Database Info

Possible PSP-esque war between Google/Tmobile and hackers?

What does everyone think will happen with future revisions of Android in regards to the fork between the stock G1s with OTA updates and the hacked G1s with manual updates with the test keys?
Hopefully this doesn't turn into Sony's militant locking down of the PSP via every firmware upgrade. Even though I never owned a PSP, I thought it was absolutely insane that Sony would try so hard to keep people from using their purchased equipment in any way they wanted to.
I totally understand that Google had to release RC30 to shut down a GIGANTIC security exploit that could have (but not likely) been used compromise phones. I'm sure it's in their interest to keep a homogeneous G1 userbase but would they actively try to relock rooted phones?
I'm hoping they just leave the rooted G1s alone. Mostly because we bought the phones and they are OURS. We are obligated to stay with Tmobile until the contract is up because the price is subsidized but we are not obligated (in my opinion) to retain the software they were shipped with. Obviously if my phone has a software problem I won't be calling Tmobile. On the other hand, if there is a hardware defect I'm certainly reflashing RC30 and sending it back under warranty.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. I think it was great that Tmobile UK was good enough to open a dialog about possibly allowing root access but I don't think they really understand what "root access" is or care as long as they sell phones under contract. I don't think Google really cares either since they have open sourced all of the OS that we are modifying which is in the spirit of Open Source Software anyway. I think as long as they get their marketshare, they will be happy.

I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers...next i dont thnk that google would do this but t-moble might.But in my opinion i think they will as soon as they start hacking the pay apps. that will start later this year.

HOGWILD said:
I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers
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Hogwild hit the nail right on the head. I don't think T-Mo/HTC will engage in a drawn out battle to "steal" back root simply because there is no real financial motivation to do so. I'm of the mind that it's best not to begin speculating unless one of the aforementioned company takes a step in that direction. There's no point whipping up another possible flame-war over something that might never happen.

Ya I agree they are our phones 1 thing you left out not everybody is under contract some ppl paid full price on a prepaid 90 service plan then they get their unlock code. Some people didn't qualify for the upgrade price of 179$ and some people are under contract eiither of all three it is owned by the user the day they signed or paid. Tmobile won't take back a used g1 for failure to honor the 2 year agreement they will bill the customer.
So the whole open source push... and market. There and hundreds of. Thousands of programmers who make programs for the love of advancing "things" look how popular sourceforge is. So you get people who will create a program and demand a nominal fee say 14.95 the dev only gets 70% of the price and the wireless carrier get 30% for nothing. I . Defently there being an underground "market place" that bypasses that standard one to allow people to download free apps. The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
My 2 cents

diabolical28 said:
The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
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There are a lot of idiots in the world with money to waste. Rest assured, the paid apps will have retarded comments as well.

qft
rabble:rabble

Wow I hate people that don't know what they talking bout. I wanna clear up a few thing. Being a psp dev I can tell you it wasn't bout the hacking and homebrew. the psp updates were to stop piracy. Btw most exploit on psp were by sony. If you own a psp atlease you would know a little about the scene. Secondly, the root bug is dangerous to us. Google own dev are helping us htc people are leaking tools and t-mobile always let us screw them over. So no it not gonna be no war going on it all for our safety untill the software is right. As you can see we're like test bunnys and when a bug you should be greatful that they release update. So while I love having root access it not that serious right now it just would be right to compare this to the iphone jailbreak scene. Once paid app are here I wouldn't be shock if update start coming to block test key and resigning to respect developer work. Read before posting and short answer no unless as needed

There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.

danguyf said:
There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.
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Correct. And you can bet that there will be handsets running builds of Android not maintained by Google which will not run Android Market. Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves. I'm concerned that that fracturing of the ecosystem will impede overall market acceptance. And i'm not even talking about the inevitable outcome of Android "strains" that slowly become sdk incompatible with each other.
Here's a posting I made on android-platform and Dianne Hackborn's response:
Right, I'm thinking along the device manufacturer side of things. As
an imperfect analogy, is the Android team okay with manufacturers
producing their own Android builds which may be slightly incompatible
with each other (a la Symbian's various flavors), or will all
manufacturers be encouraged/required to adhere to some technical
requirements checklists in order to brand their phone as Android-
powered? (more like say Windows Mobile).
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We won't, this is something we will be actively discouraging (or from a
positive perspective, doing whatever we can to encourage android devices
to be compatible).
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Of course with an open source project "actively discouraging" can only go so far...

jashsu said:
Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves.
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The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."

From what I've heard from Google folks, they aren't that interested in the root thing, that is more a carrier issue. However, the way people originally got root was a serious issue. Not directly because you could get root, but because it was an outright silly bug than could potentially raise havoc on your device if you happened to type the wrong thing on your keyboard.

JesusFreke said:
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."
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I imagine the billing settlement fees could be rather sizeable. I don't run a credit card processing company, but i've seen $.20 - $.30 per transaction thrown around. That's in line with Paypal's fees.
We'll see if other manufacturer/carrier matchups continue to use Android Market. I wouldn't be surprised to see them create their own markets though, simply because if it's possible and there's the slightest financial incentive to do so, eventually someone will do it.

