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Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
Consumer are on the loosing end ;(
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support
Android users unite, demand upgrades
The state of Android software support is ridiculous, and some Android users have their heads in the sand and make excuses for the problem.
As a group we should demand software updates. 6 months ago Google and their partners in the open handset alliance pledged to address the issue of software updates and nothing has come of this. I still own a Droid Charge only officially running an Android version that came out in 2009.
What has Samsung done since releasing my Charge? Released the Stratosphere, as well as numerous other devices across other carriers.
If you think the average consumer does not care that their phone isn't running the latest software, then you may be correct. But, the average consumer sure as heck cares that his phone does not have the features of other competing companies. Also, stability is another issue, some phones are left running unstable software.
Do not ignore this problem. Android will lose the war if this continues. If this is being compared to the PC market, we are in 1989, Android could be any number of platforms that doesn't make it.
If you care about the platform, demand more of the platform.
Danwsim said:
The state of Android software support is ridiculous, and some Android users have their heads in the sand and make excuses for the problem.
As a group we should demand software updates. 6 months ago Google and their partners in the open handset alliance pledged to address the issue of software updates and nothing has come of this. I still own a Droid Charge only officially running an Android version that came out in 2009.
What has Samsung done since releasing my Charge? Released the Stratosphere, as well as numerous other devices across other carriers.
If you think the average consumer does not care that their phone isn't running the latest software, then you may be correct. But, the average consumer sure as heck cares that his phone does not have the features of other competing companies. Also, stability is another issue, some phones are left running unstable software.
Do not ignore this problem. Android will lose the war if this continues. If this is being compared to the PC market, we are in 1989, Android could be any number of platforms that doesn't make it.
If you care about the platform, demand more of the platform.
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Yeah this is true, I'd definitely have to agree. Don't get me wrong, I love Android, but there are some things I wish they would fix. Like the caller waiting feature, it should be updated to be more user friendly. Why should you have to hang up and wait for the automatic call back? They need to rebuild that part of the ui where you can.
Very interesting article. Very true also. It is a sad and troubling issue unfortunately for us. Software support and updates seem to be getting worse and worse for us Android users.
Good thing i got my nexus handset...kind of helps as at least i know google will keep rolling out the updates for at least 18 to 24 months.
The problem is with the big phone manufactures...they skin android too deep and take too long to clear up their mess in order to update the builds. Also they just want us to buy new phones every few months it seems. I intend to see my nexus s contract through to the remaining 12 months for sure. Ice Cream Sandwich looks delicious by the way!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
All they do is release a new model so they force us to buy new device, i might go back to iPhone I am really on the edge.
Well LG just impressed my by updating my moms LG Shine Pus ( think GSM Ally) from 2.1 to 2.3 and i mean the only thing that phone is lacking in is processor. 480x800 screen, 512 ram and a wait for it 600mhz processor. And it is a phone which doesn't require a data plan so my mom only pays like $20 a month for it
Dark lord me said:
Well LG just impressed my by updating my moms LG Shine Pus ( think GSM Ally) from 2.1 to 2.3 and i mean the only thing that phone is lacking in is processor. 480x800 screen, 512 ram and a wait for it 600mhz processor. And it is a phone which doesn't require a data plan so my mom only pays like $20 a month for it
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If you have no data plan, that means she just use the phone to call and text, she does not need update, this is sad for the smartphone users with data
spirikitik said:
If you have no data plan, that means she just use the phone to call and text, she does not need update, this is sad for the smartphone users with data
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Yeah well when we were going to get the phone it was a cheap slider dumb phone and we walked out with one of those and with froyo it brought speed increments which help on the phone and i mean my moms not the kind who even uses data just games and such
Totally agree. Fragmentation is a major issue and a lot of people don't realize that if the issues aren't griped about then they have no reason to fix them.
z33dev33l said:
Totally agree. Fragmentation is a major issue and a lot of people don't realize that if the issues aren't griped about then they have no reason to fix them.
