Database Info

Perhaps why PocketPC's may be losing some ground to the iPhone?

http://vhxn.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/microsoft-releases-seadragon-for-iphone-before-windows-mobile/
Microsoft.

With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform

belabartok said:
With that we can get an idea of how much microsoft cares about it`s platform
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Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.

defroster said:
Yep, it's something we've all sort of known for a long time though, windows mobile development is being left almost entirely in the hands of third parties.
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Which is a good thing!
Imagine for a second that Microsoft would deal with its own platform as Apple does with theirs! I appreciate that 3rd party developers can freely program and develop and offer their software without having to wait until the os developer or manufacturer decides to make it available to their users through their store platform.
Nether-the-less, you guys really get the wrong ideas about Microsoft and their marketing strategies. MS releasing something for Apple devices before even released for Windows devices does not mean that they don't care about their own platform but rather that they are quite business smart! Apple might not have had interest in this if it would have been released already for WM; in addition, MS gets a food in the door step of Apple ... just widen your imagination and you will realize that the reasons for this are obviously not the one's suggested in the above posts!

the iphone is eating into the marketshare of everybody, not only WM... probably WM is hurth the least, look at nokia's differences since the release of the iphone.

i think posting this is a bit counter productive

jayjay8585 said:
i think posting this is a bit counter productive
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I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.

Ok guys i think i will sell my hermes then im not staying with ms no more if he is going to give iphone apps before his own platform whats up with this ****hole of a company.

defroster said:
I'm not sure how productive your post was.
But it's a simple fact and it's worth discussing I think.
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it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best

jayjay8585 said:
it wasnt productive but i think posting it in that manner is like wearing the end is nigh sandwich boards
im pee'd off too but i think we should always se ms winmo as the best
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that's just being a fanboy. if they can't be bothered making a respectable product why should we not move to apple, android, symbian or whatever? These are just tools and MS has counted on it's market share carrying it for too long, not just with mobile os's.

im not saying we cant move i just think posting threads sataing winmo is dying is bit of a drag on a forum that do a lot for this os
but still i reckon it is a good talking point titles daunting thats all
its seems a bit more impartial now
did you see the article on apple being ahead in sales of all winmo phones that mega insane thats not long after i heard iphone users are a niche market

Topic modified to be less daunting.

Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.

emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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well said i also believe that the iphone is a toy and not for professional use

emesbe said:
Mark Twain said "The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated". The lesson was success at the top can be isolating. MS was the only game in town for a long time, they are a huge company, and they seem to have a difficult time reacting swiftly. With that being said, I wouldn't count them out just yet. They've had Office for Mac for ages, but nobody said it must mean they're abandoning the Windows platform. They've created an app (and probably more to come) for the iPhone because it makes good business sense. The iPhone is a hot product -- why not jump on? With that being said, both my wife and son have iPhones and I think it's just a toy -- aimed at the masses who want to play rather than work.
I've had a Fuze since November 10 (moved from a Moto Q), added a significant number of tweaks (most from here) and am absolutely satisfied with this device. It does exactly what I want it to do and allows me to travel without lugging a laptop. So the bottom line, at least for me, is that I wouldn't start stocking up on beer for WinMo's wake just yet -- or at any time in the future.
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Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..

ilovethisplace said:
Microsoft had Office for Mac before they had Office for Windows..
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I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.

For the hell of it, that Seadragon app is some cool stuff. Can't wait to see how it looks on my Tilt.

nuke1 said:
I think they do this to prove they're not an evil empire hellbent at becoming a monopoly. But all us MS users hate it...and should.
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So when the hell do we get the Apple goodies for WM?

[Q] Should MS make it's own high-end WP7 device?

