Related
Undoubtedly this is the hottest topic on this forum (so it seems). Based on what I have seen, there has been no convincing proof on either way. The benchmarks score comparison are great, but my belief is it may not reflect day to day experience as most of time you never push the system to its max.
So my hypothesis is Transformer Infintiy's I/O issue related user experience can be fixed by software even if the underlying issue had been hardware related.
Since some people believes the opposite, and this is infinity forum. I wanted to make myself right for the sake of infinity owners. But given no previous good convincing test, I have decided to test one thing.
First video
This is one example video that Anandtech showed back in July that Infinity is indeed experiencing I/O issue. This video simply proved that while I/O is in use, the whole system slowed down. Based on the date of this post, which is 7/26/2012, I am assuming the firmware used was V9.4.5.22.
Second video
The credit of this video goes to BarryH. The reason why I included this is Galaxy note 10.1, which I owned for 3 weeks should be used as gold standard in this comparison as it is perhaps the only worth mentioning competition of TF700T and it is really great tablet of its own. You can clearly see that the downloading file in background really had no effect at all on the Galaxy Note 10.1.
Third video
The above is my very first Youtube video ever. But that's not a point. This is running stock ROM, rooted. No build prop tweaks. The only special thing I have installed here is Browser2Ram. So for this basically, I used AirDroid (WIFI file transfer application) and transferred 1G+ file over my network. While doing so, I basically opened browser, and went to the same site as Galaxy note 10.1 did in above. The little delay after opening browser is not hang in browser, but simply I forgot to set to landscape mode.
Conclusion: Based on these I believe I can conclude followings:
Compare first to third. Infinity had already significantly improved its I/O performance. How did it do? Clearly not by changing hardware, but rather software. So this proves my hypothesis of software can indeed fix I/O issue that user actually see.
*Please note that since I have browser2ram installed, this may be different for pure stock user experience. And Zeus users may even have better experience than me.
Special thanks goes to BarryH_GEG. Without him posting first two youtube clips I wouldn't have actually realized that Infinity's I/O issue had already been nearly completely fixed on my unit.
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For clarification, basically all I am doing here is that there is indeed a way that what we call IO issue that can be alleviated by software modification. So if anyone state its all hardware and can never be fixed/improved, that is incorrect statement. However, this does not prove stock Infinity in the future will receive such update. So you can have a hope, but hope has no guarantee.
Different people use device differently so I say try the device and update to the latest firmware and see if you still face the IO issue that is significant enough for you. I can say that it is definitely not as bad as first video show. Whether you can tolerate the IO lag or not is simply your personal preference. In the end, all devices have lag to certain degree when stressed. Even PS3, Xbox 360, or high end PC games gets frame drops when you stress them. The question is whether you care, and whether you push to the limit.
If I ever get chance, I will try to turn off Browser2Ram and try do the same test again and see what the true stock experience is, though I am certain it is not as bad as Anandtech video.
Update 9/24/2012
Since some people are pointing to the issue resolution is purely due to Browser2Ram, I did same test with this time while AirDroid transferring 1.1 GB file over the WIFI, I launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag even while launching. Everything is smooth. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, I did notice significantly longer time to load. So this is simply proving what I have said. We can fix issue to certain degree but whether the certain degree is enough for a specific user is really dependent. I am ok not being able to play Horn while I am transferring 1GB data, but some may not.
Of course Browser2RAM will help on this, you're caching to just RAM instead of the stupidly slow NAND memory Asus decided to put in their flagship device. Try the same "test" on complete stock and you'll see that it's a vastly different experience.
Zeus ROM works around the I/O issue by reducing or even eliminating SQLite fsyncs. Risky business for your data, good for performance. I like my data without corruption, so I'll pass, but others may not see it that way. They simply want the performance this tablet should have had in the first place.
Asus did reduce the overall sluggishness slightly with the .26 update that changed from NOOP scheduler to CFQ in the kernel, but the tablet still stutters. Browsing is far from smooth, even with alternative browsers like Dolphin HD. Performance is decent right after a reboot, but once memory fills up and Android starts its memory management and closing down processes (doing a lot of fsyncs in the process) it grinds to a halt. This wouldn't be a problem if flash I/O performance was higher.
The CM-based ROMs starting to pop up for the TF700 seems to help on the performance as well, and that's still with the 2.6.39.4-based kernel. CM's always been smoother than pretty much any stock device in my experience though, so no surprise there. They can never completely get rid of it though, since it's a hardware issue. Asus were stupid and chose cheap, slow NAND that gets totally crippled if you're doing random writes. There's no magic software to just fix it.
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
Einride said:
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
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Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
tf201 said:
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
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You can continue thinking that if it makes you feel better. I like and enjoy my Infinity but as a digital design engineer, to me this seems to clearly be a design issue @ the hardware level and will always limit the overall system to some degree. There are hard limits in any hardware software system. <Shrug>
My best advice to an end user is what I would give for any device issue: to decide whether it is a deal breaker for you *as it stands right now* and not sit around and wait for or bank on some kludgy cure that may be worse than the disease.
It's not too bad for me, I don't do tons of random I/O or web browsing. In fact, I'd say it would have taken me a long time to notice this on my own without the benchmarking and threads here... If it was unacceptable I would cut my losses and sell the tab and get a different device. Life is short, guys.
zenaxe said:
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
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Well, again (and I now added to opening post) my point is not denying IO hardware issue existence. I am just simply providing proof here that it can be improved by software (to certain degree). Whether it is to the extent of users complete satisfaction would be different issue. However, to be honest, if you see my video and it was original retail packaged Infinity fully on stock and from the day 1 performance, don't you think less people would raise a voice? It's because software workaround can change what you see as user, and that's all I am proving here. So yes. this should give a hope to someone who thought, it's hardware related so never can be fixed. However, this does not confirm or deny ASUS to take a step and fix this because I am sure it will take some effort on their part, which clearly they have not spent so far if this had been a problem existed since TF201.
