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Can I/O issue be fixed by Software? Evidence based.

Undoubtedly this is the hottest topic on this forum (so it seems). Based on what I have seen, there has been no convincing proof on either way. The benchmarks score comparison are great, but my belief is it may not reflect day to day experience as most of time you never push the system to its max.
So my hypothesis is Transformer Infintiy's I/O issue related user experience can be fixed by software even if the underlying issue had been hardware related.
Since some people believes the opposite, and this is infinity forum. I wanted to make myself right for the sake of infinity owners. But given no previous good convincing test, I have decided to test one thing.
First video
This is one example video that Anandtech showed back in July that Infinity is indeed experiencing I/O issue. This video simply proved that while I/O is in use, the whole system slowed down. Based on the date of this post, which is 7/26/2012, I am assuming the firmware used was V9.4.5.22.
Second video
The credit of this video goes to BarryH. The reason why I included this is Galaxy note 10.1, which I owned for 3 weeks should be used as gold standard in this comparison as it is perhaps the only worth mentioning competition of TF700T and it is really great tablet of its own. You can clearly see that the downloading file in background really had no effect at all on the Galaxy Note 10.1.
Third video
The above is my very first Youtube video ever. But that's not a point. This is running stock ROM, rooted. No build prop tweaks. The only special thing I have installed here is Browser2Ram. So for this basically, I used AirDroid (WIFI file transfer application) and transferred 1G+ file over my network. While doing so, I basically opened browser, and went to the same site as Galaxy note 10.1 did in above. The little delay after opening browser is not hang in browser, but simply I forgot to set to landscape mode.
Conclusion: Based on these I believe I can conclude followings:
Compare first to third. Infinity had already significantly improved its I/O performance. How did it do? Clearly not by changing hardware, but rather software. So this proves my hypothesis of software can indeed fix I/O issue that user actually see.
*Please note that since I have browser2ram installed, this may be different for pure stock user experience. And Zeus users may even have better experience than me.
Special thanks goes to BarryH_GEG. Without him posting first two youtube clips I wouldn't have actually realized that Infinity's I/O issue had already been nearly completely fixed on my unit.
.
For clarification, basically all I am doing here is that there is indeed a way that what we call IO issue that can be alleviated by software modification. So if anyone state its all hardware and can never be fixed/improved, that is incorrect statement. However, this does not prove stock Infinity in the future will receive such update. So you can have a hope, but hope has no guarantee.
Different people use device differently so I say try the device and update to the latest firmware and see if you still face the IO issue that is significant enough for you. I can say that it is definitely not as bad as first video show. Whether you can tolerate the IO lag or not is simply your personal preference. In the end, all devices have lag to certain degree when stressed. Even PS3, Xbox 360, or high end PC games gets frame drops when you stress them. The question is whether you care, and whether you push to the limit.
If I ever get chance, I will try to turn off Browser2Ram and try do the same test again and see what the true stock experience is, though I am certain it is not as bad as Anandtech video.
Update 9/24/2012
Since some people are pointing to the issue resolution is purely due to Browser2Ram, I did same test with this time while AirDroid transferring 1.1 GB file over the WIFI, I launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag even while launching. Everything is smooth. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, I did notice significantly longer time to load. So this is simply proving what I have said. We can fix issue to certain degree but whether the certain degree is enough for a specific user is really dependent. I am ok not being able to play Horn while I am transferring 1GB data, but some may not.

Of course Browser2RAM will help on this, you're caching to just RAM instead of the stupidly slow NAND memory Asus decided to put in their flagship device. Try the same "test" on complete stock and you'll see that it's a vastly different experience.
Zeus ROM works around the I/O issue by reducing or even eliminating SQLite fsyncs. Risky business for your data, good for performance. I like my data without corruption, so I'll pass, but others may not see it that way. They simply want the performance this tablet should have had in the first place.
Asus did reduce the overall sluggishness slightly with the .26 update that changed from NOOP scheduler to CFQ in the kernel, but the tablet still stutters. Browsing is far from smooth, even with alternative browsers like Dolphin HD. Performance is decent right after a reboot, but once memory fills up and Android starts its memory management and closing down processes (doing a lot of fsyncs in the process) it grinds to a halt. This wouldn't be a problem if flash I/O performance was higher.
The CM-based ROMs starting to pop up for the TF700 seems to help on the performance as well, and that's still with the 2.6.39.4-based kernel. CM's always been smoother than pretty much any stock device in my experience though, so no surprise there. They can never completely get rid of it though, since it's a hardware issue. Asus were stupid and chose cheap, slow NAND that gets totally crippled if you're doing random writes. There's no magic software to just fix it.
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.

