Ok, it's quite clear android is the most popular phone OS on the market at the moment but I'm beginning to believe that some of their less customer friendly strategies are making the carriers greedy. Back in the day when I was using my original blackjack each time there was an update to Winmo I knew that within a couple weeks ATT would get it my way without fail. Ever since the G1 though there's a new tactic used of course to sell more phones. Basically they can release the same exact phone with a new version of an OS or maybe a small feature (e.g. front facing camera) and sell just as much as the original. I mean why would carriers want to update your phone for you when they could sell you the exact same phone back with the newest version of android which is likely just a palette swap of the previous version? The refusal of most carriers to update their devices kicked off hard even with the initial release of android. The G1 was essentially the same phone as the MT3g except with the amazing keyboard we all fell in love with. The mytouch released months later with the exact same specs (you can even run the exact same roms on them) and yet the mytouch got an update whereas the G didn't. When people asked T-mobile where their G1 update was T-mobile said that it was not possible to run live wallpapers on such a dated device. Ever since then time and time again carriers and OEMs have let us down not because they cant do it but because they can sell us another device if they won't. A big selling point in getting the behold 2 for me was the fact that it would receive every update according to samsung... They never even built the drivers... I was stuck with a phone with a terrible UI. It happens time and time again and now similar things seem to be happening to other OSes. Blackberry is running into the same kind of thing where that more or less never happened before and I'm not ruling windows phone out just yet but I fear with greedy carriers they may end up following suit as much as I hate to admit it. The OEMs and carriers greed is killing smartphones. I mean android is open source and free, if they want to put it on a toaster they can. How hard is it to update? Really? I mean I know there's some one man teams on XDA who can do it... Dont let smartphones die.
It's not Android. It's more Google's policies. I love Google, but they have to grow some balls and tell the manufacturers that in order to be able to release an Android phone with the Google Apps, they need to release updates in X amount of months maximum after an update is delivered and they must support a phone for at least 2 OS iterations.
Forget Apple. Look at Microsoft. Windows Phone 7 isn't really for me since I like to tinker with my phone, although occasionally I wish it wasn't such a time waster. It is a great OS though. Microsoft first of all tells manufacturers that they can include custom apps, but no custom interfaces (this will never happen with Android). Then, they release an upgrade and all the phones get it. I'll admit it's a little easier since all WP7 have mostly the same parts, and definitely the same Snapdragon CPU since that's all WP7 OS supports right now. But this can totally be done by Google. I think the market is over-saturated with Android phones right now. Choice is good, but I don't want to pick up a phone and then immediately have it deemed obsolete. I mean after a while, I just want to walk away. I love Android, but it is getting kind of ridiculous. Obviously, manufacturers won't listen to us. Google is more likely to. They need to get a hold on things.
I see where you're coming ffrom, but you have to remember that companies (all companies) are here to make money. That's it. Make money.
So they'll mmake phones with skins because they get some percentage back from the phone; granted they could offer a pure Google phone but you have to remember: we aren't fhe target audience.
These phones are made for the average consumer that has the default and maybe twitter and facebook.
Of course, there will always be good pure Google phone out there to snag. I just got the Nexus 1 and ill be using this for a long time.
Hey!! This is really a great thread. I am really very impressed with your conversation.
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
butch87402 said:
I feel like I was played I preorderded the mytouch 3g 1.0 for $230 and now its not even sold anymore I wanna upgrade but their telling me its pretty much $300 to upgrade so you mean I get no discount.....wth? 8 years with T-Mobile and I get nothing
Sent from my HTC Magic/Dream using XDA App
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Well, that's more a T-Mobile issue than an Android issue, but I feel your pain.
All carriers are interested in is selling contracts and phones. They don't really care about peoples experiences after that point. They certainly won't want to encourage people to hang on to the same devices for years, but i think they should obligated to support their phones for at least the duration of the warranty. Any software updates released within that period should be pushed out immediately.
Don't be anxious, when u check technology developments in the past 20 years or more. How can we tell the difference between technology innovation and hunger for money?
'Greedy' is the nature of us human beings and it give us more happy and distress.
It's not the carriers you need to be worried about. Android is a fantastic OS and I love it and have gotten into the inner workings of it lately, to realize one thing: Google drives this whole deal. And since Google makes 98% of its money off of its Adsense program, wouldn't you agree that they would like to maintain/build that as much as possible? The more Google knows about where you are, your likes and dislikes, what you search for, etc, the better they can facilitate their moneymaking process. Google Apps (Gapps) are the way they do this, and why they are not included in a 'real' open souce project. Think it's bad now? Wait till Honeycomb....I've been tweaking this for the past 3 weeks and you wouldn't believe the permission changes that are related to google. Little things that were Hardware processes before (alert me when near an open wifi) are now basically (alert google your location thru gps at all times.). Of course there are ways around it, but the avg. user won't know that. Just fyi.
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
xaccers said:
If anything Apple ruined it for us.
Imagine a world without iphones.
Microsoft wouldn't have had it to copy for WP7, instead they would have had been free to release WM7, with all the features of WM, and also designed for future technologies.
Even if they had copied Android, we'd have a decent Microsoft OS for our phones unlike now.
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Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
z33dev33l said:
Initially I thought you were an intelligent person one could have an adult debate with based on facts. Thank you for proving me wrong only in that sense and in no way in any of the debates.
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You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
xaccers said:
You're on WP7 so apple's model has more impact on you than googles.
Are you suggesting that MS may stop deplying updates for WP7 or start allowing carriers to not deploy updates MS provide?
If not, then how exactly does google/carriers releasing new features to stimulate handset sales ruin it for WP7 or iphone users for that matter?
Carriers have always behaved this way, whatever the OS unless contractually obliged to roll out updates.
We missed out on so many updates for Nokias for instance, so this has nothing to do with google or android.
