Samsung and Microsoft settle Android licensing dispute
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
just because Android sales are waaaaaaay better than their windows phones
Samsung, htc, and Motorola have to pay back royalty fees to Microsoft for selling non Microsoft products?
what a load of crap
not much better than Apple playing a similar card with all those product bans
simply lame
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in
What all has been happening these days!
Weird things!!!
AllGamer said:
why does it sounds like Microsoft is almost like begging for money here?
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Not begging. Extorting. I mean, is it even about some specific patents? Because at least publicly, it totally looks like MS is doing this: "Nice phone you got there... would be a shame if something, you know, happened to it..."
that too
basically it almost as if they (HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Viewsonic, Acer) are not paying Microsoft, they are not able to sell Android phones.... WTH is that?
Android is open source, Google is not charging for it, yet Microsoft is extorting the manufactures for using Android instead of Windows????
if they produce also Windows phone they only pay $10 per phone, if they don't produce any window phone, then it goes up to $15 per phone!
it's like WTF is going on?!?!?!
AllGamer said:
they can't compete in tech innovation, so they'll use any means necessary to kill Android.... sad world we are in
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You could also look at it the other way - actually the way Samsung, HTC, and the legal system in several different developed countries sees it:
"Google couldn't compete with innovation - so they go steal something from Apple, something from MS, and make Android... bRRRRRRRRiliant."
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
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Another useful post from the ultimate android troll...hates android so much and yet can't stay out of any thread that mentions it!
Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all, just correcting his mistake. It's not a lack of innovation on Microsoft's part that's making oem's have to pay to use android. That's androids patent infringement. Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft. Then again, winmo 6.5 would've been just as good as android today had they had a decent app catalogue and more importantly an easier way to reach said apps.
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Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.
z33dev33l said:
Therefore it's android's lack of innovation that's causing them to have to pay Microsoft.
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Ok, if you're "just correcting" other people, then I will correct you.
You're talking as if those patents are about some great innovations. But that is complete BS. Those patents are about generic totally obvious things, like "method to update the address book". And I'm not kidding with that, "method to update the address book" is one of the patents in the Microsoft vs. Motorola dispute.
Yeah, updating the address book is serious, serious innovation and Google is totally being the big bad non-innovator by daring to create an OS where you can update the address book. I mean, how dare they!!
z33dev33l said:
The whole reason they're paying is because they themselves could not innovate. Windows phone is undoubtedly the most innovative OS on the market right now. The majority of people just either haven't tried it beyond screwing around at an ATT store for 2 minutes or because you can't customize much. The "people-centric" OS though is without a doubt the most innovative stand-alone OS.
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Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
This way ford should have been more capital worthy then Exxon since they where first to build cars.
Even Einstein,built upon others idea and refined it.
God ppl need to be more broad minded.
Op just asked why is Microsoft seeking money from an OS which is not even related to them, and you throw random bull of your innovative crap
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
jags_the1 said:
Lol...
So if you cant innovate , u should pay royalties?
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Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it. If I can't sow some jeans - I go and pay CK to do it. If I can't make an OS by myself - you guessed it - I pay someone else who did it.
Property is property. Period.
Exactly. But now with Samsung and HTC paying royalties to MS based off Android, it would seem like this is the case going forward. That's pretty much every major OEM accounted for(except LG since Moto is now Google's). Having custom hardware and UI's did nothing to prevent the courts from agreeing to licensing fees. Android is not free in absolute terms anymore
krale said:
Actually yes. If I can't make a hamburger - I pay McD to do it.
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But even if not you personally, a lot of people *will* make hamburgers. And will McD go collecting royalties from them? Of course not, that'd be beyond ridiculous.
krale said:
Property is property. Period.
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Exactly. Property is property. But then there's also this other thing called "intellectual property". I personally cringe at that, because it's a total misnomer, but oh well.
krale said:
Exactly.
Its amazing how people think there must be a global conspiracy or something against Android. Its illegal activities that are costing the OS dearly.
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Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.
Its legal extortion. Tell me why M$ isn't going after "GOOGLE "?
Its the same tactics they use to force OEMs to license Windows for PCs.
M$ sucks at innovation and sales especially in the consumer sector.
