Hey everyone,
Have you been annoyed lately with the maket? Like how alot of times when downloading apps just hangs? Or like how it takes down apps that are "against" carriers TOC? And takes 30% of the profits from devs for paid apps?
Well we just had this random idea yesterday and it was to make a new market...
This market will be for the community by the community.
Such as the ability to blacklist apps/devs..
And advanced searching...
etc...
Its called AppWire http://appwire.org (as you see the sites not made yet ;D )
We just had this idea yesterday so its still in its infant stage, so we still need all app dev's and web dev's we can get!
If you can't help with developement then feel free to post feature requests!
If you want help with development email me at aakashbpatel [at] gmail.com or look for us in the #appwire channel on freenode.
Thanks Everyone!
I think there's already something similar to this. Forgot its name though. But I do agree Google's policy of removing apps that violate *one* carrier's TOS is ridiculous.
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blacklist apps ONLY if people vote to take it off...
Thanks
Aakash
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
nEx.Software said:
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you also, and I was looking at slidme's TOC's and it pretty muc said that they own your app if you publish it....and I didn't think it was right that they have the ability to do that.
So I wanted to make a market that everyones opinion matters and one that respects the app developers also.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the blacklist would be custom to each person not market wide, like if I didnt want to see apps by "DEV A" ONLY I wouldn't see apps by DEV A, alls "99%" of the time, i think thats pushing it i must not use market often or maybe you are on the lucky side.
Its not that bad of an idea, if anyone has experience with ipod touch or iphone, it could be set up something like cydia. A user customizable market in which apps that the normal market wont allow are easier available and such. Though, the blacklist should be just like on a personal basis or not there at all as it would defeat the purpose of the whole thing for more freedom. I think thats kinda what he was suggesting, if so not to bad.
Great idea, totally support!
More options is better. And right now I don't know any "markets" where I can easily download wifi-tether for example. Plus the original market luck of web-interface and (really) many other features. So, for me an alternative market seems like a good idea. It just doesn't look for me like an easy project
there is another one but that one sucks!
this seems like a cool idea for hardcore root access apps and apps that people dont want googles paws on in general
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
I have no need for a new market, per se.
what I'd love to see is the ability for anyone and everyone to host their own apk repository and a more robust package management system on the device
apt, yum, emerge, port, w/e
anyone working on something like that? can I help?
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
bmfc187 said:
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TruLuvNvrDies said:
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tubaking182 said:
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you guys.
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1,500 bucks? I don't know why someone like these sound boards ? It's really suck. 1 buck for some sounds which I can get free from internet.
I agree. I would like to see Cydia ported to G1. I have been working on getting Apt running. The part I am not sure of is building a UI for it. This was easier on the iPhone because the apps like cydia were native and not in a vm like on Android.
Thanks for all the support guys....now all we need are some more developers...anyone wanna help us?
possibly available as web developer
I'm not sure where you need more help, phone vs. web development. I may be able to help out in either case though. you can contact me at [my.xda-devs.username]@gmail.com on google talk or by email.
As far as features/requests:
This should be 100% for non paid applications, IMO. I agree with other posters that it only hurts application distribution by adding a new paid app store. Especially because I think t-mobile's 30% is quite reasonable as a distribution cost.
Instead, this app should focus on delivering the type of software that people develop here on xda-devs.
I don't think you need to black list any developers. By only offering free applications through this market, you automatically get rid of most of that spam, and instead promote more sharing. Developers already have a good place to spam crappy applications for money. The purpose here should be for homebrew/expirimental applications and to promote more community hacking.
Keeping this application open source would definitely help with the "for the community by the community" mantra.
Just my two cents..
Best Regards,
Nick
I totally agree with the idea. But I think it would be difficult to implement paid apps because they are updated through the market.
Related
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, i already did a quick google search and didn't find anything...
