I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.
Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..
The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA
I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.
chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?
Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.
Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L
Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.
Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app
rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)
That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.
jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.
Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.
awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!
I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Related
Now let me just say right here and now that I'm not a coder so hang with me. It seems to me that google has an issue with pirates (due to the blocking of paid apps for dev phones) until they create a better solution I was hoping somebody might create some kind of module that any dev could use to prevent and curb piracy. I know it's not a huge deal as there's really not that much out there for downloading paid .apk but there are some.
What I would do breaks down into two parts, preventing redistribution of the .apk and then nagging users who have an outdated version (as with download-copy-refund-reinstall). If you made the program run at the moment it was installed and pull and then archive a piece of unique info such as the phone number and then force the whole app to double check the internal archive to the actual phone number it would not only prevent the giving away of apps but archiving the initial release person's info to the dev.
Step two is to force a version check from the app to a sever that has the current version. If you made some kind of update (even if very so minor about once a month) and gave let's say a month so that you're not forcing folks to update that day you could then make the program "nag" a user into updating (that you cannot do if you didn't pay for it) and after some length of time have the program stop working at all.
Now yes it is work for something that may only cost .99 but if the anti-piracy measures were open source then you could not only retrofit an existing program but build new pirate proof apps.
Thoughts?
Both methods are still fairly easily crackable. Just like it's impossible to "DRM" game cd's, music, and video - preventing piracy of software is a very difficult and always flawed things.
You can make copy protection pretty decent but eventually it's all still very crackable. There is no 'good' copy protection. If Google is waiting until they do have a 'good' system for it - it will never happen.
And yes, I actually am a coder with commercial interests that are copy "protected". In the end the question is always if people find it valuable enough to purchase or their time invaluable enough to spend it on cracking these things.
How about release all your code under an open source license and get paid through donations?
I LOL'd! Seriously, if you ever went that route you'd know usually people hardly ever donate, at all. You'll be working for $0.01 an hour. That's ok if it's a hobby project, but bigger projects are just not feasable that way.
It also depends a lot on the community though. For example, I've made freeware tools for gameserver admins and got a lot of donations. I've made mods for games that practically every player used - and these were RCE games, so they cost $$$ - and the total of donations was less than $100 for 100's of hours of work. It depends on the situation, the crowd, how useful the software is, etc, but in the end it comes down to people being cheapskates, but in a weird way.
By 'in a weird way' I mean that it is rather strange that if you ask for donations, hardly anybody will donate $5, but if you were to charge $5, lots of people would purchase and not care about the $5.
Of course this is not true for everybody. Personally I try to donate to free projects that I use - and I know there are several people who also do this. But it's not the 'general public'.
this isnt an issue about open source vs charging for a product. Nobody is doing anything about piracy for this particular handset. it so easy to steal these apps, and if nothing is done to stay ahead of the curve then everyone suffers. do we have to wait till the average user figures it out, or till somebody makes a blog and/or a youtube post on how to release paid apps and that even non root users can pirate these in seconds?
one of two people need to step up, either the devs and try and be a step ahead of the crackers or what i imagine as widespread piracy and the degrading of all app quality.
some have said that people wont bother stealing a .99 app, but i disagree.
robotmaxtron said:
this isnt an issue about open source vs charging for a product. Nobody is doing anything about piracy for this particular handset. it so easy to steal these apps, and if nothing is done to stay ahead of the curve then everyone suffers. do we have to wait till the average user figures it out, or till somebody makes a blog and/or a youtube post on how to release paid apps and that even non root users can pirate these in seconds?
one of two people need to step up, either the devs and try and be a step ahead of the crackers or what i imagine as widespread piracy and the degrading of all app quality.
some have said that people wont bother stealing a .99 app, but i disagree.