I believe the reason they can't go after google is because they don't charge money for android. the manufacturers though, charge US through the sales of phones.
google gives android for free
samsung, htc, etc sells us android phones
Microsoft can say these manufacturers are taking my ideas and selling it and can't say the same thing to google
**** . And the arguement ensues......
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
..........
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
Krale, just click on his name and look at his previous posts before you get into a conversation that you know nothing about...lol. His posts are all the same. He sees a post about android and goes in and bashes it. Well, I am done with this thread seeing how you people have given him what he wanted...arguments and controversy.
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no, I see a thread where Microsoft is made to look like the bad guy for not letting themselves be walked all over and I defend them. It's not a matter of fanboyism or what OS I favor. It's just what's right.
Related
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/go...e-attack-2011-04-22?link=MW_story_latest_news
massive attack to androd
u know the saying once ur on top everyone wants to knock u off.. But thanks for that great article.
Everybody suing everyone now days
movieaddict said:
u know the saying once ur on top everyone wants to knock u off.. But thanks for that great article.
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yeah man thats all about it
anthonys2r said:
Everybody suing everyone now days
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apple, those whores always tend to do that.... the the main suers ..**** apple
I hope no such thing as shutting down Android happens else Ima bomb the apple building
Android is waaaaaaay better than apple OS, sorry I like saying this again n again lol
Sent from my HTC T-Mobile G2 using XDA Premium App
This is old news, regarding Oracle. That article would make you think Android is about to crumble, and that is not the case. At least he points out that re-writing the code, slightly, would make this go away.
Google has way too much power/$ to not fix this for Android, which has exceeded their expectations wildly.
In short, do not fret. Apple just being scared, as they should be.
Just like Jobs said recently via an email that Android is tracking people and that they do not.... ignoring all the articles about apple tracking people lately.
EDIT, haha, just noticed he said Symbian would likely benefit (which is dead).... sad considering how much Nokia stock I own (frown face)
The iphone makes up 50% of Apples revenue stream now so Android is a massive threat to their business. Totally idiotic for a company or that size to have most of their eggs in one basket if you ask me.
Personally i think competition is good and keeps the market honest, but all this patent trolling that's going on is just ludicrous. It's no better than kids fighting over marbles in the playground.
bosina said:
apple, those whores always tend to do that.... the the main suers ..**** apple
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This is not accurate.
All the big mobile companies sue each other in circles, it is not the fault of a single entity.
DirkGently1 said:
The iphone makes up 50% of Apples revenue stream now so Android is a massive threat to their business. Totally idiotic for a company or that size to have most of their eggs in one basket if you ask me.
Personally i think competition is good and keeps the market honest, but all this patent trolling that's going on is just ludicrous. It's no better than kids fighting over marbles in the playground.
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This also is not really accurate.
How can you compare a hardware/software vendor to a software vendor?
When google is able to claim it makes the hardware its software runs on, then you can start saying Android is a "threat" to apple.
Google and Apple are entirely different beasts. Apple makes money when it sells its hardware, it includes the software "free" with its devices and it has always done this with any of its products.
Google makes software for multiple vendors, and makes zero hardware.
Apple has always been pretty sue-happy, moreso than other phone/computer manufacturers.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
its their way of trying to slow down growth of its competitors. like tripping your opponent in a 100 yard dash as hes about to pass you.
Erra said:
When google is able to claim it makes the hardware its software runs on, then you can start saying Android is a "threat" to apple.
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Really? So more people buying Android smart phones and the market share slowly tilting to Android's favor is not a threat to the sales of the iPhone?
I guess Windows is not a threat to Apple since Microsoft doesn't make computers then, right?
I sue u
u sue me lol just keeps on going
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App
Erra said:
This also is not really accurate.
How can you compare a hardware/software vendor to a software vendor?
When google is able to claim it makes the hardware its software runs on, then you can start saying Android is a "threat" to apple.
Google and Apple are entirely different beasts. Apple makes money when it sells its hardware, it includes the software "free" with its devices and it has always done this with any of its products.
Google makes software for multiple vendors, and makes zero hardware.
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Isn't the nexus a Google device?