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Cant say I have much experience with Symbian devices but on Winmo, palm, and earlier blackberries I always got updates. Android has shown they dont need to maintain their devices to sale them and I believe that can have a negative impact on phones as a whole
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
xaccers said:
The fact is it has been going on long before android came on the scene. Motorola, samsung, lg, and many others forced you to get a new handset to take advantage of new features.
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
Especially as many android handsets have recieved updates which negates your idea that android prevents this.
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It's not so much that they prevent it as it is that they dont even really suggest it. It's just like "Oh, btw heres this update. You dont have to put work forth to put it on your device but it's there if you want it. It's really the OEMs and carriers fault as I stated but the fact that android doesnt put something forth to at least suggest it is sad.
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
xaccers said:
So your argument is, even though you can't stand android and won't touch it, you think it is wrong of google to not interfere with carriers and manufacturers in dictacting whether updates it produces are made available to handsets and this somehow is ruining WP7 for you, but despite this being normal practice between carriers and manufacturers since time immemorial, your singling out of android (even though phones have actually been recieving updates) rather than manufacturers or carriers is nothing at all to do with your dislike of android, right?
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Never said I hated android. It's just second best now. Of course phones lose support over time but not before they even hit shelves. When the Galaxy S phones were coming out they were promised a fast update to 2.2. It only took T-mobile 6+ months of customers complaining for them to be the first to update it stateside. My old blackjack made by the exact same company was recieving its last update at the end of my contract a full two years later. The HTC touch did the same, hell even my PPC6800 would've had that not been where I started flashing roms. Android phones are burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit shelves and that is something new. I dont expect a phone to be supported forever but for them to stop support by the time it hits shelves is just sad.
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
xaccers said:
The only reason to single out android is for a petty grievence.
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Amen.
[10 char]
xaccers said:
T-mobile are not google/android, they're a carrier.
Android handsets have recieved updates, therefore your statement that they are left to rot by the time they hit the shelves is not true (there's a suprise).
Apple/WP7 interfere with carriers and dictate to them what updates should be released (even if they haven't thought it would be a good idea to test it before the release to carriers) therefore your suggestion that Android is ruining it for all of us is also not true (again big suprise).
Additionally, when a new version is released, it does not prevent phones running the old versions from running, nor does it prevent them accessing the thousands of apps currently in the market, again showing that android phones aren't burnt out and left to rot by the time they hit the shelves.
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Thats funny because I just flashed my G1 back to stop and I cant access a ton of the apps... I said it was the fault of the carriers and OEMs though I do wish android would at least suggest updating. I mean of all the android devices out there what percent of them do you think actually receive updates through the service providers or OEMs?
Related
I am genuinely pissed after they postponed the ICS event because I felt like that would be the infuses' time to get current with its OS. Maybe I'm venting my frustration a bit but 500K+ devices are turned on per day(at least for the next few months). I see that version pie chart and Froyo is still number 1 despite GB releasing roughly 10 months ago(not to mention a new version is weeks from releasing) . It's exactly why I come here.
I would also like to point out that the Fragmentation also causes what I like to call a popularity contest. Yes you have a crap ton of device options but guess what the carriers and manufacturer are making sure the cash cows are first in line. Do you think they have as many engineers/developers working with the ChaCha as they do on sgs2? Hell no
Why is Google shooting themselves in the foot in staying current? Why on earth haven't they sat down with the phone manufacturers and hammered out some sort of standard to speed up adoption of new OS?
Android has a wide array of devices and that makes them unique and better than the competition by offering choice.
I understand that the burden of keeping up to speed primarily falls to the manufacturer/carriers which blows for us. The maker/google contract states the carrier only has update the device for 18 months. The definition and or frequency of an update is obscure at best.
I don't even want to guess how much money is being wasted on development overlapping costs because of the hodgepodge of devices. I tried to find out exactly how many hardware devices are currently supported. I found a list of everything but no summary I didn't feel like counting the but a good estimate is 350 + worldwide.
I understand the development life cycle as well as a hardware life-cycle. I fail to understand why integration of an update takes longer than one quarter to apply.
Google develops tests and releases system updates. The manufacturers takes that update and tests it with their bull**** on top (IE touch wiz and sense) then they test on devices.
Carriers finally now test the update, certify it, and push to users(never pushed at one time because they would never risk any downtime or damage to their network).
Wtf google step your game up and reduce the impact of Fragmentation because its only going to get worse and worse.
I'm the kind of device user that makes a well informed decision and won't get a new device until it breaks or I lose it(wow thinking about it I really am horrible with phones).
I have had this phone since it came out in April and I love it (I left it in a cab during the first 2 weeks I had it but was able to get my replacement soon after). Basically I'm a day one Adopter I had my original rooted and rom'd. It drastically improved the general usability of the phone. I decided to wait to mod the phone until I got the official gb to see what it could bring to the table. I really like the one click update with no issues but my hand has been forced. My device has been becoming noticeably slower and i find myself pulling the battery at least once every 2 days. To use it as a phone like it was intended I need to port to a mod. The
Thank you developers for implementing what the billion dollar corporations could not in literally 1/10 of the time.
Sorry if I ranted I'm pissed and there's no way I'm going down to wallstreet lol I'm lazy.
Jason
Note: I also read that it could reach nearly 1 million devices a day by the end of Oct/Nov.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Trust me I understand your frustration! According to google ICS was supposed to be that game changing release but honestly marketing is what is stopping companies from unifying. A majority of people who get an Android device don't know what the hell to do with it, how it works, or in the most part don't care (or at least don't seem to understand the difference between froyo and GB) they just want a functioning
phone. Then comes ios, that's why it's so popular.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
jasonk1229 said:
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
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Quite frankly your frustration (and mine) is backed by the dev community; to atleast some extent. Although, I still believe google saw the bright green money tree right above their noses and since then, can not let go of the smell! In other words, there wont' be a solution in the near future.