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Well i believe chainfire answered the question already, there is nothing they can do. Are you a dev? The only ones suffering are the developers. Piracy is here and no one can really do anything about it. There are more important issues to deal with in the world then piracy. Look at smartphone files - cabs - wm, you dont have to pay for one of those anymore they are out there for the taking. How long have they been around? One look at their situation and its pretty clear nothing can be done.
ummm
piracy is nothing new.... piracy has been around since back on the commodore 64, i cant even explain how many shoebox's of 5 1/4" floppys of games. Pirating windows..... the first version ever. Theres no way to stop it, what is made can always be undone. The use of online connectivity is the only way to stop people from pirating software. Those "servers" are at the expense of the company that released the software. All installs have to have a "phone-home". Why do you think WifiRouter for WM (i think thats what its called) can never be cracked for more than a week. Because the serial numbers are registered in a database, and hardware id's and whatnots are sent regarding that individual phone. If more than a few of set "phones" with the serial number given is used. That serial is blacklisted and deactivated. The software checks for serial status everytime it loads. Very good way of using such software. But others are a little different, like programs that can be cracked using a serial number, but the program is in a site that normally wouldnt ever have acccess to internet (construction sites, etc.) Its just something that cant be stopped.....
p.s. http://tinyurl.com/dczb66 and you will realize what chainfire meant by ruin and destroying software due to copy protection
piracy done right
they need to stop trying to figure out how to solve the problem and just say there is no problem. there is no single "market" for software for my pc.... there will never be one for android. developers will never be comfortable trusting security they have no say so in. apps will come from all edges of the cloud and google is sadly mistaken if they think they can control it.
here is what they should do.. Nothing
Let the developers on their own find ways to secure their apps. wether it be a simple pin number or a log in. as developers make security hackers will break it, then the devs make more, its that cycle that made Linux work in the first place.
regardless of what google does people will start protecting their apk's
If you want to sell programs, do the following and you won't have a problem.
Don't worry about piracy (DRM, Copy Protection, etc)
Make a good product
Don't over-charge for the product
Be upfront with the support offerings
Offer a reasonable satisfaction guarantee if demo is not available
Trying to limit and stop piracy is a failing battle and will ultimately end up costing the developer in the long run.
I come from both sides of the track, i'm a pirate (aka lacking moral compass) and developer. When I come across good software at a reasonable price, I don't think twice about purchasing it.
You could do likesome programmers who sell their product online and on the market at the same time.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=487790
Thanks to the masterBaron I have this program on my dev phone and I live in france.
soundwire said:
How about release all your code under an open source license and get paid through donations?
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The Windows Mobile version of Klaxon has had around 200,000 downloads, and I have received less than $200 in donations. I spent several months on that project. Donationware/open source is does not work.
robotmaxtron said:
What I would do breaks down into two parts, preventing redistribution of the .apk and then nagging users who have an outdated version (as with download-copy-refund-reinstall). If you made the program run at the moment it was installed and pull and then archive a piece of unique info such as the phone number and then force the whole app to double check the internal archive to the actual phone number it would not only prevent the giving away of apps but archiving the initial release person's info to the dev.
Step two is to force a version check from the app to a sever that has the current version. If you made some kind of update (even if very so minor about once a month)....
Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
I'd rather my number not be freely given out.
This would also be a problem if my number changed, but I don't buy apps that force version checks / expire / phone home. If it's good enough I look for a copy cleansed of such behavior, while i'd buy a good app without that behavior and if its not locked to hardware/providers. Copy protection can backfire and drive off customers.
How about release all your code under an open source license and get paid through donations?
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Click to collapse
Although I have some open source projects this will never work... A lot of people just like to get everything for free and are actually upset when needed to pay 1€ for an application.
I have people send me like 20€ but this is a very rare case! I would be lucky to have at most one costless weekend of drinking in a month, but no way to actually make a living that way.
And if you look into the work put in to most open-source projects ( in terms of hours ) its better to just do 1% of that work for a boss and get payed a lot more. Ofcourse I love doing this and thats mainly the reason why I join open-source projects... Making some money is a nice aspect which "could" happen.