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i would like to add 1 small piece to this although apple are a hardwar/software vendor it does contract out to people like samsung , so this apple google is also apple samsung writ , android and samsung together is a bigger threat to apple and apple think by sueing (as most companys do and would do in the same situation) both samsung and google may slow them down or as is most likely with the release of all the new smartphones ie galaxy s 2 and new nexus phones will generate a feelling within buyers that apple sell a better product because others are copying , this is not a serious attempt to stop android but with the timing so close to may first release date for sgs2 is more of a marketing exercise , for instance when google lost a case recently they had to pay 5 million $ where as if they had payed for the licence out right may have cost them 50 million $ dont take these figures to seriously but you get the idea this is the way business works and will carry on working as has been said before apple will still buy from samsung google will still develop android licences will be paid for in one form or another and someone will use somebody elses idea to improve their own and tommorrow will be another day
Thank you for the information.
Erra said:
This also is not really accurate.
How can you compare a hardware/software vendor to a software vendor?
When google is able to claim it makes the hardware its software runs on, then you can start saying Android is a "threat" to apple.
Google and Apple are entirely different beasts. Apple makes money when it sells its hardware, it includes the software "free" with its devices and it has always done this with any of its products.
Google makes software for multiple vendors, and makes zero hardware.
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shinkinrui said:
Really? So more people buying Android smart phones and the market share slowly tilting to Android's favor is not a threat to the sales of the iPhone?
I guess Windows is not a threat to Apple since Microsoft doesn't make computers then, right?
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Erra completely misses the point but shinkinrui saves the day by pointing that out for me. Nothing more to say really.
psiops said:
...but you get the idea this is the way business works and will carry on working...and someone will use somebody elses idea to improve their own and tomorrow will be another day
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Well put!
(5 to go)
manemzjum said:
Isn't the nexus a Google device?
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App
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Sort of, it's powered by google as all android phones are, but it isn't MADE by google, it is made by HTC, and the Nexus S is made by Samsung. Google works with the companies closely for these phones, but the phones themselves are not manufactured by google, and I'd be willing to bet google doesn't design the phones and pic the internal components to them either so much, they probably have some influence, but I'd be surprised if they had complete control when it is the manufacturer who stands to make or lose money on the phone based on sales.
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.
z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.
z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.
A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.
I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."
Check the link below what do you think funny or what me=FUNNY
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Cries+About+Samsung+and+Motorolas+Patent+Monopoly/article22586.htm
LG O1 Running Cm7 Mik_OS 2.35
Apple is the one who is abusing the patent laws
BlackRose 22 said:
Check the link below what do you think funny or what me=FUNNY
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Cries+About+Samsung+and+Motorolas+Patent+Monopoly/article22586.htm
LG O1 Running Cm7 Mik_OS 2.35
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do know they all are abusing my patient system...
Nice find. The I love that article. The main reason I will never buy apple. Their products are decent, not my taste but decent. Even if they came out with a great phone I would be hard pressed to put my money on a company like this.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Someone needs to put a patent on customers, that way they can sue when someone else steals them
Oh look, another biased tech site. Apple isn't abusing the patent system, they're utilizing it for its intendd purpose. There is a big difference. The fact that google steals everything is, and should be their downfall. People treat it as though they're innovating and yet everything they build and everything they utilize is stolen, to top it off the whole point of their platform is to steal your information.
z33dev33l said:
Oh look, another biased tech site. Apple isn't abusing the patent system, they're utilizing it for its intendd purpose. There is a big difference. The fact that google steals everything is, and should be their downfall. People treat it as though they're innovating and yet everything they build and everything they utilize is stolen, to top it off the whole point of their platform is to steal your information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right apple would never steal ideas.
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z33dev33l said:
Oh look, another biased tech site. Apple isn't abusing the patent system, they're utilizing it for its intendd purpose. There is a big difference. The fact that google steals everything is, and should be their downfall. People treat it as though they're innovating and yet everything they build and everything they utilize is stolen, to top it off the whole point of their platform is to steal your information.
Click to expand...