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
diablo009 said:
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
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I couldn't name to you all the releases that are out there
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
spirikitik said:
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
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Are you running a custom rom, kernel, radio, are you OC/UV?
Any and all of these things can and will give you instability. I had a cm7 theme that kept crashing the system on my backflip.
The only way to do away with MOST not all issues is to live in "the box".
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
MikeyMike01 said:
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
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Lol. By the ICS is out on a couple phones he would've switched to a different phone.
MikeyMike01 said:
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
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There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Kevinr678 said:
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
slapshot30 said:
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
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Completely agreed. Phone's that will never officially have things like Sense 3.5 have it, and the same with firmwares. I do love my Samsung though.
Ryanscool said:
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
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Click to collapse
Problem is that every phone has vendor-proprietary bits to handle specific hardware support that aren't portable. The Apache license of the Android userland stack makes this possible. Also the ability to have proprietary modules loaded by the kernel doesn't help - for example the FSR and RFS drivers in the Infuse. The same reason you'll likely never see ICS for the Infuse is the same reason you didn't see CM7 until Rogers Gingerbread dropped. (It existed, but it was in a barely usable state until the vendor-proprietary stuff from Rogers GB could get pulled in.)
The good news is that I think Google is forcing vendors to "play nicer" as far as the low-level vendor-proprietary code in order to make AOSP bringups easier. They enforced a LOT of standardization with Honeycomb - the question is can they keep that going with ICS without witholding source like with HC? I think that by exercising tighter control over Google Apps licensing they can.
The Galaxy S II is a hint of things to come - while it still has vendor-proprietary libraries in the userland stack, it has zero closed-source components in the kernel, unlike previous Samsungs.
Motivation and $.
my opinion only...but, phone carriers have no motivation* to update the o.s. of phones already sold.
Just a few random thoughts...
1. Limited $ to be made from you (the customer waiting for an upgrade)
....a. sale of the device is already made.
....b. buyer is already locked into a long-term contract.
2. they are a phone company not a software company...thus any software developers they might have are probably focused on future sales and testing.
3. they don't make money releasing updates to already sold phones.
4. support staff would have to be pretty good size.
I wonder if the phone providers keep software upgrade staff or do they contract that out??? say to the phone manufacture (i.e. samsung, htc)? I have no idea.
(I am assuming it's the phone carriers who are the primary cause of delays in releasing software updates...not necessarily the
* what's more important to them? Future repeat customers due to good service OR simply getting them locked into longterm service contracts? Obviously point 2.
I wish fragmentation was decreased to that of the IBM compatibe market. (Am I the only one that still calls them that?)
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Interesting point I would have to say they contract the work out to upgrade versions. If they haven't already I wouldn't be surprised to see full teams being hired as android becomes more permanent.
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Great post
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The debate continues on TechCrunch:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/27/charted-android-fragmentation/
I just read this article, a good eye opener for those craving for ICS
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394929,00.asp
Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right. Compared to the grinding misery of the Android non-update schedule, Microsoft's transition from Windows Phone 7 to Mango is going pretty smoothly.
Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different OEMs and get its software approved by carriers. Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different form factors—phones with physical keyboards and without, for instance.
Yes, Apple gets it right too, but that's a little boring; Apple has only one OEM (itself) and a handful of models, so it's much easier to push out updates to iPhones and iPads.
Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)
Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset, and doesn't allow manufacturers to skin the OS. I don't want to see Google take on the first requirement, as competition between chip manufacturers has been a major force driving Android's advances. But even if one chipset at a time got Android updates, it would still be a major step forward.
If manufacturer skins are really stopping updates, it may finally be time for Google to find a way to punish OEMs that can't keep up with the pace of change. Google likes to trumpet its openy-ness, but the company has always blessed and punished OEMs by giving or withholding the Android Market and Gmail apps that are necessary to have a decent Android device. Google needs to set a time limit for OEMs to implement changes.
Ice Cream Sandwich looks great. So when can we get it, how can we find apps for it, and how can app developers address the widest variety of Android devices easily? That's what Google needs to answer clearly and concisely.
and it made me think alot.
I'm an android fan, but i feel this author's opinion is quite true.
whats the point of having a good and new OS but its just available on a over priced nexus phone?
android updates are slow (i mean around 6 months or probably never). and silly manufacturers are further delaying it by their custom UI. This is just sad sad news for android.
i better stop reading news about ICS, just to make myself less miserable.
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
I agree, that's probably the biggest stumbling block of Android. When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
One thing though, Microsoft controls the hardware specs of WP7 phones very closely. Sure there's differences here and there, but not as far reaching as a Galaxy 3 vs a Galaxy S2.
Well, heres my opinion about this subject:
No, it will not make things worst, i have been using android since donut with an HTC Magic, from which i had tried 2.1 and 2.2. Never resourcing from HTC's official releases.
I'll put it simple, for someone who needs a smartphone, almost every verion of android will do, you get to manage emails on the go, music, photos, market+apps, you get the point.
Now for someone that takes "what version of android i'm running" into consideration, there are solutions to run the latest. Me for example, i do take it into consideration, and i'm running 2.3.5 on a LG2X which only has 2.2 officially.
If this was real reality, what about X86 OS's? i mean, win3.1, win95, win98, win98ME, win2K, winXP, winVISTA, win7 and now win8... And im only talking about microsoft.
Theres no such thing has fragmentation. As for the development problems regarding which target android version will "I" develop to. Cmon, theres good coding or bad coding. OFC theres some API's that are only available since version X of the android version, but still, good coding would prevent the use of this API even if it means having less functionality.
I believe android is in the right track, ICS looks to have some nice improvements, although the main development i saw was design ("Make me awesome"), i believe there has been some improvements regarding stability+smoothness+usability.
Next stop is: "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right." Wait a second, google has made the most successful mobile OS and it needs to look to Microsoft for *whatever*?