Einride said:
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
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Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..

Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.

I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"

tf201 said:
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
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You can continue thinking that if it makes you feel better. I like and enjoy my Infinity but as a digital design engineer, to me this seems to clearly be a design issue @ the hardware level and will always limit the overall system to some degree. There are hard limits in any hardware software system. <Shrug>
My best advice to an end user is what I would give for any device issue: to decide whether it is a deal breaker for you *as it stands right now* and not sit around and wait for or bank on some kludgy cure that may be worse than the disease.
It's not too bad for me, I don't do tons of random I/O or web browsing. In fact, I'd say it would have taken me a long time to notice this on my own without the benchmarking and threads here... If it was unacceptable I would cut my losses and sell the tab and get a different device. Life is short, guys.

zenaxe said:
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
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Well, again (and I now added to opening post) my point is not denying IO hardware issue existence. I am just simply providing proof here that it can be improved by software (to certain degree). Whether it is to the extent of users complete satisfaction would be different issue. However, to be honest, if you see my video and it was original retail packaged Infinity fully on stock and from the day 1 performance, don't you think less people would raise a voice? It's because software workaround can change what you see as user, and that's all I am proving here. So yes. this should give a hope to someone who thought, it's hardware related so never can be fixed. However, this does not confirm or deny ASUS to take a step and fix this because I am sure it will take some effort on their part, which clearly they have not spent so far if this had been a problem existed since TF201.
To put into extreme, they can modify OS such that all front end basic programs such as stock browser, movie player or whatever to actually run on RAM if that is what makes the difference. But would they do it? Absolute not, because they won't spend money on such big project for device that had already sold well and gained essentially best Android tablet metacritic reviews (I did not take actual poll but just following Infinity news daily, it seems like pretty much most site gives the highest score for android tablet).
So yup. I don't disagree with you guys that IO issue there. But my point here was to help people clarify that there are indeed ways to make better by software. Whether happens or not is out of my control and would simply be guess for anyone.

I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.

HoushaSen said:
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
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No misleading here, don't worry
You are just describing software workarounds, though. None of which can permanently fix it entirely since it's a hardware limitation.
A proper "fix" would greatly increase I/O performance with no downsides. Browser2ram helps browsing, nothing else. Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

tf201 said:
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
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Click to collapse
I agree that they can probably make improvements with these kind of tweaks. The extent of the fix will always be limited by the low spec hardware in the end, though. So, I wouldn't encourage people to expect ginormous strides. For the most part, I expect more of the same with some evolutionary improvements but I doubt they will ever make a quantum leap. I would be angry if they made it worse but I'm an optimist at heart so I at least expect some slow improvement over time.
IMHO, as it stands it is usable and I'm hoping they can take it to "decent" (say the level pepole are seeing in Zeus). But to folks who are banging their heads against this constantly and unsatisfied as a result, I would still say there will be no true fix and you should bail on this device. It's a personal choice.
If you are willing to forgo your warrantly, I guess you could demo one of the custom ROMs. That probably shows you the extent of a software fix. But beware some of those fixes (cached writes) do put data integrity at risk. There is always a trade off.

Einride said:
Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
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If I understand the fsync thing correctly it can only cause issues if the device suddenly powers off, correct? While that may be a risk, it's a *very* small risk and well worth the performance improvement, in my opinion... I've used ROMs that disable fsync for quite some time and have never had a single issue...
I tend to go by real-world results instead of "theory"...
Same thing with "browser2ram" - it can only cause an issue if the device suddenly powers off and even then - so you lose some web cache data - so what?? Who cares if you lose your browser cache - it's just a browser cache!
Besides, if your device is powering off suddenly, you have much bigger problems than worrying about your cached web data!
I truly agree with the OP. People get so caught up on benchmarks and "what could happen" (even though in practice, it really doesn't)... Truth is, we all just want a better end-user experience - if they can "work around" hardware limitations via software then it makes sense to do that.
Obviously, the hardware isn't going to change, so complaining about that will never help whereas implementing software tweaks to work-around these hardware limitations *does* actually help...
Just my two cents!
By the way, I've been *very* happy with the performance of my TF700 since installing the Zeus ROM - another perfect of example of someone using software to get around the hardware limitations - and it works very well! Another example of "real world" results - that's all of the evidence that I need!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.

