Undoubtedly this is the hottest topic on this forum (so it seems). Based on what I have seen, there has been no convincing proof on either way. The benchmarks score comparison are great, but my belief is it may not reflect day to day experience as most of time you never push the system to its max.
So my hypothesis is Transformer Infintiy's I/O issue related user experience can be fixed by software even if the underlying issue had been hardware related.
Since some people believes the opposite, and this is infinity forum. I wanted to make myself right for the sake of infinity owners. But given no previous good convincing test, I have decided to test one thing.
First video
This is one example video that Anandtech showed back in July that Infinity is indeed experiencing I/O issue. This video simply proved that while I/O is in use, the whole system slowed down. Based on the date of this post, which is 7/26/2012, I am assuming the firmware used was V9.4.5.22.
Second video
The credit of this video goes to BarryH. The reason why I included this is Galaxy note 10.1, which I owned for 3 weeks should be used as gold standard in this comparison as it is perhaps the only worth mentioning competition of TF700T and it is really great tablet of its own. You can clearly see that the downloading file in background really had no effect at all on the Galaxy Note 10.1.
Third video
The above is my very first Youtube video ever. But that's not a point. This is running stock ROM, rooted. No build prop tweaks. The only special thing I have installed here is Browser2Ram. So for this basically, I used AirDroid (WIFI file transfer application) and transferred 1G+ file over my network. While doing so, I basically opened browser, and went to the same site as Galaxy note 10.1 did in above. The little delay after opening browser is not hang in browser, but simply I forgot to set to landscape mode.
Conclusion: Based on these I believe I can conclude followings:
Compare first to third. Infinity had already significantly improved its I/O performance. How did it do? Clearly not by changing hardware, but rather software. So this proves my hypothesis of software can indeed fix I/O issue that user actually see.
*Please note that since I have browser2ram installed, this may be different for pure stock user experience. And Zeus users may even have better experience than me.
Special thanks goes to BarryH_GEG. Without him posting first two youtube clips I wouldn't have actually realized that Infinity's I/O issue had already been nearly completely fixed on my unit.
.
For clarification, basically all I am doing here is that there is indeed a way that what we call IO issue that can be alleviated by software modification. So if anyone state its all hardware and can never be fixed/improved, that is incorrect statement. However, this does not prove stock Infinity in the future will receive such update. So you can have a hope, but hope has no guarantee.
Different people use device differently so I say try the device and update to the latest firmware and see if you still face the IO issue that is significant enough for you. I can say that it is definitely not as bad as first video show. Whether you can tolerate the IO lag or not is simply your personal preference. In the end, all devices have lag to certain degree when stressed. Even PS3, Xbox 360, or high end PC games gets frame drops when you stress them. The question is whether you care, and whether you push to the limit.
If I ever get chance, I will try to turn off Browser2Ram and try do the same test again and see what the true stock experience is, though I am certain it is not as bad as Anandtech video.
Update 9/24/2012
Since some people are pointing to the issue resolution is purely due to Browser2Ram, I did same test with this time while AirDroid transferring 1.1 GB file over the WIFI, I launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag even while launching. Everything is smooth. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, I did notice significantly longer time to load. So this is simply proving what I have said. We can fix issue to certain degree but whether the certain degree is enough for a specific user is really dependent. I am ok not being able to play Horn while I am transferring 1GB data, but some may not.
Of course Browser2RAM will help on this, you're caching to just RAM instead of the stupidly slow NAND memory Asus decided to put in their flagship device. Try the same "test" on complete stock and you'll see that it's a vastly different experience.
Zeus ROM works around the I/O issue by reducing or even eliminating SQLite fsyncs. Risky business for your data, good for performance. I like my data without corruption, so I'll pass, but others may not see it that way. They simply want the performance this tablet should have had in the first place.
Asus did reduce the overall sluggishness slightly with the .26 update that changed from NOOP scheduler to CFQ in the kernel, but the tablet still stutters. Browsing is far from smooth, even with alternative browsers like Dolphin HD. Performance is decent right after a reboot, but once memory fills up and Android starts its memory management and closing down processes (doing a lot of fsyncs in the process) it grinds to a halt. This wouldn't be a problem if flash I/O performance was higher.
The CM-based ROMs starting to pop up for the TF700 seems to help on the performance as well, and that's still with the 2.6.39.4-based kernel. CM's always been smoother than pretty much any stock device in my experience though, so no surprise there. They can never completely get rid of it though, since it's a hardware issue. Asus were stupid and chose cheap, slow NAND that gets totally crippled if you're doing random writes. There's no magic software to just fix it.
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
Einride said:
I'm sorry, but I don't really see anything new here, and your "evidence" isn't really that, simply because you're not running stock. You're using Browser2RAM which greatly increases browsing performance by using RAM, which is several magnitudes faster than NAND flash. It's not even comparable. The TF700 (and TF201 and TF300 and TF101) I/O issue can never be completely fixed in software, only (slightly) improved, often at the cost of data safety (disable SQLite fsyncs or available RAM (Browser2RAM).
It's all well-known by now that Asus ****ed up (again!). If it weren't for the oh-so-sweet high resolution display and keyboard dock I'd get a different tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
tf201 said:
I've got to push back a bit. I think this is firmware related, but not of the device of individual components. I think this can be fixed with "software"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can continue thinking that if it makes you feel better. I like and enjoy my Infinity but as a digital design engineer, to me this seems to clearly be a design issue @ the hardware level and will always limit the overall system to some degree. There are hard limits in any hardware software system. <Shrug>
My best advice to an end user is what I would give for any device issue: to decide whether it is a deal breaker for you *as it stands right now* and not sit around and wait for or bank on some kludgy cure that may be worse than the disease.
It's not too bad for me, I don't do tons of random I/O or web browsing. In fact, I'd say it would have taken me a long time to notice this on my own without the benchmarking and threads here... If it was unacceptable I would cut my losses and sell the tab and get a different device. Life is short, guys.
zenaxe said:
Einride is on target. This is a hardware issue, so any "fix" is going to be a kludge and come with a bunch of compromise. I can't believe ASUS specced the same crazy slow flash on the 700 that they did the 201/300.
FWIW, The best/cleverest hack I have seen is the TF201 dev who has been playing with remounting the internal SD card to point at the removable microSD card. If this can be made to work smoothly, it means that if you have an external card that is specced much higher than the stock internal flash you could eliminate the issue completely.
But of course that is really hacky. It's one of those you could brick if you don't install it right kind of deals so I don't ever see it being a mainstream options for these tabs unless ASUS productized it which would be a big expense in support for them, so, again, it'll never happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, again (and I now added to opening post) my point is not denying IO hardware issue existence. I am just simply providing proof here that it can be improved by software (to certain degree). Whether it is to the extent of users complete satisfaction would be different issue. However, to be honest, if you see my video and it was original retail packaged Infinity fully on stock and from the day 1 performance, don't you think less people would raise a voice? It's because software workaround can change what you see as user, and that's all I am proving here. So yes. this should give a hope to someone who thought, it's hardware related so never can be fixed. However, this does not confirm or deny ASUS to take a step and fix this because I am sure it will take some effort on their part, which clearly they have not spent so far if this had been a problem existed since TF201.
