Hey,
I was just reading the port guide for creating a Touch image for our device. It doesn't seem like a massive task to get it running just a little time consuming for a fella with a little less knowledge than some of the other guys around here. The funny thing was that the port guide specifically mentions our device, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting. Anyone know if this is (a) possible & (b) worthwhile. Like I said, I'd give this a go but I'm amature at best and it could probably be done a lot quicker by another interested party.
Cheers
I've been asking the same thing...
I'd love to have Ubuntu running on my P3110!
:highfive:
If you watched google hangout on ubuntuonair, you can saw that one of the devs had already ported it for his wife`s P3110. He told there that it took him like 2-3 hrs with debugging. Also he told that he will provide it i think. I would love to see it for my P3100 but im not that skilled to try to port it.
Maybe once ubuntu for phones is released xda can tamper with it?
Luigi2011SM64 said:
Maybe once ubuntu for phones is released xda can tamper with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For sure, and isn't something too difficult, since ubuntu for phones is based on cyanogenmod.
I used it on my n7 and to be honest, its not impressive at all.
scottx . said:
I used it on my n7 and to be honest, its not impressive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? It looks so polished...
Better to stick with JB, then?
scottx . said:
I used it on my n7 and to be honest, its not impressive at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why??? What are the bad aspects???? I know its dev preview so it do not have all features working....what else????
Sent from my GT-P3100 using xda app-developers app
Don't expect to much, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes : The Ubuntu Touch Developer Preview is intended to be used for development and evaluation purposes only. It does not provide all of the features and services of a retail phone and is not intended to replace your current handset. This preview is the first release of a very new and unfinished version of Ubuntu and it will evolve quickly.
Found this while searching for ubuntu to our tab> http://server1.androidfilehost.com/?a=show&w=files&flid=3518 Looks interesting, the guy has a profile here on XDA but no word about ubuntu touch here :/
Related
I am looking for developers to develop a ROM for the HTC Shirft or the Samsung 7in Tablet from Sprint that dual boots Ice Cream Sandwhich and Webos.
Both OSes on the device would be sweat
Abyss19707 said:
I am looking for developers to develop a ROM for the HTC Shirft or the Samsung 7in Tablet from Sprint that dual boots Ice Cream Sandwhich and Webos.
Both OSes on the device would be sweat
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally i like Webos. But about 70% of others don't. most likely because of it's lack of customization and apps. It would be nice to see the dying OS ported to other devices to give it new life, but don't get your hopes up.
The devs simply don't seem to be too interested in porting Webos to other devices.
HazzaBlake said:
Personally i like Webos. But about 70% of others don't. most likely because of it's lack of customization and apps. It would be nice to see the dying OS ported to other devices to give it new life, but don't get your hopes up.
The devs simply don't seem to be too interested in porting Webos to other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it is sad for lack of support but Webos fans will support this. A person on one of the Webos forums is trying to wire the HTC Shift to work with the touchpad's charging dock, so there is still hope!
WebOS isn't open source yet, that's why nobody is porting it. -_-
It's not open source YET, but in a few month it will be and I'm hopeful that some devs will port it on other devices then.
The are two things I'm a bit worried about is webOS for other phones. Since I read a blog post which was all about the open source plan of HP I afraid that only the Touchpads 3.x webOS will be open sourced.
The other thing is the maybe missing feature of using gestures on phones. I mean webOS is all about gestures and I love to use my Pre3 with these gestures and the special gesture area, cause it's easy to use and superfast. But when ported on a phone, let's say a Galaxy S2, will there be gestures or does the user have to use the stupid buttons?
the enyo framework stuff was released today.
lovenokia said:
the enyo framework stuff was released today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you developers and porters?
Grave digging this thread but I'm curious as well. Love the WebOS. Would be highly interested if it was portable to Skyrocket. Yes, I would do that to my skyrocket.
I own a touchpad
T4L0n said:
Grave digging this thread but I'm curious as well. Love the WebOS. Would be highly interested if it was portable to Skyrocket. Yes, I would do that to my skyrocket.
I own a touchpad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would do that to my skyrocket too. It be nice to have gestures and simplicity WebOS. There's a mod out there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhpnlyBb6xI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I may try to port it to my skyrocket. It would be a fun project. Do you think there would be enough people to use it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
tpmullan said:
I may try to port it to my skyrocket. It would be a fun project. Do you think there would be enough people to use it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
njtroncoso said:
I would!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would too
My vote is to port it to a device with a massive user base, such as my SGS2, or an HD2. I still play with my Pre- and it sits on my coffee table. After reading The Verge post mortem I understand why it died, but it still is the best UX hands down. Imagine it running on blazing fast hardware, but I wonder how much is lost without a keyboard?