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Yes a lot of android user know that, they just don't want to admit that sometime they visit android market and download an app and found out the app crashes and wouldn't not work on their device, and still they don't want to say it, because they always want android to win vs apple, rim and wp7, the funny thing is they are not even part of the company, and will manufacturers don't update their device but can release new devices with an updated android OS, so people with money on their hand sell their phone and buy new android device just to update, they want android to win but they do not realize that android is sucking the life out of their pocket.
ICS is too late for it, but I hope J(ellybean) functions more like a launcher and its theme. Just mass update the background OS for all phones (whether through OTA or through website), and let manufacturer/telcom update their skin independently, so that consumers don't have to wait for the (unreliable) promise from manufacturer/telcom.
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
spirikitik said:
Yes a lot of android user know that, they just don't want to admit that sometime they visit android market and download an app and found out the app crashes and wouldn't not work on their device, and still they don't want to say it, because they always want android to win vs apple, rim and wp7, the funny thing is they are not even part of the company, and will manufacturers don't update their device but can release new devices with an updated android OS, so people with money on their hand sell their phone and buy new android device just to update, they want android to win but they do not realize that android is sucking the life out of their pocket.
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Are we guaranteed by policy that the phones need to be updated? If anyone can check the sales agreement, is it mentioned anything about the future software update?
I have not checked, but I think there is no such obligation from manufacturer. So, in essence they are not breaking the law. We buy a phone on what it has presently, not speculating about future enhancements.
It would be great to have manufacturers give more attention to this update issue. But I doubt anyone could hold them accountable.
It's also obvious that if any of these get updated, it would be only the premier ones, not the budget models.
zeekiz said:
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
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You just can handle the truth jerk butt
spirikitik said:
You just can handle the truth jerk butt
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Android vs iSO is exactly the same as pc vs console, some people enjoy having freedom on their devices, and constantly upgrade, some people want something like a console, nothing ground breaking but has a bit better stability but no flexibility. (I'm assuming your an Apple fan boy due to the lack of depth to your argument, also perceivable intelligence).
zeekiz said:
Android vs iSO is exactly the same as pc vs console, some people enjoy having freedom on their devices, and constantly upgrade, some people want something like a console, nothing ground breaking but has a bit better stability but no flexibility. (I'm assuming your an Apple fan boy due to the lack of depth to your argument, also perceivable intelligence).
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You got me wrong, it is just this fact hurt your ego about the stat of updates and you see it and still don't believe it, you are the android fanboy and for that makes you blind, and your intelligence, stay stagnant like a swamp.
zeekiz said:
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
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this is the attitude of a fanboy. "Oh, you don't like my OS? You must be a wp7/iOS fanboy."
Gotta say, I'm a fanboy for no OS and have them all but as far as hardware goes, I'm slowly becoming a Nokia fanboy
Lol z33 you really are funny. And quite the fibber.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
spirikitik said:
All they do is release a new model so they force us to buy new device, i might go back to iPhone I am really on the edge.
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So do you have iOS5 installed on your iphone, iphone 3G?
Which app is exclusive to gingerbread?
I think you should go back to iphone. It looks like you've made up your mind.
As for updates, US carrier versions tend to be slower and no surprises there with all the bloatware and restrictions they have to build into the firmware
Also there are ton of posts on xda where users with 2.3.3/2.3.4 devices complain about not receiving 2.3.5 updates and same goes for 3.0/3.1 users not receiving 3.2 update without knowing what that new revision brings to the table
As corps begin to adopt smartphones, the first thing a CIO will ask, "What's the Product Life Cycle?"
3GS gets iOS5 but the Nexus One won't get ICS!? Lowe's just ordered 42,000 iPhones, I would have too. Pull your head out Google!!! It's not just the kids who want updates but the grown ups too!
Sent from my LG-P509
Interesting article, in my opinion I think it's true.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397729,00.asp
Wow, that's an excellent article, and it seems to be very true.
Haha I sensed the sarcasm! Ofcourse it's true, what I meant was I should have known this about the vendors and their "promises".