"Yes, Apple gets it right too" No! if in Sascha's opinion Fragmentation is a problem, Apple is having the same issue, but it is coming later than android, mainly due to the 23454345672384 OEM's android has versus the 1 OEM Apple has! I mean, 1 oem, 1 OS = iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod Touch Xgen, iPad, iPad 2.. FFS! fragmentation? a single oem has made more devices than most android OEM's has! (not true, but quite)
[EDIT] Sorry im berserking.
"Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset" if this was done in the Android habitat, there would be no sense in making different versions, varying prices, and so on. Fragmentation is good in some aspects, one of them being the different prices devices can get.
As for the version and updates problem, how about attacking the OEM's itself instead of Google? Since google is the main "victim" of this article, google has made all it can do to get it "corrected" (if this is a problem) and it even does not own the OEM's companies! All phones launched by google have had some nice updates, keeping it with the most recent OS all the time. (Yes i'm talking about the nexus lineup, Nexus One is 2 years old, so i guess it will not get ICS, still iphone 2G will not get iOS 5 neither.)
[EDIT2] Now i'm haywire.
Just take a look at the article comments, the writer ends up having no arguments. FFS He's calling WP7 an example for updates! saying that the OS provider has the obligation the get OEM's in line...NO! thats the good thing about Android, it is free, free to use, and free to transform. Every OEM is responsible for what they do with the devices they sell, and the OS they ship it with.
Thats like saying that my Dinossaur pc doesn't run windows 7 and call it Microsoft's fault, because my PC only have 96MB of Ram! Isn't that almost Apple-fanboy talk? The os provider must develop the HW for it to run properly.
Logi_Ca1 said:
When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
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That is true, except for one thing. There is a response.
If you want iOS, you have the choice of black or white. If you want Android then you have the choice of hundreds of different devices. It's a trade-off that I am more than happy with. I prefer choice over regular updates, especially when the OS is already good enough anyway.
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
drelite08 said:
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs. Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
Sorry but there's no apple fanboy like Joshua Toposlky, he is the only one in the world (sarcasm =P) that can see the bright side of both sides of the war.
Archer said:
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs.
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Thats why i did say that for a smartphone user, every android version will sufice.
Archer said:
Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
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Click to collapse
This is almost not noticeable in the android environment because of the OEM's, not google's fault
[EDIT] OMFG! Now this is stupid, this is SO STUPID! Check this out, he makes a table of the new features that the new iOS can do, an compares it to other OS's... so lets start:
Location Based Reminders: Only iOS
Quick Camera Acess: iOS and WP7
Advanced Photo Editing tools: Only iOS
Advanced Voice Commands: Only iOS
My answer to this is: I am not going to open another URL coming from PCmag
The way Android works is that Google do not have that much control over it after the OS is designed, it gets open-sourced then it is down to each individual OEM to build a rom and get their carrier partners to approve it.
Google have deliberately chosen to not do it the more formal way as it will defeat the entire original purpose that android had.
Obviously there is more complicated steps in the process when it comes to the licencing of Gapps....
However google and the other major partners have expressed their wish to reduce fragmentation and move to ICS as soon as possible, but that article was right in that we have not been given any strict words. However any phone currently running android 2.3 and is still getting worked on (i.e. not EOL) should receive an ICS update. I know that samsung are working on very quick timetables and the SGS2 rom should be out very quickly, but based on the past experience companies like HTC may take a very long time.
in WP7 Microsoft give a rom to the OEMS to do very minor tweaks, this is then approved and released.
I think what people are missing
Here guys is the fact that android os is the only open source os out of three three majors!
This means that u don't really need the oems to have latest up to date os version. As we can c clearly in the case of cynogenmod project. Moreover, the android build it's reputation on being the most comprehensive os with most capabilities to consume the most of the hardware. This is a big plus for everybody.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Ray1 said:
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
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Click to collapse
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
svceon said:
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ray1, i'm not upset, don't get me wrong =P i just thought you were saying that you wanted ICS now, and that you were frustraded that you didn't had. i'm only upset by PCMAG by it's acumulated stupidity.
As for the updates, there are a lot of 2.3.4/5 roms in the SGSII development sub-forum, why dont you try to flash one?
Another thing about firmware and OEM's updates:
When i buy a car, i dont expect it to be upgraded when the next generation of engines are released. When i buy a car i bought it because i needed it or i wanted it as it was being sold.
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
linkin85 said:
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't make a lot of sense
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no Google talk video call in 2.3.4 nor 2.3.5..
the fact that the author wrote "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right" made him lose any ounce of credibility that he had (if he had any to begin with.)
they released WP 7 without half of the proven needs on a smartphone (eg. cut and paste), released an "update" which was basically a primer for your phone to be able to OTA update when the new "patch" was released. and it didn't even adress the issues that had people *****ing about the phone. Mango was promised to be released last year, and it's already october 2011. I got rid of my windows phone within 3 months of buying on.
so what if apple releases iOS 5 to all iphone users? half of them probably doesn't even know what's on the new OS. the other half are still marvelling over siri as some technological breakthrough. it has got to be the most boring OS i've seen. everyone holding an iOS phone/tablet/ipod looks the same as the other person holding it. oh great, you can change the wallpaper...whoopdiedoo...and buy a 200 dollar case for it! wowie.
i was a loyal windows mobile user for many many years, having used them since O2 still manufactured awesome products. I loved it for how much I could customize it to suit how I'd like it to be. I'm not paying 1000 bucks and have the company tell me how I should want it to look. I'm sorry, but a homescreen with 16 icons on it just doesn't look appealing to me. I have been blown away by what the android OS can do.
how ICS release can be bad for android users baffles me. I bet the author was wetting himself when apple launched the white iphone.
This ''issue'' can be avoided by installing CM7. This way your phone is like a nexus and has the latest updates.
Umm this isn't really google's fault by any means; whether or not ICS comes to our devices is up to the manufacturers, and it's is up to us as consumers to let them know that we don't want a customized UI, but standard android instead.