How many of you think it would be a good idea for Microsoft to enter the phone hardware market with their own device(s) ? I think the whole partnership strategy is hindering Microsoft's ability to make a huge footprint in the smartphone market. They can innovate OS wise, but the hardware is inherently lacking because of their business model.
I think Microsoft should build it's own really high-end WP7 device to compete directly with iPhone 5 in both hardware design and OS design (they've acheived the OS part already )

I like the design of most of the WP7 phones more than anything offered by the other OS' offer. Yes, I am serious. Smartphones are beginning to look the same for Pete's sake.
If they go with the uniformed model than manufacturer can release a couple dual core phones in a batch with full support of both cores from the OS. WP7 is already fast enough with a single core, with dual core...
They don't need a definitive phone right now, maybe in the future if they really find the need to.

Yes. The Xbox Phone! Soft plusing green behind the windows logo when you press it

You mean KIN? Yeah, that worked out pretty well.

Well the first release of WP7 phones left a lot to be desired If Microsoft were smart they would not have left there fate up to the suppliers.
The suppliers are the ones that have dropped the ball with the first lot of phones by not having one high end product between them.

what are you guys talking about??? Of course Microsoft has its own phone down the pipeline... looky here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTfPmN0YEM

Do you mean something like the Nexus One idea?
I think the technical preview phones they had looked pretty cool

mike21pr said:
what are you guys talking about??? Of course Microsoft has its own phone down the pipeline... looky here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTfPmN0YEM
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Nice! haha!
But seriously their hardware is usually top notch, why not?

foxbat121 said:
You mean KIN? Yeah, that worked out pretty well.
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That wasn't WP7 though.
Realistically though, it's not needed. The UI is the same on all the devices, as the features basically of the OS and phone. Microsoft wouldn't be making it either, the Xbox is their product but Foxxcon, Samsung, ATI, and other partners made the 360. Samsung and HTC both made Nexus phones, but also has phones with the same hardware. And LG is just kind of out there...

When this question is asked, I always think - I doubt MS would make it themselves. However, I could see them releasing another manufacturer's phone but repackaged under the MS name (for example, HTC started of like this).
However, the implication of this could be that MS would be seen to be favouring one of its WP7 partners over the others, which would never look good to the others.
Casey

It would definitely be nice, but if you think about it logically and from a business standpoint, it would not be a smart move. A lot of resource, facilities, and new human resources/expertise would be required to develop a new phone from scratch. The equipment alone would cost millions. The WP7 isn't selling so well, so at this point, they shouldn't commit to making one.

MrAndrewAu said:
It would definitely be nice, but if you think about it logically and from a business standpoint, it would not be a smart move. A lot of resource, facilities, and new human resources/expertise would be required to develop a new phone from scratch. The equipment alone would cost millions. The WP7 isn't selling so well, so at this point, they shouldn't commit to making one.
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as much as i like pointing out negatives with wp7, there are no hard sales numbers, ANYWHERE yet. if you're a fan of wp7, and want it to succeed, you have to end the self-fullfilling prophecy. if it's sad enough times, you will be correct, people won't buy and wp7 will die just like kin.
now then.. microsoft making a phone (hardware) would be incredibly stupid. they are too large a company, too slow to adapt, and too disorganized to produce a quality handset in the 2011-12 standard.
htc - excellent choice
samsung - they have a clue
anyothermakerinchina - yep, they can all copy an iphone pretty handily
there is absolutely no need in making their on phone. give the new wp7 a chance, like till Christmas this year before you call it dead. IF there still aren't any sales numbers officially quoted from M$, then you can call it dead.
It really does need one years maturity and UPDATES to prove if the company is committed or not. Saying "we're committed !" to the press is complete bull**** from _ANY_ company, and we should know this by now. ;-)

ohgood said:
htc - excellent choice
samsung - they have a clue
anyothermakerinchina - yep, they can all copy an iphone pretty handily
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I laughed. You don't seriously consider any of the HTC Windows Phone 7 devices better than the what Samsung or LG offer.. Right?
In any case, there are salesnumbers. 1.5 million devices were shipped to retailers in the first six weeks. One can only assume that most, if not all, of these were also sold to actual consumers considering it was near impossible to get your hands on a device in the beginning. Stores took deliveries of a box or two of phones rather than the hundreds they had ordered.