It seems that everyone has move on from webOS within the android community (well, almost everyone). I am one of the die hard fans of the OS and continue to use it daily. Of course, my needs for an OS are different from many , and I come from a solid Linux/Unix background. I have used palm products for years and followed webOS from the beginning. There are times when I come off like a fanboi for webOS but it has seemed to be an elegant solution for true multi tasking from the beginning. I hear most folks here talking of the untimely demise of webOS and cannot help but wonder if they have decided not to follow the development of Open WebOS. The community edition of webOS is due out in Sept and there are a number of major improvements coming with it. There is also the Phoenix project which may be building another tablet running the open source WebOS.
For those who have moved on from webOS and are satisfied with android, I bid you fair well. I will continue to work within the webOS community and look forward to future development. For those who are still on the fence, I would suggest a bit of patience as there are good things in the future of webOS and this fall really isn't that far off. Whichever OS you choose, remember that the touch pad that you have is still one of the few dual boot tablets on the market and (for those who were not early adopters) was purchased for a reduced price that would be hard to match by any other tablet manufacturer. The hardware is still pretty good compaired to most all dual core tablets and is still able to run cutting edge android builds. This alone would be a good argument for sticking with the touch pad but I stick with it for the things it continues to do well within webOS.
Sent from my Touchpad using Tapatalk 2
Hi
I want to install Android OS on Palm Pixi Plus.
Can any one help for the same.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda app-developers app
HazzaBlake said:
Personally i like Webos. But about 70% of others don't. most likely because of it's lack of customization and apps. It would be nice to see the dying OS ported to other devices to give it new life, but don't get your hopes up.
The devs simply don't seem to be too interested in porting Webos to other devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember when I had my pre you could place your phone in dev mode (root) by a simple dialer code reboot and itd be unlocked then you can install preware and from there install anything you want. I remember patches that added lots more functionality to the OS. Much simpler than android
donsh00tmesanta said:
I remember when I had my pre you could place your phone in dev mode (root) by a simple dialer code reboot and itd be unlocked then you can install preware and from there install anything you want. I remember patches that added lots more functionality to the OS. Much simpler than android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll buy the lack of apps argument, but customization? Kiddin' me? Installing Preware couldn't be any easier if they tried. Only Windows Mobile was easier than webOS.
I would defiantly try it on my skyrocket.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
Ideally webOS that could run Android apps would be great. The UX on webOS is second only to Windows Phone IMO, but webOS needs the app power of Android.
I had a Pre+ for a weekend but after the third time swapping it out because of hardware problems, I gave up on it. The hardware was always the problem. They should have had HTC manufacture it like the Treos.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I'd run it on my X8 I like the look of WebOS and nearly bought a PalmPre when they were released!
It would be great to see a revival of the software
Sent from my X8 using xda app-developers app
today i found that ubuntu will bring out a version for android.
This thread is for discuss this:
here is the link http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/v/AyeFcldavTk
I wonder if we could tweak it somehow to work with legacy devices too .
drive2droad said:
I wonder if we could tweak it somehow to work with legacy devices too .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where there's a chef, there's a way
MoPhoACTV Initiative
I don't see the point of this. It's no different than the Atrix thing.
Sent from my SGH-I897
MikeyMike01 said:
I don't see the point of this. It's no different than the Atrix thing.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that it's actually a fully-functional OS. Anything that you can do on Ubuntu, you will now be able to do on your phone. This gets us much closer to having a truly pocket-sized computing device.
Pretty cool. Only issue I had was it was incompatible with some programs and some drivers I needed were funky or I would have stayed on Ubuntu instead of jumping back to win 7. Keep up the good work!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Canonical says the "code is available for end users" though it will require quite some expertise to pull it off. I assume the biggest challenge is getting X to work natively with the phone, but if they can do it, and the code is available, I'm sure it's only a matter of time until someone on this forum gets it working, and boy am I excited! I want this now!
I have yet to see anyone with the code though.
MikeyMike01 said:
I don't see the point of this. It's no different than the Atrix thing.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Atrix, you'll need their Motorola's "Web top" to run it, but with this, u just need only a TV with HDMI supported to turn your TV to a desktop PC, but still there is some limited though.