As for copy protection... Like cf stated... There isnt an uncrackable copy protection and if creating one takes up half of the time of your projects development how much good would it be in terms of earning money. Its not a copy-protection problem but its a mind-set problem... People just dont like paying for things they use everyday...
inpherno3 said:
piracy is nothing new.... piracy has been around since back on the commodore 64, i cant even explain how many shoebox's of 5 1/4" floppys of games. Pirating windows..... the first version ever. Theres no way to stop it, what is made can always be undone. The use of online connectivity is the only way to stop people from pirating software. Those "servers" are at the expense of the company that released the software. All installs have to have a "phone-home". Why do you think WifiRouter for WM (i think thats what its called) can never be cracked for more than a week. Because the serial numbers are registered in a database, and hardware id's and whatnots are sent regarding that individual phone. If more than a few of set "phones" with the serial number given is used. That serial is blacklisted and deactivated. The software checks for serial status everytime it loads. Very good way of using such software. But others are a little different, like programs that can be cracked using a serial number, but the program is in a site that normally wouldnt ever have acccess to internet (construction sites, etc.) Its just something that cant be stopped.....
p.s. http://tinyurl.com/dczb66 and you will realize what chainfire meant by ruin and destroying software due to copy protection
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Click to collapse
Bull****. WifiRouter or whatever it is could easily be cracked by using fake DNS servers, manually editing the servers to a custom, or bypassing the online checks completely.
Their system is crap, and any skilled cracker could defeat online checks in just a bit of work.
The only truly invincible copy protection I've seen are either hardware, or extremely internet based (something that relies on external servers so much that it's useless without them, such as MMOs). Hardware can be modded, and you can recreate the servers for internet based.
Gary13579 said:
Bull****. WifiRouter or whatever it is could easily be cracked by using fake DNS servers, manually editing the servers to a custom, or bypassing the online checks completely.
Their system is crap, and any skilled cracker could defeat online checks in just a bit of work.
The only truly invincible copy protection I've seen are either hardware, or extremely internet based (something that relies on external servers so much that it's useless without them, such as MMOs). Hardware can be modded, and you can recreate the servers for internet based.
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Or you could just remove the TPM (or Variant) requirements from the software like the Hackintosh version of OSX.
piracy won't ever be stoped.. might take a vbbit longer for some one to bypass it's protecting but it will always be cracked sooner or later
best thing u can do is.. as said before just make a good product be craeative, dont over-charge, people will buy it support you..
heck better is better to make 20 bucks thank nothing at all
Hey everyone,
Have you been annoyed lately with the maket? Like how alot of times when downloading apps just hangs? Or like how it takes down apps that are "against" carriers TOC? And takes 30% of the profits from devs for paid apps?
Well we just had this random idea yesterday and it was to make a new market...
This market will be for the community by the community.
Such as the ability to blacklist apps/devs..
And advanced searching...
etc...
Its called AppWire http://appwire.org (as you see the sites not made yet ;D )
We just had this idea yesterday so its still in its infant stage, so we still need all app dev's and web dev's we can get!
If you can't help with developement then feel free to post feature requests!
If you want help with development email me at aakashbpatel [at] gmail.com or look for us in the #appwire channel on freenode.
Thanks Everyone!
I think there's already something similar to this. Forgot its name though. But I do agree Google's policy of removing apps that violate *one* carrier's TOS is ridiculous.
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
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Blacklist apps ONLY if people vote to take it off...
Thanks
Aakash
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
nEx.Software said:
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
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I agree with you also, and I was looking at slidme's TOC's and it pretty muc said that they own your app if you publish it....and I didn't think it was right that they have the ability to do that.
So I wanted to make a market that everyones opinion matters and one that respects the app developers also.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
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Click to collapse
the blacklist would be custom to each person not market wide, like if I didnt want to see apps by "DEV A" ONLY I wouldn't see apps by DEV A, alls "99%" of the time, i think thats pushing it i must not use market often or maybe you are on the lucky side.
Its not that bad of an idea, if anyone has experience with ipod touch or iphone, it could be set up something like cydia. A user customizable market in which apps that the normal market wont allow are easier available and such. Though, the blacklist should be just like on a personal basis or not there at all as it would defeat the purpose of the whole thing for more freedom. I think thats kinda what he was suggesting, if so not to bad.
Great idea, totally support!
More options is better. And right now I don't know any "markets" where I can easily download wifi-tether for example. Plus the original market luck of web-interface and (really) many other features. So, for me an alternative market seems like a good idea. It just doesn't look for me like an easy project
there is another one but that one sucks!
this seems like a cool idea for hardcore root access apps and apps that people dont want googles paws on in general
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
I have no need for a new market, per se.
what I'd love to see is the ability for anyone and everyone to host their own apk repository and a more robust package management system on the device
apt, yum, emerge, port, w/e
anyone working on something like that? can I help?