The Windows Phone Facebook page which shows the number of monthly users using the built-in facebook feature, is currently at 356994 users. I think that's close to the amount of actual handsets sold to consumers.

@vbetts and @Casey_boy:
I'm not speaking of manufacturing the phone. We all know that actual phone components and parts come from all over the place and OEMs. I'm speaking of designing and branding their own device (like the Zune HD).
MS needs to design a high-end physically attractive device. The current crop of WP7 phones don't seem like all-out efforts to impress. They're all generic designs.

Cruzer1 said:
The Windows Phone Facebook page which shows the number of monthly users using the built-in facebook feature, is currently at 356994 users. I think that's close to the amount of actual handsets sold to consumers.
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Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%

vetvito said:
Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%
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I've never used the facebook app on there... why would I with the epic facebook integration... its selling quite well because unlike other OSes it really brings something new to the table.

vetvito said:
Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%
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I don't see 7 mill units sold, if it was balmer would have thrown the number next to kinect at ces
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

lqaddict said:
I don't see 7 mill units sold, if it was balmer would have thrown the number next to kinect at ces
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
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True, no where near 7 million.
I was a little too conservative. There is a article on this.
---------
OK just found out that the Facebook attachment/usage rate for Android is 35-50%, and 50% for iPhone, 20-40% for other IOS users. Do the math and the numbers don't look pretty at all.

WhyBe said:
@vbetts and @Casey_boy:
I'm not speaking of manufacturing the phone. We all know that actual phone components and parts come from all over the place and OEMs. I'm speaking of designing and branding their own device (like the Zune HD).
MS needs to design a high-end physically attractive device. The current crop of WP7 phones don't seem like all-out efforts to impress. They're all generic designs.
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The Zune HD is a foxxcon product. Microsoft paid, branded, and designed it, but Foxconn built it.

microsoft is flexing some muscle to cripple the competition!

We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.

Leave it to Microsoft to try to take over! Company wars are so much more exciting than politics lol. Can't wait to see how this race produces!

Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.

They'll just weigh up the balance between paying a small amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS, or the costs of developing the minimum number of WP7 handsets to sit unsold in a warehouse while paying a smaller amount to make a phone that will actually sell running a decent OS.
It's a bit like supermarkets and loss leaders, will the loss on WP7 be less than the gain on paying not quite as much to make Android handsets that actually sell.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, they want their piece of the pie and if someone was using my tech to make money I would too.
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What tech did MS actually contribute to Android? Or better asked: What unique tech worthy of a patent did MS come up with? Most of these patents fall into the category where every even remotely seasoned developer can come up with the stuff. Of course we can't know for sure, because MS never actually discloses which patents are involved here. Because they know full well it wouldn't stand up to public scrutiny.
And that's assuming software patents make sense in the first place. Which they don't.

They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules. It doesn't matter who can make it now, it's who created it first.
xaccers, you're fighting a losing battle, I'm just going to sit idly by and watch my OS actually improve rather than pallet swap, man I love being lag free.

z33dev33l said:
They really don't but hey, I don't make those rules.
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So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket (pay up or else), the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
z33dev33l said:
man I love being lag free.
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So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.

Gusar321 said:
So you just accept the rules, no matter what they are. The abuse of the legal system (attack smaller firms who don't have the resources to fight first in order to create a precedent), the mafia-style protection racket, the obviousness of the patents, the very ridiculousness of even having software patents, all that is ok. Because the rules are the rules, right?
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In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched. I mean hell, if they did it first they have a right. As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault, iOS just did it first because they run their company with force rather than being laid back and just stealing info
Gusar321 said:
So do I dude, so do I. Though I must say, that is some very, very narrow criteria for choosing an entire operating system.
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Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days. I love xbox live, I love a well implemented office, I love the keyboard, I love that the DVP despite it's weak processor is the most impressive piece of hardware out there for mobile devices, I like the hubs, I like zune, there's just nothing wrong with all of it. It is not flawless, but it's as close as a mobile OS comes.