To put into extreme, they can modify OS such that all front end basic programs such as stock browser, movie player or whatever to actually run on RAM if that is what makes the difference. But would they do it? Absolute not, because they won't spend money on such big project for device that had already sold well and gained essentially best Android tablet metacritic reviews (I did not take actual poll but just following Infinity news daily, it seems like pretty much most site gives the highest score for android tablet).
So yup. I don't disagree with you guys that IO issue there. But my point here was to help people clarify that there are indeed ways to make better by software. Whether happens or not is out of my control and would simply be guess for anyone.
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
HoushaSen said:
Hi Einride,
Sorry if I directed you wrong way. But my point here is not to prove stock has already fixed issue or not even to say IO issue can be completely fixed. The latter is simply unknown. But I am just proving here that there are ways software can make difference in user front, which some people questions.
To be honest, how do you even know RAM is not bottle neck? What about GPU, which is far inferior to the new Ipad in fact its even worth than iPad 2 by far margin? We see a number, and see its less than others so concluded its the conundrum, which could be true by good chance but not a proof.
Here I am basically proved whatever the method is, there is a way to improve what people call IO issue can be alleviated by software approach.
Because Anandtech showed IO issue originally on infinity stating background 2MBps download resulted in marked degradation in browser performance. I basically had 1GB file transfer over WIFI using Airdroid.
So I basically proved here that my infinity, which clearly has not touched anything on hardwarewise, but have improved performance since Anandtech review.
As for Zeus fsync, I don't use Zeus so cannot speak for it. But if they turn off fsync and still keep the system stable without data loss, why would you care?
Having said all this, I don't know if ASUS will ever put effort in fixing issue because if they would why won't they simply install browser2ram as part of their firmware? But they are doing something as I noticed they took out pixit from background with latest firmware, which kept running in background for no reason..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No misleading here, don't worry
You are just describing software workarounds, though. None of which can permanently fix it entirely since it's a hardware limitation.
A proper "fix" would greatly increase I/O performance with no downsides. Browser2ram helps browsing, nothing else. Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
tf201 said:
I'm not just a noob either. Here's why I think this is software related:
1) The performance is so bad that it precludes just the hardware. Maybe the hardware sucks but there is alot of performance lost somewhere cheap NAND from 2 years ago outperforms SQLite operations by >10x.
2) Performance seems to degrade with time. This is indictive of a wear leveling and writing algorithm which may or may not be able to be adjusted with firmware.
3) SQLite fsync performance appears to be tied to T3 frequency, that suggest there is something with the T3 drivers that could be tweaked vs NAND hardware limitations.
4)...
I'll also mention the OP is right. ASUS could do things with caching data before writing, and writing in chunks the NAND is best with limiting Virtual Ram etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that they can probably make improvements with these kind of tweaks. The extent of the fix will always be limited by the low spec hardware in the end, though. So, I wouldn't encourage people to expect ginormous strides. For the most part, I expect more of the same with some evolutionary improvements but I doubt they will ever make a quantum leap. I would be angry if they made it worse but I'm an optimist at heart so I at least expect some slow improvement over time.
IMHO, as it stands it is usable and I'm hoping they can take it to "decent" (say the level pepole are seeing in Zeus). But to folks who are banging their heads against this constantly and unsatisfied as a result, I would still say there will be no true fix and you should bail on this device. It's a personal choice.
If you are willing to forgo your warrantly, I guess you could demo one of the custom ROMs. That probably shows you the extent of a software fix. But beware some of those fixes (cached writes) do put data integrity at risk. There is always a trade off.
Einride said:
Disabling SQLite fsyncs increases risk of data corruption or data loss at the cost of better overall performance.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I understand the fsync thing correctly it can only cause issues if the device suddenly powers off, correct? While that may be a risk, it's a *very* small risk and well worth the performance improvement, in my opinion... I've used ROMs that disable fsync for quite some time and have never had a single issue...
I tend to go by real-world results instead of "theory"...
Same thing with "browser2ram" - it can only cause an issue if the device suddenly powers off and even then - so you lose some web cache data - so what?? Who cares if you lose your browser cache - it's just a browser cache!
Besides, if your device is powering off suddenly, you have much bigger problems than worrying about your cached web data!
I truly agree with the OP. People get so caught up on benchmarks and "what could happen" (even though in practice, it really doesn't)... Truth is, we all just want a better end-user experience - if they can "work around" hardware limitations via software then it makes sense to do that.
Obviously, the hardware isn't going to change, so complaining about that will never help whereas implementing software tweaks to work-around these hardware limitations *does* actually help...
Just my two cents!
By the way, I've been *very* happy with the performance of my TF700 since installing the Zeus ROM - another perfect of example of someone using software to get around the hardware limitations - and it works very well! Another example of "real world" results - that's all of the evidence that I need!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
d14b0ll0s said:
Unfortunately random reboots are not simply theory in case of the Infinity, especially if you're doing some memory-aggravating stuff on yours. I'm getting one every few days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree that random reboots are not simply theory, what does that have to do with what we are talking about here?
However, since you brought it up, I've personally never had a single random reboot on my TF700, which may be yet another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM)... So that just goes further to illustrate my point. I'm assuming that you are not running Zeus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
jtrosky said:
another example that most of this stuff can be fixed by software (since that does not occur on Zeus ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
BarryH_GEG said:
To show you what Zeus' impact is, here's a comparison to a Note and TF300 on JB. Red is perecent slower than the Note, green faster. After tweaking SQLite, the remainder of the TF700's IO scores remain significantly below that of the Note (or SGS3 or One X) and some are worse than stock. If you use the TF300 on JB as a proxy for how the TF700 would perform after the update the column on the far right shows the difference between the two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait until you see Zeus on Jelly Been. It's going to be so smooth and snappy and you will never think about I/O issue again!!!!
BarryH_GEG said:
This is from the Quadrant thread. The rest of the conversation describing what SQLite is and the role it plays in overall IO performance is in that thread. All Zeus' ROM does is tweak the SQLite settings and if you read more in the other thread you'll understand why that plays a relatively minor role in overall IO performance. Bottom line is whether or not someone has memory and/or IO issues is more determined by what they do with their device than the s/w running on it. Which is why some people running stock are perfectly content while others are pulling their hair out.
P.S. - Sorry HoushaSen, the lack of information on what SQLite is and the obsession with Quadrant brought me back in to the discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. In the end this is still gray zone that (at least in my opinion) nobody knows what the end result is, and I think you stated well. It's really depends on user experience.
For those missed my last couple line update on opening thread. I actually had 1.1GB file download going on my infinity, and launched FF3 game, which was a breeze. No lag. So IO issue had been fixed partly from original already (assuming IO was really poor from get go, but I cannot confirm this because I do not have original firmware, and did not play FF3 when I had one). But I definitely noticed significantly far less ANR, which was one major reason I originally returned my infinity and hesitant to come back from Galaxy Note 10.1. However, if I launch Horn instead of FF3, it takes forever and even got ANR, which I hadn't seen for a while on my Infinity. Whether this is related IO or memory cap of 1GB or some other internal limitation is unknown, but since all I had was AirDroid transferring file and Horn is only other thing running, I am assuming 1GB is sufficient; hence, most likely related to IO issue. But having said this, how many would really complain about this? Not sure. Because even on my PC (which is not that high end) but I can basically get same issue. If I encode video and try to run high graphic PC game, the machine stalls, and even gives freeze. Would everyone complain about this? Some would and say that's why you get better PC. The other accepts it is what is, and simply don't encode, and play high end game at same time.
