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Flashing custom ROMs and your warranty.

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Flashing custom ROMs & warranty
​
Some assumptions:​​1. Law in each country is different (mostly based on common law (US & UK) nad civil law (continental Europe), but "warranty" term means more or less the same everywhere. In simple words it's a legal contract that is very often a part of legal transactions. Purchase agreement is not a warranty contract itself. Warranty always must be stated on the separate document. If you were not given warranty document then most probably you were not given warranty at all. Very often different sellers are misunderstanding warranty with consumer law that gives some separate claims for consumers, but it does not gives warranty.
2. So if warranty is kind of legal contract, it is based on freedom of contract. It means that a party that is the guarantor can write any terms he wants as long as they are valid with imperative law (lex imperativus).
3. Keep in mind that the same company can have different warranty terms in different countries. So the fact that your friend in the U.S. got brand new device after 3 unsuccessful repairs doesn't mean it's valid for you, a customer leaving in f.g. France.
4. Everyone who wants to know their warranty terms should read their warranty. Don't relay on what you read on the internet or even in this thread. I don't know your warranty. That's why my post have just a general context.
Now the main part. I'll try to make it as clear as possible.​​1. Read your warranty. Do it like 3 or 4 times.
2. Is there directly written that flashing custom operating system voids your warranty? I'm quite sure it's not. Do you believe that installing Ubuntu over machine with Windows 7 sticker voids notebooks warranty as well?
3. My experience is based on reading my warranty terms. In every warranty I saw there was a term about installing any software that comes from 3rd party company. That means it doesn't refer only to custom ROMs. That refers to Angry Birds as well. And Facebook, and Twitter, and SuperUser, and Instagram etc.. So... another question: do you believe that installing Angry Birds voids your warranty?
Well... it might have.
4. The most important thing here is the cause and the effect relationship. That means that the guarantor can reject your claim to repair broken device only when the fault is a direct effect of installing software that comes from 3rd party company.
Example: you flashed custom ROM over your Android device. All went fine. Then you installed Angry Birds and one of the birds broke your screen. Guarantor can reject your claim to repair broken screen. But not because of custom ROM you flashed and you sent your device back to service with custom ROM on board. But because of Angry Birds (of course he needs to proof that the fault is a direct cause of one stoned Angry Bird).
Digression: yes, the side that is rejecting your warranty claims needs to proof their affirmations on why they rejected it.
In short words: if the fault is not a direct cause of installing any software that comes from 3rd party company then your warranty claims are valid. Of course we speak just about the situation that refers to installing software. Once you throw your device from the 10th floor it's obvious that you can't say: "There is no direct cause of installing any software that comes from 3rd party company and the fault so you need to repair my device."
5. Now another interesting part - rejecting some warranty claim doesn't mean that warranty is no longer valid at all. Again - it depends on your warranty statements, but based on mine it works like this: let's say I broke my internal speaker by flashing some sounds boosters. Let's even say that guarantor proofed it (which is not really possible that he even would try to waste his time). So I have no warranty now? More likely - I still have. But I have no legal claims about the speaker anymore. Now let's say that one week later my CPU burned out with no reason. There was surely no direct cause between CPU and 3rd party software because I don't installed any CPU controlling/overclocking apps. Based on warranty terms written in my warranty I still have valid warranty for that and guarantor needs to repair my CPU.
Disclaimer:
This text is just for education purpose. It's not a law itself so you can't base your claims versus some company on this. I may be wrong in many parts - feel free to PM me and I will make corrections. I don't know law in every country so there might be some differences.​​

Stickied for the time being

Brand new surface pro with blacklight bleeding

Hello.
It kills me to admit that my brand new $ 1200 surface pro has some light bleeding around the botton right and right areas of the screen.
Ive looked it up a but and it seems that this was an earlier issue so I actually didnt think there would be a chance I would end up facing this problem. I havent seen any complaints throughout may-june.
Here are 2 pics:
First one is with the place lit at the boot screen.
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Second one is with lights out, black image on full screen.
They are both with brightness at 100%, but it really doesnt make that much differene if it's set to 50%.
What do you guys think? I shouldnt be expecting those right? I know that people had much worse bleeds once, but that was before.
I also dont want to keep exchanging till I get a good one, that's too much of a hassle. So if you tell me that all of them are probably be the same I wont exchange.
It bugs me that such an expensive device would present this kind of irritating and ugly problem after 6 months in production.