Vote with your wallets and send manufacturers complaint letters and you shall have what you wish for. Just look at the locked boot loaders issue as an example of what can be done when enough people complain and commit to a cause.
1) don't rely on Official Roms all the time, plenty of leaks for 2.3.4 and 2.3.5 have surfaced
2) Just because you are not yet on 2.3.4 doesn't mean you won't get ICS, you don't have to go up every single OS step in order...
Again Android liberty. You can pick the OEM. If you want the fastest update buy a nexus. Slower OEMs will sell lesser product in the future. And I didn't get the idea of the article. Is limiting the OSs with resolution and chips a good thing? If so what are we doing here?
Sent from my GT-I9100
Consumer are on the loosing end ;(
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support
Android users unite, demand upgrades
The state of Android software support is ridiculous, and some Android users have their heads in the sand and make excuses for the problem.
As a group we should demand software updates. 6 months ago Google and their partners in the open handset alliance pledged to address the issue of software updates and nothing has come of this. I still own a Droid Charge only officially running an Android version that came out in 2009.
What has Samsung done since releasing my Charge? Released the Stratosphere, as well as numerous other devices across other carriers.
If you think the average consumer does not care that their phone isn't running the latest software, then you may be correct. But, the average consumer sure as heck cares that his phone does not have the features of other competing companies. Also, stability is another issue, some phones are left running unstable software.
Do not ignore this problem. Android will lose the war if this continues. If this is being compared to the PC market, we are in 1989, Android could be any number of platforms that doesn't make it.
If you care about the platform, demand more of the platform.
Danwsim said:
The state of Android software support is ridiculous, and some Android users have their heads in the sand and make excuses for the problem.
As a group we should demand software updates. 6 months ago Google and their partners in the open handset alliance pledged to address the issue of software updates and nothing has come of this. I still own a Droid Charge only officially running an Android version that came out in 2009.
What has Samsung done since releasing my Charge? Released the Stratosphere, as well as numerous other devices across other carriers.
If you think the average consumer does not care that their phone isn't running the latest software, then you may be correct. But, the average consumer sure as heck cares that his phone does not have the features of other competing companies. Also, stability is another issue, some phones are left running unstable software.
Do not ignore this problem. Android will lose the war if this continues. If this is being compared to the PC market, we are in 1989, Android could be any number of platforms that doesn't make it.
If you care about the platform, demand more of the platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this is true, I'd definitely have to agree. Don't get me wrong, I love Android, but there are some things I wish they would fix. Like the caller waiting feature, it should be updated to be more user friendly. Why should you have to hang up and wait for the automatic call back? They need to rebuild that part of the ui where you can.
Very interesting article. Very true also. It is a sad and troubling issue unfortunately for us. Software support and updates seem to be getting worse and worse for us Android users.
Good thing i got my nexus handset...kind of helps as at least i know google will keep rolling out the updates for at least 18 to 24 months.
The problem is with the big phone manufactures...they skin android too deep and take too long to clear up their mess in order to update the builds. Also they just want us to buy new phones every few months it seems. I intend to see my nexus s contract through to the remaining 12 months for sure. Ice Cream Sandwich looks delicious by the way!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
All they do is release a new model so they force us to buy new device, i might go back to iPhone I am really on the edge.
Well LG just impressed my by updating my moms LG Shine Pus ( think GSM Ally) from 2.1 to 2.3 and i mean the only thing that phone is lacking in is processor. 480x800 screen, 512 ram and a wait for it 600mhz processor. And it is a phone which doesn't require a data plan so my mom only pays like $20 a month for it
Dark lord me said:
Well LG just impressed my by updating my moms LG Shine Pus ( think GSM Ally) from 2.1 to 2.3 and i mean the only thing that phone is lacking in is processor. 480x800 screen, 512 ram and a wait for it 600mhz processor. And it is a phone which doesn't require a data plan so my mom only pays like $20 a month for it
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Click to collapse
If you have no data plan, that means she just use the phone to call and text, she does not need update, this is sad for the smartphone users with data
spirikitik said:
If you have no data plan, that means she just use the phone to call and text, she does not need update, this is sad for the smartphone users with data
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Click to collapse
Yeah well when we were going to get the phone it was a cheap slider dumb phone and we walked out with one of those and with froyo it brought speed increments which help on the phone and i mean my moms not the kind who even uses data just games and such
Totally agree. Fragmentation is a major issue and a lot of people don't realize that if the issues aren't griped about then they have no reason to fix them.
z33dev33l said:
Totally agree. Fragmentation is a major issue and a lot of people don't realize that if the issues aren't griped about then they have no reason to fix them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes a lot of android user know that, they just don't want to admit that sometime they visit android market and download an app and found out the app crashes and wouldn't not work on their device, and still they don't want to say it, because they always want android to win vs apple, rim and wp7, the funny thing is they are not even part of the company, and will manufacturers don't update their device but can release new devices with an updated android OS, so people with money on their hand sell their phone and buy new android device just to update, they want android to win but they do not realize that android is sucking the life out of their pocket.
ICS is too late for it, but I hope J(ellybean) functions more like a launcher and its theme. Just mass update the background OS for all phones (whether through OTA or through website), and let manufacturer/telcom update their skin independently, so that consumers don't have to wait for the (unreliable) promise from manufacturer/telcom.
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
spirikitik said:
Yes a lot of android user know that, they just don't want to admit that sometime they visit android market and download an app and found out the app crashes and wouldn't not work on their device, and still they don't want to say it, because they always want android to win vs apple, rim and wp7, the funny thing is they are not even part of the company, and will manufacturers don't update their device but can release new devices with an updated android OS, so people with money on their hand sell their phone and buy new android device just to update, they want android to win but they do not realize that android is sucking the life out of their pocket.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are we guaranteed by policy that the phones need to be updated? If anyone can check the sales agreement, is it mentioned anything about the future software update?