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The attention whore is back! You want to talk about stealing?? Youtube search Steve Jobs on stealing. He says word for word, "Good artists copy, but great artists steal." Youre just a biased android hater. Jobs said himself that stealing is a good tactic so obviously Apple has done a lot of that.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z
This is the same Apple that has initiated a patent war with its smartphone rivals. And it's the same rival that has tried to remove competing products from the market, rather than agree to negotiate a licensing fee. And it's the same company that patented multi-touch gestures 26 years after they were invented at a research university. And it's the same company that allegedly doctored evidence in European courts to support its lawsuits against Android. And yet this company claims android-based smartphone manufacturers are abusing the patent system.
Yes, it does seem like Android has been abusing Apple's patience
slapshot30 said:
The attention whore is back! You want to talk about stealing?? Youtube search Steve Jobs on stealing. He says word for word, "Good artists copy, but great artists steal." Youre just a biased android hater. Jobs said himself that stealing is a good tactic so obviously Apple has done a lot of that.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and again you put forth senseless insults, shocker. I'm not, nor could I ever say that apple doesn't steal, however, they also innovate. Google has failed to do this and makes it their business to steal from different hardware/software providers, and even their consumers. Google is a company founded on stealing and you all act as though you're offended by someone mentioning it.
z33dev33l said:
and again you put forth senseless insults, shocker. I'm not, nor could I ever say that apple doesn't steal, however, they also innovate. Google has failed to do this and makes it their business to steal from different hardware/software providers, and even their consumers. Google is a company founded on stealing and you all act as though you're offended by someone mentioning it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all Google only provides the software HTC, Samsung and other companies provide the hardware. Secondly Google android looks nothing at all like iPhone ui. IPhone is plain where as Google has customization with Widgets notifications and an open source market. Google android is so good that apple decided to implement it into there phones through ios 5, so I wouldn't be talking if I were you.
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ameedi600 said:
First of all Google only provides the software HTC, Samsung and other companies provide the hardware. Secondly Google android looks nothing at all like iPhone ui. IPhone is plain where as Google has customization with Widgets notifications and an open source market. Google android is so good that apple decided to implement it into there phones through ios 5, so I wouldn't be talking if I were you.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fully aware that googlr only provides the software, the software is what is used to steal everything. You CAN customize android to look however but by default its the same boring 4x4 slab of icons and that's how your average consumer will keep it. Android looked like blackberry OS until they saw the iPhone. Android has an open source market which has made it the 2nd biggest target for malware, it is expected that almost 1/3 of android users will encounter malware on their phone within the year. The most common varieties of this malware end up adding a hefty sum to your bill, these can be found on the "open source marketplace" that you're so proud of. As for your last statement saying apple is implementing android into iOS5 the only thing they've got that was stolen was the notifications bar. I'm no apple fan, but I feel justified in calling you an idiot.
Man everything that you mention makes you sound like an apple fan. Just get the hell out of here because no one likes a whiner who *****es about Google and says he's no apple fan. If you don't like Google so much then don't use any of their products as well as their search engine. No one cares what you think and I don't care what people think of my opinions. I'm not going to keep whining about it.
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Funny once apple sues samsung its all ok , block their sales all good , but once apple gets hit back with same meassure then everyone else is abusing pattents.
Lets face it apple wants to put a stop on so fast and developing android phones and software, all they can is try to find loopholes and sue.
We will see where apple will be in 2 yr time and where android will be.
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If it wasnt for these android oem's apples hardware specs would still remain mediocre. U can bet iphone 5 would have been iphone 4 repackaged with same hardware specs.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
z33dev33l said:
and again you put forth senseless insults, shocker. I'm not, nor could I ever say that apple doesn't steal, however, they also innovate. Google has failed to do this and makes it their business to steal from different hardware/software providers, and even their consumers. Google is a company founded on stealing and you all act as though you're offended by someone mentioning it.
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Hang on, in another thread your posts stated that Google do innovate (ok you were claiming that they didn't by arguing that they do innovate, but if crazy paradoxical logic is your thing, then go for it).
z33dev33l said:
Oh look, another biased tech site. Apple isn't abusing the patent system, they're utilizing it for its intendd purpose. There is a big difference. The fact that google steals everything is, and should be their downfall. People treat it as though they're innovating and yet everything they build and everything they utilize is stolen, to top it off the whole point of their platform is to steal your information.