I think that the updates are currently the most problematic thing in Android eco-system. Carriers just don't give a sh*** - have an old phone, come to us and buy one, have a long contract, well that's too bad. I just wish smartphone vendors would release all the drivers for their devices and let the community handle all the updates.
paszczi said:
I think that the updates are currently the most problematic thing in Android eco-system. Carriers just don't give a sh*** - have an old phone, come to us and buy one, have a long contract, well that's too bad. I just wish smartphone vendors would release all the drivers for their devices and let the community handle all the updates.
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Well it is not just the phone manufacturer as they would need to get the OK from others as well. They don't use their own hardware for things like radio, bt, screen ect.
Does this really surprise anyone? The carriers and the manufacturers both make money from abandoning old phones and selling new ones. The only way that Android is going to have a consistant upgrade schedule is if someone who doesn't profit (Google?) makes the ground rules. If the manufacturers want to licence it then they need to follow the rules. If they use the AOSP code then they have to release code under its terms.
people need to call out google and push them to be competent
I'm at the point where I'm just completely Nexus, I dont even want to get near another OEM and their bloat, custom frameworks, etc... Go the way of the Nexus. Its a great thing to do.
jim93 said:
people need to call out google and push them to be competent
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And do what? They have no control over it once they sign the contract and if they don't carriers don't carry the phone. Then it goes the way of the Nexus 1.
Oh come on, things are way better now than ever. Have you seen the near endless list of devices getting ICS?
I still remember when phones never even got an update in their lifetime.
But you can always buy smart and get the updates from the hard core XDA developers who never seem to fail to deliver.
Lars
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
wire103 said:
Oh come on, things are way better now than ever. Have you seen the near endless list of devices getting ICS?
I still remember when phones never even got an update in their lifetime.
But you can always buy smart and get the updates from the hard core XDA developers who never seem to fail to deliver.
Lars
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Just because the OEM says it will be releasing it at least in the US it is still the carriers call. Take a look at the inspire. HTC released a new buld for the device but ATT refuses to release one for the inspire
Nexus phones seem to be the way to go.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
zelendel said:
Just because the OEM says it will be releasing it at least in the US it is still the carriers call. Take a look at the inspire. HTC released a new buld for the device but ATT refuses to release one for the inspire
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Can't Americans download open versions like europe?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
mistermentality said:
Can't Americans download open versions like europe?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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No the The US versions have some minor diffs that the Euro versions do not. We dont get updates from the OEMs. Carriers control it all. ITs either carrier or custom rom ported for our devices
My phone never got Froyo over the air. It didn't even get a 2.2.1 update. As for GB we had to port it from the i9000 (i have a vibrant).Same with ICS. It really sucks, because batterylife is not as great as it could be. Android will probably never be released to all devices at once and my understanding is that the "GOOGLE" line of phones gets full support for atleast 2 years.
As for now, who wants upgrades should buy Google Nexus phones (not Motorola).
I take my hat off to Sony, they are excellent (but not perfect because of Xperia Play).
This has always puzzled me since I switched over to Android 5 months ago. I noticed that most carriers don't push the latest update for months to come, if ever in some cases. For example, my SGS4 ATT hasn't been officially updated to 4.3 yet, but 4.4 is being released soon. Its not like as soon as 4.4 is released, everyone can update to it, like iOS. My question is, why is this? What's the point in Android releasing another major update when the majority of non-rooted phones aren't even running their latest update?
Sent from my SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
It's not googles fault the oems can't keep up. Google even gave them the tools they needed to port software to newer versions of Android. If google took longer to release, that's longer oems would take
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4
Google
I think a big part of it is that Google knows that the people with the know-how will go get 4.4 themselves and start testing/coming up with fixes for bugs and such. Yes, we all do it for advanced features/rooting, but at the same time Google can go look at bug fixes online just like the rest of us can
bubblebuddyi said:
This has always puzzled me since I switched over to Android 5 months ago. I noticed that most carriers don't push the latest update for months to come, if ever in some cases. For example, my SGS4 ATT hasn't been officially updated to 4.3 yet, but 4.4 is being released soon. Its not like as soon as 4.4 is released, everyone can update to it, like iOS. My question is, why is this? What's the point in Android releasing another major update when the majority of non-rooted phones aren't even running their latest update?