I have not checked, but I think there is no such obligation from manufacturer. So, in essence they are not breaking the law. We buy a phone on what it has presently, not speculating about future enhancements.
It would be great to have manufacturers give more attention to this update issue. But I doubt anyone could hold them accountable.
It's also obvious that if any of these get updated, it would be only the premier ones, not the budget models.
zeekiz said:
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just can handle the truth jerk butt
spirikitik said:
You just can handle the truth jerk butt
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Click to collapse
Android vs iSO is exactly the same as pc vs console, some people enjoy having freedom on their devices, and constantly upgrade, some people want something like a console, nothing ground breaking but has a bit better stability but no flexibility. (I'm assuming your an Apple fan boy due to the lack of depth to your argument, also perceivable intelligence).
zeekiz said:
Android vs iSO is exactly the same as pc vs console, some people enjoy having freedom on their devices, and constantly upgrade, some people want something like a console, nothing ground breaking but has a bit better stability but no flexibility. (I'm assuming your an Apple fan boy due to the lack of depth to your argument, also perceivable intelligence).
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Click to collapse
You got me wrong, it is just this fact hurt your ego about the stat of updates and you see it and still don't believe it, you are the android fanboy and for that makes you blind, and your intelligence, stay stagnant like a swamp.
zeekiz said:
You hate android, good work, insert_manufacturer fanboy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is the attitude of a fanboy. "Oh, you don't like my OS? You must be a wp7/iOS fanboy."
Gotta say, I'm a fanboy for no OS and have them all but as far as hardware goes, I'm slowly becoming a Nokia fanboy
Lol z33 you really are funny. And quite the fibber.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
spirikitik said:
All they do is release a new model so they force us to buy new device, i might go back to iPhone I am really on the edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So do you have iOS5 installed on your iphone, iphone 3G?
Which app is exclusive to gingerbread?
I think you should go back to iphone. It looks like you've made up your mind.
As for updates, US carrier versions tend to be slower and no surprises there with all the bloatware and restrictions they have to build into the firmware
Also there are ton of posts on xda where users with 2.3.3/2.3.4 devices complain about not receiving 2.3.5 updates and same goes for 3.0/3.1 users not receiving 3.2 update without knowing what that new revision brings to the table
As corps begin to adopt smartphones, the first thing a CIO will ask, "What's the Product Life Cycle?"
3GS gets iOS5 but the Nexus One won't get ICS!? Lowe's just ordered 42,000 iPhones, I would have too. Pull your head out Google!!! It's not just the kids who want updates but the grown ups too!
Sent from my LG-P509
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...tm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
This article got me thinking. Why the hell do we (e.g. - you, the US people. In Romania, EU, it's not like this) have to wait for the *carrier*, and not the OS maker (be it Microsoft or Google) to roll out an update?
Why should they be in charge, when they actually should only be a pathway between the client (phones) and services (servers which deliver content/functionality) ?
I find it very awkward and cumbersome. I could understand a situation in which customers would have to wait from the OEM (Asus, HTC, etc) to send the update. But carriers? Really?
Could be right, if not someone correct me...
The Carries sometimes make their own "ROMs" for the device. The manufactures will make the basic software updates for the specific device , then send it to the carries for them to make their own software updates. For example Verizon might update their "My-Verizon" app or so on.
Basically the carries will get the update before the end users so they can bloat it up.
or perhaps the manufacturer like HTC, LG, Samsung should take care of the updates
LogisticsXLS said:
Could be right, if not someone correct me...
The Carries sometimes make their own "ROMs" for the device. The manufactures will make the basic software updates for the specific device , then send it to the carries for them to make their own software updates. For example Verizon might update their "My-Verizon" app or so on.
Basically the carries will get the update before the end users so they can bloat it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, couldn't they just update the apps through the Play store, just like every other friggin' app on any Android phone? 3-4 months delay for some crappy app that no one ever uses is absurd...
I know with my phone (Galaxy Nexus) the updates come from samsung who have to tweak it. Other devices (most in general) need to be tested to make sure that the bloatware that's on them works
bogdan5844 said:
Well, couldn't they just update the apps through the Play store, just like every other friggin' app on any Android phone? 3-4 months delay for some crappy app that no one ever uses is absurd...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea they can, but updating the apps itself might not be the only reason why they get to hug the update before the end-user. They could be tweaking the update before putting it OTA. Also not to forget they could also be responsible for the radio updates.
Either way, they get it before us so they can add, tweak or remove some items.
Yea, sometimes I wish we had some kind of subscription choice when you setup your phone. Like being able to choose to get updates from the carrier or the manufacture.
LogisticsXLS said:
Yea they can, but updating the apps itself might not be the only reason why they get to hug the update before the end-user. They could be tweaking the update before putting it OTA. Also not to forget they could also be responsible for the radio updates.
Either way, they get it before us so they can add, tweak or remove some items.
Yea, sometimes I wish we had some kind of subscription choice when you setup your phone. Like being able to choose to get updates from the carrier or the manufacture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd think that the best solution would be to have each and every phone by default on AOSP Android. No modifications, no preinstalled apps, no nothing.
Then, manufacturers, carriers, whatever could let the user choose, by a setup screen that would boot the first time with the phone, what optional components they want (apps from the carriers, UI's from the manufacturers, etc) so that if I'm a Sensehead, I can have the full HTC experience if I buy an HTC phone.
But if I would prefer not seeing the piece of poo-poo that is TouchWiz, but do love the big thug of a phone that is, say, the Galaxy Note, I could go for AOSP.
Heck, sweet dreams. But I have an assumption that the carriers know the bundled apps are c-r-a-p and that any sane person would better rot in hell than use those excuses for apps.
That's my opinion, though.
ByThe carriers "own" the phones they order from the manufacturer. Yes it is absurd. They have full control, and they decide how it is locked down, what bloatware will steal your battery, and what os you are allowed to run on YOUR device.