I am pretty satisfied with Infinity as all the concern I had before coming back to Infinity from Note seemed to be solved (at least for me) and got back to Full HD screen; however, there are clearly still people out there concerned of IO performance thus the topic continues to arise. Once everyone gets satisfactory IO result, I believe we will see significantly less discussion about this (if ever happens).
The fact we know are:
1. IO hardware on Infinity is last generation and not as fast as main stream current generation expensive tablets.
2. Software can change what user see (whole point my this particular thread)
Fact nobody knows
1. Degree of how much software can change user experience. Whether enough to completely hide relatively poor performance of underlying IO hardware. Or opposite extreme is basically just soften up a little without true effect on most users.
2. Whether ASUS will even try fixing it.
Benchmark number is great to assess, but I really don't think that's what users are really interested unless someone who just want to say "hey my benchmark score is high!" If this is the case, nobody probably would ever get Apple because they are usually not after benchmark of individual component but rather they use decent hardware, minimize bottleneck by deciding all the hardware on their own, and write optimized OS. But individual pieces are not cutting edge for its price.
And in all honest, I am a bit lost at this point after writing this thread, what is it exactly that we are calling IO issue? Browser2Ram improved my browser speed but even Final Fantasy 3 runs fine from launch while I download a big file at its maximum speed. So I don't think it's browser2ram that did trick here, but rather ASUS already fixed IO issue for downloading file completely hogs the system. If the issue is slow stock browser, that may not be IO related. It may simply be ASUS did not optimize the stock browser. Maybe my system runs so well because I have turned all the bloatware off and many stock user aren't?
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Sent from my Rooted TF700T
i wish i saw this thread before i bought my Infinity + screen protector + case.
hope that JB will help with some of this, but i didn't realize it was just cheap-ass NAND.
ugh.
xPSYCHOTRONx said:
I don't see Browser2ram in the store. Got a link?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://mark-tech.blogspot.com/2012/06/browser2ram-fixes-transformer-prime.html
Related
I'm not necessarily a noob to android. I've flashed a few phones, dabbled with rooting and custom roms, but nothing too serious.
My first question about these Tegra 2 processors is fairly simple. I want to know if overclocking them makes them more media capable? I have a Droid Charge and had a Galaxy S before it, and both phones were perfectly capable of playing a 720p mkv with nary a stutter. It boggles my mind that I have to convert every video file before I drop it onto the Xoom. It's not a huge hassle but it's rather interesting a single core hummingbird can handle it with ease and a dual core clocked at the same speed has so much trouble.
Second question is this. Is there any development going on for the Xoom Family Edition? I haven't noticed much other than news posted regarding this version on this forum, so I'm not sure. It's obviously not the hit they were hoping it would be, there's a whole 3-4 cases made to fit it, and virtually no accessories for it like there is for the Xoom (docks and whatnot). If overclocking helps without nuking battery life, I'd be interested. I wouldn't know where to start developing, I'm definitely not a skilled programmer, but I would be happy to help any way I could (minus a potential brick, I can't afford a new tab)!
Bump. Any opinions?
Regarding the overclocking the tegra 2 , yes it will be more powerful therefore increasing media playback performance. Although battery usually drops faster you can install set CPU to set profiles for when the screen is off etc...
As for the Xoom I myself am not very knowledgeable about that device so I cannot effectivily answer your question.
Hope this helps!
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Remember that the Xoom screen is so much bigger, so takes a lot more juice to playback at same resolution, but overclocked cpu does make a difference for sure. Also, if on ICS, go into developers settings menu and turn off animation or set to .5. Makes a big difference.
The Xoom FE (like the Xoom2 and the Xyboard) don't have unlockable bootloaders and noone yet has found the exploit to gain root access. Hence no development...so far. If you find the way, you will be popular among the owners of those devices.
If you overclock the Xoom it will of course consume the battery faster, as with anything that requires voltage tweaking. The main thing to remember is research the governors that will adjust what clock you're running at and when you're running it. Interactive usually gives the best performance speedwise while Ondemand gives you a mix of performance and battery life.
Your media playback issue could possibly be due to several factors. Processor, RAM, SD read rate, and the media player are the main culprits that come to mind.
If it is the processor then overclocking will most likely help. There is a minor off chance that the Tegra2 does not contain certain instruction sets included on the other devices processor that allow it to decode the Matroskiva, mkv, format as readily.
If it is the RAM, your best bet is to get a task killer and use it to kill everything before you try to play the video. You can also go into settings and go to individual apps to force kill them which tends to work better than most task killers.
If it is the SD card rate, research fairly deeply into the subject because I personally have heard many mixed reviews in regards to the Xoom and higher "class" or access rate SD cards. Eventually I plan on getting a collection of them to run some testing myself for a unified chart, but until then your best bet would be to ask experienced Xoom users, and browse these forums.
If it is the app then try looking around to see what other players are out there. Some people use different decoding codecs than others, and some tend to work better on mobile devices with limited instruction sets.
Mind you, if i remember correctly, the other two devices also display at a lower resolution, which would take less power, and the app used to play the file might not support the larger resolutions as well.
And if you have not already toyed around with your Xoom and hacking it, just as a warning, like all other devices it can be easy to brick. Make sure you have read at least 2 different tutorials on how to do it beforehand as some are much more clearly stated than others.
Hope this helps you some
I hadn't thought about the memory card being the issue. I'm not sure how fast the internal memory card is, but my external is only a class 2, so that could have an effect on load times and everything. I know the RAM isn't really a problem, I don't do much on my tablet, and I've tried killing apps and fresh boots and nothing seems to work. It only seems to use about 450mb out of 1024mb for apps, and out of that only 124 was in use last time I checked.
I have tried many other media players though, including Dice Player which seems to be unanimously the best, and nothing I've tried is able to play an mkv on the Xoom. I typically try downloaded tv shows before movies, which include 500mb Big Bang Theory mkv files and 1gb Top Gear mkv files at 720p. Neither play at all in the stock player and play very badly in Dice or other players.
I can't wait until ICS on the Xoom FE, I'm betting it fixes a lot of my issues. Such as the browser constantly force closing and my wifi slowing down the longer the tablet is on.
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had very very few ANR's before JB..
Now they are nonexistent! Buttery smooth like Google promised! :good::good:
This seems to be more of an ICS problem. I have the TF300T, and when I upgraded to JB, a LOT of the unresponsiveness was taken care of. I am not saying that the TF300 performs just as well as the TF700, but JB makes a dramatical difference.
To be honest its pretty bad on my end. If i download a file (even at 250kb/sec) it gets so sluggy its not even usable. This is the only problem i have, too bad its a big one.