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
bmfc187 said:
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TruLuvNvrDies said:
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tubaking182 said:
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you guys.
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1,500 bucks? I don't know why someone like these sound boards ? It's really suck. 1 buck for some sounds which I can get free from internet.
I agree. I would like to see Cydia ported to G1. I have been working on getting Apt running. The part I am not sure of is building a UI for it. This was easier on the iPhone because the apps like cydia were native and not in a vm like on Android.
Thanks for all the support guys....now all we need are some more developers...anyone wanna help us?
possibly available as web developer
I'm not sure where you need more help, phone vs. web development. I may be able to help out in either case though. you can contact me at [my.xda-devs.username]@gmail.com on google talk or by email.
As far as features/requests:
This should be 100% for non paid applications, IMO. I agree with other posters that it only hurts application distribution by adding a new paid app store. Especially because I think t-mobile's 30% is quite reasonable as a distribution cost.
Instead, this app should focus on delivering the type of software that people develop here on xda-devs.
I don't think you need to black list any developers. By only offering free applications through this market, you automatically get rid of most of that spam, and instead promote more sharing. Developers already have a good place to spam crappy applications for money. The purpose here should be for homebrew/expirimental applications and to promote more community hacking.
Keeping this application open source would definitely help with the "for the community by the community" mantra.
Just my two cents..
Best Regards,
Nick
I totally agree with the idea. But I think it would be difficult to implement paid apps because they are updated through the market.
I have no idea where this topic should go so im putting it here.
Ill start off by saying this: I'm a fifteen year old kid with no money, and sometimes I pirate apps. This isn't about piracy like where should i go for it etc. Because i know that is against the rules. I don't have any way to buy apps or i would, im poor and i don't have a credit or debit card to use. So devs aren't losing money by me pirating. And i know its wrong and i shouldn't do it. Its just the only way to get things sometimes.
If you're still reading and haven't already reported me, here is my story.
Last night i was just messing with my phone, playing games and talking to friends. My phone randomly rebooted and started going into a bootloop of sorts; it would start up and i could get to the homescreen but it was almost unresponsive and i was getting a lot of force closes. I couldn't figure out the issue so i did a backup and a data wipe, planning to restore from TitaniumBackup.
That's when i figured out the problem. My sD card had been completely wiped, all 14 gigs of music, videos, important documents, pictures, apps, everything. It was all gone and replaced with 1037 pictures of a penis with a smiley face drawn on it, captioned "**** you mobilism stop stealing from droidfanz" which i have no idea who mobilism is or what droidfanz is.
I ran recuva on the card hoping to find my files somehow but it only found 3000 more of the pictures along with lots of random pictures of porn and concerts and people jumping off of houses onto mattresses.
I guess im mostly making this thread as 1. A shoutout to mobilism, droidfanz, whoever else caused this to say, you're an ass. Piracy is wrong but there are lots of things you could do that aren't going to destroy my life by deleting all of my personal documents. If i had the ability to buy your apps then i would.
2. A notice to other people... Don't pirate. At least be careful because some developers would rather destroy you than just make it so you can't use their app or something.
That's it. Ban me if you want, i figured i should at least get this out there to warn people. Im going to be trying to restore my life for the next few days anyways.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Good you deserved this. You stole apps from devs which is like taking there life. It only seems fitting that a dev returns the favor. Hope you learned. Also invest in a pre load debt card so you can legitimately purchase apps. Being broke is not an excuse for piracy and sure as hell wouldn't stand in court. Look at it this way .99 cents for an app or thousands in fees cause you got caught pirating.
Sent from my futuristic phone
Wow, that's crazy.
Mobilism and Droidfanz are, to the best of my knowledge, warez sites.
Sounds like maybe Droidfaz people are loading files that look like applications, but really are malicious files over to Mobilism in some sort of a war.
Those malicious files could have been further distributed to wherever you go the file from.
I dont agree with you ironlood.
Firstly, fighting fire with fire is not a solution. If someone is doing something wrong, it does not mean that you should do something worse. Revenge is only allowed if it is equal, not worse than the original offence.