I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Sony did not want homebrew for multiple reasons. The obvious one is ISO playback. No matter what they did, warez was possible. Even back before we had perfected the actual emulation, we could simply patch calls to disc0:/ to ms0:/ and load the EBOOT. If we hadn't figured out how (the first one to truly do it was UMD Emulator, which would patch many of the PSP calls to make it MUCH smoother/more compatible), we could simply expand on this.
The second reason is that we were stepping on their toes, so to speak. They wanted to have many more downloadable minigames that could be booted off of the memstick, something we did years before them. I doubt they liked that we were doing what they planned, and doing it much better/faster.
Thirdly, they were responsible for all bricked devices. Although their unbricking process has always been easy, it costs them time/shipping. It's still a pain and costly for them to do it massively.
This is why they combated it on the PSP so much. On the standard Playstations, they've never had to worry about it this much. They didn't have memory cards that you could easily throw ISOs on, they didn't have any easily loaded software that would allow you to boot them, etc. You had to buy hardware devices (hdloader, the swap program (ffs can't remember the name), or modchips). Pirating the PSP was SO much easier.
Now, onto the G1... a Google employee has already (off the record, speaking for himself, not Google) that they should have just given us root access, especially if HTC was going to be so careless with their NBH images.
If every one was given root access, cracking paid applications would be much easier. Well, that is the belief. In reality, cracking them will be a sinch. With easily done byte code modification, and resigning the APK, I doubt there's an application that CAN'T be cracked. As long as you could install apps from browser/SD card, you can crack them. Even if they locked it down to market only, we could spoof DNS servers and run "unofficial" markets with cracked applications. This wouldn't require root access at all.
(excuse any typos, it's 10F outside atm and I'm trying to smoke.)

Gary13579 said:
I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
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I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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The last time I used my PSP was a year ago, as a flash drive so I could reformat my computer. I haven't actually *used* it in years, so anything you saw on QJ wasn't about the real Gary .
But yes that's me, and I was an admin at Dash Hacks.

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Click to collapse
Lol what? fIRC lets you connect to any server and any channel.

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Click to collapse
http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/

Android could be killed off by suppliers

Found this interesting Article on Fudzilla regarding how Android could be killed off by the suppliers of the phones. Figured I would share
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item/21611-android-could-be-killed-off-by-suppliers

Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I pretty much summed up the article that if, Google doesn't take tighter control of how the suppliers are updating the phones, and if Google themselves do not ease up on releasing updates, then it might drive people away from Android phones due to the lack of support.

Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.

Well said and very true
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

A majority of customers don't care about updating the firmware of the phone. If it works, they won't complain. If it doesn't work, they'll bring it back for a warranty repair or simply get a new phone.

johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, i'm right outside that 10% bunch, but i'm just 17 and if i **** up my phone it won't be so good for me. I rooted, but i guess i am dumb enough not to know terminals and flashing and pushing stuff here and there
Anyhow- Android won't be killed. That's like when they said Linux was to be killed off in the early 2000's because Windows machines were supplied with an X amount of memory (about a 100mb extra than those running a distro)

Won't happen I mean come on what you think is the alternative? They want to pay the license? What happens if upgrade comes? who you think will pick up RIM? lol they are dead who else iOS? Sorry thats for iPanzy and who use that come on now, only other alternative is WM.
Also who wants to fight big Google? You think they will let it go easy? They can buy the ****ing company out and change the decision if they cared to just to send single message. Also then you have the user who can and is doing what they want hence you are on XDA? F the carrier support thats like saying you are bound to software hence your PC?
But the biggest problem with mobile world is the hardware which is not actually openly shared as opposed to computing world, where one can actually code the driver for support. BTW voddles your last sentence didn't make sense what so ever take it from someone who been using Slackware since it was created.

I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Search function is limited too (In Market and others) It's impossible to editing an old search, you have to enter everything again.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Wanna have a new non Win, IOS, Bada, Android or Nokia stuff. Phone OS. Now.
Will not follow your guys inte 2.2 or 2.3

Journalism just seems to go down the toilet in the highly competitive virtual world of the internet.
"While HTC appears to be ahead of the game at getting new updates to uses, some outfits, particularly Motorola are developing a jolly bad name for themselves. You could upgrade yourself but he problem is getting your paws on unlocked boot loaders. Motorola's upcoming phones have locked bootloaders."
Locked bootloaders have nothing to do with official updates.
"However it looks to us like Google is going to need to put its foot down fast before the suppliers start killing off its operating system. The last thing people want is to get an Android phone and find it can't do something that has been advertised because some phone maker could not be bothered upgrading."
Put its foot down on a free OS? Ads go out advertising that all Android phones support roms? That all Android phone are upgradeable to the latest, greatest Android OS?
The whole article looks to be written by someone attempting to be sensational but really has no clue.
I remember when Android was new and you had all these manufacturers "skinning" Android. I was worried that a user may confuse a skin with the primary OS and incorrectly give credit or blame to that skin. People seem to love Sense UI and hate Motoblur. You impression of Android could vary depending on if you used an HTC vs a Motorola. That clearly did not happen.

Blåburk said:
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
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Click to collapse
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Click to expand...
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If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
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'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?

Never gonna happen.
ksizzle9 said:
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Everything said here is somewhat true and somewhat false. We all have our opinions, we all have different expectations from our phones...
What i don't understand is, and i say this from a developer perspective, why would any mobile device manufacturer, like Sony, lock out their devices? Same goes for Apple etc etc
I mean, i think far more ppl would actually buy their products if they know that they have a open device and that it can run on all carriers. I mean, i actually bought my 1st iPhone just because of the fact that someone made an unlock tool so u could use it outside of AT&T networks...
As for the OS side, Android wont die ofc, and i believe its a good thing that Google publishes updates to it so fast. This means they are really dedicated to the project and that they really care for developers so they can make much better apps, with more features and capabilities.

voddles said:
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
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Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Just one remark a phone made by SE but using the Google Android do have a somethings with the Google to do, doesn't it.
The rest of what you wrote is not worth comments.
Sorry for upsetting you

When do you think an android OS for desktops will be created?

Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
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LOL now thats comedy.
I have to somewhat agree with you about the virtual keyboard. Now coming from HD2 which has the best stock keyboard I have ever seen. The arrow key and able to select via drag is best when you typing but on AOSP the whole idea is retarded. I can still type every fast but not fast as I once was on HD2 then again where is that whole 4.3" out there.

Nice read but those publishers are idiots.

I personally am always going to be sticking with HTC. They usually update most of there phones and even if they dont someone will have rooted it and just made a <insert android version here> rom. Plus even if no one can root it i still love Htc Sense and it looks 100x better than Motoblur or whatever Sony uses.

Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
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Now now children... please lighten up, much more important things in this world to be getting upset or to "fight" over... honestly...
a subs0nic G2 bass cann0n blast0id via andr0id

so true.....only 10% of peopel like us know what we really want to do with our phones....

This kind of making unlocking a possibility?..

http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/15/breaking-google-buys-motorola-for-12-5-billion/
Google just announced that it is acquiring Motorola Mobility. The search and online advertising company is buying the company for approximately $12.5 billion (or $40 per share), in cash. The price represents a premium of 63 percent to the closing price of Motorola Mobility shares last Friday. Google had about $39 billion in cash at last count.
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Maybe we might see some unlocked boot loaders then.

Google has lost a lot of my respect and at this point I find it unlikely they will do anything for us or even the droid 3. More likely moto knew this was comming so told us they would be unlocking devices knowing it soon would be out of there hands. I'd bet google won't even give us the code for blur.

Something tells me people these days don't even read.
Motorola Mobility remains a separate business.
This means that everything Motorola owns stays its own. I also would bet that the management won't change as well. Blur is Motorola's “image”, their UI trademark. Why would they open it?
Nothing will be out of Motorola's hands. It's just that with this acquisition, unlocking becomes something that is more likely to happen than before.

gogle need motorola for their patents to fight the patent lawsuits

I think Google are getting tired of having their butts kicked in the patent war, the only defense is a strong offence, they are just looking to increase their ability to counter MS and the other companies who are going after Android.
Having said that I seriously doubt that Google are not planning something else.
I would guess that they might well push for unlocked boot loaders, they could point to it as a reason why they are still different and not just another Apple/Ms.
I suspect they realise that with a combination of Motorola for hardware and Android for OS and tight control and integration between the 2 they could make a mainstream iPhone killer a reality quickly, and be the ones that profit from it.
To a great extent it seems to me that the manufacturers of many android devices are spoiling the potential for the OS with their marketing/attempts to be different/incompetence/lack of vision . One would have to assume that a device that has the same people in charge or the OS and hardware would kick ass.
Unfortunately the biggest winners are probably going to be the patent lawyers, sigh...

i created a thread how to unlock, works for me, check my thread

NightmareT said:
i created a thread how to unlock, works for me, check my thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TurboSIM/SmartSIM is unreliable at best. Come back again when people start telling you your phone goes to voice mail (if you use one). This method was discussed here and beaten to death. Please search before opening new thread next time.

Cyngn, OnePlus, Micromax - The Legal Battle (Portal thread comments)

This thread is available for comments on the featured portal article.

Thanks for the extensive read! Too bad that a community project like CyanogenMod will be harmed through the company that controls it.. I am waiting for a move from OnePlus, they should be able to build a good case.

it's a clear case of back biting by Cyanogen Inc. They have done this to a lot of developers when Cyanogen Inc was formed, and now they do this do their partner.
The emails sent by Kirt clearly show they were aware of what the agreement was, and that they had already decided to end the relationship with OnePlus. Those emails are rude as hell and I guess Kirt needs a rap for that.
Micromax is nothing but an Indian company who has put a brand name on Chinese phones. Yeps Chinese phones were very popular in India and with Android all they needed was to put a name on phones. Yes, they do sell like hot cakes because of the pricing but yes they are no-where close in terms of quality to HTC or Sony.
All in all, a bad move by Cyanogen and it's not the first time. Yes, they may be pioneers in the Android custom rom world but right now it's the success getting to them and they are going to fall hard.
What can I do about it, well ever since the incident with xplodwild I have stopped using CyanogenMod or any roms based of it. Yes, I want the latest Android version running on my device but not from someone who cheats and stabs people behind the back.
It's time for PA, Omni, Slimkat and others to rise to the occasion. Yes, building a rom as popular as CM will take time but patience is the key.
Over and Out.
Edit
One thing I forgot to mention, I am from India and trust me I would never buy a MicroMax device even if it's running CM. I wanted to buy a OnePlus One but after all the lies they had in the basket I had to pass. Yes, I want the latest hardware at the cheapest price but not from peeps who lie.
PS:- This is my personal opinion
Peace.

Looking forward to California Case. Anyways, XDA has many AOSP roms other than CM running good on OPO. Any device that gets love of people/dev stays alive.
Looks little dangerous for startup hardware partners.

I'm an OnePlus and CM customer (not only a user, I've paid for their products) and I'm worried. I though OPO was going to be CM flagship and they were going to make an effort to show they can produce and deliver good software, I'm afraid I can't confirm that.
Of course Micromax is a more lucrative project but they have customers.
I chose OPO because of the hardware and because of CM, I've been using CM for years. I didn't chose this phone for the money, I could have paid $600 for another phone, I just didn't like any other phone, I trust Nexus line mostly because of the software but I don't like Nexus 6 so CM software was a nice solution at the time.
So my next phone won't come with CM since I can't trust this company anymore. For me the most important point to choose a phone is software support and CM is no different than Samsung or LG updating their products.

Thats Ridiculously Buggy
I don't understand how childish The cyanogen team's action to send an email and just cut off a tie with legally well documented contract with oneplus.by the way,its us...the users will suffer the most.Maybe oneplus will move on with the launch of their own ROM for their devices but I doubt cyanogenmod's future and reputation in the Dev forums...