I do not use android devices to download torrents unless I have no intentions to use them soon. Apparently, it seems that Android does not handle large files nearly as well as PCs and Macs. I have an Of Evo, and the phone would not turn back on Irvine turn the screen off when I begin to download a torrent. I thought that this tablet would change the game completely, but it did not. Still a great device, but I am learning its limits slowly. (Don't be concerned., because it is not many. I just have an eye for some off these little things.)
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
to be honest, i was pretty pissed off at the ICS version of this tablet. there were heaps of glowing reviews out there, but the truth was here on XDA, only i found out too late. i was getting ANRs, had a white-screen freeze/reboot, the webbrowsing in Chrome and stock were BRUTAL. was even getting occasional stutters playing music from the microSD card. and come on, opening and closing the app drawer should not be occasion for lag! luckily, i avoided the build quality issues that some were having, but i really thought this tablet was not ready for primetime.
and then the JB update happened.
again, to be honest, i wasn't expecting much. but for me, it's been a revelation -- with JB, the TF700 is what it should have been to begin with. smmmoooooth. fast. responsive. no funny business.
hoping that future minor updates will only improve it.
If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.
zenaxe said:
If you are downloading lots of torrents, you need a different tablet than the ASUS series, IMHO. After JB, it's a fantastic daily driver but the for I/O junkies the hardware will always have some limitation. For general streaming, apps, games, browsing, it is awesome but doing huge background downloads will always be suboptimal on this hardware. If that is your use model you want something else.
For downloading apps and updating stuff, JB seems to have improved things well enough that most basic users and lots of power users (including myself) are not going to bothered by it much if at all, but it will never be a screamer in the I/O dept.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I see that, and I can certainly agree. As I continue to learn more about different devices, I slowly filter out that device is ideal for which task. Unfortunately, not enough people see things my way, and expect one device to work as good as any other device in their home...but it doesn't work that way.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using xda app-developers app
situman said:
The Prime had I/O issues and so did the TF300 (which I briefly owned). I read the Nexus 7 does as well. Every time I'm downloading torrents or even an app from the Play Store, the system would just be non-responsive. Or my browser would just give me errors saying App is Not Responding. Do you guys experience this on the Tf700? Is this an ICS problem or does it happen on JB as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I/O itself is what is it. It is set by hardware, which benchmark shows. Infinity's IO is not as bad as some believe according to my research. Iconia A700, or other android tablet has similar scores on benchmark. So it is how current generation of Android tablet are generally designed. Some tablet though used better IO component such as Galaxy Note 10.1. But it does not have Full HD. When price of unit is similar, manufacture has to decide what to include and where to save.
As far as the user experience end, initially when I got TF700 the day of release in US. I had application not responding, almost complete froze while application is downloading from Playstore. These have changed (even before Jellybean).
1. ANR - Honestly, I rarely have this now. May be once or twice a week? But key here now is interrupt i.e. clicking home button will instantly interrupt and take me back to home screen. So no true freezing. I even got freeze application on iPad 2 or on Galaxy Note 10.1 at least once or twice a week. So in this regard, Infinity is now pretty much as good as it can get.
2. System Non-responsiveness while download - This had also been vastly improved. I did a little testing with internal network 1GB+ download in background, and launched Final Fantasy 3. No lag or delay. However, if I do the same with Horn it basically becomes non-playable. So depending on what you want to do, the issue may or may not be noticeable.
3. System lag while application install - This is still there. Though not to the point system complete froze, but stuttering and lag becomes noticeable. Though this is true even on my desktop sometimes, and I don't think iPad would even allow you to install application while you run other application. So I am ok.
So overall, I think what we attribute things to as IO issue is essentially resolved to the point it can be. If there is any option, Galaxy Note 10.1 may be only one it may perform better in this regard. So you have to list your priority as others say.
Yea just picked up a Note 10.1 and the performance is night and day versus the Prime that I had. It takes multi task to a whole new level and I mean really intense multi tasking such as downloading huge files and hardly a blip. Though the screen leaves something to be desired, its a good performance trade off.
Tab2:
Pros:
Better Screen
Better Battery Life
Better Speakers
Better web performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_fePknM2U
TF300
Better general performance (in theory) (but reports of I/O lag)
Runs Tegra games
Better camera
Am I in the ball park here?
This tablet will be mostly used for web browsing, document editing/viewing and Youtube watching.
I'm not very interested in applying any Frankenstein solutions (ie: data2sd, browser2ram). In principle, for a fair comparison, a system should work well in stock minus the bloatware.
How do you feel about the I/O lag and performance in general?
Which one would you choose? Tab 2 or TF300?
i looked at both and chose the tf300
there's no slot for microsd card
and last the price
look at the tf700 (without dock to reduce price)
Tab 2 has microSD.
and they are the same price
Now that everyone is back from work, any ideas?
Not trying to start a flame war or anything.
A friend of mine owns a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 and I own the TF300 and from experience my TF300 runs circles around his tablet. The screen and speaker placement is better on the Galaxy tab ill give it that but the performance is lacking. It can get very choppy just flicking through home screens. After installing a custom rom on his tablet it did improve a bit but the TF300 was still the better performer.
Edit: For Web Browsing I use Boat Browser and it runs super smooth. you should test it out.
HorsexD said:
A friend of mine owns a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 and I own the TF300 and from experience my TF300 runs circles around his tablet. The screen and speaker placement is better on the Galaxy tab ill give it that but the performance is lacking. It can get very choppy just flicking through home screens. After installing a custom rom his tablet did improve a bit but the TF300 was still the better performer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is your web performance? I am very interested in that since it's the major use case.
is yours stock or custom rom with stuff like browser2ram?
klau1 said:
How is your web performance? I am very interested in that since it's the major use case.
is yours stock or custom rom with stuff like browser2ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is rooted but stock was still smoother then the Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 with a Custom Rom. To have a general comparison I would go to your local best buy and check out the display models. The choppiness of the Galaxy tab 2 can get annoying. Also I dont think browser2Ram works on Boat browser and it was still out performing the stock browser.
Tf300 is a better choice. The keyboard dock made the difference. I owned the tab before and return it to purchase the tf300.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
seeing as your asking this on a tf300 forum ,you would have had to of had a very bad time with the tf300 to say get anything else i had the tf101 before and before that the acer a500 and this just tops the lot , the tegra 3 chip and ddr3 help screen is a bit poor compared to others but its a tablet and i let screen clarity go for the cost otherwise i would of had the infinity tab but all it offered was not worth the extra :laugh:
IO lags in browser are very annoying. I have tried several browsers - Stock, Chrome, Dolphin with Jetpack, Firefox, Boat and ALL of them are lagging. I have compared browsing experience with iPad2 and IO lags are very evident. Apart from this TF300 is not so bad.
As a previous user of the TF101, I noticed the variability of device quality in both Hardware and Software performance.
What I'm hearing here is that everyone seems to agree I/O problems persist, but some are claiming better performance than others.
This is a similar story to the TF101. The one I got was perfect, even faster when compared to the Prime. All the while, others I know in person had to return theirs due to unacceptable performance.