You think you are getting "xyz manufacturer, but really you are getting a "carrier" phone unless you buy an unbranded phone and pay full retail(even though you pay full retail ultimately because you are under contract and pay every month regardless)
Yes it is a joke.
And on top of it after say "verizon" puts their hands all over a working android os, they ruin it.
This is why xda has become so big. People obviously want fast, unbloated, up to date, and bug fixed roms. When will the carriers wake up.
AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME:
WE DON'T WANT THE BLOCKBUSTER APP! IF WE WANT IT WE CAN INSTALL IT! EVERY BS PREINSTALLED APP THAT WE CAN'T UNINSTALL IS WASTING ELECTRICITY, THEY EAT UP BATTERY RESULTING IN HAVING TO CHARGE YOUR PHONE MORE OFTEN! GO GREEN, DUMP THE BLOATWARE ALREADY!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
c5satellite2 said:
ByThe carriers "own" the phones they order from the manufacturer. Yes it is absurd. They have full control, and they decide how it is locked down, what bloatware will steal your battery, and what os you are allowed to run on YOUR device.
You think you are getting "xyz manufacturer, but really you are getting a "carrier" phone unless you buy an unbranded phone and pay full retail(even though you pay full retail ultimately because you are under contract and pay every month regardless)
Yes it is a joke.
And on top of it after say "verizon" puts their hands all over a working android os, they ruin it.
This is why xda has become so big. People obviously want fast, unbloated, up to date, and bug fixed roms. When will the carriers wake up.
AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME:
WE DON'T WANT THE BLOCKBUSTER APP! IF WE WANT IT WE CAN INSTALL IT! EVERY BS PREINSTALLED APP THAT WE CAN'T UNINSTALL IS WASTING ELECTRICITY, THEY EAT UP BATTERY RESULTING IN HAVING TO CHARGE YOUR PHONE MORE OFTEN! GO GREEN, DUMP THE BLOATWARE ALREADY!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Loved the rage quit. :-D You are right on many points. I wonder - if carriers *do* know that no one uses their crappy apps, why do they shove them on our throats?
bogdan5844 said:
Loved the rage quit. :-D You are right on many points. I wonder - if carriers *do* know that no one uses their crappy apps, why do they shove them on our throats?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that many users (obviously ones who don't get on here) DO use those apps, and at the end of the day, it makes a lot of money for the carriers. It's all a money game. If all phones came AOSP, then the carriers would actually have to compete on the android market. They can't do that very well, so they require the manufacturers to let them have at the ROM before it gets into our hands.
The bloatware really ruins the Android experience. For example, look at Apple. They have a complete lockdown with regards to what extra bloatware goes onto their devices, last I checked. This leaves a great lasting impression on the consumers that end up buying Apple devices. The same consistent quality experience (of course, arguable) regardless of what carrier you use. And that's how it should be, because no one is looking specifically for a carrier experience for anything. Bloatware on Android really leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I imagine that's one of the reasons why the Nexus branding from Google exists -- to be separate from all the scummy carrier practices. And even that hasn't worked out so well, if the Verizon Galaxy Nexus is any indicator.
shurane said:
The bloatware really ruins the Android experience. For example, look at Apple. They have a complete lockdown with regards to what extra bloatware goes onto their devices, last I checked. This leaves a great lasting impression on the consumers that end up buying Apple devices. The same consistent quality experience (of course, arguable) regardless of what carrier you use. And that's how it should be, because no one is looking specifically for a carrier experience for anything. Bloatware on Android really leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I imagine that's one of the reasons why the Nexus branding from Google exists -- to be separate from all the scummy carrier practices. And even that hasn't worked out so well, if the Verizon Galaxy Nexus is any indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent point! Apple played the game really smart, they built up their brand first, so that people wanted the iPhone simply because it's Apple. Then with that popularity, they told the cell phone companies "If you want this phone, WE set the terms, not you". If any android phone maker said that, the carrier would laugh in their face, and that brand of phone would be gone the next day. Android is open source, so we suffer for the same reason that we love Android, anyone can change it. Apple won't give their clients that freedom, so despite their "bloat-free-ness", their product doesn't appeal so much to us.
Ok, I can see why carriers f**k the hell out of Android by preloading it with apps and stuff.
But what about Windows Phone? Wasn't Microsoft touting a „best of both worlds” experience, in that we would have the hardware choice of Android, and the unified experience of iOS?
Whatever happened to that?
This is what i think the real and biggest problem with android is, the battle is not with apple, their os or their phone. The actual problem is this-
"Google has done an extremely awesome job with jelly bean, the 'project butter' has really changed the Android experience, experience is fast and ultra responsive, devices dont lag when u turn them on or when u wake them from sleep. Google Now is pretty instant and gives some delightfully satisfying answers which the software is all about, offline voice typing is also pretty accurate, fast and an actual step forward with voice typing, the animations are wonderful, the lockscreen is simple and easy to use and its pretty fast, and what to say about notifications they are just a treat to use.
But all of what google has done is waste, total waste.
Cause OEMs wont be able give JB to their devices. Why? Because they will be busy to make stock JB look ugly, they will be busy to just change the way the UI looks so that their device can look be different no matter if its uglier than stock, they will be busy to add stupid features like 'direct call' when the call button is just their above the messages(I MEAN ITS JUST ONE FREAKING TAP ON THE CALL BUTTON AS ITS JUST RIGHT THEIR, U R LOOKING AT THE SCREEN ANYWAY SO U CAN JUST PRESS THAT FREAKING BUTTON TO CALL THAT PERSON), features like 'Tap to Top' (CAN'T U JUST FLICK UR FINGER ON THE SCREEN TO SCROLL BACK TO TOP, IT TURNS OUT THAT U CAN BUT OEMs HAVE TO ADD THESE FANCY FEATURES TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT THEY CAN DO FANCY 'CODING'), they have to add fancy and weird lockscreen. I know some features are important to add for ur company like various camera settings that google don't add cause they simply dont feel the need of those settings, BUT WHY THE HELL OEMs HAVE TO ADD THEIR FREAKING CUSTOM UGLY SKINS AND USELESS FEATURES.