Kirt deserved my piss.
They (Cyanogen Inc) have dropped the development dreams since back then when Cyanogen Inc was up and running. And since then too so many good dev's noticed it and left Cyanogen Inc to start a better one like Omni's/PA's.
It is sad to see a super-great phone development, aimed for the enthusiasts, went this way. Cyanogen = Bad for business. They were like stupid cartels in Mexico downtown. Their rom is not that excellent anyway, i am more interested on AOSP-based team nowadays.

guille26 said:
I'm an OnePlus and CM customer (not only a user, I've paid for their products) and I'm worried. I though OPO was going to be CM flagship and they were going to make an effort to show they can produce and deliver good software, I'm afraid I can't confirm that.
Of course Micromax is a more lucrative project but they have customers.
I chose OPO because of the hardware and because of CM, I've been using CM for years. I didn't chose this phone for the money, I could have paid $600 for another phone, I just didn't like any other phone, I trust Nexus line mostly because of the software but I don't like Nexus 6 so CM software was a nice solution at the time.
So my next phone won't come with CM since I can't trust this company anymore. For me the most important point to choose a phone is software support and CM is no different than Samsung or LG updating their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing I have to say is - I've spoken to one member of OnePlus' new internal software team. If the rest of the team as as competent as he is (as in: I know his work and he's smart), they'll do well.
You make a good point - Cyngn is doing a lot of things that people used to go to CyanogenMod to get away from. What is interesting is that OEMs are also noticing this market trend, which is why you're seeing Motorola put forth minimal skinning (a massive difference from the disaster that was Blur), and Sony's skins are fairly light and minimal. (In my opinion, they are done with enough care that they're almost always a positive improvement. Sony devices are the only ones where I've frequently found no desire to unlock the bootloader to flash something else or even to root. My Xperia Z3 is STILL, after more than a month, bone-stock. I'll eventually work on Omni for it, but right now... It's nice and solid as it is, it would be hard to improve upon that.)
Similarly, OnePlus' new team are intelligent enough to realize that just by doing a base Qualcomm CAF bringup with a few minor tweaks, you can actually do far better than the OEMs that go overboard with ricing.
As to Kirt - of interest is his past work. He was the founder of Boost Mobile.
Also of interest is that Cyngn has signed a pretty juicy exclusivity deal with an OEM that is universally hated in those areas where Cyanogen has brand recognition.

Entropy512 said:
Also of interest is that Cyngn has signed a pretty juicy exclusivity deal with an OEM that is universally hated in those areas where Cyanogen has brand recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We Indians change our phones a lot. The reason for that is we are not tied to any carrier contracts with our devices, we buy them at full price. We loose our phones, break them, they get stolen whatever be the reason but we change phones whether it's by choice or by force.
That's one the reasons we cannot spend 50,000 INR on a device every time we buy one, we have to look for cheap options and that's where Micromax cashed in. Touchscreen phones from a brand for less than 15,000 INR is good enough.
Very rarely do people care about the quality, all they want is a touch screen phone. Now the nerds and techies like us know the truth about Mediatek devices and that's why we prefer OEM's like HTC, Samsung, Sony etc.
But Micromax, No way! I was even surprised when Google tied up Micromax, karbonn and Spice. All of these supposed OEM's have just rebranded Chinese phones and put Android on them.
The only truly Indian OEM which I had hope from was Notion Ink, but they couldn't compete with the big guns.

"as long as OnePlus didn’t breach the agreement in the first 30 days, Cyanogen “shall not engage in the integration of CyanogenMod with any other mobile device manufacturer for the purpose of distributing such device in the permitted territory”."
This part of the article is incorrect as if you look at what was actually written in the report it states:
"Provided OnePlus is not in breach of this Agreement, for a period of thirty (30) days after the Launch Date, Cyanogen shall not engage in the integration of CyanogenMod with any other mobile device manufacturer..."
If you look at the position of the comma in the actual statement in the report, you can see that these conditions are only applicable for the first 30 days after launch

How disheartening that Cyanogen has gone so corporate so fast. I wonder if it's just the new faces they have for the company and Steve Kondik & Co. were as surprised by what happened as OnePlus was. I can't imagine the actual devs have changed that much, but they definitely let the new corporate "suits" they hired run them into the ground fast.......

WA_Bob said:
How disheartening that Cyanogen has gone so corporate so fast. I wonder if it's just the new faces they have for the company and Steve Kondik & Co. were as surprised by what happened as OnePlus was. I can't imagine the actual devs have changed that much, but they definitely let the new corporate "suits" they hired run them into the ground fast.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't even corporate. This is like kids playing monopoly.
How can you terminate a contract, by just a one line email?
Sadly, I'm running CM on 4 of my devices(including the 1+1). I think I'll go and find alternatives now.

I guess we can almost sum up all these disputes through this sentence: "... choosing to not issue updates to a device for political [and economic] reasons". Business is business. We do not care about users.
Political & economic purposes against faith & community.

vvarma1 said:
"as long as OnePlus didn’t breach the agreement in the first 30 days, Cyanogen “shall not engage in the integration of CyanogenMod with any other mobile device manufacturer for the purpose of distributing such device in the permitted territory”."
This part of the article is incorrect as if you look at what was actually written in the report it states:
"Provided OnePlus is not in breach of this Agreement, for a period of thirty (30) days after the Launch Date, Cyanogen shall not engage in the integration of CyanogenMod with any other mobile device manufacturer..."
If you look at the position of the comma in the actual statement in the report, you can see that these conditions are only applicable for the first 30 days after launch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well spotted, I had already rectified this in the article and marked it as a correction, then I saw this comment. You are correct in that the exclusivity on integration assistance was a 30 day deal.

So my question is, will this mean that CM is going to stop updating international OPO's in the future? That's going to piss a lot of people off, and I'm going to have to be the one to explain to my fiance why my phone advice to her turned bad.
Might be time for me to convince her to let me replace it with Omni or something else.

dibblebill said:
So my question is, will this mean that CM is going to stop updating international OPO's in the future? That's going to piss a lot of people off, and I'm going to have to be the one to explain to my fiance why my phone advice to her turned bad.
Might be time for me to convince her to let me replace it with Omni or something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what Kirk said ("Carl. We will be terminating our relationship with one plus. I will get back to you with more details shortly."), there might well be issues. Nobody knows, but that kind of message seems rather like CM are ending working with 1+.
It is rather unusual though - you don't "break" a contract by telling the other party you will do it, and send details later. That's just not how you do business. You negotiate the specifics, and try to have a clean, quiet, and drama-free break-up, without headlines or press releases. Both sides would discuss the terms and settlements, and legal would sign off on it. That's how it usually works. In this case, this is highly unusual.

