Database Info

Submitting Patches to the Repo / Forking

Hi all!
I'm an android developer, and I regularly read the official android-dev and android-porting lists, but on all the fan blogs and from lurking here, it seems that all the good development is coming from XDA-dev!
So why don't you guys do some patch submission? Features like auto-rotating browser and the transition animations should really, really be in the main source, but the official Android team have their thumbs up their asses in regards to UI/polished stuff.. (I bet they're too busy working on the lower level cellular stuff and the ARM-generating stuff like in the *flinger libraries).
So you guys should make some patch submissions over at (http://source.android.com/submit-patches)!
That way, the next RC will have all of these lovely features you guys have implemented.
((Or, alternately (but more ambitiously), fork the entire codebase. Strip out the DRM and add a framework for native code execution. Perhaps that's a pipe dream, though..))
Thoughts?

I think forking the Android source would be a very nice touch, if Google doesn't pull it together. We could still add on to stuff from the official code, but add on all the special stuff that Google refuses to (they've said they won't add the ability to change CPU speed, etc).

Oh, absolutely, there would be numerous advantages to having a fork. It should definitely be discussed! I'm afraid that Google may be trying to exert too much control on their platform in ways that we don't always want, so there is nothing legally to stop us from forking and maintain a more badass tree. GitHub could provide the hosting.
Of course, it might be a waste of effort. If you submit the badass patches, then the good features here go out into all the phones in the next versions. Work on the fork, and only the selected users who are able to flash their own phones can use it, unless some Chinese companies start using it or something like that.
Names?
XanDroid? I'd rather like to see Mandroid with in a slick black theme..

Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)

Seanambers said:
Well to me it seems like the only people doing cool things right now with android have rooted devices
So why cant you ***** a little on google lists to make them actually do some work. The Roadmap @ http://source.android.com/roadmap is a joke. Either they give us root or they start working imo. =)
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Do you think that the release of the new unlocked Dev phones will change things?

Yeah it'll most probably shake things up a bit, however what about all those that already have a g1?
I for sure isnt buying a new phone to get root.

But even so, we're still talking about modifications to the OS and the packaged applications, which would be released in the next RC version, so even non-root users would get the features in the next update, along with anyone running Android on something besides a G1.

my .02
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...

bhang said:
Id say submit some of the things found here and see what goog does with it, if they openly add these things that need root at this point and let xda dev participate in the OS with such submitions...then cool thats how open source works best, when anybody can add to the project, a phone OS utopia
If they ignore it then, a fork is the way to go but give google a chance to do the right thing first before, just leaving them in the xdadevs dust with a custom distro...
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Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .

I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.

Gary13579 said:
Google has refused to add multiple features. They feel that they aren't necessary, or that your average consumer wouldn't want it (main thing I can think of atm is CPU speed).
If they don't add the features we request, simply because *they* don't like them, then a fork would get us exactly what we want/need. After we fork it, and the number of users using stock Android plummet, maybe they will listen .
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Given the number of G1s with modified fw installed compared to the total number of sold units, I somehow doubt the number of users is going to plummet.
IMHO it would be a needless fork unless some new or considerably modified features were planned. Better to just patch the functionality into the official builds, if at all possible.

I'm not convinced by that logic. There would be an important difference between a fork and patched versions of the firmware, as a fork would have a totally different design philosophy. Whereas Android is focused on speed (or whatever the hell they're concentrating on..but to be honest, I think they're dicking about over there), Mandroid could have more focus on polished features and low-level access. ((And! No DRM, and I'd like to see some more security features..ZRTP?))
Either way, I think it's really important for the success of the open future of phones that the open source community take and give back. There's no need for the back-and-forth like with, say, PSP-cracking as we have the source code and we are allowed to do whatever we like with it. If we just keep patching what they give us and keeping the modifications closed, then we aren't really in control.
As for project management, I'm absolutely sure there are people who are capable of maintaining an active open-source project such as this, as long as there is a well-thought out design philosophy. I'd love to be involved, if enough people are willing to give it a shot. But, first, it'd be easier just to submit patches.

Miserlou! said:
PSP-cracking
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PSP cracking is insanely different. If you were in that scene, does my name look familiar ? Was net admin at toc2rta/malloc, admin of psp-hacks.com, worked with a lot of people on a lot of stuff that I barely remember as it was years ago .
But for the PSP, we were working with a system we knew nothing about. So yes, Android would be a lot simpler to work with. But if Google doesn't listen to us, it's not like it would really matter.

neoobs said:
I see a problem with forking... who says what is allowed and not allowed? That is the main problem. Now if you wanted to just add an app that would be one thing but there is not going to be an easy way to do this.
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Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.

2 words
The community(did I spell that right?)
Bhang

Datruesurfer said:
Android is licensed by both the Apache Software License (do whatever you want with it) and the General Public License (do whatever you want with it as long as you make the source code available for others). We are certainly allowed to do this, but the problem lies with the G1 owners running the official RC30. They wont have the rights required to flash the image which leaves them out of the party.
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I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?

neoobs said:
I meant who is going to the be decision maker of what features will be added... The Community as a whole? What about some that want it but only 25% of the community wants it?
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That's what project leads are for. And hypothetically when enough people are dissatisfied with the xda-dev fork they will go and create their own fork. Except I don't think there is any real argument yet to go and create an xda-dev fork in the first place. Forking an operating system meaningfully is not a weekend project for a single person.

I have said it before, let's give them a bit more of a chance, a fork isn't something a guy can do in a weekend.
So let's see what happens in RC3X, the next release will give folks a bbetter idea of where their heads are at. If enough of the community is unhappy there will be a fork
Bhang

[Q] G-tablet Rom (idea)

May be I'm posting in the wrong section..
The idea is:
We know the developers here are pretty smart people, and we all want our tablet run faster, better, smoother...
How many people will be agree to pay/donate to Xda team to develop a custom fully-functional, tested rom with "support" for us ?!
Let's say 100 ppl pay/donate $10 for custom android 3.0 rom for g-tablet. $1000 usd is reasonable price to have cool rom running, don't you think ?
This would be a cool benefit for the "users" and cool help for developers.
Any ideas?

Im in! I have been thinking of a way to say thanks. And whats better than money?
I have been working on a hand made leather personalized case for roobeet and i lmost have a functional prototype finnished but this would be for all the devs.

No point to it cause the developers here are already working on Android 6.5 (Double butter fudge salty nipples) Rom. No point in them going backwards.

Interesting point of view, Sm0k3d 0uT, still,i would pay for a fully functional rom.

try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.

it not about the money Honeycomb source is not out yet so there is no way to make a good rom right now. it would be a frankinstein rom and would probalby run like crap

It's not about Honeycomb. It was just and example.
I'm interested in your opinion. Will you pay for a custom build tested rom or not ? And would be nice to hear and answer form a developer, will our "support" help or not

Don't interpret usually getting better bundled apps in a specific roms with needing a specific rom to get better apps. Most roms do a fine job with running on the g-tablet as is. As for the apps, the market it there. The main issue with Android tablets so far it the lack of Tablet-friendly applications. Take angry birds and pulse news reader, they run just as well on a g-tablet foyo based rom as they do on honeycomb. In the end, the version of the OS itself really does not make or break a tablet.
There is room for improving the way we can navigate the OS on an Android tablet, and Honeycomb is a first step to address that and that will eventually be available outside of the xoom.
In the end, if you ask me, I would really prefer to have more tablet apps than a tablet-centric menu system.

I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
Sm0k3d 0uT said:
try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.
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You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.

I'm sure to whom ever develops the first fully functional HC ROM, that dev will get their donations or at least should get some donations. However, I'm sure none of the devs would be comfortable taking donations promising to build a HC Rom when they know it can't be done at this time. Also, I'm pretty sure as devs they have tried to get a HC Rom ported to our gtablets. Most of these devs live for that type of accomplishment and challenges.
Don't get me wrong, I know your idea is a postive one and I'm all for it. But most of the roms that's are in the development section are already fully functional and all the devs deserve our donations.
Edit: See above. you notice how humble our modders/developers are. They all have high integrity which to me shows that I can trust that if and when HC is available for a custom Rom...they'll get it to us as soon as possible.

roebeet said:
I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.
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First of all - Thanks for this answer.
But I guess my question was not "clear"
I understand and agree with all points you've pointed.
Few other points:
1. You do this for fun, but we use your project not only for fun.
2. Your "fun" requires time. time = money.
3. Your rom is much better than the one that comes with the tablet
4. Without making money of it - you'll not be able to spend more time on it and make it better.
etc etc..
support: I'm not talking about customer support, taking calls and mails. We'r talking about questions like "what can i do if my tablet doesn't turn on. How to do recovery, etc..", questions you already answered posted in one single topic.
Still gonna be the same: There is a custom built rom, with pre-installed applications, FULLY functional for your tablet (can be with user requested apps if you find them useful) with latest drivers. Who doesn't like it - you're free to install the original that comes with the tablet.
Basically the idea is: give support to the developers (and yes, you are) with money, so they can spend more time on rom's, that we all are using. Make them better (anything get's better with more time spent on it) What do you think?

Like Roebeet said devs do this for fun. But like we did on the mt4g boards to start up development I would gladly put money towards a pot to buy a GTab for more great devs to come from other devices. you can never have enough devs and different flavors of roms.
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.

truthkillszz said:
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.
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Our thoughts converge. I already spoke once about it

ok well, Just inviting few beers to roebeet for Tnt Lite Thanks !

The Market Incompatibility Final Solution

The short version:
Let's get Google to change the market incompatibility from "You can't have this," to "Are you sure...?" Because quite honestly why waste precious minutes downloading an APK from some unknown source that for all you know could be tempered with and wind up ****ing up your device.
The teal deer version:
There are now numerous threads regarding this issue and I think it's time we had one that was the central place for us to discuss this issue as it's too scattered about and so far all attempts at remedying the issue have been either in vain or temporary. We shouldn't have to suffer so much over something so unnecessary.
The idea is sound, sure, but its ways of going about doing so are very wrong. In the event that an app doesn't work as expected, or at least in suspicion of such, it need only be noted as a warning to the user. So instead of seeing that black bar stating that we can't have app X and have the install button disabled, we should see that same black bar but with a warning and the install button enabled irregardless.
If big brother is worried that because the app is known to have issues on our devices then they need only to disable the ability to rate the app for that specific user. But that's about it, as it's fairer to both parties involved. We shouldn't have to go through the hassle of having to have to keep looking for ways around something that only goes to further slow down progress, or downloading and installing APK files every time there's an update to our apps (some of which were paid for)!
We need to attack the disease at its source rather than treat the symptoms.
What the issue is basically is that "power" users prefer to use tweaked settings that the market doesn't like despite the fact that those same apps Google deems incompatible, when installed as APKs, actually work flawlessly.
I figured we should have this thread focus on the following issues:
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1. Have something of a Database (or at least a simple list for now) of all the apps that El Goog doesn't want us to install. Just to emphasize the issue as there are quite a bit of apps that work flawlessly and appear in the market, while others aren't (in some cases without the developer's own wishes or knowledge for that matter). And we then label them as working 100% perfectly well or buggy under conditions Y and Z.
We make the list of all apps that are known to be incompatible and actually are! So far I've not encountered a single one. And I've been using my freak device with its freaky settings for a year+ now.
2. This is something I'm still thinking about and am not 100% sure if should be done. Start a petition on Change.org and bring this to big brother's attention as he tends to ignore the little guy. In numbers there's strength.
3. Get a list of app developers who are aware of the issue and support our cause. The reason for three is because I've been in contact with one app developer who was turned down by big brother after pursuing help with this issue because they "don't provide support for custom roms." And it's OK that they don't, as it's reasonable enough. But give us the option of opting out if you think it's wise to, and opt in even if it might cause issue. We're adults for god's sake.
4. Make a list of currently available solutions to fix the so-called 'feature' while we're waiting for an actual fix.
I'll keep this post as updated as I can with the latest known and consistently updated fixes for this 'bug'. Yeah, I said it.
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So far every single app I used worked flawlessly on my I9100 running CM10 with DorimanX custom kernel. I've set the DPI to 160 and I can't imagine myself going back to anything above that. And to emphasize, I've had these setting (or at least the DPI and CM) for so long now (about a year) that I forget sometimes that I'm using something that isn't exactly 'standard', per se.
I mean, if you can live with the default dpi then that's cool, good for you. But I've had a taste of the forbidden fruit, and now I can't go back. . . .
I'm not going to start crusading just yet. First I'd like your, the community of XDA, input on this issue before we do anything. If you have any suggestions or criticism you'd like to share with us, I'd like to hear it, personally. For I may be wrong about the whole thing. Call it, lacking in confidence.
Thank you.

Reserved, just in case.

Also reserved, just in case.

Well this is fantastic. Congrats on the nerve for writing this freakishly long post. That's what I was thinking since the moment I encountered "I'm sorry, but we think this won't work as planned on your device and we deem you stupid enough to make wrong choices, so we'll just put this install button on this shelf right here, where you can't reach it" error.
However, I just said screw it, there's tons of sites where I can just download what I want without anyone questioning my motives and whether it will work or not. Never thought of it as a big deal, just as a tougher way of doing stuff, but not much I can do about it.
To get to the point, I support this cause, will sign whatever I need to sign, but am to lazy to start it myself Just wanted to give you some support. If you're willing to put some more time into this, maybe this is the beggining of a revolution! Revolution of geeks with custom DPIs! But it's still something damn it!
Cheers mate!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app

Thank you, Uros. I was happy to read your reply.
It seems that there is no interest in this, however. Very unfortunate, but I suppose if this is what the people want. . . . It was worth a try.

Thanks for your effort.

I am rather curious to know if this is because people were going "tl;dr" or they're genuinely not interested in having this issue fixed. I just need to know so that I could make the proper adjustments.
Granted, it would take a bit longer, but as Goethe said, "I apologize in advance, had I had more time, this letter would be shorter."
Or is it that most people believe that the odds of getting Google to listen to us are too small?

There's a reason why Google won't give us the option to install anyway, just as there's a reason as to why this probably hasn't been noticed by as many people as preferred.
It all comes down to noobs.
Regarding this thread, the noobs are probably coming across this thread and click because they're interested by the title. They see all the text and think "F&#k that!". Unfortunately, that is generally the noob mentality.
Maybe colouring some of the text and spacing it out a little bit more could help the cause, but only time would tell.
Now onto the matter at hand.
I personally don't think Google will allow us to install apps anyway (even though I think they should) because noobs are super dangerous to themselves. In general, noobs won't read which then means that if they go to install an app which isn't compatible and install it anyway, they won't read that it could potentially harm their device.
The other type of user to make a mistake when it comes to installing such apps, would be the general android population. After all, us here on XDA are but a small proportion of Android users globally. Just because we have knowledge about what should and shouldn't be on our devices and how to make things work which shouldn't, the average Android user isn't the same.
They'd probably see the message and simply think "It says it could harm my phone but it's a great phone so nothing will go wrong". That is where problems can then occur.
The noobs and the average android owner would then have mucked up their device in one way or another and would be blaming and complaining to Google (as if it was Google's mistake). That makes it cause more harm than good, hence why I don't think it will happen.
Just my 2 cents, of course
''Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver''

On "Original" Code

Hi, I submitted this complaint on originality through the XDA suggestions, however I'd like some community clarification too.
Hi, I recently started a hobby project here on XDA, which quite unabashedly forked a bunch of repos and picked a lot of commits, then worked to get it working for my device (Z5).
In all this I neither rebased nor changed the ownership.
While I did this I noticed a *LOT* of copied work which was simply rebranded and *NOT* forked.
I further was informed by the people I had forked that I was not supposed to fork their work although said work appeared to be a fork from another repo (though it wasn't actually forked, the file names matched)
I'm confused. Honestly.
Of features, it is known that there are very few original feature developers and they're great people.
The same features make their way across multiple roms, each with their own *cosmetic* changes (or sometimes by just rewriting the same thing). Each Rom then has an aggressive user and dev base to complain about people "copying" and not letting them get credit.
Is it really such a big deal?
I feel like it's probably less effort now to simply go the same route as many roms.
Upload a token "new" source on github by not forking repos but pushing local clones.
Is this what XDA endorses as original work?
If something is forked, isn't that a sign of respect? I feel appalled that, what honestly takes longer, after-all fixes are usually local and it's simple enough to do a hub create and push.
I took the effort of going, forking, cloning and re-doing my changes simply out of respect only to be told that my work is not original as I have "superficially" forked.
I know developers can't be everywhere. They can't develop for everyone.
This attitude of intolerance when the Roms are for DIFFERENT devices which they would NEVER support seems really sad.
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Some developers are really excellent about this sort of stuff, I'd like to think that they're the ones who believe in their own work and don't see the need to attack others. (The CarbonRom devs are excellent, so are the SonyAosp and LineageOS guys)
The issues crop up from the other "original" roms. Basically patchwork quilts of commits, code and ideas *without* recognition for the REAL devs.
I'd also like to clarify that I have nothing against Rule 12
Rule 12 also allows for no selective sharing, and considering that for most commits you're not the original author I really don't get it.
It's not like I simply pulled a device tree and built it for my device; then removed all references and tried to make money off it.
I had to adapt it and there are commits you have not added yet from other repos too. They're donations not paywalls.
Please clarify the matter.
Additionally I only posted the rom here in the first place because I remember how bad it felt to be kept away from all the nicer new features just because no-one takes the time out to build for your device.
I can't see why a donation link is offensive. I ensured something which I did not originally develop or claim to develop available to users of another device... with credits to the original authors!
I just don't see where this is coming from.
A lot of work around is also from MapleAOSP as I see it.... along with DU, UBERROMS, Pure-Nexus, AOSP dev sources etc.

Personally speaking - I am not offended, because it takes wit and effort to integrate everything and get it working, and IMHO every dev in the world stands on giants' shoulders, taking advantage from the work of others, and all efforts deserve some kind of reward, be it fame, praise, recognition, ... - or money. The donors decide the way they show their appreciation...
That having said, I mostly decide to support devs by buying their Pro apps that unlock some extra features. But I also donate money at times.. Because i feel it's only fair - I can't do development, I learned a different profession that I'm well paid for. Why not share a little in appreciation for the devs' work that I take advantage off?
Just my 2¢

"AOSiP experiment"

Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.

Sir what's going on?

I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...

Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please

Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...

i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all

I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.

Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!

He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )

Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )

Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.

I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.

Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.

Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him

alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Click to collapse
Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.

It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.

I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.

@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:

One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk

Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!