I think google should do something to stop this madness, i see tons of bulls*** on internet just to compare the iphone and android. Most of the comments is people saying that they have older version of android on their device and 'not the one shown in the video' but on iphone they have latest software that is even in 'iphone4s' so they still think iphones are better. It ALL ABOUT UPDATES, GOOGLE WORK REALLY HARD ON ANDROID AND THE RESULT IS THAT MAJORITY OF ANDROID DEVICES ARE STILL ON '2.3.3.
Its pretty dissapointing to see how idiotic OEMs behave about updates, skins and fancy features. I hope the google PDK help OEMs to give faster update.
Some comapnies are still struggling to push ICS to their old devices and JB is out, they are busy in working on their new devices and some few people from their team work on OS updates to old devices, and the process is so slow because they are busy in adding ****ty skins and features.
P.S. Other OEMs should learn from HUAWEI, they also wanted to add some features that they feel are useful to their ICS phones, but they didnt ****ed the UI, they have their file manager, their cloud services, some additional camera app features in their ICS phones but they dont **** the UI."
This is what i think, i was pretty angry about OEMs and updates so i shared all my thoughts on a g+ post and this quote is the same g+ post.
Here is my g+ profile- https://plus.google.com/117638526643371847672/posts
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
You are absolutely right. Maybe not every OEM's ROM is bad, but they shouldn't try to make things better because it takes a lot of time and usually makes the system look ugly. That makes Android different on almost every manufacturer's device...
Sent from my E15i using XDA Premium App
One thing that I have decided that I am just going to buy devices that come under Google's NEXUS program. That way even if I may get not the latest and greatest hardware, I am still assured that I will get updates for at least 2-3 years and instant updates is what we are talking about.
Feel You
Hahahahahha
Anger is good
you were right about every single word
OEMs ruin the Android
trying to make it better
while the only thing happening is Android getting S*** taste instead of vanilla taste
well
on my side
i would prefer if the Stock android was available to all phones beside the OEMs one
in that way we have a choice
also
the Android pure Rom is much better than any other
i came to that after a lot of flashing
---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------
yogi2010 said:
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
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Slider +1:victory:
Haha, I also was getting myself worked up the other day thinking about carriers: I'm sure they also have a lot to do with how long updates take to come out. And, they get you on a 2-year contract, and then you're lucky if they support the device with updates for even 1 year!
I'm hoping PDK begins to lock down a bit of what they can do. Also, Carriers are a huge problem too. They don't want you to get updates.
Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk 2
You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
zelendel said:
You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
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I understand what u mean, i have also mentioned in op that many OEMs feel the need of some features that stock android doesnt have and they can add and they should obviously add them but amount of these features are really low, most of the features we see are just fancy features that show that they can also 'code'.
I know a bit about android ICS (stock) as i make themes for theme engine and i made roms earlier. Its divided into two parts or two UIs, one is the dark part or the dominating part that we see across ICS, the grey backgrounds with blue text, other is the light UI, that is the white backgrounds with blue and black text. I am also not a big fan of they grey part of the UI but the white part is just wonderful. Also no OEMs' ui i have seen is better than stock ICS UI so they are clearly making it worse.
I hope google go full on with their white/light UI in next version of android.
Also i agree to the fact that many required features that a consumer wants these days with software these days are lacking in stock android like some settings, options and features in camera app, that actually all consumers these day want. I have seen many nokia users who still buy nokia phones cause they have these small features to mess with in camera app. There are many things that android team have not thought of added in stock android, and i think the main reason for that is the fear of people declaring their OS as 'complicated' and non-user friendly.
What worse it can get. Now Gnexus may get banned.
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
Good point.
spunker88 said:
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
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But still, Google is doing so that OEMs are ready to push updates along with Google. If Google is gonna give them new versions earlier we can assume they will give 1-2 months earlier and they will still be working on it so they will also give new source code later maybe 10-20 days earlier. So OEMs like Samsung or HTC who take 5-7 months for an update will still not be able to catch up with Google's announcements and updates.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
I agree and disagree.. I never used stock roms until i purchased the droid razr. I know blur makes it look better and also realize that motorola has a **** ton of bloatware that i have to freeze but i've been happy with gingerbread and now the ics stock roms. I do however think that needs to include an option to root the device on the configuration when you first setup the device. I think it shouldn't have locked bootloaders or things like that because it is linux underneath the nice ui and you should be able to mod it the way you like without having to hack everything. Long story short, most stock roms do look like crap and are bloated but some do a good job.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
Another thing I forgot about is carriers, they need to get their hands out of the software. My broadband ISP doesn't care what updates or OS I am running, they just provide me internet.
Ideally we would get all software upgrades from Google sort of like Windows, but I'm not sure if this is possible with Android. At least just let us update direct from the OEM, carriers shouldn't have to approve updates.
Guys support me and others who are with me and retweet #OmlyNexus and #****AndroidOEMs .
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
ingenious247 said:
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
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Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
bhu1 said:
Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
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I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
ingenious247 said:
I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
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I don't think a die hard fan of a flagship phone from Samsung or HTC is gonna buy the new flagship phone if the company changes the OS. I know people care about hardware but that doesn't mean they go totally mad about it, not looking the software at all. Btw, play store access is only for Google/android phones.
Also, nobody bought Gs3 cause it just had a quad core or it had a 8mp camera. If Samsung had bada or maybe android 2.1 on it then believe me it would have been samsung's worst selling phone.
Edit: Will u buy a new i7 3rd Gen laptop if it had windows 2000 and a restriction that u can't change it??? For same price that u buy a normal i7 laptop or even higher.