According to their site
"so it is easy to integrate into current production roadmaps. The hardware requirements are straightforward and, with a broad range of ARM and x86 hardware supported, it can realistically be added to phones already in development."
It's clearly there is something to do during development process before launching the phone. but I still hope someone can find a way to put this on previous devices too.
codesplice said:
Except that it's actually a fully-functional OS. Anything that you can do on Ubuntu, you will now be able to do on your phone. This gets us much closer to having a truly pocket-sized computing device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but given that it's a phone how much can you really do?
beam408 said:
With Atrix, you'll need their Motorola's "Web top" to run it, but with this, u just need only a TV with HDMI supported to turn your TV to a desktop PC, but still there is some limited though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a fair point. I was looking at the software only.
Sent from my SGH-I897
MikeyMike01 said:
Yes, but given that it's a phone how much can you really do?
That's a fair point. I was looking at the software only.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen Ubuntu (and its derivatives) run just fine on a computer with a 1.2GHz dual-core processor and 512MB of RAM. It will run OpenOffice just fine, Thunderbird just fine, Chrome just fine, and synaptic (package manager) just fine. No, you won't have all the processing power of a real desktop system but it will be plenty for doing light work (word processing, email, web browsing, maybe light photo editing in GIMP). It will be far more useful than Motorola's little webtop experiment.
And it won't just be a larger display for a mobile OS - it will be a fully functional desktop Linux OS, and completely hacker friendly. This is an exciting prospect!
I want this right now, but I don't have a dual core phone :/ Hopefully by the time my upgrade comes around at the beginning of next year, this will be the norm!
Kick ascii!
Wow.. cool!
So...
How's this thing going?
Thought i'd refresh this thread.
1. I have a Galaxy S2 and ran Ubuntu 12.04 on it, using "Complete Linux Installer" (Google Play). The official XDA thread is called "Linux-on-Android [...]" , It's a chroot, VNC connection. I made a video demo from boot till shutdown: www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSId7rzybCk
2. Does anyone know of some working native X for this, for any device at all?
3. There's this concept phone "Nexphone" running "Ubuntu for Android". They're trying to make a prototype with money from Indiegogo: www.indiegogo.com/nexphone but i guess the crowd won't pay them 1 mil. dollars to pull it off.
Ubuntu will pull this off. I'm just not sure how successful it will be.
In any event, I'll be installing it as I run Ubuntu systems anyway.
nice concept
The concept is great and useful in many ways. Maybe we will see an available version of this sometime.
crancker said:
The concept is great and useful in many ways. Maybe we will see an available version of this sometime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eventually yes. Phones are getting more powerful too. Quadcores are just starting to come out now.
Ubuntu Edge
Just making sure that everybody's heard, that the bird is the word !
Here's Ubuntu Edge, a Phoneputer, which features Android, Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu for Android!
Link to Indiegogo campaign: http://igg.me/at/ubuntuedge/x/4047467
Hey guys so I was reading around on xda and found a thread for the hd7 saying that it would be possible because in windows phone it now supports multi core processors and a lot of stuff that android phones have what do you guys think of this
Here's the original post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1769456
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Doesn't look like it's gonna happen man. The HD7 is a Windows 7 Phone which makes porting an OS like Win 8 somewhat simple. Getting Windows 8 on an Android device is going to take a deep knowledge of both systems and a lot of time. Hell, it might even be impossible, though on XDA I don't know if that word exists.
k4p741nkrunch said:
Doesn't look like it's gonna happen man. The HD7 is a Windows 7 Phone which makes porting an OS like Win 8 somewhat simple. Getting Windows 8 on an Android device is going to take a deep knowledge of both systems and a lot of time. Hell, it might even be impossible, though on XDA I don't know if that word exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2
HD7 is a Windows phone.
NJGSII said:
x2
HD7 is a Windows phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I know but even though what's the thing stopping like there isn't any hardware things that's stopping us right its just that it takes a huge amount of time and knowledge
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
im pretty sure it would be illegal be cause of licensing concerns not that some of the brillant minded people couldnt do, I just think that that aspect would scare most people off
Windows phone has a set of hardware guidelines it has to meet. Only supports up to 512mb ram, 480x800 res, 1.5 single core cpu. Or at least that's what is was when I had mine. It world be really rough.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
kleeman7 said:
Windows phone has a set of hardware guidelines it has to meet. Only supports up to 512mb ram, 480x800 res, 1.5 single core cpu. Or at least that's what is was when I had mine. It world be really rough.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah the reason i thjink its now possible is that on windows phone 8 all those guidelines are gone
nman123 said:
Yeah I know but even though what's the thing stopping like there isn't any hardware things that's stopping us right its just that it takes a huge amount of time and knowledge
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Legality and Drivers would probably be a good starting place of why it wouldnt be worth doing. Why would ANYONE waste their time doing something like this? Might as well just spend the money on a Win 8 Device. It would be like porting over IOS. Just no point.
nman123 said:
Yeah I know but even though what's the thing stopping like there isn't any hardware things that's stopping us right its just that it takes a huge amount of time and knowledge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are huge hardware issues. There are no drivers to make our hardware work with WP8, and would have to be made from scratch.