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The RDF strikes again!
But this time I won't even bother with a rebuttal, it's useless anyway, in the next thread people will be spouting the same nonsense again and again.
It at least makes me a bit happy that most of the people in this thread do see it the way it *really* is - which is that Apple are being total and complete hypocrites.
I'll end with something I've asked in another thread, and of course didn't get a reply: How do you "steal" IP?
z33dev33l said:
and again you put forth senseless insults, shocker. I'm not, nor could I ever say that apple doesn't steal, however, they also innovate. Google has failed to do this and makes it their business to steal from different hardware/software providers, and even their consumers. Google is a company founded on stealing and you all act as though you're offended by someone mentioning it.
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Apple does not innovate. They steal many ideas and clump them into one nicely built product. However, most tech companies do take other's ideas and build on them. Apple, HTC, Samsung all feed off of eachother. However, it is a problem when Apple decides they can steal but no one else can, and thus this stupid patent war.
z33dev33l said:
and again you put forth senseless insults, shocker. I'm not, nor could I ever say that apple doesn't steal, however, they also innovate.
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You're on some serious hallucinogenic class a sh1t if you think Apple innovate anything.
100% everything they sell is not original and was done 10 years prior. They also specifcally leave out basic features just so retards buy the next product to get what should have been in the first.
The ONLY thing Apple are good at is their marketing, And that is convincing sheep like you that they bring things new to the table. Do some fking research dude.
Eye candy/marketed well yes, Something new/innovative absolutely not!
They really have done well out of Android's success.
Slashgear said:
Pantech will likely sign a royalty agreement with Microsoft that will involve paying $5 per Android device sold, a fee that other Android OEMs have been rumored to pay.
Microsoft is now collecting fees from nearly 70 percent of Android device makers.
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http://www.slashgear.com/pantech-next-to-pay-microsoft-over-android-patents-16209491/
That's because their own OS fails. I want to know what Micro$oft software over 70% of android devices are using that require royalties. Unless microsoft just kind of walked up like a 5th grader standing angrily over the kindergarten kid playing in the sandbox demanding lunch money, which seems to be the case.
Microsoft at this point make a lot more off of Android then they do from Windows Phone. All of that licensing money goes right back into feeding the current sink hole that is Windows Phone. Microsoft can do that though, they hemorrhaged for years on the Original Xbox
i am really curious to see what patents they are using that every Android OEM is so scared to challenge. (Accept Motorola who damn near invented the cell phone)
bdfull3r said:
Microsoft at this point make a lot more off of Android then they do from Windows Phone. All of that licensing money goes right back into feeding the current sink hole that is Windows Phone. Microsoft can do that though, they hemorrhaged for years on the Original Xbox
i am really curious to see what patents they are using that every Android OEM is so scared to challenge. (Accept Motorola who damn near invented the cell phone)
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Would you prefer we sue you and get your OS banned in tons of countries.
z33dev33l said:
Would you prefer we sue you and get your OS banned in tons of countries.
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i never said their was anything wrong with what they were doing, i prefer this approach to the Ban everything approach Apple is trying. I just stated a fact that Microsoft makes more from Android then Windows Phone and i asked what patents their were using.
I apologize, should've quoted jesushaxyou, hit the wrong button.
Jesushaxyou said:
That's because their own OS fails. I want to know what Micro$oft software over 70% of android devices are using that require royalties. Unless microsoft just kind of walked up like a 5th grader standing angrily over the kindergarten kid playing in the sandbox demanding lunch money, which seems to be the case.
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Have you ever used the OS? Sure it lacks the apps in comparison, but it is as good and better in some aspects in comparison to others, in terms of functionality.
$1 gets you a reply
z33dev33l said:
Would you prefer we sue you and get your OS banned in tons of countries.
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If ms had that much of a case they would sue google rather than go for device makers using googles os.
Just noticed when mentioning ms you say "we"...do you work for ms or was that a royal we said more as a wp7 fan?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
bdfull3r said:
i am really curious to see what patents they are using that every Android OEM is so scared to challenge.
