see this coming, then they're idiots.
That said, I LOVE this damn phone! I see why Apple might have a little envy smeared on their faces!
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
kilo89 said:
Does anybody know what exactly it is they are claiming infringes on their patent still? I thought this was resolved with the adding of HTC Linkify Dispatcher. I've used the AT&T ROMS and I've seen how annoying this has made the UI compared to the Rogers version, what more do they want?
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Click to collapse
Money plain and simple friggin monopoly
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
galfert said:
It was the first Mac (or Macintosh back then) not iMac and the year was 1984. It played during the Superbowl. The irony is that 1984 (spelled out) is a book by George Orwell which was published in 1949 that dealt with a society under total government control. Apple's claim during the Macintosh commercial was that they were going to show the world how 1984 (the year) was not going to be like 1984 (the book). Apple has become the antithesis of what it proclaimed back in 1984.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for clearing up my ignorance, that's totally what I meant to say, (reference to the book by G.O.), and the point I was trying to make, lol.
I don't totally hate on apple my MacBook pro still best computer I have, and its almost 4yo, and still kicks ass media wise. But this lawsuit thing is just out of control.
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Boycott Crapple and encourage others to do the same. Enough already.
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It's looking very dim for samsung at this point. My overall observation is how big of a blow would this win if Apple wins be to the Android OS?
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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That can't handle that "beast".
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screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
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Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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+1
with all respect to the late Steven P. Jobs, apple had a huge problem with people copying interfaces, and this is more of a Jobs thing.
If you look at the history of the company based in the Jobs biography, it has always had problems with competitors copying them, but seems like this time is the first time that they feel the leverage to pursue legal action.
I for one am seeing this as apple being completely ugly and childish, and it certainly has changed the way that I look at them and their products.
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
mustbepbs said:
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
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Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Last I checked, the US still has anti-monopoly laws in place. Will it deter their dominance quest? Of course not. What can we do? What we already do: support and run Android! Plus, without apple, these forums would be overrun with idiots asking what the extra physical buttons do and demanding to know why they didn't receive a gingerbread and frozen yogurt sandwich covered in jelly beans and cupcake frosting with their device purchase
Super SGS3, Away!!
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stevenjcampbell said:
Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
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I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
Sccrluk9 said:
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
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I think you are right. This will definitely go to appeal. Chances are that Samsung will get whatever judgement suspended until its worked its way through the system. This case is very hotly contested and I can see it making it to the Supreme Court.
blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
Yeah, this is looking bad.
They don't sue Google because it's Samsung that allegedly infringed on their patents. They copied the form-factor, they copied the icons. The form-factor is less of an issue - I think they will win on that. A flat touchscreen in a square body is basically the only design you could use for a touch-centric OS. But the icons, and that document that came out today, oh God...
It is depressing that in the gigantic tech space, there really is no company besides Apple that has the user-centric design culture to make what is essentially a perfect device for the vast majority of users. They have copied, and will copy, but the difference is Apple is innovative in a way that Samsung and Google simply are not. Google is too geek-and-tech centric to do what Apple does. They love hacking. They love making phones people can hack. They are like us Android fans, they love customizability, and so they don't pay attention to the details that would make Android a perfect OS for mobile devices, because, in their world they WANT people to customize and add their own flair. They want people to be like them. And a lot of us are like that, we love it. I love it. But that's a minority. Most people want an appliance and a perfectly engineered system to play Angry Birds in.
iOS is designed just as a simple vehicle for launching apps for the most part. Android is designed to be a bit more than that. In any case they chose to use the Microsoft strategy of just getting the OS out there instead of making a device that would be a perfect synergy of hardware and software. And Samsung is just a consumer electronics company, making cookie-cutter devices for the most part. They are trying, I'll admit, but it's all half-assed. S-Voice is almost useless, they bring nothing special to Android with TouchWiz, the gestures are nice but really just gimmicky. And if they do come up with something absolutely original, they need to bring the fight to Apple, who will no doubt copy really useful features like voice-activation for the camera. And they probably won't...
There is no chance of monopoly issues as long as Android is as successful as it is. I remain convinced Android's biggest problem is there are simply not enough developers in the world interested in Android. There are numerous technical and economic reasons why Android does not have the apps and the polished apps we deserve. I fear, just as PC software was essentially Microsoft's domain for so many years, the next 15 years will be defined by the mobile space being iOS' domain. There simply isn't the justification for developers to work on Android as much, just as most PC software development was for Windows, not Macs back in the '90s...
I think Samsung will get hard...maybe it will be enough to startle them into innovation, but frankly, Asian companies do not have a great history of it. The last great consumer device to be invented in Asia was Sony's Walkman, and that was 30 years ago.
Face it, we have PCs. But PCs without the appbase. A few of us are enthusiasts, water-cooling and overclocking and have 3 screens. That's the XDA crowd, the hackers, the ROMers, the developers and themers. But the vast majority of Android users are downmarket folks who couldn't afford an iPhone but wanted to check their email and browse the web.
piiman said:
Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
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I agree. Maybe I'm not seeing the context, but it sure just reads like he's pushing his developers to come up with better products, which is what he should be doing.
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
marsonist said:
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
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I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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kishin14 said:
I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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Absolutely fare questions. I own an Android device because I am inherently a tinkerer. I have had every generation of iPhone with a brief lapse in 2009 when the OG Droid was released. (I say brief because I gave it away after three months.) The interface and primary functionality of iPhones is a well worn path. I decided that I'd like something that I can toy with more. The ability to tinker is not a feather in Samsung's cap, however, rather a more fundamental aspect of the Android core.
It is now 2012. Early Android phones left *a lot* to be desired. Newer devices are more stable and have a few neat features that the iPhone doesn't, yet, have. Would these devices have lasted long enough to say "We've got NFC first" if they hadn't spent four years walking in the iPhones footsteps? I don't think so.
It's really a stupid case in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samung probably took the iPhone as an example when they developed the Galaxy line. So what? Does Apple want Samsung to make phones shaped in a triangle? Beds have looked pretty much the same bar some details but no-one is complaining about copyright infringement. If something makes an impact as big as the iPhone on society, how is it possible not to think of it when developing a phone after it's release?
I hope Apple wins the software side of the argument so then maybe Samsung will stop puking their TW over android and let Google deal with any legal **** that comes about.