To put into extreme, they can modify OS such that all front end basic programs such as stock browser, movie player or whatever to actually run on RAM if that is what makes the difference. But would they do it? Absolute not, because they won't spend money on such big project for device that had already sold well and gained essentially best Android tablet metacritic reviews (I did not take actual poll but just following Infinity news daily, it seems like pretty much most site gives the highest score for android tablet).
So yup. I don't disagree with you guys that IO issue there. But my point here was to help people clarify that there are indeed ways to make better by software. Whether happens or not is out of my control and would simply be guess for anyone.
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
HoushaSen said:
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
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No misleading here, don't worry
You are just describing software workarounds, though. None of which can permanently fix it entirely since it's a hardware limitation.
A proper "fix" would greatly increase I/O performance with no downsides. Browser2ram helps browsing, nothing else. Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
tf201 said:
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
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Click to collapse
I agree that they can probably make improvements with these kind of tweaks. The extent of the fix will always be limited by the low spec hardware in the end, though. So, I wouldn't encourage people to expect ginormous strides. For the most part, I expect more of the same with some evolutionary improvements but I doubt they will ever make a quantum leap. I would be angry if they made it worse but I'm an optimist at heart so I at least expect some slow improvement over time.
IMHO, as it stands it is usable and I'm hoping they can take it to "decent" (say the level pepole are seeing in Zeus). But to folks who are banging their heads against this constantly and unsatisfied as a result, I would still say there will be no true fix and you should bail on this device. It's a personal choice.
If you are willing to forgo your warrantly, I guess you could demo one of the custom ROMs. That probably shows you the extent of a software fix. But beware some of those fixes (cached writes) do put data integrity at risk. There is always a trade off.
Einride said:
Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
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If I understand the fsync thing correctly it can only cause issues if the device suddenly powers off, correct? While that may be a risk, it's a *very* small risk and well worth the performance improvement, in my opinion... I've used ROMs that disable fsync for quite some time and have never had a single issue...
I tend to go by real-world results instead of "theory"...
Same thing with "browser2ram" - it can only cause an issue if the device suddenly powers off and even then - so you lose some web cache data - so what?? Who cares if you lose your browser cache - it's just a browser cache!
Besides, if your device is powering off suddenly, you have much bigger problems than worrying about your cached web data!
I truly agree with the OP. People get so caught up on benchmarks and "what could happen" (even though in practice, it really doesn't)... Truth is, we all just want a better end-user experience - if they can "work around" hardware limitations via software then it makes sense to do that.
Obviously, the hardware isn't going to change, so complaining about that will never help whereas implementing software tweaks to work-around these hardware limitations *does* actually help...
Just my two cents!
By the way, I've been *very* happy with the performance of my TF700 since installing the Zeus ROM - another perfect of example of someone using software to get around the hardware limitations - and it works very well! Another example of "real world" results - that's all of the evidence that I need!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
d14b0ll0s said:
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
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While I agree that random reboots are not simply theory, what does that have to do with what we are talking about here?
However, since you brought it up, I've personally never had a single random reboot on my TF700, which may be yet another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM)... So that just goes further to illustrate my point. I'm assuming that you are not running Zeus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
jtrosky said:
another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM.
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This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
BarryH_GEG said:
To show you what Zeus' impact is, here's a comparison to a Note and TF300 on JB. Red is perecent slower than the Note, green faster. After tweaking SQLite, the remainder of the TF700's IO scores remain significantly below that of the Note (or SGS3 or One X) and some are worse than stock. If you use the TF300 on JB as a proxy for how the TF700 would perform after the update the column on the far right shows the difference between the two.
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Wait until you see Zeus on Jelly Been. It's going to be so smooth and snappy and you will never think about I/O issue again!!!!
BarryH_GEG said:
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
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No problem. In the end this is still gray zone that (at least in my opinion) nobody knows what the end result is, and I think you stated well. It's really depends on user experience.
For those missed my last couple line update on opening thread. I actually had 1.1GB file download going on my infinity, and launched FF3 game, which was a breeze. No lag. So IO issue had been fixed partly from original already (assuming IO was really poor from get go, but I cannot confirm this because I do not have original firmware, and did not play FF3 when I had one). But I definitely noticed significantly far less ANR, which was one major reason I originally returned my infinity and hesitant to come back from Galaxy Note 10.1. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, it takes forever and even got ANR, which I hadn't seen for a while on my Infinity. Whether this is related IO or memory cap of 1GB or some other internal limitation is unknown, but since all I had was AirDroid transferring file and Horn is only other thing running, I am assuming 1GB is sufficient; hence, most likely related to IO issue. But having said this, how many would really complain about this? Not sure. Because even on my PC (which is not that high end) but I can basically get same issue. If I encode video and try to run high graphic PC game, the machine stalls, and even gives freeze. Would everyone complain about this? Some would and say that's why you get better PC. The other accepts it is what is, and simply don't encode, and play high end game at same time.
I am pretty satisfied with Infinity as all the concern I had before coming back to Infinity from Note seemed to be solved (at least for me) and got back to Full HD screen; however, there are clearly still people out there concerned of IO performance thus the topic continues to arise. Once everyone gets satisfactory IO result, I believe we will see significantly less discussion about this (if ever happens).
The fact we know are:
1. IO hardware on Infinity is last generation and not as fast as main stream current generation expensive tablets.
2. Software can change what user see (whole point my this particular thread)
Fact nobody knows
1. Degree of how much software can change user experience. Whether enough to completely hide relatively poor performance of underlying IO hardware. Or opposite extreme is basically just soften up a little without true effect on most users.
2. Whether ASUS will even try fixing it.
Benchmark number is great to assess, but I really don't think that's what users are really interested unless someone who just want to say "hey my benchmark score is high!" If this is the case, nobody probably would ever get Apple because they are usually not after benchmark of individual component but rather they use decent hardware, minimize bottleneck by deciding all the hardware on their own, and write optimized OS. But individual pieces are not cutting edge for its price.
