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Hey everyone,
Have you been annoyed lately with the maket? Like how alot of times when downloading apps just hangs? Or like how it takes down apps that are "against" carriers TOC? And takes 30% of the profits from devs for paid apps?
Well we just had this random idea yesterday and it was to make a new market...
This market will be for the community by the community.
Such as the ability to blacklist apps/devs..
And advanced searching...
etc...
Its called AppWire http://appwire.org (as you see the sites not made yet ;D )
We just had this idea yesterday so its still in its infant stage, so we still need all app dev's and web dev's we can get!
If you can't help with developement then feel free to post feature requests!
If you want help with development email me at aakashbpatel [at] gmail.com or look for us in the #appwire channel on freenode.
Thanks Everyone!
I think there's already something similar to this. Forgot its name though. But I do agree Google's policy of removing apps that violate *one* carrier's TOS is ridiculous.
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
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Blacklist apps ONLY if people vote to take it off...
Thanks
Aakash
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
nEx.Software said:
How many Markets do we really need? We already have the official Market, AndAppStore, SlideME, and several other places to purchase apps. The more Markets there are, the more difficult it is to distribute apps. And users simply need to go more places to find the same stuff. Maybe if we make a real effort with Google to get changes implemented everyone will be better off. Just my opinion.
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I agree with you also, and I was looking at slidme's TOC's and it pretty muc said that they own your app if you publish it....and I didn't think it was right that they have the ability to do that.
So I wanted to make a market that everyones opinion matters and one that respects the app developers also.
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the blacklist would be custom to each person not market wide, like if I didnt want to see apps by "DEV A" ONLY I wouldn't see apps by DEV A, alls "99%" of the time, i think thats pushing it i must not use market often or maybe you are on the lucky side.
Its not that bad of an idea, if anyone has experience with ipod touch or iphone, it could be set up something like cydia. A user customizable market in which apps that the normal market wont allow are easier available and such. Though, the blacklist should be just like on a personal basis or not there at all as it would defeat the purpose of the whole thing for more freedom. I think thats kinda what he was suggesting, if so not to bad.
Great idea, totally support!
More options is better. And right now I don't know any "markets" where I can easily download wifi-tether for example. Plus the original market luck of web-interface and (really) many other features. So, for me an alternative market seems like a good idea. It just doesn't look for me like an easy project
there is another one but that one sucks!
this seems like a cool idea for hardcore root access apps and apps that people dont want googles paws on in general
ScottC said:
So, lemme get this right - you complain that apps are being removed because they are against the carrier TOC, but one of the features you want to build into your market is the ability to blacklist apps/devs?
Sorry, but the Android market really isn't THAT bad. Sure, annoying at times, but 99% of the time it works, plus I don't think 30% is that excessive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
I have no need for a new market, per se.
what I'd love to see is the ability for anyone and everyone to host their own apk repository and a more robust package management system on the device
apt, yum, emerge, port, w/e
anyone working on something like that? can I help?
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
bmfc187 said:
Im kinda on the fence on the "blacklist" issue. On one hand, it is the right of the developer to develop applications for this platform, and to release his/her work on the market to be used/previewed/rated/commented/purchased by other users. It is also their right to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, I certainly agree that assaulting the market with 10 different $5 slideshows a day, is verging on MALICIOUS. Seriously, ive never even DOWNLOADED anything put out by Khalid Shaik, yet im sure that none of these slideshows take more than 15 or 20 minutes to produce, i bet not even that long. And $4.99?!?!?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN is a slideshow about Swine Flu worth $5 bucks?! This guy just wants to take advantage of people who havent caught onto him yet. His apps arent worth FREE, much less actual money...you couldnt pay me enough to download anything from him. It IS NOT the right of ANY developer to flood the market with apps of this nature. If you wanna make a slideshow and put it out on the market thats fine...if you worked harder on it than most, then charge a dollar for it...thats fine, too... But dont put out the same damn app 16 times, only with the sounds and images changed, and expect that you have the right to charge $5 bucks apiece again and again and again for the same lame crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TruLuvNvrDies said:
i like this idea, possible features:
o a root/dev component where devs can post beta releases of apps for root phones to be tested and used by advanced g1 users without it being buried, which tends to happen in the android market.
o a tagging feature for apps in addition to categories for easier searching.
o maybe in addition to apps, this can be a place to download roms and stuff.
o a separate widget category or maybe have a section for categorized apps and a section for categorized widgets.
as far as actual implementation you can do it a couple of ways:
1)an actual market app, like the android market
2)maybe easier to pull off initially, a well organized, mobile ready website
3)i personally think a widget component would be cool, paired with either one of the earlier options. the widget could give people recently added apps, updates on existing apps or in preferred categories/tags, and people can use the widget to navigate to a website or a corresponding app.
i think this would be a good opportunity for a community of experienced users like xda to pool a lot of knowledge and resources together in one place.
anyways, i'm looking forward to what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tubaking182 said:
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you guys.
i like the idea there are a few devs that i would like to the ability to block seeing apps from, Khalid Shaik, and RSD themes, to name two. both "Developers" are just using the market as a money making scheme, and it's rdiculous to put out ten apps a day to try and milk money from unsespecting souls. i spoke to RSD personally about slowing down his output of "apps"(mostly ahome and openhome themes) and he said that he would do no such thing because he makes $1500 a month. he then offered to make me a theme and i was downright insulted. i like the idea the android market has of being able to email the devs whenever we look at the app, it makes asking question a whole lot easier.
and possibly a way to mark certain apps as spam if the dev is posting ten soundboard/fart apps a day and with enough users posting the dev/apps as spam the dev can recieve one warning to slow down on releasing his/her apps or be taken off the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1,500 bucks? I don't know why someone like these sound boards ? It's really suck. 1 buck for some sounds which I can get free from internet.
I agree. I would like to see Cydia ported to G1. I have been working on getting Apt running. The part I am not sure of is building a UI for it. This was easier on the iPhone because the apps like cydia were native and not in a vm like on Android.
Thanks for all the support guys....now all we need are some more developers...anyone wanna help us?
possibly available as web developer
I'm not sure where you need more help, phone vs. web development. I may be able to help out in either case though. you can contact me at [my.xda-devs.username]@gmail.com on google talk or by email.
As far as features/requests:
This should be 100% for non paid applications, IMO. I agree with other posters that it only hurts application distribution by adding a new paid app store. Especially because I think t-mobile's 30% is quite reasonable as a distribution cost.
Instead, this app should focus on delivering the type of software that people develop here on xda-devs.
I don't think you need to black list any developers. By only offering free applications through this market, you automatically get rid of most of that spam, and instead promote more sharing. Developers already have a good place to spam crappy applications for money. The purpose here should be for homebrew/expirimental applications and to promote more community hacking.
Keeping this application open source would definitely help with the "for the community by the community" mantra.
Just my two cents..
Best Regards,
Nick
I totally agree with the idea. But I think it would be difficult to implement paid apps because they are updated through the market.
May be I'm posting in the wrong section..
The idea is:
We know the developers here are pretty smart people, and we all want our tablet run faster, better, smoother...
How many people will be agree to pay/donate to Xda team to develop a custom fully-functional, tested rom with "support" for us ?!
Let's say 100 ppl pay/donate $10 for custom android 3.0 rom for g-tablet. $1000 usd is reasonable price to have cool rom running, don't you think ?
This would be a cool benefit for the "users" and cool help for developers.
Any ideas?
Im in! I have been thinking of a way to say thanks. And whats better than money?
I have been working on a hand made leather personalized case for roobeet and i lmost have a functional prototype finnished but this would be for all the devs.
No point to it cause the developers here are already working on Android 6.5 (Double butter fudge salty nipples) Rom. No point in them going backwards.
Interesting point of view, Sm0k3d 0uT, still,i would pay for a fully functional rom.
try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.
it not about the money Honeycomb source is not out yet so there is no way to make a good rom right now. it would be a frankinstein rom and would probalby run like crap
It's not about Honeycomb. It was just and example.
I'm interested in your opinion. Will you pay for a custom build tested rom or not ? And would be nice to hear and answer form a developer, will our "support" help or not
Don't interpret usually getting better bundled apps in a specific roms with needing a specific rom to get better apps. Most roms do a fine job with running on the g-tablet as is. As for the apps, the market it there. The main issue with Android tablets so far it the lack of Tablet-friendly applications. Take angry birds and pulse news reader, they run just as well on a g-tablet foyo based rom as they do on honeycomb. In the end, the version of the OS itself really does not make or break a tablet.
There is room for improving the way we can navigate the OS on an Android tablet, and Honeycomb is a first step to address that and that will eventually be available outside of the xoom.
In the end, if you ask me, I would really prefer to have more tablet apps than a tablet-centric menu system.
I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
Sm0k3d 0uT said:
try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.
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Click to collapse
You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.
I'm sure to whom ever develops the first fully functional HC ROM, that dev will get their donations or at least should get some donations. However, I'm sure none of the devs would be comfortable taking donations promising to build a HC Rom when they know it can't be done at this time. Also, I'm pretty sure as devs they have tried to get a HC Rom ported to our gtablets. Most of these devs live for that type of accomplishment and challenges.
Don't get me wrong, I know your idea is a postive one and I'm all for it. But most of the roms that's are in the development section are already fully functional and all the devs deserve our donations.
Edit: See above. you notice how humble our modders/developers are. They all have high integrity which to me shows that I can trust that if and when HC is available for a custom Rom...they'll get it to us as soon as possible.
roebeet said:
I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.
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Click to collapse
First of all - Thanks for this answer.
But I guess my question was not "clear"
I understand and agree with all points you've pointed.
Few other points:
1. You do this for fun, but we use your project not only for fun.
2. Your "fun" requires time. time = money.
3. Your rom is much better than the one that comes with the tablet
4. Without making money of it - you'll not be able to spend more time on it and make it better.
etc etc..
support: I'm not talking about customer support, taking calls and mails. We'r talking about questions like "what can i do if my tablet doesn't turn on. How to do recovery, etc..", questions you already answered posted in one single topic.
Still gonna be the same: There is a custom built rom, with pre-installed applications, FULLY functional for your tablet (can be with user requested apps if you find them useful) with latest drivers. Who doesn't like it - you're free to install the original that comes with the tablet.
Basically the idea is: give support to the developers (and yes, you are) with money, so they can spend more time on rom's, that we all are using. Make them better (anything get's better with more time spent on it) What do you think?
Like Roebeet said devs do this for fun. But like we did on the mt4g boards to start up development I would gladly put money towards a pot to buy a GTab for more great devs to come from other devices. you can never have enough devs and different flavors of roms.
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.
truthkillszz said:
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.
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Our thoughts converge. I already spoke once about it
ok well, Just inviting few beers to roebeet for Tnt Lite Thanks !
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
Jamin13 said:
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
juzz86 said:
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
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Click to collapse
No problem, always nice to know others thoughts on an idea.
There are the dedicated devs who do spend vast amounts of time on their work and everyone (most everyone anyway) are quite appreciative of it. I'm more concerned with devs, whether new or old, just maybe responding. Not just toward reasonable (or ludicrous) requests but just a general question. I wouldn't look for them to respond to everyone who does ask something though, they would be there for days.
I'm just trying to port a recovery for my phone and cannot get a response from any of those respected and revered devs that have done all the work on those recoveries. I've done my fair share of Googling and asking around here and still have not been able to make any progress on it. There was one member who has been lending a hand but other than him, I haven't gotten any other responses.
It sounded like the first post was more about app devs and the second was about rom devs...
I was just talking about devs in general, not any specific kind. Could be ROMs, could be Apps, people will still ask for more and more and pester until they get what they want or until the developer gets fed up and: makes the changes, stops responding, or gets run off.
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
I'm not a developer but did read this already on a posting at Google+.
But you are right, moving into that direction would be very bad.
Some people think they can be rude because they stay anonymous.
Its something that happens more and more these days on the internet.
I realize it's impossible - there are 12 year olds who probably run rampant.
Seems like there is SOMETHING that can be done.
I'm as Pro-Android as they come. But at times it feels like starting a relationship with a beautiful boy/girl only to find they come with a sack load of emotional baggage.
Here's my take on it: http://andgamesdevblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/android-culture-its-own-worst-enemy.html
I am far from giving up (thick skinned) but there is a real troll culture growing and needs to be stomped out. Anonymity has it's uses but, as with everything else, has its drawbacks. What we need is troll hunters!
Paul
(aka Strangemoo)
I have seen that there are some stupid comments on the market... But not so extreme as to take down your app...
Some users is just plain stupid... I'm from Denmark, so a lot of the comments are in danish... But that devs are many times foreign and really don't look or understand the comments... But a lot of them complain about pathetic things like no app 2 sd or that some function suddenly's gone instead of just writing the dev an email about the issue and giving the app the respect it deserves... 1/5 rating is a lot of the times not justified...
Just my 2-cents...
I'm sorry but this is a silly and immature move by the developer. Receiving negative feedback, dealing with trolls and idiotic users that don't understand technology are fundamental assumptions of the internet, just like not giving out your passwords or helping Nigerian princes get their money out of Africa.
I loved ShootMe and used it for our screenshots, but I don't have a lot of empathy for people that empower others to control how they feel.
Wrote about this a few weeks back: http://www.androidstatic.com/what-shootme-removed-from-the-android-market
I work in IT support and one of the things I have to support is phones. It blows my mind how many 10-12 year old kids have nicer phones than I do because their rich mommy and daddys think their precious little angels needs the latest and greatest smart phones. I went over to a client's office a couple of months ago and he had 3 brand new Droid 2s for his kids, ranging from 10-14.
Point of all this?
In this day and age, there are so many rude little kids with nice phones all over these forums, its amazing to me anyone sticks around. Im over 40 and was raised in a different time than these self entitled children I see around here that want everything now, for free and want you to do it for them.
I cant blame the guy for leaving. A lot of times I wish I could go live on an island somewhere where I didnt have to deal with people because most of them suck.
s15274n said:
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a developer, but I was a ShootMe user on my EVO 4G. When it received the upgrade to Gingerbread, the app stopped working. The developer never replied to my email and from reading comments on Market didn't reply to anyone.
He did finally released a new version of ShootMe, but you had to have a computer to use it. Also everytime your reboot your phone, you had to sync everytime with your computer.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Welcome to the "masses".
Want a better experience? Go smaller. Dev for Windows Phone, or Web OS, or RIM.
Once something becomes part of the main stream, you'll see the d-bags start rolling in. Even something like xda can be tarnished once it "gets too big". There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read a thread here that doesn't make me shake my head. This used to be a highly technical forum, back when every devices was htc and running windows mobile.
The only thing that can really be done, is to work with a smaller, more appreciative community. I doubt you would get very many jerk off comments from a Windows Phone user, they are happy to get whatever they can.
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
s15274n said:
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a android developer IMHO the android community is as bad as they come. Xda for example used to be a place of collaboration. Currently its a place where maybe .1% do dev, .9% appreciate the development and try to help, 99% ether complain or say nothing at all. Whether the development is for free or profite(which I won't evev get into here) how is a developer supposed to work off of that? Users would rather right a comment blasting a developer who has literally spent days of his life on some product without even attempting to resolve the issue themselves.
I'm not saying some complaints are not warranted, just saying flip the coin around and its not so hard to understand the developers standpoint.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
There is no denying that there is frustration on both sides. This frustration seems to stem from expectation, communication and control.
The developer expects their customers to be civil.
The users expects the developers to devote anything between some to all of their resources/free time building/making their products better.
Both are unreasonable expectations if you think about it.
Civility can only be maintained in a mediated environment - the Android Market seems only concerned about brand and copyright issues. Google seems to think that it's ok to put its developer behind chicken-wire with lights in their eyes whilst their customers are free to hurl beer bottles at them. Dealing with anony-trolls is time consuming and offputting.
Developers range from teenagers with spare time on their hands up to multi-million dollar development studios. I, myself, am a father of three, I work a full week (we've got to eat!) and I code when time permits. Even though I respond to every request put to my apps, if you think that I'm going to compromise the balance of other areas of my life to put in a bug fix - think again. Sure, some of the more effluent businesses can throw more resources into a project, but just bare in mind that most of us are just people and not doormats. Respect and encouragement is all it takes to make the market a happy place. Flaming just ruins things for all (on both sides).
Communication between devs and end users is and most likely always will be a bit of a sticking point. The fact that everyone has their own opinions, likes, dislikes kind of makes it obvious that there will never be an app with 100% 5 stars. Even the most popular apps on the market have ratings across the board. Though, admittedly, some of the low grades may be down to trolling - but some of them will be genuine. Communication takes time. From a user, it may take a couple of minutes out of their day. For the dev, they may have hundreds a day to deal with. This takes them away from the development that the mail is probably asking for!
A user doesn't, and should never have control over the developer. They should, however, be able to request, beg, plead *nicely*. If they get frustrated then they should remember the phrase 'you get what you pay for'. The developer doesn't get any money when you bought your phone - so don't think they have any obligation to give you something for nothing. If it's a paid app, then the developer is saying 'yes, I'll support it.' That's fair sport.
The developer should have some control over their customers in the sense that a shopkeeper can choose who they let in their shops. Unfortunately they have none. They can't even moderate the comments on the market. I've had a 'GAY - Pointless, uninstall' (his words, not mine) on a free app downloaded 12,000 times and has a 4* rating. I can't do anything about it. It always appears when people go to the page. This individual has hurt my app and me without provocation. I didn't ask anything from them. Fortunately, the following message pointed out that the 'Pointless' user was an idiot (thanks XZombie), hopefully it will negate some of the damage. We're completely at the mercy of the masses, and being a relatively new dev, it's a scary place to be!
It's a shame that the most influential party in all of this is hiding behind a wall of silence.
If you're interested - I'm keeping a track of my experience of Android development. The link is in my earlier post.
Paul
Strangemoo
Paul, I do agree with you to a point. But I'm not sure if I like about developers editing comments. But I do see what you mean about people leaving dumb comments for an app that does work.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Katt,
I don't suggest developers could edit comments - that would make the process equally pointless, as devs can put all of the 'nice' things they want in the description anyway. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
Devs should be able to either remove, request for removal or even block the rogue elements. At present, we have to just live with the insults with no way to disprove their claims. Even a 'troll flag' would be an improvement - to show other users that the dev disagrees with the comment.
All accountability is on the devs whereas trolls can run freely.
Do any other devs out there agree with me on this? Others may have had a much more dealings with such than I have.
Cheers,
Paul
IMO if google was smart they would allow for a limited ammount(% of total) of "submissions" of there comments to a third party(google). If they are found outlandish they can be removed.
My 2 cents lol. I can say as a dev of a few apps on the market I have gotten rediculous comments n 1 stars b4. I mean if they are justified that's a different thing entirely. But my 1 stars are disproportionally higher then the trend of the others. Which proves one thing...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This is an honestly great thread. Good initiative to |OP|
Taking down an app just because of a few nasty comments is just
childish and quite frankly pathetic.
Seems that developer has chucked his toys out the pram, if he does
decide to release it again who is going to trust such a developer?
I know I wouldn't use the app again, seeing as he's stuck 2 fingers up
to loyal users and the whole android community all because of a small
minority of people.
The whole thing stinks of the guy thinking he is above any kind of bad
feedback, obviously a developer that doesn't listen to the users of his
app and a developer that turns his back at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure he will be missed... Not
Ps. there are better screenshot apps out there
I agree with your comment. Though I am not a dev. I have experience working in the retail end of software. This is a I want it now society, folks forget that they got this software/app for free and as soon as they have a little issue they fly off the deep end cussing out the maker/distribitor of the product. Anyhow like you said you get what you pay for.LIke in my IT course in school my book said "check the dummy behind the keyboard" anyhow thanks for the great apps i use the time flies app.
If a dev dropped his customers because of a couple of snide comments then, yeah, I'd agree with you.
But was that the case for ShootMe?
Before we start flinging hooks around here, wouldn't it be more productive to actually find out what happened first.
I may be proven wrong here, but the guy must've been given some serious grief to take such a newsworthy action.
In fact, that's not been mentioned - it could be media storming. Drum up enough publicity and come back blazing. Only time will tell on that one.
At the end of the day, it's his property. And if he makes a lot of people unhappy that's his prerogative. The reason he's giving though are indeed a real issue the community needs to address.
The plot thickens.
(Glad you like Times Flies! You're most welcome)
Paul
I've noticed that the flavor of a community will vary a lot by device. The Captivate community seems to be generally good and helpful for the most part, but I've heard horror stories of ungratefulness and rudeness about communities around other devices. It may be the same sort of thing with different varieties of apps. If people feel like an app performs a function they deserve outright, they may be less inclined to courtesy and more inclined to selfish expectation.
Removed the OP in protest due to the abusive I endured by some XDA members. In spite of reporting them to the moderates of the forums in question and my views were shared with more members than the abusers one of my threads was closed instead.
To those truly care about technology and its surrounding matters, please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. I will no longer be part of the XDA community. Thank you.
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
CSharpHeaven said:
Part 2
Applications & Games
The very exaggerated figure (over 400,000) by Google is only to generate market hypes and to give an impression how popular the Android platform is.
The truth is Google has used hundreds of thousands of hopeful individuals with prospect of success to submit anything to fight back Apple's App Store, only in terms of numbers that is. The chance to success, financially, on Google's Play Store is only very small for established vendors and even smaller for individuals when the competition exceeds by vast numbers. Think of the odds in lottery to come to the same conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Spell checker?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you are not the only XDA member that can read.
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website-server stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump onto my harddrives, mess it all up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever the hell they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this was my first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality from app to app varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems. the underbelly of android with its signing-mechanisms, permission-transparency, packet-installer, subtle notifications, etc., all this works for me and im using my desktop less and less for a reason.
molesarecoming said:
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump into my systems, mess it up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this is the first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality of the apps varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your inputs. I would like to clarify a couple of things, if you don't mind.
I have never made a comment about the Google Play Store's update process that updates the downloaded applications. Since you did, I do agree with you regarding the advantages you rightly addressed. What I might not agree with you is the trust where my credit card details can be added to the profile Google creates for all the citizens.
My point, that you responded to, was about the inability Android OS has to update itself the way, for example, Microsoft Windows or Apple's iOS can. Also the only thing Android can update on any Android handsets is the Google Play Store app. I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T. Believe me, being a software developer I can tolerate high mental pressures but that experience was something else. I don't wish anyone else go through the same experience ever and they shouldn't really.
I've been writing this article with the consideration of the bigger issues. I cannot conclude Android is a good platform based on a small technical convenience when I have vivid visions on what Google is doing with Android and beyond the mobile space.
If my ID suggests I must be a Microsoft's fan then allow me to say to the readers that I have only two Android phones which I use one of them to write my article and this response. Also I use an Android phone as my primary device, using up to three 1930mAh batteries a day. No, I don't watch movies on my phones but listen to music from time to time.
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His name leads me to believe Microsoft Fanboi - C# is a Microsoft language very similar to java - but has enough similarities to be it's own language.
edit - you posted at a similar time to me.
I will read this from now on, but probably won't comment. I enjoy hearing what ppl have to say.
i have to use c# daily in my job, its great, my favourite until now. did you know that google once played with the thought to make it androids base language? read it somewhere. must be a myth though.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
CSharpHeaven said:
I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i am certainly pissed that my older handset, the s2, caught a disease called touchwizz recently instead of the modern operatig system i was hoping for. but falling ill? come on, get another phone, an iphone maybe, or if you still have hopes for android a nexus, and all will be fine. i learned my lesson from this, i'll never, ever buy something that is not directly maintained by google itself. i heard some people really loved touchwiz and samsungs efforts, to each his own. i thing its nice though that you have the choice.