But i was just thinking, there are always great apps that i find honestly every week on XDA, mostly because they're just burried under pages, or maybe dont have the same wild popularity that ifart does. But does anyone else think it'd be a great idea if we could maybe somehow take donations from XDA users, and then use this money to register XDA as a developer on the Microsofts upcoming Marketplace store? Maybe it could be turned into something where we the users actually vote which applications should be submitted on a weekly or montly basis. I just think there's so many great apps on XDA that it'd be a great way to get them, and xda-devs as well, some exposure. I'm sure there's lots of people on XDA that have developed great apps whether they be keyboards, or scroll modification tools, or other utilities that may not want to spend 99 bucks and dont think they will actually develop 6 apps.
Chime in guys, i dunno if i'm crazy...but i think it might be a good idea.
I suspect that the first major hurdle would be this:
You are able to download so many great apps from XDA-Devs because they are generally free, and that is why people are allowed to post them here. If they were not free, I am pretty sure they can no longer be advertised on XDA-Devs, correct me if I am wrong.
So if there was a way to recoupe the $99 join fee when all people are doing is offering free apps and taking no profit, them I am sure people would be willing to consider it. I also believe that after you have uploaded six apps, then it is another $99 for every app after, no?
It is a good idea, and deserves some thought, I just can't think of how to make it viable. XDA is popular enough that if there was a way to make money from it, it would have made its own marketplace
In many nag lists on negatives on the hd2 (or WM (65)) one mentions the Lack of Applications compared to Android or Iphone.
The challengers argue that the mass of iphone apps are doubles tripples quads.....etc.
in an attempt to make things concrete; Let's list what apps are really missing?
Games with quality
Fun and small games, ex: Angry Birds
Tunewiki
Layar
Wikitude
And a few mores
ditg said:
in an attempt to make things concrete; Let's list what apps are really missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Dropbox
2. Viper Smart Start
3. Quality fun quick games to play when you're bored.
4. Lots of other things I can't think of right now..
Sports score something that can give u in real time NFL, Baseball, Basketball, NCAA, scores in real time with score boxes etc Sportacular comes to mind
Something to track UPS, USPS, Fedex packages (Deliveries on iPhone for example)
Tip calculator
Something similar to qTweeter where it allows you to update facebook/tweeter
Before anybody calls me an Apple fanboy I love my HD2. I came from an iphone 2g/3G 16 gig and will never go back but it is lacking a few apps!
It really is. I hate how everyone refuses to acknowledge and do anything about this (both Microsoft and HTC). Fact is, I just think either the programming part of it or business part of it just fails to impress any of the programmers. They decided to either do iPhone apps or Android apps. NOW Windows is coming out with WM7, a new way or programs and it's just throwing a wrench into the system of all the past windows mobile phones. Seriously, who monitors this **** and just says "it's ok, do it".
i love my hd2 more than my iphone just because of the big screen... but its lacking of apps is a major letdown...
ditg said:
In many nag lists on negatives on the hd2 (or WM (65)) one mentions the Lack of Applications compared to Android or Iphone.
The challengers argue that the mass of iphone apps are doubles tripples quads.....etc.
in an attempt to make things concrete; Let's list what apps are really missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP... you are looking at it entirely wrong.. its not about what specific apps it is missing....its about being able to get a specific app at any given time whenever it is that i please.... The Apple Store and Android Open Source Market provides this... Whereas Windows fails sooo hard in that category... There really is no argument... and anyone that defends windows position in this... is either EXTREMELY easily satisfied (like 5 yr old satisfied) or just so blind and ignorrant that they fail to see the obvious truth...
i happen to be one of the users that go onto the windows market and other markets thats surfaced on my hd2 and simply "browse" for cool/ interesting apps that might be fun to check out or play with... I rarely go in with a direct set on initiative to download a specific app... nor do i know of any that does so... its usually browsing the selection.. and that is what we are all talking about... the selection... being able to download something whenever it is we feel like it..
yea??
please don't bring something like this up again in these forums... its bad enough that as a windows mobile user and FAN, you make me go and praise the opposing OS's... but i'm not arrogant to facts... i simply tell it like it is...
dismissed
ok, i'll remember that a next time i have a topic, i have to ask for your ideas first.