And in all honest, I am a bit lost at this point after writing this thread, what is it exactly that we are calling IO issue? Browser2Ram improved my browser speed but even Final Fantasy 3 runs fine from launch while I download a big file at its maximum speed. So I don't think it's browser2ram that did trick here, but rather ASUS already fixed IO issue for downloading file completely hogs the system. If the issue is slow stock browser, that may not be IO related. It may simply be ASUS did not optimize the stock browser. Maybe my system runs so well because I have turned all the bloatware off and many stock user aren't?
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Sent from my Rooted TF700T
i wish i saw this thread before i bought my Infinity + screen protector + case.
hope that JB will help with some of this, but i didn't realize it was just cheap-ass NAND.
ugh.
xPSYCHOTRONx said:
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
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http://mark-tech.blogspot.com/2012/06/browser2ram-fixes-transformer-prime.html
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
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Had very very few ANR's before JB..
Now they are nonexistent! Buttery smooth like Google promised! :good::good:
This seems to be more of an ICS problem. I have the TF300T, and when I upgraded to JB, a LOT of the unresponsiveness was taken care of. I am not saying that the TF300 performs just as well as the TF700, but JB makes a dramatical difference.
To be honest its pretty bad on my end. If i download a file (even at 250kb/sec) it gets so sluggy its not even usable. This is the only problem i have, too bad its a big one.
I do not use android devices to download torrents unless I have no intentions to use them soon. Apparently, it seems that Android does not handle large files nearly as well as PCs and Macs. I have an Of Evo, and the phone would not turn back on Irvine turn the screen off when I begin to download a torrent. I thought that this tablet would change the game completely, but it did not. Still a great device, but I am learning its limits slowly. (Don't be concerned., because it is not many. I just have an eye for some off these little things.)
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
to be honest, i was pretty pissed off at the ICS version of this tablet. there were heaps of glowing reviews out there, but the truth was here on XDA, only i found out too late. i was getting ANRs, had a white-screen freeze/reboot, the webbrowsing in Chrome and stock were BRUTAL. was even getting occasional stutters playing music from the microSD card. and come on, opening and closing the app drawer should not be occasion for lag! luckily, i avoided the build quality issues that some were having, but i really thought this tablet was not ready for primetime.
and then the JB update happened.
again, to be honest, i wasn't expecting much. but for me, it's been a revelation -- with JB, the TF700 is what it should have been to begin with. smmmoooooth. fast. responsive. no funny business.
hoping that future minor updates will only improve it.
If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.
zenaxe said:
If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.
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Yes, I see that, and I can certainly agree. As I continue to learn more about different devices, I slowly filter out that device is ideal for which task. Unfortunately, not enough people see things my way, and expect one device to work as good as any other device in their home...but it doesn't work that way.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
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Click to collapse
I/O itself is what is it. It is set by hardware, which benchmark shows. Infinity's IO is not as bad as some believe according to my research. Iconia A700, or other android tablet has similar scores on benchmark. So it is how current generation of Android tablet are generally designed. Some tablet though used better IO component such as Galaxy Note 10.1. But it does not have Full HD. When price of unit is similar, manufacture has to decide what to include and where to save.
As far as the user experience end, initially when I got TF700 the day of release in US. I had application not responding, almost complete froze while application is downloading from Playstore. These have changed (even before Jellybean).
1. ANR - Honestly, I rarely have this now. May be once or twice a week? But key here now is interrupt i.e. clicking home button will instantly interrupt and take me back to home screen. So no true freezing. I even got freeze application on iPad 2 or on Galaxy Note 10.1 at least once or twice a week. So in this regard, Infinity is now pretty much as good as it can get.
2. System Non-responsiveness while download - This had also been vastly improved. I did a little testing with internal network 1GB+ download in background, and launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag or delay. However, if I do the same with Horn it basically becomes non-playable. So depending on what you want to do, the issue may or may not be noticeable.
3. System lag while application install - This is still there. Though not to the point system complete froze, but stuttering and lag becomes noticeable. Though this is true even on my desktop sometimes, and I don't think iPad would even allow you to install application while you run other application. So I am ok.
So overall, I think what we attribute things to as IO issue is essentially resolved to the point it can be. If there is any option, Galaxy Note 10.1 may be only one it may perform better in this regard. So you have to list your priority as others say.
Yea just picked up a Note 10.1 and the performance is night and day versus the Prime that I had. It takes multi task to a whole new level and I mean really intense multi tasking such as downloading huge files and hardly a blip. Though the screen leaves something to be desired, its a good performance trade off.
I think i might have a possible reasons for the non-buttery smoothness some people have been experience with the tf700. Now most of the time i have my tab connected to the dock for typing in class, emails etc... but today i left my dock at home for the first time. Throughout the day i noticed that my tab was flying! Seriously the browser, going through the file manager, opening and closing apps. Nearly as fast as my GS3. I though asus might have sent an update or something without me knowing because this was a completely different tablet.
Once i got home i had to type up a report and needed the dock. I noticed that immediately after connecting it....the tab was not as fast. Now note that i have another sd card in the dock. What i began to notice was that once the the tab was connected, the combination of readying the the sd card in the dock for use combined with the change in the keyboard slowed down the responsiveness of the tablet immensely. Everything took an extra 1/2 millisecond. Now it wasn't "slow" but definitely "slower" than when it was not connect to the dock with the SD card.
So my questions to those that aren't as satisfied with the JB update:
1.Do you have a dock and is it always connected to the tab?
2.Do you have a micro or regular SD card within the dock?
3. Is the slowness/non-buttery smoothness you experience occur when you are connected to the dock with the above two criteria?
For those that are satisfied i want you to answer the same questions.