Secondly, the OP does not even know if this happened due to a rogue application by a Dev or some hacker at Droidfanz try to get back at mobilism. Its interesting looks like two underground piracy outfits clashing. (I dont know what these sites are, but thats what it sounds like).
I'm not saying piracy is allowed, but lets just not be too anal not to allow extenuating circumstances (although I am not saying this particular case is).
OP, next time stick to free apps only. There is nothing you cant live without.
Wow. I certainly don't pirate apps because I'm a faithful Android fan and truly appreciate the work of the developers. We give them hardly anything for their work so the spare change you pay now and again is well worth it. Sometimes I donate even more after I buy their apps.
That being said, I don't want any chance of this happening to my phone because I downloaded a rogue app that made it to the market or was shared in the community. If someone does that to me, I'll sue them only because I can't physically beat the f*** out of them.
You shouldn't pirate though, bro. Pirate from big corporations like Microsoft as they inflate their prices and can afford it. Don't pirate from the college student who's starving and worse off than you!
bongd said:
Wow. I certainly don't pirate apps because I'm a faithful Android fan and truly appreciate the work of the developers. We give them hardly anything for their work so the spare change you pay now and again is well worth it. Sometimes I donate even more after I buy their apps.
That being said, I don't want any chance of this happening to my phone because I downloaded a rogue app that made it to the market or was shared in the community. If someone does that to me, I'll sue them only because I can't physically beat the f*** out of them.
You shouldn't pirate though, bro. Pirate from big corporations like Microsoft as they inflate their prices and can afford it. Don't pirate from the college student who's starving and worse off than you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol Its like saying steal from the RICH they won't mind it!
Piracy Is Piracy.
But please don't give me the crap that all of you guys are saints...YOU ARE NOT!
@OP That was a very peculiar "virus". The thing i don't understand that doesn't a virus NOT need superuser permissions(ROOT) to access your system??
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
And that wasn't done by the developer. You caught a Trojan...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Did you know that if you walked in a store and stole a shirt, you would get arrested? I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't matter if you were rich or poor and whether or not you could afford it. You got what you deserved.
edisso10018 said:
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. You obviously could afford to buy apps if you wanted to, you just don't want to because you can get them for free.
Just for the sake of conversation.
Why is it ok to violate your TOS as well as abuse your carrier by getting around their bandwidth usage requirements and tethering options but piracy off applications is wrong?
Who decides what is right and wrong in this situation? The danger to android isn't merely fragmentation, it is the wild west nature of open source and whether developers will continue to contribute at such a rate knowing that there is no law or protection in place to keep their work as financially viable.
These are topics that android will have to deal with and sort whether it is by google or by the community coming to some sort of developer support agreement.
Really is neat watching an industry find its way. I just hope it doesn't get lost in the process.
thanks for sharing about your misfortunes and hopefully you learned from it! Best of luck!
edisso10018 said:
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
And that wasn't done by the developer. You caught a Trojan...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't ridiculous. More like my parents saved up to my me a phone as a birthday present, it was free with the special Christmas deal from US Cellular and it came with the card. Both the phone and card were actually free for my parents to buy and were a birthday present for me, we're just paying for the plan and I still have no money to buy apps.
backwoods99 said:
Just for the sake of conversation.
Why is it ok to violate your TOS as well as abuse your carrier by getting around their bandwidth usage requirements and tethering options but piracy off applications is wrong?
Who decides what is right and wrong in this situation? The danger to android isn't merely fragmentation, it is the wild west nature of open source and whether developers will continue to contribute at such a rate knowing that there is no law or protection in place to keep their work as financially viable.
These are topics that android will have to deal with and sort whether it is by google or by the community coming to some sort of developer support agreement.
Really is neat watching an industry find its way. I just hope it doesn't get lost in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. All the people telling me I deserved it.... yeah you are probably right, I shouldn't have done it but you can't say I'm taking money from the dev because no matter what he isn't going to get money from me because I don't have any to give.
And I'm sure you've all stolen music or used a tethering app or something that isn't legal.
sageDieu said:
And I'm sure you've all stolen music or used a tethering app or something that isn't legal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get a job. You had this coming, as far as I'm concerned.