z33dev33l said:
In cases where I think the rules are not too far fetched.
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You can't honestly believe that they aren't far fetched in this case.
Do you know why patents were created for? And what they're used for in reality nowadays? And in particular the nature of software patents? If you really believe what you just wrote, the clear answer to those questions is "no".
z33dev33l said:
if they did it first they have a right
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But what exactly is it that they did first? It's like I said, trivial things that any seasoned developer can come up with. Being the first to wrap it up in tons of legalese to be granted a patent on it is not an admirable achievement. Patents only make sense for things that are unique, where it took a lot of effort to come up with something new.
z33dev33l said:
As far as google not having the resources that's their own fault
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That's just the thing, MS *didn't* attack Google. They attacked small companies releasing Android products. HTC was the biggest and now Samsung is even bigger. But they're taking on Samsung only after the precedent was set with the smaller companies. That's abuse of the legal system.
z33dev33l said:
Not at all but it certainly helps, I like having a phone that does everything I want without having to install any apps at all and without having to flash a new rom every 2-3 days.
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Wow, hyperbole much? I have all that on Android. And I'm not flashing every two days. That I choose to replace some apps with other ones was just that - my choice. Choice is good. It means competition. It means people vying to create the best music player, the best video player, the best... well, you get the picture.
And what do you know, I have the lag-free interface too.

I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.

GnatGoSplat said:
I guess if your product can't compete on its own merits, this is one way to go about it.
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If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.

z33dev33l said:
If more of the community was more intelligent then Microsoft would have no issues, sadly it's not the case. No one does their research or looks into a phone before buying it. The majority of sales reps have never even used a windows phone 7 thanks to the plague that was winmo.
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I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.

GnatGoSplat said:
I know a lot of WP7 enthusiasts and blogs like to blame the sales reps, but I don't think sales reps are solely responsible for the 36% market gap.
I do have an HTC Surround I've been playing with, and you're right, it has no lag, but I honestly haven't seen anything that would make me choose it over iOS or Android. Probably the only thing I would miss is the cool XBox Live avatar guy I made.
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I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.

z33dev33l said:
I guess it's to each their own. I like functionality, a smooth UI, and hardware selection. The office and xbox programs on mango are great, overall I think the only reason I ever enjoyed android was because I got to spend so much time screwing around.
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Don't underestimate how much people like to screw around. I think that's the whole reason XDA exists in the first place.

A lot of people are surprised Microsoft is doing this, but truth be told this is nothing new. Intel licenses out their instruction sets such as sse2, sse3, 3D Now! to Amd, nvidia, and Via. Companies do this all the time.

I wanted to like Microsoft, because hey, that's where all my stuff is (I'm an MS developer by trade as well). BUT, they fell short. Waaay short. Navigation, Voice commands, multitasking, the list was endless.
I have a few XBoxes and almost everything in my house is Windows based, but the phone won't sell me until I can firmly say: "I miss nothing on Android that I use every day."

Microsoft's offers to webOS devs

Don't know if anyone's heard but apparently Microsoft is taking full advantage of webOS's fall. They are offer development free tools, phones and etc. Wow they waste no time.
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_o...nd_training_to_webos_developers-news-3026.php

DroidFreek said:
Don't know if anyone's heard but apparently Microsoft is taking full advantage of webOS's fall. They are offer development free tools, phones and etc. Wow they waste no time.
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_o...nd_training_to_webos_developers-news-3026.php
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Tell me about it. I do respect them on what their doing. Great devs lose their jobs, so they're up for grabs.

Microsofts making all the right moves.

Exactly, playing it smart.

Agree, smart move, but Android won't lose market share easily..