I honestly believe it is because of the dock/extra sd card configuration that some of us are experiencing the lag that we do. If my theory is correct, then hopefully asus can get this fixed with a software update.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T
an extra HALF MILLISECOND?!?! omg so slooooooowwww.
seriously though, maybe you mean an extra half second? i was using my tablet without the doc last night and i didn't think it was any faster. i'll do a little testing both ways and see if i notice any difference.
urrlyx said:
an extra HALF MILLISECOND?!?! omg so slooooooowwww.
seriously though, maybe you mean an extra half second? i was using my tablet without the doc last night and i didn't think it was any faster. i'll do a little testing both ways and see if i notice any difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha i was exaggerating. I just meant that its marginally slower than when dock. Yea do a test let us know if you too see a difference. Even if you dont consider it to be "slow" when docked, if it hangs slightly longer then when undocked, let us know. Also report if the SD card is inserted or not. Thanks!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T
My experience is It slows up abit at wake up then it goes back to normal after it reads both cards. Just gotta wait a bit. This is at balanced mode.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Sound theory IMO - I'm a squeaky wheel and I'm always using the dock - after reading this I'll avoid it for a few days and post results.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
amenic said:
Sound theory IMO - I'm a squeaky wheel and I'm always using the dock - after reading this I'll avoid it for a few days and post results.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome looking forward to your report along with everyone elses!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T
I had a play around, and I couldn't see a difference between docked or separated. Random question though...what background are you using? Do you store your background on the SD card in your dock?
I only ask because I was the same as you...disappointed in the performance after upgrading to JB. I am not sure if it is because of what I was expecting from my other devices (Nexus 7 and GN). Either way, it wasn't quite smooth enough.
It wasn't until I went hunting until I found my own answer...completely disabling my wallpaper. Just a standard static wallpaper...it wasn't a live wallpaper or anything. That is when my TF700T became as smooth as my other two devices. Love it now...but miss my wallpaper
I use Apex Launcher and disable it in there...any kind of wallpaper results in jitter at the home screen...and switching windows. Especially bringing up the notification menu. So I would ask you to check that one for me if you can...
As far as the other people in here...I am not sure that anyone else cares about the fluidity of the interface. My original thread didn't seem to get much attention...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=8821186
Let me know your results!
Same findings re. the wallpaper
Ive been using Asus Day scene live wallpaper and love it but changed to the stock asus static wallpaper and Nova is at least 2x faster
No Noticeable difference for me between using the Tab with or without the dock!
For what it's worth, my TF700 is almost always docked and this thing flies! I am using stock launcher with a static background. When I do un-dock it, I haven't noticed any performance difference. I am not using an SD card in the dock, if that means anything (but I do use a MicroSD card in the tablet itself).
I'm interested in seeing some more responses to this thread. Like I said, I have absolutely *zero* performance issues with Jelly Bean and with Browser2RAM (and the "Enable CPU Upload path" option enabled), the stock browser is insanely fast and an absolute joy to use.
I think it's also worth mentioning what launcher you use when responding - I've found that the stock launcher performs the best and is the most stable.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
I don't think its the dock. I think it's the touchpad. It's very unresponsive, particularly when scrolling and gives the impression that the tablet is sluggish.
Try this experiment - instead of using the touchpad, perform all your normal tasks by using the screen instead. After a few minutes you'll realize that its plenty fast. Or try using a good USB mouse. Scrolling in the web browser is effortless with a mouse but feels like your stuck in the mud with the touchpad.
I have a high end ASUS gaming laptop and I have the same problem - the touchpad is really really bad. This just seems to be another thing that ASUS can't quite seem to get right.
Tab2:
Pros:
Better Screen
Better Battery Life
Better Speakers
Better web performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_fePknM2U
TF300
Better general performance (in theory) (but reports of I/O lag)
Runs Tegra games
Better camera
Am I in the ball park here?
This tablet will be mostly used for web browsing, document editing/viewing and Youtube watching.
I'm not very interested in applying any Frankenstein solutions (ie: data2sd, browser2ram). In principle, for a fair comparison, a system should work well in stock minus the bloatware.
How do you feel about the I/O lag and performance in general?
Which one would you choose? Tab 2 or TF300?
i looked at both and chose the tf300
there's no slot for microsd card
and last the price
look at the tf700 (without dock to reduce price)
Tab 2 has microSD.
and they are the same price
Now that everyone is back from work, any ideas?
Not trying to start a flame war or anything.
A friend of mine owns a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 and I own the TF300 and from experience my TF300 runs circles around his tablet. The screen and speaker placement is better on the Galaxy tab ill give it that but the performance is lacking. It can get very choppy just flicking through home screens. After installing a custom rom on his tablet it did improve a bit but the TF300 was still the better performer.
Edit: For Web Browsing I use Boat Browser and it runs super smooth. you should test it out.
HorsexD said:
A friend of mine owns a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 and I own the TF300 and from experience my TF300 runs circles around his tablet. The screen and speaker placement is better on the Galaxy tab ill give it that but the performance is lacking. It can get very choppy just flicking through home screens. After installing a custom rom his tablet did improve a bit but the TF300 was still the better performer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is your web performance? I am very interested in that since it's the major use case.
is yours stock or custom rom with stuff like browser2ram?
klau1 said:
How is your web performance? I am very interested in that since it's the major use case.
is yours stock or custom rom with stuff like browser2ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is rooted but stock was still smoother then the Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 with a Custom Rom. To have a general comparison I would go to your local best buy and check out the display models. The choppiness of the Galaxy tab 2 can get annoying. Also I dont think browser2Ram works on Boat browser and it was still out performing the stock browser.
Tf300 is a better choice. The keyboard dock made the difference. I owned the tab before and return it to purchase the tf300.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
seeing as your asking this on a tf300 forum ,you would have had to of had a very bad time with the tf300 to say get anything else i had the tf101 before and before that the acer a500 and this just tops the lot , the tegra 3 chip and ddr3 help screen is a bit poor compared to others but its a tablet and i let screen clarity go for the cost otherwise i would of had the infinity tab but all it offered was not worth the extra :laugh:
IO lags in browser are very annoying. I have tried several browsers - Stock, Chrome, Dolphin with Jetpack, Firefox, Boat and ALL of them are lagging. I have compared browsing experience with iPad2 and IO lags are very evident. Apart from this TF300 is not so bad.