The whole penis thing might be a little extreme but i guess you deserved it.
What comes around goes around, you steal apps and now you lost everything. Being broke is not an excuse for being a douch-bag and stealing apps. I don't think telling a judge I was broke so I stole it would be a good defense. Not to mention you "stole" an item that is not something you need to live like stealing food not that that is ok either. I hope this was a lesson learned.
sageDIEU, fair play to you for openly telling your story.. you've probably learnt your lesson anyway now, although your reasons are more than dubious (still doesn't make it right in my opinion, just because I've not got the money now or ever to buy a ferrari, doesn't mean I can just go and pinch one)
The only issue I have, is that some developers expect you to pay for a product that has no decent demo. There's plenty of people producing crap apps for android and other OS's and expecting money for it. I've already paid for quite a few apps that have turned out to be a complete waste of money. I'd rather try an app (by whatever means) and then I'll gladly pay the developer for his work if it's a good product, if it's not, it doesn't stay on my phone and the developer won't get my dough.
Just about everyone uses a hacked app for whatever reason in their life. I don't judge anyone for doing so, but you should never ever keep important files on just 1 storage location. You can always lose/break it.
Learn from this!
Try searching for undelete/unformat software. Maybe you will be able to recover some of it. Good luck..
adhikarb said:
lol Its like saying steal from the RICH they won't mind it!
Piracy Is Piracy.
But please don't give me the crap that all of you guys are saints...YOU ARE NOT!
@OP That was a very peculiar "virus". The thing i don't understand that doesn't a virus NOT need superuser permissions(ROOT) to access your system??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Corporations rob consumers, they're the only ones I would not feel bad about when it comes to pirating. I don't need commercial apps from huge corps most of the time though, outside of an OS. There are usually freeware versions which are better and have direct support from the developer. I'd rather have a free app with customizations and bug fixes from direct developer correspondence than a commercial app from a huge corp in most cases. Wouldn't you?
And **** off with the saint comment. I'm not elitist. I just think if a hard working Joe does a good job, I'd rather commend him instead of some money grubbing corporation. This is a tight community. And would you rather give a friend money or a stranger money? I'd rather give a friend money, any day of the week. Especially if they've developed an app that I use EVERY SINGLE DAY and only paid a dollar or two for!!!!
You guys are so ****ing cheap. End of story. I hope your phones get hacked. There's absolutely no reason to ***** about a dollar or two here and there for an app that you'll use day in, day out.
All of you people giving analogies of 'pirating' with 'stealing' do not know what an IP is. That analogy is WRONG.
Also, you really think rooting your phone and installing custom roms is not a violation?
hav0c said:
Just about everyone uses a hacked app for whatever reason in their life. I don't judge anyone for doing so, but you should never ever keep important files on just 1 storage location. You can always lose/break it.
Learn from this!
Try searching for undelete/unformat software. Maybe you will be able to recover some of it. Good luck..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, and I doubt you were punished by the developper you stole apps from.
You should really be carefull on what you install, especially on those uncontrolled warez sites.
http://ashleyesqueda.com/private/HdniCFAkDv
What pisses me off as mentioned is the fact that you have to install a software update WITH the skin intact and updated as well. I don't like how this delays the time the update takes to get pushed, I don't like how this oftentimes turns me off from using the damn skin, and I most definitely don't like the fact that I have to install it to get perks. It's a trap!! The whole update BS is what drove me (and many others) to root their Legends in the first place. This is absolute crap!
And yeah, I'm against a locked bootloader as with everybody here on XDA. It's not just the custom skins being reverted to plain stock or similar, it's the extra "feel-good" things you can do with it unlocked.
Thoughts on the rant?
Google's in it to make money? What a shock(!)
They're a company, not a charity.
Google is also about spreading it's monoply.
And they're better at it than At%t
Yeah Google is in it for money all company's are, money makes the world go around nowadays so that's what they do. As far as the ads part, that's how they make their money that's how they always have, but you don't see ads floating around when you use your phone just in apps that you download form the marketplace. However, the OS is open, like any other Linux base, allowing people to customize it and thus making Google sit back and see what devs can do with it and integrating what the devs are bringing to the table and seeing what people like (free user studys). Its genius on their part especially to push it to the masses that don't know what they're doing and have no idea what it even means when you say "root." I've always enjoyed Linux and its openness so I will continue to support Android.