Sent from my SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
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Simple, most updates are minor and bit by bit remove the "Open" source features of AOSP.
Next android version will include the ability to have custom Messenger app that can recieve SMS. Google will probably replace it with a propietary version that integrates with g+ and other services and end up not support AOSP version. Its only natural because propietary software earns alot more money and google can earn money both from ads and its services.
Yes, android as we know it is being left to die by google.
Also, the thing others said here are correct, OEMs do not have the interest to update or support a device for more than one year, thats their cycle. This adds to android version fragmentation.
Its the same reason there are over 30% of devices still using gingerbread 2.3
Android devices are usually advertised heavily, distributed, supported for 1 year, and abandoned. This goes mostly for midrange devices. Flagships might get special treatment-
Low end devices are never updated to rarely if never updated to new versions. Of course, this policy might differ based on OEM.
LG uisually releases 1 update and thats it. Samsung does 2-3 updates for higher end devices. Dunno about HTC or Sony, but they should be the same.
it may be availble for all device
as far as i know google is planing to bring all android phones under one roof with same os.. they had worked on pusing updates through playstore .. so we may see soon that we are getting our os upgrades directly from playstore
Pipo
Keep an close eye on official release& waiting!
Thank goodness for developers who take the updates and then make far better roms than the carriers could ever do.. These updates are more for the artists that make the art that is the rom, or am I wrong?
M919 running Virgin GP ed. ROM
I think for the moment the answer is you simply don't need 4.4.
If you have 4.1 and up your phone will support all the new apps coming with 4.4, in fact they're already available...
We won't see universal Play Store upgrading for the foreseeable future, because remember, Google wouldn't want the hassle of handling hardware support for every single phone out there, they have enough on their plate with their Nexus line.
The road taken, if you will, probably is for the best, where Google develop their services independently of the platform as much as possible.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I like my Note Pro 12.2 but it seems to me that Samsung has given up on this device? Any thoughts?
What makes you believe that?
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
No updates or anything new about this device. Just my perception...real or otherwise.
dodo99x said:
What makes you believe that?
Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
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First off it has always been my experience that samsung tablets get fewer updates than their phones do, and that it's worse with US carrier variants of a Samsung tablet.
With Google updating their core applications via play store updates these days the frequency of device updates doesn't concern me much. This tablet is stable and quick so I'm satisfied with what I have for now. I'm looking forward to an update to touchwiz but that won't likely happen until well after Android L comes out.
I don't know if this is obvious to everyone but many manufacturers tie significant software updates to product releases to give the new products some thunder. I wouldn't expect an update to the rest of the Note line until the Note 4 is out on the street. The same thing happened to the Note 10.1 2014 which saw a stall in updates while this tablet was being released and got its KitKat update after the Note Pro hit the streets.
This thing already ships with 4.4.2. There is no newer Android version. And there is no point in an update if there is nothing to add and nothing severe to fix. It's that simple.
4.4.3 won't come out until the Note 4 ships with it. After that, it's the S5 first, then the Note 3 and S4, and then the rest. And unless 4.4.3 adds something special for tablets, don't expect it to be rolled out to any tablet immediately.
Samsung's 4.4.2 is a pretty mature build, no big updates are needed. We probably won't see an update till Android L (5.0?) rolls out. And yes all Exynos 5420 devices will get upgraded. My suggestion is to stop worrying about updates and just enjoy your device.
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dodo99x said:
And yes all Exynos 5420 devices will get upgraded.
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I'd never use the words all or definitely in anything having to do with Samsung. The N10.1-14, Pro's, and S's are all using near identical h/w yet all are running different versions of TW with different feature sets and varying versions of Samsung's s/w (EG: My Files, S Note, etc.) Lately, updates seem to be focused on the OS rather than bringing newer or more current functionality to older devices. The Note II didn't get any of the Note 3's enhancements, the N10.1 any of the N10.1-14's, and the N3 didn't get any of the SGS5's; even though they are all running 4.4.2. Hell, Samsung's rolling the updates they do provide out at a snail's pace with the N10.1 and N10.1-14's 4.4.2 update still missing from many markets even though the initial release was months ago.