d14b0ll0s said:
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
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While I agree that random reboots are not simply theory, what does that have to do with what we are talking about here?
However, since you brought it up, I've personally never had a single random reboot on my TF700, which may be yet another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM)... So that just goes further to illustrate my point. I'm assuming that you are not running Zeus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

jtrosky said:
another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM.
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This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
BarryH_GEG said:
To show you what Zeus' impact is, here's a comparison to a Note and TF300 on JB. Red is perecent slower than the Note, green faster. After tweaking SQLite, the remainder of the TF700's IO scores remain significantly below that of the Note (or SGS3 or One X) and some are worse than stock. If you use the TF300 on JB as a proxy for how the TF700 would perform after the update the column on the far right shows the difference between the two.
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Wait until you see Zeus on Jelly Been. It's going to be so smooth and snappy and you will never think about I/O issue again!!!!

BarryH_GEG said:
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
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No problem. In the end this is still gray zone that (at least in my opinion) nobody knows what the end result is, and I think you stated well. It's really depends on user experience.
For those missed my last couple line update on opening thread. I actually had 1.1GB file download going on my infinity, and launched FF3 game, which was a breeze. No lag. So IO issue had been fixed partly from original already (assuming IO was really poor from get go, but I cannot confirm this because I do not have original firmware, and did not play FF3 when I had one). But I definitely noticed significantly far less ANR, which was one major reason I originally returned my infinity and hesitant to come back from Galaxy Note 10.1. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, it takes forever and even got ANR, which I hadn't seen for a while on my Infinity. Whether this is related IO or memory cap of 1GB or some other internal limitation is unknown, but since all I had was AirDroid transferring file and Horn is only other thing running, I am assuming 1GB is sufficient; hence, most likely related to IO issue. But having said this, how many would really complain about this? Not sure. Because even on my PC (which is not that high end) but I can basically get same issue. If I encode video and try to run high graphic PC game, the machine stalls, and even gives freeze. Would everyone complain about this? Some would and say that's why you get better PC. The other accepts it is what is, and simply don't encode, and play high end game at same time.
I am pretty satisfied with Infinity as all the concern I had before coming back to Infinity from Note seemed to be solved (at least for me) and got back to Full HD screen; however, there are clearly still people out there concerned of IO performance thus the topic continues to arise. Once everyone gets satisfactory IO result, I believe we will see significantly less discussion about this (if ever happens).
The fact we know are:
1. IO hardware on Infinity is last generation and not as fast as main stream current generation expensive tablets.
2. Software can change what user see (whole point my this particular thread)
Fact nobody knows
1. Degree of how much software can change user experience. Whether enough to completely hide relatively poor performance of underlying IO hardware. Or opposite extreme is basically just soften up a little without true effect on most users.
2. Whether ASUS will even try fixing it.
Benchmark number is great to assess, but I really don't think that's what users are really interested unless someone who just want to say "hey my benchmark score is high!" If this is the case, nobody probably would ever get Apple because they are usually not after benchmark of individual component but rather they use decent hardware, minimize bottleneck by deciding all the hardware on their own, and write optimized OS. But individual pieces are not cutting edge for its price.
And in all honest, I am a bit lost at this point after writing this thread, what is it exactly that we are calling IO issue? Browser2Ram improved my browser speed but even Final Fantasy 3 runs fine from launch while I download a big file at its maximum speed. So I don't think it's browser2ram that did trick here, but rather ASUS already fixed IO issue for downloading file completely hogs the system. If the issue is slow stock browser, that may not be IO related. It may simply be ASUS did not optimize the stock browser. Maybe my system runs so well because I have turned all the bloatware off and many stock user aren't?

I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Sent from my Rooted TF700T

i wish i saw this thread before i bought my Infinity + screen protector + case.
hope that JB will help with some of this, but i didn't realize it was just cheap-ass NAND.
ugh.

xPSYCHOTRONx said:
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
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http://mark-tech.blogspot.com/2012/06/browser2ram-fixes-transformer-prime.html

How's the overall performance of this tablet?

The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?

situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
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Had very very few ANR's before JB..
Now they are nonexistent! Buttery smooth like Google promised! :good::good:

This seems to be more of an ICS problem. I have the TF300T, and when I upgraded to JB, a LOT of the unresponsiveness was taken care of. I am not saying that the TF300 performs just as well as the TF700, but JB makes a dramatical difference.