Agree with rant.
Yeah, it's the nerds that want this, but the normals don't consider the why.
And the why is these devices are not phones.
They are tiny computers.
And it's pretty terrible that I can change the OS on my other, not-so-tiny computer whenever I want to, but I'm stuck with whatever the manufacturer of a given device forces upon me?
I'm not even sure I like the fact that my smartphone is limited to Android only.
I envision a day sometime in the future where smartphones are treated as tiny computers by everyone--including the manufacturers. Where you can buy barebones smartphones from the manufacturers without a preinstalled OS and pick your poison!
Of course Apple would never play ball with this--they don't even do so on their not-so-tiny computers--but wouldn't it be sweet to pick up the latest HTC superphone and then think to yourself...
... do I want Android, MeeGo, Windows Phone... or whatever other mobile OSes might exist at the time?
That's true openness now, but smartphones are in their infancy, and too many people still think of them as just very fancy phones.
Google's true purpose is to take over the world!
The main purpose of ANY company, is to MAKE MONEY, so the top-level execs can enjoy a huge cushy corner office, drive a company Mercedes S-class, own a Bentley for personal use, host extravagant parties on their yacht, visit France on weekends in the private jet, live in a house so big there are rooms they've never set foot in, and still have enough to pay for private security, butler, maid, and nanny for the rugrats. Accomplishing this goal for Google includes ads, and for manufacturers, includes customization for product differentiation and locked bootloaders to reduce losses from warranty/support claims.
In a way, it's the lax rules of "open" Android which has allowed manufacters to customize however they see fit.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the fact that this woman is interested enough in technology to even bother ranting about Google, Android, and secured bootloaders, is a total turn on?
All companies give something away then, start changing the game, the problem with All phone companies is soon we will have devices that will allow us to load whatever we want, (we do that with dual boot now) this will become the standard, probably take 3-5 years before it is mainstream. But, like everyone else said Google just wants to make money. and have secure market position.....
..... duh.....
google is a company ..... where the strangeness?
GnatGoSplat said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the fact that this woman is interested enough in technology to even bother ranting about Google, Android, and secured bootloaders, is a total turn on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... hey, not everyone here is a guy, you know!
... and yet I still agree!
Moral of the story- Companies like money to further themselves.
Step666 said:
Google's in it to make money? What a shock(!)
They're a company, not a charity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree.Google is a company,not a charity.
LOL GOogle wasnt made so people can happily search away
It was made with the purpose of making money... who would spend thousands of dollars doing otherwise.
PS. "Google is a company, not a charity" <---Egg-sactly.
I completely disagree with the whole "stock skin is awesome!" thing. I personally dislike the stock Android theme, and it was one of the reasons I disliked CM7 to begin with, until I found Honeybread.
The stock Galaxy S theme is my favorite theme I've seen so far.
I agree with synaesthetic's vision. Would be amazing if we could dual boot operating systems on any smartphone too.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
sales are UP
Google also gives all your personal data (contacts included, and all their data) to it's subsidiaries. thus bypassing Google's own privacy policies, and this is perfectly legal.
they then make a big tree showing your surfing habits, your friends and families. what u eat and drink and what movies you watch, what news you are interested in your political affiliation !
the more info they have on you the more you are worth to them.
both for their own adds and the more you are worth when they sell your info through their subsidiaries!
like i said this is all perfectly legal. because it's subsidiaries do not have the same privacy policies as the parent company! in this case Google!
why do u think they want to get into the internet service providing business (ISP)? More INFO!
now they have u using their OS, their web-browser, their app store, their email, google maps (to see where u go and what u eat) even down to what streets u use and how long u spend at each place!
the amount of info they have on u is mind blowing
why do u think they are trying to pass a bill in congress on how (and how much) these companies collect info on you!
it will never pass. but it shows you even members of congress are concerned about the points i made above!
so I'm not just talking out of my behind OR a conspiracy nut. it cant even be a conspiracy if it wanted to because the info i right out in the open for anyone who cares enough to look for it,
the companies even Google are not trying to hide anything
food for thought next time u turn on your Google
Ric H. (a1yet)
.
synaesthetic said:
... hey, not everyone here is a guy, you know!