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It's actually not about specific patents. Microsoft is following IBM's playbook from the 1980s, which goes like this:
In the 1980s, attorney Gary Reback was working at Sun Microsystems, then a young technology startup. A pack of IBM employees in blue suits showed up at Sun headquarters seeking royalties for 7 patents that IBM claimed Sun had infringed. The Sun employees, having examined the patents, patiently explained that six of the seven patents were likely invalid, and Sun clearly hadn’t infringed the seventh. Reback explains what happened next in this classic Forbes article:
An awkward silence ensued. The blue suits did not even confer among themselves. They just sat there, stonelike. Finally, the chief suit responded. "OK," he said, "maybe you don't infringe these seven patents. But we have 10,000 U.S. patents. Do you really want us to go back to Armonk [IBM headquarters in New York] and find seven patents you do infringe? Or do you want to make this easy and just pay us $20 million?
After a modest bit of negotiation, Sun cut IBM a check, and the blue suits went to the next company on their hit list.
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Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2011/07/07/microsofts-android-shakedown/
Most of the patents are trivial nonsense (no one will convince me that "method to update the phonebook" is a brilliant invention worthy of a patent). But fighting even those costs a lot of money. Possibly more than simply paying the extortion fee. So Microsoft gets away with it.
z33dev33l said:
Would you prefer we sue you and get your OS banned in tons of countries.
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"We"? Have you finally outed yourself as a Microsoft employee, as a paid shill of theirs?
bdfull3r said:
Microsoft at this point make a lot more off of Android then they do from Windows Phone. All of that licensing money goes right back into feeding the current sink hole that is Windows Phone. Microsoft can do that though, they hemorrhaged for years on the Original Xbox
i am really curious to see what patents they are using that every Android OEM is so scared to challenge. (Accept Motorola who damn near invented the cell phone)
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They certainly make as much.
gottabemobile said:
Microsoft makes almost as much money licensing patents to HTC, Samsung and other companies as it does selling Windows Phone 7 devices.
Yes, you read that right, Microsoft makes almost as much from Android sales as they do through sales of their own Windows Phone devices. That’s more than Google makes from the Android, which the company gives away to manufacturers. It is worth noting that Android users generate ad revenue for Google, which could add up to $1.3 billion in 2012.
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http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/0...-profitable-for-microsoft-as-windows-phone-7/
Kailkti said:
Have you ever used the OS? Sure it lacks the apps in comparison, but it is as good and better in some aspects in comparison to others, in terms of functionality.
$1 gets you a reply
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No, I've never used it. I'm just giving my opinion about something I've never used because of how I think it would run. -_-
It lacks in just about everything that's important to me in a mobile OS. I think the actual UI is kinda crappy, but other than that it does run smoothly. Just not for me.
Jesushaxyou said:
No, I've never used it. I'm just giving my opinion about something I've never used because of how I think it would run. -_-
It lacks in just about everything that's important to me in a mobile OS. I think the actual UI is kinda crappy, but other than that it does run smoothly. Just not for me.
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Well I can only push you to try the OS, then have a complete opinion.
$1 gets you a reply
mistermentality said:
If ms had that much of a case they would sue google rather than go for device makers using googles os.
Just noticed when mentioning ms you say "we"...do you work for ms or was that a royal we said more as a wp7 fan?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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Perhaps you don't know how, "open source." works.
Kailkti said:
Well I can only push you to try the OS, then have a complete opinion.
$1 gets you a reply
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You mistook my trolling sarcasm in the beginning of that hahaha. What I actually meant was yes, I have tried it. It's not my cup of tea.
z33dev33l said:
Perhaps you don't know how, "open source." works.
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Thats pretty funny considering I had to explain it to you 2 weeks ago when you were talking about Google getting sued.
lowandbehold said:
Thats pretty funny considering I had to explain it to you 2 weeks ago when you were talking about Google getting sued.
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No, you felt the need to explain it to feign a valid point because I said android could be sued out of existence were it not for microsoft's dependence on the same OEMs. This is the same reason I thought they should go strictly Nokia, most of the other OEMs have sad, unfunny jokes for windows phones in comparison.
z33dev33l said:
No, you felt the need to explain it to feign a valid point because I said android could be sued out of existence were it not for microsoft's dependence on the same OEMs. This is the same reason I thought they should go strictly Nokia, most of the other OEMs have sad, unfunny jokes for windows phones in comparison.