At least with the TF101, I can verify that it's not just perception. My friends who had to return their TF101, personally found mine faster. In fact, it was because of mine that they bought theirs assuming all the units would perform identically.
My friend who bought his TF201, also bought it because of how impressive he found my TF101. But again, it was to his disappointment that his did not perform nearly as well.
Sounds like the same old story of Asus is replaying itself every product revision thanks to their poor QA.
I would rather get something I'm sure will perform satisfactorily over something that might be VERY fast, or VERY slow. (especially since it's from a store that charges 15% restocking fee on non-defective items, and they will argue "slow" is an opinion)
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
-angel* said:
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you use to improve browser performance?
For one I noticed there is: data2sd in untermensch's kernel.
klau1 said:
What do you use to improve browser performance?
For one I noticed there is: data2sd in untermensch's kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing more than unter's kernel and Chrome (is really fast for me )
-angel* said:
I only tried Stock on the GAlaxy Tab 2 10.1, but it was veeeeeeeeery, veeeeeeeeery laaggy for me... - so I took TF300T, but only problem were this f*ckin' I/O laags on stock, so I unlocked bootloader, used many custom ROMs and now I'm back on stock and untermensch's kernel - a choice of my dreams, working like a charm! (GPU OC as in kernel, plus CPU OC to max. 1.5 ghz) so only thing is if you need the Pad for gaming, you should use a custom kernel to get more performance...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the I/O issue fixed by a different ROM? If so, it means it's not a hardware issue and I can be hopeful for an official fix.
Also, do these custom ROMs significantly improve overall speed without the overclocking? I care deeply about the battery life!
Thanks!
Evan_ said:
Is the I/O issue fixed by a different ROM? If so, it means it's not a hardware issue and I can be hopeful for an official fix.
Also, do these custom ROMs significantly improve overall speed without the overclocking? I care deeply about the battery life!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my understanding, after reading many threads and discussions from the knowledgeable people here at xda and other forums, the custom ROMs provide a WORKAROUND not a FIX.
Basically, these units all have extremely slow internal Flash storage. So the solution (in custom ROMs) is to bypass the internal storage and put everything it can into the external SD. (Data2SD) Which basically makes the internal Flash useless.
Imagine buying a Laptop with a broken Harddrive so you are forced to use the CD-ROM drive instead.
Secondly, the custom ROMs loads the Internet Browser into the RAM (Browser2Ram), wasting a portion of the 1GB of RAM especially precious if you multitask.
This pretty much means you no longer have the flexibility of swapping out the SD Card whenever you want, since most programs will require it to run and have less free RAM for loading programs.
Of course to top it off, the price of admission is voiding the warranty since the bootloader must be unlocked before any custom ROMs can be loaded.
I was using Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 with 3g for over three months, now I have TF101G to be honest two of them. And both of transformers are much faster than SGT2. ASUS has a problem with SoD and RR ( no matter what soft or even kernel) , but I rather have reboot and 1 minute break once or twice a day than a so laggy system such as in SGT2. I don't know the problem of I/O in TF300 but I think that overall satisfaction would be still better on ASUS, now I'm thinking on TF300TG and I'm here because I want to be prepared for such problems. Are there any others problems with TF300TG I should knew?
Thanks
p3v4x
klau1 said:
From my understanding, after reading many threads and discussions from the knowledgeable people here at xda and other forums, the custom ROMs provide a WORKAROUND not a FIX.
Basically, these units all have extremely slow internal Flash storage. So the solution (in custom ROMs) is to bypass the internal storage and put everything it can into the external SD. (Data2SD) Which basically makes the internal Flash useless.
Imagine buying a Laptop with a broken Harddrive so you are forced to use the CD-ROM drive instead.
Secondly, the custom ROMs loads the Internet Browser into the RAM (Browser2Ram), wasting a portion of the 1GB of RAM especially precious if you multitask.
This pretty much means you no longer have the flexibility of swapping out the SD Card whenever you want, since most programs will require it to run and have less free RAM for loading programs.
Of course to top it off, the price of admission is voiding the warranty since the bootloader must be unlocked before any custom ROMs can be loaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really - on stock kernel I got ~1000 I/O in Quadrant, on untermensch based kernel (it is my own with some extras - will by posted when it will be ready) I got 7300 I/O without OC:fingers-crossed: without using data2sd.
I'd say that running a custom rom noticeably improves browser performance. I watched the video in the original post and did my own identical tests with my TF300t. Note that the video was posted in May, so there has been an OS update since then.
I loaded up both the stock browser and then Boat browser, and even used the same website (phonearena.com). My tablet didn't exhibit any of the choppyness shown in the video. Pinch zooming was smooth and fast, and never once skipped when zooming in and out. It basically looked just like the Galaxy Tab 2 in that video. loading on Boat browser was maybe a tad quicker, but zooming and scrolling was nearly the same.
My tf300 is unlocked, and I'm running cleanROM with a STOCK tf300 kernel in "balanced" mode.
I also have an ipad mini (which is basically ipad2 hardware), and did the same test on the same website just for kicks. Once the page completely loaded (and I think it took a bit longer than the asus tab), scrolling and zooming on the ipad mini is indeed crisper than the asus.
The screen movement/animations seem to follow your finger's position better than the android tabs I've used. I don't think it's actually smoother per se, but when you move your finger up and down quickly on android tabs, the animation is always a spit second behind where your finger is, even though it's smooth. On the ipad, the animation is noticeably closer to where your fingers are moving.
Delete
I have it installed too, and frankly speaking I do not see any real, angible improvement past placebo level. I'm sure someone will do some benchmarking (eventually) and prove me either wrong or right., but I will not be installing this on my next clean install. It doesn;t hurt, I guess, to try and see for yourself, but I just wanted to chime in with my exprience, which is drastically different from yours.
That said, I've gone from anyone but myself giving me homework to do, and may be too cynical. I'm a beta guy, though, and as such, I'd need tangible improvement. Again, I haven't seen any.
By the way: I tried running the app a few times in succession -- is it normal it keeps reporting to have 'trimmed' each and every time, although there's only seconds between the end of one run and the start of the next? I thought there shouldn't be new stuff to trim on that timescale... <?>
MartyHulskemper said:
I have it installed too, and frankly speaking I do not see any real, angible improvement past placebo level. I'm sure someone will do some benchmarking (eventually) and prove me either wrong or right., but I will not be installing this on my next clean install. It doesn;t hurt, I guess, to try and see for yourself, but I just wanted to chime in with my exprience, which is drastically different from yours.
That said, I've gone from anyone but myself giving me homework to do, and may be too cynical. I'm a beta guy, though, and as such, I'd need tangible improvement. Again, I haven't seen any.
By the way: I tried running the app a few times in succession -- is it normal it keeps reporting to have 'trimmed' each and every time, although there's only seconds between the end of one run and the start of the next? I thought there shouldn't be new stuff to trim on that timescale... <?>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you, see no improment, actually after browsing with stock browser on Yahoo finance for about 1 hour and my browser started acting up. It pause and sometime locked up then FC, I don't know if this caused by TRIM or something else, but again no improvement on my device.
buhohitr said:
I'm with you, see no improment, actually after browsing with stock browser on Yahoo finance for about 1 hour and my browser started acting up. It pause and sometime locked up then FC, I don't know if this caused by TRIM or something else, but again no improvement on my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had some apps lock up as well, but I have no idea if that's related to having this installed. The browser eems to be especially sensitive indeed, but I've had it on Redditmag+ as well (but that has been loading slow as **** anyway for the past two days).