As a previous user of the TF101, I noticed the variability of device quality in both Hardware and Software performance.
What I'm hearing here is that everyone seems to agree I/O problems persist, but some are claiming better performance than others.
This is a similar story to the TF101. The one I got was perfect, even faster when compared to the Prime. All the while, others I know in person had to return theirs due to unacceptable performance.
At least with the TF101, I can verify that it's not just perception. My friends who had to return their TF101, personally found mine faster. In fact, it was because of mine that they bought theirs assuming all the units would perform identically.
My friend who bought his TF201, also bought it because of how impressive he found my TF101. But again, it was to his disappointment that his did not perform nearly as well.
Sounds like the same old story of Asus is replaying itself every product revision thanks to their poor QA.
I would rather get something I'm sure will perform satisfactorily over something that might be VERY fast, or VERY slow. (especially since it's from a store that charges 15% restocking fee on non-defective items, and they will argue "slow" is an opinion)
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
-angel* said:
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you use to improve browser performance?
For one I noticed there is: data2sd in untermensch's kernel.
klau1 said:
What do you use to improve browser performance?
For one I noticed there is: data2sd in untermensch's kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing more than unter's kernel and Chrome (is really fast for me )
-angel* said:
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the I/O issue fixed by a different ROM? If so, it means it's not a hardware issue and I can be hopeful for an official fix.
Also, do these custom ROMs significantly improve overall speed without the overclocking? I care deeply about the battery life!
Thanks!
Evan_ said:
Is the I/O issue fixed by a different ROM? If so, it means it's not a hardware issue and I can be hopeful for an official fix.
Also, do these custom ROMs significantly improve overall speed without the overclocking? I care deeply about the battery life!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my understanding, after reading many threads and discussions from the knowledgeable people here at xda and other forums, the custom ROMs provide a WORKAROUND not a FIX.
Basically, these units all have extremely slow internal Flash storage. So the solution (in custom ROMs) is to bypass the internal storage and put everything it can into the external SD. (Data2SD) Which basically makes the internal Flash useless.
Imagine buying a Laptop with a broken Harddrive so you are forced to use the CD-ROM drive instead.
Secondly, the custom ROMs loads the Internet Browser into the RAM (Browser2Ram), wasting a portion of the 1GB of RAM especially precious if you multitask.
This pretty much means you no longer have the flexibility of swapping out the SD Card whenever you want, since most programs will require it to run and have less free RAM for loading programs.
Of course to top it off, the price of admission is voiding the warranty since the bootloader must be unlocked before any custom ROMs can be loaded.
I was using Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 with 3g for over three months, now I have TF101G to be honest two of them. And both of transformers are much faster than SGT2. ASUS has a problem with SoD and RR ( no matter what soft or even kernel) , but I rather have reboot and 1 minute break once or twice a day than a so laggy system such as in SGT2. I don't know the problem of I/O in TF300 but I think that overall satisfaction would be still better on ASUS, now I'm thinking on TF300TG and I'm here because I want to be prepared for such problems. Are there any others problems with TF300TG I should knew?
Thanks
p3v4x
klau1 said:
From my understanding, after reading many threads and discussions from the knowledgeable people here at xda and other forums, the custom ROMs provide a WORKAROUND not a FIX.
Basically, these units all have extremely slow internal Flash storage. So the solution (in custom ROMs) is to bypass the internal storage and put everything it can into the external SD. (Data2SD) Which basically makes the internal Flash useless.
Imagine buying a Laptop with a broken Harddrive so you are forced to use the CD-ROM drive instead.
Secondly, the custom ROMs loads the Internet Browser into the RAM (Browser2Ram), wasting a portion of the 1GB of RAM especially precious if you multitask.
This pretty much means you no longer have the flexibility of swapping out the SD Card whenever you want, since most programs will require it to run and have less free RAM for loading programs.
Of course to top it off, the price of admission is voiding the warranty since the bootloader must be unlocked before any custom ROMs can be loaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really - on stock kernel I got ~1000 I/O in Quadrant, on untermensch based kernel (it is my own with some extras - will by posted when it will be ready) I got 7300 I/O without OC:fingers-crossed: without using data2sd.
I'd say that running a custom rom noticeably improves browser performance. I watched the video in the original post and did my own identical tests with my TF300t. Note that the video was posted in May, so there has been an OS update since then.
I loaded up both the stock browser and then Boat browser, and even used the same website (phonearena.com). My tablet didn't exhibit any of the choppyness shown in the video. Pinch zooming was smooth and fast, and never once skipped when zooming in and out. It basically looked just like the Galaxy Tab 2 in that video. loading on Boat browser was maybe a tad quicker, but zooming and scrolling was nearly the same.
My tf300 is unlocked, and I'm running cleanROM with a STOCK tf300 kernel in "balanced" mode.
I also have an ipad mini (which is basically ipad2 hardware), and did the same test on the same website just for kicks. Once the page completely loaded (and I think it took a bit longer than the asus tab), scrolling and zooming on the ipad mini is indeed crisper than the asus.
The screen movement/animations seem to follow your finger's position better than the android tabs I've used. I don't think it's actually smoother per se, but when you move your finger up and down quickly on android tabs, the animation is always a spit second behind where your finger is, even though it's smooth. On the ipad, the animation is noticeably closer to where your fingers are moving.
So, I've spent a couple of months with the ASUS TF700T and its keyboard dock. Time to rant about things I don't like.
1) Startup time. Cold boot takes more than a minute. This is truly sad when Windows 8 Ultrabooks and Macbooks boot in seconds. Slower processor based android phones also boot faster. Why ASUS? What are you doing in this minute?