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Going striclty Nokia would be a mistake. Americans will not allow Nokia to be popular again.
lowandbehold said:
Going striclty Nokia would be a mistake. Americans will not allow Nokia to be popular again.
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Unless the phones chirp. Then it would be acceptable.
lowandbehold said:
Going striclty Nokia would be a mistake. Americans will not allow Nokia to be popular again.
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We'll see with the lumia 900. I have faith. It's not like most know the difference between one OEM or another.
z33dev33l said:
We'll see with the lumia 900. I have faith. It's not like most know the difference between one OEM or another.
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You're basically saying that just because one company has a good year with hand sets that they should be the only one to EVER make a device under that OS.
So, Samsung should be the only android device because they were (arguably) the most popular OEM in 2011?
Maybe no one can really tell the difference between the OEM's on the windows side because it's all the same ****. No one is allowed to make it any differently. With Android phones each OEM has a very distinct way to make the device function.
The lumia 900 is probably going to be a good phone. But then again I guess it's about time.
I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
Igoritza said:
I have searched all over the internet and there is no article that explains exactly WHY and HOW could MS collect Royalities from EVERY single company that putts Google's Operating system into their devices. and not just any amount, but 5-10$ from every sold device!?!
Could someone explain to me why ? How is it that Microsoft is earning billions from something that is not theirs .. ? And as I read in one article - they didnt even pull up the lawsuit, they are just threatening with words, and everyone agrees (HTC, LG, Samsung, EVERYONE!)
WHAT has MS made, that Android copied, and that it belongs into MS's patent claims .. ?
And, what on earth is Google doing about that ?
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Short answer: the patent system is broken, at least with regards to software. You can patent any stupidly obvious or generic idea ("slide to unlock") and the patent office, which makes money off these, will probably accept it.
(Indeed, there was an accepted 1996 patent on using a laser pointer to play with a cat. Go figure.)
Thus, companies like microsoft spam ideas into the patent office. And the patents are taken seriously enough that many companies would rather settle than take the risk of having their products blocked.
Android didn't necessarily "steal" anything; our patent system doesn't give a crap. See, patents were originally supposed to spread out the technical specifications of an idea, in order to spread the knowhow. The problem is, where it comes to software, the technical specification is so tied in to the idea itself that they're pretty much one and the same. Effectively, you're patenting ideas, and the broken patent system now punishes others for coming up with similar ideas. There's an entire literature on the brokenness, if you google around.
As for google itself, I'm not sure they are doing anything. They bought Motorola, but that might've been to protect themselves. If they have a plan for protecting their OS' manufacturers, it's not very obvious at all.
---
TLDR: HTC, Samsung, etc being punished by a broken protectionist system. The only way around it is really to get rid of the system itself.
Ultimately, the users are the ones who suffer from having to pay the costs of all this litigation, but this is probably more a long-term than a short-term effect. For example, $5 of royalties will probably not make a phone go from $699.99 to $704.99. Rather, the effect is less money going into R&D all around, and more going into lawyers' pockets. So as a user, if a phone costs $650 or $600, that's just how much it costs.. for now.
So, basically, this is a Game of US companies and imprinting their legal system on the rest of the world .. ? .. ? Cause, I dont see anyone from the rest of the world getting anything extra .. ? Damn, someone needs to remove that continent from this planet.
But, WHAT is in the core of the Android so that MS gets their share .. ? I understand how HTC Sense may be connected to some of the early WM5 stuff, but what about the rest .. ? they CANT patent almost everything, or do they .. ? And as I figured out, most of the patented stuff is GUI, that is ridiculous!