To be honest its pretty bad on my end. If i download a file (even at 250kb/sec) it gets so sluggy its not even usable. This is the only problem i have, too bad its a big one.

I do not use android devices to download torrents unless I have no intentions to use them soon. Apparently, it seems that Android does not handle large files nearly as well as PCs and Macs. I have an Of Evo, and the phone would not turn back on Irvine turn the screen off when I begin to download a torrent. I thought that this tablet would change the game completely, but it did not. Still a great device, but I am learning its limits slowly. (Don't be concerned., because it is not many. I just have an eye for some off these little things.)
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app

to be honest, i was pretty pissed off at the ICS version of this tablet. there were heaps of glowing reviews out there, but the truth was here on XDA, only i found out too late. i was getting ANRs, had a white-screen freeze/reboot, the webbrowsing in Chrome and stock were BRUTAL. was even getting occasional stutters playing music from the microSD card. and come on, opening and closing the app drawer should not be occasion for lag! luckily, i avoided the build quality issues that some were having, but i really thought this tablet was not ready for primetime.
and then the JB update happened.
again, to be honest, i wasn't expecting much. but for me, it's been a revelation -- with JB, the TF700 is what it should have been to begin with. smmmoooooth. fast. responsive. no funny business.
hoping that future minor updates will only improve it.

If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.

zenaxe said:
If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.
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Yes, I see that, and I can certainly agree. As I continue to learn more about different devices, I slowly filter out that device is ideal for which task. Unfortunately, not enough people see things my way, and expect one device to work as good as any other device in their home...but it doesn't work that way.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app

situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
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Click to collapse
I/O itself is what is it. It is set by hardware, which benchmark shows. Infinity's IO is not as bad as some believe according to my research. Iconia A700, or other android tablet has similar scores on benchmark. So it is how current generation of Android tablet are generally designed. Some tablet though used better IO component such as Galaxy Note 10.1. But it does not have Full HD. When price of unit is similar, manufacture has to decide what to include and where to save.
As far as the user experience end, initially when I got TF700 the day of release in US. I had application not responding, almost complete froze while application is downloading from Playstore. These have changed (even before Jellybean).
1. ANR - Honestly, I rarely have this now. May be once or twice a week? But key here now is interrupt i.e. clicking home button will instantly interrupt and take me back to home screen. So no true freezing. I even got freeze application on iPad 2 or on Galaxy Note 10.1 at least once or twice a week. So in this regard, Infinity is now pretty much as good as it can get.
2. System Non-responsiveness while download - This had also been vastly improved. I did a little testing with internal network 1GB+ download in background, and launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag or delay. However, if I do the same with Horn it basically becomes non-playable. So depending on what you want to do, the issue may or may not be noticeable.
3. System lag while application install - This is still there. Though not to the point system complete froze, but stuttering and lag becomes noticeable. Though this is true even on my desktop sometimes, and I don't think iPad would even allow you to install application while you run other application. So I am ok.
So overall, I think what we attribute things to as IO issue is essentially resolved to the point it can be. If there is any option, Galaxy Note 10.1 may be only one it may perform better in this regard. So you have to list your priority as others say.

Yea just picked up a Note 10.1 and the performance is night and day versus the Prime that I had. It takes multi task to a whole new level and I mean really intense multi tasking such as downloading huge files and hardly a blip. Though the screen leaves something to be desired, its a good performance trade off.

Would you buy your TF700 again?

With all the warranty and alleged issues would you buy one again on sale or is there a different tablet you would get this times? Being 6'11, I need a 10 inch tablet but I'm on the fence but it seems like the safest bet and I didn't feel like risking the "China special".

Jimbo15 said:
With all the warranty issues and alleged issues would you buy one again on sale or is there a different tablet you would get this times? Being 6'11, I need a 10 inch tablet but I'm on the fence but it seems like the safest bet and I didn't feel like risking the "China special".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I would indeed. However, the TF700 stock is blah, you have to unlock the tablet to unleash its true potential. With ROMS like CyanogenMod and CromiX it makes it faster than a stock Nexus 7. But since it is about a year old It may be work to wait.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.4 Odex
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal

ntaecon seems
Tylorw1 said:
Actually, I would indeed. However, the TF700 stock is blah, you have to unlock the tablet to unleash its true potential. With ROMS like CyanogenMod and CromiX it makes it faster than a stock Nexus 7. But since it is about a year old It may be work to wait.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: Cromi-X 4.4 Odex
Kernal: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 Kernal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, took the plunge it was hard not to at >300.