... and yet I still agree!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...there are girls here...!
QUOTE of the day is
deeking2 said:
...there are girls here...!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QUOTE of the day is
...there are girls here...!
LOL
Nothing illegal is happening here. They're an American business. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
synaesthetic said:
smartphones are in their infancy, and too many people still think of them as just very fancy phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So true...so very true.
JL
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
z33dev33l said:
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
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lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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You are absolutely right my friend.even though I know where I can find those pirated stuff I bought talking tom, fruit ninja, file downloader plus from the market.respect you in this aspect that people pay
jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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well I'm on wp7 I i understand paying for apps. I've bought 13 Xbox live titles. Robo defense though has been around since my g1 was still a big device, pirating android apps didn't really start til after the Verizon droid came out and android went mainstream, sure it was there but it wasn't so easy. My stepmom could not navigate Facebook on her computer but she knows how to pirate apps, its made too easy. When I paid 9.99 for zenonia the day it came out and my friend pirated it for free 3 days I i was pretty peeved. These things are just far too easy on android and right now I'm considering if it's worth porting my new RPG over to android or not...
Are you trying to say that you cant pirate wp7 apps? Or that wp7 users have better morals than us droids?
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
When I was a young poor student I was going to the torrent sites for all the software i use. Today i use linux at home( i'd buy a legal os otherwise) and buy all my apps from the market.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App
aFo3262 said:
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
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Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
I guess because the majority of users will stay pay for a game or app that they want.
It's the same with PC software and games...many people crack and download them for free, but the majority will still pay for them.
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
rogier666 said:
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
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And yet people are still making computer programs.
To some developers the trade off is worth it even when you factor in piracy. Look at how many indie games don't have drm making an app is pretty much the same. There are enough people who will buy the app to make a living off of
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ok, that is very interesting
dardragon said:
And yet people are still making computer programs.
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Of course.
Piracy is just a bit of background noise. Most pirates wouldn't have bought the app anyway.
What I get from the people around me, is that if the app is good enough or do fit their needs, they're willing to pay for it.
I like to see it this way:
When I get hungry I go to a vending machine a buy let say a Mars or something for 1 euro.
When I'm bored and I have to wait for a few minutes, I look on the android market and buy a funny game for about that same amount of money.
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
An app is not a Mars bar.
Candy bars are not free. If you want a Nuts or a Bounty instead of a Mars you'll still have to pay.
For every paid app there's a free alternative. Usually there are many free alternatives, and the market has a built-in feature to find the free beer.
The Android Market has a "related apps" link. What other markets force their merchants to provide free advertising for their competitors in their very own market stall?
Tricky-Design said:
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
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Spot on.
Ive paid for damn near every app on my phone. I appreciate the work and am more than willing to contribute. And still, all in all, ive spent maybe 15bucks total in the past 4months. Seriously, apps are one of the more affordable ( and not to mention hella convenient) luxuries in this day and age(and in this economy).
Try and go see a movie these days? How much?
Go buy a board game at wal- mart? How much?
Go to the arcade? (if you can find one anymore) how much?
Go buy a book at books a million? How much?
xaccers said:
Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
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Click to collapse
you should really look at the general profit margins from OS to OS, even your average developer makes more on wp7 than android because as someone already stated, there's a free version of pretty much everything on android and what's not can be pirated. Then there's the fragmentation for every app that was made for 2.1 plus. Sure, you CAN pirate on wp7, its a long, complex process that doesn't work fully on Xbl games and actually requires some knowledge, its not androids out-of-box pirating or iOSes one click jailbreak with everything done for you. Its the only OS that adds some level of complexity to doing such things and that little bit is more than enough for your average user.
Next OS ; WHY CANT I MAKE AS MUCH ON WP7 APPS random_os001 makes more WAHHHH
(YEAR OR TWO LATER~!) RANDOM_os002 WAS RELEASED (os001 sorry ur gonna lose money now unless u try to stick with the pack.)