MS don't collect from every android manufacturer, just some. Basically they claim google infringe on their patents and went to manufacturers saying "pay us or we sue you" but afaik no one knows what patents are infringed and I think Barnes and Noble told them to politely get lost so not sure how they fared but it shows not all say yes. Unfortunately ms have good lawyers that seem very persuasive.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Just found out everything:
It is true, that few people know what is the actual deal. Google has sucessfully defended themselves from Oracle that claimed several patents, and purchase of Motorola from google is actually a defence mechanism cause Motorolla holds over 17.000 patents (W T F!!!!!) God knows how many Microsoft is holding, and how ridiculous those patents are being that they have much more than Motorola.
No one is considering abandoning Android cause that system actually made their devices popular, but still they all have a problem with MS blackmailing them. HTC made a boom, but they are still a small Taiwanese company that struggles all around (not getting Hanstar IPS pannels cause Apple ordered more, not getting Gorilla cause Apple and samsung ordered more, and so on) .. so the 5$ toll is pretty big number for HTC phones, and they are the ones that are in the biggest problem right now (not talking about smaller players in the game)
Damn you USA and your laws. Pizza is a vegetable, Kinder surprise is banned cause stupid american children would eat the toy. and Microsoft somehow owns Google's Android.
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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Why would they, if they can just take what everyone else is doing and put it mostly into one system they will never need to come up with any original ideas. Heck look at iOS5 and what they put into it. They added (just to name a few)
1. icloud (in essence a play on windows cloud service with their windows phone devices of cloud storage. the exception is this syncs with other ios devices but a play on microsofts idea)
2. draggable notification bar (android has had this forever now. The difference, on ios you can get a stock ticker and weather instead of just your notifications.)
3. imessage (Blackberry Messenger for ios basically)
4. OTA updates (blackberry and android both used this before apple)
5. wifi syncing (I know windows had this in their windows phone 7 devices not sure of any others that had this feature before kies air in samsung.)
6. Reminders, see reminders by date (a lot of the widgets on android let you do this without even having to open the calendar app)
that's just to name a few and just to show every company does it, even someone as big as apple does it. If you come up with your own that's great but people don't take to it as well as something they have already had. For instance if you had android and apple wants you to come over to apple they are gonna give you the things you love about android most like draggable notifications, wifi hotspot, etc. There is no need for originality anymore. That is just what this world has come to.
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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Why is that the question. Or are you suggesting that android is simply copied and stolen from others work?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
z33dev33l said:
I think the better question is, what has google come up with themselves rather than buying or stealing it?
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What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do.
It goes to the extent that almost anything can be patented, so that literally any rectangle shaped phone with TS could be patented by one company and so, baned for the rest. LG/Apple actually tried that (prada/iPhone) even though Eten, HTC (former Qtek) and HP already had PDA's with SIM functions much before that.
Android was developed before iOS (starting in 2005, already co-signed by 86 companies) and released in 2007, so there is no place for ripping off Apple. And, exept for the simultaneous development of iOS and Android which have similarities, I myself as a tech-geek and user of electronics, do not see ANY similarities of ANY android feature with ANY of the MS products and I had the chance to use them all - Windows versions on mobile and desktop machines. in terms of GUI and in terms of understanding how stuff works under the hood.
Im surely not able to understand 30k+ patents that MS holds, but that is not normal, that is more of a world sociology problem, rather than an actual technical one. that is retarded.
Igoritza said:
What .. ? U serious .. ?
Man, copyright infringement these days is ridiculous, there is NO possible way to make anything "new" if you take that seriously, as it seems that american courts do. .
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This is exactly on the dot. The way people have been duped into thinking that any sort of resemblance is "stealing" is actually sad.
And, unusually enough for z33, actually related to the topic. This entire ridiculous regime exists precisely because people are so ridiculously overprotective of their own ideas (or the ideas of whichever-team-you're-a-fanboi-of) while rationalizing their own copying of ideas from other people. The fact is, this copying is necessary because innovation does not exist in a vacuum, and yet we still react as stupid little apes when it comes to be our turn.
Sent from my Terran Command Center.
Well, this is how the system works. It's not about anything true, just what you can prove to be true.
There even exist companies that have the sole purpose of buying patents and using those patents to sue other companies!
In terms of the mobile industry, in case you didn't know, it is currently one of the hottest arenas in terms of patent lawsuits.
Here is a nice graphic: http://flowingdata.com/2011/08/22/mobile-patent-lawsuits-2/