I would buy it again without hesitation.
The combo with the dock and CromiX is still atm unbeatable.
On travel with 15hrs batt time watching full hd movies, do 90% on it what I do on my laptop, the microsdcard, the sdcard in the dock, the usb slot, no other combo is available atm that can beat that. Period.
Is there more to say?
Jimbo15 said:
With all the warranty and alleged issues would you buy one again on sale or is there a different tablet you would get this times? Being 6'11, I need a 10 inch tablet but I'm on the fence but it seems like the safest bet and I didn't feel like risking the "China special".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Asus Infinity TF700 with Dock

Congrats! Hope you can also find a great deal for the dock. From a productivity perspective, I would also buy it again-the keyboard and extra battery definitely puts the tablet above the rest in my opinion. From a multimedia perspective, I may have given more serious thought to Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 - I've heard it runs fairly smooth and having speakers in the front is a nice feature.

In a heartbeat.
Drenus said:
From a multimedia perspective, I may have given more serious thought to Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 - I've heard it runs fairly smooth and having speakers in the front is a nice feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really doesn't. I have a GT2 10.1, too, and it's utter rubbish. Sluggish, blurry, lags an awful lot... My TF700 on stock runs laps around the GT2 10.1.

ShadowLea said:
In a heartbeat.
It really doesn't. I have a GT2 10.1, too, and it's utter rubbish. Sluggish, blurry, lags an awful lot... My TF700 on stock runs laps around the GT2 10.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know I made the right decision with TF700! :good:

Jimbo15 said:
With all the warranty and alleged issues would you buy one again on sale or is there a different tablet you would get this times? Being 6'11, I need a 10 inch tablet but I'm on the fence but it seems like the safest bet and I didn't feel like risking the "China special".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not. While I haven't unlocked it yet, I did root it and for a while everything was great. Then ASUS pushed an update last December, I think, and from then on the tablet became the most frustrating I've ever used. Incredible lag (3 - 5 seconds for the menu to come up after tapping the lower right corner!!!) and other flaky behavior -- like root suddenly stopped working without my doing anything ... Voodoo showed it still rooted, but superuser was completely nonfunctional. Three reboots later root is working again (?!) and it's just back to being laggy.
I'll never buy another ASUS tablet again if they paid me.
mudge
P.S. I suppose I should unlock it and install a custom ROM one of these days ...

iCurmudgeon said:
Probably not. While I haven't unlocked it yet, I did root it and for a while everything was great. Then ASUS pushed an update last December, I think, and from then on the tablet became the most frustrating I've ever used. Incredible lag (3 - 5 seconds for the menu to come up after tapping the lower right corner!!!) and other flaky behavior -- like root suddenly stopped working without my doing anything ... Voodoo showed it still rooted, but superuser was completely nonfunctional. Three reboots later root is working again (?!) and it's just back to being laggy.
I'll never buy another ASUS tablet again if they paid me.
mudge
P.S. I suppose I should unlock it and install a custom ROM one of these days ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truthfully have you tried a factory reset and such? I am unlocked but did install the stock 4.2.1 and I felt it ran really well, compared to 4.1.1 anyways, which is what was pushed in December. If you had your tablet for 10 months, or already unlocked but having flashed CromiX, you should definitely do so .
Also I agree with another posted above even though I already commented once . Today I was flashing files, modding, for about 7 hours straight. I didnt have dock on but I had it with me. When the tablet hit about 30%, I put the dock on to recharge that battery. By the time the dock was at 0%, the tablet was back at 75% Now, if you can get 7 hours on 70%, with dock adding back up to 3/4 battery, its an easy 12-14 hours of tablet. I doubt any tablet out there can do that . A friend had a HTC phone, forget exact version. He was playing it for maybe 3 hours and his phone was already half way dead, and he didnt have a backup battery either .
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

iCurmudgeon said:
Probably not. While I haven't unlocked it yet, I did root it and for a while everything was great. Then ASUS pushed an update last December, I think, and from then on the tablet became the most frustrating I've ever used. Incredible lag (3 - 5 seconds for the menu to come up after tapping the lower right corner!!!) and other flaky behavior -- like root suddenly stopped working without my doing anything ... Voodoo showed it still rooted, but superuser was completely nonfunctional. Three reboots later root is working again (?!) and it's just back to being laggy.
I'll never buy another ASUS tablet again if they paid me.
mudge
P.S. I suppose I should unlock it and install a custom ROM one of these days ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlock and all your problems will disappear. It's weird to think a third party can advance a tab better than the company's own developers, but they can tenfold.