Sent from a comfortable chair from the outer ring of Purgatory. The red guy asked me to say 'hi'.
MartyHulskemper said:
I have it installed too, and frankly speaking I do not see any real, angible improvement past placebo level. I'm sure someone will do some benchmarking (eventually) and prove me either wrong or right., but I will not be installing this on my next clean install. It doesn;t hurt, I guess, to try and see for yourself, but I just wanted to chime in with my exprience, which is drastically different from yours.
That said, I've gone from anyone but myself giving me homework to do, and may be too cynical. I'm a beta guy, though, and as such, I'd need tangible improvement. Again, I haven't seen any.
By the way: I tried running the app a few times in succession -- is it normal it keeps reporting to have 'trimmed' each and every time, although there's only seconds between the end of one run and the start of the next? I thought there shouldn't be new stuff to trim on that timescale... <?>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran 3 times in a row and it only trimmed anything the first time. I dont rely on subjective results. I time everything, every performance tweak i do involves a barrage of tests which are all timed. Since using this tweak my times are better overall. To be honest everything was alost too fast to time this time around lol. I havent benchmarked it as of yet. Everything happens a few ms faster than it did before. It took 1.5s to load my largest pdf before this tweak, now its at .8s. The first time i ran the app it trimmed over 10mB. I imagine the amount that gets trimmed impacts how much of an improvement you see.
Do we need a second thread for this?
I dont rely on subjective results. I time everything, every performance tweak i do involves a barrage of tests which are all timed. Since using this tweak my times are better overall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you mind posting your before and after times?
My initial androbench, as suggested in the fstrim faq, showed no change. I plan to run the bench again tonight, just to be sure.
fortunz said:
Do we need a second thread for this?
Would you mind posting your before and after times?
My initial androbench, as suggested in the fstrim faq, showed no change. I plan to run the bench again tonight, just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that you're going to see any gain, TRIM is probably just clean up all the junks (cache), and data etc.. which something similar to you wipe cache and dalvik cache, so initialy so will feel the O/S is smoother, but after a few days, it should slowdown to your normal speed. I did a super clean install of cleanrom, took some reading, like how fast to open a heavy images website, then install TRIM and the results are the same. If you test TRiM before you clear your memory and cache, you may have a smoother/snappier feeling. This is my take on this.
Sample Before/After Times
buhohitr said:
I doubt that you're going to see any gain, TRIM is probably just clean up all the junks (cache), and data etc.. which something similar to you wipe cache and dalvik cache, so initialy so will feel the O/S is smoother, but after a few days, it should slowdown to your normal speed. I did a super clean install of cleanrom, took some reading, like how fast to open a heavy images website, then install TRIM and the results are the same. If you test TRiM before you clear your memory and cache, you may have a smoother/snappier feeling. This is my take on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cleared cache/dalvick a day before trying this, i clear after any major changes. I was trying new stock kernel but noticed more lag so i switched back to OCed kernel and cleared it.
Sample Before Times:
Boot - 40.3s
Very large pdf - 1.3s
Youtube - 1.1s
theverge.com - 6.4s
xda.com - 1.4s
LOTR3 bluray - 2.1s
Playstore downloaded apps page - 1.5s
Sample After Times:
Boot - 36.7s
Large pdf - .8s
Youtube - .7s
theverge.com - 6s
xda.com - .9s
lotr3 bluray - 1.7s
playstore downloaded apps page - .9s
Havent tested everything bc that sample is enough for me at this point, especially considering ive noticed things are more responsive and smooth in general, especially multi touch gestures via GMD Gesture Control. Ive also noticed streaming flash videos are more responsive, which is huge for me, but entirely subjective, i dont time it. The university i go to has a course website that is flash based (bblearn, aka blackboard) and things are also more responsive on it as well.
These small improvements may seem trivial, however, every week or so I find a way to slightly drop my times, which adds up significantly over time. A drop of .2s is large enough for me to try anything, especially if it doesnt harm stability, and this app hasnt for me at this point. Call me crazy, i dont mind, im a performance nutter. I cant stand lag. DEATH TO LAG.
lucius.zen said:
I ran 3 times in a row and it only trimmed anything the first time. I dont rely on subjective results. I time everything, every performance tweak i do involves a barrage of tests which are all timed. Since using this tweak my times are better overall. To be honest everything was alost too fast to time this time around lol. I havent benchmarked it as of yet. Everything happens a few ms faster than it did before. It took 1.5s to load my largest pdf before this tweak, now its at .8s. The first time i ran the app it trimmed over 10mB. I imagine the amount that gets trimmed impacts how much of an improvement you see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we heard this before. You mention your objectiveness almost every other post. As I said, I'm a beta guy and as such I respect data, but ANY improvement whatsoever is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS when it ONLY shows up on your "objective measurements" and not in your or someone else's "subjective measurements". Benchmarks are NOT a good representation of real-life performance.
Your stance towards people that want tangible improvement comes over as arrogant to me. I'm sorry. My largest background in online presence in from several digital photography fora, where we called people that (overly or exclusively) rely on "objective measurements" "pixel peepers" -- judging something, whether that be a camera or a photograph, or a person in your private life or an employee or co-worker, solely or overly dependently on such criteria leads to a loss of quality of "je-ne-sais-quoi", its mojo, if I may call it that. What in the world does the "improvement" you measured ("W00t! 0.1 increase in floating point operation?! I'M GOING TO TAKE ON THE WOOOOORRRRRLLLL.." <trips over power line of vacuum cleaning machine> </self-deridement>) bring me when it doesn ot result in any tangible improvement in speed of smoothness.
Sent from a comfortable chair from the outer ring of Purgatory. The red guy asked me to say 'hi'.
---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------
You do not have actual screenshots, only typed statements?
Sent from a comfortable chair from the outer ring of Purgatory. The red guy asked me to say 'hi'.
buhohitr said:
I doubt that you're going to see any gain, TRIM is probably just clean up all the junks (cache), and data etc.. which something similar to you wipe cache and dalvik cache, so initialy so will feel the O/S is smoother, but after a few days, it should slowdown to your normal speed. I did a super clean install of cleanrom, took some reading, like how fast to open a heavy images website, then install TRIM and the results are the same. If you test TRiM before you clear your memory and cache, you may have a smoother/snappier feeling. This is my take on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, fstrim is more closer to defragging your hard drive, in a literal and figurative sense. What I'm saying here is yeah it's actually doing something (possibly) useful, but just like defragging, it's not always going to show a benefit unless your drive is really fragmented (which likely wouldn't even happen for a while, if at all). The nice thing about the ext formats is they don't exactly need this, but hey, if it works for somebody, then great!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
BossMafia2 said:
Actually, fstrim is more closer to defragging your hard drive, in a literal and figurative sense. What I'm saying here is yeah it's actually doing something (possibly) useful, but just like defragging, it's not always going to show a benefit unless your drive is really fragmented (which likely wouldn't even happen for a while, if at all). The nice thing about the ext formats is they don't exactly need this, but hey, if it works for somebody, then great!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on this!