Plus, WP is closed source. So that greatly complicates the work needed to port it over. May also bring up some legal and licensing issues, as already mentioned.
The huge amount of effort and time is exactly what prevents WP OS being ported to any Android device. This questions gets asks for just about any Android device "can we port WP". Technically anything is "possible". But the huge amount of work means that nobody is going to be willing to port it over. Why go through all that work? It would be much easier to just buy a Windows Phone.
redpoint73 said:
There are huge hardware issues. There are no drivers to make our hardware work with WP8, and would have to be made from scratch.
Plus, WP is closed source. So that greatly complicates the work needed to port it over. May also bring up some legal and licensing issues, as already mentioned.
The huge amount of effort and time is exactly what prevents WP OS being ported to any Android device. This questions gets asks for just about any Android device "can we port WP". Technically anything is "possible". But the huge amount of work means that nobody is going to be willing to port it over. Why go through all that work? It would be much easier to just buy a Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or use one if the launchers in the play store that can give you the look and feel of wp.
Sent from my HTC Vivid
In addition to the other hardware requirements, WP also requires a dedicated hardware camera button. I don't see WP coming to the One X.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"~Rush
Sent from my HTC One X, using XDA Premium.
ZeroRilix said:
Or use one if the launchers in the play store that can give you the look and feel of wp.
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
launcher will give the look not the feel.
wp is way more fluid and animated than andorid.
it's just the way wp works its awesome.
PeartFan40 said:
In addition to the other hardware requirements, WP also requires a dedicated hardware camera button. I don't see WP coming to the One X.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"~Rush
Sent from my HTC One X, using XDA Premium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing you can't emulate in a kernel ^^
sorry for the necro^^
__________________________________________________
one x running 4.4 cm11
yossi2010 said:
launcher will give the look not the feel.
wp is way more fluid and animated than andorid.
it's just the way wp works its awesome.
nothing you can't emulate in a kernel ^^
sorry for the necro^^
__________________________________________________
one x running 4.4 cm11
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise you're replying to posts that are over two years old?
Transmitted via Bacon
Has anyone seen or read about the ubuntu os that will be releasing for the nexus? I wonder if it could be ported to the S3 or have some android/ubuntu hybrid?
Either way I think this will shake some things up a bit.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
It is not coming out for the nexus Canonical just used the phone to demo its OS. They are planning to release the source code for devs to play with. They are also planing To sale ubuntu smartphones soon.
ricecake2000 said:
Has anyone seen or read about the ubuntu os that will be releasing for the nexus? I wonder if it could be ported to the S3 or have some android/ubuntu hybrid?
Either way I think this will shake some things up a bit.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there will be a need to port the device as it seems like it will able to run on all devices. I wouldn't call Ubuntu for android smartphones an OS until they officially release it as it seems more like something that runs along side android and allows the user to use the docked phone as a PC. Even on the Ubuntu website they state
Newer multi-core processors are up to the job, and Ubuntu is the killer app for that hot hardware. It’s the must-have feature for late-2012 high-end Android phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even on their website they refer to whatever they are releasing as an app. It appears that Ubuntu for our phones will be more like a multi-tool with the ability to do a TON of stuff, like some sort of super app.
It would be nice to be able to finally compile kernels on the device itself and ditch the need for a 'real' computer altogether.
Well super app or not I think it will be cool to run at least for a few days.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Definitely looks impressive! Hope to be able to test it out soon!
In interviews they made it clear it is far from ready with a lot of core functionality still missing. Also if you watch the videos of hands-on it is pretty slow and lags.
frankspin said:
In interviews they made it clear it is far from ready with a lot of core functionality still missing. Also if you watch the videos of hands-on it is pretty slow and lags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. It is far from release, and I doubt we will ever see it on an S3. I wouldn't even expect to see an official device until next year.