No.
And I shouldn't have to massage it into acceptable working order by violating the warranty.

flhthemi said:
No.
And I shouldn't have to massage it into acceptable working order by violating the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A warranty that only fixes hardware issues, not software. The only way to actually get an acceptable ROM, to me anyways, is to unlock. I personally think 4.2.1 fresh runs great, however it is bloated, and the stock kernel could use some of _That's tweaking to make it acceptable, again personal opinion. And sbdags or dasunsrules, dont know if I spelled correct, will treat help you much more then ASUS will ever software wise.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

flhthemi said:
No.
And I shouldn't have to massage it into acceptable working order by violating the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is what it is. If you're unhappy with it, you have three options: Take it back, keep it and endlessly complain about it, or flash a tweaked rom.
It does seem a wierd place to complain about it though, on forums where people have found the solution for all of us. People who have risked their warranties also for the benefit of everyone.. just saying.

CiaronDarcOne said:
It is what it is. If you're unhappy with it, you have three options: Take it back, keep it and endlessly complain about it, or flash a tweaked rom.
It does seem a wierd place to complain about it though, on forums where people have found the solution for all of us. People who have risked their warranties also for the benefit of everyone.. just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After 1 or two months of use,if a problem doesnt occur, then more then likely no hardware problem will occur. If something happens, like a screen breaking, they will still place the blame on you. It is only a warranty from defects, not accidental use. So I dont even see the use after a couple months. Truthfully my screen has defects in it, but I live with it. It is not a HUGE dual and can only see it when the screen is off. So it dont actually effect the use of it while you are using it, so no sense in sending it in, and I unlocked knowing the defect, but it is a minor one. The bigger defect was the software ROM on it, but that is fixed .
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

Jimbo15 said:
With all the warranty and alleged issues would you buy one again on sale or is there a different tablet you would get this times? Being 6'11, I need a 10 inch tablet but I'm on the fence but it seems like the safest bet and I didn't feel like risking the "China special".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
The ASUS TF700T worked fine out-of-the-box, but lagged with the stock ROM. Unlocking it and installing CleanROM Inheritance was the best thing I ever did.
There are two things that I wish it had out-of-the box. The first is a USB port and the second is a version with cellular data services.
I have the USB port adapter and love the fact that ASUS made it a powered USB port adapter, but having a true USB port would have been preferable.
There are times when I wish that I had cellular data services on it, in addition to WiFi. Most phones today have the ability to act as a hotspot, so it's not a big deal, but it would have been more convenient.

Yes. I've used it for university and the dock combo meant I've typed all my notes on ever note. I used it stock for 5 months and even then it was okay. Recently since the latest jb it got slower and so I got the bug for flashing customs. Never looked back since. Performance is amazing. Is quick, snappy, access apps quickly. Annoying it took to now to realise it but glad I did.
At the end of the day you use a tablet to use noted to look at. I'd rather get my moneys worth out of it than barely use it as its buggy etc.
If if breaks it breaks which I hope to god it doesn't. But already I used it and wasnt frustrated with it.
I love it. Which there were more accessories I.e a real smart cover but still love it. Tried the Samsung 10.2 and was awful compared. Resolution was horrid.
I'm sat in car on a long drive with this tethered to my phone loving life.
Just enjoy it. Use it.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app

hell the F*ck No!
Should have bought a Ultra Book and a Kindle HD.
This thing cost me $750 with the keyboard.
and I prefer to use my ICS phone that's almost 2 yrs old for just about anything I can do with the tablet except videos.
It's totally laggy, and unusable if a app is updating in the background. Some websites take 30+ sec to load.
I've had more random reboots with this tablet then I've had in my entire life with Windows, and I go back to Win 3.1!
My take is: Asus is great at offering features and design, but they suck on execution for anything other than motherboards.