Warranty claim. Your entitled so why not :/

The thing is im visiting canada right now, and thats where I bought it. The store is called future shop.
Im still within the 14 return/exchange period.
And now im seriously thinking whether I should return it for good, keep mine or get it replaced, hoping the new one would be free from defects.

Get it replaced under warranty. At FutureShop, ideally, but any Microsoft store should replace it no trouble. That's definitely a defect; the backlights shouldn't be *visible* in that way at all.

GoodDayToDie said:
Get it replaced under warranty. At FutureShop, ideally, but any Microsoft store should replace it no trouble. That's definitely a defect; the backlights shouldn't be *visible* in that way at all.
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Click to collapse
But what if the next one is the same or even worse? Isnt it likely that he whole batch sent to the sae store would have the same production issues?

Test it before you take it home, get a refund if they can't provide a non-defective model? Leaving aside the fact that it's highly unlikely that an entire production run has a visually obvious defect, this is Consumer Electronics 101. Hell, it's Being A Customer 101. If somebody sold you a defective toaster, you'd take it back under warranty. If somebody sold you a defective Ferrari, you'd take it back under warranty.

I agree. Keep asking for one till you get one that satisfies you. You paid for it, so you deserve to get a fully functional product.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

aooga said:
I agree. Keep asking for one till you get one that satisfies you. You paid for it, so you deserve to get a fully functional product.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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Thanks guys. You encouraged me. The thing is Im aware how most stores behave when such things happen. They will start to make things difficult, creating excuses and so on and on. I hate that.
Also, could you give me some ideas on how to test it for light bleeding in a bright lit store?

sneak3 said:
Thanks guys. You encouraged me. The thing is Im aware how most stores behave when such things happen. They will start to make things difficult, creating excuses and so on and on. I hate that.
Also, could you give me some ideas on how to test it for light bleeding in a bright lit store?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
request to take it to a storage cupboard?
Here in the UK if a shop starts being awkward normally just just whip your phone out, make it highly obvious that your searching for the trading standards number, perhaps going as far as almost pressing the dial button and then they'll usually give in but from what I hear the US equivalent of trading standards are useless so shops might ignore the same threat.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
request to take it to a storage cupboard?
Here in the UK if a shop starts being awkward normally just just whip your phone out, make it highly obvious that your searching for the trading standards number, perhaps going as far as almost pressing the dial button and then they'll usually give in but from what I hear the US equivalent of trading standards are useless so shops might ignore the same threat.
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Click to collapse
You're right. That's why I always buy from stores that have great customer service. Microsoft store and apple store at good examples. They just replace it till you're happy

I've had issues like this with my ipad back when I had it. Its not normal and you shouldnt have any trouble getting it replaced if you take it into the shop again. They should know about these things.

Note 3 Screen Delaminating

Well guys/gals my Note 3 screen has decided to delaminate itself 2 weeks after the warranty ended. It started out as a couple small lines and is gradually getting worse and worse adding new lines often.
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I'm only two weeks past my one year warranty period so I decided to email Samsung about it. I described the exact issue with a photo and sent it off last night. I got a reply back this morning, not even 12hrs later on a weekend with what was almost an automated response back. The person or robot on the other end didn't read or understand my issue and responded back with a typical copy and paste customer response. I provided the picture you see below and they replied...
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Care.
I see that there is a dot on the screen and you would like to fix the issue.
I am sorry to know about and I do understand your concern.
If you are using any screen protector, please remove it and check for the results.
In case if the issue persists, it need to be examined with the authorized service technician.
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Click to collapse
They then go on about if it's under warranty do this and if not do that when their form asks for a purchase date and they know if it's still warrantied. Is it so hard to actually get in touch with someone who cares more than simply creating another statistic.
I'm sad that my phone self destructed and I'm sad that Samsung customer service stinks.

Delaminate? Maybe I'm reading the photo wrong but it looks like some deep scratches to me.

No scratches, the digitizer is delaminating from the glass.

opensourcefan said:
No scratches, the digitizer is delaminating from the glass.
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Click to collapse
And what proves that?

It was shown to a Samsung service tech... same issue as this one - http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s3/help/problem-screen-t2231143 and it's almost that long now.
But hey, thanks for the moral support, it's been great defending my post. I'm already in the dumps so I thought posting here and making it worse would be a good idea.

Defensive much?

Pagnell said:
Defensive much?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's sad that you can't see why I am.

opensourcefan said:
It's sad that you can't see why I am.
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Click to collapse
Not really. It's not as if anyone suggested you were lying.
Anyway, I'm unsure where you got the idea that you're two weeks past your warranty period, Samsung phones come with a 24 month warranty, and as the Note 3 was only released 13 months ago, you're pretty much guaranteed to have this fixed by them if what you're suggesting is the fault is true. They can only do so much with a photo, you need to send the handset to them.

Pagnell said:
Not really. It's not as if anyone suggested you were lying.
Anyway, I'm unsure where you got the idea that you're two weeks past your warranty period, Samsung phones come with a 24 month warranty, and as the Note 3 was only released 13 months ago, you're pretty much guaranteed to have this fixed by them if what you're suggesting is the fault is true. They can only do so much with a photo, you need to send the handset to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just for us, because the EU enforces the 24 months warranty period to protect customers.
He's from Canada, and they only get 12 months.

Christ, that must be annoying.

Here's what it looks like today. Correct on only 12 months warranty but the service fella that I spoke with may help me out. Going to see him tomorrow, fingers crossed.

I can confirm this problem, cause a friend of me have the same problem on his Note 3.

Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Sorry couldnt resist..same thing happened to my s3 exactly 2 years after purchase, its like the gel filler underneath the glass starts to breakdown, then air gets in and the real problems begin. Quite scary really. You can replace the digitizer and glass but they are never the same again.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Free mobile app

Lol
It has been quite the interesting ordeal. I watched it go from a tiny thing to what you see in the last pic. Seems as though it changes every few hours or so.

Would screen protectors and the such help prevent bthis problem? Or is it something that is naturally bound to happen to the device?

Fideon said:
Would screen protectors and the such help prevent bthis problem? Or is it something that is naturally bound to happen to the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Negative, this is an internal issue and as such cannot be helped by exterior cosmetic protection. If this starts to happen you're pretty much fu*ked as far as saving or preventing it goes. Best thing to do is send it back to Samsung or if your warranty is up, repair it through 3rd party.

NocturnalDroid said:
Negative, this is an internal issue and as such cannot be helped by exterior cosmetic protection. If this starts to happen you're pretty much fu*ked as far as saving or preventing it goes. Best thing to do is send it back to Samsung or if your warranty is up, repair it through 3rd party.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well s**t. I know that this is an internal issue but do we know if there's anything that accelerates this process or that increases the chances of this happening? Better yet, do we know about ways to delay it better yet to prevent it? I want my phone to last somewhat longer than 2 years!

Fideon said:
Well s**t. I know that this is an internal issue but do we know if there's anything that accelerates this process or that increases the chances of this happening? Better yet, do we know about ways to delay it better yet to prevent it? I want my phone to last somewhat longer than 2 years!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing there aren't ways to prevent it directly, just looking after your phone properly, not dropping it, not leaving it in open arid environments (like around seawater for example). As far as I am aware this isn't a widely reported issue, and has never been isolated to just Samsung but seems Samsung has the most issues (though still quite rare). Maybe it is a manufacturing fault at some point with a minority of handsets.

NocturnalDroid said:
I'm guessing there aren't ways to prevent it directly, just looking after your phone properly, not dropping it, not leaving it in open arid environments (like around seawater for example). As far as I am aware this isn't a widely reported issue, and has never been isolated to just Samsung but seems Samsung has the most issues (though still quite rare). Maybe it is a manufacturing fault at some point with a minority of handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand. I always take good care of my phone, I'll keep an eye on the screen... Obviously. Anyways thanks a lot for the info NocturnalDroid!

Fideon said:
I understand. I always take good care of my phone, I'll keep an eye on the screen... Obviously. Anyways thanks a lot for the info NocturnalDroid!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you new to the Note 3? I have just sold my LG G3 to come to Note 3.

Small crack denied service on unrelated issue

I'm pretty disappointed. I was in Whistler about a month ago and using the phone around the pool. I didn't submerge it but it leaked and condensation got into the phone. Additionally, the phone has been exhibiting significantly poor speaker phone.
Subsequent to developing those issues, the phone got a very tiny crack in the corner from a drop. I sent the phone in for repair on the water issue and the speaker phone and the repair centre simply sent it back and denied servicing. Does anyone have any tips or ideas for getting servicing? I'm not looking to replace the display, simply the issues that are unrelated.
Thank you.

Can you take a picture of the small crack?

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As you can see the cracks are tiny. And while I'm sure they won't believe me they actually happened after.
Thanks.

Even small cracks can damage the phone, because it is not water proof anymore. And that could be the reason for your other display unrelated problems.
Take a look at the teardown:
https://de.ifixit.com/Teardown/Sony+Xperia+Z3+Teardown/30464
I'd have gone with this route:
Get the display replaced by a Sony service partner. Usually you get your warranty back after that.
Send your phone in for another repair, if those problems still exist.
But I guess it is too late now.
You can get your phone repaired, but you will have to pay for that.

They are re-assessing for me.
I don't believe the water went into the phone through the front panel. I saw this because those cracks didn't exist at the time (they will not believe me). But secondly, the phone tells me the flaps are open through the software even though they are closed.
If they still deny, I will invoke a mandatory arbitration (per their contract) and see if they'll replace my phone. I am a lawyer, so I have some legal prowess. Nothing really to lose and their cost to pay their lawyers to respond will greatly outweigh the cost of repair. I will swear, under oath, that the cracks were subsequent to the damage.

mfpreach said:
But secondly, the phone tells me the flaps are open through the software even though they are closed.
Nothing really to lose and their cost to pay their lawyers to respond will greatly outweigh the cost of repair. I will swear, under oath, that the cracks were subsequent to the damage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for the first part:
That's because your phone is not sealed anymore. Probably because of your cracks in the screen.
Look, you have a glue frame that seals your phone. If you have some cracks in the glass, the glue won't be able to seal your phone anymore and water can get inside of your phone now.
https://www.replacebase.co.uk/sony-...hesive-glue-frame-gasket-set-original-7477-p/
--> Phone damaged
Sony denies the repair because they believe that is what happened. And I don't think you can proof the opposite, so you might be in a bad position.
I'm no lawyer, but you decide how much of your time is worth it
I can understand your position mate, I just don't think that you have a good chance

Thanks for your response.
Litigation is about a cost/benefit analysis. I am banking on that if I seek arbitration (as per their contract), that they will determine that the cost of arbitration vastly outweighs the repair to my phone which will probably be to them very little and they will simply repair it in good faith to me. Maybe I am wrong but I will make them work for it too, I will seek disclosures and all kinds of things under their contractual rules to drive their litigation cost up. I think they are used to simply denying things and people living with it, I have no problem commencing action against them.
They need to provide me with more substantial evidence as to their reasons for denying, not simply sending it back with arrow tape on it. Also they need to justify the reasons for denying other issues such as a poor microphone; maybe its related to water, maybe not, but that hasn't been substantiated.

To update the situation Sony has agreed to replace the phone after I escalated to higher levels.
This is why I would be absolutely absurd to repair the phone and then send it in for replacement you must try at least to escalate the problem first
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just an update. I have received a replacement phone and everything is good now.
It took me a very long time to get the replacement because of problems with sony (different problem) but I did eventually get one.

Motorola RMA - Clarification on Warranty Status of Unlocked Bootloader

--

the unlocked bootloader was obviously directly responsible for the hardware issue. SMH
all of these moto cs horror stories..i hope i never have to deal with them.

Might want to take a look here. There are some sympathetic people in moto's forums that seem to be able to escalate these issues when the front line drones want to give you the run around.

You're probably right. However, I'm tired, busy, and I need my phone. I have lost all patience for Motorola CS. Although I might be able to escalate my case, I lack the effort needed to go through the process again, which would inevitably require me to jump through more hoops to cajole Motorola into enforcing its warranty. I found the part I needed (XT1575 Flex Cable Ribbon with Power & Volume Button ) and will just repair the phone myself. Although I appreciate the support of Motorola employees on that thread, the very existence of a thread dedicated to consumers trying unsuccessfully to return their phone don't give me much faith in the process. Thanks for the advice, anyways, though.

lomlomlom said:
You're probably right. However, I'm tired, busy, and I need my phone. I have lost all patience for Motorola CS. Although I might be able to escalate my case, I lack the effort needed to go through the process again, which would inevitably require me to jump through more hoops to cajole Motorola into enforcing its warranty. I found the part I needed (XT1575 Flex Cable Ribbon with Power & Volume Button ) and will just repair the phone myself. Although I appreciate the support of Motorola employees on that thread, the very existence of a thread dedicated to consumers trying unsuccessfully to return their phone don't give me much faith in the process. Thanks for the advice, anyways, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the cost and time involved in *intentionally* voiding your warranty by opening your phone, you could literally post a thread in their forum and I'm sure they'll get you sorted.

lomlomlom said:
You're probably right. However, I'm tired, busy, and I need my phone. I have lost all patience for Motorola CS. Although I might be able to escalate my case, I lack the effort needed to go through the process again, which would inevitably require me to jump through more hoops to cajole Motorola into enforcing its warranty. I found the part I needed (XT1575 Flex Cable Ribbon with Power & Volume Button ) and will just repair the phone myself. Although I appreciate the support of Motorola employees on that thread, the very existence of a thread dedicated to consumers trying unsuccessfully to return their phone don't give me much faith in the process. Thanks for the advice, anyways, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you open your Moto X you will need a new back cover too, because the way it is peeled of to get to the screws will damage it.
At the one side I think, if you want a open bootloader AND a no questions asked warrenty, you should buy a nexus or OnePlus. It's Motorolas right to do so.
But I don't understand why they handle this different in so much cases, one time its fine and there is an explaination that in the US non software related faults will be covered and the next time they refuse to repair a Volume Rocker even if you want to pay for it....

For the cost and time involved in *intentionally* voiding your warranty by opening your phone, you could literally post a thread in their forum and I'm sure they'll get you sorted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what I mean. I mean the time involved with sending the phone back to Motorola, where they can process it, would not be worth it. Here's an estimate based on my previous experience:
~3 days - Obtaining and shipping phone back to Motorola
~5 days - Motorola's processing time
~5 days - Evaluating and repairing device (assuming no other "problems" are encountered)
~3 days - Shipping back to me
That's over two weeks, as a bare minimum. As for voiding the warranty, by Motorola's standards, it's already voided. Even if my case is escalated in this case, if I ever have another problem, I will still run into the same problem with Motorola CS. If I never have another problem, the warranty doesn't matter, does it? The parts I need cost ~$30. I would rather pay $30 than wait at least two weeks in another attempt dealing with Motorola CS.

lomlomlom said:
My experience with Motorola RMA. Bought a Motorola X Pure (US) in early October, and rooted it soon after. Soon began to experience problems with volume rocker, so I RMA'd after about a week and a customer support call, my device was "received" (even though it had signed for a few days earlier). Four days after that, I received a second email containing a FedEx shipping number. Confused onto whether or not my device had been repaired, I used the support chat. The customer service rep told me that the phone will be sent back unrepaired, because the boot loader was unlocked. After asking whether or not it could be repaired off-warranty, the rep told me they would repair literally nothing (including crack screens, etc.) if bootloader is unlocked, even if customer is willing to pay for repair. Just though I'd share my experience. Don't bother with Motorola support if you've unlocked the bootloader. Although this isn't surprising, I'm quite dissapointed that Motorola will not repair completely unrelated hardware problems if the bootloader is unlocked, under any circumstances (and, even more importantly, this was not made clear until I had been without my phone for a week and a half). For me, this was enough to discourage future purchases of Motorola phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new (2015) Moto X Pure is not a developer edition, so unlocking the bootloader does void the warranty. Sorry about the lack of clarity on this. We've been using this answer but I was double-checking it before posting.
To sum up and clarify:
Unlocking the bootloader will show your warranty as void.
However, if an unrelated physical material failure should occur, such as a bad volume rocker or a failed speaker, it will be covered if the phone shows no signs of physical abuse. The key is that the problem can't be traced to software or abuse.
These same principles apply to MotoCare Insurance (extended warranty).
The above guidelines are applicable in the US only. Policies differ by region/country.
I'll talk to the marketing team about improving our communications about this aspect of our phones. But as a rule of thumb, if it doesn't say "Developer Edition" then unlocking the bootloader is not supported by warranty.
Updated 9/23/15
https://forums.motorola.com/posts/cda80927a1

Same here, had digitizer issues and Motorola RMA wanted to change the PCB first and then look into it further. With a heat gun and some 3M tape you'll be able to re-use your current back cover.

stg87 said:
The new (2015) Moto X Pure is not a developer edition, so unlocking the bootloader does void the warranty. Sorry about the lack of clarity on this. We've been using this answer but I was double-checking it before posting.
To sum up and clarify:
Unlocking the bootloader will show your warranty as void.
However, if an unrelated physical material failure should occur, such as a bad volume rocker or a failed speaker, it will be covered if the phone shows no signs of physical abuse. The key is that the problem can't be traced to software or abuse.
These same principles apply to MotoCare Insurance (extended warranty).
The above guidelines are applicable in the US only. Policies differ by region/country.
I'll talk to the marketing team about improving our communications about this aspect of our phones. But as a rule of thumb, if it doesn't say "Developer Edition" then unlocking the bootloader is not supported by warranty.
Updated 9/23/15
https://forums.motorola.com/posts/cda80927a1
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Click to collapse
But a lot of people were claiming that it was just the software warranty that got voided after unlocking the bootloader.

Probably best bet was to get tradesquare insurance coverage on it.

But a lot of people were claiming that it was just the software warranty that got voided after unlocking the bootloader.
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Click to collapse
The rep said to me that the warranty (I assume in its entirety) is voided. I asked for transcript to be emailed to me, as one was with my previous conversation, but I have received no transcript two days later. Very suspicious Motorola. Anyways, it really doesn't matter what Motorola's policy is, all that matters is how they enforce it. It seems now that they are not honoring any service for unlocked bootloader.

So I got the phone back today . . .
This is what was included in the box:
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This is my "Liquid-damaged" phone, which is clearly not liquid damaged:
(Sorry for low-res, its from my old phone).
So, seriously Motorola, WTF? It's marked that my warranty is NOT void, and blames the malfunction on Internal Liquid Abuse. This is absurd, and there's no way that anyone could blame the malfunction on liquid abuse. No where is it marked that it was not serviced due to bootloader. There's absolutely no way Motorola could have handled this worse.

Closed per OP request