DennisCSUF said:
Tip calculator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a couple of these on Marketplace, best one for me being ezytip; more than does the job... Otherwise I agree with everyone else, apps are missing no question about that.
I think ditg asks a very reasonable (good) question. The answers some people come up with are -don't take this personally- pathetic. All I read is there's a lack of games, apps that actually ARE on the market (tip calculator for instance, how many do you want?) and 'and lots of other stuff'. You have to look further than just Marketplace. There are many sites on the internet that offer apps, free or not.
The only real difference as I see it, is that IPhone apps are aggregated to one place namely ITunes whereas WM apps are all over the place though XDA probably comes close to a "marketplace" for WM apps.
dio62000 said:
I think ditg asks a very reasonable (good) question. The answers some people come up with are -don't take this personally- pathetic. All I read is there's a lack of games, apps that actually ARE on the market (tip calculator for instance, how many do you want?) and 'and lots of other stuff'. You have to look further than just Marketplace. There are many sites on the internet that offer apps, free or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you obviously took it a little too seriously... nor did you understand... yes.. i know that i can find app all over the internet.... but what the anroid market and apple store does is offer everything in a convienant location... sure.. call it what you want.. but something so simple like that is a pretty big thing... it's in one simple,easy to access location, organized, and REASONABLY priced... whether it be free or a couple bucks...
its just overall better...
ditg said:
ok, i'll remember that a next time i have a topic, i have to ask for your ideas first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol if you want to be smart about it.... you did ask for my opinion........
but yea.. try not to take my sarcasm too far... although my initial thoughts and points stay true and valid... i respect your views... but come on... who are we kidding.... although not everything is "black" or "white" if you compare our selection/market to the other OS's, the answer is kinda apparent...
but hey.. to each his own...
The iPhone is a phone and it has it's own operating system, it's own apps and it's own store. Windows Mobile isn't a phone, it's an operating system that a lot of phone manufacturers use. That's why you can find apps all over the internet and not in just one store. I do understand, but I doubt it's a benefit putting apps in one store. Sounds to me a bit like phone-communism .
A damn Yelp app!
btw, Dropbox app here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6099133#post6099133
ProjektFuze said:
lol if you want to be smart about it.... you did ask for my opinion........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically he didn't He asked for lists of missing apps.
dio62000 said:
Technically he didn't He asked for lists of missing apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*sigh*
why????........................
maybe not directly... and obviously not in the exact words... but he posted a topic in a forum.. stating some opposing views... now while he did not directly ask for it... it was an open ended "agreement" that he was willing to hear what others had to say about the commen t that he just made.... fair?
lol.................... the end?
Well... he should answer that
If you don't like WM you will not buy an HD2.
if you want your lowend user lollypop buy an Iphone.
if you are a though one that like to put your hands in deep s**t to see how thing really works then HD2 is the truth.
I have to ask this question, dumb though it may be, but how do 'go' make, or plan on making money with all their free apps.
There is a lot of time and effort going into these numerous apps so i can't see the sole reason being 'love' (nice as the thought may be).
Is there something going on in the background with these apps that is making them money? ...i don't see any ads or donation requests ....are they harvesting information? ...do they plan on charging eventually once everyone in the world is using their apps? ....is there something else? ...i'm not saying anything, just asking.
I guess it's about "Go Dev team" and their all "GO" products. I think they might charge in future once all their projects are stable(just my own guess).
GO dev team has a lot of other websites and products that give them revenue from ads and selling other things. The dev team is a part of a larger Chinese company that supports them with their other revenues so that they can keep their apps free.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
Yeah, GO Dev Team are "putting in work" when it comes to the apps.
I guessed it was data harvesting, that's why I switched launcher. I honestly don't know, and want to find out.
iamnik said:
I guessed it was data harvesting, that's why I switched launcher. I honestly don't know, and want to find out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be true... makes me want to delete go SMS pro and go weather.....
Can we please stop the smear campaign? Because they make a good app and don't charge money for it, it must be suspiciously funded...NO
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12180685&postcount=42 explanation of who go are for all of you suspicious people.