There's no risk in trying, I grant you that. CROMI has been running a bit more stable without this fstrim ability than with it -- especially regarding apps force-closing. I guess everyone's mileage may vary.
Sooo. I have had this phone from T-Mobile for the past few weeks and have a few hot takes on it.
For starters I wanted to return it almost 2 days in after figuring out about the performance this device had. But was promised an update and 2 weeks later it was delivered.
So these hot takes are going to be after the update.
1. So far almost no stutter I've found has been fixed. Home stutter, app stutter all still here.
2. WE SHOULD HAVE TO OPTIMIZE SH*T ON A 1300 DEVICE. The fact that some answers you get here are "did you follow the optimaztion guide?" I shouldn't have to touch anything! Do you think the average consumer is gonna go through the hoops of 3 factory resets, a firmware flash, and praying to whatever God to get sub par performance?
3. The camera lag is rediculous.
I went to AEW (wrestling show) and couldn't even pull my camera up up fast enough to get any good shots!. And not to mention the shutter lag waiting for the image to capture! Also 4k60 recording in a timely manner? Laughable. I have never had this many issues with a Samsung device in the first few weeks as I've had with this one.
4. Signal drops consistently. (Doesn't really bother me because I use wifi calling)
5. Battery has gotten better since the update so no issues there.
6. Snapchat lag in camera ui.
7. Ram management is a joke. Even with ram plus.
8. Display is beautiful but dims to high heaven in gaming.
9. Abysmal update times compared to exynos.
10. Zoom is awesome.
I'm sure there are more but geesh.
Adding a photo for AEW fans lol
Try clearing the system cache.
All Samsung's need to be optimized and I'm not talking about enabling power management. It tends to do the opposite and will likely cause erratic behavior.
What's going on with the ram?
Wonder if scoped storage is helping to screw it up? It uses extra cpu cycles not sure if it impacts ram usage though. I deliberately avoided Android 11 and 12 because of it... no regrets.
blackhawk said:
Try clearing the system cache.
All Samsung's need to be optimized and I'm not talking about enabling power management. It tends to do the opposite and will likely cause erratic behavior.
What's going on with the ram?
Wonder if scoped storage is helping to screw it up? It uses extra cpu cycles not sure if it impacts ram usage though. I deliberately avoided Android 11 and 12 because of it... no regrets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just seems like only 4 apps at a time can stay in memory anything after that is reloaded.
joemossjr said:
Just seems like only 4 apps at a time can stay in memory anything after that is reloaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you change that in Developer options?
Standard limit... or did they change the "standard"?
Lol, I close out apps constantly especially Brave browser which always runs in the background otherwise.
joemossjr said:
Sooo. I have had this phone from T-Mobile for the past few weeks and have a few hot takes on it.
For starters I wanted to return it almost 2 days in after figuring out about the performance this device had. But was promised an update and 2 weeks later it was delivered.
So these hot takes are going to be after the update.
1. So far almost no stutter I've found has been fixed. Home stutter, app stutter all still here.
2. WE SHOULD HAVE TO OPTIMIZE SH*T ON A 1300 DEVICE. The fact that some answers you get here are "did you follow the optimaztion guide?" I shouldn't have to touch anything! Do you think the average consumer is gonna go through the hoops of 3 factory resets, a firmware flash, and praying to whatever God to get sub par performance?
3. The camera lag is rediculous.
I went to AEW (wrestling show) and couldn't even pull my camera up up fast enough to get any good shots!. And not to mention the shutter lag waiting for the image to capture! Also 4k60 recording in a timely manner? Laughable. I have never had this many issues with a Samsung device in the first few weeks as I've had with this one.
4. Signal drops consistently. (Doesn't really bother me because I use wifi calling)
5. Battery has gotten better since the update so no issues there.
6. Snapchat lag in camera ui.
7. Ram management is a joke. Even with ram plus.
8. Display is beautiful but dims to high heaven in gaming.
9. Abysmal update times compared to exynos.
10. Zoom is awesome.
I'm sure there are more but geesh.
Adding a photo for AEW fans lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exynos i think?
joemossjr said:
Sooo. I have had this phone from T-Mobile for the past few weeks and have a few hot takes on it.
For starters I wanted to return it almost 2 days in after figuring out about the performance this device had. But was promised an update and 2 weeks later it was delivered.
So these hot takes are going to be after the update.
1. So far almost no stutter I've found has been fixed. Home stutter, app stutter all still here.
2. WE SHOULD HAVE TO OPTIMIZE SH*T ON A 1300 DEVICE. The fact that some answers you get here are "did you follow the optimaztion guide?" I shouldn't have to touch anything! Do you think the average consumer is gonna go through the hoops of 3 factory resets, a firmware flash, and praying to whatever God to get sub par performance?
3. The camera lag is rediculous.
I went to AEW (wrestling show) and couldn't even pull my camera up up fast enough to get any good shots!. And not to mention the shutter lag waiting for the image to capture! Also 4k60 recording in a timely manner? Laughable. I have never had this many issues with a Samsung device in the first few weeks as I've had with this one.
4. Signal drops consistently. (Doesn't really bother me because I use wifi calling)
5. Battery has gotten better since the update so no issues there.
6. Snapchat lag in camera ui.
7. Ram management is a joke. Even with ram plus.
8. Display is beautiful but dims to high heaven in gaming.
9. Abysmal update times compared to exynos.
10. Zoom is awesome.
I'm sure there are more but geesh.
Adding a photo for AEW fans lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people need to accept that Android is essentially malware and was designed by a company to continuously extract as much information on you as possible behind the scenes. I would estimate at least 90% of all Android apps participate in this game to gain your info for profit. People wonder why phones are sluggish with all this activity happening in the background. This is the cost for all of us users to get an OS and application environment for free.
So the fact that each of us needs to fine tune, debloat, optimize, etc on any new phone to reign in the OS and apps to get acceptable performance is not something new. It really is a journey to research and get any phone working smoothly as each one of us has different use cases.
PS - my new S22 Ultra (SD/T-Mobile) is fast as lightning and I'm very happy with it.
This has been the worst new phone transition I've ever had. From trying to order to Samsung stretching the truth about the specs, to configuring every app from scratch. To multiple Factory Resets just to solve something buggy. To Google apps not performing the same.
I expected the major debloat and privacy settings. I did not expect T-Mo to install Facebook 4 times nor that it would take 6 phone calls to unlock a phone I paid for fully.
I am happy with the performance, screen, and the camera is beyond words. Hoping I am about done configuring and side loading. adb is your friend.
So far, the S22 Ultra feels like the Note20 Ultra with faster data speeds, better battery life, and slightly better camera. There is nothing earth shattering but overall seems a bit better. My only complaints are the weaker vibrate motor and lack of microSD card support.