Only a plus to Microsoft.

yukinok25 said:
Agree, smart move, but Android won't lose market share easily..
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Oh not at all. Microsoft has a long way to go to catch up with the Android and Apple.
Honestly I feel the only reason Microsoft is down in the smartphone game is because
1- They don't advertise as much
2- They don't have a radically new WP7 that draws users to the phone
3- If they bundled their phones with computer sales, it would allow customers to easily jump into the os.
If they saw those three points and worked on them, it would send them up there with the big boys.

Problem is every court hates ms for integrating software into windows; you think giving away a basic phone with every dell will ease those tensions? Unfortunately, ms can't get away with the crap apple does with every pc, ipod, iphone and ipad.
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App

russ18uk said:
Problem is every court hates ms for integrating software into windows; you think giving away a basic phone with every dell will ease those tensions? Unfortunately, ms can't get away with the crap apple does with every pc, ipod, iphone and ipad.
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App
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That's understandable. Still, it then goes back to advertising. It seems as if MS wants people to magically know about their devices.
I've only seen a commercial for the Surround about 5 times and that was it.

I'd be so pissed if I was a webOS developer. Excited to see more/better apps for Windows Phone.

but with this microsoft did a step forward, it could help to get some DEVs but i dont think that it will get better then GOOGLE OS

I had a palm treo as my first smart phone and it ran windows. it was terrible.. I'm sure they have gotten better, but that phone gave me a sour opinion on windows phones.. not so good then probably not so good now.. but it does make me curious to playing with a windows phone next time im at a best buy or other retail store with one on display..

Windows phones, just like android, are at their full potential when custom roms are created. I think if they were more devs into the os it could compete.

Why get off one sinking ship to get on another sinking ship?

"Why get off one sinking ship to get on another sinking ship?" vetvito
you think Mango will sink?

No money to be made there, just like WebOS. You get customers first, the devs will follow.

Microsoft should come back. Competition keeps the others sharp.

I kind of pity all of those developers who spent months developing for WebOS only to have it be trashed.

1.2 billion down the drain....
...wow just read up on all the money hp used to buy and develop webOS that number was just for the purchase of Palm inc.

Apple VS Samsung

It's looking very dim for samsung at this point. My overall observation is how big of a blow would this win if Apple wins be to the Android OS?
http://allthingsd.com/20120806/iphone-caused-crisis-of-design-at-samsung-memo/

Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?

blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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That can't handle that "beast".
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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+1

with all respect to the late Steven P. Jobs, apple had a huge problem with people copying interfaces, and this is more of a Jobs thing.
If you look at the history of the company based in the Jobs biography, it has always had problems with competitors copying them, but seems like this time is the first time that they feel the leverage to pursue legal action.
I for one am seeing this as apple being completely ugly and childish, and it certainly has changed the way that I look at them and their products.

It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.

mustbepbs said:
It also doesn't help that Samsung seems hell bent on losing this case. Most things they've done so far have either pissed off the Judge or made themselves look like idiots.
I don't know what street corner they got their lawyers from, but they need to seriously consider getting some new ones.
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Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.

Mark930 said:
screw apple I love their Macs but they really need to lay off android and stop trying to be the one and only mobile os there is nothing wrong with a little compitition. I will never buy another ios device because off all apples BS
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Last I checked, the US still has anti-monopoly laws in place. Will it deter their dominance quest? Of course not. What can we do? What we already do: support and run Android! Plus, without apple, these forums would be overrun with idiots asking what the extra physical buttons do and demanding to know why they didn't receive a gingerbread and frozen yogurt sandwich covered in jelly beans and cupcake frosting with their device purchase
Super SGS3, Away!!
SCH-I535.10, Beans custom stock build 6

stevenjcampbell said:
Perhaps this is a cultural divide.
It seems to me this legal battle is being fought on Apple's home turf.
Of course, I live in the USA.
I believe the justice system is impartial to a certain degree but South Korean companies do business differently (every country does) and their behavior from the get go I would agree seems a little uncouth.
Releasing the images of the prototypes to the media was a bad idea. I haven't kept up on the case as much as I would like but seems they don't get that they should play nice in court.
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I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.