2) Critical Bugs. By that I mean glitches that cause the tablet to hang, randomly reboot or randomly shutdown. It's not hot. It's not being used for hours. It just crashes the kernel. It should NOT do that ASUS. I don't need that. Crash the app if you have to, not the whole tablet! Similarly with hot-plugging the dock sometimes.
3) Non-critical Bugs. That refers to little things that don't really affect productivity with the tablet but are driving me (and many others) insane.
a) What is this graphics card driver / whatever else issue that causes the random black lines to flicker on the screen at random intervals? What are these lines? ASUS, you can definitely reproduce this. This is not found on any other android device that I own (Samsung and HTC phones and tablets mainly). I realise it may not be a big deal (stuff does not crash at least), but this is a £500 tablet. This should not be an issue. Really.
b) What is wrong with the keyboard driver? Why do I need an independent app (External Keyboard Helper) to enjoy my hardware keyboard dock that you charge £100? How can this guy make such a great app, with no issues with dead keys (you know what I mean - greek 'tonos' or accent), and you, ASUS, after breaking this functionality on Jelly Bean, can't find a fix? Buy his keyboard and bundle it with your tablets, that's my answer. Give up on this ridiculous "ASUS Keyboard". It's a joke needing a separate keyboard for every language, particularly one that does not work properly. Use Google's standard. Use Hacker's Keyboard from the market (free!). Use Swype. Whatever.
4) Missing features. You give us a tablet with a hardware keyboard having a USB slot. What do people use USB for? No, it's not to plug in a keyboard. It's probably not to plug in a mouse either. External storage maybe, but less so in this cloud-ridden world where everything is on Dropbox.
Charging their phones is what they will use it for. Their iPhones, Androids and whatever. Why can't we do that with the tablet screen off ASUS? Is Apple smarter and they can code the Macbook Air circuitry better? Is this not something people want? I may not need 18h of tablet time - just a charge for my phone. Why should I need to keep the tablet on for that?
5) A 3G / 4G / whatever model, priced competitively. I know I can tether. I'd like to save myself the trouble, and my phone's battery since it is so damn difficult to charge with the built in dock anyway. It's not that hard, it will let carriers offer your tablet as a bundle, it will make you money. The iPad does it, Samsung does it. The only tablets that don't do it are Amazon's - and there are 3G Kindles out there.
5 things. Can you fix them?
Note that stuff like "my generation 1 iPad browses and reads email faster" and "X phone / tablet costing half as much is on 4.2.2 already" and "why should I need to void my warranty to install custom ROMs" are left out here. I don't particularly care about these.
I think the TF700T is an amazing feat of engineering. An incredible, sharp screen, a great form factor, a good looking set with the dock keyboard. But I'm sorry, I'm a guy who regularly forks out £600 on tablets or gadgets and my next tablet will be an iPad or a Samsung or a Kindle. It's just not worth it. I have no patience anymore, because I know that I can get my work done more efficiently with a 3rd party external keyboard and any other tablet. Heck, I can even get a phone, a keyboard and a HDMI screen for the money, and even run Ubuntu more stably.
PS: I am posting this on every android forum I know, just in case find a solution for some of these problems...
This has to be the worst post i have ever seen on the tf700 thread...
ronniereiff said:
This has to be the worst post i have ever seen on the tf700 thread...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I did however respond to it when posted in Transformer Forums but this person never replied to anything that people have commented on it.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.3
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
giatros said:
So, I've spent a couple of months with the ASUS TF700T and its keyboard dock. Time to rant about things I don't like.
1) Startup time. Cold boot takes more than a minute. This is truly sad when Windows 8 Ultrabooks and Macbooks boot in seconds. Slower processor based android phones also boot faster. Why ASUS? What are you doing in this minute?
2) Critical Bugs. By that I mean glitches that cause the tablet to hang, randomly reboot or randomly shutdown. It's not hot. It's not being used for hours. It just crashes the kernel. It should NOT do that ASUS. I don't need that. Crash the app if you have to, not the whole tablet! Similarly with hot-plugging the dock sometimes.
3) Non-critical Bugs. That refers to little things that don't really affect productivity with the tablet but are driving me (and many others) insane.
a) What is this graphics card driver / whatever else issue that causes the random black lines to flicker on the screen at random intervals? What are these lines? ASUS, you can definitely reproduce this. This is not found on any other android device that I own (Samsung and HTC phones and tablets mainly). I realise it may not be a big deal (stuff does not crash at least), but this is a £500 tablet. This should not be an issue. Really.
b) What is wrong with the keyboard driver? Why do I need an independent app (External Keyboard Helper) to enjoy my hardware keyboard dock that you charge £100? How can this guy make such a great app, with no issues with dead keys (you know what I mean - greek 'tonos' or accent), and you, ASUS, after breaking this functionality on Jelly Bean, can't find a fix? Buy his keyboard and bundle it with your tablets, that's my answer. Give up on this ridiculous "ASUS Keyboard". It's a joke needing a separate keyboard for every language, particularly one that does not work properly. Use Google's standard. Use Hacker's Keyboard from the market (free!). Use Swype. Whatever.
4) Missing features. You give us a tablet with a hardware keyboard having a USB slot. What do people use USB for? No, it's not to plug in a keyboard. It's probably not to plug in a mouse either. External storage maybe, but less so in this cloud-ridden world where everything is on Dropbox.
Charging their phones is what they will use it for. Their iPhones, Androids and whatever. Why can't we do that with the tablet screen off ASUS? Is Apple smarter and they can code the Macbook Air circuitry better? Is this not something people want? I may not need 18h of tablet time - just a charge for my phone. Why should I need to keep the tablet on for that?
5) A 3G / 4G / whatever model, priced competitively. I know I can tether. I'd like to save myself the trouble, and my phone's battery since it is so damn difficult to charge with the built in dock anyway. It's not that hard, it will let carriers offer your tablet as a bundle, it will make you money. The iPad does it, Samsung does it. The only tablets that don't do it are Amazon's - and there are 3G Kindles out there.