I had a chance to test the S21 Ultra against the S22 Ultra and found the S21 Ultra to have slightly better speakers, stronger vibration motor, slightly better battery life and it's nice that it comes with up to 16 GB RAM. It's easier to hold as well, but the screen aspect ratio is less practical in many cases. It also gets warmer than the S22 Ultra.
For everything that improves with these iterative upgrades, there are a few steps back. If you're happy with your Note20 Ultra or S21 Ultra, I'd say there's no rush to upgrade unless you get an amazing deal.
joemossjr said:
Sooo. I have had this phone from T-Mobile for the past few weeks and have a few hot takes on it.
For starters I wanted to return it almost 2 days in after figuring out about the performance this device had. But was promised an update and 2 weeks later it was delivered.
So these hot takes are going to be after the update.
1. So far almost no stutter I've found has been fixed. Home stutter, app stutter all still here.
2. WE SHOULD HAVE TO OPTIMIZE SH*T ON A 1300 DEVICE. The fact that some answers you get here are "did you follow the optimaztion guide?" I shouldn't have to touch anything! Do you think the average consumer is gonna go through the hoops of 3 factory resets, a firmware flash, and praying to whatever God to get sub par performance?
3. The camera lag is rediculous.
I went to AEW (wrestling show) and couldn't even pull my camera up up fast enough to get any good shots!. And not to mention the shutter lag waiting for the image to capture! Also 4k60 recording in a timely manner? Laughable. I have never had this many issues with a Samsung device in the first few weeks as I've had with this one.
4. Signal drops consistently. (Doesn't really bother me because I use wifi calling)
5. Battery has gotten better since the update so no issues there.
6. Snapchat lag in camera ui.
7. Ram management is a joke. Even with ram plus.
8. Display is beautiful but dims to high heaven in gaming.
9. Abysmal update times compared to exynos.
10. Zoom is awesome.
I'm sure there are more but geesh.
Adding a photo for AEW fans lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not seeing any of the lag with shutter you talking about. With or without the flash and 4k 60fps video recording works fine too even in the dark. As for the Ram+ I got mine set at 8gb and I can open and run 12 apps without any problem whatsoever. Never had any problems with T-Mobile signal. Maybe you should try a fresh install? I havent really had any issues since day one other than battery life sucks. I didn't do a fresh install either. I just used Samsung Smartwatch to setup the phone exactly like my S20U which I traded for the Unlocked 512gb using a prepaid T-Mobile plan so no T-mobile software or bloat on here.
Rubby1025 said:
I think people need to accept that Android is essentially malware and was designed by a company to continuously extract as much information on you as possible behind the scenes. I would estimate at least 90% of all Android apps participate in this game to gain your info for profit. People wonder why phones are sluggish with all this activity happening in the background. This is the cost for all of us users to get an OS and application environment for free.
So the fact that each of us needs to fine tune, debloat, optimize, etc on any new phone to reign in the OS and apps to get acceptable performance is not something new. It really is a journey to research and get any phone working smoothly as each one of us has different use cases.
PS - my new S22 Ultra (SD/T-Mobile) is fast as lightning and I'm very happy with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. No. This ain't it cheif. People make the same argument for TVs (that if they were to make "dummy" TVs without Android it would be a $5K set... um $5K TVs exist and still have the spyware). The gaslighting by manufacturers is real.
Also 2~5K sets then did indeed exist, and for the sake of argument I'm not gonna talk inflation cause it really didn't change /that/ much aside from all mfr's getting greedy since covid. 2010's "smart" TVs didn't exist and the "smart" features were only on more expensive sets, as well as being more useless than today.
I paid for the hardware. But it's a "license to use" argument is the same bull that the pro-copyright NES crowd uses... sheesh
Paul_Deemer said:
Not seeing any of the lag with shutter you talking about. With or without the flash and 4k 60fps video recording works fine too even in the dark. As for the Ram+ I got mine set at 8gb and I can open and run 12 apps without any problem whatsoever. Never had any problems with T-Mobile signal. Maybe you should try a fresh install? I havent really had any issues since day one other than battery life sucks. I didn't do a fresh install either. I just used Samsung Smartwatch to setup the phone exactly like my S20U which I traded for the Unlocked 512gb using a prepaid T-Mobile plan so no T-mobile software or bloat on here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something is wrong if you're getting bad battery life. It's because you didn't do a fresh install, try factory resetting and it'll be way better.
S22 Ultra 5G US AT&T locked Snapdragon 512gb AVC8 flashed U1 firmware
Kris_b1104 said:
Something is wrong if you're getting bad battery life. It's because you didn't do a fresh install, try factory resetting and it'll be way better.
S22 Ultra 5G US AT&T locked Snapdragon 512gb AVC8 flashed U1 firmware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Factory reset guarantees nothing. Best to find the root cause to avoid a recurrence. Since each load is unique to the user, unique issues can and do evolve.
Use factory reset for: major upgrades, if you used SmartSwitch (don't make the same mistake twice), malware or if a buggy 3rd party app that altered hidden user settings you can't undo.
blackhawk said:
Factory reset guarantees nothing. Best to find the root cause to avoid a recurrence. Since each load is unique to the user, unique issues can and do evolve.
Use factory reset for: major upgrades, if you used SmartSwitch (don't make the same mistake twice), malware or if a buggy 3rd party app that altered hidden user settings you can't undo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a last resort but if has to be done then that's what you gotta do. It's the endgame. If it don't work after that your screwed.
Paul_Deemer said:
It's a last resort but if has to be done then that's what you gotta do. It's the endgame. If it don't work after that your screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you inadvertently add the app(s) or setting(s) that caused it, you just shot yourself in the foot, again.
Never use SmartSwitch if the first load went bad using it, do a clean load instead.
Tracking down the cause can be time consuming but it's a lesson learned and time saved in the future; a reload is very time consuming. I reserve it for primarily boot loops and persistent malware.
My current load has been saved from a factory reset a couple of times, still fast, stable and fulfilling its mission. It will be 2 yo this June.
Some those fixes seemed impossible at first but all were done within the confines of a stock Android without using adb edits, etc.
blackhawk said:
If you inadvertently add the app(s) or setting(s) that caused it, you just shot yourself in the foot, again.
Never use SmartSwitch if the first load went bad using it, do a clean load instead.
Tracking down the cause can be time consuming but it's a lesson learned and time saved in the future; a reload is very time consuming. I reserve it for primarily boot loops and persistent malware.
My current load has been saved from a factory reset a couple of times, still fast, stable and fulfilling its mission. It will be 2 yo this June.
Some those fixes seemed impossible at first but all were done within the confines of a stock Android without using adb edits, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I haven't had a single issue with mine even using smart switch but others heve. Guess I am just one of the lucky ones.
Paul_Deemer said:
Well I haven't had a single issue with mine even using smart switch but others heve. Guess I am just one of the lucky ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good thing
It's completely unpredictable. I've used SmartSwitch without issues. I don't trust it at all though... I remember Kies
It may have screwed up the load on my newest N10+, still troubleshooting it. It developed a... lag No big deal.
Almost all issues can be resolved by simply "playing" with it, Adroids wuv attention.