Sccrluk9 said:
I think it was a good idea. Piss off the judge and if she shows that shes pissed and thus bias in court you get a mistrial and can get an easy appeal thus showing that evidence in court.
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I think you are right. This will definitely go to appeal. Chances are that Samsung will get whatever judgement suspended until its worked its way through the system. This case is very hotly contested and I can see it making it to the Supreme Court.

blackguy101 said:
Well here is the thing. If they are mainly suing over android features how come apple just does not go after google?
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Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.

Yeah, this is looking bad.
They don't sue Google because it's Samsung that allegedly infringed on their patents. They copied the form-factor, they copied the icons. The form-factor is less of an issue - I think they will win on that. A flat touchscreen in a square body is basically the only design you could use for a touch-centric OS. But the icons, and that document that came out today, oh God...
It is depressing that in the gigantic tech space, there really is no company besides Apple that has the user-centric design culture to make what is essentially a perfect device for the vast majority of users. They have copied, and will copy, but the difference is Apple is innovative in a way that Samsung and Google simply are not. Google is too geek-and-tech centric to do what Apple does. They love hacking. They love making phones people can hack. They are like us Android fans, they love customizability, and so they don't pay attention to the details that would make Android a perfect OS for mobile devices, because, in their world they WANT people to customize and add their own flair. They want people to be like them. And a lot of us are like that, we love it. I love it. But that's a minority. Most people want an appliance and a perfectly engineered system to play Angry Birds in.
iOS is designed just as a simple vehicle for launching apps for the most part. Android is designed to be a bit more than that. In any case they chose to use the Microsoft strategy of just getting the OS out there instead of making a device that would be a perfect synergy of hardware and software. And Samsung is just a consumer electronics company, making cookie-cutter devices for the most part. They are trying, I'll admit, but it's all half-assed. S-Voice is almost useless, they bring nothing special to Android with TouchWiz, the gestures are nice but really just gimmicky. And if they do come up with something absolutely original, they need to bring the fight to Apple, who will no doubt copy really useful features like voice-activation for the camera. And they probably won't...
There is no chance of monopoly issues as long as Android is as successful as it is. I remain convinced Android's biggest problem is there are simply not enough developers in the world interested in Android. There are numerous technical and economic reasons why Android does not have the apps and the polished apps we deserve. I fear, just as PC software was essentially Microsoft's domain for so many years, the next 15 years will be defined by the mobile space being iOS' domain. There simply isn't the justification for developers to work on Android as much, just as most PC software development was for Windows, not Macs back in the '90s...
I think Samsung will get hard...maybe it will be enough to startle them into innovation, but frankly, Asian companies do not have a great history of it. The last great consumer device to be invented in Asia was Sony's Walkman, and that was 30 years ago.
Face it, we have PCs. But PCs without the appbase. A few of us are enthusiasts, water-cooling and overclocking and have 3 screens. That's the XDA crowd, the hackers, the ROMers, the developers and themers. But the vast majority of Android users are downmarket folks who couldn't afford an iPhone but wanted to check their email and browse the web.

piiman said:
Why is that so damning? All I see is what any CEO should do and that is look at the competition and see what you have to do to compete with them?
I'll bet there is a memo like that in every mobile phone company's CEO email somewhere. You have to look at the competition, especially when they make something so different and game changing, and change directions and you have to communicate that some how.
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I agree. Maybe I'm not seeing the context, but it sure just reads like he's pushing his developers to come up with better products, which is what he should be doing.