I agree with OaklandZoo. Ubuntu on a phone sounds great but with the first phones not coming out until next year I don't think it will ever make it to the S3.
So now we have to decide what will be our daily drive Ubuntu for Phones or our Android OS..?
Already here we have the first beta ports of Ubuntu for Phones for our Nexus S..
Tell me what you think..
Ubuntu as soon as it becomes stable and smooth! But only the full version of course, the demo is nice for a...... demo..... I guess!!
mikekir97 said:
So now we have to decide what will be our daily drive Ubuntu for Phones or our Android OS..?
Already here we have the first beta ports of Ubuntu for Phones for our Nexus S..
Tell me what you think..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is only a developer preview Won't able to daily use.
btw, when canonical realise the full version and the team port it for us, i will change our green friend as for sure!
Sensitivity said:
This is only a developer preview Won't able to daily use.
btw, when canonical realise the full version and the team port it for us, i will change our green friend as for sure!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that Ubuntu for phones is on development on the Nexus S.. that's why I made the post in the first place to find out the obvious.... ;p lol.. everyone will run Ubuntu when the Full release is out..
Ubuntu R' Us
I concur. If and when Ubuntu Mobile becomes stable enough, I would also make the migration to Ubuntu. Android is so last year's OS
I prefer android
Don't see why I would run a computer OS with a touch interface on top on my mobile device. I'd rather use an OS made for mobile from the start...
Honestly don't really give a dime about running computer programs on my phone.
When you don't have a notebook and you're on vacation or so you could use the hotel TV and your phone as a full computer. Makes sense to me..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
MarcPlusTwo said:
When you don't have a notebook and you're on vacation or so you could use the hotel TV and your phone as a full computer. Makes sense to me..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't seem like it would be the most common thing to happen to the most of us, though.
The Nexus S is already under-powered enough I can't see it lasting very much longer, even less so running a computer OS with any sort of decent fluidity/usability.
Its more than that,its your phone to a whole different level! Come on guys you got to agree,its going to change things in industry once people relize capabilities. And you have the best of both android and Linux!
Sent from my m865 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
donthateme702 said:
Its more than that,its your phone to a whole different level! Come on guys you got to agree,its going to change things in industry once people relize capabilities. And you have the best of both android and Linux!
Sent from my m865 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, whatever, but not on this phone. It's not going to revolutionize anything on a phone you can't connect to a monitor/TV and that is already having difficulties running Jellybean...
donthateme702 said:
Its more than that,its your phone to a whole different level! Come on guys you got to agree,its going to change things in industry once people relize capabilities. And you have the best of both android and Linux!
Sent from my m865 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 :good:
polobunny said:
Sure, whatever, but not on this phone. It's not going to revolutionize anything on a phone you can't connect to a monitor/TV and that is already having difficulties running Jellybean...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first it's not on top of android it uses the blob to migrate the drivers and that is all second you do know that the cpu in the nexus s is more powerful than people thing???
i can run linux with emulation with no lag imagine it native
spider623 said:
first it's not on top of android it uses the blob to migrate the drivers and that is all second you do know that the cpu in the nexus s is more powerful than people thing???
i can run linux with emulation with no lag imagine it native
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said it was on top? You have reading comprehension issues. Jellybean already runs roughly enough on the Nexus S. There's no difference between a Linux distro and Android you know, except the later is greatly optimized to run on phones/tablets.
Besides, other than for Android, please point me to an example where Linux has even a remotely great market share with end users. Surprise, it doesn't! Even with Ubuntu being the latest fad for people wanting to pickup on Linux, it's still a tiny shard in the ocean of Windows and Mac OSX.
when it receives Android apps support, the first thing i would do is to get rid of Android and flash in Ubuntu. Until then, I would say android is my choice.
polobunny said:
Who said it was on top? You have reading comprehension issues. Jellybean already runs roughly enough on the Nexus S. There's no difference between a Linux distro and Android you know, except the later is greatly optimized to run on phones/tablets.
Besides, other than for Android, please point me to an example where Linux has even a remotely great market share with end users. Surprise, it doesn't! Even with Ubuntu being the latest fad for people wanting to pickup on Linux, it's still a tiny shard in the ocean of Windows and Mac OSX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares if it's still a tiny shard, people want option and it's nice that we have distro's like Ubuntu and FirefoxOS that you can install on Android smartphones. I think the majority of people willing to try this out want something different for a change.. Maybe people don't care about mainstream operating systems anymore, maybe they want something less-mainstream that stands out from the crowd.