The N12 was most likely always intended to be a niche device. All the market analysis says 8-9" tablets are now the sweet spot going forward with sales slowing down considerably across all sized tablets based on phablets being bought (especially in Asia) as alternatives. Samsung's tablet strategy over the past year has been bizarre. The N10.1-14 was announced and shipped in November of last year without nary a leak of its impending arrival. Then the Pro's were announced with much fanfare and the less than four month old N10.1-14 never mentioned again by Samsung. Then four months after that the S' orphaned the Pro's.
So it doesn't seem Samsung's tablet sales strategy is that solid and now between Wi-Fi, 3G, and LTE versions of multiple 8ish", 10.1" and 12.2" tablets all running different versions of s/w they've created a quagmire when it comes to updates; especially considering each of those tablets is also running different s/w across God knows how many regions each.
It would certainly make sense based on its selling price that the N12 would be a front runner for updates but its sales volume is well below other newish Samsung tablets. Samsung's logic appears random (did anyone expect the over two-year old N10.1 to receive 4.4.2?) hence avoiding terms like all and definitely.
Thank goodness the software and hardware these days is better than the first couple of generations of tablets.
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BarryH_GEG said:
It would certainly make sense based on its selling price that the N12 would be a front runner for updates but its sales volume is well below other newish Samsung tablets. Samsung's logic appears random (did anyone expect the over two-year old N10.1 to receive 4.4.2?) hence avoiding terms like all and definitely.
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And nordic one, N8000, is still missing that update - it is still running 4.1.2 - althought 4.4.2 came already on may in Germany.
There is no logic with Samsung. And im not going to follow that illogical train anymore...
Sent from my phone - Note 10.1 (N8000)
BarryH_GEG said:
I'd never use the words all or definitely in anything having to do with Samsung. The N10.1-14, Pro's, and S's are all using near identical h/w yet all are running different versions of TW with different feature sets and varying versions of Samsung's s/w
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Google has already released Linux 3.10 kernel config files for Exynos and Qualcomm SOCs. Work has already started to bring Android L to our devices.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/google-experimental-3-10-defconfigs-msm-exynos-tegra/
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dodo99x said:
Google has already released Linux 3.10 kernel config files for Exynos and Qualcomm SOCs. Work has already started to bring Android L to our devices.
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Google releasing s/w Samsung could use in their development has nothing to do with the update schedule for existing devices. Exynos 5433 is already out. It's more likely to appear with Android L first and in a new device. The results of Samsung's access to new Android code and the timing of existing devices receiving it via an update has always been piss poor. What's changed?
BarryH_GEG said:
Google releasing s/w Samsung could use in their development has nothing to do with the update schedule for existing devices. Exynos 5433 is already out. It's more likely to appear with Android L first and in a new device. The results of Samsung's access to new Android code and the timing of existing devices receiving it via an update has always been piss poor. What's changed?
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This is why I have never believed the rumors of the Nexus line being discontinued. I can't imagine android development continuing without a vanilla device build out in the wild unencumbered by all of the bull$h!t antics of not wanting the updates of software on one device to affect the initial sales of a new one. At least that's the impression samsung puts off; for all I know there's only a couple of developers on staff and they aren't allowed to develop for anything BUT the next device.
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muzzy996 said:
At least that's the impression samsung puts off
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I agree. Add to the business practice of forcing people to buy new devices to get the latest OS and/or Samsung features that they couldn't have possibly created a more complex s/w eco-system for they themselves to maintain. They release a slew of devices back-to-back in hopes that some "hit" and sell in droves. In the wake of that strategy are hundreds of devices, in Wi-Fi, 3G, and LTE, each with regionalized s/w.