I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate

marsonist said:
I understand that my sentiments will belong to the minority here, but the fact that we like certain aspects of android phones better than certain aspects of various iPhones doesn't change Apple's claims.
The court case isn't about a rectangular phone with rounded corners or rounded-square green phone icons, it's about the entirety of the widget. If any one of Apples claims were made on its own, the case would have long since been thrown out. We can't become so jaded by the ubiquity of the iPhone in 2012 to remember how vastly different, unique, and mind blowing it was in 2007. You will see by my profile here that, A) I don't post a whole heck of a lot, B) I was using touch screen XDA devices years before the iPhone came out, and C) after the iPhone came out, I dropped off the face of the xda-developers world. Not because I was an Apple fan-boy... but because they brought a product to market that it took competitors many years to try and catch up with. Phones of that day were slow, the interfaces were buggy and unintuitive. We had never seen a mobile OS interface that was designed from the ground up to be used without a stylus.
While we love to think that swipe to unlock, pinch to zoom and pages of horizontally scrolled square icons, touch screen predictive thumb keyboards are common place and should be fair game for all. I'm thinking that many forgot that there were a couple of years where there was only one show in town with those features.
I currently own a SGS3, I love it, but the very foundation of that phone (and almost all android phones) is built off of the bricks that Apple laid. You want to see someone who didn't wholesale steal the iPhone's groove? Look at Nokia, or Microsoft. (One might also note, that they haven't been doing all that great.) Someone has to be ill informed, disingenuous, or nearly blind to say that the smartphones of today look more like the non-iPhones of 2007 than the iPhone of 2007.
I would love for Apple to be wrong. I love their products, but I love competition better. The fact is, though, that wholesale theft and regurgitation of another company's product is not truly competition. Rather than defending Samsung or cursing Apple, we should be demanding that our devices be more than just half hearted clones.
//signed Devil's Advocate
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I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.

we

kishin14 said:
I think calling the S3 a half hearted clone is doing both the Android OS and the strides that Android hardware makers have made over the past several years a disservice. I love competition too. But I also believe it is in full force here. Competition is why the S3 is light years better than my first Android device, the Droid X. Competition is why the S3 is the fastest, smoothest and least buggy Android device I've owned. I agree that the iPhone was a ground breaking device that set the standard for all smartphones. But when I see just how far the Android ecosystem has advanced in just the past two years I can't help but be impressed. Two year ago (July 2010) I waited in line for the Droid X. It had Froyo, which was obviously inferior to iOS 3.0, which was on iPhone devices at that time. I have now moved on to the S3 with ICS. The difference is night and day -- almost beyond compare. This was made possible not only by vast improvements in the Android OS by Google but also because of vast improvements in the hardware designed to run it by smartphone makers such as Samsung and HTC. Also, if you really think the S3 is a half hearted clone, can I ask why you have one, why do you love it and what compelled you to switch from the iPhone? I'm not trying to sarcastic. I really would like to know. Thanks for listening to my two cents.
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Absolutely fare questions. I own an Android device because I am inherently a tinkerer. I have had every generation of iPhone with a brief lapse in 2009 when the OG Droid was released. (I say brief because I gave it away after three months.) The interface and primary functionality of iPhones is a well worn path. I decided that I'd like something that I can toy with more. The ability to tinker is not a feather in Samsung's cap, however, rather a more fundamental aspect of the Android core.
It is now 2012. Early Android phones left *a lot* to be desired. Newer devices are more stable and have a few neat features that the iPhone doesn't, yet, have. Would these devices have lasted long enough to say "We've got NFC first" if they hadn't spent four years walking in the iPhones footsteps? I don't think so.

It's really a stupid case in my opinion. I mean, yeah, Samung probably took the iPhone as an example when they developed the Galaxy line. So what? Does Apple want Samsung to make phones shaped in a triangle? Beds have looked pretty much the same bar some details but no-one is complaining about copyright infringement. If something makes an impact as big as the iPhone on society, how is it possible not to think of it when developing a phone after it's release?

I hope Apple wins the software side of the argument so then maybe Samsung will stop puking their TW over android and let Google deal with any legal **** that comes about.