5 things. Can you fix them?
Note that stuff like "my generation 1 iPad browses and reads email faster" and "X phone / tablet costing half as much is on 4.2.2 already" and "why should I need to void my warranty to install custom ROMs" are left out here. I don't particularly care about these.
I think the TF700T is an amazing feat of engineering. An incredible, sharp screen, a great form factor, a good looking set with the dock keyboard. But I'm sorry, I'm a guy who regularly forks out £600 on tablets or gadgets and my next tablet will be an iPad or a Samsung or a Kindle. It's just not worth it. I have no patience anymore, because I know that I can get my work done more efficiently with a 3rd party external keyboard and any other tablet. Heck, I can even get a phone, a keyboard and a HDMI screen for the money, and even run Ubuntu more stably.
PS: I am posting this on every android forum I know, just in case find a solution for some of these problems...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1)startup time : i never shutdown my tab unless thete is no battery so i use the startup very few times and my lifespan is long enough (around 80 years) to wait for 1mn for a non-critical device to start
2)critical bugs : i don't have any. My tab nearly never crash (4 times since august). Maybe you have a broken tab (use your warranty to change it) or maybe you installed bad-quality applications and apply some customization and parameters not very clever...
3)non-critical bugs : i have some but they don't drive me insane and most of them are app related, not from the tab or asus. And anyway remember that nothing perfect exists and you also are doing mistakes in your own job...
4)missing features : you complain that there is a usb port ? It's one of the best reason to buy that tab ! You say the cloub is here but people don't alluse the cloud and on it the capacity is small (few Gb while my external disk has 1 Tb). And you can't put your photo to the cloud without a computer like that tab to connect your camera and extract your photos.
5)3G/4G : a 3G model exist TF700TG. 4G does not exist but it's normal as 4G was not ready when that tab was designed and put to stores. And at that time, there was NO tab with 4G (even the ipad, the 4G version arrived few months later)
PS : You post on every forum ? I call that spam and i know that will not answer to most of all the answers you will get in all these forums. Question : why don't you post that to world-wide newspapers, maybe the UN could decide of resolution against asus to ask them to meet your expectations ?
Please buy an ipad or whatever you prefer and don't bother us anymore with your poor man complains.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
Wait did he just criticse the tablet for having a USB port. I use the USB for external storage...
Thanks for all your comments, some have been helpful.
I realise that I wasn't very clear on what I said about the USB port. I really like it. I think it should be there. I have adapters for my Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 and my Galaxy Note, (MHL) which I mainly use to connect USB keyboards or thumb drives, or SD readers.
The rant is that there is no constant power to the USB. When the tablet screen locks, USB loses power: thus you can't charge a phone for 10 minutes in your backpack when walking. This is possible with a MacBook Air (that I end up carrying around for this purpose).
Startup time is important, at least to me. It is a major selling point for Mac OS X and Windows 8. People don't want to wait when their gadgets load, that's what I think. Computers do have sleep mode as well (and sadly, they wake up faster from sleep than the Transformer!!!).
I have an iPad as well, generation 1, jailbroken, loaded with 64GB of stuff. The OS must have crashed once or twice in years. Heck, I've even managed to crash a Kindle 3 once in 3 years. I can live with that. But the TF crashes at least once a week. I believe that not that many people experience this issue, so I will RMA mine and hope for the best.
I was not aware there is a 3G version. I have not seen it on sale anywhere. After a lot of googling I realised it's the TF700KL (and it's 4G LTE, which is nice).
Thanks again and sorry if this did not apply to you.
What are you doing to crash it. Even on stock 4.2 I dont remember it crashing?
giatros said:
The rant is that there is no constant power to the USB. When the tablet screen locks, USB loses power: thus you can't charge a phone for 10 minutes in your backpack when walking. This is possible with a MacBook Air (that I end up carrying around for this purpose).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are carrying around a MacBook Air only to charge your phone?
giatros said:
Startup time is important, at least to me. It is a major selling point for Mac OS X and Windows 8. People don't want to wait when their gadgets load, that's what I think. Computers do have sleep mode as well (and sadly, they wake up faster from sleep than the Transformer!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only time when startup time is important for me is after it crashed again. Otherwise I leave the tablet in standby mode, and it wakes up in a second whenever I need it.
I agree that all these issues exist and are annoying more or less, but you won't ever find a perfect device - all have their quirks. For me, the only real defect from your 5 points is that it really crashes from time to time.
_that said:
You are carrying around a MacBook Air only to charge your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does work
Standalone batteries are less efficient (plus I forget to charge them)
I have found myself carrying an iPad to tether everything else to sometimes...
_that said:
The only time when startup time is important for me is after it crashed again. Otherwise I leave the tablet in standby mode, and it wakes up in a second whenever I need it.
I agree that all these issues exist and are annoying more or less, but you won't ever find a perfect device - all have their quirks. For me, the only real defect from your 5 points is that it really crashes from time to time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, crashing is the worst. Writing something and losing it is not nice. Even if it's just a paragraph, it's a waste of time.
I have hopes for a perfect device! One that does what I need and is stable enough. I-devices work, most android phones work, Macs work, PCs work, kindles work - why should this be different?
giatros said:
It does work
Standalone batteries are less efficient (plus I forget to charge them)
I have found myself carrying an iPad to tether everything else to sometimes...
Yes, crashing is the worst. Writing something and losing it is not nice. Even if it's just a paragraph, it's a waste of time.
I have hopes for a perfect device! One that does what I need and is stable enough. I-devices work, most android phones work, Macs work, PCs work, kindles work - why should this be different?