=] *downloads go scoreboard*
Interesting that you are discussing this, quite a few of a recent article at AndroidPolice was asking the same thing; http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/04/06/the-go-dev-team-is-on-fire-go-keyboard-hits-the-market/
I think a lot of the concern comes from the fact that Handcent was blasted [to some degree] for being a Chinese based product with little to nothing known about where it came from, it's understandable in Android's climate of a lot of unknown information that people are concerned. From what little I know about Android development, I would still assume that one could capture just about anything they wanted thru using WiFi and Wireshark or another packet sniffer to see where information goes. Eespecially considering this dev team is backed by a larger company, finding out information is going somewhere would be a lot of negative publicity.
I feel like the products are probably safe to use and I really enjoy using Go SMS. Until I am given reason to worry, I think we are in the clear with this team.
some more links about 'go'
http://www.interfax.cn/news/144
http://www.cn-c114.net/583/a393814.html
I know it's not easy being a developer and not everyone can be a developer but the the tons of apps at the marketplace that have been left abandoned by their responsible developers by not updating them just pisses me off. More than 50% apps at the marketplace don't get updates and they look real bad.
Lets take the official Twitter app for example; I really love this app but suffering with it coz it's too buggy and lacks lots of functions. I have contacted support many times but still no reply. Meanwhile, Twitter app on Android gets updated all the time to bring new features, lots of functions and bug fixes, they even had an update last week and it makes using the app just great, but I'm not an Android fan and I need to fight for my OS to have the best experience.
Facebook app just got updated after so many months of cries from users and I know it's gonna take a looooong time again for us to see another update from them although the app still needs work to be done. I have apps that I've never witnessed updates for since I upgraded from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone and it hurts me a lot and not that these apps are great, the need to be worked on. I mean, how can a developer abandon his/her app?? This developer carrier needs dedication and commitment and not everyone can be one.
We really need to update our apps very often to bring the best user experience and capabilities to all of us in order to enjoy our great OS. What can an OS do without good apps??
What do my fellow forumers think about this issue??
i guess it comes down to the apps you are downloading. I get annoyed with all the updates i receive all the time. I as a developer try to update my apps atleast once a month and introduce new features as i learn how to code them in. But in comes down to the person themself. Sometimes we are busy or other issues arise that delay our ability to update the app. But some devs are just lazy looking for a quick buck in my opinion.
just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr
roqstr said:
just imagine you are a developer.
you have a job
you have friends
you have family
-> you don't have much free time
then you can look at the effort it took to develope the apps you already released.
in my case, i worked half a year (yet) on a project, that is still in beta
(i've to mention, it's my first project at all, just take it as an approximation)
Would you feel motivated when you know, that updating your application could costs months, and maybe you wont get rewarded at all because you are such an indulgent guy and made it free?
You also have to set priorities, hobby-development has to get in line.
like HackMimic said, there are developers that update all 2 weeks (possibly briefly developed), and those, who need some time to include more well written features.
and don't forget: how should the developers know, that a user misses smth in his app? most people don't rate/review apps, and when they do, you just read smth like:
"not working",
"useless",
"not worth the money"
...
nothing constructive
so it's hard to know what is missing in his own apps sometimes.
you see, there are a quite alot of things devs have to deal with.
Just try to develope on your own, when you feel there's something missing in marketplace. It's pretty easy
greets roqstr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm...it's not easy. App developing is just similar to my carrier as a research scientist. Hardly get time for anything and you really have to force yourself to do somethings. To tell you the truth, I don't even have a socialization life and that's very bad. All I do is play with my viruses and when I come home play with my windows phone. This life ain't good coz you really need to think about family and friends.....and your girlfriend.
Apps like Twitter get more updates on Android just because there are so many more ppl using Android.
Code as often and as much as you have fun on it. Don't force yourself to do so, results won't be the same.
Keep that in mind
I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.
Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..
The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA
I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.
chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?
Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.
Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L
Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.
Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app
rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)
That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.
jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.
Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.
awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!
I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium