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Future of the Thunderbolt...

So... I'm winding down from my day, drinking a couple beers and checking XDA for anything I've missed throughout the day. Keep in mind this is my first Android, coming from crapberry... I know it hasn't been out long and there are issues with ril(which I don't know anything about)... I feel like some of the things I have found here I really like have slowed down, if not stopped. Before I get flamed, I understand there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into every Rom and theme we see. I just hope to see that at some point, this phone gets to the point we all hope it will. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and help anyone with questions my limited Android knowledge can accomplish. Feel free to use this thread to vent and rant... Let's get it all out here. Many thanks to the devs still holding strong... I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.

3 things to keep in mind:
1) CM7 is damn near stable and they're working hard on it. That said, [nearly] everybody who isn't working on CM7 is essentially waiting on the CM7 team to finish since [nearly] everybody wants an AOSP-based ROM. So why would they keep pouring tons of time into their current ROMs since they'll very soon be thrown away?
2) Google I/O. Quite a few of our favorite devs are being distracted by either attending or closely following this event.
3) End of the school year. A lot of our favorite devs are either high school or college students. And many of those who aren't have children. As such, this is a rough time of year for them.
Look at all of this and you shouldn't be all that surprised that things have slowed down for a bit. But I promise you, the TBolt will be one of the main platforms that people will be hacking for a while. We'll have CM7, we'll have MIUI, and we'll have many other custom ROMs and kernels. Just be patient while they get the RIL stable. This is the FIRST phone that has supported LTE and this is also the first phone (that I'm aware of) that has supported eHRPD - there are definitely some lessons that need to be learned, and that takes time.

bking_soda said:
So... I'm winding down from my day, drinking a couple beers and checking XDA for anything I've missed throughout the day. Keep in mind this is my first Android, coming from crapberry... I know it hasn't been out long and there are issues with ril(which I don't know anything about)... I feel like some of the things I have found here I really like have slowed down, if not stopped. Before I get flamed, I understand there is a tremendous amount of work that goes into every Rom and theme we see. I just hope to see that at some point, this phone gets to the point we all hope it will. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and help anyone with questions my limited Android knowledge can accomplish. Feel free to use this thread to vent and rant... Let's get it all out here. Many thanks to the devs still holding strong... I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A good amount of stuff has came out with the RIL still not completed, once the RIL is completed, the flood gates will open and you will see a large amount of ROMs made.

bking_soda said:
I'm just looking for thoughts on how far the development will go with this phoned compared to the EVO's I'm compared to everyday at work.
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Click to collapse
... so this is about getting compared to the EVO? You guys have pork sword fights at work too?

Hey now... Pork sword fights are saved for after work. Haha. Not comparing to the EVO, just stating that its been out much longer and had more dev time.

In addition, once 2.3 leaks, the floodgates will open again.

Hey B Soda,
I'm in the same boat as you. I loved my BB Bold dearly. So easy to pimp them girls on it. Just the simplicity of the keyboard, being able to connect with other people.
However now being on my first android, i felt that I made the switch at the right time.
With BlackBerry I felt i could write a good email and msg friends all day, but I could never ever use the browser or attempt to download anything because it really was useless.
Tbolt on the other hand, I was able to do everything that i couldn't do on my blackberry, Msging still sucks on the Tbolt, But it is way way better then trying to browse on a blackberry.
With that said, there is still something i miss about the blackberry, but honestly i couldn't be happier.
One more thing, When i first got into android i was completely loss. I have no idea what to do. It was hours and hours of mindless surfing on many different android websites. Hours of reading on root and roms.
Anyhow Android is the future. Long live Google!!!

I see it like this: the Thunderbolt is still an infant--it eats, sleeps, cries, pukes, and poops. When it gets more mature, it can crawl, walk, talk, and more! It just needs some TLC and patience!

It hasn't even been 2 months. It took a whole month if not more I believe to root the Incredible if I remember correctly. Learn some patience people.
You can't compare this phone to the EVO, the EVO has been out for almost a year now.

I gotta agree with the OP.
Development seems to be at a stand still. I understand most developers are waiting for the ril to be completed. But, while we're waiting other phones will be released and developers will start to look towards that phone for development support. I think we'll be left behind. And it really does seem like only 2 developers are working on getting the ril, but when the G2 was rooted it seemed like all of team douche was working to get the ASOP ROM up and running. With the Thunderbolt it's more like team Slayer. Progress was made quickly with the G2 and other devices. Quickly even with team douche building for all devices at once.
I'm not slapping other developers in the face. I'm currently running adrynalyne build, and I like. Great battery life. But I want the speed and stability other devices have with CM7. I really do appreciate the having the support we currently have. And I've donated to the developers of my choice in support of their work.

Coming from the OG Droid, I noticed that many ROMs are based on CM. So we WILL see many more roms.
I can assure you we will get 2.3.4 sometime in the future especially since HTC "promised" that we'll get some kind of 2.3 version. 3.1 was announced at Google I/O, but that probably won't happen until mid next year for us (if we are lucky).

This is the first Verizon 4g phone. The ril is brand new to all. The phone will take off when the ril is polished and released.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

I would pay money just to get a virus rom update

i can't wait til they send me my sim card for the tbolt

While I don't have a Thunderbolt and I'm still rocking an OG Droid, I do believe I can say something about this.
I suspect that a lot of people share in these sentiments, myself included. But I believe the reason why is because so many people were amazed at the community that developed after the Droid 1 was released. The Motorola Droid really revolutionized the Android ecosystem. With Android 2.0, Android changed big-time. The Droid (and Android 2.0) was leaps and bounds over anything that had predated it in the Android world, and there was all sorts of development options that opened up with the creation of that new phone.
Unfortunately, I believe that the days of new findings and developments like in the days and weeks in November and December '09 are gone for good, and won't be matched by anything in the near future in the Android world. New phones will come and go, the Thunderbolt included. There will be big-time phones (again, like the Thunderbolt) that people will naturally be attracted to, and those will be the centers of development for the community for a good period of time. But I don't believe you will ever again see a surge in development like you saw for the Motorola Droid.
There is definitely still plenty of development going on in a community like this. It just doesn't seem like as much as there was in the Android community in the past, and it definitely wasn't as much. But I don't think we can ever match those numbers again, so don't let that comparison get you down.

Smok3d said:
A good amount of stuff has came out with the RIL still not completed, once the RIL is completed, the flood gates will open and you will see a large amount of ROMs made.
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Click to collapse
I fully agree with what you said. So far there has been some really good to great stuff but I feel personally this is only the beginning of what potential lies within what could be done with ROMs on the Thunderbolt. I can't wait for the RIL to be finished.

I got my OG Droid in Nov. 09 and I personally do not think ROM development was the golden age like you are so fondly remembering. Verizon's first android phone brought a lot of new people to android. It still took quite awhile for community to evolve.
People seem spoiled now ... TB is new tech, we need to give it time. The Devs are bringing out some very Nice sense based ROMs and AOSP will follow... give it time.

"Is dinner ready yet?!" No. "Is it ready yet?!" No. "How about now?!" No. *shoe to the head* "Ow! What the hell was that for?!"
You get the picture. This is exactly what you guys are doing here but it won't be a shoe that you'll get to the side of your head, you'll have pushed a good developer or two away and then you'll really be crying.
Btw, first paragraph is a true story. Actually happened to me a few times.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App

jab476 said:
I would pay money just to get a virus rom update
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Click to collapse
Cheers, I'm thinking the same thing...

ddgarcia05 said:
I gotta agree with the OP.
Development seems to be at a stand still. I understand most developers are waiting for the ril to be completed. But, while we're waiting other phones will be released and developers will start to look towards that phone for development support. I think we'll be left behind.
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Click to collapse
So how, exactly, do you expect other LTE devices to leave us left behind? EVERY SINGLE Verizon LTE device will build upon what is done for the RIL with the Thunderbolt. If anything, add'l LTE devices coming will actually HELP the Thunderbolt community! At some point, yeah, we'll move past the Thunderbolt. But that won't be until multi-core phones blow single-core phones away. And we're not close to there yet. Perhaps Ice Cream Sandwich will make that a reality (we hope) and that's still 7(?) months away!

Newsflash: Android Is Not Perfect

This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.

Excellent post. Would read again.

Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.

Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.

This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.

big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...

gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good understanding

I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps

I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!

Great post, good read!!

Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.

I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App

(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...

I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.

Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'

I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.

tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.

ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.

Samsung rumoured to buy HP's webOS division.

Came across a short article today:
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/will-samsung-buy-hps-webos-50004917/
What do you think about this?
- Will it be good for webOS?
- Will Samsung fill it with bloatware, normalize it and make it just like Android, thus removing the slick interface we love?
I myself think it is a bad thing for webOS, because Samsung's OSs have a history of being less classy than others, and because webOS is the classiest OS I've ever seen, it would spoil the charm.
My thoughts:
I don't want to see anyone own HP's OS. I think it would be somewhat of a Utopian world if it became 'the OS of the people'
I would like to see no large corporation privately developing the OS, and so the hackers who have made Android so famous would openly do so. If some manufacturer such as Samsung took over the business, I think they should do nothing other than manufacture phones and tablets which run the OS.
I think that as soon as a 'standard' OS is loaded onto the phone/tablet, it would be root enabled, allowing people to edit it easily. Known, trusted developers such as the ones on this forum would be supplied some free handsets/tablets to get the ball rolling, and after that there would be regular software updates and custom ROMs ready to download whenever you feel like visiting the xda forums. Because it would be openly developed, it would be hugely successful with the people who love to tweak, edit and customize everything about their phones. I think that, if this happened, that the OS would be quickly adopted by many, as there would be more custom ROMs, apps, themes, hardware tweaks and, after some time, accessories.
I say this because the fact that Android is open source, easy to develop on and fairly cheap means that it has become the most popular smart phone operating system in the world.
This would make webOS hugely popular with thousands, even the people who don't read these forums on the basis that:
- As soon as you find a bug or something that you don't like on IOS or others, there is nothing you can do, but wait. On this "OS of the people" you would be able to come here and someone would already have a fix or a modification.
- If you don't like the appearance of other OSs, you have to root/jailbreak your phone to edit it. With a pre-rooted phone you would not void your warranty just to install a theme. You install all modifications at your own risk, however, so if you do so, you risk your warranty, but do not void it.
These are just my opinionated opinions, feel free to criticize.

while it'd be nice if HP were to release webOS as open-source, that is very unlikely to happen. That is the sad reality. I think if anyone were to pick up webOS, I'd rather it be HTC, just because they have proven to be very hacker friendly. Even if htc were to put sense over webOS, it has proven to be easy to modify anyway.

Samsung is so lagging with updates to their hardware. This is what scares me about them dropping the ball with webos.
I love webos and it is such a hot topic right now, it could really blow wide open if played out correctly- like simply supporting it and not mucking around with it. It just needs some big dollars behind it, get it noticed and get some solid hardware to run on- like the touchpad- ha-i actually like it a whole lot. That's it, just let it spread out from there. Don't try and tweak it, brand it, or otherwise piss all over it. Sorry bout the rant, but I agree with the above/ previous posts.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Better samsung then nobody at all I mean face it HP pulled the plug besides homebrew there is no more development for it unless they went ahead and release it open source which they won't so I welcome if samsung did take over as mentioned better then nothing i'd say sure would I prefer other companies no doubt but that's the current rumor. Haven't heard any other company willing to take it over.
Ideally if you can mash up webos frontal interface with the backend application support of android hell that would be a match made in heaven.

HP just acquired a European based software company to further WebOs

Tecnica001 said:
Ideally if you can mash up webos frontal interface with the backend application support of android hell that would be a match made in heaven.
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Click to collapse
Now that's an interesting thought. Make the Android for Touchpad "look" like webOS and use the android market apps. Whoot!!
Am I the only one who agrees?

Hp should license webos with specs to make sure it runs smooth like Palm or touchpad or whatever. If such a thing is possible. Believe it or not I don't know if I'd trust webos with anyone other than hp. Ha. In there lack of support for it, they've somehow managed to keep it in this sweet virgin like state.
Let someone else take on the burden of hardware production and os brand recognition and then produce some more tabs/ phones for the newly established fan base following.
Just sayin!
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Endgadget just reported that Samsung has stated that they are not interested in webOS. Take it for what its worth...

Just Realizing... OEMs are Taking Advantage of us!

Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?

Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.

They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium

If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.

thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.

It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".

You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...

Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.

Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium

Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!

How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app

Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser

MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.

For the record there are over four million members on XDA...

thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.

thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.

MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.

It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."

thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.

[Tributarius] How XDA has inspired you ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°

Over the past year, I've seen many people making mention of how XDA has helped them make advancements in their careers/lives.
This thread is dedicated to all people and their stories. Please invite others, to tell their story.
Please ponder, then offer some insight to the following:
Who was your biggest influence, in the way of Android?
What are you doing now, since XDA-Developers and Android have opened your eyes to new opportunities?
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
Where do you feel Android can take you?
For the "die hard" in the crowd Can you recall a time without XDA? (must put thinking cap on)

TonyStark said:
Over the past year, I've seen many people making mention of how XDA has helped them make advancements in their careers.
This thread is dedicated to those people and their stories.
What progression have you made since you joined XDA.
Please anser with the following:
Who was your biggest influence
What have you done, since your influence has been clarified
When did you decide, "it's time to make a career of this"s
Where do you feel this can take you
Why this one is up to you because I say, why ask why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, Mr. Stark, you were my biggest influence. When I first joined XDA I was a raging nOOb. I created posts that were way out of place and not thought out. You were my first contact with a moderator. You gave me guidance and pointed me in the proper direction. Thank you.
Since going in that direction, I developed a love for this community and the talented people within. I had such admiration for the developers, the recognized contributors, the themers, the modders and all of the administration. I have grown as a user and now I am working to give back to the community that has given me so much knowledge. I am working towards becoming a recognized contributor as we speak.
I realized it was time to make a career out of this when 1) an excellent opportunity arose. And 2) when I realized how much joy and satisfaction I get out of helping people. Also, how much passion and enthusiasm I have for technology.
I feel that I have an excellent opportunity now, to possibly be a manager or maybe someday an owner of a repair facility, dedicated to mobile technologies.
Again, I have so much passion for everything about technology, especially Android. I am still working to learn how to develop applications, and now I have the opportunity to learn how to fix the hardware as well. XDA, in my opinion, is the sole reason why my passion sprouted, grew, and blossomed. This community is so unique and diverse. There have been many other people here that have inspired me, @Magnum_Enforcer @Captain_Throwback @BD619 @rootSU @simms22 are just a few of the many, many wonderful and talented people within this community. Many thanks to them and the rest of you.

[No message]

@jcase thank you so much for sharing that story! Without the work you've done, nothing I've ever done, in my time here, would have been possible. So many thanks to you!

Who is IAmTheOneTheyCallNeo?
Where to begin? ... I'm going to take all your questions and combine them into a really, long, TL/DR worthy post mmmk? thnx.
I certainly haven't advanced into a career from my experience and participation with XDA. However, I have definitely made a hobby and place for myself here and it all started back in the day (which was a Wednesday by the way).
I had finally upgraded my and the wife's devices to a "smart" phone. We were no longer part of the dumb phone crowd anymore so it was time to grow up.
She had a Droid Eris, and I the amazing Droid Incredible. Although the phone was cool and visually appealing, I felt it was lacking something.. It wasn't as fast as I wanted. In my mind, you should be able to press a button and BAM, you're there. So I began looking on-line for ways to make the device faster.
I started out by visiting the different threads for my device and gained an understanding for what rooting a phone means and how one goes about doing it and what SuperUser is for, etc.
After a few scared posts to test the public forum waters, I through bit lip achieed my first root. I thenk joined the rom flashing community jumping from rom to rom trying to find the best one for myself. This carried on for a bit.
At some point, I decided that I wanted to take the stock rom, and cater it to my specific needs and desires instead of flashing other people's roms. I started using titanium backup to freeze or remove apps because I wanted my rooted stock rom to be debloated. Through a grueling process of trial and error on every file, I found what breaks when what is removed and documented it on paper.
Once I was comfortable and familiar with what each apk file did (or didn't do if removed) I moved on to modifying them directly through the rom zip file on my computer with 7zip. This opened up a new world of hurt because now I was exposed to libs, drivers, audio files, xmls, docs, etc. So that took a long time opening things up and trying to understand what they did. At one point it was a brain overload and I almost gave up interest because it was just too much.
One day, I learned how to change lock screen unlock rings and how changing the pngs can change the image and I began learning what images were called on when what gets pressed or moved on the screen. I was fairly decent with photoshop and offered my services in a thread talking about lock rings. Another XDA member requested I modify a TRON disc to be his lock ring which was coincidental as that was the exact thing I wanted to do to mine! I soon became friends with XDA member (My first buddy on XDA) @synisterwolf and we teamed up in our own HTC Incredible thread (or Rezound.. I actually forget which device we started all this on) making built to order lockscreen rings for people. That was a big hit and we started moving into some other theme type elements like changing the blue navigation chevron in maps to spaceships or tron cycles, etc.
Taking a step into the theme world however meant that I would need to learn how to decompile and recompile apks so I began my learning process in that. To my dismay, a decompiled apk (down to smalli) is incredibly full of stuff I had not even imagined and to this day I still have issues understanding most of it. I did however manage to change smalli in my code, line for line, from a different device to my Rezound which succeeded in giving me the first 5-point AOSP lock system which at the time, wasn't available to the device.
Learning later to make changes in the res and res/values folder taught me how to theme system level elements to the apks and what they did in rom.
I also did a lot of internet searching on how to make roms faster and came up with all kinds of build.prop edits or files you can add into the rom and I experimented a lot.
At one point, I took notice of a talented individual name @chad0989, who together with another talented member @tiny4579 worked on advancements to roms and a kernel which included a voltage modifying app titled Incredikernel. This app (if kernel permitted) allowed you to undervolt each frequency voltage value in an effort to improve rom performance, or save on battery. Now, Chad had his own custom flashable voltage presets that ranged from certain levels to most extreme but I felt the extreme could go a little further. So what I did was Lock my phone at each possible frequency (both min and max) and under as much heavy load as I could put it under, modified down the voltage value just 1 step above what would cause the phone to lock. I spent hours forcing my phone to ride just 1 frequency at a time and placing it under major load just so I can get the lowest possible minimum values. When I was done, it was completely stable and far below what I had imagined. I shared the modified values with Chad and everyone else interested.
I finally came to a point in my android fun where I wanted to share with the public a stock sense rom that I'd personally modified for myself to what I felt was best suited for performance and battery with as little bloat as possible.
I soon came to find out however that I would have to come up with my own files without using files from other individuals so I couldn't just go out and ask somebody for their stock base to use...
Thus, I was lead by someone to the DSIXDA Kitchen by XDA Developer @dsixda. I found out through some friends that you could take the Official RUU for your device and run it through this "kitchen". The kitchen would then decrypt it, deodex it, generate a manifest, and an updater script for you! It was amazing. For such a noob like myself, this was gold.
The learning curve with the kitchen if you've never used it takes time. It forced me to have to fully understand adb which also required me to learn about having the have the latest android tools and sdk. I also inevitably found out that I needed the appropriate java on my pc to make everything work (this includes decompiling and recompiling stuff too). Trying to get the kitchen set up and learning how to use it was frustrating for me at first, but I eventually got there.
After I had what I felt was officially mine to distribute, I used all those small skills I'd acquired to date and with the help of questions being answered by others who'd released roms, I released my first Sense rom (for the HTC Rezound) and called it NeoMAX.
At this time however, I wasn't too confident about myself and was afraid I'd remove stuff people need so I left a lot of things in to keep people happy. The rom however was a big hit for the device.
Over time I gained some guts about me and "took it to the next level" and modified NeoMAX in a way that I personally felt a rom should be for best performance and battery life and released ADRENALINE which was completely debloated and became the smallest sense rom available (which was apparently a big deal for a device with little memory). People loved it.
I then had a moment where I went crazy with it all and released two more roms similar to ADRENALINE only this time they were "De-Sensed" roms in which I tried to make them as close to AOSP as possible. "Simplistic" was the sense-free version of NeoMAX and Injection was the sense-free version of ADRENALINE.
So now I had 4 roms and felt everyone was waiting for the next big thing.
Chad at one point however, broke the ice and got a working AOSP rom for the HTC Rezound which I'd never run on any device before. I'm not sure if any of you have ever had the Rezound before but even running my fastest rom at the time, it was nothing in comparison to AOSP.
I ran AOSP for the first time and was blown away at home fast it was in comparison to Sense and I soon became a strict AOSP follower after that.
I wanted to release my own AOSP rom but learned that I would have to learn how to compile code from source in order to have my own and at the time, I knew absolutely nothing about linux. I was a born Windows user and had never touched linux.
So I had a crash course with my buddy PonsAsinorem and he mentored me for some time in hopes that I would take over and maintain his CyanogenMod project but it was too much for me to handle at the time. I literally had headaches trying to understand any of what he was trying to teach me. Kinda like when you get a new job and the first day, you're blown away by all the stuff you need to learn.
Some time later another friend of mine @mbobino helped me to figure out how to set up a build environment with java and toolchains and walked me through to my first rom compile of CyanogenMod.
Not wanting to release a stock AOSP rom though, I soon learned that, like smalli in Sense, you could modify the source code to add or change things in the rom. Not being a code pioneer, I learned of a huge pool of "cherry-picks" by others more knowledgeable than I that you could look through and drop into your work. All I had to do was walk the custom code isles and cherry pick all the cool features I wanted!
So I had a huge page of cherry-picks and learned how to pull them. Unfortunately, I soon found out that you couldn't just simply pull everything in and expect them all to play nicely... Especially if one pick modifies the same files of another and that second pick assumes the file being changed was unmodified.. This forced me to have to understand how the changes work and I had to learn what needed to be "fixed" in order for all my changes to work together.
I did a lot of growing up with aosp fixing merge/cherry pick errors and trying to fix compiler errors as well. It was no quick process and took me nearly a year to gain a full understanding of how to do it with minimal effort.
I stayed in the AOSP game for the duration of my influence on the Rezound device. I released roms based off of CM, PAC, and AOKP and made many more friends like @apophis9283, @brenuga, @bunchies, @dmeadows013, @Flyhalf205, @Hanger84, @kkozma, @localceleb, @Miss Dragon, @red3razor, @REV3NT3CH, @shrike1978, @Sirknifealot, @Snuzzo, @TheBr0ken, @usagi-pire, @wildstang83, and @XRaptor29. I was even the first at one point to get either PAC or AOKP working on one of the new android platforms for the device.
At some point I was nominated for Recognized Contributor, which made me more proud to be a member of XDA. I can't remember who it was who nominated me at the time, but thank you again.
I soon found out that you could modify build flags for rom opimization on system level and read through a fat GNU page listing all the possible build flags you could use. I did my best to learn (or understand for that matter) what flags I'd want to use and how to add them in and what they broke if used (like using a compiler flag for thumb flags at -O3 broke Camera Viewfinder on screen for the Rezound).
After learning compiler flags I began learning toolchains and got into the whole Linaro and SaberMod chains game. At one point, not knowing any better, I forked SaberMod toolchains over to my github and renamed them Linaro
I was approached later that night through hangouts by the creator of the chains @sparksco which was something like "Hey.. You forked my toolchain and called it Linaro.. It's not Linaro dude" lol. I got to know this developer over time and he helped me a lot with understanding how toolchains worked and the compiler flags I was new at. People who knew of him referred to him as the "toolchain god" so it was good for me to learn from him (even if he didn't want to be a teacher at the time ).
At some point I got frustrated with having to modify a ton of things every time you wanted to change a chain though. I found that a certain tolchain may work best for kernel but another worked best for rom so I wanted to use two separate chains. Following a similar example by another dev, I created what's known as the GCC FREEDOM initiative (which I'm proud to say many rom teams use and still use today). As a matter of fact, sparksco has continued to improve on the initiative and continues to improve and update it.
I soon noticed that people began writing articles about my work on other Android Forums and I seized that opportunity to apply for Recognized Developer and got it.
I then spent my time mentoring other potentials (many of whom are now XDA Developers or Recognized Contributors) teaching them how to build and diagnose problems, theme stuff, etc. This kept me sharp and I also learned a few things from each of them as well as they learned things along the way that I had missed. I gained rapport with many of them and the android community and we all helped each other out when there were issues. This, in my opinion, is what android should be about.
To this day I'm still learning from others who have been in longer and are more knowledgeable than I. Github was no walk in the park to learn and I still struggle with it from time to time. In fact, there was a time Chad had mentioned that Github was harder to learn than android.. I still agree with that statement.
For a few months, my friends wildstang and tonystark kept nudging me to apply for Forum Moderator. They told me I had what it takes to be a mod for XDA, so finally I applied (not really expecting anything and half interested). However, once I received word several months later that I'd made "The Final Cut", I yearned for the position lol. I soon after became mod, and have built up friendships with many of them over time. It truly is like a family and we work together to ensure that XDA remains a peaceful place where Android Enthusiasts can come and enjoy sharing their works, ideas, and conversations with Android.
One day I finally purchased my HTC One Max (at the constant heckling of my close friend Flyhalf205 with promises of ruling the galaxy and stuff), I fell back in love with HTC Sense. He told me he would win me back over to Sense and although I told him it wasn't possible, it happened. I realized that my love for AOSP was strictly due to the fact that it made the device fast and now it no longer mattered.
I finished out the Rezound with my signature rom "TACHYON" which I could boast was the fastest rom for the device to date, and left (might still be).
Once on the Max, I realized a freedom I hadn't felt since the HTC Incredible days.. I was just a device owner. Very few people knew who I was on the Max. I was no longer stressed about pushing roms to the public or fixing aosp builds or helping others with their problems. It was then that I found out that I was completely burnt out and almost left android development for good.
One day, for myself only, I took it back to the beginning and went with Adrenaline again only this time, I applied all my accumulated knowledge to that point to make it something much more special. I learned through a friend @[email protected] how to theme the SystemUI and create my own themes in the built in theme chooser which I surprisingly liked more than doing roms I liked it so much that I did 33 themes which may seem excessive to many, however I like options. After Flyhalf hounded me for months to release the rom, I finally did.
I stayed on the Max for maybe 6 months and my friend @dottat was generous enough to gift me with a htc m8.
I have been on the M8 now for maybe half a year and it's been fabulous. I had intentions of releasing so many roms and cool things but in the end, I only released a single ADRENALINE rom, which I'm ok with.
I actually had every intention to stay on the M8 through the middle of 2016 as my contract wouldn't be eligible for an upgrade until that time. However, through the generous efforts of my very own HTC USA Moderator team, I came to own a HTC One m9 as of today Thank you guys for that :good::highfive:
Long story short, there is not just 1 person who has made an influence on me here. It is through the efforts of several people, whether intentional or not, that I am where I am today..
I came here as a troll, looking for fun, and found a home.
Love you guys,
-Neo

ΠΣΘ said:
Some time later another friend of mine @mbobino helped me to figure out how to set up a build environment with java and toolchains and walked me through to my first rom compile of CyanogenMod.
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You mean I get my own line in your autobiography?!?!? Wow... makes me miss this place. Maybe I should come back and start down this rabbit hole again.

What a tough thread. How can you put so much influence into a single post? Maybe I should just take the next 3 posts and put Reserved in them for later use.
It is really hard to say who is/was my biggest influence on the site, as I have interacted with so many people over the past 4.5 years. I would have to say that I have a freakish memory and if I have ever talked or interacted with you and you have not changed your UserName, I will remember who you are and most of the time what we talked about. This is what makes it so hard to pinpoint anyone person or even people. I'm not a Developer, Themer or even a hacker that some of the above and I am sure below posters are. I can hold my own in all of those realms, but anyone of you can code circles around me. What I do consider myself is that I am a person who is cut from the same cloth as most of the Users on this site. With that being said, I do have a soft spot for the Users on this site. We have all been in Panic Mode when we got into a bootloop and didn't know how to get out. Or flashed some Mod and forgot to Nand beforehand. There is no denying it, that sucks.
When I first came to XDA, I was looking for a simple function called Root. Back then, when you searched for Root, most of the things that came up in le Goog's page were relevant to Jailbreaks and iOS. Android was a baby and I was tasting the sweet flavor of Éclair at the time. This was before Froyo and the Apps2SD, so we had 128mb of /system and 128mb of /data which filled up really, really fast. I needed to be able to install some more apps at the time (that were mostly junk apps, but I didn't know any better then) and the phone just couldn't hold it. I still remember the beads of sweat as the pooled up on my neck when I ran my first -sh command. It almost worked, but failed and I had to restore back to a stock.sbf (it was a Motorola XT720). You live and you learn, I guess. Looking around, trying to figure out how to do all this I came across the OT section (specifically the Off-Topic: Image Thread). This was where I first came in contact with a few Mods and some really cool Users. To this day, I still interact with many of them and look to some of them as true friends.
That phone borked and I got a SGS1/Vibrant and started to learn the Samsung eco-system. I met a group of Devs and testers in there and started contributing where I could. This went on for about a year, which is like an eon in internet time. There was a kerfuffle where AOKP had left the site and moved to Rootz and many of those guys who came to be my friends, left XDA. I stayed and blended my posts between both sites. Some of them came back and some didn't, but I am still in contact with many of them daily, even so much as a few minutes ago. We have seen births, deaths, marriages starting and ending, good times and bad, but we always know where we met and keep that as a foundation of our friendships.
I've met several people from the site IRL, talked to some on the phone, sent devices/products to their home addresses and have even had to Infract one. This bodes to what I do on this site and I take it very seriously. Many Users and FSMs alike know that I am brutally honest and I always will be. When I am wrong, I admit it. When I am right, I don't pound it in your face. This isn't something that I generally state in public on-site, so if you have every interacted with me, then you'd know that I speak the truth. It isn't because I have some power trip, it's because that was the way I was raised and the way I raise my own kids.
Honesty and Integrity first. As long as you have those, your word is your oath.
With that being said, I don't work in Android or tech, but I have applied many of the attributes that I have gained on-site into my everyday dealings with personnel and management. I employ the same honesty on-site that I do off-site and if anything, that is what XDA's biggest influence is for me. I only hope that the way that I interact with Devs and Users on-site will transfer to the ways that they help/post/work/...with others.
Who was your biggest influence
Every person that I interact with or even simply read their posts.
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities
Living the dream
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
Join Date: 17th November 2010
Where do you feel this can take you
To the moon, Alice. To the moon.

Perhaps I have no business posting here, as I'm no developer, but I feel my career has certainly been improved/inspired by XDA.
I was first promoted at work and had a basic cell phone on my company's business account. I then asked my boss if I could purchase my own smartphone, if I could activate it on our business account, which he approved.
I went with a Blackberry 7130E that I purchased used. I moved to Curve, then the Storm and Storm 2 phones and liked the touchscreens vs. the "hard" keyboards. I was soured on iPhones due to my dislike for Apple. (I have worked in IT for the better part of 18 years, and most of that was Microsoft and Linux stuff, so I had to be anti-Apple, lol) so naturally the choice was either Windows Mobile (at the time) or Android... Android had more choices and was sort of just up-and-coming at the time, so I decided on a Motorola Droid X... Slowly but surely, more people at my company started getting Smartphones, and I became the resident "expert" on tech support for them. As a result, I was given account management access for our VZW Business account. I transitioned roles within my company (less direct IT work, more "business operations" work), and I was made a SPOC for our VZW account.
I was never much of a programmer, and my Linux knowledge has waned, so I wasn't going to be much help as a Dev. I was able to offer support and help to the Devs though... file hosting, offering to lend my devices (since it didn't matter if my phone was bricked--I'd just get a new one!), or just being a glorified cheerleader.
TonyStark said:
Who was your biggest influence
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Starting out, I worked a lot with @dhemke17 as he did Dev work on the Incredible 2 (I believe)... He tried to incorporate some of my suggestions on his ROM and I also gave him File Hosting for mirroring of his files. Almost all of the people I've communicated with on XDA have been overwhelmingly awesome, both in public threads and PMs. @jcase and his team have impressed/inspired me with their ability to get things done on HTC devices, @ΠΣΘ reached out to me not so long ago and we've hit it off pretty well (if I say so myself)--yet another "grassroots" guy that just loves interacting with fellow smartphone enthusiasts. I know I'm probably missing a lot of others, but honestly it's tough to differentiate with all of the acquaintances I've made over the years.
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities
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I'm managing my company's Cell phone plan(s). I help out co-workers if they are having issues with their phones (yes, even iPhones). I feel like I've been given a lot more responsibility and been able to influence my boss and co-workers, fueled by my thirst for knowledge of all things smartphones.
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
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Click to collapse
Well, in regard to my becoming a SPOC, it was a natural progression. I was helping out so many people with their phone issues, my superiors recognized it was a natural fit. The silver lining was that I was getting burnt out in my previous role and welcomed the change--I am now relatively stress-free and loving my job.
Where do you feel this can take you
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In talking to @ΠΣΘ and others, I may find it interesting to learn more about being a Dev. I know I love flashing custom ROMs and gain knowledge from this community each and every day. If I do decide to make a go of it, if nothing else I have something that I could do if my current career path leads me astray.

WorldOfJohnboy said:
Perhaps I have no business posting here, as I'm no developer, but I feel my career has certainly been improved/inspired by XDA.
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On the contrary, this is what we all want to see mate:good:
You and everyone that shares their story, are the core of what makes XDA great
We all are, what makes XDA Family:good:

Thank you all for sharing these stories. The amount of inspiration I feel, is overwhelming. It's comforting to know that these "strange" desires I have, in regards to all things Android, are echoed so loudly amongst this community. I truly feel like I'm at home here.

Wow, reading these impressive story`s here definately proves that passion and perseverense does make a difference and can change someones life.
I`am by all means not a developer or even working as a phone/pc/it professsional but just a enthousiast who likes to tinker with phones. Started as a `noob` and as i steadily gained knowledge by reading and trying i assisted other users to solve their problems regarding rooting, flashing, mods etc etc. I enjoy it very much andhelping with other users issues also makes me better too imo.
Who was your biggest influence
My biggest influence are all the motivated and willing users that like to help others without beeing/becoming sarcastic or condescending. One person specificaly i`d like to mention is @malybru for his help and beeing an inspiration, but there are so many good people here and i can`t mention them all but i owe you all of you my gratitude.
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities
Still the same proffesion which i love.
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
Joined XDA in 2010
Where do you feel this can take you
To the poorhouse as i frequently sell my phone and buy a newer device

This is a wonderful forum and has potential for anyone. It might not always connect to a career, but the fact we are here reading shows our interest. I love that almost any issue is solvable if you search the boards. I have been helped so much here and hope I have helped others. My wife just got a LG G2 and I had no clue how that worked, a quick hop over to the forum and all was answered (only a few questions I had). A nice guy over there even shared his rom with me, which was great. I have done a little building, but I am still a novice. I do know all I need to get better is readily available here. Having a baby, studying a post grad cert, and working have kind of got in the way.

Who was your biggest influence?
The people who said, "Read more. Use the search function." or said, "."
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities?
Use mobile tech in my daily life. Use it to solve problems, be more efficient and it's a great hobby.
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"?
Just after I learned how to flash my Blackjack SCH-M450. God, I just found my first post as koe1974 from 2007!
Where do you feel this can take you?
To infinity and beyond!

Oh this is gonna take me a while, been on here since 2008 but joined 2009. So many influences and friends made....
I'll be back lol

Been here since 2011.
Learned how to root my n7000 banger, install Linux, compile and not ask idiotic questions (Google is your friend).
Learned it's best to stick to G+ and stay away from XDA because reasons.

In comparison to others, my story is boring as hell, but prepare for TL/DR.
I got my first phone in 1999? where the cell phones in Poland actually started to appear. I was using random feature phones until 2011, when my best friend @Anomalious got the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10. He was so amazed by Android, that I decided to pick the only smartphone I could afford - the Xperia X8. I made a call to my carrier, placed an order and got my shiny little beauty couple of days later.
I never actually thought that I will become a moderator. For over 20 years I lived in a small village (200 people) in one of the poorest regions in Poland. Needless to say that we earn only $3/h, which is a silly amount for a country in the heart of Europe and a member of European Union. Oh well, we have to live with that. When I joined the XDA, I could barely speak English (well, I still do). I was looking for a custom ROM that is faster than SE stock firmware. I joined the community, became the part of it and realized that Android is my hobby and I would love to know it more.
I started with translations, as I hated that my favorite custom ROM was partially translated to Polish. I downloaded the source and wanted to see how this thing work. I started my first build and failed miserably after 10 seconds. At this point XDA wasn't full of guides of almost everything, so I had to look for answers on my own. After a week or two I managed to compile a part of the ROM with my own translations. That was fun, so I joined the dev team, where I could talk with amazing people.
Who was your biggest influence
@doixanh. This chap is not only one of the Asian magicians that do wonders with code, but also a great pal to hang out with. His wisdom, enthusiasm and sense of humor are absolutely amazing!
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities
I write about tech. Over 10 years ago I made a mistake of my life and didn't chose the computer science as my studies subject. I went for journalism instead and I partially regret it. It's fun, but creating own apps and games would be much more fun. Maybe I will learn to code properly in the future. I need a motivation though :silly:
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
Almost instantly when I got my X8. It was almost unusable with the 2.1 firmware prepared by Sony Ericsson. Luckily Sony is so much different and makes better ROMs.
Where do you feel this can take you
Hopefully XDA will help me to find some good and interesting job. Right now I feel that reality hits me hard (bro) and I can't fulfill my ambitions. Nobody wants to give me a chance, which is sad and I have to live with it.

ΠΣΘ said:
One day, I learned how to change lock screen unlock rings and how changing the pngs can change the image and I began learning what images were called on when what gets pressed or moved on the screen. I was fairly decent with photoshop and offered my services in a thread talking about lock rings. Another XDA member requested I modify a TRON disc to be his lock ring which was coincidental as that was the exact thing I wanted to do to mine! I soon became friends with XDA member (My first buddy on XDA) @synisterwolf and we teamed up in our own HTC Incredible thread (or Rezound.. I actually forget which device we started all this on) making built to order lockscreen rings for people. That was a big hit and we started moving into some other theme type elements like changing the blue navigation chevron in maps to spaceships or tron cycles, etc.
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the feels. <3 it was, in fact, the HTC Incredible that we started with. stuck together for the rezound. I still have the USS Enterprise Google MAPS apk somewhere.

@TonyStark pinged me to add my story..
My IT background goes something like this. I bought my first real PC in about 1998 and just sat it for hours trying to figure it out. I have never been on course or anything like that but it appears I am a pretty good problem finder / solver. If I cant find the answer google is always the way to go. I was once told I had to teach an IT class for one year (I am a maths teacher) because I was good with troubleshooting the departments PC. I got fed up of just telling the kids to google their problems because that all I would do... but that's another story.
So I upgraded to SE X10i back in about 2010 when I was playing a lot FB poker (I don't trust myself playing with real money, yet!) and I was so frustrated that I couldn't play poker on the phone. I really wondered what the point of having a smartphone that could browse the internet was if you couldn't browse the internet.
Anyway, I soon realised I needed to get Java installed on the phone and to do that I needed root. I have never heard of this before but after a LOT and a LOT of reading I was ready to try and root it. It was a really bad hack as I remember, you had to download an official FTF from Sony servers and then cancel it at exactly 98% complete so you could replace a file. I was so nervous that I would brick it....
Since then I have spent time learning about how to improve my phone. I am no serious coder at all, but I pick things up and am fairly good at helping new people to the scene and quite a good troublesooter of problems.
Who was your biggest influence.
 @DooMLoRD helped me out when I started playing around with kernels
What are you doing now, since XDA has opened your eyes to new opportunities
Currently I do not even have root on my Z3. I have some apps like sky sports that wont work with it, but I am still keen on keeping up with the latest stuff
When did you decide, "it's time to make a go of this"
XDA just gradually took over, I am on here most days and my laptop is always on with XDA open.
Where do you feel this can take you
Hopefully I can start an extracurricular class at school, helping young kids get into Android or just into coding anyway at all. I will still have to learn a lot myself, but the joy is in the journey

I want to play along and this is how i started this additional with XDA
My first "smartphone" was the BlackBerry Storm. This was the stepping stone to my adventure. I met @sk8erwitskil IRL and he introduced me to the world of Linux. Showing me his Samsung phone and how he was able to modify it and at that moment i wanted to do the same. (cool kid syndrome) This lead me to buy the HTC Incredible and a group of friends, that although i have never met, they would end up changing everything for me.
I first started using METAMorph to do low level png and color thememing of apps and CM. I was bad at photoshop and would only know how to replace pngs from ones i found online. that was until i met @ΠΣΘ (formally known as IAmTheOneTheyCallNeo) I had an idea to change the lock screen rings to something more fun. I started to send PM's like a mad man requesting everything i could think of and he delivered no problem. ( i think he told me to stop using XDA pms and gave me his gtalk) Now i know our parents told us to not trust strangers online but it felt right, and who can really say no to free candy??
With Neo and I working together we were like a T-Rex with arm extension grabber things.. UNSTOPPABLE. We quickly found out how demanding the work was and not once did it feel like a chore or a job but a hobby that would push us to do great things. Not to long after we started to theme apps. Changing out the chevrons in Google MAPS for iconic spaceships and tiny cars. Our personal cars at that. He was the man that did all the photoshop and i was the one figuring out how to not break the APKs. Fast forward a year. We started to crave more. Working with an app was fun but it was time to learn how to do it the correct way. Que APKTOOL. The learning curve that is modifying an APK from scratch instead of inserting a picture was like night and day. It was a struggle, this was a new challenge that we were determined to figure out. (7Zip warrior FTW)
Enter @fernando sor, @Stoney 666, and the rest of the BAD SEED CUSTOM family. I remember staying up late asking questions on how to theme a rom. With every question i asked them two, three more would come to mind. I was so sure they would have blocked all communications with me from all the questions i had. But like a champ they were on point and ready to help this noob. Every time something new showed up on XDA i had to get it to work on the device i was on at the time. Animations in the notification screen, taking the honeycomb lock screen animation and making it work on ICS, changing the whole OS to a two tone theme. i really liked the blue and black. this would be a start to my first CM theme for the themer system.
Not to long after i met @Pons and @wildstang83. They were the ones making cool roms for the incredible. Pons did some incredible patch work for CM and stang was all about the Sense roms. this inspired me to start making my own roms. But i could never find the time to get it all working and eventually put a stop to it all. At this time i was dealing with incredible amount of depression. My personal life took a dump and i thought i was down for the count. The thought of modifying anything in android was the last thought on my mind.
It was a bad time. I felt nothing was going right and that i didn't even want to live. having 90% of my paycheck go to bills, and rent. Having to skip a meal or two so my dog and cat would have food. burned out and had enough. i tried to take my own life. i was ready to go and meet my creator and that was that. These strangers i never met in real life fought harder for me than i did myself, they manage to track me down some how and get me the help i needed. People that i have never met or didn't even know where i lived were able to call police and services and find me and saved me when i needed it the most. During my stay at the hospital, little did i know i had a lot of people trying to make sure i was okay. My phone died due to the fact there were so many phone calls, notifications, Gtalk, twitter, XDA pms. It was through these wonderful people that i am still here today. We would talk via Gtalk, IRC, Chat rooms, phone calls, text, every electronic means of communications you can think of. They cared so much about me it was a different feeling. Like there was some Good out there in the world and i could finally see it.
Today, I am a lot better. I found help with my depression and anxiety, I'm doing a lot better for myself and i have some incredible friends I've made here on xda. I was able to work with some of the greatest developers of the incredible, rezound, Inc 4g, and now the M7. (im an htc whore?) Although i dont do much now i am always learning from the wonderful devs here. I was able to get my laptop to build CM from source. I learned how to use Linux, how to write in java and how to edit smali. i know how to set paths in windows(like a boss), how to decompile a jar, apk, how to split a ramdisk, how to test OTG all thanks to the wonderful "strangers" I've met online. Thank you XDA for this wonderful place that has made me who i am.
The crackflasher, tweaker (not meth), the themer, the modifier, the one with a million questions that i know where i can get my answers. The one that will help anyone in need, like so many others did for me.
thank you everyone,
SynisterWolf

Thanks for sharing the lovely stories. Neo.. I remember the good old time.