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My tablet only crashes when trying to download torrents. If I dont attempt to download torrents, then I dont have any crashes. Though the beta version of CROMIX I had a game crash once but that is expected on beta and hasnt crashed since.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.3
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
My tab has crashed a very few times and each time it was while playing a game that was heavely using the GPU/CPU. Maybe your tab has a hardware defect but before sending it back with rma, try a factory reset wich will put back your tab to original configuration (it means you loose your data if you don't save them elsewhere).
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
A factory reset is good, but it can ALSO be a system file corrupted, in which I suggest you factory reset, reflash 4.2.1, then another factory reset.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.3
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
While I do not agree with the OP totally but at least for some parts.
What I don't understand is that people keep defending ASUS as if they are not to blame.
Replies like "This is the worst post ever" I assume you are talking about your own post there.
The black lines are a complete no go for me, if you can't make a HD screen to work put in a low resolution screen, I would have skipped it and maybe be even happy with another tablet. Credits for apple's ipad for that, it is possible guys.
The keyboards menu button is only when your in an app, why is that? Why not in a launcher, where you use menu the most?
And then all these benchmarks, twice as fast as a htc one x, give me a break. My one x really blows away my TF700, it's about performance during the day, not just some numbers.
Installing a rom takes 3 times as long as on my one x...
Maybe it is because most asus fan people have an older smartphone with lower specs but owning a one x does not make things better for the infinity. ;0
The reason for me to keep it is because I bought it in NY for $600 that's about 430 euro incl. keyboard.
If I would have bought it here in Holland it would have been 600+ euro and I wouldn't accept this product as it is.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
J_Dutch said:
While I do not agree with the OP totally but at least for some parts.
What I don't understand is that people keep defending ASUS as if they are not to blame.
Replies like "This is the worst post ever" I assume you are talking about your own post there.
The black lines are a complete no go for me, if you can't make a HD screen to work put in a low resolution screen, I would have skipped it and maybe be even happy with another tablet. Credits for apple's ipad for that, it is possible guys.
The keyboards menu button is only when your in an app, why is that? Why not in a launcher, where you use menu the most?
And then all these benchmarks, twice as fast as a htc one x, give me a break. My one x really blows away my TF700, it's about performance during the day, not just some numbers.
Installing a rom takes 3 times as long as on my one x...
Maybe it is because most asus fan people have an older smartphone with lower specs but owning a one x does not make things better for the infinity. ;0
The reason for me to keep it is because I bought it in NY for $600 that's about 430 euro incl. keyboard.
If I would have bought it here in Holland it would have been 600+ euro and I wouldn't accept this product as it is.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
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The TF700 out of the box is junk which is indeed only my personal preference. Many people have the stock device and are very happy with it. I also suggest people who compare a tablet with a keyboard to another, then type papers of a phone or a regular tablet without a keyboard and see how long it takes you. It is indeed ASUS fault for their bloated ROM, but if you use CromiX or Cyanogen Mod, It will blow any stock device out of the water. The black lines are no big deal, and dont occur when watching movies. I only see that when using Tapatalk or browsing, and it is rare. If you want a device out of the box go for a different device. The TF700 has gotten better with 4.2.1 as it fixed a lot typing application lag and such, but still dont compare to a un-bloated and tweaked ROM.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.3
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
Tylorw1 said:
The TF700 out of the box is junk which is indeed only my personal preference. Many people have the stock device and are very happy with it. I also suggest people who compare a tablet with a keyboard to another, then type papers of a phone or a regular tablet without a keyboard and see how long it takes you. It is indeed ASUS fault for their bloated ROM, but if you use CromiX or Cyanogen Mod, It will blow any stock device out of the water. The black lines are no big deal, and dont occur when watching movies. I only see that when using Tapatalk or browsing, and it is rare. If you want a device out of the box go for a different device. The TF700 has gotten better with 4.2.1 as it fixed a lot typing application lag and such, but still dont compare to a un-bloated and tweaked ROM.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.3
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
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You are right about that, I have tweaked my One X. But on stock sense it's not far behind the tweaked Infinity.
And let's not forget the One X is even more expensive for me, so you get a lot of hardware for the money(at least what I paid for it)
The concept is brilliant, it's more that I'm slightly dissapointed cause if performance was wat is expected this device would have been the best ever, and I'm sure it could have been if asus at least would have done better I/O performance. But then again, will there ever be a perfect device?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
The thing is, I don't think the speed should be an issue. I don't play that many games (certainly not power-hungry ones), I don't download torrents on the TF700T.
I have been flashing custom ROMs on devices since my HTC Prophet - and custom ROMs are usually less stable than the factory ROM (they are faster and with more eye-candy). Why this is not the case here I don't know.
I like the tablet to read papers and books (mainly PDF, some ePub), this is why I wanted the high resolution screen.
Screen tearing when reading is distracting and very disappointing.
I try to write papers on the TF700T. I write some forum posts. But the problems there are
1) Can't use a reference manager - there is no cite as you write, or at least I haven't found one
2) Random crashing or flushing the app from memory causes loss of data
3) When I want to write in Greek, I HAVE to use a non-ASUS keyboard app as the ASUS keyboard does not let you put accents in since 4.2.1
The touchscreen is great for reading stuff, underlining etc. But this tablet is problematic; may be just my device (I hope). It certainly feels like a beta product.
I wanted to reinstall the OS as well, however ASUS seems to have pulled the 10.6.1.14.4 from their download site (I get file not found for http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/EeePAD/TF700T/TF700T_WW_epaduser_V1061144UpdateLauncher.zip )
I just wanted to say this:
There is a very noticeable issue with the Tegra 3's 4+1 processor setup that some things (recovery for example) do not handle too well and end up using that power saver core as the main core. For example, in TWRP, on my Droid RAZR the little slider to confirm something is very liquid, as is the loading bar's animation, but on the TF700T, it lags immensely.
That is the one issue I have with it. As far as Quadrant scores or benchmarks, mine have been all over the place even on CM10.1. It doesn't matter that on CROMI it can get a 10,000 if you can't switch between two apps in less than 10 seconds.
Sent from my Transformer Infinity