While I enjoy my tablet greatly I'm not sure I would recommend it. I'm one of the small number of people who for whatever reason, their tablets are unable to unlock using the unlocking tool. This renders me unable to experience what others are saying concerning flashing better roms to really make the tablet perform. I also can't get OTAs or user the device tracker. It's currently shipping back from RMA to fix some light bleed on the screen and the issue with the tablet being unable to get OTAs/device tracker to work. I just called and the service rep said the screen was replaced with a new one and all tests they ran on the system came back fine. He couldn't say if the main problem that concerned me of the tablet not communicating with the Asus servers was fixed but there should be a detailed report of what was done. If the unlock tool doesn't work fine, but the tablet should be able to receive any updates Asus releases from the moment it's turned on after purchase. I was fine running the stock rom with any bloatware turned off. Coming from the Prime, it is a smooth user experience for me. My day is not ruined if it takes an extra 3 seconds to open an application.
With the dock this tablet is truly remarkable. The extra battery and being able to type takes the device beyond other tablets in usage. Sure anyone can get a blue tooth keyboard but that is only going to drain the battery faster. It also has the usb port and full size sd-card slot. The screen is really nice and even though I have a anti-glare protector which does subtract from it's clear picture, it's still great.
The reason I wouldn't recommend it is the price and lack of support from some of the big game developers. This is supposed to be a top notch portable multimedia experience and with the gpu in it we shouldn't be stuck running games which are not fully using the hardware. Look around the forums as there are ways to side load the games on to the system but that doesn't mean they will all function properly. Concerning price, a person will end up dropping about $650-700 bucks after tax for the tablet dock combo. If I were to be buying a tablet again and what I've told two coworkers, I'd go for the TF300 line. Sure the screen is not as good but the tablet/dock combo comes out to about $500. Or I would hold out and see what summer tablets are lined up. So far I'm actually not impressed with what the manufactures have out now. I'm interested in seeing what Samsung's new Exynos processors can do in a tablet.

Enjoying my tab, arrived overnight refurbed for $291 pristene condition. Unfortunately it came updated and is on 4.2.1 the kernels 3.1.10, would of like to of tried it before the update and I believe the unlocking options are easier (still confirming). More testing to do before I can unlock what are the most popular\necessary tweaks?
Edit: nevermind this is thread I failed to find b4 asking http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1834521

No

[Q] Dead GPU?

EDIT:
I noticed in the tricktermod app, the gpu was being reported as 0mhz (not sure if this is becuase its idle)
So I decided to flash back to the factory image HRI39 (honeycomb) to see if I could get any performance improvements
and i must say, its still incredibly sluggish and choppy. I'm almost conviced the GPU is dead or not being used at all...
Any advice or things to test? I have linux/windows and by far no means a noob of any sort, just not sure what I can do from this point or if im SOL.
Previous post
I have a stingray (4g) xoom, this is my second one. First one (wingray) I returned after a week when it first came out (for a laptop)
I bought this one off swappa because I still feel its the sturdiest tablet and the bootloader can be unlocked
I remember installing EOS, tiamat, dualbooting with backtrack ...etc tablet was always snappy and fast
The one I have now seems to be sluggish. Stock, Bigpart, CM this CM that... honestly the only time I even saw what could have been the performance I remember was when i brought it all the way back to honeycomb lol
The sluggish I'm referring to is a delay in response, hanging, no capacitive response from screen, low frame rates in games like plants vs zombies when you finish a wave.
I've tried overclocking, under clocking (you never know), a few kernels, 9001% stock.. same symptoms.
I've gotten curious if maybe the unit is defective...
Does anyone have any advice or a rom/kernal they are using that is smooth like butter. doesn't have to be the latest and greatest android. hell I prefer the releases before 4.3 with the tablet UI
thanks

updated original post with new information

Tf700t too slow

Hi, i have in my house 2 tf101 tablets. Itought that tf700t is faster cause it have tegra 3, i played asphalt 8 even on meduim and it runs slow with lag .ihave stock rom ,if ill change to 4.4 its runs better?and the options of super ips panel and power saving will be included? Thanks

Go for the TF701. It's much faster than the 700 and prices are coming down all the time. Saw it on Amazon for $279.

But i already have tf 700. If i update there is still remain asus mode??

Sorry, misunderstood your question.
You cannot "update" the TF700 to 4.4 since Asus did not release (and most likely never will) an official update.
You can custom rom it however and yes, it will run much better. Don't know about your game - don't use it.
If you flash a KK custom rom there will be hardly anything Asus left on the tablet, but power saving will be there in one form or another (depending on what rom you flash).
Super IPS is nothing but maximum brightness, so you still have the functionality but it will not be in the quick settings or some such....