Using the 12.2" tablets, with and without S Pen, as an example, there are probably hundreds of s/w versions to support. So business practices aside rolling out a world-wide update to a single tablet line becomes a nightmarish process. They did it to themselves and it's going to bite them in the ass some day. As an example, I'd normally be first-in-line for the Note 4. As it stands, my N3 and N10.1-14 have pretty common s/w between them which makes bouncing and sharing between them pretty easy. I'm not getting a Note 4 because the odds of my N10.1-14 every being common with it s/w wise is a million to one. And performance wise there's nothing wrong with either of them. Maybe if there's a N10.1-15 that's common with the Note 4 I'll get both but unlike in the past where there were huge gains to be had in moving to Samsung's "next big thing" there really aren't anymore. And with the high-end in tablets and smartphones maturing people thinking like I do will kill Samsung's earnings. Love the products; particularly the Note-series. Becoming less and less a fan of the company every day.
Say it ain't so Barry . . . I'm waiting on the Note 4 to switch to from my Nexus 4. You really think I may have issues between the two (Note 4 and my Note Pro?). Truth be told other than having synced dropsync folders for Lecturenotes I'm not entering into the Note 4 with the expectation of sharing things between the two devices. BTW I have no intention of ever getting rid of the nexus 4 at this time LOL. I'll switch between the two phones.
BarryH_GEG said:
Google releasing s/w Samsung could use in their development has nothing to do with the update schedule for existing devices. Exynos 5433 is already out. It's more likely to appear with Android L first and in a new device. The results of Samsung's access to new Android code and the timing of existing devices receiving it via an update has always been piss poor. What's changed?
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Well I remain hopeful that the update will occur. However, I don't understand the need to be on the very bleeding edge of Android versions. With my experience with my Nexus 7, Nexus 10 and Nexus 5, they usually introduce more bugs than they fix.
As long as Samsung fixes any current bugs in 4.4.2, my device can keep chugging along with this version. Going to 5.0 might open up a can of worms that may make the device much less stable and a pain to use.
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...l-5-0-release-date-when-can-i-get-it--1257804
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muzzy996 said:
Say it ain't so Barry . . . I'm waiting on the Note 4 to switch to from my Nexus 4. You really think I may have issues between the two (Note 4 and my Note Pro?). Truth be told other than having synced dropsync folders for Lecturenotes I'm not entering into the Note 4 with the expectation of sharing things between the two devices. BTW I have no intention of ever getting rid of the nexus 4 at this time LOL. I'll switch between the two phones.
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Everything will probably still be compatible but newer versions (EG: S Note, My Files, TW) will have different interfaces, menus, and controls. I don't want (personally) to have to jump between different products that more than likely do the same thing. My N3 and N10.1-14 still have menu capacitive buttons which I'm use to. Having one device with a task capacitive button and the other a menu button would drive me crazy. I'm a productivity user and having to think about doing the same thing differently across my devices would drive me nuts. So I'll upgrade in pairs or not at all. Think about the N10.1-14, Pro's, and S'. With the exception of M-UX being omitted from the N10.1-14, they all are functionally equivalent. Yet all are running different versions of TW with different (by age) versions of stock s/w. What bothers me may not bother others but intentionally leaving older (but still current) devices behind feature wise doesn't strike me as a way of retaining customers. How many people will ditch a $600ish tablet and buy a new one just to get a newer version of s/w? Especially when 95% of what both do is common? Samsung's logic baffles me some times.
Anyone figured out rooting
anyone figured out rooting i got this device 1 week ago cause i liked my note 3 allot but can i use the same method to root it like my note 3 i used towelroot for my note will this also work on my pro 12.2:good:
Is it dead? far from it. If anything, the recent and continued price drops are building the market share for this device. I ddon't think it has even begun to come close to what it's eventual user installed base is going to be. Dont let the lack of Samsung updates worry you
Not a chance
This thing is way too powerful and just plain awesome to be dead. The bloat ware is a resource hog but fix that and you have one of the best devices I have been lucky enough to call myself an owner of.
There are always updates that we want but what issues are you facing specifically that have you waiting for an update. Just curious because mine has really been impressive from day one, and i have owned all 3 note phones and now the Pro so I wasn't expecting to be too impressed.