pulser_g2 said:
From what Kirk said ("Carl. We will be terminating our relationship with one plus. I will get back to you with more details shortly."), there might well be issues. Nobody knows, but that kind of message seems rather like CM are ending working with 1+.
It is rather unusual though - you don't "break" a contract by telling the other party you will do it, and send details later. That's just not how you do business. You negotiate the specifics, and try to have a clean, quiet, and drama-free break-up, without headlines or press releases. Both sides would discuss the terms and settlements, and legal would sign off on it. That's how it usually works. In this case, this is highly unusual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that struck me as REALLY strange and more than a little bit off-putting. I agree, it is certainly not "usual behavior", even among backstabbing companies out there.
I'm wondering if I shouldn't root her device for her, TiBackup everything, and migrate her to another ROM or something.

pulser_g2 said:
Well spotted, I had already rectified this in the article and marked it as a correction, then I saw this comment. You are correct in that the exclusivity on integration assistance was a 30 day deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that means One plus One broke their side of contracts , since Cyno' went ahead and entered into agreement with Micromax.
It will be pretty nice to keep tabs on this topic as it enters into Californian Courts,
As I am pretty much sure that this will be having much (bad?) effect on the whole Licensing ecosystem of Android modding (say like Slimkat, PA etc whoever decides in future to go Cyano way.)
ps : It seems the funny part that " Sent from Ipad "sig was not noticed by Kirk while sending the email.

So, CM has become something to avoid... very, very sad.
As previously said, all this clearly shows that unfortunately CM (the company) has no interest in the benefit of its users, and they only intention is in lining their pockets as soon as possible, by any means and forgetting any ethics. So, that also means that as users we should avoid CM and any device or system that depends on it, and so reccomend to NOT BUY devices as those form OnePlus and MicroMax that uses it: CM has become a stain that corrupts the devices on which it resides. Lets hope OnePlus develops as soon as possible an alternate OS ***AND RELEASES IT IN AN OPEN ENOUGH LICENSE*** so we can reccomend its devices again to our friends. Also, lets hope that, if CM (the company) has any legal responsabilities as it appears to be, they become clear soon enough in a judgement and if so, any repairement measures are made available to OnePlus because they seem to be, after end users, the most wronged party in this sad development.
In my opinion, the truly back guys in this story are clearly those running the company CM.

Not so fast.
People who wanted to switch, how about waiting for a OnePlus made ROM to come out next year? Lollipop based
https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/contest-oneplus-rom-you-name-it.208689/

Next steps for Samsung Nougat and Substratum

To all our Samsung Nougat Rootless users. We thank you dearly for journeying with us into being the first modularized external-OEM-based theming system. You guys have been wonderful and although there have been many ups and downs, our team would like to thank each and every one of you!
Now come Android Oreo for Samsung users, we have to unfortunately state that we will no longer be supporting Nougat’s Sungstratum Addon as they are running on a completely different theming system. As we have BIG plans with Andromeda, we plan to keep it updated even when users upgrade to 9.0.
Instead of maintaining multiple complex projects just to end up abandoning support on an Oreo version of Sungstratum, would cause more code hiccups and potential bugs. So we decided that we would drop the price of Andromeda at a 50% discount for the next 4 days - STARTING ON FEBRUARY 15TH 00:00GMT, TO THE 19TH’s 23:59GMT!
Again, we know to those who are disappointed, we would definitely want to help but our redemption codes are limited to 500/quarter, which would be reserved for upcoming, more frequent giveaways! To our current dedicated substratum users on Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung, Essential, Honor and the like, with Oreo, we would like to thank all of you!
We understand many people would not be content about this, but also if we made amazing changes for andromeda and people from samsung gets the crappier end of the deal, it would be even worse. The idea of andromeda - comes from the idea that everyone is part of the same galaxy now, and it is universalized.
We would like to clarify that the addon for Nougat support is NOT dead and the addon will keep working as long as you are running Android Nougat - as the addon advertised since day one in the description.

Well said @sykopompos ! It will be much better to have everyone on the same page

I'm not gonna pay again for something I've already paid for
Before making such harsh decisons users opinion should be taken in consideration
I'm not gonna pay for another app
You guys should play fair for those who have alreadg purchased the app should get the app free rather than paying for it again
sykopompos said:
To all our Samsung Nougat Rootless users. We thank you dearly for journeying with us into being the first modularized external-OEM-based theming system. You guys have been wonderful and although there have been many ups and downs, our team would like to thank each and every one of you!
Now come Android Oreo for Samsung users, we have to unfortunately state that we will no longer be supporting Nougat’s Sungstratum Addon as they are running on a completely different theming system. As we have BIG plans with Andromeda, we plan to keep it updated even when users upgrade to 9.0.
Instead of maintaining multiple complex projects just to end up abandoning support on an Oreo version of Sungstratum, would cause more code hiccups and potential bugs. So we decided that we would drop the price of Andromeda at a 50% discount for the next 4 days - STARTING ON FEBRUARY 15TH 00:00GMT, TO THE 19TH’s 23:59GMT!
Again, we know to those who are disappointed, we would definitely want to help but our redemption codes are limited to 500/quarter, which would be reserved for upcoming, more frequent giveaways! To our current dedicated substratum users on Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung, Essential, Honor and the like, with Oreo, we would like to thank all of you!
We understand many people would not be content about this, but also if we made amazing changes for andromeda and people from samsung gets the crappier end of the deal, it would be even worse. The idea of andromeda - comes from the idea that everyone is part of the same galaxy now, and it is universalized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Definitively unfair. People like me who supported you by purchasing your app are the ones who are getting hurt. Asking us to pay again for a new app with "50% discount" sounds to me like you could care less about your loyal customers and only care about getting more money in your pockets.
You can give promo codes, make the app free for a few days, convert the old app into a license key to unlock the new app, etc. Anything to be fair to us instead of ignoring us.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I think everyone complaining about how they have to pay twice isn't understanding just how much work it took to make Andromeda. It's not just a few more lines of code, they had to completely redo how theming worked. The way it's implemented in Nougat vs Oreo couldn't be more different.
Not to mention, it's $3. You guys are really complaining about $3? Skip your morning coffee or better yet, just don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to pay $3. Want to use Substratum for free? Root your phone. Don't have root and don't want to pay? Go make your own, then you'll really see how much work it is. In fact, I'll bet you won't be asking for $3 afterwards. Maybe more like $50. It's open source, after all, so go crazy and have fun.

xDark_ said:
I think everyone complaining about how they have to pay twice isn't understanding just how much work it took to make Andromeda. It's not just a few more lines of code, they had to completely redo how theming worked. The way it's implemented in Nougat vs Oreo couldn't be more different.
Not to mention, it's $3. You guys are really complaining about $3? Skip your morning coffee or better yet, just don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to pay $3. Want to use Substratum for free? Root your phone. Don't have root and don't want to pay? Go make your own, then you'll really see how much work it is. In fact, I'll bet you won't be asking for $3 afterwards. Maybe more like $50. It's open source, after all, so go crazy and have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really dislike people like you. Honestly it could been a $1.. I m more than welcome to purchase. But it's the principal of me purchasing a key already. It's like if the dev of sdmaid or other Debs that has keys sent an email saying we are having another key, and the pervious that you paid for wouldn't work.. That's not a proper way to do things and I know I'll get heat for saying that (which I don't care). I understand how much went to it, trust me I wanted to switch my phone to opo to just use substratum... But saying stuff is just $3 that's not how things should work especially if I helped out already

xDark_ said:
I think everyone complaining about how they have to pay twice isn't understanding just how much work it took to make Andromeda. It's not just a few more lines of code, they had to completely redo how theming worked. The way it's implemented in Nougat vs Oreo couldn't be more different.
Not to mention, it's $3. You guys are really complaining about $3? Skip your morning coffee or better yet, just don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to pay $3. Want to use Substratum for free? Root your phone. Don't have root and don't want to pay? Go make your own, then you'll really see how much work it is. In fact, I'll bet you won't be asking for $3 afterwards. Maybe more like $50. It's open source, after all, so go crazy and have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dislike users like you with your mindset. <Mod Snip> It does not matter how much it is. It could be $0.99 for all I care. I am NOT paying for another app when I already paid for the Samsung Substratum add-on. The developer could easily give those users a free promo code but they would rather have them pay for another app again so they could increase their revenue. That's not fair from the end user's point of view.
A Reddit user put it best: "Sorry, just buy our other app! And in 6 months we'll make a newer, better one! You also need to buy that one too."

milojoseph said:
I really dislike people like you. Honestly it could been a $1.. I m more than welcome to purchase. But it's the principal of me purchasing a key already. It's like if the dev of sdmaid or other Debs that has keys sent an email saying we are having another key, and the pervious that you paid for wouldn't work.. That's not a proper way to do things and I know I'll get heat for saying that (which I don't care). I understand how much went to it, trust me I wanted to switch my phone to opo to just use substratum... But saying stuff is just $3 that's not how things should work especially if I helped out already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the SD Maid analogy doesn't work. But here's one that does:
Google goes ahead and completely revamps how the file system works in Android 9.0, thus breaking all apps that use the filesystem, like Solid or SD Maid. The dev(s) takes weeks and months rewriting the code so it works on 9.x and when they're done, they've pretty much recoded the entire app.
So you're saying because you and others paid $1 for the app in 2016, they should get nothing in return for weeks of work?
If the dev updates the app it could potentially break functionality for people on lower versions. If they make it a separate app but use the same license key app as their older version, they're still not getting any money. $1 is a bag of chips. Rent isn't $1. Utilities aren't $1. Hell, $1 doesn't even start to cover how much work the dev had to do to get the app running again. Not to mention that means the dev now has to maintain two codebases and two sets of users, all off your one dollar.
And don't give me BS about "oh why not just add a donate button" because everyone and their mom's know damn well no one clicks that shxt.
So, why did I use that particular example? Because that's what the Substratum devs had to do. Do me a favor: go to the Sungstratum GitHub and the Andromeda GitHub and compare how many lines of code are different and the same.
So tell me, how are things supposed to be done?
Would you prefer it to be free and have them show ads?
Or maybe you would've preferred it to be 100% free so the devs get very little to no tangible support for their efforts?
(Which, BTW, that option exists - root your phone and you don't need Andromeda.)
Again, don't like it? The app itself is open source on GitHub, so feel free to make your own implementation that's free. Hell, I'm sure the devs would even encourage you to.
haloali said:
I dislike users like you with your mindset. <Mod Snip> It does not matter how much it is. It could be $0.99 for all I care. I am NOT paying for another app when I already paid for the Samsung Substratum add-on. The developer could easily give those users a free promo code but they would rather have them pay for another app again so they could increase their revenue. That's not fair from the end user's point of view.
A Reddit user put it best: "Sorry, just buy our other app! And in 6 months we'll make a newer, better one! You also need to buy that one too."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So don't. Who's forcing you to? Substratum isn't SystemUI, you don't need to buy it or else you can't use your phone.
And I've already addressed the "I already paid for it!" argument above.
So I'll offer the same challenge to you: look at the source of Sungstratum and Andromeda and see how many changes were made.

Well I bought the Sungstratum add-on so I deserve this 'Andromeda' app for free
Sent from my [device_name] using XDA-Developers Legacy app

xDark_ said:
So tell me, how are things supposed to be done?
Would you prefer it to be free and have them show ads?
Or maybe you would've preferred it to be 100% free so the devs get very little to no tangible support for their efforts?
(Which, BTW, that option exists - root your phone and you don't need Andromeda.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not thinking. They made an app that users paid for that they expected to work for the whole time that they had it. If you pay for an app, you EXPECT the developer to update & continue to make it work with newer versions. These devs are just making a new app and saying, "Oh, sorry guys! You have to buy this new version which works with the new system updates."
That's like a car manufacturer saying, "Oh, sorry. This car you bought last year is not able to be driven on highways any more. You have to buy this new car to be able to drive on the highway now. Don't like it? Go build your own car." It's the stupidest **** I've ever seen and users like you are arguing FOR this. I just don't understand your logic.
I expect the developers to let the users who already paid for it upgrade to the new version for free. It's what the customers are expecting. Anything else is retarded.

haloali said:
You're not thinking. They made an app that users paid for that they expected to work for the whole time that they had it. If you pay for an app, you EXPECT the developer to update & continue to make it work with newer versions. These devs are just making a new app and saying, "Oh, sorry guys! You have to buy this new version which works with the new system updates."
That's like a car manufacturer saying, "Oh, sorry. This car you bought last year is not able to be driven on highways any more. You have to buy this new car to be able to drive on the highway now. Don't like it? Go build your own car." It's the stupidest **** I've ever seen and users like you are arguing FOR this. I just don't understand your logic.
I expect the developers to let the users who already paid for it upgrade to the new version for free. It's what the customers are expecting. Anything else is retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read what I wrote? Samsung changed how theming worked so much from Nougat to get in line with how every other OEM would implement overlays on Oreo. This meant Sungstratum was pretty much worthless and pretty much had to be completely rewritten. Not to mention, Andromeda isn't Samsung-specific. It works for most, if not all, devices on Oreo.
It would be more akin if the US government decided to put regulations on self-driving cars, saying they had to have certain software installed and third-party hardware checks before they could be used out on the road, around the same time the Tesla Model 4 was released. Unfortunately, Tesla's Model 3 and lower with autopilot don't meet these standards set by the US government and Tesla can't upgrade older vehicles to meet those standards (remember autopilot v2?) due to logistical and money reasons. This means that Tesla will have to disable autopilot on all 3's and lower - it can still drive normally, but just no autopilot.
This would make you angry, yes, but it's necessary. Tesla isn't going to give you a brand new Model 4 for free nor are they going to upgrade your existing car. But now that there are known regulations in place, future Tesla vehicles won't have this issue. But that means in the short term, Model 3 and lower users are screwed. And what's Tesla gonna do? Probably give you $5,000 off a new Model 4 or something, or they may do nothing at all.
It's a similar thing with Samsung. Google and OEMs have decided to finally implemented a standardized way to installing overlays on Oreo. However, the new implementation is incompatible with Sungstratum. And for the mean time, Sungstratum users are screwed. But now that OEMs have decided on a proper way of doing overlays, this means that Andromeda will work for the foreseeable future and not a hacked up solution like Sungstratum/Samsung's Nougat implementation.
Not to mention, this money helps fund Substratum development. Ya know, the base app that can theme apps? The one that's free? That isn't free to them - servers, developers, they all cost money. If Subs goes, theming goes.
But if you really do want to use Andromeda for free, just root your phone.

Meh
Well paying $1-3 isnt the problem the problem is that it isn't my headache that what the developers have to do. I paid for something and i need support for it you just can't abadon a project and leave all user fustrated cuz a team of devs wants to make money every 6 months of so. That ain't fare to the users and in google play terms. All devs are transfering keys and i don't see them crying
Solution to combat the issue
Make the app free for 24 hours
Make the previous a key for this app to work then only users that have bought the app can access the new app and you guys will still get new users
Ask for a donation rather than imposing one i will happily donate but if you devs plan to use cheap tricks to get a new app that ain't happening
sykopompos said:
To all our Samsung Nougat Rootless users. We thank you dearly for journeying with us into being the first modularized external-OEM-based theming system. You guys have been wonderful and although there have been many ups and downs, our team would like to thank each and every one of you!
Now come Android Oreo for Samsung users, we have to unfortunately state that we will no longer be supporting Nougat’s Sungstratum Addon as they are running on a completely different theming system. As we have BIG plans with Andromeda, we plan to keep it updated even when users upgrade to 9.0.
Instead of maintaining multiple complex projects just to end up abandoning support on an Oreo version of Sungstratum, would cause more code hiccups and potential bugs. So we decided that we would drop the price of Andromeda at a 50% discount for the next 4 days - STARTING ON FEBRUARY 15TH 00:00GMT, TO THE 19TH’s 23:59GMT!
Again, we know to those who are disappointed, we would definitely want to help but our redemption codes are limited to 500/quarter, which would be reserved for upcoming, more frequent giveaways! To our current dedicated substratum users on Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung, Essential, Honor and the like, with Oreo, we would like to thank all of you!
We understand many people would not be content about this, but also if we made amazing changes for andromeda and people from samsung gets the crappier end of the deal, it would be even worse. The idea of andromeda - comes from the idea that everyone is part of the same galaxy now, and it is universalized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xDark_ said:
Did you read what I wrote? Samsung changed how theming worked so much from Nougat to get in line with how every other OEM would implement overlays on Oreo. This meant Sungstratum was pretty much worthless and pretty much had to be completely rewritten. Not to mention, Andromeda isn't Samsung-specific. It works for most, if not all, devices on Oreo.
It would be more akin if the US government decided to put regulations on self-driving cars, saying they had to have certain software installed and third-party hardware checks before they could be used out on the road, around the same time the Tesla Model 4 was released. Unfortunately, Tesla's Model 3 and lower with autopilot don't meet these standards set by the US government and Tesla can't upgrade older vehicles to meet those standards (remember autopilot v2?) due to logistical and money reasons. This means that Tesla will have to disable autopilot on all 3's and lower - it can still drive normally, but just no autopilot.
This would make you angry, yes, but it's necessary. Tesla isn't going to give you a brand new Model 4 for free nor are they going to upgrade your existing car. But now that there are known regulations in place, future Tesla vehicles won't have this issue. But that means in the short term, Model 3 and lower users are screwed. And what's Tesla gonna do? Probably give you $5,000 off a new Model 4 or something, or they may do nothing at all.
It's a similar thing with Samsung. Google and OEMs have decided to finally implemented a standardized way to installing overlays on Oreo. However, the new implementation is incompatible with Sungstratum. And for the mean time, Sungstratum users are screwed. But now that OEMs have decided on a proper way of doing overlays, this means that Andromeda will work for the foreseeable future and not a hacked up solution like Sungstratum/Samsung's Nougat implementation.
Not to mention, this money helps fund Substratum development. Ya know, the base app that can theme apps? The one that's free? That isn't free to them - servers, developers, they all cost money. If Subs goes, theming goes.
But if you really do want to use Andromeda for free, just root your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

ITT: Not developers.
Let's compare this to Microsoft and their Office line of products. Let's say you bought Office 2010 back in 2011 and have used it for around a year or 2. Then, Office 2013 came out. Why was it okay for them to charge an upgrade fee/new license fee for that upgrade? Even then, however, 2010 still worked.
This is akin to Sungstratum still working on Nougat. Do you want the upgrade or do you want to stay on an old version?
Just buy the thing or don't theme...

chfreak said:
Well paying $1-3 isnt the problem the problem is that it isn't my headache that what the developers have to do. I paid for something and i need support for it you just can't abadon a project and leave all user fustrated cuz a team of devs wants to make money every 6 months of so. That ain't fare to the users and in google play terms. All devs are transfering keys and i don't see them crying
Solution to combat the issue
Make the app free for 24 hours
Make the previous a key for this app to work then only users that have bought the app can access the new app and you guys will still get new users
Ask for a donation rather than imposing one i will happily donate but if you devs plan to use cheap tricks to get a new app that ain't happening
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you read any of what I typed or...? Cuz I've addressed this argument twice now.

You guys have to realise that you bought an add-on, that in its description EXPLICITLY states that it allows the user of Substratum on Samsung Nougat (7.0/7.1.1). Nowhere did it say that it was guaranteed to support Oreo (8.0), or any future versions of Android.
The reason why Sungstratum can't be updated for Oreo support is because on Oreo, a different system of theming is used (OMS) than Nougat (RRO).
This isn't a question of personal greed, it's a question of system limitations. Heck, they are putting this add-on on sale to make it cheaper for not just migrating Sungstratum users, but anyone to hop onto the Andromeda train right now.
Now, some of you might ask, why can't they just update Sungstratum to clone Andromeda on Oreo? Well, this would create unnecessary work, and waste time for the Substratum developers by maintaining two branches of development for Andromeda and Sungstratum Oreo, instead of consolidating it into one project, and this also helps to reduce confusion, making sure which add-on you will need for Oreo.
So please, step back and have a think about why it has to be this way. Don't jump to conclusions.
Sent from my Samsung SM-G955F using XDA Labs

haloali said:
I expect the developers to let the users who already paid for it upgrade to the new version for free. It's what the customers are expecting. Anything else is retarded.
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You do realize how software development works right? When you buy software, the developers give you a list of features and guarantee that it will do those features. If it doesn't, they'll fix it. There is NO guarantee of getting new features or an upgrade with the package you purchased; they are free to do so at their discretion but they are not obligated to. We have never stated that Sungstratum will be supported on Oreo.
So please, stop using our software. You clearly don't care how much time and effort we put into developing and supporting it.
Sent from my Google Pixel 2 XL using XDA Labs

I'm not here to argue.... I don't want this thread to be clean... But point blank if purchase a key, the key should work forever.. I purchased so many software keys.. App keys.. Ranging from titanium backup to Microsoft words to adgaurd... I don't mind supporting a dev. But to tell me a key is no longer working ehh...

No one is taking anything away from anyone, Sungstratum will still work just fine on nougat. Andromeda is another app altogether and the devs have put in many many hours of work on it, so everyone would be able to theme Oreo. I can't believe people are crying so hard over a couple of dollars.

haloali said:
I dislike users like you with your mindset. <mod snip>. It does not matter how much it is. It could be $0.99 for all I care. I am NOT paying for another app when I already paid for the Samsung Substratum add-on. The developer could easily give those users a free promo code but they would rather have them pay for another app again so they could increase their revenue. That's not fair from the end user's point of view.
A Reddit user put it best: "Sorry, just buy our other app! And in 6 months we'll make a newer, better one! You also need to buy that one too."
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Andromeda was created with the unification of all OEMs in mind. Unlike Sungstratum, Andromeda is a utility app with a full suite of desktop apps made specifically for Oreo devices and above. Ever since the start, the Samsung addon explicitly stated that it would only support 7.0 and 7.1.1. Nowhere in the description has it ever said it would support Oreo because we can never ensure that it will be supported the same way with the hack we used. In Andromeda, we planned to stick with official Google documentation and access grants, with a plethora of new features coming down the line (was meant to be after we formally decided about the Samsung integration.)
As stated in the original post, there are only 500 codes per quarter. There are way more than 500 users on sungstratum.
We would like to clarify that the addon for Nougat support is NOT dead and the addon will keep working as long as you are running Android Nougat - as the addon advertised since day one in the description. We have not dropped support on Substratum side and the next build of subs will have a lot of build optimizations done specifically for Samsung Nougat.
Please keep in mind that we are working BEYOND the sandbox of a typical Play Store app or root app. We aren't SDMaid or Nova Launcher that will just work as long as you have root or simply, a way to install apps (third party launchers).
People said on Reddit that we could have just migrated people over to Oreo through a duplicate flavor in gradle. If they actually read the OP, it clearly stated that we would like to refrain from doing that as we are not only destroying the unified experience of Andromeda but also when we decide to give Andromeda many more features that were already in the works, Sungstratum users will DEMAND that they get the same treatment.
You're not buying "another Samsung addon" if you bought Andromeda. You can even hop on over to Huawei and rock your purchase there. You bought a Samsung addon for Nougat, you got the product that was advertised.

So in Sungstratum add-on description there is statement "An add-on to enable Samsung mode for Samsung devices (Nougat 7.0 - 7.1.1)" and in Andromeda description the statement is "An add-on to enable rootless mode for stock Android Oreo devices (8.0+)". What happen if Android 9.x release? There would be another add-on and so on and so forth every Android version